At this rate, The NDSU should............

[JustinTyem]

go down as one of the best teams at NDSU and Bison will be the FCS Champs,and #9 on the WALL OF FAME at the DOME.

[kab1one]

When the bison recovered the fumble, I said to my buddy, this is where legends are made. Back from the locker, the flu, 96 yards, a td and Brock will go down as one for the ages. The crowning jewel of him being blazed in our memory was going around the left edge and 55 yards later, TD bison, game almost over....

[BamaBison]

Brock has almost caught walker. Not yet.

[coloradobison]

Brock has almost caught walker. Not yet.
There havent been the come from behind wins with Brock like Steve had. Lucky for us, we have 2 more years and one national championship game to change all of that.

[devin45k]

There havent been the come from behind wins with Brock like Steve had. Lucky for us, we have 2 more years and one national championship game to change all of that.

Brock not having to come back for victories may say something about him too

[Bisonguy]

Brock has almost caught walker. Not yet.

Brock has already surpassed him. SDSU was Walker's championship and he choked.

Come-from-behind wins are a crappy measuring stick as well. Bentrim didn't need to lead teams back from a deficit.


There's only been one number retired for NDSU, and Brock's number should definitely not be retired.

[walknroehl]

He had one hell of a game tonite. Turf toe? Pfft I'll run 55 yards and score. Also he had an awesome block to get Warren in the endzone on that end around.

[TransAmBison]

Brock has already surpassed him. SDSU was Walker's championship and he choked.

Come-from-behind wins are a crappy measuring stick as well. Bentrim didn't need to lead teams back from a deficit.


There's only been one number retired for NDSU, and Brock's number should definitely not be retired.Agree with all except for saying Walker choked. I would say far from it. Walker was awesome...truly one of the greats...but so is Jensen. That kid has heart....unbelievable. Makes me proud to be a Bison.

[devin45k]

He had one hell of a game tonite. Turf toe? Pfft I'll run 55 yards and score. Also he had an awesome block to get Warren in the endzone on that end around.

with the flu also

[Twentysix]

with the flu also

The flu gives you southern speed. durr.

[Facts]

He had one hell of a game tonite. Turf toe? Pfft I'll run 55 yards and score. Also he had an awesome block to get Warren in the endzone on that end around.

That's why they call him "Block" Jensen!

[Snowgoose]

[QUOTE=Bisonguy;577921]Brock has already surpassed him. SDSU was Walker's championship and he choked.

Come-from-behind wins are a crappy measuring stick as well. Bentrim didn't need to lead teams back from a deficit.


First of all comparing Brock and Walker is extremely difficult since Walker never got this chance in the playoffs. But I honestly think you are nuts to think he has passed Walker. Walker's final two years we lost to ONE FCS opponent and beat 3 out of 4 FBS opponents and the only loss was to a bowl eligible Minnesota team that we should have beaten. The offense scored 50 points 3 times, 40 points 3 times, and 30 points basically the rest of the 07 season against the same competition as we had this year. Whenever they stuffed 8 in the box Walker would pass for 275 yards. Brock never passed for more than 220 this year and only had like two games over 200 yards. Brock is still developing as a QB and I wouldn't trade him for the world, but he still needs to learn to look off his primary targets and go to his second and third targets like Walker did. Having to come from behind has more to do with this years defense being one of the best in Bison history and by the way that goes for some of those Bentrim teams as well.

Don't get me wrong I love Brock and he played UNbelievable today and I believe he will lead us to a championship and I also believe he will improve more next year and the year after. I just don't believe he could carry a team YET the way walker had to at times, but he is getting there. His improvement from last year to this year is drastic and one of the biggest improvements I have seen from one year to the next.

[Bisonguy]

Agree with all except for saying Walker choked. I would say far from it. Walker was awesome...truly one of the greats...but so is Jensen. That kid has heart....unbelievable. Makes me proud to be a Bison.

Brookings. 2007.





