Newbie Question, All-Bison Team

[CrimsonTider1]

For the sake of the education of this newbie, if you had to pick the All-Bison Team from the last 10 years, who would be the starting line-up?

[4mcruenomore]

The last 10 years? Tough question, lots of talent.

[CrimsonTider1]

The last 10 years? Tough question, lots of talent.

just start with quarterback. who was the best of the last 10 years. Then who was the best running back, and keep going from there.

[HandoEX]

QB...Steve Walker
RB...Lamar Gordon
TE...Jeremiah Wurzbacher
WR...Travis White
WR...Kole Heckendorf
OL...Nate Safe
OL...Keith Buchman
OL...Paul Cornick
OL...Michael Arndt
OL...Pete Campion
FB...Andrew Grothman
FAN...HandoEX

Just the names that came to mind.

[westnodak93bison]

FB is Tyler Jangula imho

[SamsRams]

For the sake of the education of this newbie, if you had to pick the All-Bison Team from the last 10 years, who would be the starting line-up?

Nobody from alabama......nuff said

[reformedUNDfan]

i think we can all agree that the starting corner would be bobby babich

[X-Factor]

QB...Brock Jensen
RB...Lamar Gordon
TE...Jeremiah Wurzbacher
WR...Warren Holloway
WR...Kole Heckendorf
OL...Nate Safe
OL...Keith Buchman
OL...Paul Cornick
OL...Michael Arndt
OL...Pete Campion
FB...Andrew Grothman


Just the names that came to mind.

Fixed a few

[Bison06]

QB-Steve Walker
RB-Would be Lamar, but he played longer than 10 years ago now. I say it's Kyle Steffes
WR-Travis White
WR-Kole Heckendorf
TE-Jeremiah Wurzbacher
FB-Tyler Jangula
OL-Paul Cornick
OL-Nate Safe
OL-Chuck Klabo
OL-Rob Hunt
OL-Austin Richard

Pretty tough to narrow down the offensive line to just 5 guys, we have had some amazing players there.

DT-Matthew Gratzek
DT-Justin Frick
DE-Coulter Boyer
DE-Leif Murphy
C-Matt Gorman
C-Marcus Williams
S-Craig Dahl
S-Nick Schommer
LB-Joe Mays
LB-Ramon Humber
LB-Mike Maresh

I might be biased on the linebackers because I played with them, but I feel like I can make the argument for all three of those guys.

[Bison06]

i think we can all agree that the starting corner would be bobby babich

I think we can all agree that he was a better player than you.

[Twentysix]

Maresh better than chad willson? No way.

[Bison06]

Maresh better than chad willson? No way.

Would Chad Willson have stood out like he did playing next to Joe Mays?

[Twentysix]

Would Chad Willson have stood out like he did playing next to Joe Mays?

That is such a weird question.

Would aristotle have been as world renown had he been born in 1980? Instead of BC.

Im not theorycrafting and Chad Willson has a NC ring.

[JT64]

That is such a weird question.

Would aristotle have been as world renown had he been born in 1980? Instead of BC.

Im not theorycrafting and Chad Willson has a NC ring.

were would aristotle be with out sacrates and plato

[Twentysix]

were would aristotle be with out sacrates and plato

That is infact the question. To what extent is everyone a victim of circumstance.

[Bison06]

That is such a weird question.

Would aristotle have been as world renown had he been born in 1980? Instead of BC.

Im not theorycrafting and Chad Willson has a NC ring.

Haha, That is quite honestly the weirdest response to a legitimate question I have ever seen on Bisonville.

Also, by that logic, why don't we just list every starter on the '11 team as the best player at their position in the last 10 years. I mean they all have rings right, they must be the best players.

[Twentysix]

Haha, That is quite honestly the weirdest response to a legitimate question I have ever seen on Bisonville.

Also, by that logic, why don't we just list every starter on the '11 team as the best player at their position in the last 10 years. I mean they all have rings right, they must be the best players.

That is a good point, 90% of your list includes a certain team. ;) I'm glad you pointed it out so I didn't have to.

[Bison06]

That is a good point, 90% of your list includes a certain team. ;) I'm glad you pointed it out so I didn't have to.

90% of my list played on back to back 10-1 seasons and would have had a good shot at a national title if they were eligible. I didn't just pick them because I know them.

