The University of North Dakota Fighting Sioux - Yes or No

[aces1180]

We've had a lot of threads about this topic, but for some reason, there has not yet been a poll. All kidding aside, I am wondering what folks would really do if faced with this decision on their ballot in June.

With that:

If you could vote on whether or not UND should be required by law to keep the Fighting Sioux nickname, what would your choice be today?

If you wish, post your rationale as to why you chose "yes" or "no".

[IndyBison]

I voted no. Although I dislike UND, and I have no issue with them using the Sioux name, this entire situation significantly hurts their athletic department and the reputation of the state. I know some have posted we should become the Ohio State of ND and let them become the Ohio U but I don't see that happening. I think NDSU benefits overall from having a strong in-state competitor and I would like to see them become competitive again. Bison-Sioux games are awesome. When I used to host the satellite broadcasts here in Indy we would get 30-40 alumni from each school. When it changed to Minnesota or South Dakota State we got 5 or 6.

It's time for this mess to end and for them to be able to move on like they want to do.

[Hammersmith]

I wish you would've included abstain as a choice. As long as it doesn't invalidate the rest of my ballot, I plan to leave it blank. I won't hurt them, but I ain't gonna help em neither no sir.

(Had to watch Rio Bravo three times over Wed & Thus. I plan to talk like Walter Brennan for awhile.)

[TransAmBison]

Lakesbison just re-entered the mat...err...bisonville.

[Tatanka]

I wish you would've included abstain as a choice. As long as it doesn't invalidate the rest of my ballot, I plan to leave it blank. I won't hurt them, but I ain't gonna help em neither no sir.

This. They'll not get the pleasure of seeing my chad hanging.

[aces1180]

I wish you would've included abstain as a choice. As long as it doesn't invalidate the rest of my ballot, I plan to leave it blank. I won't hurt them, but I ain't gonna help em neither no sir.

(Had to watch Rio Bravo three times over Wed & Thus. I plan to talk like Walter Brennan for awhile.)

Yeah, that wouldn't have been a good idea.

[TransAmBison]

As it stands right now I will not vote on it. I would feel evil to vote for the name and help them sink themselves, but there is no way I would help them. I'm not saying I could not be compelled to vote for it...depends on the Whioux fans that irritate me beforehand. This is your warning AG. :)

[bisonmike2]

I vote yes. Let them implode their athletic department, let it hurt their university, let them fail and close up shop. Maybe then NDSU will get their fair share of funding. It's a worthless institution. The world does not need more lawyers (no offense CAS) and if you want to be a doctor, go to the U of Minnesota.

[NDSUstudent]

I voted no but if I could get a lifetime pass for the bullet train that connects NDSU to NDSU Grand Forks after this leads to the collapse of UND athletics I might be swayed to vote yes.

[CAS4127]

I vote yes. Let them implode their athletic department, let it hurt their university, let them fail and close up shop. Maybe then NDSU will get their fair share of funding. It's a worthless institution. The world does not need more lawyers (no offense CAS) and if you want to be a doctor, go to the U of Minnesota.

Me take offense to that??!! He'll, I agree with you!!

[Answer Guy]

...depends on the Whioux fans that irritate me beforehand. This is your warning AG. :)

If UND implodes, I'll have more time to bug you. Just sayin'.

[Superfan]

If UND implodes, I'll have more time to hump your leg. Just sayin'.

FIFY 10characters

[matt]

I will vote against the repeal and hope for the retirement of the Fighting Sioux nickname, I know some UND coaches and athletes and I hate to see them and UND harmed by this mess.

[Tatanka]

I will vote against the repeal and hope for the retirement of the Fighting Sioux nickname, I know some UND coaches and athletes and I hate to see them and UND harmed by this mess.

The smart ones will be long gone before they are personally harmed. Just sayin'.

[imabison]

I voted no, only because I work with a bunch of Sioux fans. And actually a good reason to vote yes might be
to save them money and drive time. Huh. Well they would not be able to host games, the Scheels Arena, and Fargodome would
save them Fargo folks gas and mileage :)

[HandoEX]

Not only do I plan on voting "yes", I'm going to spend some time going door to door encouragimg others to do the same. Just doing my part to help.

/sainthood

[56BISON73]

Not only do I plan on voting "yes", I'm going to spend some time going door to door encouragimg others to do the same. Just doing my part to help.

/sainthood

Sign me up!

[ndsubison1]

I want to see und suffer but a yes vote contradicts some of my personally held beliefs. Were wasting our time voting on this crap when we could be focusing on more pertinent issues. Politicians just wasting their time on more useless and dumb laws. It comes as no surprise and its just another example of politics as usual

[SlickVic]

I want to see und suffer but a yes vote contradicts some of my personally held beliefs. Were wasting our time voting on this crap when we could be focusing on more pertinent issues. Politicians just wasting their time on more useless and dumb laws. It comes as no surprise and its just another example of politics as usual

you a mitt romney man ming? that dudes about as slick as it gets my oh my been thinkin about dying my wings grey and just rockin it

[ndsubison1]

Lol. Nope I am not a mitt guy

[Mr. Burgundy]

So in Today's Herald there is a big article from their Alumni Association Director Tim O'Keefe stating they need to continue to fold the nickname as it is doing a ton of harm to our current and future student athletes, while he respects the name (former player himself), he knows what is best for the student athletes. Interesting. Impressive. Well stated by a very smart man. Just curious what he thought of his son in law (Hakstal) sending out the email that basically started this firestorm. Haks email got all the pro hockey fans in a frenzy to keep the faith, keep the nickname, don't quit. Now they have the petitions.....and are really in a bind. Just an interesting dynamic in this entire situation.

