Penalty Question

[gsu2583]

Watched the replay but can't remember off hand. Did Lehigh (or NDSU) get called for any offensive holding? I only ask because someone did the tally over our past two games 70+ pass attempts against us and not one holding call. Trend or anomaly?

[onbison09]

I don't remember any.

[TransAmBison]

I don't remember any.We had at least one against us.

[gsu2583]

We had at least one against us. You guys have a more balanced offense. I figured pass-happy-Lehigh would have a couple. Just find it odd that I haven't noticed many lately.

[Civil06]

You guys have a more balanced offense. I figured pass-happy-Lehigh would have a couple. Just find it odd that I haven't noticed many lately.

Our d-line was usually in their backfield before they had a chance to grab on. :)

[perthbison]

If I remember right, I think their nosetackle had a badly torn jersy he was showing the ref as he whined to him.:rofl:

[BisonPride72]

We had two, one on Richards on our first drive of the 3rd quarter and one on Hansen at the beginning of the 4th quarter.

[BISONBRI53]

We had at least one against us.

Think we had one on WR. Think it was a nice catch/play by CW that was called back. Could be wrong

[17>1]

We had two, one on Richards on our first drive of the 3rd quarter and one on Hansen at the beginning of the 4th quarter.

Are you sure you aren't referring to Austin's 15 yard unsportsmanlike penalty he picks up every game? All my dad and I saw was a scrum at the end of one play and flag went flying into the air. We both looked at each other and said "Richard". We got a good laugh when we found out it was in fact him.

[JustinTyem]

Are you sure you aren't referring to Austin's 15 yard unsportsmanlike penalty he picks up every game? All my dad and I saw was a scrum at the end of one play and flag went flying into the air. We both looked at each other and said "Richard". We got a good laugh when we found out it was in fact him.2nd qtr .PENALTY NDSU
unsportsmanlike conduct (63-Richard,Austin) 14 yards to the LEHIGH37. and heres the other at the start of the 3rd qtr. N 1-10 N21 PENALTY NDSU holding (63-Richard,Austin) 10 yards to the NDSU11. https://admin.xosn.com/pdf8/804430.pdf?SPSID=11850&SPID=695&DB_LANG=C&DB_OEM_ID=2400&KEY=JPNSLKMBJBSHROZ.20111211021536

[17>1]

2nd qtr .PENALTY NDSU
unsportsmanlike conduct (63-Richard,Austin) 14 yards to the LEHIGH37. and heres the other at the start of the 3rd qtr. N 1-10 N21 PENALTY NDSU holding (63-Richard,Austin) 10 yards to the NDSU11. https://admin.xosn.com/pdf8/804430.pdf?SPSID=11850&SPID=695&DB_LANG=C&DB_OEM_ID=2400&KEY=JPNSLKMBJBSHROZ.20111211021536

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[Jim Puetz]

I noticed a couple of obvious holding situations on the edge, one right in front of the ref that didn't get called. I thought it was a joke.

[Bisonguy]

Anyone hear what conference the refs are from for this game? Someone on AGS said the MEAC, but thought they might be joking.

[JustinTyem]

There are always gonna have penalties missed, you cant see everything. Heck,look at the GSU-Maine game,I found a couple holds and several falsestarts/illegal motions that werent called. Its the game!!!! Nobody is perfect,except ME!!!!

[gsu2583]

In that vein, our A backs and B backs tend to lean in as the ball is snapped (or slightly before.) What is the rule there? As long as they are not in a 3-point stance they can "lean-it" if their feet don't move? Is that right?

[JustinTyem]

In that vein, our A backs and B backs tend to lean in as the ball is snapped (or slightly before.) What is the rule there? As long as they are not in a 3-point stance they can "lean-it" if their feet don't move? Is that right?Its a false start penalty!!!!! They can not move forward,until the snap. Unless they move to a different position,like WR to slide to the line of scrimmage. Or if they move and go laterally to the line of scrimmage. Also if two men move at the same time and do not reset,its a Illegal motion. Meaning,if those two men dont reset,and then the correct player go back in motion,Its Illegal. But if they do reset,and the correct play,its legal. But lets say,they both go in motion,but only 1 resets,its illegal motion. Does this make sense to you??? Sorry,I had a stroke,so sometimes I miss some words wrong)

[gsu2583]

When an O-line is a pass block situation (not in a 3-point stance), they can twist and turn and point, pick their nose, whatever. Right?

[imabison]

In that vein, our A backs and B backs tend to lean in as the ball is snapped (or slightly before.) What is the rule there? As long as they are not in a 3-point stance they can "lean-it" if their feet don't move? Is that right?

Your backs will have be leaning back to HEAR you QB it will be so loud :) :) Maybe even need to wear some Ear Trumpets.:) :)
Just Kidding of course...

[JustinTyem]

When an O-line is a pass block situation (not in a 3-point stance), they can twist and turn and point, pick their nose, whatever. Right?a loud fart by the Dlinemen, would be Illegal sounds to causing the Olineman to move. This is so funny,picking his nose,LoL

[bisoningrandforks]

seems like the ref's haven't been as flag happy as the regular season...

[imabison]

seems like the ref's haven't been as flag happy as the regular season...

Could that be that playoff games are NOT officiated by Missouri Valley Officials??

[TateMosersneighbor]

Could that be that playoff games are NOT officiated by Missouri Valley Officials??

Personally, I'd like to see Richards get a Unsportsmanlike this game...it'll tell me that it's the Austin out there that we know and love. The OL needs to be a bit nasty this game. 1500 lbs of pissed off young men each and every play will be a good thing.