If you want to challenge my list and put someone else in feel free, I just can't think of any other players that should be put above most of those guys.

[Twentysix]

90% of my list played on back to back 10-1 seasons and would have had a good shot at a national title if they were eligible. I didn't just pick them because I know them.

If you want to challenge my list and put someone else in feel free, I just can't think of any other players that should be put above most of those guys.

That is very true. Do you feel they played equal competition?

Would the 07 team have been able to hold a Georgia southern squad that put up 300 yards on the 2011 alabama squad to 7 points?

Every single player was in different scenario's and had different opportunities. A list like this is impossible to truely do imo.

[Bison06]

That is very true. Do you feel they played equal competition?

Would the 07 team have been able to hold a Georgia southern squad that put up 300 yards on the 2011 alabama squad to 7 points?

Every single player was in different scenario's and had different opportunities. A list like this is impossible to truely do imo.

True, it comes down to a matter of opinion for sure when making a list like this. In regards to the bolded part, it is my opinion that yes the 07 team could have had a similar performance against GSU. My reasoning for saying that is they were very similar defenses. Great D-lines, fast linebackers, and a great tackling safety to make all the plays Colten made.

[X-Factor]

QB-Steve Walker
RB-Would be Lamar, but he played longer than 10 years ago now. I say it's Kyle Steffes
WR-Travis White
WR-Kole Heckendorf
TE-Jeremiah Wurzbacher
FB-Tyler Jangula
OL-Paul Cornick
OL-Nate Safe
OL-Chuck Klabo
OL-Rob Hunt
OL-Austin Richard

Pretty tough to narrow down the offensive line to just 5 guys, we have had some amazing players there.

DT-Matthew Gratzek
DT-Justin Frick
DE-Coulter Boyer
DE-Leif Murphy
C-Matt Gorman
C-Marcus Williams
S-Craig Dahl
S-Nick Schommer
LB-Joe Mays
LB-Ramon Humber
LB-Mike Maresh

I might be biased on the linebackers because I played with them, but I feel like I can make the argument for all three of those guys.

I think you would have to include 1 or 2 more defensive players from this past season. That defense was more dominant than anything during the Joe Mays/Humber/Maresh era, although 2006 defense was 2nd best in the past 10 years. I would put Heagle in place of Schommer and possibly Chad Wilson in place of Maresh.

[stevdock]

QB-Steve Walker
RB-Would be Lamar, but he played longer than 10 years ago now. I say it's Kyle Steffes
WR-Travis White
WR-Kole Heckendorf
TE-Jeremiah Wurzbacher
FB-Tyler Jangula
OL-Paul Cornick
OL-Nate Safe
OL-Chuck Klabo
OL-Rob Hunt
OL-Austin Richard

Pretty tough to narrow down the offensive line to just 5 guys, we have had some amazing players there.

DT-Matthew Gratzek
DT-Justin Frick
DE-Coulter Boyer
DE-Leif Murphy
C-Matt Gorman
C-Marcus Williams
S-Craig Dahl
S-Nick Schommer
LB-Joe Mays
LB-Ramon Humber
LB-Mike Maresh

I might be biased on the linebackers because I played with them, but I feel like I can make the argument for all three of those guys.

That sounds like a pretty solid list right there. Steffes gets the nod over DJ since he was the starter for 4 years. #2 WR and #2 CB in my opinion may be the hardest to pick as I can't think of a stand out at either position other than Williams and Heck.

Not much of an argument with Mays and Humber being on there. Although Humber without Mays really struggled his senior year. Maresh/Willson is a toss up in my opinion. Could make a strong case for either one.

[HerdBot]

That is very true. Do you feel they played equal competition?

Would the 07 team have been able to hold a Georgia southern squad that put up 300 yards on the 2011 alabama squad to 7 points?

Every single player was in different scenario's and had different opportunities. A list like this is impossible to truely do imo.

The 07 team was more known for offense while the 11 team was more known for defense. (Although both were solid on both sides) The Valley is a better conference but the 07 team kicked butt against good competition (ie Central Michigan and Minnesota and played a much tougher non conference schedule
.. but choked at South Dakota State. A Championship team wins that game although that was a pretty good SDSU team. I think the 07 team would have competed for a Championship but they lacked the depth to win it all. Also the corners were way too short to compete against the tall receivers If you remember the Sam Houston game that we allowed almost 50 points .. all the playoff teams had 6-4 receivers

The 07 team was known for comebacks but its better to never be behind. I think the 11 team was rarely behind to anyone all year.