[aces1180]

So in Today's Herald there is a big article from their Alumni Association Director Tim O'Keefe stating they need to continue to fold the nickname as it is doing a ton of harm to our current and future student athletes, while he respects the name (former player himself), he knows what is best for the student athletes. Interesting. Impressive. Well stated by a very smart man. Just curious what he thought of his son in law (Hakstal) sending out the email that basically started this firestorm. Haks email got all the pro hockey fans in a frenzy to keep the faith, keep the nickname, don't quit. Now they have the petitions.....and are really in a bind. Just an interesting dynamic in this entire situation.

That's crazy that he is Hak's FIL...I couldn't believe it when I read it on SS.com yesterday. I bet family get togethers are quite interesting.

[Tatanka]

So in Today's Herald there is a big article from their Alumni Association Director Tim O'Keefe stating they need to continue to fold the nickname as it is doing a ton of harm to our current and future student athletes, while he respects the name (former player himself), he knows what is best for the student athletes. Interesting. Impressive. Well stated by a very smart man. Just curious what he thought of his son in law (Hakstal) sending out the email that basically started this firestorm. Haks email got all the pro hockey fans in a frenzy to keep the faith, keep the nickname, don't quit. Now they have the petitions.....and are really in a bind. Just an interesting dynamic in this entire situation.

This rational look at the situation is a very recent thing and I'd be shocked if it wasn't a 180 from his previous opinion. I assert this due to the timing... This is 100% an attempt at damage control, kind of like distributing coffee cans to your buddies and begging them to bail water out of the canoe after you've spent the last few years shooting holes in the bottom with a shotgun.

A truly smart man with his heart in the right place would have written this a long time ago.

[4mcruenomore]

If UND implodes, I'll have more time to play with myself. Just sayin'.

Really fixed it

[SDbison]

I want to see und suffer but a yes vote contradicts some of my personally held beliefs. Were wasting our time voting on this crap when we could be focusing on more pertinent issues. Politicians just wasting their time on more useless and dumb laws. It comes as no surprise and its just another example of politics as usual
Actually it's politics that really started this whole mess.........its called political correctness. I might agree, teams with names like Scalpers should have been encouraged to change their name, not due to hurting perception of indians as most people are smarter than that, but only because a name like that was a little over the line as competitive imagery (i.e. Cannibals, Serial Killers, etc.).
Having rules against established nicknames is the result of politicians and those at universities believing they know better than anyone what is or isn't good for us. Instead of letting those changes occur as necessary due to changes in overall opinion they waste time pushing meaningless societal issues. In the end the indians have all sorts of problems within their own people that they continue to blame on others. I saw in yesterday's newspaper the indians are now attempting a lawsuit against brewing companies and retail stores that sell beer. Wow! Really? Somehow taking away indian nicknames* is going to make this all better.
Footnote*: Except OK if the tribe is bought off like Seminoles and Chippewas as then the name is not hostile and abusive to indians. What a screwed up society we live in.

[NorthernBison]

Actually it's politics that really started this whole mess.........its called political correctness. I might agree, teams with names like Scalpers should have been encouraged to change their name, not due to hurting perception of indians as most people are smarter than that, but only because a name like that was a little over the line as competitive imagery (i.e. Cannibals, Serial Killers, etc.).
Having rules against established nicknames is the result of politicians and those at universities believing they know better than anyone what is or isn't good for us. Instead of letting those changes occur as necessary due to changes in overall opinion they waste time pushing meaningless societal issues. In the end the indians have all sorts of problems within their own people that they continue to blame on others. I saw in yesterday's newspaper the indians are now attempting a lawsuit against brewing companies and retail stores that sell beer. Wow! Really? Somehow taking away indian nicknames* is going to make this all better.
Footnote: Except OK if the tribe is bought off like Seminoles and Chippewas as then the name is not hostile and abusive to indians. What a screwed up society we live in.

I agree with your general sentiment on the issue. The bolded part above makes me ROFL because you just know that UND was NEVER EVER EVER going to change without a drastic push.

The Standing Rock Tribal Council officially demanded that UND cease using the nickname about 20 years ago and they have never backed off it. That's probably the one single thing I cannot get past in this whole fiasco. All the volumes of crap that have been said and written cannot overcome that.

[SDbison]

I agree with your general sentiment on the issue. The bolded part above makes me ROFL because you just know that UND was NEVER EVER EVER going to change without a drastic push.

The Standing Rock Tribal Council officially demanded that UND cease using the nickname about 20 years ago and they have never backed off it. That's probably the one single thing I cannot get past in this whole fiasco. All the volumes of crap that have been said and written cannot overcome that.
Yeah, 5 indians in charge of their tribe that resides in the State of North Dakota which is in the United States of America should have power over everyone else. Sorry most people WON'T agree with that kind of decision making authority. Somehow you twisted my post into your opinion. The Leadership at the NCAA and in the Standing Rock Tribe are the ones who are screwed up and demand things that society as a whole could care less about yet shouldn't change without a vote.

[Tatanka]

The Standing Rock Tribal Council officially demanded that UND cease using the nickname about 20 years ago and they have never backed off it. That's probably the one single thing I cannot get past in this whole fiasco. All the volumes of crap that have been said and written cannot overcome that.

