Saul on the hot seat??

[TheBisonator]

Is Saul's job in jeopardy after tonight?? Tell me what you think.

[tjbison]

Wasn't this discussed earlier in the year

[TheBisonator]

Wasn't this discussed earlier in the year

Yeah but it's a legitimate question now.

[Bisondan]

Is Saul's job in jeopardy after tonight?? Tell me what you think.

Should have been fired after the Dragons game

[Bisondan]

Wasn't this discussed earlier in the year

Yes I was laughed at for saying he should have been fired after MSUM.

[tjbison]

Honestly, I would say the women's coach is in a tougher spot than Saul but that's just me

[Bisondan]

Honestly, I would say the women's coach is in a tougher spot than Saul but that's just me

If people cared about women's basketball you would be correct.

[MNLonghorn10]

i dont follow ndsu hoops at all. what is his signature win since taking over? oakland?

[tjbison]

If people cared about women's basketball you would be correct.

True, but also I'll just bow out because I'm truly a football fan and basketball is secondary so I really haven't paid as much attention this year. I have been to games but have not really had the hype and that could because the team is up and down, or it's because my beloved FB team is back on track

[silkamilkamonico]

No and I don't think anything will happen this year regardless of what happens.

I will say this. Since the UND loss, I have completely lost any pride I had in this program.

Win the Summit tournament? This team will get blwon out in the first round.

The concerning thing, is this same NDSU team in December would beat this same team now by 25+.

That's coaching, or a lack of it.

[Bisondan]

i dont follow ndsu hoops at all. what is his signature win since taking over? oakland?

Concordia Moorhead back in November,

[TheBisonator]

No and I don't think anything will happen this year regardless of what happens.

I will say this. Since the UND loss, I have completely lost any pride I had in this program.

Win the Summit tournament? This team will get blwon out in the first round.

The concerning thing, is this same NDSU team in December would beat this same team now by 25+.

That's coaching, or a lack of it.

That really worries me that you think it's bad coaching, yet you don't think anything will happen after this year.

[silkamilkamonico]

That really worries me that you think it's bad coaching, yet you don't think anything will happen after this year.

His bad coaching stretch regarding play on the court has lasted a total month. That isn't anywhere close to be long enough to fire anyone in college basketball.

[silkamilkamonico]

That really worries me that you think it's bad coaching, yet you don't think anything will happen after this year.

Also, Bohl was all but written off last year before lucking into the playoffs where they shouldn't have been in the first place, and look where the program is now?

Time's can change quickly.

[tjbison]

Also, Bohl was all but written off last year before lucking into the playoffs where they shouldn't have been in the first place, and look where the program is now?

Time's can change quickly.

Damn straight, some of the biggest people on the fire Bohl bandwagon on here are now kissing his feet

[56BISON73]

Also, Bohl was all but written off last year before lucking into the playoffs where they shouldn't have been in the first place, and look where the program is now?

Time's can change quickly.

:omfg::omfg::omfg::omfg: Did I miss something last year?

[tjbison]

:omfg::omfg::omfg::omfg: Did I miss something last year?

PL, we all know what he meant

[TheBisonator]

:omfg::omfg::omfg::omfg: Did I miss something last year?

LOL yeah, 2011=Last year, 2010=2 years ago

[56BISON73]

Damn straight, some of the biggest people on the fire Bohl bandwagon on here are now kissing his feet

Yes there were a few who didnt believe in him but he wasnt in jeapordy of losing his job. Vigen is a whole different subject.:biggrin:

[silkamilkamonico]

:omfg::omfg::omfg::omfg: Did I miss something last year?

Yes, the last game of the season, when NDSU got shut out by arguably the worst team in the conference, in a win and we're in scenario.

That's like losing to SDSU in basketball by 20+ points.

[TheBisonator]

Tonight this was our:

1) Worst ever Summit League loss (in conference)
2) Worst loss to a mid-major since Jan. 3, 2005 when we lost at Manhattan.

[56BISON73]

Yes, the last game of the season, when NDSU got shut out by arguably the worst team in the conference, in a win and we're in scenario.

That's like losing to SDSU in basketball by 20+ points.

Mea cupla forgot about that one. You are correct. Both are-were very ugly.

[confused2012]

His bad coaching stretch regarding play on the court has lasted a total month. That isn't anywhere close to be long enough to fire anyone in college basketball.

i think he killed the teams confidence when he made the switch from the young guys they have played like sh#t since. They had best record saul had at that point and time and he felt like he needed to change? This team is better than what they look like seems to me saul and those weak assistance messed the whole team up! The coaches just be watching the game and not making any adjustment or anything,if your going to loose let those young guys get beat down and alot of experience and man they maybe wonderful!!!!!!!!!

[silkamilkamonico]

Mea cupla forgot about that one. You are correct. Both are-were very ugly.

I can only hope Saul can rebound like Bohl did, but they would require us making the summit tournament championship, qhcih I quite frankly don't think we have any chance at. I think this team has so much turmoil right now we will be 1 and done in our conference tournament.

[Bison"FANatic"]

his bad coaching stretch regarding play on the court has lasted a total month. That isn't anywhere close to be long enough to fire anyone in college basketball.


this^^^^^^^

[99Bison]

:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:

Where's the eyeroll smily.

[EmbdenBison]

No and I don't think anything will happen this year regardless of what happens.

I will say this. Since the UND loss, I have completely lost any pride I had in this program.

Win the Summit tournament? This team will get blwon out in the first round.

The concerning thing, is this same NDSU team in December would beat this same team now by 25+.

That's coaching, or a lack of it.

I agree with this. I said to some friends after that UND loss that to watch the slide and that is what has happened. What pissed me off in that game was that they did not seem to be very focused and the same could be said about the games since then. They appear to be completely lost out on the court at times.

[02Bison]

That's like losing to SDSU in basketball by 20+ points.

It wasn't that many years ago that this was almost a given each year....

[MNLonghorn10]

No and I don't think anything will happen this year regardless of what happens.

I will say this. Since the UND loss, I have completely lost any pride I had in this program.

Win the Summit tournament? This team will get blwon out in the first round.

The concerning thing, is this same NDSU team in December would beat this same team now by 25+.

That's coaching, or a lack of it.
excellent post.

[stevdock]

No and I don't think anything will happen this year regardless of what happens.

I will say this. Since the UND loss, I have completely lost any pride I had in this program.

Win the Summit tournament? This team will get blwon out in the first round.

The concerning thing, is this same NDSU team in December would beat this same team now by 25+.

That's coaching, or a lack of it.

Personally I don't think this team has gotten any better from the first game after the Fab 4 until now. In fact I think the program may have taken a few steps backwards. I think he can be a fabulous recruiter. He has the passion and charisma to do a great job with that, even though you could make a strong case that he hasn't landed that one program changing recruit yet. I just think he struggles with x's and o's and that hasn't changed from his first game until now. The interesting thing is though that I don't know if we would be able to get a coach better than him though.

[bisonmike2]

I haven't watched any basketball this year so my opinion means nothing. what I do know is we've lost to MSUM, we've lost to UND and now we've lost to SDSU twice, including tonights debacle that many here are calling our worst conference lost ever. I'm sick of hearing this team is young, give it a year or two. We've had more than enough time to restock the cupboards after our tourney appearance (made with Miles guys).

[TQ16]

This is clinically insane. The team is 3rd in the league, 16-10 and oh by they way WE START 4 SOPHOMORES AND A FRESHMAN!

It's blatantly obvious the team has struggled as of late, especially in what Bison fan's view as the most meaningful games (UND/SDSU/ORU etc), but seriously talking about canning Saul? Get real. I'll even admit tonight was the probably the worst loss of the year given the lopsided nature, but come on folks - back away from the ledge.

You've seen how good this team can be (under Saul's tutelage), now just have some patience. It's a long season and the Bison are an EXTREMELY young team without a ton of experience. Give it some time, but the Bison are in a good place right now.

[Strommer10]

This is clinically insane. The team is 3rd in the league, 16-10 and oh by they way WE START 4 SOPHOMORES AND A FRESHMAN! It's blatantly obvious the team has struggled as of late, especially in what Bison fan's view as the most meaningful games (UND/SDSU/ORU etc), but seriously talking about canning Saul? Get real. I'll even admit tonight was the probably the worst loss of the year given the lopsided nature, but come on folks - back away from the ledge.

You've seen how good this team can be (under Saul's tutelage), now just have some patience. It's a long season and the Bison are an EXTREMELY young team without a ton of experience. Give it some time, but the Bison are in a good place right now.
This says it right there... The team is YOUNG & we're still in 3rd regardless of how awful they have seemed lately. There will be ups and downs with this young nucleus. This was never "supposed" to be the year for the basketball team. I think the football team has blurred people's vision about the basketball team. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying losing is ok, but relax people.

[EndZoneQB]

I haven't watched any basketball this year so my opinion means nothing. what I do know is we've lost to MSUM, we've lost to UND and now we've lost to SDSU twice, including tonights debacle that many here are calling our worst conference lost ever. I'm sick of hearing this team is young, give it a year or two. We've had more than enough time to restock the cupboards after our tourney appearance (made with Miles guys).

