This is the best explanation I have seen on the tickets.

[kab1one]

Interesting Theory, from SHSU board


Dr. OldKat wrote:I spoke to a guy today who has a job that REQUIRES him to go to many public venue events; concerts, athletic events, auto races etc. How sweet would something like that be?

He said that he thinks what is happening is that IF the ticket resellers (aka brokers) have big blocks of tickets that they are sitting on, they will dole them out a little bit at a time between now and a week to ten days before the game to build demand for them. He thinks that as we get closer and they release more and more tickets the price will come down. He is hoping that is the case, as he is a SHSU grad and is in the same boat as many of you … he couldn’t get through on Saturday either, so as of about 9:00 AM this morning he had no tickets.

Since the ticker resellers, if they really are in the middle of this, have been a source of irritation for the SHSU fans, (and now it seems Bison fans, too) I asked him if he knows why they are even allowed to exist. He said he thinks the venues and/or promoters really want the resellers in the middle, because it takes risk off of them. If Pizza Hut Park, for example, had to put this deal on without anyone coming in and buying big blocks of tickets they would be at risk of not selling enough tickets to cover their expenses. If they lost money on too many events they would simply not put them on anymore. He said in this case the NCAA probably guaranteed them so many tickets would be sold so in this case it is probably the NCAA that actually wants to see the resellers in the middle.

He said without the resellers, if the venue itself or the producer / promoter (NCAA, etc) had to make it on individual ticket sales only, the face value starting out would probably be double or triple what it is now. However there is a risk there, because if they price them too low and not enough people buy tickets they lose money on the deal. If they price them too high, they may chase people off and the same thing would happen. By PHP or the NCAA pre-selling 4, 5 or 6,000 or whatever to each school and selling what they could early through the internet they probably cover a good portion of their operating expenses, but probably haven’t made any real return on their capital investment (and stadiums, amphitheaters etc are not cheap to build). So they sell the big blocks of tickets to the resellers to have a guaranteed way of making enough money off of the event to service their capital debt.

The resellers have no capital debt to service, but they are totally at risk for the tickets that they are holding. If they don’t sell them they have to eat them. He said they want to create the impression that tickets are going to be hard to get in order to jack the prices up on the first ones they sell, so that they can recoup their investment quickly. Once they have made a certain percentage of their investment back they will start lowering prices to encourage more people to come in. Towards the last few days before the game he expects tickets to be back down to face or slightly above. He said he sees this scenario all the time, it is nothing new. The only thing that may make this situation unique is that PHP is not very big and SHSU is only a few hours drive away, so there may be enough demand to keep the prices high. He is betting that will not be the case, and since he is from the Dallas area he and his wife are planning a trip up for the game. If they get tickets they go to the game, otherwise they visit family. That is a good strategy for him, but doesn’t work for people not from the Dallas area.

[56BISON73]

Interesting Theory, from SHSU board


Dr. OldKat wrote:I spoke to a guy today who has a job that REQUIRES him to go to many public venue events; concerts, athletic events, auto races etc. How sweet would something like that be?

He said that he thinks what is happening is that IF the ticket resellers (aka brokers) have big blocks of tickets that they are sitting on, they will dole them out a little bit at a time between now and a week to ten days before the game to build demand for them. He thinks that as we get closer and they release more and more tickets the price will come down. He is hoping that is the case, as he is a SHSU grad and is in the same boat as many of you … he couldn’t get through on Saturday either, so as of about 9:00 AM this morning he had no tickets.

Since the ticker resellers, if they really are in the middle of this, have been a source of irritation for the SHSU fans, (and now it seems Bison fans, too) I asked him if he knows why they are even allowed to exist. He said he thinks the venues and/or promoters really want the resellers in the middle, because it takes risk off of them. If Pizza Hut Park, for example, had to put this deal on without anyone coming in and buying big blocks of tickets they would be at risk of not selling enough tickets to cover their expenses. If they lost money on too many events they would simply not put them on anymore. He said in this case the NCAA probably guaranteed them so many tickets would be sold so in this case it is probably the NCAA that actually wants to see the resellers in the middle.