[stevdock]

The 07 team was more known for offense while the 11 team was more known for defense. (Although both were solid on both sides) The Valley is a better conference but the 07 team kicked butt against good competition (ie Central Michigan and Minnesota and played a much tougher non conference schedule
.. but choked at South Dakota State. A Championship team wins that game although that was a pretty good SDSU team. I think the 07 team would have competed for a Championship but they lacked the depth to win it all. Also the corners were way too short to compete against the tall receivers If you remember the Sam Houston game... all the playoff teams had 6-4 receivers

By saying that you are not giving any credit to SDSU. By that point in the season that team was a former shell of itself as it was very banged up and my thought was that alot of players were even trying to hide injuries. SDSU absolutely beat us up on both sides of the line that day. That team would not have made a deep run in my opinion because of the injury situation.

[stevdock]

I think you would have to include 1 or 2 more defensive players from this past season. That defense was more dominant than anything during the Joe Mays/Humber/Maresh era, although 2006 defense was 2nd best in the past 10 years. I would put Heagle in place of Schommer and possibly Chad Wilson in place of Maresh.

It will be interesting to see where the Sophomore class stands by the time they are done. I think quite a few of them have a chance to get on a list like this in a few years. Remember Heagle has only started in about 10-12 games. Even though he's been great so far, he needs to do it for a longer period of time first.

[HerdBot]

By saying that you are not giving any credit to SDSU. By that point in the season that team was a former shell of itself as it was very banged up and my thought was that alot of players were even trying to hide injuries. SDSU absolutely beat us up on both sides of the line that day. That team would not have made a deep run in my opinion because of the injury situation.

Dude I said one sentence later that they were a really good SDSU team. Great teams win that game and great teams have depth to overcome it. Although if i remember correctly they needed 2 special teams TDs to win but thats more of an indication of bad special teams, which is a component of a great team

[Bison06]

I think you would have to include 1 or 2 more defensive players from this past season. That defense was more dominant than anything during the Joe Mays/Humber/Maresh era, although 2006 defense was 2nd best in the past 10 years. I would put Heagle in place of Schommer and possibly Chad Wilson in place of Maresh.

In talking about adding a few more players from this year's defense to the mix, I think the jury is still out. Chad Willson is a stud, but he and Maresh are almost exactly the same player. Toss up between those two.

Heagle over Schommer, eh.

Not yet, we may be saying something different in a year or two, but Schommer was very underrated. He was the biggest ball hawk of a safety we have ever had IMO.

One person that I think will be on this list by the end of his career is Leevon Perry, I have been very impressed with him.

[Bison06]

Dude I said one sentence later that they were a really good SDSU team. Great teams win that game and great teams have depth to overcome it. Although if i remember correctly they needed 2 special teams TDs to win but thats more of an indication of bad special teams, which is a component of a great team

Great teams shouldn't lose to YSU at home either, but sometimes you don't play your best game.

[BisonNation11]

If they would have played Tyler Roehl at RB for his entire career instead of trying to bulk him up and make him a FB in his first two years, I think he could have easily been a great argument for top RB. The Bison in the last 10 years haven't had anybody that could take/give a hit with that kind of speed. Jangula definitely for FB. Chad Wilson has been underrated in my mind and deserves to be on the list. He's a smart player and does everything right. You have to leave Schommer in instead of Heagle, but when Heagle is done he will be on this list. Same thing with Jensen. Walker is the obvious pick, but I think we have a hidden gem with Jensen.

[HerdBot]

Great teams shouldn't lose to YSU at home either, but sometimes you don't play your best game.

2011 team played its best when it mattered, in the playoffs, and still got home field. Of course the 07 team couldn't make the playoffs so the conference championship game was essentially their biggest game and they lost.

I think the 07 starters were phenomenal. Its the depth that they lacked

[HerdBot]

If they would have played Tyler Roehl at RB for his entire career instead of trying to bulk him up and make him a FB in his first two years, I think he could have easily been a great argument for top RB. The Bison in the last 10 years haven't had anybody that could take/give a hit with that kind of speed. Jangula definitely for FB. Chad Wilson has been underrated in my mind and deserves to be on the list. He's a smart player and does everything right. You have to leave Schommer in instead of Heagle, but when Heagle is don he will be on this list. Same thing with Jensen. Walker is the obvious pick, but I think we have a hidden gem with Jensen.