^^^^^TRUTH^^^^^

Not one person in the nickname cabal have been able to explain this away in a rational fashion, I'd love to see someone attempt it:

REGULAR TRIBAL COUNCIL MEETING FOLLOW-UP

MEETING DATE: December 2, 1998 PAGE: 27

...
#60 MOTION WAS MADE BY JESSE TAKEN ALIVE, SECONDED BY DEAN BEAR RIBS, TO APPROVE THAT THE STANDING ROCK SIOUX TRIBAL COUNCIL APPROVES OF SUBMISSION OF LEGISLATION TO THE NORTH DAKOTA STATE GOVERNMENT OPPOSING THE USE OF AMERICAN INDIAN MASCOTS AND MONIKERS BY UNIVERSITY'S AND INSTITUTIONS OF HIGHER EDUCATION IN NORTH DAKOTA SUCH LEGISLATION WILL BE CONSISTENT WITH PREVIOUS ACTIONS TAKEN BY THE STANDING ROCK TRIBAL COUNCIL.

ROLL CALL VOTE: MURPHY, C. - EXCUSED
ARCHAMBAULT, D. E. KEEPSEAGLE, J. YES
BAILEY, V. E. LONG CHASE, F. YES
BEAR RIBS, D. YES MCLAUGHLIN, E. YES
BROWN OTTER, D. YES SEE WALKER, R. YES
CORDOVA, R. YES STRONG HEART, J. YES
DEFENDER, P. YES TAKEN ALIVE, J. YES
GATES, R. E. TWO BEARS, S. YES
IRON, T. N.V. WHITE, R. YES

VOTE: YES - 12 NO - 0 NOT VOTING - 1 MOTION CARRIED. 4 - EXCUSED RESOLUTION NO. 078-98

WHEREAS, the Standing Rock Sioux Tribe is an unincorporated Tribe of Indians, having accepted the Indian Reorganization Act of June 18, 1934, with the exception of Article 16; and the recognized governing body of the Tribe is known as the Standing Rock Sioux Tribal Council; and

WHEREAS the Standing Rock Sioux Tribe had issued Resolution No. 356-92 to demand that the University of North Dakota discontinue the use of the name and mascot of the "Fighting Sioux"; and

WHEREAS, the University Administration has stated in the past that such actions, like the racially insensitive ones of October 24, 1992, will not be tolerated on campus; and

WHEREAS the University is sending a Dual Message to the students of UND, by attempting to provide a quality education for its students, but subjects indigenous students, namely those of the Lakota/Dakota Peoples of North America, to continued racial actions, by not changing its "Sioux" and "Fighting Sioux" nicknames; and

NOW THEREFORE LET IT BE RESOLVED, the undersigned Standing Rock Sioux Tribal Council hereby reaffirms the Resolution of December 3, 1992, specifically that the University of North Dakota should discontinue the use of the "Fighting Sioux" nickname.

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that the foregoing resolution shall be effective on this date and shall remain in full force effect thereafter. BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that the Chairman and the Secretary of the Tribal Council are hereby authorized and instructed to sign this resolution for and on behalf of the Standing Rock Sioux Tribe.

CERTIFICATION

We, the undersigned, Chairman and Secretary of the Tribal Council of the Standing Rock Sioux Tribe, hereby certify that the Tribal Council is composed of (17) members, of whom 16 constituting a quorum, were present at a meeting thereof, duly and regularly called, noticed, convened and held on the 11th day of FEBRUARY, 1998, and that the foregoing resolution was duly adopted by the affirmative vote of 10 members, with 0 opposing, and with 6 not voting. THE CHAIRMAN'S VOTE IS NOT REQUIRED EXCEPT IN CASE OF A TIE.

Dated this 11th day of FEBRUARY, 1998.

ATTEST:
Charles W. Murphy, Chairman
Standing Rock Sioux Tribe

Elaine MacLaughlin, Secretary
Standing Rock Sioux Tribe

WHEREAS, the Standing Rock Sioux Tribe is an unincorporated Tribe of Indians, having accepted the Indian Reorganization Act of June 18, 1934, with the exception of Article 16; and the recognized governing body of the Tribe is known as the Standing Rock Sioux Tribal Council; and

WHEREAS, the racially insensitive events of October 24, 1992, at the Homecoming Parade, are not isolated events, but rather an example of what Native Students at UND must endure while attempting to gain an education at the University, and

WHEREAS, the University Administration has stated in the past that such actions, like the racially insensitive ones of October 24, 1992, will not be tolerated on campus; and

WHEREAS, the University's continued use of the "Fighting Sioux" nickname places Native Students in the position of being mascots and subjects those students to such racially insensitive actions, and

WHEREAS, the University is sending a Dual Message to the students of UND,

NOW THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED, the undersigned feel that the University of North Dakota should discontinue the use of the "Fighting Sioux" nickname. The undersigned further believe that the President of the University has the authority to discontinue the use of that nickname.

CERTIFICATION

We, the undersigned, Chairman and Secretary of the Tribal Council of the Standing Rock Sioux Tribe, hereby certify that the Tribal Council is composed of (17) members, of whom 16 constituting a quorum, were present at a meeting thereof, duly and regularly called, noticed, convened and held on the 3rd day of December, 1992, and that the foregoing resolution was duly adopted by the affirmative vote of 9 members, with 4 members voting, and 1 opposing. The Chairman's vote is not required except in case of a tie.

Dated this 3rd day of December, 1992.

ATTEST:
Charles W. Murphy, Chairman
Standing Rock Sioux Tribe

Elaine MacLaughlin, Secretary
Standing Rock Sioux Tribe

[SDbison]

^^^^^TRUTH^^^^^

Not one person in the nickname cabal have been able to explain this away in a rational fashion, I'd love to see someone attempt it:
So what?........they own the name as much as I and 100 million other people of Norwegian heritage own the Viking name. Just because they sent a letter doesn't make it so. Many clubs, organizations, cities, townships, states send letters demanding changes by other entities each year. DOESN"T MAKE THEIR OPINION RIGHT OR ENFORCABLE!
I despise UND as much or more than most of you, but siding with more bogus rules and government control is just wrong. Sad that more and more American freedoms take a back seat to this kind of mamby pamby bullshit.