He said without the resellers, if the venue itself or the producer / promoter (NCAA, etc) had to make it on individual ticket sales only, the face value starting out would probably be double or triple what it is now. However there is a risk there, because if they price them too low and not enough people buy tickets they lose money on the deal. If they price them too high, they may chase people off and the same thing would happen. By PHP or the NCAA pre-selling 4, 5 or 6,000 or whatever to each school and selling what they could early through the internet they probably cover a good portion of their operating expenses, but probably haven’t made any real return on their capital investment (and stadiums, amphitheaters etc are not cheap to build). So they sell the big blocks of tickets to the resellers to have a guaranteed way of making enough money off of the event to service their capital debt.

The resellers have no capital debt to service, but they are totally at risk for the tickets that they are holding. If they don’t sell them they have to eat them. He said they want to create the impression that tickets are going to be hard to get in order to jack the prices up on the first ones they sell, so that they can recoup their investment quickly. Once they have made a certain percentage of their investment back they will start lowering prices to encourage more people to come in. Towards the last few days before the game he expects tickets to be back down to face or slightly above. He said he sees this scenario all the time, it is nothing new. The only thing that may make this situation unique is that PHP is not very big and SHSU is only a few hours drive away, so there may be enough demand to keep the prices high. He is betting that will not be the case, and since he is from the Dallas area he and his wife are planning a trip up for the game. If they get tickets they go to the game, otherwise they visit family. That is a good strategy for him, but doesn’t work for people not from the Dallas area.

You are 100% correct. Its all about the money. The stadium is like a big bookie who then lays off all the bets to smaller bookies to lessen his exposure. The stadium doesnt give a shit who the tickets go to as long as they ALL get sold. Thats their job.

[Putz]

All of this could very well be true, but I still don't understand why the schools were allotted
such a relatively small number of tickets. I know that they probably have experience from
past years and came up with a reason for the allotted number. But why not let the schools
have something like 8000 each. If they aren't spoken for after a few days, then turn the
brokers loose on them.

[CHADSTAUS]

You are 100% correct. Its all about the money. The stadium is like a big bookie who then lays off all the bets to smaller bookies to lessen his exposure. The stadium doesnt give a shit who the tickets go to as long as they ALL get sold. Thats their job.

Ding,,,,,,,,,,

[TheBisonator]

It's the Cartman Method for creating demand. Only let 2 people in your amusement park per day until 1,000+ per day want to come in.

[JustinTyem]

Interesting Theory, from SHSU board


Dr. OldKat wrote:I spoke to a guy today who has a job that REQUIRES him to go to many public venue events; concerts, athletic events, auto races etc. How sweet would something like that be?

He said that he thinks what is happening is that IF the ticket resellers (aka brokers) have big blocks of tickets that they are sitting on, they will dole them out a little bit at a time between now and a week to ten days before the game to build demand for them. He thinks that as we get closer and they release more and more tickets the price will come down. He is hoping that is the case, as he is a SHSU grad and is in the same boat as many of you … he couldn’t get through on Saturday either, so as of about 9:00 AM this morning he had no tickets.

Since the ticker resellers, if they really are in the middle of this, have been a source of irritation for the SHSU fans, (and now it seems Bison fans, too) I asked him if he knows why they are even allowed to exist. He said he thinks the venues and/or promoters really want the resellers in the middle, because it takes risk off of them. If Pizza Hut Park, for example, had to put this deal on without anyone coming in and buying big blocks of tickets they would be at risk of not selling enough tickets to cover their expenses. If they lost money on too many events they would simply not put them on anymore. He said in this case the NCAA probably guaranteed them so many tickets would be sold so in this case it is probably the NCAA that actually wants to see the resellers in the middle.