Roehl is on my list but only when he has a great back with a contrasting style to go with him. Had Roehl played 2 more years at running back, he would probably have a tough time getting out of bed! Nobody will ever compare to Roehl. Pushing 240. Put up combine numbers better than most linebackers. Was electronically timed at 4.49. Quick feet. Painful to tackle. Guys like that really start to destroy the will of the defense after 3 quarters.

[walknroehl]

Roehl is on my list but only when he has a great back with a contrasting style to go with him. Had Roehl played 2 more years at running back, he would probably have a tough time getting out of bed! Nobody will ever compare to Roehl. Pushing 240. Put up combine numbers better than most linebackers. Was electronically timed at 4.49. Quick feet. Painful to tackle. Guys like that really start to destroy the will of the defense after 3 quarters.

Yes. Get familiar!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebkIpa1DCfc

You know my picks from my handle

[bison_by_blood]

Punter - Mike Dragosavich
Kicker - Shawn Bibeau (i hope i'm wrong on this one)
PR/KR - Shamen Washington
LS - Allan Woodstrom

Honorable mention to Voigtlander for switching position on short notice and the fake that changed all the momentum in Frisco. Special teams quietly great all year and a big reason for the NC. Gotta give'em some love.

[HerdBot]

Punter - Mike Dragosavich
Kicker - Shawn Bibeau (i hope i'm wrong on this one)
PR/KR - Shamen Washington
LS - Allan Woodstrom

Honorable mention to Voigtlander for switching position on short notice and the fake that changed all the momentum in Frisco. Special teams quietly great all year and a big reason for the NC. Gotta give'em some love.

Jastram no question
Shamen was average his last 2 years but he was amazing when he started

[CaBisonFan]

2011 team played its best when it mattered, in the playoffs, and still got home field. Of course the 07 team couldn't make the playoffs so the conference championship game was essentially their biggest game and they lost.

I think the 07 starters were phenomenal. Its the depth that they lacked

Not arguing...just sayin...we went to SDSU that year without any healthy running backs...Paschall was out...Roehl was hurt...so SDSU was able to pin back their ears on D. Roehl tried to play and then got his bell rung in a big way. A few people tried to do too much...fumbles...interceptions...etc. Nate Safe had about .5 wheels left.

The team that beat Minnesota that year was not the same team that went to Brookings. Still...we gave them a few early Christmas presents, and should have won anyway. SDSU played to their potential. And as to your point...we were not as deep as this year's team.

With just a little more depth, the 07 team would have finished #1...that is...if the voters would have allowed it.

[EndZoneQB]

Not arguing...just sayin...we went to SDSU that year without any healthy running backs...Paschall was out...Roehl was hurt...so SDSU was able to pin back their ears on D. Roehl tried to play and then got his bell rung in a big way. A few people tried to do too much...fumbles...interceptions...etc. Nate Safe had about .5 wheels left.

The team that beat Minnesota that year was not the same team that went to Brookings. Still...we gave them a few early Christmas presents, and should have won anyway. SDSU played to their potential. And as to your point...we were not as deep as this year's team.

With just a little more depth, the 07 team would have finished #1...that is...if the voters would have allowed it.

It would have been interesting to see what played out if we truly did go undefeated. With us losing that SDSU game, we were instantly a non-story.

[4mcruenomore]

Can I pick Chris Carlson for a QB, or is that too long ago.

[EndZoneQB]

Can I pick Chris Carlson for a QB, or is that too long ago.

Well, I think the first requirement would to be better than your teammates at least...low blow?

[Twentysix]

Well, I think the first requirement would to be better than your teammates at least...low blow?

Kicker jastram
Kr sigers he may not have done it long but he was good.

[HerdBot]

Not arguing...just sayin...we went to SDSU that year without any healthy running backs...Paschall was out...Roehl was hurt...so SDSU was able to pin back their ears on D. Roehl tried to play and then got his bell rung in a big way. A few people tried to do too much...fumbles...interceptions...etc. Nate Safe had about .5 wheels left.