[NorthernBison]

Yeah, 5 indians in charge of their tribe that resides in the State of North Dakota which is in the United States of America should have power over everyone else. Sorry most people WON'T agree with that kind of decision making authority. Somehow you twisted my post into your opinion. The Leadership at the NCAA and in the Standing Rock Tribe are the ones who are screwed up and demand things that society as a whole could care less about yet shouldn't change without a vote.

I should have put my last paragraph in a different post. My apologies.

OTOH, maybe you should do some research on the history of the plains tribes. Tribal decisions about policy have never been up to a vote. The Council of Elders makes decisions for the tribe. I have no gripe with how Standing Rock operates. You vote for who you want to represent you and you live with their decisions. Vote them out if they prove themselves to be unfit.

BTW, Archie Fool Bear ran for election to the Tribal Council on a platform of wanting to advance the Nickname issue and get a vote. The voters of the Tribe overwhelmingly voted AGAINST him. That speaks loudly to me regarding the "support" for the nickname on SR.

[NorthernBison]

So what?........they own the name as much as I and 100 million other people of Norwegian heritage own the Viking name. Just because they sent a letter doesn't make it so. Many clubs, organizations, cities, townships, states send letters demanding changes by other entities each year. DOESN"T MAKE THEIR OPINION RIGHT OR ENFORCABLE!
I despise UND as much or more than most of you, but siding with more bogus rules and government control is just wrong. Sad that more and more American freedoms take a back seat to this kind of mamby pamby bullshit.

The NCAA is NOT the Government. It is a CLUB and membership is VOLUNTARY.

The golf course I am a member of requires me to wear a shirt. How dare they.

[Tatanka]

So what?........they own the name as much as I and 100 million other people of Norwegian heritage own the Viking name. Just because they sent a letter doesn't make it so. Many clubs, organizations, cities, townships, states send letters demanding changes by other entities each year. DOESN"T MAKE THEIR OPINION RIGHT OR ENFORCABLE!
I despise UND as much or more than most of you, but siding with more bogus rules and government control is just wrong. Sad that more and more American freedoms take a back seat to this kind of mamby pamby bullshit.
I understand what you're saying, and generally agree with the sentiment. I respectfully disagree with your position here though.

[SDbison]

The NCAA is NOT the Government. It is a CLUB and membership is VOLUNTARY.

The golf course I am a member of requires me to wear a shirt. How dare they.
Not a very good analogy as a golf course is much much smaller and there are thousands of golf courses across the US. Some require you wear a suit jacket on the premises.
You won't find me there since there are plenty of other options.

[SDbison]

I understand what you're saying, and generally agree with the sentiment. I respectfully disagree with your position here though.
Mostly because you dislike UND or you favor more controls on society. Really, does this stupid declaration by the NCAA make society better, improve your childrens lives? Hostile and abusive nicknames will still exist with or without the Sioux........Seminoles and Chippewas. Funny how some things are OK if enough money is dropped.

[SDbison]

The NCAA is NOT the Government. It is a CLUB and membership is VOLUNTARY.

The golf course I am a member of requires me to wear a shirt. How dare they. And I also highly doubt the NCAA considers itself a club. By its own name its an association........one that sucks at regulating its membership.

[NorthernBison]

Not a very good analogy as a golf course is much much smaller and there are thousands of golf courses across the US. Some require you wear a suit jacket on the premises.
You won't find me there since there are plenty of other options.

I hate analogies because they direct the discussion to the analogy rather than the subject at hand.

This ground has been plowed for more than a decade and it still comes down to the NCAA, as an organization, making a decision to LISTEN to the objections of tribes regarding the use of nicknames, mascots, and logos. BTW, they also agreed to listen to tribes who expressed support for the use (FSU, CMU, etc).

Bottom line regarding the NCAA? They refuse to overrule an objection by SR in favor of support expressed by SL. That's PC. I'm sorry if you expect something different from the NCAA. You won't find too many organizations more PC than this one run by University Presidents.

[1998braves64]

BTW, Archie Fool Bear ran for election to the Tribal Council on a platform of wanting to advance the Nickname issue and get a vote. The voters of the Tribe overwhelmingly voted AGAINST him. That speaks loudly to me regarding the "support" for the nickname on SR.

Have you ever followed Tribal elections closely though? You think the election for President is mild compared to the crap that gets flung around in a tribal election... by family members no less, it gets messy because many of the people involved know each other personally, tribal councils can be extremely corrupt and if they can benefit their family members, their family members aren't going to vote them out, it rarely folds on something as important as UND nickname issue. If they're so unhappy with UND using Sioux nickname then they should ban their tribal members from going to UND would send a bigger message since Tribal Council holds all power on tribes.

[NorthernBison]

Have you ever followed Tribal elections closely though? You think the election for President is mild compared to the crap that gets flung around in a tribal election... by family members no less, it gets messy because many of the people involved know each other personally, tribal councils can be extremely corrupt and if they can benefit their family members, their family members aren't going to vote them out, it rarely folds on something as important as UND nickname issue. If they're so unhappy with UND using Sioux nickname then they should ban their tribal members from going to UND would send a bigger message since Tribal Council holds all power on tribes.