First of all comparing Brock and Walker is extremely difficult since Walker never got this chance in the playoffs. But I honestly think you are nuts to think he has passed Walker. Walker's final two years we lost to ONE FCS opponent and beat 3 out of 4 FBS opponents and the only loss was to a bowl eligible Minnesota team that we should have beaten. The offense scored 50 points 3 times, 40 points 3 times, and 30 points basically the rest of the 07 season against the same competition as we had this year. Whenever they stuffed 8 in the box Walker would pass for 275 yards. Brock never passed for more than 220 this year and only had like two games over 200 yards. Brock is still developing as a QB and I wouldn't trade him for the world, but he still needs to learn to look off his primary targets and go to his second and third targets like Walker did. Having to come from behind has more to do with this years defense being one of the best in Bison history and by the way that goes for some of those Bentrim teams as well.

Don't get me wrong I love Brock and he played UNbelievable today and I believe he will lead us to a championship and I also believe he will improve more next year and the year after. I just don't believe he could carry a team YET the way walker had to at times, but he is getting there. His improvement from last year to this year is drastic and one of the biggest improvements I have seen from one year to the next.


How many of those FCS wins were against teams that made the playoffs? How many made the semifinals or even the quarterfinals? Cripes, Walker only brought home one GWFC title and the GWFC wasn't remotely close to level of competition in the MVFC.

[Snowgoose]

I believe both of those teams (06/07) had a great chance to win a title as both would have had a bye and week off and would probably have had home field throughout as well.

My point is Walker did everything that was asked as they went 10-1 (only loss was to minnesota) and 10-1. In 2007 they beat some good teams including Minnesota, Central Michigan by 30 (they won the MAC that year), Cal Poly was good that year, Sam Houston had Rhett Bomar. They also played Illinois State and Wester Illinois. So they played a very similar schedule to what was played this year, but put up huge points. This years team is undoubtedly led by the defense while those teams were led by a potent offense. Brock might get there and I think he will, but he isn't there yet.

[mango]

Agree with all except for saying Walker choked. I would say far from it. Walker was awesome...truly one of the greats...but so is Jensen. That kid has heart....unbelievable. Makes me proud to be a Bison.

I agree with this. The game against SDSU in 2007, the Jacks made more plays. Walker was driving and Brock Gentile made a heck of a play on the pick. I was worried, I knew Walker's track record but Gentile made a big play. That's really not on Walker.

[Twentysix]

I believe both of those teams (06/07) had a great chance to win a title as both would have had a bye and week off and would probably have had home field throughout as well.

My point is Walker did everything that was asked as they went 10-1 (only loss was to minnesota) and 10-1. In 2007 they beat some good teams including Minnesota, Central Michigan by 30 (they won the MAC that year), Cal Poly was good that year, Sam Houston had Rhett Bomar. They also played Illinois State and Wester Illinois. So they played a very similar schedule to what was played this year, but put up huge points. This years team is undoubtedly led by the defense while those teams were led by a potent offense. Brock might get there and I think he will, but he isn't there yet.

Bye weeks were invented(as far as the fcs is concerned) in 2009 or 2010 I believe. So no they would not have had bye's.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_NCAA_Division_I_FCS_football_season#NCAA_FCS_ Playoff_bracket

Unless you mean NDSU's bye was the last regular season game date.

[standandyell]

brock not having to come back for victories may say something about him too

^^^^ this ^^^^

[The Lost Dutchman]

I don't think people know how sick Brock was before and during the game. I'm not sure I get out of bed with this flu that he had and this guy goes out and beats one of the best teams in the country! The guy was puking before the game and at halftime! As crazy as this sounds, I compare his performance tonight to the same as MJ when he had the flu against the Jazz in the NBA finals. This kid is all heart and can't say enough good things about him!

[BlueBisonRock]

There are times when we need to throttle back the emotions and think. Both Steve Walker and Brock Jensen are excellent Bison QBs. Walker played four years. Jensen is in his second and the year is not complete. The timing of this discussion is two seasons and one game away.

When it does come up again, it should be noted that NDSU does not retire jerseys. Paul Bothof was killed in a hunting accident during the football season. His number has never been reissued, but it was not formally retired. That was a tragic accident had his loss was felt by the entire campus.

Players can correct me, but I am under the impression that the Bison play for the name on the front and do not put their name on the back as this is a team sport and team is what makes the difference. I believe that retiring a jersey would follow the same team commitment that all Bison players have. I also have a feeling that if asked, Brock would be embarrassed by this discussion.