(All of our signature wins were under Miles...) As for my opinion, I want to see how the tournament plays out. Who knows, then we re-evaluate. You can't make a decision now anyway.

[BisonTeacher]

I don't understand our offense. Theoretically, kids should be able to "play" basketball whether you run plays or not. Having said that...there needs to be some sort of flow. passing cutting. Setting GOOD picks to create open jumps shots, working the ball inside... which also creates outside jumpshots. How about a pick and roll even ? I know people are gonna hate me for this but I see mostly pass, and drive. Pass and drive. sure it creates points sometimes, but how many times do we drive into a double team to the side of the basket and then look desperately to pass it out of there. I just don't see what the focus/direction of the offense is. It almost looks like the players aren't sure sometimes. So is it the players, ability? Experience? Or is it coaching? IM not close enough to the situation to know...but in my mind...from what Im hearing about all the ability we have...well...that leaves experience or coaching.

[WYOBISONMAN]

If I were going to wager on performance at the Summit Tourney......I would bet we win one and done at best....I am not optomistic about a good showing. This team has too many stunning losses and no stunning wins.

[344Johnson]

Since I really, really like Saul, I'll give him until the end of next year. The lack of signiture wins has been annoying, the lack of any kind of success this year has been annoying, and honestly, watching the score throughout the game last night was just downright embarassing. Losing by 30? Wolters not having to play for half the second half? Have we beat a single team this year who might actually be better than us? Rather than getting excited about us being 3rd in the conference, I'm just going to come out and say that if we are in 3rd still, the Summit is dogshit this year for depth. We are not a threat right now. Definitely have a few things to fix in order to not get embarassed come tourney time.

[silkamilkamonico]

You've seen how good this team can be (under Saul's tutelage), now just have some patience. It's a long season and the Bison are an EXTREMELY young team without a ton of experience. Give it some time, but the Bison are in a good place right now.

This is an issue, IMHO. We saw how good this team can be like a month and a half ago. The problem is that team has completely disappeared and been replaced by a worse team with more glaring issues, and no real shown ability to find answers. This team has been almost completely lost since the turn of the new year.

This isn't an up and down season. This is a season that started on a high note, dropped significantly to a low note and has maintained that low note.

In the last 3 games, we have been completely blown out by the worst team in the Summit, and then suffered the worst loss of our D1 conference career to our rivals. This team is not good, and hasn't been for a while, and IMHO that in concerning.

[Bison bison]

If I were going to wager on performance at the Summit Tourney......I would bet we win one and done at best....I am not optomistic about a good showing. This team has too many stunning losses and no stunning wins.

What would be worse then that? 50 point mercy rule?

[BisonBlogger]

Boy, If Saul is taking this this much heat for a 16 and 10 team at this point of the season, the fans at Oakland must be getting a noose ready for Kampe. Having said that, the team defense at SDSU was shockingly bad last night. This Jackrabbit team is good but giving up 80 plus points to them? Come on!

There are too many opposing players getting to the rim and there are too many open threes. Team defense is partly technique but mostily hustle. Offense on this Bison team will take care of itself I think if they can get more stops.

Saul may have to pull a Tom Crean and put helmets and shoulder pads on the guys in practice and really get nuts. Something has to change this soft defensive mentality.

[CAS4127]

NDSU just does not fire coaches during the season, so Saul is not gonna get the boot this season, nor will Dehoff. Changes, if any will come in the off-season. So far as Saul is concerned, I doubt he gets let go in the off-season-->the "young team" deal will come up in his evaluation and that will be enough to get him at least another year. Now, if the same BS happens next year, then he needs to start worring, as Gene had better put his foot down.

Dehoff should be gone after the season, but, again, it will not be a precipitous firing, as, again, NDSU just does not do that.

[HerdBot]

No way. Sauls a good coach. Give him a new arena and he can get some good players. Were in 3rd place but obviously not in the same league as ORU and SDSU.

[tjbison]

NDSU just does not fire coaches during the season, so Saul is not gonna get the boot this season, nor will Dehoff. Changes, if any will come in the off-season. So far as Saul is concerned, I doubt he gets let go in the off-season-->the "young team" deal will come up in his evaluation and that will be enough to get him at least another year. Now, if the same BS happens next year, then he needs to start worring, as Gene had better put his foot down.

Dehoff should be gone after the season, but, again, it will not be a precipitous firing, as, again, NDSU just does not do that.

Yeah enough is enough for the womens team

[HerdBot]

Saul - good coach. Bad recruiter. Average development of players
Carolyn - bad coach. Bad recruiter. Bad development if players

You can fix recruiting. You cant fix bad coaching.

Saul wins with good players. He lost out to SDSU on Nate Wolters and that blows. Amy took 2nd place in the Sumnit her first year and the program has been run into the ground and the cubbord is bare. In all fairness, Saul still has a young team and we are better than we have been over the last 2 years. Lets see where we are in 1 year and revisit

[BisonJD]

Personally I don't think this team has gotten any better from the first game after the Fab 4 until now. In fact I think the program may have taken a few steps backwards. I think he can be a fabulous recruiter. He has the passion and charisma to do a great job with that, even though you could make a strong case that he hasn't landed that one program changing recruit yet. I just think he struggles with x's and o's and that hasn't changed from his first game until now. The interesting thing is though that I don't know if we would be able to get a coach better than him though.

I agree for the most part with your post....As a South Dakotan and NDSU grad, it was not fun sitting there last night watching NDSU get abused by a skinny, 6-3, albino who thinks he is going to be drafted into the NBA. I had been looking forward to this game for a long time and it was an enormous let down to say the least. Saul will be fine, BECAUSE he is a good recruiter. Some may disagree, but I do believe LA has the potential to be a "program changing" recruit. Yes, he turns it over too much, but he is very young and was the only player on the floor last night who looked like he actually belonged. I hope the talent can develop and cover-up the perceived lack of X and Os.

[wow]

I agree for the most part with your post....As a South Dakotan and NDSU grad, it was not fun sitting there last night watching NDSU get abused by a skinny, 6-3, albino who thinks he is going to be drafted into the NBA. I had been looking forward to this game for a long time and it was an enormous let down to say the least. Saul will be fine, BECAUSE he is a good recruiter. Some may disagree, but I do believe LA has the potential to be a "program changing" recruit. Yes, he turns it over too much, but he is very young and was the only player on the floor last night who looked like he actually belonged. I hope the talent can develop and cover-up the perceived lack of X and Os.

In last night's post game, Saul said "In my opinion he should probably play in the NBA someday." Although, judging by his ability to gauge talent, I'm not sure I put a ton of stock in that statement.

Were you one of the Bison fans saying NDSU was better off without him? LOLOLOLOLOLOL

[silkamilkamonico]

Wolters is an amazing player. He has single handidly saved Nagy's coaching job for another 3 years.

[heckler]

I am obviously not a huge basketball mind but could some posters please give me some examples or explain to me how Saul is a good coach? I am not saying he is a terrible coach or even bad coach I am just trying to see what everyone loves about him.

[nebraskajack]

From an outside perspective, I'm not sure what you guys are worried about. Given your youth, 3rd place so far is pretty danggood.

A couple of years back, we (SDSU) had a team which had 2 four year starters and a skinny freshman point guard and you were not far removed from a senior laden team that made it to the big dance. We thought this is our chance because we have the experience returning to take you out. Of course we got swept that season and finished with around 16 wins, everyone said Nagy sucked and NDSU was in his head.

Now fast forward 2 years and that skinny point guard has turned into a stud and you are starting 4 sophomores and a freshman. Now all the sudden Nagy is in Saul's head? In 2 more years when we graduate Wolter's and you start 4 seniors and a junior will Saul be back in Nagy's head? You guys have an excellent fanbase that has high expectations. Those expectations have led to a great sports program but everyone needs to step back away from the cliff. It's one bad month, if this group is playing this way next year as juniors then you can panic button, but I'm guessing you'll be fighting for first. Just my $.02

Good luck the rest of this year......unless you are playing us!

[HerdBot]

I am obviously not a huge basketball mind but could some posters please give me some examples or explain to me how Saul is a good coach? I am not saying he is a terrible coach or even bad coach I am just trying to see what everyone loves about him.

NCAA basketball tournament and was only a few plays away from knocking of Kansas. Of course he did that with the fab 4, who Tim Miles recruited. ( i think he recruited them, correct me if I'm wrong) Obviously he had something to do with their development. Saul wins with good players.

[HerdBot]

From an outside perspective, I'm not sure what you guys are worried about. Given your youth, 3rd place so far is pretty danggood.

A couple of years back, we (SDSU) had a team which had 2 four year starters and a skinny freshman point guard and you were not far removed from a senior laden team that made it to the big dance. We thought this is our chance because we have the experience returning to take you out. Of course we got swept that season and finished with around 16 wins, everyone said Nagy sucked and NDSU was in his head.

Now fast forward 2 years and that skinny point guard has turned into a stud and you are starting 4 sophomores and a freshman. Now all the sudden Nagy is in Saul's head? In 2 more years when we graduate Wolter's and you start 4 seniors and a junior will Saul be back in Nagy's head? You guys have an excellent fanbase that has high expectations. Those expectations have led to a great sports program but everyone needs to step back away from the cliff. It's one bad month, if this group is playing this way next year as juniors then you can panic button, but I'm guessing you'll be fighting for first. Just my $.02

Good luck the rest of this year......unless you are playing us!

