After Further Review (Game Thoughts)...

[bri-dog]

Just got done watching the game again. Wow.

The first thing I saw on the telecast was my brother and good friends tailgating. The current Sioux player was there again, flashing his Whioux t-shirt. At least he had sense enough to cover it up the rest of the time. :biggrin: Drinking out of a can, too. Damn rule-breakers.

Brock Jensen -- what can you say. Puking, turf toe, and was 10-15 passing and 97 yards rushing. Literally gut-check time and he came through in a huge way.

Colten Heagle -- he's just an animal. My buddy at the bar (didn't go to NDSU but has become a big Bison fan) asked if he's big. I said nope, and I don't think he has crazy speed either (I could be wrong, though), he's just a ballplayer. I think the announcers got it about right -- he's "tough as nails". And they also stole a line from Bohl when they said he had a "whale of a game".

"Playoff DJ" is back -- he ran strong yesterday.

The o-line did a fantastic job, and the defense in general was outstanding. I posted this in another thread, but someone on gsufans.com wrote "We got beat by Bama but were taken to the woodshed by NDSU."

Can't wait to go to Frisco!

[Hammerhead]

And the ESPN announcers talking up the triple option for the first 3 quarters.

[CaBisonFan]

Brock controls the game in many ways. He has a great sense for the ebb & flow of the game. It's worth a million to the rest of the team. His clock management is as good as anyone that I've seen at the collegiate level.

The defense played a phenomenal game...but if Colton had not been available, the game would have been very different. He was the difference between an excellent defensive game and a great one.

I agree about DJ...and Sam Ojuri adds the perfect counterbalance to what DJ offers. We're loaded back there. Many, many FBS schools would love to have our offensive backfield.

GS loved to use the 'bama comparison prior to the game, and now they are doing something similar. Some are calling us better than the Tide. It's a bit of a stretch perhaps...but I would tend to agree with their assessment, at least if we were to limit this comparison to how we played this past Saturday. We were in a zone.

[TateMosersneighbor]

Brock controls the game in many ways. He has a great sense for the ebb & flow of the game. It's worth a million to the rest of the team. His clock management is as good as anyone that I've seen at the collegiate level.

The defense played a phenomenal game...but if Colton had not been available, the game would have been very different. He was the difference between an excellent defensive game and a great one.

I agree about DJ...and Sam Ojuri adds the perfect counterbalance to what DJ offers. We're loaded back there. Many, many FBS schools would love to have our offensive backfield.

GS loved to use the 'bama comparison prior to the game, and now they are doing something similar. Some are calling us better than the Tide. It's a bit of a stretch perhaps...but I would tend to agree with their assessment, at least if we were to limit this comparison to how we played this past Saturday. We were in a zone.

WHO is calling us better than the Tide? It's more than a stretch...we are damn good team, but Alabama? Jeez...KOOLAID!

Can we come back to earth a bit?

[Notorious]

ESPN production quality made the FargoDome look so much better than NBC ND...not a knock on local production...just resources...the production quality of ESPN, top to bottom, was amazing, and a huge positive for the program, and the University, as a whole.

[Tatanka]

ESPN production quality made the FargoDome look so much better than NCBC ND...not a knock on local production...just resources...the production quality of ESPN, top to bottom, was amazing, and a huge positive for the program, and the University, as a whole.

This post could not contain any more truth.

[CaBisonFan]

WHO is calling us better than the Tide? It's more than a stretch...we are damn good team, but Alabama? Jeez...KOOLAID!

Can we come back to earth a bit?

Oh come on...the FBS superiority thing has always been out of hand. We're the mythbusters.

[missingnumber7]

Oh come on...the FBS superiority thing has always been out of hand. We're the mythbusters.

I want some of whatever you are drinking or smoking. No way we are even mid pack in ANY BCS conference.

U
This was the first time I sat with my old man and we were both awestruck by how much of an a
nimal heagle was. It was perfect for the TO.

My only question for Indy is how was that an illegal fair catch signal? Hands below the waist...touched by another player first.

[EmeraldCityBison]

My only question for Indy is how was that an illegal fair catch signal? Hands below the waist...touched by another player first.

This and the ball bounced. To be a fair catch, doesn't the ball need to be caught out of the air?

[THEsocalledfan]

ESPN production quality made the FargoDome look so much better than NBC ND...not a knock on local production...just resources...the production quality of ESPN, top to bottom, was amazing, and a huge positive for the program, and the University, as a whole.

No, it is much a knock on the Mickey Mouse NBC production, or you should have intended it that way. Those guys are joke and I don't want any excuses. I loved how the game was not blurry; that to me is the idictment of the NBC fiasco.