[BlueBisonRock]

I don't think people know how sick Brock was before and during the game. I'm not sure I get out of bed with this flu that he had and this guy goes out and beats one of the best teams in the country! The guy was puking before the game and at halftime! As crazy as this sounds, I compare his performance tonight to the same as MJ when he had the flu against the Jazz in the NBA finals. This kid is all heart and can't say enough good things about him!

I totally agree with your statement Puffy.

[56BISON73]

There are times when we need to throttle back the emotions and think. Both Steve Walker and Brock Jensen are excellent Bison QBs. Walker played four years. Jensen is in his second and the year is not complete. The timing of this discussion is two seasons and one game away.

When it does come up again, it should be noted that NDSU does not retire jerseys. Paul Bothof was killed in a hunting accident during the football season. His number has never been reissued, but it was not formally retired. That was a tragic accident had his loss was felt by the entire campus.

Players can correct me, but I am under the impression that the Bison play for the name on the front and do not put their name on the back as this is a team sport and team is what makes the difference. I believe that retiring a jersey would follow the same team commitment that all Bison players have. I also have a feeling that if asked, Brock would be embarrassed by this discussion.

You are correct.

[JustinTyem]

Im sorry,it was just my emotions got ahead of myself. Im just so PROUD of him,and his teammates. Several of the guys were sick,So I wouldnt mind if this thread could go away,:(

[The Lost Dutchman]

You are correct.
Very much so, very humble young man that is grateful for all the opportunity that NDSU has given him. Let's not forget, NDSU was the only D 1 offer Brock had and correct me if I'm mistaken. We should just proud to have Brock representing NDSU!

[Twentysix]

Very much so, very humble young man that is grateful for all the opportunity that NDSU has given him. Let's not forget, NDSU was the only D 1 offer Brock had and correct me if I'm mistaken. We should just proud to have Brock representing NDSU!

Brock will beat 4 BCS schools in his career. (assuming CSU is bcs by next year via the MWC CUSA merger)

[Bisonguy]

I believe both of those teams (06/07) had a great chance to win a title as both would have had a bye and week off and would probably have had home field throughout as well.

My point is Walker did everything that was asked as they went 10-1 (only loss was to minnesota) and 10-1. In 2007 they beat some good teams including Minnesota, Central Michigan by 30 (they won the MAC that year), Cal Poly was good that year, Sam Houston had Rhett Bomar. They also played Illinois State and Wester Illinois. So they played a very similar schedule to what was played this year, but put up huge points. This years team is undoubtedly led by the defense while those teams were led by a potent offense. Brock might get there and I think he will, but he isn't there yet.

Seriously? A 1-11 Minnesota team was good? CMU is one of the most complete games by a Bison team since moving to DI, but they also had some wholesale changes to their schemes and a come-to-Jesus meeting after losing to NDSU. Cal Poly didn't make the playoffs and was 7-4 with wins over a DII and a non-scholly program that was dropped the following year. Illinois State was 4-7 that year and lost to non-scholly Drake. Western Illinois was 6-5 and finished fourth in the MVFC. Again, not exactly playoff caliber.

Brock has definitely faced much stronger competition.

[Twentysix]

Seriously? A 1-11 Minnesota team was good? CMU is one of the most complete games by a Bison team since moving to DI, but they also had some wholesale changes to their schemes and a come-to-Jesus meeting after losing to NDSU. Cal Poly didn't make the playoffs and was 7-4 with wins over a DII and a non-scholly program that was dropped the following year. Illinois State was 4-7 that year and lost to non-scholly Drake. Western Illinois was 6-5 and finished fourth in the MVFC. Again, not exactly playoff caliber.

Brock has definitely faced much stronger competition.

Anyone arguing that steve walker faced stronger competition has no idea what they are talking about.

[The Lost Dutchman]

Why are we comparing two completely different QB's? Steve did great things for the Bison and Brock is bringing the program to a new level. It's almost like comparing Joe Montana to Steve Young for the Bison!

[IzzyFlexion]

Brock has already surpassed him. SDSU was Walker's championship and he choked. Come-from-behind wins are a crappy measuring stick as well. Bentrim didn't need to lead teams back from a deficit.