I've been around Reservations my entire life. You are 100% correct. The absolute power wielded by the Tribal Government is exactly why the elections are so "third world like". Yet, they are Sovereign Nations and run things they way they have done so for generations.

You've hit on precisely why I have ZERO respect for people like Earl Strinden and the cabal at UND. They knew the key to getting acceptance of the nickname and logo. They were well aware of how to do it for the last 40 years and they were too arrogant and pompous (and yes RACIST) to get it done. F them now. They get no sympathy from me.

[1998braves64]

Agreed that would be the only thing that UND hugely dropped the ball is why they didn't involve themselves when it first started becoming an "political" issue (at latest in 92 when this crap hit the fan to make them pass the resolution), they did everything on campus to try to appease the Sioux but nothing off campus. Then even after the "aggreement" with NCAA why the heck did the nickname supports wait until they're retiring the name to do anything about it this should have been taking place 3-4 years ago (AT LATEST they could have done it 20 years ago) rather than now. Obvious answer is they were too arrogant to think that UND admin would actually follow through with retiring the name. But it makes for an interesting train wreck, and I'm curious to see how it turns out now since we've gotten ourselves in this far right?! :)

[SDbison]

To close my comments on this topic, personally I could give a rip what happens to UND regarding this stupid issue that shouldn't have been an issue in the first place. On principle I don't like people sticking their business in places they don't belong. I also, don't agree with political correctness and this issue reeks of it. If the tribe had some legal ownership of the name they could have taken it to the courts a long time ago. And since they won't even let people in their tribe vote I have no respect for their system. So sad that today less than 10% of the population of this country can somehow get their way imposed on the other 90% for something that is not imperative for the advancement of society. Things like women being able to vote and civil rights were very worthy changes. This is just medling for the sake of feel good politics. Our damn politicians can't close the porous borders to foreigners who are coming here and staying illegally even though 80% of the US population wants it done. Now that is an issue.

[Tatanka]

Mostly because you dislike UND or you favor more controls on society. Really, does this stupid declaration by the NCAA make society better, improve your childrens lives? Hostile and abusive nicknames will still exist with or without the Sioux........Seminoles and Chippewas. Funny how some things are OK if enough money is dropped.

Let's discuss further next time we see each other. Not worth it in this forum, too many things can get misinterpreted in written form.

[Twentysix]

To close my comments on this topic, personally I could give a rip what happens to UND regarding this stupid issue that shouldn't have been an issue in the first place. On principle I don't like people sticking their business in places they don't belong. I also, don't agree with political correctness and this issue reeks of it. If the tribe had some legal ownership of the name they could have taken it to the courts a long time ago. And since they won't even let people in their tribe vote I have no respect for their system. So sad that today less than 10% of the population of this country can somehow get their way imposed on the other 90% for something that is not imperative for the advancement of society. Things like women being able to vote and civil rights were very worthy changes. This is just medling for the sake of feel good politics. Our damn politicians can't close the porous borders to foreigners who are coming here and staying illegally even though 80% of the US population wants it done. Now that is an issue.

I feel like your statistics are made up and based solely on how you feel others think....cause you think others agree with you. Seems like pretty clear cut cognitive bias.

[tjbison]

I vote yes, and also hope this is the final UND thread on here, this AM I hit new posts and 7 that came up involved und

[SDbison]

Twentysix, the only stat referred to is the one about the border situation. The other was not a stat but rather just to show how minorities bitch about picky little things and seem too often get their way. No real measurables. BTW, I am not far off on various polls regarding illegal immigration. Since you seem so anxious to discredit my opinion its clear you can spew a bunch of bullshit.

[Twentysix]

Twentysix, the only stat referred to is the one about the border situation. The other was not a stat but rather just to show how minorities bitch about picky little things and seem too often get their way. No real measurables. BTW, I am not far off on various polls regarding illegal immigration. Since you seem so anxious to discredit my opinion its clear you can spew a bunch of bullshit.

If you want to go pick fruit for 12 bucks a day in texas and california, be my guest. To say that 280 million americans think the border is a problem is to exaggerate. No person that even makes minimum wage would live in a field and work 16 hour days for way under minimum wage.

You exhibited a really common social bias, I pointed it out. Go ahead and be furious.

[99Bison]

I voted no for the sake of sanity. If people really want the bs partisan politics going on in the state to someday be better someones got to start it :)

[rutlandbison]

Who cares.

[Twentysix]

I voted no for the sake of sanity. If people really want the bs partisan politics going on in the state to someday be better someones got to start it :)

Agreed, I want them to fail, but voting yes in this is ridiculous.

[BlueBisonRock]

I am in as a no vote. There is a karma in these actions that does come back and bite ya in the ass.

[Mr. Burgundy]

The average fan is the biggest problem for UND. They won't know about how bad it is going to be....and Tim O'Keefe's latest comments are years too late. They have flopped back and fourth too many times. They are going to get average Joe Fan who just wants the logo on their sweatpants while in Mandan.....to vote for them and bury them. I actually feel bad for Faison, who has been the only person who has been consistent. But he also schedule SD School of the Mines, next year, so I hope he ends up hurting the program more with that decision than the helpless feeling he has going against Franky Burgraf and the "other" Sean Johnson who stated on the radio it doesn't matter if they host home games or not. You really can't make it up.

[Bisonguy]

The average fan is the biggest problem for UND. They won't know about how bad it is going to be....and Tim O'Keefe's latest comments are years too late. They have flopped back and fourth too many times. They are going to get average Joe Fan who just wants the logo on their sweatpants while in Mandan.....to vote for them and bury them. I actually feel bad for Faison, who has been the only person who has been consistent. But he also schedule SD School of the Mines, next year, so I hope he ends up hurting the program more with that decision than the helpless feeling he has going against Franky Burgraf and the "other" Sean Johnson who stated on the radio it doesn't matter if they host home games or not. You really can't make it up.