Well put. Now the womens program is a different story.

[silkamilkamonico]

Saul has some very good players right now.

[BisonTeacher]

Saul wins with good players.

Silk kind of beat me to it, but I was thinking the same thing.

[wow]

I realize I've been trolling hard the last 12 hours, but I have a serious question. What would the coaching picture look like right now if Woodside's buzzer beater rimmed out in Sioux Falls? Would Saul still be coach?

[Bison"FANatic"]

One of the stats I always pay attention to is on the road in conference. It tells a lot about a team. It seems to me to tell a lot about how you are playing defense. That was the big difference between the last Miles year and the First year under Saul.

In 07 08 Miles was 3-7 on the road in conference and the next year Saul had them at 8-1 on the road in conference.

Last year we were 2-7 and this year we are 4-5 on the road in conference.

Not making excuses last night was a butt kicking and the turn overs were unacceptable and made me go WTF quite a few times. Hell Fargo North could have picked off most of those passes last night. The drop off last night when LA had to go out was huge, his upside is crazy you have to remember that this is the first time he has ever played a regular season this long with this much travel and last year at prep school was his first year at point. This team will get better and we have basically the whole team for a few more regular season games and the tourney this year and for a whole 2 more years.

[Bison"FANatic"]

I realize I've been trolling hard the last 12 hours, but I have a serious question. What would the coaching picture look like right now if Woodside's buzzer beater rimmed out in Sioux Falls? Would Saul still be coach?

Yes

10 character.

[HandoEX]

I realize I've been trolling hard the last 12 hours, but I have a serious question. What would the coaching picture look like right now if Woodside's buzzer beater rimmed out in Sioux Falls? Would Saul still be coach?
Woodside's shot was not a buzzer beater. Jones brought the ball down the court and missed his buzzer beater.

I think he'd REALLY be on the hot seat if we would have lost that game to OU in SF. He'd still be the coach though.

[wow]

Woodside's shot was not a buzzer beater. Jones brought the ball down the court and missed his buzzer beater.

I think he'd REALLY be on the hot seat if we would have lost that game to OU in SF. He'd still be the coach though.

Thanks for the correction, fair enough.

In all seriousness, NDSU is in third place. I realize you all have high expectations, but to me it isn't time to panic.

[HandoEX]

Thanks for the correction, fair enough.

In all seriousness, NDSU is in third place. I realize you all have high expectations, but to me it isn't time to panic.
Good post. The frustration comes from a lack of progression. Teams have figured us out and our weaknesses are exposed big time.

[#1BISONFAN ASHLEY]

This is clinically insane. The team is 3rd in the league, 16-10 and oh by they way WE START 4 SOPHOMORES AND A FRESHMAN!

It's blatantly obvious the team has struggled as of late, especially in what Bison fan's view as the most meaningful games (UND/SDSU/ORU etc), but seriously talking about canning Saul? Get real. I'll even admit tonight was the probably the worst loss of the year given the lopsided nature, but come on folks - back away from the ledge.

You've seen how good this team can be (under Saul's tutelage), now just have some patience. It's a long season and the Bison are an EXTREMELY young team without a ton of experience. Give it some time, but the Bison are in a good place right now.

I agree... 100% We are very young. We will make a run next year or 2 years from now FOR SURE. I agree though that we have taken a step back from where we were right away in the season. I sitll think we can make a run this year if Saul does the right things to this team, he has the talent, he and the players just need to apply it.

[Mr. Burgundy]

Alot of good stuff since the game. some fair, some not totally accurate. One thing of note, both kids that NDSU has signed and coming in for next year had offers from the Jacks. Just an interesting note. Hope they turn out to be studs, because after last night's complete disaster, we need more talent and someone with some badass in them. There is no chance in hell I would have allowed Nate to make wide open layups over and over without knocking him down and earn them at the line. That was a soft as I have ever seen the Bison play. We are long and athletic and we were a mess last night. Tough loss. Can't be fun today at the BSA. Hope they can pull it together.

[GRAFTONBISON]

Alot of good stuff since the game. some fair, some not totally accurate. One thing of note, both kids that NDSU has signed and coming in for next year had offers from the Jacks. Just an interesting note. Hope they turn out to be studs, because after last night's complete disaster, we need more talent and someone with some badass in them. There is no chance in hell I would have allowed Nate to make wide open layups over and over without knocking him down and earn them at the line. That was a soft as I have ever seen the Bison play. We are long and athletic and we were a mess last night. Tough loss. Can't be fun today at the BSA. Hope they can pull it together.

I think most of us respect your input and thoughts on the team Burgandy. I am glad to hear someone "in the know" questioning our toughness, etc. after last night.

[BisonTeacher]

I think most of us respect your input and thoughts on the team Burgandy. I am glad to hear someone "in the know" questioning our toughness, etc. after last night.

Ditto, to all this.

[JACKRABBITFAN]

If people cared about women's basketball you would be correct.

How many National championships in women's bb does NDSU have? and they dont care? Deep down I think they do. Saul is a very good coach and this year he has his challenges directing a very talented but young team.

[BisonTeacher]

How many National championships in women's bb does NDSU have? and they dont care? Deep down I think they do. Saul is a very good coach and this year he has his challenges directing a very talented but young team.

Sometimes I think Bison fans forget about this. Amy Ruley did a heck of a job in the 90's with the women's bball program. Yes it was D II, but there is some tradition there.

[CAS4127]

Sometimes I think Bison fans forget about this. Amy Ruley did a heck of a job in the 90's with the women's bball program. Yes it was D II, but there is some tradition there.

We won 5 NC's in the late 80's and 90's as I recall!!! You call that "some tradition"!!!! I say there is WAY more tradition with WBB than men's!!

[344Johnson]

We won 5 NC's in the late 80's and 90's as I recall!!! You call that "some tradition"!!!! I say there is WAY more tradition with WBB than men's!!

At this point, it is just some tradition. When was the last time the Bison women were even close to being special?

[BisonTeacher]

We won 5 NC's in the late 80's and 90's as I recall!!! You call that "some tradition"!!!! I say there is WAY more tradition with WBB than men's!!

So I forgot my purple font!!!!

[CAS4127]

At this point, it is just some tradition. When was the last time the Bison women were even close to being special?

It's still more tradition than THE ONE time MBB was just borderline special--just sayin'!!

And keep in mind that the last FB NC was 1990-->again, just sayin'!!

[BisonTeacher]

It's still more tradition than THE ONE time MBB was just borderline special--just sayin'!!

I'm pretty sure Ruley went like 3 years without even losing a game...? Im not gonna look it up cuz thats cheating. But I think that's right.

[nebraskajack]

Alot of good stuff since the game. some fair, some not totally accurate. One thing of note, both kids that NDSU has signed and coming in for next year had offers from the Jacks. Just an interesting note. Hope they turn out to be studs, because after last night's complete disaster, we need more talent and someone with some badass in them. There is no chance in hell I would have allowed Nate to make wide open layups over and over without knocking him down and earn them at the line. That was a soft as I have ever seen the Bison play. We are long and athletic and we were a mess last night. Tough loss. Can't be fun today at the BSA. Hope they can pull it together.
That must be the thugs in us that ORU keeps accusing the XDSU's of having!!:)

By the way I agree, you have to make someone fear taking it to the hole.

[BisonJD]

Alot of good stuff since the game. some fair, some not totally accurate. One thing of note, both kids that NDSU has signed and coming in for next year had offers from the Jacks. Just an interesting note. Hope they turn out to be studs, because after last night's complete disaster, we need more talent and someone with some badass in them. There is no chance in hell I would have allowed Nate to make wide open layups over and over without knocking him down and earn them at the line. That was a soft as I have ever seen the Bison play. We are long and athletic and we were a mess last night. Tough loss. Can't be fun today at the BSA. Hope they can pull it together.

Always good stuff Burgundy....but I have to give you major props on this line. I asked my SDSU/USD buddies at the game last night if USD would have allowed Wolters those easy layups, even in garbage time...both said no way in hell that happens.

[Mr. Burgundy]

I think most of us respect your input and thoughts on the team Burgandy. I am glad to hear someone "in the know" questioning our toughness, etc. after last night.

We got our ass kicked by a team that isn't known for being tough. I think everyone is pissed. No question.

[ndsubison1]

Boy, If Saul is taking this this much heat for a 16 and 10 team at this point of the season, the fans at Oakland must be getting a noose ready for Kampe. Having said that, the team defense at SDSU was shockingly bad last night. This Jackrabbit team is good but giving up 80 plus points to them? Come on!

There are too many opposing players getting to the rim and there are too many open threes. Team defense is partly technique but mostily hustle. Offense on this Bison team will take care of itself I think if they can get more stops.