There's only been one number retired for NDSU, and Brock's number should definitely not be retired.

What the hell is this?
Were the Bison only allowed one guy on the field that day? Cuz, I saw 11 on 11.
Did Steve kick your dog or something? Shit...............

[bisonmike2]

Why are we comparing two completely different QB's? Steve did great things for the Bison and Brock is bringing the program to a new level. It's almost like comparing Joe Montana to Steve Young for the Bison!

Or Aaron Rodgers and that other guy who came before him...Brent was it?

[semobison]

Brock has a ton of football left to play as a Bison and his most important game yet is in 3 weeks! I will tell you this, I am excited to have him as our QB for the NC game and extatic that we will have two more years with him under center! Lets enjoy this time, and when he takes his jersey off for the last time in two years we can compare him to the all time greats! It truly is a great time to be a Bison!

[BisonTeacher]

Brock has a ton of football left to play as a Bison and his most important game yet is in 3 weeks! I will tell you this, I am excited to have him as our QB for the NC game and extatic that we will have two more years with him under center! Lets enjoy this time, and when he takes his jersey off for the last time in two years we can compare him to the all time greats! It truly is a great time to be a Bison!

And the rest of the sophomore class, ojuri, Heagle, Williams et al...

[kab1one]

I think the biggest difference between now and 2006/7 is speed. When the Bison moved to the valley they were big and slow. UNI was big and fast. Now the bison are bigger and faster.

Look at the last 15 minutes of the game yesterday. GSU was beat up. 40 pounds a player across the line, play after play, both sides of the field will take its toll. The difference is the speed to get to the outside and around the corner is no longer an advantage.

The same impact will be seen against SHSU, Montana with their size advantage was squarely beating SHSU at the end of the game, expect the same.

These are two completely different teams and eras. Brock didn't get behind this year so he didn't have to make the comebacks walker did. Is it that the offense got out ahead of games this year and defense just held? Or did the defense do a better job in scoring touchdowns and letting the offense manage the game? Maybe some of each. This is an explosive, efficient offense.

Walker introduced to this level, gave a comfort that not only can we compete, but the group of bison has taken it to another level.

[Bisonguy]

What the hell is this?
Were the Bison only allowed one guy on the field that day? Cuz, I saw 11 on 11.
Did Steve kick your dog or something? Shit...............

Nope. Just stirring the pot.

People love to talk about how Walker was clutch and led the team to come-from-behind victories, but seem to forget about the other 10 guys that were on the field when the Bison had the ball, and the other 11 when they didn't. It wasn't that long ago that Walker was being proclaimed the greatest Bison QB ever on here. The harsh reality is that those 2006/2007 teams were very good, but didn't see the level of competition that they have this year.

It was great to watch Walker as a Bison, it's great right now to watch Jensen as a Bison. There are no names on the back of the jerseys, they're all Bison.

[bisonhp330]

Brock has already surpassed him. SDSU was Walker's championship and he choked.

Come-from-behind wins are a crappy measuring stick as well. Bentrim didn't need to lead teams back from a deficit.


There's only been one number retired for NDSU, and Brock's number should definitely not be retired.

thats BS saying walker choked at SDSU- he should have never been there - letting that punt return for a tuddy is what won that game- one difference this year is we dont need to come from behind....defense is taking care of that issue. Comparing him to a past QB means zero to me.

on another note
I realized that day how much kids look up to the players- my boy was almost in tears when that comeback didnt happen, he went down and patted him on the shoulder on the sideline over the fence - then came back and said 'its not fair for him to end his last game like that'

[X-Factor]

There is no question that brock is a more complete qb. There is a night and day difference. Anyone who says otherwise is seriously blind and in need of a reality check. Walker was still great though! And will be remembered FOREVER in bison history! 06/07 were amazing years and steve had a lot to do with it.

[Bisonguy]

I think the biggest difference between now and 2006/7 is speed. When the Bison moved to the valley they were big and slow. UNI was big and fast. Now the bison are bigger and faster.

Look at the last 15 minutes of the game yesterday. GSU was beat up. 40 pounds a player across the line, play after play, both sides of the field will take its toll. The difference is the speed to get to the outside and around the corner is no longer an advantage.