He said without the resellers, if the venue itself or the producer / promoter (NCAA, etc) had to make it on individual ticket sales only, the face value starting out would probably be double or triple what it is now. However there is a risk there, because if they price them too low and not enough people buy tickets they lose money on the deal. If they price them too high, they may chase people off and the same thing would happen. By PHP or the NCAA pre-selling 4, 5 or 6,000 or whatever to each school and selling what they could early through the internet they probably cover a good portion of their operating expenses, but probably haven’t made any real return on their capital investment (and stadiums, amphitheaters etc are not cheap to build). So they sell the big blocks of tickets to the resellers to have a guaranteed way of making enough money off of the event to service their capital debt.

The resellers have no capital debt to service, but they are totally at risk for the tickets that they are holding. If they don’t sell them they have to eat them. He said they want to create the impression that tickets are going to be hard to get in order to jack the prices up on the first ones they sell, so that they can recoup their investment quickly. Once they have made a certain percentage of their investment back they will start lowering prices to encourage more people to come in. Towards the last few days before the game he expects tickets to be back down to face or slightly above. He said he sees this scenario all the time, it is nothing new. The only thing that may make this situation unique is that PHP is not very big and SHSU is only a few hours drive away, so there may be enough demand to keep the prices high. He is betting that will not be the case, and since he is from the Dallas area he and his wife are planning a trip up for the game. If they get tickets they go to the game, otherwise they visit family. That is a good strategy for him, but doesn’t work for people not from the Dallas area.Now thats the BEST ANSWER I have ever heard so far about the ticket issue. ThankYou Kab,This takes some ease to my mind and heart. Now,thats REP !!!!!!

[Twentysix]

All of this could very well be true, but I still don't understand why the schools were allotted
such a relatively small number of tickets. I know that they probably have experience from
past years and came up with a reason for the allotted number. But why not let the schools
have something like 8000 each. If they aren't spoken for after a few days, then turn the
brokers loose on them.

Because NDSU can get 12000 people to travel to texas doesn't mean other schools can. When both EWU+Delaware(Rich tradition and rich alumni)+locals only got that number to the stadium last year.

EWU would have shit the bed if they were on the hook for 8000 tickets.

Can you imagine stonybrook covering 8000 tickets?

Attendance to last years FCS championship 13,027

[IndyBison]

All of this could very well be true, but I still don't understand why the schools were allotted
such a relatively small number of tickets. I know that they probably have experience from
past years and came up with a reason for the allotted number. But why not let the schools
have something like 8000 each. If they aren't spoken for after a few days, then turn the
brokers loose on them.
Because the teams are responsible for their allotment whether or not they sell them all. If EWU had been given 8k and only sold 3k they would be on the hook for the other 5k. They could return them but would probably still be responsible if the NCAA couldn't sell them. The 4k number is probably based on past experience and this is an unusual year.

[ISXBISON]

It would be nice if the schools would have some say in what their allocations were.

[IndyBison]

Now thats the BEST ANSWER I have ever heard so far about the ticket issue. ThankYou Kab,This takes some ease to my mind and heart. Now,thats REP !!!!!!
It's a very long version of what I've been saying so I'm glad you like his version. Patience will pay off. I would be surprised if all those tickets are held by people planning to attend the game.

[kab1one]

Now thats the BEST ANSWER I have ever heard so far about the ticket issue. ThankYou Kab,This takes some ease to my mind and heart. Now,thats REP !!!!!!

If you were checking NCAA.com for tickets prior to the weekend. There were tickets available. The alotments for the schools would have already been accounted for. So at some point someone bought all the tickets. If you watch the next week or so, there will always be tickets available, so as some get bought, others will get posted. I just don't see the high price for these tickets. SHSU does not draw well. NDSU getting 10k to Dallas is easier said than done. Maybe I am wrong on this but, I fully expect tickets to be able as the game gets closer. I was fully expecting to travel, but I am to the point, I will get together with Fargo Fans, have a party here and say the money. That approach will start coming out more and more as people say screw it.

[IndyBison]

It would be nice if the schools would have some say in what their allocations were.
Allocations are set a long time before anyone knows who will be playing.

[squarepeg]

My theory is the game being on Saturday instead of Friday night like last year. For people leaving after work on Friday it's huge.

[ISXBISON]

Allocations are set a long time before anyone knows who will be playing.