[missingnumber7]

No, it is much a knock on the Mickey Mouse NBC production, or you should have intended it that way. Those guys are joke and I don't want any excuses. I loved how the game was not blurry; that to me is the idictment of the NBC fiasco.I love how CBS in Bismarck is going to have the 1st in house HD broadcast in ND...maybe thats who NDSU needs to go through next year.

[tony]

If you are like me and forgot to set the DVR, it looks like this game is being replayed on ESPNU at midnight (so Monday night or Tuesday morning.)

[semobison]

I think this was as good as we have played all season! Peaking at the right time, I hope! Defense was all over the field and we had season highs in rushing and total offense!

[NorthernBison]

I want some of whatever you are drinking or smoking. No way we are even mid pack in ANY BCS conference.

U
This was the first time I sat with my old man and we were both awestruck by how much of an a
nimal heagle was. It was perfect for the TO.

My only question for Indy is how was that an illegal fair catch signal? Hands below the waist...touched by another player first.

INVALID Fair Catch Signal.

A strict interpretation of NF: 2-9-4 "An invalid fair-catch signal is ANY signal by a receiver before the kick is caught or recoverd:
a. That does not meet the requirements of a valid signal.
b. Afterthe kick has touched a receiver.
c. After the kick has touched the ground.

I think they got it right. (there is only one valid signal - one arm raised straight up and waved side to side.)

If they got it wrong, then the 5 yard penalty was the only difference.

Once the arms were waived, the ball was going to be whistled dead once it is possessed.

[IndyBison]

INVALID Fair Catch Signal.

A strict interpretation of NF: 2-9-4 "An invalid fair-catch signal is ANY signal by a receiver before the kick is caught or recoverd:
a. That does not meet the requirements of a valid signal.
b. Afterthe kick has touched a receiver.
c. After the kick has touched the ground.

I think they got it right. (there is only one valid signal - one arm raised straight up and waved side to side.)

If they got it wrong, then the 5 yard penalty was the only difference.

Once the arms were waived, the ball was going to be whistled dead once it is possessed.
That is the HS rule but it is very similar to the NCAA rule. The interpretation of the college rule was clarified a couple years ago to consider any action by the arm of the return guy (other than an obvious shielding of the sun) to be considered a valid or invalid signal. The only realy differnce in NCAA is the protection afforded the return guy. In HS there is an additional difference in a team can attempt a free kick (same rules as a kickoff) for a FG after a fair catch. That would not apply after an invalid fair catch signal.


2-8

Valid Signal
ARTICLE 2. A valid signal is a signal given by a player of Team B who has obviously signaled his intention by extending one hand only clearly above his head and waving that hand from side to side of his body more than once.

Invalid Signal
ARTICLE 3. An invalid signal is any waving signal by a player of Team B:
a. That does not meet the requirements of Article 2 (above); or
b. That is given after a scrimmage kick is caught beyond the neutral zone, strikes the ground or touches another player beyond the neutral zone (A.R. 6-5-3-III-V); or
c. That is given after a free kick is caught, strikes the ground or touches another player.

The get-away signal is considered an invalid signal. Approved ruling 6-5-3-V states:

Team A’s scrimmage kick is rolling beyond the neutral zone when B17 alerts his teammates to stay away from the ball by a “get away” signal.
RULING: Invalid signal. The ball is dead by rule when either team recovers.

Rule 4-1-3g declares the ball is dead "When a scrimmage kick beyond the neutral zone or a free kick is caught or recovered by any player after a valid or invalid fair-catch signal". At the point of Smith's recovery, the ball was declared dead and the play was over. There is no penalty for what he did up to this point. He just doesn't have the ability to advance it. That's what he did wrong. Rule 6-5-2 states "No Team B player shall carry a caught or recovered ball more than two steps in any direction after any Team B player gives a valid or invalid fair catch signal". This foul carries a 5-yard penalty from the succeeding spot which is usually the spot of catch or recovery.

[CAS4127]

This is the second time Smith has done that this year. Either he wasn't coached-up on it properly or he didn't understand or listen. I guess another option is that he just forgot in the heat of the moment, but still . . . . . .

[Vitojr130]

I want some of whatever you are drinking or smoking. No way we are even mid pack in ANY BCS conference.

U
This was the first time I sat with my old man and we were both awestruck by how much of an a
nimal heagle was. It was perfect for the TO.

My only question for Indy is how was that an illegal fair catch signal? Hands below the waist...touched by another player first.

I think NDSU could find success in the Big East...

[BisonNeil]

This and the ball bounced. To be a fair catch, doesn't the ball need to be caught out of the air?

Exactly what my son and I thought. It was a BS call by the referee.