The team that beat Minnesota that year was not the same team that went to Brookings. Still...we gave them a few early Christmas presents, and should have won anyway. SDSU played to their potential. And as to your point...we were not as deep as this year's team.

With just a little more depth, the 07 team would have finished #1...that is...if the voters would have allowed it.

True on depth. The depth on that team was more D2 quality although the starters were absolutely D1

[4mcruenomore]

Well, I think the first requirement would to be better than your teammates at least...low blow?

That was kind of mean. He is my hero though!

[heffray]

Not arguing...just sayin...we went to SDSU that year without any healthy running backs...Paschall was out...Roehl was hurt...so SDSU was able to pin back their ears on D. Roehl tried to play and then got his bell rung in a big way. A few people tried to do too much...fumbles...interceptions...etc. Nate Safe had about .5 wheels left.

The team that beat Minnesota that year was not the same team that went to Brookings. Still...we gave them a few early Christmas presents, and should have won anyway. SDSU played to their potential. And as to your point...we were not as deep as this year's team.

With just a little more depth, the 07 team would have finished #1...that is...if the voters would have allowed it.

The Starters of the 2 teams notwithstanding, 11' team > 07' team. I don't think anyone can argue against that simply because of the depth factor. But that's not really the question this thread is asking, is it...?

[IzzyFlexion]

FB is Tyler Jangula imho


Yes. Jangula fo sho!

Dig through the ditches,
And burn through the witches
I slam in the back of my
Jan gula

http://musicalatinaymas.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/200px-Rob_Zombie_Dragula.jpg

[56BISON73]

Not arguing...just sayin...we went to SDSU that year without any healthy running backs...Paschall was out...Roehl was hurt...so SDSU was able to pin back their ears on D. Roehl tried to play and then got his bell rung in a big way. A few people tried to do too much...fumbles...interceptions...etc. Nate Safe had about .5 wheels left.

The team that beat Minnesota that year was not the same team that went to Brookings. Still...we gave them a few early Christmas presents, and should have won anyway. SDSU played to their potential. And as to your point...we were not as deep as this year's team.

With just a little more depth, the 07 team would have finished #1...that is...if the voters would have allowed it.

We lost that game in the trenches. We were lucky to still have a shot at the end of the game.

[TransAmBison]

We lost that game in the trenches. We were lucky to still have a shot at the end of the game.
I don't think that is fair to the team. That game was hard fought on both sides. SDSU took calculated risks and it paid off for them. Roehl was hurt and fumbled...but Roehl was also prone to fumbling. The mental toughness did appear to be lacking by the end of the season, at least imo.

[56BISON73]

I don't think that is fair to the team. That game was hard fought on both sides. SDSU took calculated risks and it paid off for them. Roehl was hurt and fumbled...but Roehl was also prone to fumbling. The mental toughness did appear to be lacking by the end of the season, at least imo.

Yes they played hard nobody is saying they didnt. BUT We were out played it was as simple as that. We were never in control of the game. I remember watching thinking after the start of the game--if we keep play like this---we lose
Wasnt the last play a hail mary that was intercepted? Its not like they drove the field and were stopped at the 1 when time ran out. If that would have been the scenario then yes my comment would have been unfair. Unfortunately thats not the way it played out. We just didnt have it that day.

[CAS4127]

Yes they played hard nobody is saying they didnt. BUT We were out played it was as simple as that. We were never in control of the game. I remember watching thinking after the start of the game--if we keep play like this---we lose
Wasnt the last play a hail mary that was intercepted? Its not like they drove the field and were stopped at the 1 when time ran out. If that would have been the scenario then yes my comment would have been unfair. Unfortunately thats not the way it played out. We just didnt have it that day.

:facepalm: PL, have you not learned by now that NDSU football games for Tranny are nothing more than a social event used by him for attention???!! I mean, any football analytical abilities he has are from posts he reads here and then parrots later in conversation or a post here several days later (with the hopes no one will remember someone else had already stated the same thing)!! Pathetic, I know-->but whatcha gonna do!!!!:facepalm2:

[TransAmBison]

Yes they played hard nobody is saying they didnt. BUT We were out played it was as simple as that. We were never in control of the game. I remember watching thinking after the start of the game--if we keep play like this---we lose
Wasnt the last play a hail mary that was intercepted? Its not like they drove the field and were stopped at the 1 when time ran out. If that would have been the scenario then yes my comment would have been unfair. Unfortunately thats not the way it played out. We just didnt have it that day.What I was disagreeing with was the comment that we were lucky to be in it at the end. We were very evenly matched. They had the dangerous punt return that was huge...credit to them. They also had the 4th down play in the 4th that was huge...credit to them. We were behind by enough and came back to take a lead but then gave it right back. I'm just saying it was a good game, nothing like the loss to UNI two years back. In that one we had a shot to win at the end, but not really.