Saul may have to pull a Tom Crean and put helmets and shoulder pads on the guys in practice and really get nuts. Something has to change this soft defensive mentality.

yup, the defense has gotten significantly worse. they were getting to the rim at will. i dont think i saw one hedge on a screen last night either. im no coach but usually you only switch if it's a guard to guard screen, or similar matchup or if you absolutely have to if theres no time to recover. on the offensive end sdsu played great defense, esp. in the lane. we rarely got clean looks in the lane. they had guys in our face and contested a lot of shots. maybe we arent a half court team. i havent seen as much transition as i would like to see from this team. LA, Braun, Wright, Hale can all get up and down the floor. Hell, Aaberg is good at getting up and down the floor with his size. JUst look at Zeller from UNC, thats why hes so valuable. He runs up and down the floor and exploits big men for doing that. I wanna see some transition. Our offense has no flow. Seems like everybody just stands and watched Braun and LA dribble around

[GRAFTONBISON]

We got our ass kicked by a team that isn't known for being tough. I think everyone is pissed. No question.

Like some others, I am not a big fan Dylan Hale, but maybe he could have delivered some toughness last night? Never would have been enought to make up 25 points, but maybe could have set a different tone? Just some rambling thoughts, I guess.

How serious is the ankle injury? Will he be available this weekend, next weekend?

[BisonBlogger]

Reading these posts, several have talked about the defense of this current team and several about the Woodside era.

We all have to remember that while Saul did not recruit the Fab 4, he was largely responsible for developing them. Woodside was the offensive catalyst on that team, but he probably was the weakest link on the defense end but certainly no liability. Nelson who was a 6'4" guard that was a great chaser and perimeter defender, Tveidt and Winkleman were long and could move laterally and defend well both on the perimeter an near the basket and Moorman was a 6'10" 260 lb excellent post defender. Yet it took these guys a couple of seasons together to play a real good team defense. Saul was largely responsible for that.

Seems like this current team may have a ways to go in couple of positions to get to that level. Coaches game play you and find weaknesses and exploit them.

[CaBisonFan]

The team looks hapless. They also appear to be soft. They also appear to have little to no leadership on the court.

Frankly...I've felt that the basketball team has lacked real 'fire' since the Big Dance...and even then, they weren't coached all that well.

Saul knew enough to leave the Fab Four basically alone.

I'm not impressed.

[stevdock]

The team looks hapless. They also appear to be soft. They also appear to have little to no leadership on the court.

Frankly...I've felt that the basketball team has lacked real 'fire' since the Big Dance...and even then, they weren't coached all that well.

Saul knew enough to leave the Fab Four basically alone.

I'm not impressed.

Completely agree. That team shouldn't have needed basically a buzzer beater to win the conference, but they did. That "fire" was there with Coach Miles and he knew how to transfer it onto the court and make his players do things and believe things that they could not do on their own. That's what makes a good coach. Those players would run through walls for Coach Miles. I know it's not fair to compare the two coaches but it is striking how different they are or at least how the fire that each has transfers onto the court.

Some of you say that Vigen is not a D1 OC and you may be right (I really don't know), but I feel that way about Coach Phillips and honestly always have since he was hired. He seems like a great guy but I just think he is a step out of his element and isn't a D1 head coach. At least not right now. Even saying that I know it is very tough to get a good bball coach here. We got lucky with Coach Miles, and I don't know if we can get another coach of his quality in here.

[NDSUstudent]

They shouldn't have needed a buzzer beat to beat Oakland? Do people on this board even watch our games? Almost every game we play vs Oakland is a battle and that Oakland team had Jonathon Jones, Erik Kangas and Keith Benson. They were very good and honestly were just coming into their own.

People talk about Miles but we had the same issues on the road then that we have now, I do realize we beat some good teams but we also lost to some terrible teams.

[herdmember]

They shouldn't have needed a buzzer beat to beat Oakland? Do people on this board even watch our games? Almost every game we play vs Oakland is a battle and that Oakland team had Jonathon Jones, Erik Kangas and Keith Benson. They were very good and honestly were just coming into their own.

People talk about Miles but we had the same issues on the road then that we have now, I do realize we beat some good teams but we also lost to some terrible teams.

Thank you. The fab 4 finally played stellar defense under Saul their senior year. To say he just left them alone just seems like throwing something against the wall and hoping it sticks.

[silkamilkamonico]

They shouldn't have needed a buzzer beat to beat Oakland? Do people on this board even watch our games? Almost every game we play vs Oakland is a battle and that Oakland team had Jonathon Jones, Erik Kangas and Keith Benson. They were very good and honestly were just coming into their own.


Yea I'm not sure where that quote comes from.

Again, the team with Woodside was amazing for our standards. It's arguably the best basketball team NDSU has ever had ( I personally think the year before when Dre was a SR was better because of the presence of Dre). It had arguably the best player ever in the program, and easily IMHO 3 of the top 15-20 players all time at NDSU.

But for as good as that team was, they were NOT significantly better than Oakland. Oakland was much deeper, had far better athletes, and played in many more bigger games.

I have beaten Saul down too here, but to say that team wasn't as good as it could have been because of Saul was ridiculous. It was a very good team that certainly had holes and limitations (roster speaking), and it certainly wasn't significantly better than Oakland.

Anyone who's trying to argue that didn't pay attention to the Summit Conference during that time.

[BisonTeacher]

How many basketball games come down to the last minute? like 80%??????????

[NDSUstudent]

People can say what they want about Saul but the second he took over as coach he was expected to take that team to the NCAA tournament and he delivered. To me that said a lot and it still says a lot about the guy. No coach at NDSU has ever been under that much pressure.

Then once after the fab four left he had to rebuild basically the entire team, only one player coming back had seen consistent playing time. Now here we are a few years later in third place in the Summit with a chance to win 20 games. There is no doubt this team still has issues but the best years are ahead of us. If we are still having these issues in the next two years then I could see people really questioning Saul. But right now we are just a young, promising but maddeningly inconsistent team.

[silkamilkamonico]

I did not like the hiring of Saul right away and have come full circle for the time being, but IMO here are some points about Saul.

1) He did everything he should of, and then some with the Fab 4. People that want to step forward and say he should have won a tournament game in the NCAA's with that team do not have any clue what the realm of D1 basketball brings.

2) IMO Saul had NOTHING after the Fab 4 graduated. Tviedt was simply a very good role player, who's play diminished a little only because he wasn't playing off those guys. Vaughn was not a D1 basketball player, but he did have a nice SR year. I think Freddy Coleman was a great athlete trying to play basketball. Flowers was just not ever entrenched in the program. Carlson was not bad. There was some nice players, but nothing that would compliment a formidable D1 Mid Major.

Let's not forget we were so bare that Zastrow came in and started as a true freshmen. That's how little depth this program had when the fab 4 left. It was not "bad recruiting", because NDSU hasn't shown up until then that it would even be able to cut it in D1. As a JR Zastrow now sits behind Freshmen and Sophomores. That's what that NCAA tournament has done for our recruiting. People can cry all they want about recruiting and talent, but that has NOT been an issue since Saul has taken over, and he's shown no signs of slowing down going into next year.

3) Saul has always fielded a competitive team. When the cupboard was significantly bare 2-3 years ago Saul wasn't getting blown out at all. I will even argue he coached a team that overachieved and had a chance to win a lot more games they they did,and many many more games than they should of.

Ironically, the only question's I have had with Saul since being hired was over the course of the last month. Up until this year he has shown me he could coach defense, and efficient offense, could get his team to compete, and coach a young team to do some great things (earlier this year). And in just a month and a half I have turned from believing he was going to be a great longevity coach for us at this level, to completely questioning everything about him as a coach. That's what losing at UND because of a lack of effort, getting our ass kicked by the worst team in the conference, getting the shit beaten out of our rival who isn't known as tough, and numerous other losses and sorry wins due to soft, undisciplined, heartless effort over again.

We will have bad losses like 99% of the other D1 college basketball programs out there do, but consistently playing soft, undisciplined, and heartless over and over again is completely UNACCEPTABLE.

Figure it out Saul and let's get this thing turned around.

[VanClubPres]

Hot seat or not....I cannot say. But what I can say is that if I can see what other teams are doing to beat us, I can only hope that the coaches and assistants see it too. And I am sure that they do. I am guessing that whatever adustment that would need to be made in order to stop the pick/roll and mismatch that teams are doing must be worse than what we have now. Otherwise I am sure that we would have changed by now.

[ndsubison1]

not even close to a hot seat.

[ISXBISON]

not even close to a hot seat.

agreed

10char

[Bison bison]

We need to be progressing towards making the tournament.

I've been excited at times this season thinking that we could get lucky this year or be a favorite next year ONLY TO HAVE MY HEART TORN OUT OF MY ASS during the next game.

I don't see progress right now, I don't think we're getting better.

I'm not saying we can anybody, but we need to get better.

[SDBison92]

Last night I was impresses with Saul. For the first time since he has been our coach, I think we one the battle with the refs. It sounds bad but you have to stand up to the refs at times during the game. It can also show the team you are being as aggressive as they should play. Team seemed like they actually wanted to win in the second half. Keep improving and we might just win a game in sf.