He also blew the fumble by the QB call when he called it an incomplete pass that was reviewable. Personally, for what it worth, I think that referee from the Patriot League was pissed off about what NDSU did to his league's best team and did what he could to decide the game. I do not think he was an unbiased ref. If he was, then he was really a s#!tty one.

[ndsubison1]

INVALID Fair Catch Signal.

A strict interpretation of NF: 2-9-4 "An invalid fair-catch signal is ANY signal by a receiver before the kick is caught or recoverd:
a. That does not meet the requirements of a valid signal.
b. Afterthe kick has touched a receiver.
c. After the kick has touched the ground.

I think they got it right. (there is only one valid signal - one arm raised straight up and waved side to side.)

If they got it wrong, then the 5 yard penalty was the only difference.

Once the arms were waived, the ball was going to be whistled dead once it is possessed.

This is one of the most inconsistent calls in college football. I see players doing what Smith did all the time and sometimes it isn't called

[IndyBison]

Exactly what my son and I thought. It was a BS call by the referee.

He also blew the fumble by the QB call when he called it an incomplete pass that was reviewable. Personally, for what it worth, I think that referee from the Patriot League was pissed off about what NDSU did to his league's best team and did what he could to decide the game. I do not think he was an unbiased ref. If he was, then he was really a s#!tty one.
It was 100% correct call. It wasn't a fair catch but it was an invalid fair catch signal. As I posted, you give any "get-away" signal the ball becomes dead when anyone possesses. The foul was for running with a dead ball after giving a signal.

As for the call on the forward pass/fumble, I was surprised he didn't signal anything until after the ball was recovered. I have two guesses on that one. First, he was still processing what he saw and ruled later than some people like. Second, he was letting the play continue in case it was a fumble to see if there was an immediate recovery. On bang-bang plays like that the Rs are taught to err on the side of incomplete so you don't allow a cheap turnover. Games with replay do allow them to have it reviewed but in any game outside of FBS, you have to go with the when-in-doubt situation. That one was easy to see on slow motion replay but not as easy in real time.

I thought the R did a nice job. There were a couple other guys I was concerned about.

[THEsocalledfan]

Exactly what my son and I thought. It was a BS call by the referee.

He also blew the fumble by the QB call when he called it an incomplete pass that was reviewable. Personally, for what it worth, I think that referee from the Patriot League was pissed off about what NDSU did to his league's best team and did what he could to decide the game. I do not think he was an unbiased ref. If he was, then he was really a s#!tty one.

Read before you post. Indy clearly showed the correct call was made.

Indy, so no free kicks in college? I know that rule is in the books for the NFL. I assumed free kick was possible at any level after a fair catch.

(For those who don't know what a free kick is, it is when a team lines up like a kickoff but has a holder, and if the kicker puts it through the uprights, it is good for 3 points. Only makes sense if the very end of a half (like less than 10 seconds) or a game and you have a team pinned deep in their own end punting. You tell your returner to fair catch, then you can do this.)

[IndyBison]

Read before you post. Indy clearly showed the correct call was made.

Indy, so no free kicks in college? I know that rule is in the books for the NFL. I assumed free kick was possible at any level after a fair catch.

(For those who don't know what a free kick is, it is when a team lines up like a kickoff but has a holder, and if the kicker puts it through the uprights, it is good for 3 points. Only makes sense if the very end of a half (like less than 10 seconds) or a game and you have a team pinned deep in their own end punting. You tell your returner to fair catch, then you can do this.)
Correct. I'm surprised they don't have it in NCAA since they have it in the NFL and HS. It is very rarely done even where it is allowed so maybe that's why NCAA doesn't bother with it. It does create a critical distinction in the HS rules though if a situation is considered a fair catch. For example, if play R1 signal for a fair catch but R2 catches it, the ball is dead but this isn't considered a fair catch. This would prevent R from attempting a free kick to scare.

BTW.. the team does NOT need to have someone holding it. They can tee it up like any other free kick.

[THEsocalledfan]

BTW.. the team does NOT need to have someone holding it. They can tee it up like any other free kick.

Wow, did not know that. I just remember SF doing it to the Vikes in the playoff in Jan of 1989.

[THEsocalledfan]

Indy, speaking of obscure rules, can you still drop kick in college? I know that is still on the NFL books and Fluttie did it for a PAT a few years ago.

[CaBisonFan]

I want some of whatever you are drinking or smoking. No way we are even mid pack in ANY BCS conference.

If we were in a BCS conference we would be mid-pack. We'd have a bigger draw for recruits because of it. Where did I say that we belong in one? What I said was that we were in a zone last Saturday, and on that day we would have done very well with an Alabama. I'm not proposing anything. What drug are you on that keeps such a small view of the Bison and the great quality of the current team? But I don't ever wanna be on your drug.