[Bison06]

What I was disagreeing with was the comment that we were lucky to be in it at the end. We were very evenly matched. They had the dangerous punt return that was huge...credit to them. They also had the 4th down play in the 4th that was huge...credit to them. We were behind by enough and came back to take a lead but then gave it right back. I'm just saying it was a good game, nothing like the loss to UNI two years back. In that one we had a shot to win at the end, but not really.

Agreed, also there were some really fluky type plays in that game. The punt return from the 2 yard line, Shamen's phantom fumble on the opening kickoff of the second half as examples. SDSU played really well, but it took our worst effort of the year for them to beat us and we still were driving to win the game at the end.

PL, it wasn't a hail mary, it was a 15-20 yard pass with a little under a minute left and we were in Jackrabbit territory at the time IIRC.

[56BISON73]

Agreed, also there were some really fluky type plays in that game. The punt return from the 2 yard line, Shamen's phantom fumble on the opening kickoff of the second half as examples. SDSU played really well, but it took our worst effort of the year for them to beat us and we still were driving to win the game at the end.

PL, it wasn't a hail mary, it was a 15-20 yard pass with a little under a minute left and we were in Jackrabbit territory at the time IIRC.

There will always be specific plays that fans can key on. That happens when you watch the ball. Being a former player you should know that you should watch how the game is being played. As in---whos winning the key match ups, whos winning the battle at the LOS, whos getting shut down and why, etc.

[Bison06]

There will always be specific plays that fans can key on. That happens when you watch the ball. Being a former player you should know that you should watch how the game is being played. As in---whos winning the key match ups, whos winning the battle at the LOS, whos getting shut down and why, etc.

I didn't mean to sound as if I was disagreeing with you. I agree that the better team won that day and they deserved to win. I was merely pointing out that we played our worst game of the year and some fluky plays happened and we still had a chance to win in the end.

[TransAmBison]

I didn't mean to sound as if I was disagreeing with you. I agree that the better team won that day and they deserved to win. I was merely pointing out that we played our worst game of the year and some fluky plays happened and we still had a chance to win in the end.Worst game of the year? I don't know, I think that would have been against Southern Utah, or maybe even Cal Poly.

[EndZoneQB]

Worst game of the year? I don't know, I think that would have been against Southern Utah, or maybe even Cal Poly.

I was going to suggest Cal-Poly as well. We did nothing until what, 7 minutes left in the 4th?

[Bison06]

Worst game of the year? I don't know, I think that would have been against Southern Utah, or maybe even Cal Poly.

SUU maybe, but Cal Poly? I can't agree with that.

How can you simultaneously have a game that is likely a top 50 most triumphant and memorable moments in NDSU football history and it be our worst game?

[TransAmBison]

SUU maybe, but Cal Poly? I can't agree with that.

How can you simultaneously have a game that is likely a top 50 most triumphant and memorable moments in NDSU football history and it be our worst game?Quite easy. We played like crap. Horrible. Awful. It took last minute heroics to win that game. I'm not proud of that game. We were not the better team that day...not even close.

[Bison06]

Quite easy. We played like crap. Horrible. Awful. It took last minute heroics to win that game. I'm not proud of that game. We were not the better team that day...not even close.

I have never understood the argument the better team didn't win. ON THAT DAY, we were the better team, that cannot be argued. The way this is measured is the score and we won, period.

You can argue the better team overall might have lost because you can be better than another team and lay an egg on any given day, but to say we weren't better than them THAT DAY is false. We won the game.

Either way, IMO we played worse and there were more lapses in judgement and lack of concentration in the SDSU game.

[TransAmBison]

I have never understood the argument the better team didn't win. ON THAT DAY, we were the better team, that cannot be argued. The way this is measured is the score and we won, period.

You can argue the better team overall might have lost because you can be better than another team and lay an egg on any given day, but to say we weren't better than them THAT DAY is false. We won the game.