The same impact will be seen against SHSU, Montana with their size advantage was squarely beating SHSU at the end of the game, expect the same.

These are two completely different teams and eras. Brock didn't get behind this year so he didn't have to make the comebacks walker did. Is it that the offense got out ahead of games this year and defense just held? Or did the defense do a better job in scoring touchdowns and letting the offense manage the game? Maybe some of each. This is an explosive, efficient offense.

Walker introduced to this level, gave a comfort that not only can we compete, but the group of bison has taken it to another level.

Precisely, Walker laid the foundation, Jensen is building the house. That and QB's get too much credit in victories.

[unbison]

offensive line gets the offensive mvp yesterday............300 yards rushing.................. man bear pig looked like boy sow cub

[Bison03]

I agree that we are two years too early to have this debate. It's more fair to Look at Walkers freshman and sophomore years and compare it to Jensen's.

Freshman year: Walker- 11 games (3 started), 78.3% completion, 705 yards, 10 TDs, -17 rushing yards and 1 TD.
Jensen- 9 games (7 started), 45% completion, 950 yards, 7 TDs, 231 rushing yards and 4 TDs.

Sophomore year: Walker- 11 games (11 started), 55.5% completion, 1781 yards, 14 TDs, 53 rushing yards and 1 TD.
Jensen- 14 games (14 started), 68.3% completion, 2404 yards, 13 TDs, 166 rushing yards and 8 TDs.

If you look at both of their sophomore years Walker averaged 162 ypg, scoring 1.4 TDs per game; while Jensen averaged 172 ypg, scoring 1.5 TDs per game. Slight edge goes to Brock especially when you see his completion percentage is 13% better as well. If Brock's Junior and Senior years are anything like Walkers, we have a lot to look forward to and I hope we can have this debate.

[Snowgoose]

I think the biggest difference between now and 2006/7 is speed. When the Bison moved to the valley they were big and slow. UNI was big and fast. Now the bison are bigger and faster.

These are two completely different teams and eras. Brock didn't get behind this year so he didn't have to make the comebacks walker did. Is it that the offense got out ahead of games this year and defense just held? Or did the defense do a better job in scoring touchdowns and letting the offense manage the game? Maybe some of each. This is an explosive, efficient offense.

Walker introduced to this level, gave a comfort that not only can we compete, but the group of bison has taken it to another level.

I think you are absolutely nuts to think speed is the difference between this team and the 06/07 team. I really feel like alot of people are shortchanging the 06/07 teams and saying that their schedule was weaker cause it was not at least in 2007 and I didn't look at 2006. Those teams had a lot of pro players on them. Seriously look at that 07 team as it had a better offense than defense and the defense had 2 NFL linebackers and the other was Mike Maresh. We also had Nick Schommer who played in the NFL. In 2006, we had 2 linebackers that ended up playin in the NFL and both safeties. Those 06/07 teams had NFL players all over those rosters. GSU fans (several of them) on their message board indicated that our 06 team was the best team to ever play at their field. The only main difference is this years team on defense has unbelievable depth.

We suffered in the MVC those first couple of years because we couldn't replace all of those great players as we had some terrible recruiting classes and that is really the answer. Plus we were devasted by injuries at certain positions.

Back to topic. I think Jensen will be great and will probably match Walker's stats or better the next couple of years, but to compare him to a 2006 or 2007 Walker isn't fair to Jensen because as a passer he has not quite gotten to where Walker was as a Junior or Senior, but I believe he will.

[Snowgoose]

The 2007 team had 8 (at least) NFL guys get chances with 3 that are still playing so don't say we didn't have speed or played weak competition. This isn't even counting a guy like Nate Safe who was a fantastic lineman. I have to say even if this team wins it all this year I still believe that 07 team was a better team when just comparing regular season teams as that is all we have to compare. This is not meant to take away anything from the current team at all as they seem to just get it done. To me it is like selecting two different championship teams.

[Bison03]

If what they say about Carson Wentz is true, and he lives up to that hype, it may be him we are comparing to Walker and not Jensen.