Yeah, it's pretty telling that on the poll on the Forum website those voting for keeping the nickname outnumbered those for dropping the nickname 51% to 45%. And that was in response to an opinion piece that clearly laid out what a yes vote could bring to teh UND. Unless the SBOHE can get the law ruled as unconstitutional, they're screwed.

[Hammersmith]

Yeah, it's pretty telling that on the poll on the Forum website those voting for keeping the nickname outnumbered those for dropping the nickname 51% to 45%. And that was in response to an opinion piece that clearly laid out what a yes vote could bring to teh UND. Unless the SBOHE can get the law ruled as unconstitutional, they're screwed for about a year and a half.
FYP. I didn't know until this week that the legislature can override the upcoming vote with a 2/3 majority in both houses. They were very close to that when they repealed the law in the special session. If all else fails, the law can go away again the next time the legislature meets. I'm not sure if the 2/3 rule also works on constitutional amendments. Of course, if the Big Sky boots them before the legislature acts, it won't help UND all that much.

[80ALUM]

The majority of the alumni I have spoken to are in favor of a name change. They do not want the nickname to continue to hurt the athletic department. Most of those I have asked who want to keep the nickname did not even attend UND.

[SeattleBison]

I voted yes because I'm invested heavily in popcorn futures... :rofl:

[DjKyRo]

FYP. I didn't know until this week that the legislature can override the upcoming vote with a 2/3 majority in both houses. They were very close to that when they repealed the law in the special session. If all else fails, the law can go away again the next time the legislature meets. I'm not sure if the 2/3 rule also works on constitutional amendments. Of course, if the Big Sky boots them before the legislature acts, it won't help UND all that much.

The question is, can UND make it that long with the nickname in the Big Sky? If the Sky kicks them out, do they burn that bridge by booting them or is it a "get back to us when you get your shit together" type thing?

[NDSU1980]

The question is, can UND make it that long with the nickname in the Big Sky? If the Sky kicks them out, do they burn that bridge by booting them or is it a "get back to us when you get your shit together" type thing?
If they kick them out, it's going to be more like "Get back to us when you and a travel partner have moved 800 miles closer to our natural footprint.

[bisonmike2]

The majority of the alumni I have spoken to are in favor of a name change. They do not want the nickname to continue to hurt the athletic department. Most of those I have asked who want to keep the nickname did not even attend UND.

That's kind of what I was thinking too. Walmart wolverines seem to be leading the charge. Maybe we could call them walmart Sioux, but that doesn't illiterate well. Too bad there isn't more Shopko's in ND. Shopko Suzies has a nice ring.

[reformedUNDfan]

at this point, I'm bitter to the point were I think I will vote yes, just for the shitstorm. Plus it will finally kill the nickname once and for all, and then we can join the summit in 2016.

[cbline]

at this point, I'm bitter to the point were I think I will vote yes, just for the shitstorm. Plus it will finally kill the nickname once and for all, and then we can join the summit in 2016.

Wait a minute. I don't follow your logic. You will vote "yes" to KEEP the nickname, but then in the next sentence you say "it will finally kill the nickname". What's up with that?

[Tatanka]

Wait a minute. I don't follow your logic. You will vote "yes" to KEEP the nickname, but then in the next sentence you say "it will finally kill the nickname". What's up with that?

Clearly, the reformation process is not yet complete.

[Civil06]

Wait a minute. I don't follow your logic. You will vote "yes" to KEEP the nickname, but then in the next sentence you say "it will finally kill the nickname". What's up with that?

Reformed, correct me if I'm wrong, but you're saying that the yes vote will keep the name for awhile, but once UND gets booted from the BS and suffers badly, the name will finally be retired and UND will join the Summit with a new moniker?? Ouch, that's a tough route to take (although as logical as everything else that's transpired in the last year).

[aces1180]

Reformed, correct me if I'm wrong, but you're saying that the yes vote will keep the name for awhile, but once UND gets booted from the BS and suffers badly, the name will finally be retired and UND will join the Summit with a new moniker?? Ouch, that's a tough route to take (although as logical as everything else that's transpired in the last year).

UND will not be in the Summit unless NDSU is no longer a part of it...Mark it down.

Plus, they burned that bridge when they cancelled their site visit in 2010.

[Tatanka]

UND will not be in the Summit unless NDSU is no longer a part of it...Mark it down.

Plus, they burned that bridge when they cancelled their site visit in 2010.

http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/funny-pictures-cat-grabs-pink-crab-toy.jpg

NDSU would be under unspeakable political pressure in such a scenario to help out their little sister.

[TransAmBison]

UND will not be in the Summit unless NDSU is no longer a part of it...Mark it down.

Plus, they burned that bridge when they cancelled their site visit in 2010.
They don't need bridges. They walk on water*.















*Which may be the reason they sometimes get frostbitten feet. :hide:

[WYOBISONMAN]

Dump the name. It is making the whole damn state look stupid.

[Bison bison]

UND is a natural fit for the Summit.

However, I don't see them becoming a member until the nickname issue completely over and done with which IMHO is no sooner than January 1, 2020.

[The_Sicatoka]

Dump the name. It is making the whole damn state look stupid.

It's sad to me that folks here (Bisonville) have a better grasp of that reality right now.

[The_Sicatoka]

... until the nickname issue completely over and done with which IMHO is no sooner than January 1, 2020.