You'd think there would be some ability to adjust and negotiate that number after the teams are set.

[Putz]

You'd think there would be some ability to adjust and negotiate that number after the teams are set.

This is what I was thinking. I can see that a school wouldn't want to be on the hook for several thousand extra tickets. But maybe they can come up with a way to adjust that number. Maybe it wouldn't be ideal, but the
process could definitely be improved.

[SamsRams]

It would be nice if the schools would have some say in what their allocations were.
this is so simple it's too easy for the ncaa to figure. Why not after the second rounds, let the teams bid on the number of tickets they want and even the price with minimum amount. I literally just got chills thinkin about GT bidding for 12k and getting them

I agree with most of the explanation but I still don't know a single person or have seen for sale a single seat between the 40's, nor did I ever see any for sale in october when I was looking. I have a strong feeling the ncaa saw the almost failure of last year and corporate sponsors saying give us more seats next year. I have a weird feeling there are gonna be over 1000 empty seats at the game

[IzzyFlexion]

On game day, there will be at least a dozen guys waving tickets over their heads yelling "need tickets.....tickets here!" These guys will look like they just crawled out of a cardboard shanty. They are paid commission by the ticket brokers to dump whatever tickets they didn't sell using the aforementioned pyramid type selling technique.
At that point buyers are in the driver's seat and as kickoff approaches, one can likely get a ticket for less than face value using grade school level negotiating skills.

[IndyBison]

You'd think there would be some ability to adjust and negotiate that number after the teams are set.
They would if there were any tickets left. But there weren't so that was not an option. I know some were added to our allocation early this week but it was a small amount. If the NCAA had 8k tickets remaining on Monday morning you can guarantee they would allocate as many to the teams as they would want.


this is so simple it's too easy for the ncaa to figure. Why not after the second rounds, let the teams bid on the number of tickets they want and even the price with minimum amount. I literally just got chills thinkin about GT bidding for 12k and getting them

I agree with most of the explanation but I still don't know a single person or have seen for sale a single seat between the 40's, nor did I ever see any for sale in october when I was looking. I have a strong feeling the ncaa saw the almost failure of last year and corporate sponsors saying give us more seats next year. I have a weird feeling there are gonna be over 1000 empty seats at the game
I believe the team allocations include seats between the 40s so that's probably why you don't see any. Our allotment is 101 to 107 which appears to start about the 40 and go past the end zone. I know some were available via the NCAA site prior because I know someone who got one.

This method works well for the NCAA in most cases. This year was a perfect storm with two teams with large followings. I'm still puzzled that so many were purchased prior to the semi-finals but maybe we have a lot of fans who got a lot of them and haven't said anything. I know someone who has 8 tickets in the end zone but they also have their name in the Bison allotment. If they get their allotment, their end zone seats will become available.

Patience.

[IndyBison]

On game day, there will be at least a dozen guys waving tickets over their heads yelling "need tickets.....tickets here!" These guys will look like they just crawled out of a cardboard shanty. They are paid commission by the ticket brokers to dump whatever tickets they didn't sell using the aforementioned pyramid type selling technique.
At that point buyers are in the driver's seat and as kickoff approaches, one can likely get a ticket for less than face value using grade school level negotiating skills.
You are 100% correct.

[THEsocalledfan]

You are 100% correct.

And the reason, I went "all in" on flights, hotel, etc. I refuse to buy any ticket more than $80. I will buy them outside the game if I have to.

[NDSU '96]

If you were checking NCAA.com for tickets prior to the weekend. There were tickets available. The alotments for the schools would have already been accounted for. So at some point someone bought all the tickets. If you watch the next week or so, there will always be tickets available, so as some get bought, others will get posted. I just don't see the high price for these tickets. SHSU does not draw well. NDSU getting 10k to Dallas is easier said than done. Maybe I am wrong on this but, I fully expect tickets to be able as the game gets closer. I was fully expecting to travel, but I am to the point, I will get together with Fargo Fans, have a party here and say the money. That approach will start coming out more and more as people say screw it.Sam doesn't normally draw well, but it's the title game and I'm sure there are more alumni in Dallas than Huntsville.