[Bisonguy]

I think you are absolutely nuts to think speed is the difference between this team and the 06/07 team. I really feel like alot of people are shortchanging the 06/07 teams and saying that their schedule was weaker cause it was not at least in 2007 and I didn't look at 2006. Those teams had a lot of pro players on them. Seriously look at that 07 team as it had a better offense than defense and the defense had 2 NFL linebackers and the other was Mike Maresh. We also had Nick Schommer who played in the NFL. In 2006, we had 2 linebackers that ended up playin in the NFL and both safeties. Those 06/07 teams had NFL players all over those rosters. GSU fans (several of them) on their message board indicated that our 06 team was the best team to ever play at their field. The only main difference is this years team on defense has unbelievable depth.

We suffered in the MVC those first couple of years because we couldn't replace all of those great players as we had some terrible recruiting classes and that is really the answer. Plus we were devasted by injuries at certain positions.

Back to topic. I think Jensen will be great and will probably match Walker's stats or better the next couple of years, but to compare him to a 2006 or 2007 Walker isn't fair to Jensen because as a passer he has not quite gotten to where Walker was as a Junior or Senior, but I believe he will.

How was the 2007 schedule even remotely close to this year? CMU maybe, beyond that a bunch of tomato cans.

SFA, 0-11
SHSU, 7-4 (including two non-DI wins)
CMU, good win
WIU, 6-5(including one non-DI win)
UC-Davis, 5-6 (including one non-DI win)
MVSU, 3-8
Minnesota, 1-11 (first year of the Brewster era)
SUU, 0-11
ISU-r, 4-7
Cal-Poly 7-4 (including one non-DI win)
SDSU, 7-4 (including one win over a 2nd year transitioning team)

Seriously, ZERO teams that would have been considered for the FCS playoffs.

[Snowgoose]

[QUOTE=Bisonguy;578304]Nope. Just stirring the pot.

People love to talk about how Walker was clutch and led the team to come-from-behind victories, but seem to forget about the other 10 guys that were on the field when the Bison had the ball, and the other 11 when they didn't. It wasn't that long ago that Walker was being proclaimed the greatest Bison QB ever on here. The harsh reality is that those 2006/2007 teams were very good, but didn't see the level of competition that they have this year.

Your thinking that they did not see the level of competition is completely wrong and sagarin agrees. see sagarin ratings below. Now I remind you that these are end of the year numbers so this years team is benefiting from the opportunity to continue to play against playoff teams.

Rating SoS Elo
2006 - 57 71.81 138 48
2007 - 71 68.80 160 72
2011 - 48 74.16 146 49

According to Sagarin even with the added playoff teams the SOS is better in 2006 and probably was better in 2007 at the end of the regular season as well. I am really just sick of hearing that those teams did not play the same competition because they did and they lit them up.

[Bisonguy]

And Sagarin has plenty of flaws, including the "Great West Phenomenon", which *gasp*, NDSU was a part of in 2006/2007.

Again, zero playoff teams that year versus five this season, zero top five opponents versus three this year, and NDSU will either be the best team in all of FCS or played the best team in FCS.

[HoopsBison]

Steve never got the chance to perform in the MVFC and Post-Season so its really unfair to use that against him in my honest opinion. The 06/07 teams were incredibly talented but could not match the current depth we have. It would have been really fun to see what they could have done in the playoffs.

Brock is an absolute gamer and and a stud. He is only a sophomore and has incredible things to come in the future.

One thing to note is Steve and the 06/07 teams brought some great national recognition to the program and what they accomplished very well could be the reason why we have some of the players we have now. This years team will do the same thing for future teams.

[Bisonguy]

Steve never got the chance to perform in the MVFC and Post-Season so its really unfair to use that against him in my honest opinion. The 06/07 teams were incredibly talented but could not match the current depth we have. It would have been really fun to see what they could have done in the playoffs.

Brock is an absolute gamer and and a stud. He is only a sophomore and has incredible things to come in the future.

One thing to note is Steve and the 06/07 teams brought some great national recognition to the program and what they accomplished very well could be the reason why we have some of the players we have now. This years team will do the same thing for future teams.

The 2006/2007 teams had some great athletes. Those teams laid the foundation, this year's team is building the house.