[IndyBison]

Indy, speaking of obscure rules, can you still drop kick in college? I know that is still on the NFL books and Fluttie did it for a PAT a few years ago.
Yes. NCAA and NFHS allow for a drop kick on a try or FG (also on a punt or free kick after safety). We had a successful drop kick for a try in one of our HS games this year. The coach said the player spent a year in Europe where he played rugby and learned how to get very accurate.

[NorCalJack]

Congratulations on your win and best of luck in the FCS Championship game. I will be watching the game and pulling for NDSU.

Go State!!!

[75NOVA]

I've watched the replay of the game twice....tonight again I bet. Just read my Bison Illustrated and the Coulter Boyer article, meeting today with the boys today to decide if we are flying or taking our bus to Frisco(picking up bri-dog some where in Kansas if we drive), and already missing the fun I've had in the west lot this year. Even with some unfinished business in Texas I can't wait until next fall. See you all in Texas(God i'm so frickin proud to be a BISON)!!!

[THEsocalledfan]

Congratulations on your win and best of luck in the FCS Championship game. I will be watching the game and pulling for NDSU.

Go State!!!

We don't go by "State" like some in SD call your school (by they way, I hate that and it sounds dumb), but I certainly do appreciate the support.

[badger04]

ESPN production quality made the FargoDome look so much better than NBC ND...not a knock on local production...just resources...the production quality of ESPN, top to bottom, was amazing, and a huge positive for the program, and the University, as a whole.

I watched the game yesterday, it is better the second time around. The production by ESPN was great, great graphics, camera work was good and bumps showing the area brought back memories when I there.

This game reminded me of the Camellia Bowl ( spell) back in 1969 and 1970 when NDSU played the University of Montana. Different era but the same results!!! Go Bison

[CaBisonFan]

I want some of whatever you are drinking or smoking. No way we are even mid pack in ANY BCS conference.

Do you have any idea how many times I've herd this line? I come on hear to speculate & to fish. Very little of what I right enters my everyday life. This hole bisonville thing is fantasy. If it wasn't, I woodn't bother visiting...ever.

In 2007 I predicted the 10-1 season...same line from several people. And it continues. zzzzzzzzzzzzz

There's the 'want your drugs' crowd...and the whiteout crowd. Both are equally boring. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Repeat after me...whatever ca speculates about is purely for fun. He understands the difference between an elite FBS team and a mediocre one.

[Hammerhead]

Even before the GSU game, the Sagarin ratings have us doing well in the following conferences:

WAC -- 2nd
Sun Belt -- 2nd
Moutnain West -- 3rd
Mid-Am -- 4th
C-usa -- 4th
Big East -- 4th



I want some of whatever you are drinking or smoking. No way we are even mid pack in ANY BCS conference.

.

[CaBisonFan]

Even before the GSU game, the Sagarin ratings have us doing well in the following conferences:

WAC -- 2nd
Sun Belt -- 2nd
Moutnain West -- 3rd
Mid-Am -- 4th
C-usa -- 4th
Big East -- 4th

Thanks for this. It's called fun. It's probably also quite accurate. If we were able to offer more scholarships, we would have the depth that the naysayers say we don't have.

[NorthernBison]

We don't go by "State" like some in SD call your school (by they way, I hate that and it sounds dumb), but I certainly do appreciate the support.

Our Cheerleaders have a cheer that includes, "Let's go State". So, we kinda do.

[THEsocalledfan]

Our Cheerleaders have a cheer that includes, "Let's go State". So, we kinda do.

Thankfully, I have never heard any Bison fan say that. I hate it down here in SD.

[Tatanka]

Our Cheerleaders have a cheer that includes, "Let's go State".

Thankfully, very very few people actually pay attention to what "cheers" they're "leading". Not hating on the cheer team, I know they put a lot of hours into doing what they do, but when my nine year old daughter tells me "Dad, that's a really lame cheer" and rolls her eyes, I cannot in good conscience disagree with her.

[missingnumber7]

Even before the GSU game, the Sagarin ratings have us doing well in the following conferences:

WAC -- 2nd
Sun Belt -- 2nd
Moutnain West -- 3rd
Mid-Am -- 4th
C-usa -- 4th
Big East -- 4th

That with our current schedule. FWIW It has taken us this long to acclimate to MVFC football, I have no doubt with increased schollys and some acclimation time would might could compete, but honestly...this team we could pull off one or two shockers, but all in all we aren't there and its annoying seeing people compare us there or think we are. I'm more worried about us being the top of the MVFC and FCS.