.You basically contradicted yourself right there. Better team vs better team overall? Really? That's funny.

We will just have to disagree on which was worse.

[Bison06]

You basically contradicted yourself right there. Better team vs better team overall? Really? That's funny.

We will just have to disagree on which was worse.

Follow me if you can.

You can be the better team going into the game and lose to an inferior team, hence the concept of an upset.

In contrast you can never win a game and not be the better team ON THAT DAY. This is the world of sports and how we measure who is the better team on any given day, it's called the scoreboard. It is usually on either end of the football field and high above the field. When the clock says all zeros, whoever has more points is said to be the winner and the better team on that day.

[TransAmBison]

Follow me if you can.

You can be the better team going into the game and lose to an inferior team, hence the concept of an upset.

In contrast you can never win a game and not be the better team ON THAT DAY. This is the world of sports and how we measure who is the better team on any given day, it's called the scoreboard. It is usually on either end of the football field and high above the field. When the clock says all zeros, whoever has more points is said to be the winner and the better team on that day.http://www.wopp.biz/images/d0b10aa6baabb6b87a045b3c3d679fad.jpg

[Bison06]

http://www.wopp.biz/images/d0b10aa6baabb6b87a045b3c3d679fad.jpg

If it is hard for you to understand I can use smaller words if you like.

[TransAmBison]

If it is hard for you to understand I can use smaller words if you like.Like I said, we will have to disagree as I think you have no clue and you don't realize how awesome I am. :D j/k

IMO the better team doesn't always win...I don't give a rat's Answer Guy what anybody says. I remember when we played in a playoff game against NW Missouri St. We should have gotten a touchdown but there was an inadvertent whistle call. Changed the whole game. Fluke things happen sometimes. Just one example.

[Bison06]

Like I said, we will have to disagree as I think you have no clue and you don't realize how awesome I am. :D j/k

IMO the better team doesn't always win...I don't give a rat's Answer Guy what anybody says. I remember when we played in a playoff game against NW Missouri St. We should have gotten a touchdown but there was an inadvertent whistle call. Changed the whole game. Fluke things happen sometimes. Just one example.

Dude, we are saying the same thing in different ways. You say the better team doesn't always win, I agree. But the team that wins is ALWAYS the better team on that day, 100% of the time.

[TransAmBison]

Dude, we are saying the same thing in different ways. You say the better team doesn't always win, I agree. But the team that wins is ALWAYS the better team on that day, 100% of the time.What are we talking about again? We better get outa here before SD finds us. :hide::D

[Bison06]

What are we talking about again? We better get outa here before SD finds us. :hide::D

Haha, sounds good man. Is SD easily agitated when the topic flows off course?

[56BISON73]

Follow me if you can.

You can be the better team going into the game and lose to an inferior team, hence the concept of an upset.

In contrast you can never win a game and not be the better team ON THAT DAY. This is the world of sports and how we measure who is the better team on any given day, it's called the scoreboard. It is usually on either end of the football field and high above the field. When the clock says all zeros, whoever has more points is said to be the winner and the better team on that day.

May this is an issue of perspective? There are games where teams were outplayed(MN-NDSU 1st game) and still won. There are games where teams were statistically out played and won or you could look at it in reverse where a team out played there opponent but still lost. Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory as it may be.

[Bison06]

May this is an issue of perspective? There are games where teams were outplayed(MN-NDSU 1st game) and still won. There are games where teams were statistically out played and won or you could look at it in reverse where a team out played there opponent but still lost. Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory as it may be.

100% agree with all of that. But in all of the cases where a team was outplayed and still won, they were still the better team on that day because they had more points when the clock hit zero.

Gophers were better than us in '06 on that day because they won the game.

[TransAmBison]

100% agree with all of that. But in all of the cases where a team was outplayed and still won, they were still the better team on that day because they had more points when the clock hit zero.

Gophers were better than us in '06 on that day because they won the game.We will have to disagree...

[Bison06]

We will have to disagree...

That's just fine and I can live with that.

But, the problem with your argument is it is far too subjective. There is no objective measure other than the score to say which team was better on that day. When the game of football was thought up, they decided the game would be decided by a points system rather than a panel of judges deciding who played better that day.

So, by the rules of the game, the team with more points is always the better team on that day. I really don't see how that point can be contended, it is foundational to the game of football.