[4mcruenomore]

This is a shitty attitude:
"I was fully expecting to travel, but I am to the point, I will get together with Fargo Fans, have a party here and say the money. That approach will start coming out more and more as people say screw it."

You have 2 weeks left, man up and go like a big boy.

[kab1one]

This is a shitty attitude:
"I was fully expecting to travel, but I am to the point, I will get together with Fargo Fans, have a party here and say the money. That approach will start coming out more and more as people say screw it."

You have 2 weeks left, man up and go like a big boy.

No, I spend money like it is going out of style, but there are limits. I would just as soon give the business school a grand versus overpaying for a charter and or hotel in Dallas. I am not the only one thinking this way. We had a group for various reasons were going to charter a plane. And for what we are going to spend doing that with hotel, golf and strippers, we could found a scholarship. There are limites.

[Bison"FANatic"]

No, I spend money like it is going out of style, but there are limits. I would just as soon give the business school a grand versus overpaying for a charter and or hotel in Dallas. I am not the only one thinking this way. We had a group for various reasons were going to charter a plane. And for what we are going to spend doing that with hotel, golf and strippers, we could found a scholarship. There are limites.

Nothing wrong with that we need people back here to paint this town Green before and then After we win the Championship. Once they win all you guys just get a sober driver and your big flags(leave it alone:biggrin:) and start making laps around Fargo flying the Big Flags!!!!!:)

[katstrapper]

If you were checking NCAA.com for tickets prior to the weekend. There were tickets available. The alotments for the schools would have already been accounted for. So at some point someone bought all the tickets. If you watch the next week or so, there will always be tickets available, so as some get bought, others will get posted. I just don't see the high price for these tickets. SHSU does not draw well. NDSU getting 10k to Dallas is easier said than done. Maybe I am wrong on this but, I fully expect tickets to be able as the game gets closer. I was fully expecting to travel, but I am to the point, I will get together with Fargo Fans, have a party here and say the money. That approach will start coming out more and more as people say screw it.

SHSU had not drawn big crowds during the season, but did very well during the playoffs. The attendance announced by university were UNDERREPORTED by far. I have been at every home game this season and the crowds definitely got bigger. The Montana St and Montana games were big. Especially Montana on Friday night. They reported 12,900, but there was 15k in that stadium easy. I have only seen overflow crowds a handful of times at Bowers Stadium and the semifinal game was one of them. After this season, look for the crowds to get big for next year, especially with 90% of this team returning.

There will be a huge SHSU contingent in Frisco. Dallas and Houston are big alumni bases for SHSU.

[CaBisonFan]

I agree with most of this post. Might have missed something...but I think that the venues get a kickback from the resellers...so they get both the security, and the extra dollars.

[Bison"FANatic"]

SHSU had not drawn big crowds during the season, but did very well during the playoffs. The attendance announced by university were UNDERREPORTED by far. I have been at every home game this season and the crowds definitely got bigger. The Montana St and Montana games were big. Especially Montana on Friday night. They reported 12,900, but there was 15k in that stadium easy. I have only seen overflow crowds a handful of times at Bowers Stadium and the semifinal game was one of them. After this season, look for the crowds to get big for next year, especially with 90% of this team returning.

There will be a huge SHSU contingent in Frisco. Dallas and Houston are big alumni bases for SHSU.

What do you think your season tickets will be at for next year if they were only at 650 tickets this year?

[Vitojr130]

I'm just mad they didn't wait until the Monday after the semifinals to release tickets. That was the only fair way to go about it.

[CaBisonFan]

I'm just mad they didn't wait until the Monday after the semifinals to release tickets. That was the only fair way to go about it.

I completely agree.

The Big Dance does the same thing. Neutral parties can buy tickets before the teams have been decided. We've entered the zone of 'it's all about money.' It's the price to pay for being in DI.

[Bison03]

After this season, look for the crowds to get big for next year, especially with 90% of this team returning.

With all due respect, why would it matter how many players are returning? Wouldn't you go watch your team even with 10% returning?