[unbison]

Last night I was impresses with Saul. For the first time since he has been our coach, I think we one the battle with the refs. It sounds bad but you have to stand up to the refs at times during the game. It can also show the team you are being as aggressive as they should play. Team seemed like they actually wanted to win in the second half. Keep improving and we might just win a game in sf.
Not the first time for me..... But I was impressed with the players and Saul lastnight
That being said it wasn't hard to be impressive after my wed night in Brookings

[cornerpocket422]

As an outsider, I have to say this topic is a little surprising. Still top half in the conference. Probably should have won a couple more of those games, but the only two guys graduating are combining for around 6.5 PPG. A young team with a freshman point guard that came on strong early in the season... I think the sky is the limit for this team going forward. Alexander is likely Freshman of the Year, too.

[Herd]

I think that all our players are growing in their roles, but there too many of them that seem to have games where they don't show up. We need to have consistent performances each night. Wright, Braun, Bjork (for example) seem to have off nights, especially on the road. Winning teams avoid letdowns on the road, and win when they are supposed to win. SDSU seems to have made this move, while we have not yet.

[unbison]

I have not seen bjorkland have a off night I have seen him not get the ball down low..... We must utilize his post presence it opens up so much ..... Can't look at just the box scores

[Thunder_Struck]

I have not seen bjorkland have a off night I have seen him not get the ball down low..... We must utilize his post presence it opens up so much ..... Can't look at just the box scores


Saturday night there were many great post entry passes. Need to continue to feed Marshall inside.

[Mr. Burgundy]

I have not seen bjorkland have a off night I have seen him not get the ball down low..... We must utilize his post presence it opens up so much ..... Can't look at just the box scores

Totally agree. The more we can open up the inside by making them respect us from the outside (which we did on Saturday night), the easier it is to get Marshall the ball. Which is sort of why I was hoping Felt would start (get them away from sagging in).

[Mr. Burgundy]

I think that all our players are growing in their roles, but there too many of them that seem to have games where they don't show up. We need to have consistent performances each night. Wright, Braun, Bjork (for example) seem to have off nights, especially on the road. Winning teams avoid letdowns on the road, and win when they are supposed to win. SDSU seems to have made this move, while we have not yet.

SDSU is a GREAT team right now, but they are significantly different at home as opposed to the road. They got dominated at UND and also were being humiliated at USD very recently until a late comeback, in which they still lost. Nobody is winning in Frost right now. Confidence is high. NDSU is not at that level yet, but we also are ALOT better at home than on the road. We have proven that way too many times recently. To say this weekend is critical is an understatement. Need a home sweep, get confidence and the #3 seed.

[BISONFANAJ]

This team has turned out better than most thought, especially after the exh. loss to Moorhead. At times, they are an offensively challenged team (especially on the road) and turn the ball over too much. A lot of that is lack of experience and honestly lack of confident ball-handlers. Hale and Wright play with very little discipline, and Felt is either smoking hot or ice cold. With Braun, Bjorklund and Alexander as a solid nucleus, the Bison should have high expectations for next season and the following season. Expect the Bison to be at the top of the league next year or the year after, or Phillips could be on the hot seat. He shouldn't be on it now.

[tony]

This team has turned out better than most thought, especially after the exh. loss to Moorhead. At times, they are an offensively challenged team (especially on the road) and turn the ball over too much. A lot of that is lack of experience and honestly lack of confident ball-handlers. Hale and Wright play with very little discipline, and Felt is either smoking hot or ice cold. With Braun, Bjorklund and Alexander as a solid nucleus, the Bison should have high expectations for next season and the following season. Expect the Bison to be at the top of the league next year or the year after, or Phillips could be on the hot seat. He shouldn't be on it now.

I try to put it in this perspective: Some guys wanted to fire Coach Bohl two years ago. Now some of these same guys want Saul fired.

[unbison]

I don't want Saul fired I like Saul ...... I wanna see the fire in Saul that he displayed Saturday night! I firmly believe that the intensity Saul displayed Saturday night was felt and absorbed by the players !

[SDBison92]

I don't want Saul fired I like Saul ...... I wanna see the fire in Saul that he displayed Saturday night! I firmly believe that the intensity Saul displayed Saturday night was felt and absorbed by the players !

I agree. I hope we come out with the same intensity for these next 2 cames as the second half on Saturday.

[BisonBlogger]

Discussions like this should never take place until a season is over. Could be a lot of crow eaten once the 2011-12 Summit League Tournament is played.

[unbison]

These discussions can take place whenever people want...... I believe we still have free speech

[CAS4127]

These discussions can take place whenever people want...... I believe we still have free speech

Not here . . . ask your buddy lakes if you don't believe me!!:eeek::paperbag:

[BisonTeacher]

These discussions can take place whenever people want...... I believe we still have free speech

Good to know. Thanks for pointing that out. I'm going to have to remember you said that.

[unbison]

Not here . . . ask your buddy lakes if you don't believe me!!:eeek::paperbag:
Funny thing is I seem to have few problems with saying what I feel

[MNLonghorn10]

yeaa... wonder whos out there?

[Twentysix]

Not this year.

[southcliffbison]

Discussions like this should never take place until a season is over. Could be a lot of crow eaten once the 2011-12 Summit League Tournament is played.

OK, the Summit league tourney is over (at least for NDSU); so, now we can ask, "Is/should Phillips be on the hot seat?" My thinking is yes; I will even state that if there is a fourth in a row..... one and done...... Gene will cut Saul loose.

[Twentysix]

OK, the Summit league tourney is over (at least for NDSU); so, now we can ask, "Is/should Phillips be on the hot seat?" My thinking is yes; I will even state that if there is a fourth in a row..... one and done...... Gene will cut Saul loose.

If we go 1 and done next year in the tournament I agree GT will let Saul go.

[EmbdenBison]

If we go 1 and done next year in the tournament I agree GT will let Saul go.

Agreed. One more chance and then pull the plug!

[Wally]

OK, the Summit league tourney is over (at least for NDSU); so, now we can ask, "Is/should Phillips be on the hot seat?" My thinking is yes; I will even state that if there is a fourth in a row..... one and done...... Gene will cut Saul loose.

I feel the same way. I don't think he will get fired this year, but next year there HAS to be marked improvement. The first year after the NCAA berth, I think most thought it would be a tough year, but we are going on 4 years next year. That is plenty of time to turn around a BB team.

[1998braves64]

To me not this year. 09-10 and 10-11 were bad years due to the hole that we were in due to the recruiting means NDSU used to make it in 09. This year has been a disappointment but missing baskets and bad fouls aren't done by the coach of course he needs to clean those up next year. He'll be under a watchful eye next year. Not sure if it'll happen next year even if same thing happens will be curious to find out.

[BisonTeacher]

I feel the same way. I don't think he will get fired this year, but next year there HAS to be marked improvement. The first year after the NCAA berth, I think most thought it would be a tough year, but we are going on 4 years next fall. That is plenty of time to turn around a BB team.

Not to mention that if this team has as much talent as everyone says...and his direction isnt working, they would do something before this group graduates.

[North Side]

I think saul is on the warm seat.... hot seat if this happens next year.

[1998braves64]

I think saul is on the warm seat.... hot seat if this happens next year.

Agreed. No reason that with Braun and Wright and felt as juniors next year can't make significant improvement. Saw in post game that Saul directly looked at Braun and Wright and said it's on you guys to learn from this season and improve. Hopefully they can pick up the pieces this off season and make things happen next fall.

[Twentysix]

Agreed. No reason that with Braun and Wright and felt as juniors next year can't make significant improvement. Saw in post game that Saul directly looked at Braun and Wright and said it's on you guys to learn from this season and improve. Hopefully they can pick up the pieces this off season and make things happen next fall.

It's also on saul to make better adjustments. I can't imagine we will be worse. Losing Carlson and Lundberg doesn't really mean anything... they hardly played anyways.

[1998braves64]

It's also on saul to make better adjustments. I can't imagine we will be worse. Losing Carlson and Lundberg doesn't really mean anything... they hardly played anyways.

Yes and if the same thing comes out next year I will be with all the ones that want him gone now (of course they'll been right long before me so I'll have to eat my crow then!) To me I can see the talent these players have LA, Braun, Wright (when he's healthy you obviously can see that a bit tonight), Bjork have all shown they can play well at this level they just need it to be consistent night in night out. Felt needs to work on his defense game so he's not a 1 dimensional player, he doesn't need to become a nelson/tveidt type defender but a little more d would be very good for him.

[Twentysix]

Yes and if the same thing comes out next year I will be with all the ones that want him gone now (of course they'll been right long before me so I'll have to eat my crow then!) To me I can see the talent these players have LA, Braun, Wright (when he's healthy you obviously can see that a bit tonight), Bjork have all shown they can play well at this level they just need it to be consistent night in night out. Felt needs to work on his defense game so he's not a 1 dimensional player, he doesn't need to become a nelson/tveidt type defender but a little more d would be very good for him.

I have high hopes.

[1998braves64]

Me too which will make next year 10 times worse if the same thing happens again!

[Mr. Burgundy]

Clearly the most frustrating second half of the season that I can remember. This team did not have a unified voice, lacked leadership, and was young. I know some of people don't like being young as an "excuse" but if you know anything about college basketball, youth doesn't win....and don't use Kentucky as an example, those are all NBA first rounders that Cal is coaching.

We have a first team all Summit League Sophomore and the best incoming Freshman, both played a ton, and you would think matured alot.
We don't graduate anyone for two years. This year we lose Carlson and Drew, neither of which even played, next year we lose Zastrow who will at best be a 3rd string PG, and more of a player/coach/leader and a great one at that. Other schools will graduate studs, we don't. It is addition by subtraction in the chemestry portion of the team. PERIOD.

We add two kids in Vandenberg and Werner. Both kids were highly recruited and will add to our team. Both had Jackrabbit offers, Werner had a few other offers as well. Vandenberg will play immediately at the SF, and Werner will redshirt based on our post depth. We also add Kading who immediately has the body and bounce to contribute, I have seen him play very well many times.

Finally, we have a scholarship to use, it sounds like it will be saved for a late option. We have had great success going that route. This team needs someone who can score on their own. My personal preference would be a 2 guard or a scoring 3. I like going after high school kids the most, a Juco (2) would put us with 7 kids in one class, and it sounds HIGHLY unlikely that would be the route we would chose. There are Juco's out there that would have 3 years remaining, so that could be an option. With a fairly balanced roster, we could be in a position to recruit best player available.

I fully expect a 21 to 24 win season next year. Nobody can be happy with how that season ended. Complete disaster down the stretch. This team better work its butt off and use this nasty feeling to improve over the summer. Leaders MUST step up and take control of this team. If it becomes Taylor's team, great. Lead.

Finally, no hot seat, and I would guess that no matter what happens, he has at the minimum 2 seasons as they won't get rid of anyone before this current Sophomore Class graduates, too much talent, and I have yet to see Gene make a quick judgment when on paper at least we have improved our win total 3 consecutive years after the cupboard was left bare. We started 2 Freshman PG's, and 3 sophomore's in a tourney game. Summit League was much improved top to bottom this year, hard to be patient, but I am excited that we have a few kids that appear to be on the verge of being terrific. Great Freshman Year by LA. Sorry for the long post.

[ndsubison1]

Clearly the most frustrating second half of the season that I can remember. This team did not have a unified voice, lacked leadership, and was young. I know some of people don't like being young as an "excuse" but if you know anything about college basketball, youth doesn't win....and don't use Kentucky as an example, those are all NBA first rounders that Cal is coaching.

We have a first team all Summit League Sophomore and the best incoming Freshman, both played a ton, and you would think matured alot.
We don't graduate anyone for two years. This year we lose Carlson and Drew, neither of which even played, next year we lose Zastrow who will at best be a 3rd string PG, and more of a player/coach/leader and a great one at that. Other schools will graduate studs, we don't. It is addition by subtraction in the chemestry portion of the team. PERIOD.

We add two kids in Vandenberg and Werner. Both kids were highly recruited and will add to our team. Both had Jackrabbit offers, Werner had a few other offers as well. Vandenberg will play immediately at the SF, and Werner will redshirt based on our post depth. We also add Kading who immediately has the body and bounce to contribute, I have seen him play very well many times.

Finally, we have a scholarship to use, it sounds like it will be saved for a late option. We have had great success going that route. This team needs someone who can score on their own. My personal preference would be a 2 guard or a scoring 3. I like going after high school kids the most, a Juco (2) would put us with 7 kids in one class, and it sounds HIGHLY unlikely that would be the route we would chose. There are Juco's out there that would have 3 years remaining, so that could be an option. With a fairly balanced roster, we could be in a position to recruit best player available.

I fully expect a 21 to 24 win season next year. Nobody can be happy with how that season ended. Complete disaster down the stretch. This team better work its butt off and use this nasty feeling to improve over the summer. Leaders MUST step up and take control of this team. If it becomes Taylor's team, great. Lead.

Finally, no hot seat, and I would guess that no matter what happens, he has at the minimum 2 seasons as they won't get rid of anyone before this current Sophomore Class graduates, too much talent, and I have yet to see Gene make a quick judgment when on paper at least we have improved our win total 3 consecutive years after the cupboard was left bare. We started 2 Freshman PG's, and 3 sophomore's in a tourney game. Summit League was much improved top to bottom this year, hard to be patient, but I am excited that we have a few kids that appear to be on the verge of being terrific. Great Freshman Year by LA. Sorry for the long post.

finally a voice of reason on here

[WYOBISONMAN]

Burgundy.....I hope you are right. For me, I think we need to give Saul an honest shake next season. But......if next season turns to shit like this year.....there ought to be some SERIOUS talk of change.

[tjbison]

Burgundy.....I hope you are right. For me, I think we need to give Saul an honest shake next season. But......if next season turns to shit like this year.....there ought to be some SERIOUS talk of change.

The only change I forsee is on the Womens side, if she is still here no way Saul is gone

[Burnt_Secondary]

Burgandy,

I really like reading your posts but throwing Lundburg and Carlson under the bus is not what I expect from you.

I might think Saul is a worthless coach but I try very hard never to speak ill of a player, just because their career is over is no excuse.

:mad:

[Mr. Burgundy]

Burgandy,

I really like reading your posts but throwing Lundburg and Carlson under the bus is not what I expect from you.

I might think Saul is a worthless coach but I try very hard never to speak ill of a player, just because their career is over is no excuse.

:mad:

Very fair, and I have never spoken poorly about a player. we have been very fortunate, or recruited a long line of absolutely terrific kids. It is factual that we just played a tourney game without a minute played by a Junior or Senior. It is also a fact that when you have a team that is playing a very young roster and we have a couple of seniors on the team that have started a bunch in their career that suddenly aren't playing, it can be a stressful/challenge in the locker room.

[Burnt_Secondary]

Burgandy,

I understand your point, I didn't mean to come off to snarky, I'm just frustrated right now. I'm a huge basketball fan and got so spoiled by seeing great play back in the Andre Smith days and the fab 4.

I really can't believe what I'm seeing now, it's really night and day. At least when the football team sucked a couple years ago going to a game was at least an event. If this is what Bison Basketball is going to be we really need the SHAC.

I understand where you are coming from Burgandy, I'm going to back away from the keyboard now and try and get some sleep.

[NDSUFan_Sav]

Well said Burgundy, we're all frustrated: fans, coaches, and definitely the players. I agree they better be working their ASS off this summer putting up shots after shot, working on all aspects of their game.

Coaches can also use improvement on making adjustments, getting different movement on the offense of end, and being able to change on the defensive side when need. I don't say we have to run a zone non-stop but just to change pace at times I think it would be a great addition to this team with the athleticism and length we have.

[CAS4127]

I'll just say this about MBB-->we'll see, and I think people r overrating we have. Talk all u want about other teams losing "studs" and us retaining. Guess what? They recruit too!! Like I said-->we'll see!! If soon to be JR's have yet to show leadership, then one has to consider whether they had the ability to do it in the first place.

Have at me, but don't say I didn't say this exact
Same thing, more or less, after the UND moral win!!

[silkamilkamonico]

I'll just say this about MBB-->we'll see, and I think people r overrating we have. Talk all u want about other teams losing "studs"

Have at me, but don't say I didn't say this exactt Same thing, more or less, after the UND moral win!!

I dont think I saw one person on this entire board call the UND game a moral win.

Those studs have to come in and go through freshmen and sophomore seasons too..

[CAS4127]

I dont think I saw one person on this entire board call the UND game a moral win.

Those studs have to come in and go through freshmen and sophomore seasons too..

I'll call peeps saying the UND loss "didnt matter" a moral pathetic victory cry-->u MBB guys can call it what u want, cuz I know nothin about BB. amazing what I saw and commented on happen to be what came to roost-->1st and 10!!!

[stevdock]

Didn't watch the game and didn't even listen to it. In my personal opinion Saul is not a D1 head coach. Yes the team is young, yes they have talent, but this team has not improved whatsoever under Saul. But saying that, there is no way he will be let go this year, next year or after that unless the team completely crashes and burns. The whole BSA thing is an excuse, but an excuse that both Saul and Gene have bought into valid or not.

[HoopsBison]

Short answer no, Saul is not there yet. However doing what this team did in the first half of the season and then allowing what happened during the second half is frustrating as hell. The most disappointing thing of the season is the team at the start of the season would have beat the team at the end. Got play your best basketball in February and March and we were far from that.

[MNLonghorn10]

it bugs me that saul didn't call a time out after the 4 pt play, and nothing was developing when they were trying to free up felt.

[bisonfan08]

I love Saul as a person and I think he's a great recruiter and has a great relationship with his players. Bottom line though, we haven't won a tourney game in the last 3 seasons. NOT A SINGLE GAME! With ORU gone next year it's going to be our best chance to get to the dance since we last made it. If this team doesn't win 20 games and at least win one tourney game Saul needs to go, plain and simple. Love the guy, need to see improvement, this team actually got worse as the season went along.

[herdmember]

Very fair, and I have never spoken poorly about a player. we have been very fortunate, or recruited a long line of absolutely terrific kids. It is factual that we just played a tourney game without a minute played by a Junior or Senior. It is also a fact that when you have a team that is playing a very young roster and we have a couple of seniors on the team that have started a bunch in their career that suddenly aren't playing, it can be a stressful/challenge in the locker room.

I agree with 99% of your longer post, but quoted this one to take up less space. I do really question the motive for not playing Carlson/Lundberg one minute. This will sound great at the team maker's luncheons, and yes it will be 100% factual that all you played the entire game were freshman/sophomores, but people that watched this team all year know enough to raise an eyebrow as to why no seniors played in the last game.

I can't believe this question wasn't asked in the postgame presser. Will ANYONE hold Saul accountable to ask if this starting lineup paid off/worked? He mentioned a couple of things in the press conference that I found interesting, and yes I'll be paraphrasing:
1) We tried a different lineup so we could play our game against them. - my take, you played a defensive team that isn't as good on offense, so you switched your starting lineup to be more of a defensive team. Whose game are you trying to play? NDSU's or WIU's?
2) Yeah, we were right there to the end and had a chance. - my take, that's great if you're playing Oral Roberts, not Western Illinois.

I think Saul is a heck of a recruiter. I think the next two years will be excellent and I'll be extremely disappointed without at least 1 trip to the dance. I'd just love to know what the seniors and some of the former players are thinking about Saul right now.

[*Bisonrube]

I agree with 99% of your longer post, but quoted this one to take up less space. I do really question the motive for not playing Carlson/Lundberg one minute. This will sound great at the team maker's luncheons, and yes it will be 100% factual that all you played the entire game were freshman/sophomores, but people that watched this team all year know enough to raise an eyebrow as to why no seniors played in the last game.

I can't believe this question wasn't asked in the postgame presser. Will ANYONE hold Saul accountable to ask if this starting lineup paid off/worked? He mentioned a couple of things in the press conference that I found interesting, and yes I'll be paraphrasing:
1) We tried a different lineup so we could play our game against them. - my take, you played a defensive team that isn't as good on offense, so you switched your starting lineup to be more of a defensive team. Whose game are you trying to play? NDSU's or WIU's?
2) Yeah, we were right there to the end and had a chance. - my take, that's great if you're playing Oral Roberts, not Western Illinois.

I think Saul is a heck of a recruiter. I think the next two years will be excellent and I'll be extremely disappointed without at least 1 trip to the dance. I'd just love to know what the seniors and some of the former players are thinking about Saul right now.

Again I will say it...CLASSLESS. Saul didn't play his seniors for his own selfish reasons ^^^^, not for the TEAMs best interest. Not even playing Carlson a minute...seriously. Saul can take his BS senior night speeches and shove em...that is no way to treat a Senior that used to start for you, got injured and battled back all year without making waves about being benched..and still performed at the end. It has to leave a bitter taste in Carlsons mouth and he deserved better. Stay Classy Saul. (If the seniors had some sort of injury, please let me know that I am way off base here)

[unbison]

Again I will say it...CLASSLESS. Saul didn't play his seniors for his own selfish reasons ^^^^, not for the TEAMs best interest. Not even playing Carlson a minute...seriously. Saul can take his BS senior night speeches and shove em...that is no way to treat a Senior that used to start for you, got injured and battled back all year without making waves about being benched..and still performed at the end. It has to leave a bitter taste in Carlsons mouth and he deserved better. Stay Classy Saul. (If the seniors had some sort of injury, please let me know that I am way off base here)


Here is a note for you..........when did this team start to fall off..... answer when carlson came back......so maybe best for the team was not carlson on the floor......i think he did make waves........just saying

[BisonSD]

Here is a note for you..........when did this team start to fall off..... answer when carlson came back......so maybe best for the team was not carlson on the floor......i think he did make waves........just saying nope come up with a different excuse. We lost three in a row in January. Carlson played 1 minute in that god awful loss to U N D. He played 4 minutes in the s d s u loss in January. He played 2 minutes in the loss to I p f w . The team fell off before Carlson came back.

[silkamilkamonico]

we lost three in a row in January. Carlson played 1 minute in that got awful loss to U N D. He played 4 minutes in the s d s u loss in January. He played 2 minutes in the loss to I p f w . The team fell off before Carlson came back.

Agreed, even when this team was winning close games at the start of the new year you could see there was building issues with it.

[unbison]

nope come up with a different excuse. We lost three in a row in January. Carlson played 1 minute in that god awful loss to U N D. He played 4 minutes in the s d s u loss in January. He played 2 minutes in the loss to I p f w . The team fell off before Carlson came back.
could it have more to do with attitude he brought to the success of younger players? And i am talking about the wire coming off his jaw ......and you talking about his 4 minutes of playing time and 1 minute of playing time is exactly what i am talking about...attitude not ability

[WYOBISONMAN]

Again I will say it...CLASSLESS. Saul didn't play his seniors for his own selfish reasons ^^^^, not for the TEAMs best interest. Not even playing Carlson a minute...seriously. Saul can take his BS senior night speeches and shove em...that is no way to treat a Senior that used to start for you, got injured and battled back all year without making waves about being benched..and still performed at the end. It has to leave a bitter taste in Carlsons mouth and he deserved better. Stay Classy Saul. (If the seniors had some sort of injury, please let me know that I am way off base here)

Who knows, maybe there were personnel issues that we don't know about. Again, I am frustrated and pissed off.....just like I was with Bohl during the down years. But, I am willing to give Saul a chance the same as Bohl. Look, Saul knows more about basketball than any of us rubes on this board. Did he fall far short this year.....damn right he fell short. But, give the guy a chance. We gave Bohl a chance to fix his issues at QB, Def. Coord. and the OC learned on the job. Let's all just take a breath....and see what Saul does next season.

But......this season was a disaster.

[*Bisonrube]

Here is a note for you..........when did this team start to fall off..... answer when carlson came back......so maybe best for the team was not carlson on the floor......i think he did make waves........just saying

Ooh it was Carlsons fault. Lmao.

[unbison]

Ooh it was Carlsons fault. Lmao.
i am not defending saul really ... read my other posts i am simply saying that carlson may have deserved as much playing time as he got!

[*Bisonrube]

i am not defending saul really ... read my other posts i am simply saying that carlson may have deserved as much playing time as he got!

Yeah just frustrated and giving you a hard time. Just thought Carlson or anyone in his position deserved a chance to play in his final game...what message does that send the current players. I am sure there are a few ways to look at it.

[*Bisonrube]

Who knows, maybe there were personnel issues that we don't know about. Again, I am frustrated and pissed off.....just like I was with Bohl during the down years. But, I am willing to give Saul a chance the same as Bohl. Look, Saul knows more about basketball than any of us rubes on this board. Did he fall far short this year.....damn right he fell short. But, give the guy a chance. We gave Bohl a chance to fix his issues at QB, Def. Coord. and the OC learned on the job. Let's all just take a breath....and see what Saul does next season.

But......this season was a disaster.

I agree. Just a wait and see...and HOPE.

[BisonAccountant44]

Yeah just frustrated and giving you a hard time. Just thought Carlson or anyone in his position deserved a chance to play in his final game...what message does that send the current players. I am sure there are a few ways to look at it.

Really? I didn't realize we were running a Jr. High program where everyone gets to play in every game just because. I don't want this to sound like I'm coming down on those Sr's because that's not my intent. There is a time and a place to make sure that everyone gets into the game and it is not the conference tournament when it's win or go home and you're in a 1 pt game with :50 seconds left. If we win, does anyone even bring up that they didn't play? I doubt it.

[80ALUM]

After the Kansas game in 09, some alumni, who follow college basketball closely but do not get to the see the Bison play, told me they thought after watching that game that Saul was not a good coach. I have been defending him to them since then but now I am beginning to think they were right all along.:(

[*Bisonrube]

Really? I didn't realize we were running a Jr. High program where everyone gets to play in every game just because. I don't want this to sound like I'm coming down on those Sr's because that's not my intent. There is a time and a place to make sure that everyone gets into the game and it is not the conference tournament when it's win or go home and you're in a 1 pt game with :50 seconds left. If we win, does anyone even bring up that they didn't play? I doubt it.

He was player of the game last week against same team. Saul started a freshman that can't do a dam thing and gave up half the points in the first half. The reason he went with that lineup is so he can say we started two freshman and 3 sophomores.
If we won would anyone bring it up?? Uffda. No if Saul actually won I would say that he was making the right moves.

[silkamilkamonico]

Carlson not playing was very much a questionmark.

Joel Lindberg not redshirting this year was an even bigger question mark. As if that mistake wasn't bad enough, the guy averaged 15 minutes per game, and 18 minutes yesterday.

[BadlandsBison]

We should hire Suel Forrester from Saturday Night Live.

Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk

[Burnt_Secondary]

Who knows, maybe there were personnel issues that we don't know about. Again, I am frustrated and pissed off.....just like I was with Bohl during the down years. But, I am willing to give Saul a chance the same as Bohl. Look, Saul knows more about basketball than any of us rubes on this board. Did he fall far short this year.....damn right he fell short. But, give the guy a chance. We gave Bohl a chance to fix his issues at QB, Def. Coord. and the OC learned on the job. Let's all just take a breath....and see what Saul does next season.

But......this season was a disaster.

Saul knows more about recruting that any of us on this board. As far as the X's and O's of basketball there are alot of people on this board that I would bet more know more.

Prove me wrong Saul . . . I don't think Saul has ever wowed me with a coaching move. Hell, yesterday we decided to play Western's game. Slow it down and be a defensive team, um, what????

The best move Saul ever made was not calling a timeout when Woodside scored the winning basket over Oakland. Those guys knew what to do and didn't need him anyway.

[silkamilkamonico]

Tviedt was the one who hit the game winner against Oakland, not Woodside.

The announcer on the radio last night kept saying that and it was rather embarrassing.

[Burnt_Secondary]

BTW, when was the last time you saw Saul diagramming anything on the clipboard in a timeout? I don't know I'm just asking.

[Burnt_Secondary]

Are you kidding me?? Our radio announcers said that Tviedt hit the game winner against Oakland?? What the . . .

[1998braves64]

Tviedt was the one who hit the game winner against Oakland, not Woodside.

The announcer on the radio last night kept saying that and it was rather embarrassing.

Tviedt hit the one to put us up 64-62... Benson dunked it make it 64-64 with 11 secs left woodside buried a long range jumper for 2 with 4 secs to make it 66-64 then J jones missed a long 3 as time expired.... just watched it again last night. Plus I was there and distinctly remember those 4 final possessions.

[silkamilkamonico]

Dam that is correct I am so wrong about this.

My bad...thanks for the clarification 1998

[MNLonghorn10]

After the Kansas game in 09, some alumni, who follow college basketball closely but do not get to the see the Bison play, told me they thought after watching that game that Saul was not a good coach. I have been defending him to them since then but now I am beginning to think they were right all along.:(
whats his best win? @ oakland post benson era?

he's been blown out by minnesota, was close this year but blew a double digit lead without the gophers best player.

he can't hold a candle to what miles did and is doing at colorado state.

[BadlandsBison]

whats his best win? @ oakland post benson era?

he's been blown out by minnesota, was close this year but blew a double digit lead without the gophers best player.

he can't hold a candle to what miles did and is doing at colorado state.

Good points. Pretty meh record, never really thought about his biggest win. Maybe Saul should let Bohl make the gameplans. And let Heagle play basketball

Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk

[tony]

I'm just curious what people thought about SDSU's coach a year ago. Is he a great X's & O's guy? If so, why did they suck for so long?

If we could have kept Miles, we would have, but he won those big games you were talking about so we lost him. If Saul won those big games, then he'd be gone too. Bottom line: NDSU coaching salary is not competitive with 150 or so DI schools.

If we want NDSU to become a consistent winner, it all starts with replacing the BSA because that wreck makes recruiting both coaches and players needlessly hard - it also hurts ticket sales.

[bisonsupporter]

Saul may know how to coach basketball, but he doesnt know how to manage the game or make correct in-game adjustments. Am I off on this one?

[silkamilkamonico]

After the Kansas game in 09, some alumni, who follow college basketball closely but do not get to the see the Bison play, told me they thought after watching that game that Saul was not a good coach. I have been defending him to them since then but now I am beginning to think they were right all along.:(

What were they saying to think this? I mean we weren't going to beat Kansas that year, we played about as well as we could of and gave them a run for their money, but kansas would beat us 7-8 times out of 10 that year.

[unbison]

What were they saying to think this? I mean we weren't going to beat Kansas that year, we played about as well as we could of and gave them a run for their money, but kansas would beat us 7-8 times out of 10 that year.
watch the game it was not well coached!
when saul signed up to be a d1 head coach he signed up to take the heat for losing and that is what this is
he is a nice guy ...........but nice doesnt always win!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[silkamilkamonico]

watch the game it was not well coached!
when saul signed up to be a d1 head coach he signed up to take the heat for losing and that is what this is
he is a nice guy ...........but nice doesnt always win!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Doesn't matter. A perfectly coached game would have most likely netted a loss as well.

I am agreeing about Saul as a coach, but I really hope they weren't justifying their argument because we didn't beat Kansas. That is just absurd.

[NDSUstudent]

whats his best win? @ oakland post benson era?

he's been blown out by minnesota, was close this year but blew a double digit lead without the gophers best player.

he can't hold a candle to what miles did and is doing at colorado state.

Saul's best win is probably @ORU(they had some crazy home conference winning streak at the time) when Woodside was a senior or vs Oakland in the Summit title game. Other than that maybe vs UC Santa Barbara last year or at San Francisco this year.

[BisonSD]

could it have more to do with attitude he brought to the success of younger players? And i am talking about the wire coming off his jaw ......and you talking about his 4 minutes of playing time and 1 minute of playing time is exactly what i am talking about...attitude not ability
And Hale and Braun dont have an attitude give me a break what are you talking about success of the younger players what did younger players do lost to und lost to sdsu at home lost to Kansas lost in tournament in first game

[Twentysix]

And Hale and Braun dont have an attitude give me a break what are you talking about success of the younger players what did younger players do lost to und lost to sdsu at home lost to Kansas lost in tournament in first game

What younger players lost to kansas?

[SDbison]

Saul needs to find a rotation that works and start making appropriate adjustments during the game.
One word to often describe play by so called DI talent on this team is "sloppy". Some of it can be excused by saying the team was relatively young, but where was the improvement during the season? Saul takes most the blame for that.
Here are some areas Saul needs to get many on the team to improve their performance (add to this list as you see fit):
1. Dribble, drive, pass, or shoot decisions. Indecision leads to lots of stupid turnovers. Stopping dribble and holding ball should be last and least (for a DI college team the Bison players do this way too often).
2. Setting screens. To set a high screen timing and position are critical. Hardly saw one done correctly all season.
3. Free throws. Too many missed overall. Very inconsistent. Shooting close to 50% in a tourney game is pathetic.
4. Motion offense. Seems like way too much passing around the perimeter without making something happen.
5. Leadership. Need to have someone who does most everything well rise to the top and be the "go to guy". Too many question marks left the Bison without any true leadership this past year.
6. Defense. Be aggressive and avoid the stupid fouls. The other team had too many easy trips to the line.

[unbison]

i agree with you sd................but will add that the screens are often not executed by the person getting the screen set for them

[CaBisonFan]

Saul will get a chance to build this group of players into a team. They show excellent potential...but they are very, very young and soft.

If they don't look better in the next year or two...Saul be gone. I agree that fundamentals and good judgment were sorely lacking. 'Hesitant' is one word that comes to mind.

If we were a really high-profile program in DI Saul would have been gone by now. We're not.

[SDbison]

If Dehoff gets another year Saul deserves 2 more. Personally, I would take one year away from each. DeHoff gone and Saul you better finsh near the top of the Summit next year and win at least one game in the conference tourney or you can go somewhere else.
Will be interesting to see how Nagy does when Wolters is done after next year.

[*Bisonrube]

Watching Tim Miles on tv now makes me miss a coach that is animated and that can actually coach more than ever. Go CSU Basketball.

[CaBisonFan]

Watching Tim Miles on tv now makes me miss a coach that is animated and that can actually coach more than ever. Go CSU Basketball.

Yeah...Tim is special. I hope that he can hang in there at CSU. He's got a really tough gig there.

[Mr. Burgundy]

Yeah...Tim is special. I hope that he can hang in there at CSU. He's got a really tough gig there.

CA.....not sure if you are being sarcastic, or not, but Tim did just get a really nice extension package at CSU. At large bid will be given to them tomorrow. Expect an 11 or 12 seed. 20 wins, 3 wins against the top 20 and more importantly, they are on the map. They are packing the place and his transfers coming in next year make them very relavent. He lost a couple of very good assistants last year, I think to Utah, and he replaced one of them with a top AAU coach out of Chicago. That paid off immediately as Tim signed a kid from his AAU program, the Irvin Mac Fire program. Colton Iverson will be an absolute beast in the Mountain West next year. A recent Denver Post article stated that scout team is beating the starters on a regular basis. Tim is doing great there, got some new facilities, getting paid very nicely, but I can guarantee you that he will be coaching a bigtime program soon. He will have a difficult choice this off season as he will be a hot commodity.....go to the next "bigger" program, or stay and coach the best team he has ever had. He can really make a splash with the talent he has returning. He only graduates a backup post player.

[BisonTeacher]

CA.....not sure if you are being sarcastic, or not,

There wasnt any purple font.....:biggrin:

[westnodak93bison]

Saul needs to find a rotation that works and start making appropriate adjustments during the game.
One word to often describe play by so called DI talent on this team is "sloppy". Some of it can be excused by saying the team was relatively young, but where was the improvement during the season? Saul takes most the blame for that.
Here are some areas Saul needs to get many on the team to improve their performance (add to this list as you see fit):
1. Dribble, drive, pass, or shoot decisions. Indecision leads to lots of stupid turnovers. Stopping dribble and holding ball should be last and least (for a DI college team the Bison players do this way too often).
2. Setting screens. To set a high screen timing and position are critical. Hardly saw one done correctly all season.
3. Free throws. Too many missed overall. Very inconsistent. Shooting close to 50% in a tourney game is pathetic.
4. Motion offense. Seems like way too much passing around the perimeter without making something happen.
5. Leadership. Need to have someone who does most everything well rise to the top and be the "go to guy". Too many question marks left the Bison without any true leadership this past year.
6. Defense. Be aggressive and avoid the stupid fouls. The other team had too many easy trips to the line.

Also, the team needs better composure. In the UND game Braun gets fouled hard and wants to fight the guy and pouts about the foul. Boo Hoo. The Bison need to be the aggressor not sit back and let a crappy scrappy team like UND rattle them. All that comes from the coach imho.