You really think the lunacy from some quarters will allow this to end that soon? :facepalm:

[Tatanka]

You really think the lunacy from some quarters will allow this to end that soon? :facepalm:

Not for a fraction of a second.

[NDSUstudent]

UND will not be in the Summit unless NDSU is no longer a part of it...Mark it down.

Plus, they burned that bridge when they cancelled their site visit in 2010.

If the Big Sky booted them, UND would be in the Summit the second they got off the NCAA sanction list.

[EndZoneQB]

It's sad to me that folks here (Bisonville) have a better grasp of that reality right now.

I actually feel bad for you(and the other level-headed Sioux fans I know) because it is not driven by the hardcores at all.


If the Big Sky booted them, UND would be in the Summit the second they got off the NCAA sanction list.

Buttfootball?

[NorthernBison]

You really think the lunacy from some quarters will allow this to end that soon? :facepalm:

The arguments and bad blood will last for generations. The living example is Dartmouth.

As for the "issue" being settled? I would interpret that to mean the real potential of either keeping the nickname or bringing it back. Since State Law currently requires it not be "replaced" with a new one until 2015, I would expect efforts to keep it to continue until then.

That's possibly a real problem because I sense the Big Sky losing its patience with all the drama and conflict. Seriously, unless ALL decision-makers on this act to make it clear that retirement is decided and will not and cannot be reconsidered, the loonies will not stop. There is no more leeway for the Administration and the SBoHE to be wishy washy.

Kelley should literally scream STOP. And then everybody that cares about UND Athletics should have his back. Anything less and you deserve what you get after that.

[344Johnson]

I am going to vote yes. Because if a group of people are unwilling to help themselves, I see no reason for me to help them either.

[TransAmBison]

I actually feel bad for you(and the other level-headed Sioux fans I know)You know many mythical creatures?

[Tatanka]

There were plenty of opportunities for the level-headed and clearly-thinking to put an early end to this metacluster™. None were taken.

This is what we might call a "learning experience". And the taxpayers continue to foot the bill.

[bisonmike2]

There were plenty of opportunities for the level-headed and clearly-thinking to put an early end to this metacluster™. None were taken.

This is what we might call a "learning experience". And the taxpayers continue to foot the bill.

I happen to know that Rob Port is a defender of freedom and he's looking out for the taxpayers. He'll be all over this misuse of funds in no time.

[DjKyRo]

I happen to know that Rob Port is a defender of freedom and he's looking about for the taxpayers. He'll be all over this misuse of funds in no time.

I think you just divided by zero.

[Tatanka]

I happen to know that Rob Port is a defender of freedom and he's looking about for the taxpayers. He'll be all over this misuse of funds in no time.

There is not an appropriate shade of purple to properly represent that statement.

[aces1180]

I happen to know that Rob Port is a defender of freedom and he's looking about for the taxpayers. He'll be all over this misuse of funds in no time.

He's the voice of a new generation.

Save the Fighting Sioux!

Apple Pie! Baseball! Chevrolet! America!

[cbline]

The arguments and bad blood will last for generations. The living example is Dartmouth.

As for the "issue" being settled? I would interpret that to mean the real potential of either keeping the nickname or bringing it back. Since State Law currently requires it not be "replaced" with a new one until 2015, I would expect efforts to keep it to continue until then.

That's possibly a real problem because I sense the Big Sky losing its patience with all the drama and conflict. Seriously, unless ALL decision-makers on this act to make it clear that retirement is decided and will not and cannot be reconsidered, the loonies will not stop. There is no more leeway for the Administration and the SBoHE to be wishy washy.

Kelley should literally scream STOP. And then everybody that cares about UND Athletics should have his back. Anything less and you deserve what you get after that.

Herein lies the problem. No matter what the rational and thoughtful folks do, the loonies will likely rise to every occasion and f*ck things up. As was said on the radio this morning, "Unfortunately intelligent people have doubts, and stupid people have confidence".

[TransAmBison]

Herein lies the problem. No matter what the rational and thoughtful folks do, the loonies will likely rise to every occasion and f*ck things up. As was said on the radio this morning, "Unfortunately intelligent people have doubts, and stupid people have confidence".I think you may have touched upon something.* It is the canadian influence that everything trickles down to. Buthockey!!!!!!!!!!








*Obligatory twss

[NDSUstudent]

Buttfootball?

If UND is kicked out of the Big Sky the school may as well drop football.

[TransAmBison]

If UND is kicked out of the Big Sky the school may as well drop football.
They dropped football when Lennon escaped. I dare you to prove otherwise.

[Bison03]

UND is a natural fit for the DAC.

Fixed it for you.
http://bhsuathletics.com/images/logos/DAC_Logo_Web_rotator.jpg

[aces1180]

Fixed it for you.
http://bhsuathletics.com/images/logos/DAC_Logo_Web_rotator.jpg

I think the DAC is too good for them.

The Mon-Dak would be a good choice.

http://www.mondak.org/

[CAS4127]

Fixed it for you.
http://bhsuathletics.com/images/logos/DAC_Logo_Web_rotator.jpg

Well, there was a nickname supporter who called into Gaptooth's show this morning and stated UND should keep the nickname, and that there was nothing wrong with playing VCSU, Mayville State, U of Mary, Minot State, etc., but, get this, he then finished with-->"provided the state provides monies to finance hockey for all of these in-state schools"!!:facepalm:

[roadwarrior]

Well, there was a nickname supporter who called into Gaptooth's show this morning and stated UND should keep the nickname, and that there was nothing wrong with playing VCSU, Mayville State, U of Mary, Minot State, etc., but, get this, he then finished with-->"provided the state provides monies to finance hockey for all of these in-state schools"!!:facepalm:

Sometimes I wonder how society manages to function at all.