[gsu2583]

Personally, I'd like to see Richards get a Unsportsmanlike this game...it'll tell me that it's the Austin out there that we know and love. The OL needs to be a bit nasty this game. 1500 lbs of pissed off young men each and every play will be a good thing.

Messed up...

[Hammerhead]

They might have been joking. Don't they use FBS conference officials in the semifinals and championship game since replay will be used?


Anyone hear what conference the refs are from for this game? Someone on AGS said the MEAC, but thought they might be joking.

[IndyBison]

I noticed a couple of obvious holding situations on the edge, one right in front of the ref that didn't get called. I thought it was a joke.
There is a lot more to a holding penalty than fans (and even coaches and players) realize. Officials are trained using terms like "material restriction" and "feet beat" when judging holding. It's as much looking at the feet as it is the hands. Most holds take place when the blocker is beat and you can tell that more by the feet than anything upper body. There also has to be an advantage gained. A hold by a receiver or end on one side of the field when a sweep is run to the other side is typically not going to be called because they gained no advantage by it. Or if the hold takes place at the spot where the tackle is made, again no advantage is gained and it should not be flagged. There's a lot more to it that involves seeing thousands of plays with these philosophies in mind to get a true understanding of what is and is not holding.


In that vein, our A backs and B backs tend to lean in as the ball is snapped (or slightly before.) What is the rule there? As long as they are not in a 3-point stance they can "lean-it" if their feet don't move? Is that right?
If anyone leans forward before the snap it is technically a foul for a false start. It makes no difference if they are in a 2-point or 3-point stance. An end or back or an interior lineman in a 2-point stance can shift into a new position before the snap or 1 back can go in motion after everyone has been set for a second but is not likely the case if someone starts to move before the snap. It's not something you want to nit-pick and you typically give more leeway the further the player is from the ball (i.e. the receiver near the sideline gets a little more benefit than the guard). If you see it you will talk to the guilty party and if they continue you may be more likely to call it.


When an O-line is a pass block situation (not in a 3-point stance), they can twist and turn and point, pick their nose, whatever. Right?
Yes but if they make a movement that simulates action at the snap it could be called a false start. Also, once a player puts his hand below his knees, he can no longer move that hand. Resting his arms on his thighs typically doesn't put his hands below his knees. The rule is worded this way so a players can't put his hand close to the ground and then shift. As long as he doesn't drop his hands below his knees or so something that simulates the snap, he's OK.


They might have been joking. Don't they use FBS conference officials in the semifinals and championship game since replay will be used?
The on-field officials are from FCS conferences. The replay officials obviously are FBS because that is the only NCAA level that has replay. My guess is the replay officials are from the Big 10.

[1998braves64]

When an O-line is a pass block situation (not in a 3-point stance), they can twist and turn and point, pick their nose, whatever. Right?

From what I understand any forward movement or movement that could be interpreted as moving forward would be a false start so a RB leaning forward would be considered a false start.

As far as oline picking their nose and pointing etc, I believe a lot of that happens before the offense is "set" this is the requirement that the players (except anyone in motion) have to remain "set" for 1 second before the ball is snapped. Usually why you see the QB call timeout when the play clock is running low as they don't have time to get the players set before they would be allowed to snap the ball. That is my understanding maybe our resident official IndyBison can confirm the actual rule requirements.

Indy beat me to the punch... he has much more knowledge than I do.

[56BISON73]

There is a lot more to a holding penalty than fans (and even coaches and players) realize. Officials are trained using terms like "material restriction" and "feet beat" when judging holding. It's as much looking at the feet as it is the hands. Most holds take place when the blocker is beat and you can tell that more by the feet than anything upper body. There also has to be an advantage gained. A hold by a receiver or end on one side of the field when a sweep is run to the other side is typically not going to be called because they gained no advantage by it. Or if the hold takes place at the spot where the tackle is made, again no advantage is gained and it should not be flagged. There's a lot more to it that involves seeing thousands of plays with these philosophies in mind to get a true understanding of what is and is not holding.


If anyone leans forward before the snap it is technically a foul for a false start. It makes no difference if they are in a 2-point or 3-point stance. An end or back or an interior lineman in a 2-point stance can shift into a new position before the snap or 1 back can go in motion after everyone has been set for a second but is not likely the case if someone starts to move before the snap. It's not something you want to nit-pick and you typically give more leeway the further the player is from the ball (i.e. the receiver near the sideline gets a little more benefit than the guard). If you see it you will talk to the guilty party and if they continue you may be more likely to call it.


Yes but if they make a movement that simulates action at the snap it could be called a false start. Also, once a player puts his hand below his knees, he can no longer move that hand. Resting his arms on his thighs typically doesn't put his hands below his knees. The rule is worded this way so a players can't put his hand close to the ground and then shift. As long as he doesn't drop his hands below his knees or so something that simulates the snap, he's OK.


The on-field officials are from FCS conferences. The replay officials obviously are FBS because that is the only NCAA level that has replay. My guess is the replay officials are from the Big 10.

Thanks Indy. Well done again!!!!

[gsu2583]

Good info there. Seems like all season we have been hearing from other teams how we should be flagged on EVERY play from scrimmage. Regardless of the outcome of this game, I think we will hear that a lot again.

[THEsocalledfan]

Good info there. Seems like all season we have been hearing from other teams how we should be flagged on EVERY play from scrimmage. Regardless of the outcome of this game, I think we will hear that a lot again.

Well, if I was reffing, you would get flagged everytime for no reason at all. Consider yourself lucky, punk.