[TransAmBison]

That's just fine and I can live with that.

But, the problem with your argument is it is far too subjective. There is no objective measure other than the score to say which team was better on that day. When the game of football was thought up, they decided the game would be decided by a points system rather than a panel of judges deciding who played better that day.

So, by the rules of the game, the team with more points is always the better team on that day. I really don't see how that point can be contended, it is foundational to the game of football.If the score was all that mattered the rest of the stats wouldn't be of interest. There are plenty of games where the score does not reflect the game. Even look at the Giants vs San Fran this year in the playoffs. San Fran was the better team no question about it but it wasn't reflected in the score. I am not a fan of either so I feel I can be objective.

[Bison06]

If the score was all that mattered the rest of the stats wouldn't be of interest. There are plenty of games where the score does not reflect the game. Even look at the Giants vs San Fran this year in the playoffs. San Fran was the better team no question about it but it wasn't reflected in the score. I am not a fan of either so I feel I can be objective.

But, that is exactly my point. The points, ultimately, are all that matters when it comes to who wins the game. Which is the objective of the game of football, to win.

What your saying is like, if we were to play monopoly and you were really doing well, you bought up all the right property put up hotels and were kicking my ass. As the game progressed you keep landing on one of the 3 properties I have over and over again, seemingly against all odds. I somehow, rarely seem to land on your properties and go on to win the game with very little understanding of how the game of monopoly actually works.

Now who is the better monopoly player?

[TransAmBison]

But, that is exactly my point. The points, ultimately, are all that matters when it comes to who wins the game. Which is the objective of the game of football, to win.

What your saying is like, if we were to play monopoly and you were really doing well, you bought up all the right property put up hotels and were kicking my ass. As the game progressed you keep landing on one of the 3 properties I have over and over again, seemingly against all odds. I somehow, rarely seem to land on your properties and go on to win the game with very little understanding of how the game of monopoly actually works.

Now who is the better monopoly player?Lakesbison. Next question.

[Bison06]

Lakesbison. Next question.

Lakes has never played Monopoly in his life, he is unable to speak without using his outdoor voice due to his inability to not use capital letters.

Disagree if you like, but by the rules of the game of football the team with more points when the game is over wins the game and is deemed the better team. If you have an issue with the rules feel free to take it up with Walter Camp.

[TransAmBison]

Lakes has never played Monopoly in his life, he is unable to speak without using his outdoor voice due to his inability to not use capital letters.

Disagree if you like, but by the rules of the game of football the team with more points when the game is over wins the game and is deemed the better team. If you have an issue with the rules feel free to take it up with Walter Camp.Black and white is no way to look at things...

And concerning Lakes...he is so good he doesn't even need to play to win.

[Bison06]

Black and white is no way to look at things...

And concerning Lakes...he is so good he doesn't even need to play to win.

Haha, lakes has become a legend in his own time. What a man. \m/

[stevdock]

I get the whole objective/subjective argument, but did anyone really feel that in the first game against the Gophers that they were better than the Bison?? Also for the second game say that instead of running into Drago they block the punt and run it in and we lose 28-27, would you still say the Gophers were better??

Other than the scoreboard I don't know if anyone would really say that for either scenario.

[Bison06]

I get the whole objective/subjective argument, but did anyone really feel that in the first game against the Gophers that they were better than the Bison?? Also for the second game say that instead of running into Drago they block the punt and run it in and we lose 28-27, would you still say the Gophers were better??

Other than the scoreboard I don't know if anyone would really say that for either scenario.

By what measure were we better? We lost the game, that's all that will ever matter. I thought we didn't claim moral victories around here like they do up north?

[Twentysix]

But, that is exactly my point. The points, ultimately, are all that matters when it comes to who wins the game. Which is the objective of the game of football, to win.

What your saying is like, if we were to play monopoly and you were really doing well, you bought up all the right property put up hotels and were kicking my ass. As the game progressed you keep landing on one of the 3 properties I have over and over again, seemingly against all odds. I somehow, rarely seem to land on your properties and go on to win the game with very little understanding of how the game of monopoly actually works.

Now who is the better monopoly player?

Football isnt a RNG.

[Bison06]

Football isnt a RNG.

Can someone translate, I don't speak nerd.

[JT64]

Can someone translate, I don't speak nerd.Random Number Game just guessing