[Bison03]

Well, there was a nickname supporter who called into Gaptooth's show this morning and stated UND should keep the nickname, and that there was nothing wrong with playing VCSU, Mayville State, U of Mary, Minot State, etc., but, get this, he then finished with-->"provided the state provides monies to finance hockey for all of these in-state schools"!!:facepalm:

For some die hard und hockey fans, a scenario that keeps the fighting sioux name with them safely in the NCHC and the rest of the athletics playing in the NAIA would be a perfectly acceptable option.

[344Johnson]

Perhaps we should analyze what we would give up to remain in the MVFC for football.

[CAS4127]

Perhaps we should analyze what we would give up to remain in the MVFC for football.

Our nickname-->next question please......

[reformedUNDfan]

Reformed, correct me if I'm wrong, but you're saying that the yes vote will keep the name for awhile, but once UND gets booted from the BS and suffers badly, the name will finally be retired and UND will join the Summit with a new moniker?? Ouch, that's a tough route to take (although as logical as everything else that's transpired in the last year).

that is the road i think will be taken. I was pretty frustrated when the summit sight visit was cancelled, und/ndsu/sdsu/usd/uno/umkc makes for a very coherent core to the conference, and Western Illinois and the Indiana schools fit in reasonably well. It's not really the path that I want to happen, just the best path in a bad situation. Joining the bigsky was stupid beyond belief.

If this does happen, I would hope to god it would finally discredit the nickname supporters.

[Bisonguy]

Well, there was a nickname supporter who called into Gaptooth's show this morning and stated UND should keep the nickname, and that there was nothing wrong with playing VCSU, Mayville State, U of Mary, Minot State, etc., but, get this, he then finished with-->"provided the state provides monies to finance hockey for all of these in-state schools"!!:facepalm:

Pretty sure that was Tim O'Keefe and he was being facetious. He must not have been using teh purple font.

[The_Sicatoka]

Well, there was a nickname supporter who called into Gaptooth's show this morning and stated UND should keep the nickname, and that there was nothing wrong with playing VCSU, Mayville State, U of Mary, Minot State, etc., but, get this, he then finished with-->"provided the state provides monies to finance hockey for all of these in-state schools"!!:facepalm:

Wow. Just ... wow. That deserves ... http://images.sodahead.com/profiles/0/0/2/3/5/6/3/0/5/Facepalm-53110262622.jpeg

[abc123]

that is the road i think will be taken. I was pretty frustrated when the summit sight visit was cancelled, und/ndsu/sdsu/usd/uno/umkc makes for a very coherent core to the conference, and Western Illinois and the Indiana schools fit in reasonably well. It's not really the path that I want to happen, just the best path in a bad situation. Joining the bigsky was stupid beyond belief.

If this does happen, I would hope to god it would finally discredit the nickname supporters.

Yeah, what was UND thinking joining the only conference option they had that gave their football team a home. :facepalm:

[Bison bison]

this discussion is moot given that UND is going to join the Northern Sun in 2013.

[The_Sicatoka]

this discussion is moot given that UND is going to join the Northern Sun in 2013.

Who you kiddin'. After they see the kudos the NCAA gives the Big Sky, the Northern Sun will institute a similar policy.

[MNLonghorn10]

this is kinda entertaining if you go down from a few days ago when they talk nickname

http://www.facebook.com/UNDathletics

FIGHT FOR THEN NAME! TAKE A STAND NORTH DAKOTA VS THE NCAA! IN 2013 WHEN WE DONT HAVE A SCHEDULE, TEAMS LINING UP TO PLAY US, A CONFERENCE ETC..WHO CARES! WE STOOD UP FOR THE LOGO AND NOW EVERYTHING IS DEAD!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMycO6ZG0hM&feature=related

[MNLonghorn10]

Sometimes I wonder how society manages to function at all.
im really beginning to wonder how north dakota has a budget surplus.

[99Bison]

that is the road i think will be taken. I was pretty frustrated when the summit sight visit was cancelled, und/ndsu/sdsu/usd/uno/umkc makes for a very coherent core to the conference, and Western Illinois and the Indiana schools fit in reasonably well. It's not really the path that I want to happen, just the best path in a bad situation. Joining the bigsky was stupid beyond belief.

If this does happen, I would hope to god it would finally discredit the nickname supporters.

yea, that does seem like the route... they can just drop football like UNO then too.

[99Bison]

im really beginning to wonder how north dakota has a budget surplus.

Easy, just stick it under a rock... no literally.

[BisoninNWMN]

If you want to go pick fruit for 12 bucks a day in texas and california, be my guest. To say that 280 million americans think the border is a problem is to exaggerate. No person that even makes minimum wage would live in a field and work 16 hour days for way under minimum wage.You exhibited a really common social bias, I pointed it out. Go ahead and be furious.


This is total bullsh**!!

Ag workers in CA, and they are mostly Latino, make at least minimum wage in CA and most times more. I am involved with the growers in CA and they tell me this firsthand.

Granted, probably 1/2 of them are illegal but it is not too hard for them to get a SS #.

LOL..they do not work 16 hr/day. The work they do is not hard IMO but no one else is willing to do it.

Your example is way off bud!

[Bison bison]

Well me, Cesar Chavez, Che Guevarra, and Tom Joad think you and your grower buddies can shove it up your a$$!


Attica! Attica! Attica! Attic!

[reformedUNDfan]

yea, that does seem like the route... they can just drop football like UNO then too.

I'm not sure many people at the school would notice.