[TransAmBison]

With all due respect, why would it matter how many players are returning? Wouldn't you go watch your team even with 10% returning?I think he means people will have high expectations for a good season.

[SamsRams]

They would if there were any tickets left. But there weren't so that was not an option. I know some were added to our allocation early this week but it was a small amount. If the NCAA had 8k tickets remaining on Monday morning you can guarantee they would allocate as many to the teams as they would want.

You and I have very differing opinions of small amounts. 1200 seats in a 20K stadium is 6% of the seats. adding 600 seats to an orginal allocation of 4000 is a 15% in crease in tickets available for each team. To me these are big numbers, especially since the day before there was NOTHING available.




I believe the team allocations include seats between the 40s so that's probably why you don't see any. Our allotment is 101 to 107 which appears to start about the 40 and go past the end zone. I know some were available via the NCAA site prior because I know someone who got one.

Patience.

I dont understand how you are thinking the allocations are between the 40's and then say the allocations are from the 40's to the endzone.....those statements contradict each other the way I read it. As per your friend who has a seat inbetween the 40's, how did he get it?

[IndyBison]

You and I have very differing opinions of small amounts. 1200 seats in a 20K stadium is 6% of the seats. adding 600 seats to an orginal allocation of 4000 is a 15% in crease in tickets available for each team. To me these are big numbers, especially since the day before there was NOTHING available.
The 600 came from blocks that were returned from Frisco groups who had been given allotments but didn't use them. I said that's a small number because I think NDSU would like another 4000 and we only got 600. I believe the NCAA is working with each of the other groups who had allotments to see if they can have any back to give to the teams. They probably aren't having much luck.


I dont understand how you are thinking the allocations are between the 40's and then say the allocations are from the 40's to the endzone.....those statements contradict each other the way I read it. As per your friend who has a seat inbetween the 40's, how did he get it?
The allocation was in sections 101 to 107. Section 101 starts in one end zone and 107 is on the other 40 (70 yards counting the end zone). Thus both 40s are included in our allotment. That doesn't mean we got ALL the seats in those sections. Some they obviously made available through the NCAA site. The person I know who has tickets between the 40s bought them after the Lehigh game on the NCAA site.

[1998braves64]

Gene Taylor said he thought the reason why so many "neutral" parties bought tickets before end of semi finals is because of the teams involved in playoffs. Think Montana State, Montana, Georgia Southern, JMU (to an extent I think) along with NDSU, and by location SHSU are all big time FCS schools that have very good traveling fan bases. So if many of those fanbases bought tickets hedging on their bets like a few did on here that would eat up quite a few tickets in a hurry! Also wouldn't put it by the "smart" ticket brokers to notice the field was stacked with decent fanbases and decided to take the extra risk. You had Montana (big time name who has been there before), SHSU (local) GSU (big time name who has been to championships several times) and NDSU (big time name if they did their research could probably figure out we had a large active fanbase). I'm still confident there will be tickets available game day. Even at the game saturday there were several people selling tickets in the lobby granted they went fairly quickly though! So if people are selling tickets on game day at one of NDSU's biggest games there are going to be tickets to be had in Frisco.

[56BISON73]

The 600 came from blocks that were returned from Frisco groups who had been given allotments but didn't use them. I said that's a small number because I think NDSU would like another 4000 and we only got 600. I believe the NCAA is working with each of the other groups who had allotments to see if they can have any back to give to the teams. They probably aren't having much luck.


The allocation was in sections 101 to 107. Section 101 starts in one end zone and 107 is on the other 40 (70 yards counting the end zone). Thus both 40s are included in our allotment. That doesn't mean we got ALL the seats in those sections. Some they obviously made available through the NCAA site. The person I know who has tickets between the 40s bought them after the Lehigh game on the NCAA site.

This will be interesting. I might actually get better seats thru NDSU than I got from PHP.

[IndyBison]

This will be interesting. I might actually get better seats thru NDSU than I got from PHP.
I bet I know some people who would take the PHP tickets off your hands. I hear there may be some people looking for tickets. :biggrin: