Vigen play calling (again)

[LITTLEGUYSINGREEN]

I know we have all beat up on Vigen over the course of the past several seasons on his play calling. His play calling seems to go through peaks and valleys.

Anyone else notice how the last two games Vigen has taken us away from a run game that has been working and has called a pass play on almost every 2nd down. I rewatched both games and the predictability is alarming. Even the announcers were calling the "pass on 2nd down" and were questioning why we were going away from our bread and butter. Yesterday's game could have been a absolute blowout if we would have just stuck to the run on second down. It really started to show in the 3rd quarter when we couldn't seem to get anything done. A typical series went like this: run on first down and get 3-4 yards; pass on second down and get nothing resulting in a 3rd and long forcing us to pass; pass on 3rd down when the opposition knows we are going to pass and get nothing; punt on 4th down.

I usually sit right behind the team bench, and what really ticks me off is how Vigen treats the starting offense, especially the line, when they come off the field after another 3 and out. He rips into the line, cussing up storm, for not carring through on their assignments. Its unbelievable how he tears into the line. The F bombs are dropped in rapid succession, along with about every other cuss word you can imagine. He litterally "rips them a new one." I can't help thinking to myself while this is going on that it's pretty hard to block someone when the defense knows full well what play is going to be called. Now I'm no prude, I know full well that this isn't Pop Werner football and sometimes you need to light a fire under certain personal to get results but, I've always been from the school of "coaching up the players." I can tell from the body language of the players that the rip session didn't do any good.

Long story short, we need to stick with what is currently working (running the ball) and Vigen shouldn't take his shitty play calling out on the players.

[heffray]

I know we have all beat up on Vigen over the course of the past several seasons on his play calling. His play calling seems to go through peaks and valleys.

Anyone else notice how the last two games Vigen has taken us away from a run game that has been working and has called a pass play on almost every 2nd down. I rewatched both games and the predictability is alarming. Even the announcers were calling the "pass on 2nd down" and were questioning why we were going away from our bread and butter. Yesterday's game could have been a absolute blowout if we would have just stuck to the run on second down. It really started to show in the 3rd quarter when we couldn't seem to get anything done. A typical series went like this: run on first down and get 3-4 yards; pass on second down and get nothing resulting in a 3rd and long forcing us to pass; pass on 3rd down when the opposition knows we are going to pass and get nothing; punt on 4th down.

I usually sit right behind the team bench, and what really ticks me off is how Vigen treats the starting offense, especially the line, when they come off the field after another 3 and out. He rips into the line, cussing up storm, for not carring through on their assignments. Its unbelievable how he tears into the line. The F bombs are dropped in rapid succession, along with about every other cuss word you can imagine. He litterally "rips them a new one." I can't help thinking to myself while this is going on that it's pretty hard to block someone when the defense knows full well what play is going to be called. Now I'm no prude, I know full well that this isn't Pop Werner football and sometimes you need to light a fire under certain personal to get results but, I've always been from the school of "coaching up the players." I can tell from the body language of the players that the rip session didn't do any good.

Long story short, we need to stick with what is currently working (running the ball) and Vigen shouldn't take his shitty play calling out on the players.

i didn't notice the repitition in the play call, but i agree that usually that type of coaching doesn't work, especially if it becomes a habit, or a "well, here we go again" kind of thing. I think if it was every once in a whie, when they really needed a kick in the rear, which teams often do, it would go a longer way.

the play calling of vigen i cannot comment on, i don't know enough about football to criticize. we did win 24 - 0, we definately left some points on the field, but i thought that was more due to the uncharacteristic turnovers than anything.

[CAS4127]

I agree with premise of your post-->ya, no surprise I know. He was at times calling a very poor game, but he has wore me out and I just can't get myself to post at length about it, because it would have to be long post.

That said, I believe Vigen is up in the boxes, not on the sideline. I think he is supposed to see the field better up there-->I also think he needs glasses.

[56BISON73]

I know we have all beat up on Vigen over the course of the past several seasons on his play calling. His play calling seems to go through peaks and valleys.

Anyone else notice how the last two games Vigen has taken us away from a run game that has been working and has called a pass play on almost every 2nd down. I rewatched both games and the predictability is alarming. Even the announcers were calling the "pass on 2nd down" and were questioning why we were going away from our bread and butter. Yesterday's game could have been a absolute blowout if we would have just stuck to the run on second down. It really started to show in the 3rd quarter when we couldn't seem to get anything done. A typical series went like this: run on first down and get 3-4 yards; pass on second down and get nothing resulting in a 3rd and long forcing us to pass; pass on 3rd down when the opposition knows we are going to pass and get nothing; punt on 4th down.

I usually sit right behind the team bench, and what really ticks me off is how Vigen treats the starting offense, especially the line, when they come off the field after another 3 and out. He rips into the line, cussing up storm, for not carring through on their assignments. Its unbelievable how he tears into the line. The F bombs are dropped in rapid succession, along with about every other cuss word you can imagine. He litterally "rips them a new one." I can't help thinking to myself while this is going on that it's pretty hard to block someone when the defense knows full well what play is going to be called. Now I'm no prude, I know full well that this isn't Pop Werner football and sometimes you need to light a fire under certain personal to get results but, I've always been from the school of "coaching up the players." I can tell from the body language of the players that the rip session didn't do any good.

Long story short, we need to stick with what is currently working (running the ball) and Vigen shouldn't take his shitty play calling out on the players.

I dont think Vigen is on the sideline. Hes up in the press box. You might be referring to the O-line coach?

[LITTLEGUYSINGREEN]

I agree with premise of your post-->ya, no surprise I know. He was at times calling a very poor game, but he has wore me out and I just can't get myself to post at length about it, because it would have to be long post.

That said, I believe Vigen is up in the boxes, not on the sideline. I think he is supposed to see the field better up there-->I also think he needs glasses.

My bad, looked at the coaches pictures and it is Tim Polasek who does the riping.

[mgbison]

Nobody is ever gonna be happy with the plays the oc calls. Every message board you go to its the same thing, nobody is ever happy with the oc.

The first post just goes to show how clueless some people are. Vigen is up in the press box, if anything it's probably Fuchs getting after the olineman.

[Snowgoose]

I have also had my fair share of criticism for Vigen. I honestly really liked our offense the first half of the year, but we have become very predictable the last half. Although, I will say the first half yesterday the play calling seemed pretty good, but the players (mainly seniors) did not execute or flat out fumbled the ball.

The last two games both times the announcers have questioned the play calling. Even at the end of the third start of the fourth he ran three straight passes when we were up 17 and the announcers were wondering what was going on considering we were averaging 6 yards a carry. I could go on and on so I better just stop.

[CAS4127]

Polasek: There was just an article about him in the Foolem. He coaches with lit of emotion and the players are accustomed to him and like him alot.

Vigen claim to coach on intellect, not emotion-->bahahahahahaha!!

[TateMosersneighbor]

I really like when he calls the play where our QB keeps it and runs to the right and gets tackled. Especially since our QB has turf toe.

[56BISON73]

There was just an article about him in the Foolem. He coaches with lit of emotion and the players are accustomed to him and like him alot.

Vigen claim to coach on intellect, not emotion-->bahahahahahaha!!

3 fade routes in a row to the ez corner?

[CAS4127]

[QUOTE=56BISON73;572780]3 fade routes in a row to the ez corner?

I was talkin about Polasek in my post, PL. I known the sequence you are describing. Actually two of the three were out patterns to Velldom (insert facepalm). Meanwhile a post pattern would have been open 4 him, espcially a higher placed ball, as he had about 4 inches I the defender.

[RRVBISON]

I noticed the second down pass plays also. The people that sit around me were talking about it also. If the untrained eye can pick it up I'm sure it takes no time for a coach to pick it up. This should be an easy fix.

[bisontown]

How bout if Veldman would have run a corner route like he was supposed to instead of running a seam, it would have been a touchdown both times. These plays were plays where we had to go to the endzone, if we were tackled in the field of play, time would have run out. I thought they were safe, quality play calls, the players just didn't execute.

And it was Vigen's fault that DJ fumbled on the 12 yard line? or that Holloway fumbled? come on guys, I have gripes with Vigen like any other guy, but it wasn't that bad, and not everything is his fault.

[CAS4127]

Ojuri- 8.8 per

DJ- 6.6 per

Nuff said!!

[stevdock]

Ojuri- 8.8 per

DJ- 6.6 per

Nuff said!!

You know football well enough though that you can not run the ball every single time and keep the defense honest. Did we pass too much last night?? I thought we did a bit, and while I was unhappy with a handful of plays I thought overall Vigen did at the very least a decent job. The score would have looked very different without the turnovers which had very little to do with the playcalling.

[semobison]

Anybody can be an armchair QB, so here is my take! Overall this season has been better because we have a passing game! When we are popping off 6 yards a pop in the run game it is easy for the fans to question why we would even be throwing at all......but...thats what the defense is expecting...as long as we are not too predictable I like the idea of throwing on 2nd and 4! In our best offensive games this season we have had pretty good balance, and IMHO we are going to need a good game from Brock this week! We are not exactly an offensive jauggernaut!

[LITTLEGUYSINGREEN]

You know football well enough though that you can not run the ball every single time and keep the defense honest. Did we pass too much last night?? I thought we did a bit, and while I was unhappy with a handful of plays I thought overall Vigen did at the very least a decent job. The score would have looked very different without the turnovers which had very little to do with the playcalling.

Yes but..............If you are having as much success at running to ball as we were on Sat., keep doing it until they stop you. In other words, force them to stop the running game. Unfortunately, the last two weeks, we've taken ourselves out of the running game.

[Gully]

Earlier people were complaining that we were too predictable and ran too often. I don't think the play calling was a problem. We won easily and the players left many points on the field with their mistakes. We're also missing Ryan Smith terribly and it shows.

[LITTLEGUYSINGREEN]

Anybody can be an armchair QB, so here is my take! Overall this season has been better because we have a passing game! When we are popping off 6 yards a pop in the run game it is easy for the fans to question why we would even be throwing at all......but...thats what the defense is expecting...as long as we are not too predictable I like the idea of throwing on 2nd and 4! In our best offensive games this season we have had pretty good balance, and IMHO we are going to need a good game from Brock this week! We are not exactly an offensive jauggernaut!

I agree with you, the problem is we are not that balanced right now. Brock is struggling as of late. So the second down pass hasn't been very effective. So, knowing this why try to pass when we are gaining big chunks of yardage on the ground. Like I said earlier, if the run is working, make them stop the run.

[BlueBisonRock]

Yes but..............If you are having as much success at running to ball as we were on Sat., keep doing it until they stop you. In other words, force them to stop the running game. Unfortunately, the last two weeks, we've taken ourselves out of the running game.

We have done a 180 from last year, but the message is the same. Focus on the run until the D moves 8 into the box, then work the passing game. If they stuff the box, throw. If they hang back like Lehigh did, run it down their throats. Take what the D gives.

BTW, LGiG, we are in complete agreement on this topic.

[yellowstreak]

do we have any passing plays with slants or crossing routes? Ryan Smith is built for the slant pattern, but we run him more often in go routes.

[Gully]

Good point. I do wonder why we don't throw any slants.

[semobison]

Believe it or not guys, sometimes the pass game opens up the run game! I like it when we come out throwing early in games and we have done it a lot this season! Late this season we have struggled somewhat with our pass game, but we are much harder to defend when we have offensive balance IMO!

[Bisonwinagn]

I agree with you, the problem is we are not that balanced right now. Brock is struggling as of late. So the second down pass hasn't been very effective. So, knowing this why try to pass when we are gaining big chunks of yardage on the ground. Like I said earlier, if the run is working, make them stop the run.

Exactly!!! Run the ball until the defense proves they can stop you consistently and then mix it up and pass as often as needed.

[Bisonwinagn]

Believe it or not guys, sometimes the pass game opens up the run game! I like it when we come out throwing early in games and we have done it a lot this season! Late this season we have struggled somewhat with our pass game, but we are much harder to defend when we have offensive balance IMO!

I'm fine with starting the game passing, but once you've estabished the defense can't stop the run and you have a big lead why would you go away from it and pass 60% of the time with the risks associated with it.

[perthbison]

We could have run every play yesterday and it may have been wise, however it pleases me to see them honing the skills of the passing game since we were going to win anyway. We may be in a game next saturday or the game after where an effective passing game is essential to staying in it and winning.

[Snowgoose]

Good point. I do wonder why we don't throw any slants.

I have been begging for this week 6 weeks now, but actually yesterday we did throw the ball to the middle of the field quite frequently and had some success doing it including the long pass to Holloway. I actually did agree that the play calling was pretty good except for that stint at the end of the 3rd beginning of the fourth when we did run the ball too much.

Also, the fade to the corner of the end zone appeared to be Veldman's fault as he clearly did not run that route correctly and would have caught Jensen's last pass if he had IMO. It does not seem like Veldman and Jensen are on the same page and it appears that Jensen does not really want to pass you the ball unless he is comfortable with you. He is clearly comfortable with Holloway and Smith, but beyond that he isn't and that could be the lack of reps with those receivers.

[semobison]

In 13 games this year we have passed for 179 YPG and rushed for 166 YPG! Pretty good balance!

[JustinTyem]

HE GUYS AND GALS.......................WE ARE WINNING TO THE TUNE OF 12-1. And people are Bitching about the Calls and player performance. GET OVER IT!!!! Did you play in a D-1 semi-finals??? I bet NOT!!!! Let them play and let the coaches coach. If they arent doing what Bohl tells them to do,they will be removed and find someone else to do it correctly.

[NDSUBowler]

Oh my God!! The coaches yell at the players...and....and....SWEAR!!! Say it aint so! These fragile souls cant handle the abuse

*purple font*

[56BISON73]

HE GUYS AND GALS.......................WE ARE WINNING TO THE TUNE OF 12-1. And people are Bitching about the Calls and player performance. GET OVER IT!!!! Did you play in a D-1 semi-finals??? I bet NOT!!!! Let them play and let the coaches coach. If they arent doing what Bohl tells them to do,they will be removed and find someone else to do it correctly.

:facepalm::facepalm:

[JustinTyem]

Oh my God!! The coaches yell at the players...and....and....SWEAR!!! Say it aint so! These fragile souls cant handle the abuse

*purple font*Nice!!!!! They arent playing Tinkly Winks or nothing like it!!!

[JustinTyem]

:facepalm::facepalm:Is this all you can respond with???

[CaBisonFan]

Is this all you can respond with???

Get used to it Justin. He's a part of the self-assigned editing staff here. PL...how's 'bout if ya give da kid some slack?

[JustinTyem]

Get used to it Justin. He's a part of the self-assigned editing staff here. PL...how's 'bout if ya give da kid some slack?ThankYou Sir,BTW-Thanks for all the video's you do. Im trying to watch everyone of the back in the day,so I can learn the History of Bison!!!:biggrin:

[BisonTeacher]

Run the ball!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[gsu2583]

Vigen play calling. Is that play calling without any meat or animal products?

[WYOBISONMAN]

Is this all you can respond with???

OK, I will respond with this. CAS knows just a little bit about football, a tiny bit about playoffs, and perhaps something about playing in games for a National Championship.......and you know what......CAS has a couple of teeny tiny concerns just like the rest of us.

[Bison Dan]

3 fade routes in a row to the ez corner?

Veldman was open both times. Brock just missed him. Good call. Open is open.

[Trampled]

I think the play calling has been very Vanilla by design. As long as we are ahead, no need to show much. It is a chess game in the playoffs. There are alot more plays in the book. I am no big fan of Vigen as OC but it is very hard to criticize 12-1.

[WYOBISONMAN]

I think the play calling has been very Vanilla by design. As long as we are ahead, no need to show much. It is a chess game in the playoffs. There are alot more plays in the book. I am no big fan of Vigen as OC but it is very hard to criticize 12-1.

I hope that is right!

[bisoningrandforks]

I think its been more vanilla since smith hasnt played......we need him back in a BIG WAY!.....would like to see efficiency like the Minn game or close to it....D is playing well....the O isnt playing bad...just needs to be better...

[CAS4127]

I have been begging for this week 6 weeks now, but actually yesterday we did throw the ball to the middle of the field quite frequently and had some success doing it including the long pass to Holloway. I actually did agree that the play calling was pretty good except for that stint at the end of the 3rd beginning of the fourth when we did run the ball too much.

Also, the fade to the corner of the end zone appeared to be Veldman's fault as he clearly did not run that route correctly and would have caught Jensen's last pass if he had IMO. It does not seem like Veldman and Jensen are on the same page and it appears that Jensen does not really want to pass you the ball unless he is comfortable with you. He is clearly comfortable with Holloway and Smith, but beyond that he isn't and that could be the lack of reps with those receivers.

The long ball to Holloway was not Brock's initial read, and not likely where is was supposed to throw the ball. Basically, Brock just said what the hell, this ball is going to the endzone and we will see what happened. In short, it was not Vigen's call. Two balls to Veldmen were out patters from what I saw, not fades. I don't think Veldmen has the skill set to run fade routes to the corners. In fact, you rarely even see NFL TE's run fade routes to the corner of the endzone.

But this is just my own .02.

[roper1313]

The long ball to Holloway was not Brock's initial read, and not likely where is was supposed to throw the ball. Basically, Brock just said what the hell, this ball is going to the endzone and we will see what happened. In short, it was not Vigen's call. Two balls to Veldmen were out patters from what I saw, not fades. I don't think Veldmen has the skill set to run fade routes to the corners. In fact, you rarely even see NFL TE's run fade routes to the corner of the endzone.


Looked like if Veldman would have finished running his routes instead of slowing up while looking for the ball those would have been easy tds. The second one seemed well thrown from mynpoint of view in the north endzone.

[EmeraldCityBison]

In the post game, Phil Hanson commented on several plays that the team hasn't run at all earlier in the season and how gutsy it was to do that. I suspect there are a number of plays that have been either kept secret or haven't had the opportunity to run yet. I expect the playbook to be wide open from here on out. We saw some of it Saturday.

I'd like to see more screens or short passes to DJ and Sam. I think they had 1 screen blown up and that impromptu pass to DJ in the flat that did some damage. Last year they were really effective with those.

[NorthernBison]

In the post game, Phil Hanson commented on several plays that the team hasn't run at all earlier in the season and how gutsy it was to do that. I suspect there are a number of plays that have been either kept secret or haven't had the opportunity to run yet. I expect the playbook to be wide open from here on out. We saw some of it Saturday.

I'd like to see more screens or short passes to DJ and Sam. I think they had 1 screen blown up and that impromptu pass to DJ in the flat that did some damage. Last year they were really effective with those.

While the playbook is extensive, the package that is installed each week does not have as many plays as you might think. Execution tends to be stressed more than trying to be cute and fool the opponent with trickery.

It is not unheard of to call something that wasn't in the week's gameplan but it is generally going to be done when there is some time to make sure that everybody is clear on assignments. Like during halftime. It is usually a play that WAS in a previous gameplan.

I'd go so far as to say that there is really no such thing as a playbook that is wide open.

[semobison]

HE GUYS AND GALS.......................WE ARE WINNING TO THE TUNE OF 12-1. And people are Bitching about the Calls and player performance. GET OVER IT!!!! Did you play in a D-1 semi-finals??? I bet NOT!!!! Let them play and let the coaches coach. If they arent doing what Bohl tells them to do,they will be removed and find someone else to do it correctly.

If we didnt have somthing to bitch about or discuss BV would be strictly a cheerleaders forum!

[SDbison]

I think the play calling has been very Vanilla by design. As long as we are ahead, no need to show much. It is a chess game in the playoffs. There are alot more plays in the book. I am no big fan of Vigen as OC but it is very hard to criticize 12-1. Highly doubt it. The weak spot with this Bison team is the offense. Inconsistent offensive performance (both running and passing) and lack of sustained drives. The offense leans way too much on the defense to come up with plays to turn the field around and the offense does too many 3 or 6 plays and outs.......especially in the 2nd half when the defense needs a rest the most. The Bison have found a way to win this year, but they are not very dominent on offense. Need a good performance from NDSU's offense this week or GSU will tire out the defense and win.
Vigen is still a rookie offensive coordinator experience wise and I question how much of the 12-1 season is due to his wisdom versus player skill advantage.

[Bison03]

A thread about Vigen? Everyone drink. Seriously, I don't get the constant Vigen bashing around here. It's like Bohl has said many times that every guy that has coached his 8 year old's football team seems to think that they know how to run a better team and call better plays. I know we don't was just a "cheerleader" forum but we can give the guy some credit can't we? I mean come on. Its seems like if the offense runs a play that doesn't work, it's Vigen's fault; and if they do sombething that results in a big play, it was the natural talent of the players that overcame Vigen's stupidity. For an OC of a 12-1 team, he sure get's a lot of crap thrown his way.

[CAS4127]

A thread about Vigen? Everyone drink. Seriously, I don't get the constant Vigen bashing around here. It's like Bohl has said many times that every guy that has coached his 8 year old's football team seems to think that they know how to run a better team and call better plays. I know we don't was just a "cheerleader" forum but we can give the guy some credit can't we? I mean come on. Its seems like if the offense runs a play that doesn't work, it's Vigen's fault; and if they do sombething that results in a big play, it was the natural talent of the players that overcame Vigen's stupidity. For an OC of a 12-1 team, he sure get's a lot of crap thrown his way.

I know-->amazing. You would think an OC for team that is 12-1 would be on the short list for several HC jobs rather than being criticized by fans of the 12-1 team. Not only that, he has been criticized for the same reasons since becoming the OC and coaching the QB's. People should be able to see him for what he really is after all this time.

[bisonaudit]

It looked like the players were really amped up early and that led to some sloppy play and turnovers. I think it was pretty astute coaching to run that misdirection behind the back pitch thing in the 2nd quarter. Players love gadget plays. It seemed to relax them and get them into a mode where they were just playing football.

I know there's been a lot said about throwing too much on the last scoring drive, but when we got it was still the 3rd quarter and the lead was only 17 against an explosive offense. You can't take your foot off the gas there, you've got to stick with the game plan. We took possession on the 20, if you run it three times and punt you've put them on a short field with 15 minutes to play. That's not smart football. I'm happy that we've got a ball control QB that you can trust in those situations. That 16 play 80 yard drive ran 8:24 off the clock and despite complaints the run/pass ratio was 8:8.

[semobison]

It looked like the players were really amped up early and that led to some sloppy play and turnovers. I think it was pretty astute coaching to run that misdirection behind the back pitch thing in the 2nd quarter. Players love gadget plays. It seemed to relax them and get them into a mode where they were just playing football.

I know there's been a lot said about throwing too much on the last scoring drive, but when we got it was still the 3rd quarter and the lead was only 17 against an explosive offense. You can't take your foot off the gas there, you've got to stick with the game plan. We took possession on the 20, if you run it three times and punt you've put them on a short field with 15 minutes to play. That's not smart football. I'm happy that we've got a ball control QB that you can trust in those situations. That 16 play 80 yard drive ran 8:24 off the clock and despite complaints the run/pass ratio was 8:8.

Agree, we sometimes get conservative with the lead! Stick to the game plan! Watching the Montana-UNI game that is what impressed me about the Griz in the 3rd qtr. They had a nice lead, but were taking shots down field on 2nd and short and got big plays! They went for the jugular and put UNI away!

[Bison"FANatic"]

The thing that gets me is in the hurry up offense. It happened this weekend at the end of the half just as it happened at SDSU. The use of the TO. This weekend we complete the pass to DJ for 13 yards to the 13 yard line with 25 seconds left and it is a first down so the clock stops to reset the chains as it was a first down and we take a time out as they didn't get a play in. Then we come out of the time out and have to hurry to the line and just about run out of time. The kids can compete and perform the plays but you have to GET THE DAMN PLAY IN TO THEM and be able to make a decision and get it into them with time.

[NDSU92]

The thing that gets me is in the hurry up offense. It happened this weekend at the end of the half just as it happened at SDSU. The use of the TO. This weekend we complete the pass to DJ for 13 yards to the 13 yard line with 25 seconds left and it is a first down so the clock stops to reset the chains as it was a first down and we take a time out as they didn't get a play in. Then we come out of the time out and have to hurry to the line and just about run out of time. The kids can compete and perform the plays but you have to GET THE DAMN PLAY IN TO THEM and be able to make a decision and get it into them with time.

Noticed this and made a comment to the guy next to me at the game that the exact thing happened at SDSU. Do we not have a hurry up offense?!? What happens if we're down late in the fourth?

[BisonNeil]

Ell
I know we have all beat up on Vigen over the course of the past several seasons on his play calling. His play calling seems to go through peaks and valleys.

Anyone else notice how the last two games Vigen has taken us away from a run game that has been working and has called a pass play on almost every 2nd down. I rewatched both games and the predictability is alarming. Even the announcers were calling the "pass on 2nd down" and were questioning why we were going away from our bread and butter. Yesterday's game could have been a absolute blowout if we would have just stuck to the run on second down. It really started to show in the 3rd quarter when we couldn't seem to get anything done. A typical series went like this: run on first down and get 3-4 yards; pass on second down and get nothing resulting in a 3rd and long forcing us to pass; pass on 3rd down when the opposition knows we are going to pass and get nothing; punt on 4th down.

I usually sit right behind the team bench, and what really ticks me off is how Vigen treats the starting offense, especially the line, when they come off the field after another 3 and out. He rips into the line, cussing up storm, for not carring through on their assignments. Its unbelievable how he tears into the line. The F bombs are dropped in rapid succession, along with about every other cuss word you can imagine. He litterally "rips them a new one." I can't help thinking to myself while this is going on that it's pretty hard to block someone when the defense knows full well what play is going to be called. Now I'm no prude, I know full well that this isn't Pop Werner football and sometimes you need to light a fire under certain personal to get results but, I've always been from the school of "coaching up the players." I can tell from the body language of the players that the rip session didn't do any good.

Long story short, we need to stick with what is currently working (running the ball) and Vigen shouldn't take his shitty play calling out on the players.

Well, I am not a big Vigen fan but he isn't on the sideline only Fuchs talks to OL, Polasek will rip into RBs and TEs, so I don't know what the hell you think you are seeing or if you are making it up..

[CAS4127]

Ell

Well, ViI am not a big Vigen fan but he isn't on the sideline only Fuchs talks to OL, Polasek will rip into RBs and TEs, so I don't know what the hell you think you are seeing or if you are making it up..

Yep, already covered BNeil.

[gizmo]

Run the ball!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mega Dittos!

[stevdock]

Something else to think about are we calling two or three plays in the huddle and then telling Brock to pick the one based on what he sees?? We all know Brock is calling audibles at times, so I'm curious if that is the case. I had heard that was the case under Perles especially with Walker.

[CaBisonFan]

Our offense is strictly middle-of-the-road.

We have...questionable but somewhat improved wtf OC work...mucho injuries to receivers...a gimpy QB...and more. Our best plan is to keep running the ball as we have...throw an occasional pass...sustain drives...and say our prayers. Some wrinkles in the playbook would be most appreciated, but our bread and butter is running the ball...and will remain so.

We need to stretch the field 2 or 3 times a game...hope for great special teams play...and play stunning defense...literally.

As I've said before...Sam is our ticket to Frisco. He is the difference.

[TransAmBison]

I was in complete disbelief in the first quarter when we kept passing the ball. I figured Lehigh would fold under a constant pounding of a run scheme. I figured we should run early, run often and not let up. I even question the logic of the deep pass to Holloway for the touchdown. I'm glad it worked, but was nervous it would slow the momentum our run game was creating.

[Bison4ever56]

Usually part of the game plan is to package two plays together in an AUTO, and call the best play at the line of scrimmage. We did it with Perles, I'm sure they still do

When we go into a two minute offense, the quarterback will call the plays at the line of scrimmage. After a time out or dead ball, the play comes from the sideline.

[TransAmBison]

Our offense is strictly middle-of-the-road.

We have...questionable but somewhat improved wtf OC work...mucho injuries to receivers...a gimpy QB...and more. Our best plan is to keep running the ball as we have...throw an occasional pass...sustain drives...and say our prayers. Some wrinkles in the playbook would be most appreciated, but our bread and butter is running the ball...and will remain so.

We need to stretch the field 2 or 3 times a game...hope for great special teams play...and play stunning defense...literally.

As I've said before...Sam is our ticket to Frisco. He is the difference.I respectfully disagree. Our ticket is the defense. Not one player...the whole defense...and that isn't giving the offense enough credit. There is no star player on this team that we would be lost without...maybe Jensen...maybe not. This team has chemistry...dare I say swagger. Some might even say clutch. AG could even say, "Who's your daddy?"

[CaBisonFan]

PS - After we win Saturday we'll have some real time to heal. The layoff would be good for our side.

[CAS4127]

Usually part of the game plan is to package two plays together in an AUTO, and call the best play at the line of scrimmage. We did it with Perles, I'm sure they still do

When we go into a two minute offense, the quarterback will call the plays at the line of scrimmage. After a time out or dead ball, the play comes from the sideline.

I am not buying any of this except that we may have done it with Perles. I just don't see it happening on the field the way you describe it. Vigen oftentimes has has a difficult time getting one play in on time. 2 AT A TIME??!!

[CaBisonFan]

I respectfully disagree. Our ticket is the defense. Not one player...the whole defense...and that isn't giving the offense enough credit. There is no star player on this team that we would be lost without...maybe Jensen...maybe not. This team has chemistry...dare I say swagger. Some might even say clutch. AG could even say, "Who's your daddy?"

I agree totally about the team thing...but I see Sam as being our edge on offense. His healthy legs and downhill style give us something that a lot of teams don't have.

But you're absolutely correct. Without a great team concept...we've already packed our equipment up for the year.

[BisonTeacher]

I hope that is right!

Me too. If that is the case I will take it all back!

[Answer Guy]

This team has chemistry...dare I say swagger. Some might even say clutch. AG could even say, "Who's your daddy?"

Yes, I could say that.



(Unless that would be considered "grab-ass")

[Bison4ever56]

I am not buying any of this except that we may have done it with Perles. I just don't see it happening on the field the way you describe it. Vigen oftentimes has has a difficult time getting one play in on time. 2 AT A TIME??!!

The AUTO is not something you would see from the stands. It is something called in the cadence.

With the 2 minute drill, you might see the QB signal and/or talk to the offense.

[BisonTeacher]

Sam is our ticket to Frisco.



I see Sam as being our edge on offense.

OK...just to be clear hear...you mean Sam....Ojuri right? There;s been a lot of talk about other Sams on here this past weekend. :biggrin:

[TransAmBison]

OK...just to be clear hear...you mean Sam....Ojuri right? There;s been a lot of talk about other Sams on here this past weekend. :biggrin:The other one is THE Sam.

[CAS4127]

The AUTO is not something you would see from the stands. It is something called in the cadence.

With the 2 minute drill, you might see the QB signal and/or talk to the offense.

I didn't mean "see" in the literal sense, I meant how I see the play being run. For example, sometimes a run play is called, but not necessarily the direction, and the QB will use a color call at the LOS for that. As for two distinct plays being called-->ain't happening from what I "see".

P.S. I know how two-minute drills operate.

[bisonhp330]

dang it- when did this happen? ......I thought Obama was the cause of all things bad and evil. Its Vigen now?

[bisonaudit]

I was in complete disbelief in the first quarter when we kept passing the ball. I figured Lehigh would fold under a constant pounding of a run scheme. I figured we should run early, run often and not let up. I even question the logic of the deep pass to Holloway for the touchdown. I'm glad it worked, but was nervous it would slow the momentum our run game was creating.

We passed the ball 7 times in Q1. We ran it 8.

Q1 Q2 Q3 Q4 Tot
Run 8 11 4 13 36
Pass 7 9 5 7 28

If you remove the final possession of Q2 (4 passes w/ less than 1:00 remaining) and the last possession of the game (6 runs with a 4 score lead). You get 30 runs against 24 passes. What's not to like about this kind of balance?

There was a possession in the 2nd quarter where we ran it 10 times in a row. I'm not sitting in the booth or anything but, they've got a D-coordinator, perhaps he made some adjustments to his defense in light of that sequence which necessitated/allowed lower risk passing opportunities for NDSU in the second half.

[TransAmBison]

We passed the ball 7 times in Q1. We ran it 8.

Q1 Q2 Q3 Q4 Tot
Run 8 11 4 13 36
Pass 7 9 5 7 28

If you remove the final possession of Q2 (4 passes w/ less than 1:00 remaining) and the last possession of the game (6 runs with a 4 score lead). You get 30 runs against 24 passes. What's not to like about this kind of balance?

There was a possession in the 2nd quarter where we ran it 10 times in a row. I'm not sitting in the booth or anything but, they've got a D-coordinator, perhaps he made some adjustments to his defense in light of that sequence which necessitated/allowed lower risk passing opportunities for NDSU in the second half.What's not to like? See 1st quarter and get back to me. :D

[56BISON73]

Veldman was open both times. Brock just missed him. Good call. Open is open.
es.
Oh yeah he was open but I was shocked he called it 3 times. May be I should have been more clear.

[56BISON73]

Get used to it Justin. He's a part of the self-assigned editing staff here. PL...how's 'bout if ya give da kid some slack?

I dont believe I have been given editing powers as of yet. But thanks for the idea.

[AjaxTheMighty]

HE GUYS AND GALS.......................WE ARE WINNING TO THE TUNE OF 12-1. And people are Bitching about the Calls and player performance. GET OVER IT!!!! Did you play in a D-1 semi-finals??? I bet NOT!!!! Let them play and let the coaches coach. If they arent doing what Bohl tells them to do,they will be removed and find someone else to do it correctly.

Did you ever ref in a D-1 college football game??? I bet NOT!!!! Let the refs ref. If they aren't doing what the NCAA tells them to do they will be removed and find someone else to do it correctly.

[BisonNeil]

I know-->amazing. You would think an OC for team that is 12-1 would be on the short list for several HC jobs rather than being criticized by fans of the 12-1 team. Not only that, he has been criticized for the same reasons since becoming the OC and coaching the QB's. People should be able to see him for what he really is after all this time.

My scarcasm meter just pegged. You bent the feakin' needle, and it's digital! How the heck did you do that?

[GradBison]

fleaflicker!

[CAS4127]

fleaflicker!

= Desperation

to get us out of the disaster he had created previously!!

[Bison06]

= Desperation

to get us out of the disaster he had created previously!!

I've never seen "trick" plays as desperation. I think a good OC should mix plays like the flea flicker in to keep the secondary honest and maybe a step slower in providing run support. I wouldn't mind calling 2-3 "trick" plays a game.

[CAS4127]

I've never seen "trick" plays as desperation. I think a good OC should mix plays like the flea flicker in to keep the secondary honest and maybe a step slower in providing run support. I wouldn't mind calling 2-3 "trick" plays a game.

Depends on the timing, score, and how you otherwise have been playing/coaching. In this instance, I will stick with desperation, but I understand your position.

[BisonCountry]

#83


Ooooppppppssss.....wrong thread.

[Bison06]

Depends on the timing, score, and how you otherwise have been playing/coaching. In this instance, I will stick with desperation, but I understand your position.

Agreed with the bolded. I don't remember all of the details of when we ran the flea flicker in the game so you may very well be right.

[standandyell]

Vigen was rediculous last saturday. Throwing on 1st and 2nd down with a 17 point lead and a running game they cant stop. What happened to imposing your will on the opponent?? All he was doing was giving Lehigh an opportunity for an interception. I an those around me were stunned.

[tony]

Agreed with the bolded. I don't remember all of the details of when we ran the flea flicker in the game so you may very well be right.

Ran it at least twice, right? Once against SIU and it seemed to open stuff up. Then again against UNI for a big chunk of yardage.

[stevdock]

Vigen was rediculous last saturday. Throwing on 1st and 2nd down with a 17 point lead and a running game they cant stop. What happened to imposing your will on the opponent?? All he was doing was giving Lehigh an opportunity for an interception. I an those around me were stunned.

Coach Bohl said that during this sequence they were in a double eagle defensive formation that apparently we had trouble blocking in the run game so to combat that they went with what he called safer pass plays. Short pass plays run well can be just as safe as a running play, it all comes down to execution.

[BisonTeacher]

How awesome would it be if we got the ball first...and went Option left...option right...option left...option pass TD. Sayin...we ran it first, we can do it too, we know how to stop it...good luck.

I know it would never happen...but it would be pretty cool.

[WYOBISONMAN]

How awesome would it be if we got the ball first...and went Option left...option right...option left...option pass TD. Sayin...we ran it first, we can do it too, we know how to stop it...good luck.

I know it would never happen...but it would be pretty cool.

In this day and age the Bison are not an option team. And, just because we ran it in the 80s does not mean this team is well versed in running it or defending it. Old guys like CAS (sorry Charlie ;) ) are the ones that remember how to run and defend against it.

Saturday we will see how we handle defending against it. My guess is if the defense is disciplined we will do fine. As for Vigen.....let's see what he calls.

[bisonaudit]

Coach Bohl said that during this sequence they were in a double eagle defensive formation that apparently we had trouble blocking in the run game so to combat that they went with what he called safer pass plays. Short pass plays run well can be just as safe as a running play, it all comes down to execution.

++++++++++

[Wacker_in_the_Hall]

This is the beauty of Sports Talk....we are in the Semi-Finals and the experts here continue to complain because they all could do better.

Good players make bad schemes work..great players make bad play calls work


Good athletes playing sound disciplined defense will be the key this week,

Bison will score over 30 points this week

[WYOBISONMAN]

This is the beauty of Sports Talk....we are in the Semi-Finals and the experts here continue to complain because they all could do better.

Good players make bad schemes work..great players make bad play calls work


Good athletes playing sound disciplined defense will be the key this week, Bison will score over 30 points this week

This will be the key to a win.

[CAS4127]

This is the beauty of Sports Talk....we are in the Semi-Finals and the experts here continue to complain because they all could do better.

Good players make bad schemes work..great players make bad play calls work


Good athletes playing sound disciplined defense will be the key this week,

Bison will score over 30 points this week

Last year you were saying bad players make good calls go bad, etc. Now, you want the players to make a bad call or scheme work. So, according to you, it's all on the players.

Sorry, can't have it both ways . . . . . . . BOX!!

[Wacker_in_the_Hall]

Last year you were saying bad players make good calls go bad, etc. Now, you want the players to make a bad call or scheme work. So, according to you, it's all on the players.

Sorry, can't have it both ways . . . . . . . BOX!!

Think about what your saying......bad players can ruin a good defensive/offensive scheme... (agree?) And good players are able to make plays even when they are put in a bad spot by the coaches. It can go both ways. Great athletes make great coaches

[CAS4127]

Think about what your saying......bad players can ruin a good defensive/offensive scheme... (agree?) And good players are able to make plays even when they are put in a bad spot by the coaches. It can go both ways. Great athletes make great coaches

Think about what I am saying???!!! How about this novel concept. Have a good scheme and call correct plays!!! Wouldn't it be amazing what good players might be able to accomplish in that world you find so difficult to imagine.

[SDbison]

Don't bother arguing with wack off.

[Wacker_in_the_Hall]

Don't bother arguing with wack off.

I like you, you make me laugh.......

[BisonTeacher]

How awesome would it be if we got the ball first...and went Option left...option right...option left...option pass TD. Sayin...we ran it first, we can do it too, we know how to stop it...good luck.

I know it would never happen...but it would be pretty cool.

I was kidding. I know we are not an option team. I was just saying how cool it would be and what kind of message that would be send if it happened. (Dreaming)

[BisonTeacher]

I am one of the biggest Vigen bashers on here. He called a great game today. That call on Brock's 50 yd TD run was genius.

[THEsocalledfan]

I am one of the biggest Vigen bashers on here. He called a great game today. That call on Brock's 50 yd TD run was genius.

Vigen was clearly the coach of the game. SD and CAS, please give him a break.

[BisonTeacher]

Vigen was clearly the coach of the game. SD and CAS, please give him a break.

I wouldnt go that far...I think the Defensive coordinator was the coach of the game. Having said that, Vigen had a great game plan.

[THEsocalledfan]

I wouldnt go that far...I think the Defensive coordinator was the coach of the game. Having said that, Vigen had a great game plan.

Disagree. We expect that out of the defense, but the offense really are the ones who closed it out.

[onbison09]

Tastes good! 1327

[LITTLEGUYSINGREEN]

I have to give him props, he stayed with the run the second half. Not so much the first half. I'm glad to see that he stuck with the run on those two long drives in the second half and didn't try to throw it on second down.

It was a very good game called by Vigen.

WE FRICKEN KICKED ASS!!!!!!

HOW DO YOU LIKE OUR DEFENSE NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!

[BisonTeacher]

Disagree. We expect that out of the defense, but the offense really are the ones who closed it out.

That team punted twice last week!!!! and put up how many points on the #2 FBS team in the country! Love ya TSCF...but I disagree with you. :duel:

[THEsocalledfan]

That team punted twice last week!!!! and put up how many points on the #2 FBS team in the country! Love ya TSCF...but I disagree with you. :duel:

I acknowledge there is room for disagreement on this. Would you agree that generally NDSU schooled them in coaching?

[LITTLEGUYSINGREEN]

I acknowledge there is room for disagreement on this. Would you agree that generally NDSU schooled them in coaching?

THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Nothing can stop us now!!!!!!!

[BisonTeacher]

I acknowledge there is room for disagreement on this. Would you agree that generally NDSU schooled them in coaching?

You bet brotha!!!! What a game!

[Snowgoose]

I have ragged on Vigen the second half of the year, but today he mixed up the plays great and did a really nice job. I think his play call of the Jensen run for 55 yds was the call of the game. He saw that play developing on tape and made a perfect call.

[LITTLEGUYSINGREEN]

Vigen did a great job.

Nothing to complain about this afternoon.

FISCO BABY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Wacker_in_the_Hall]

Vigen was clearly the coach of the game. SD and CAS, please give him a break.

And admit they are wrong?????????

[coloradobison]

good as spot for any....game highlights up on gobison... http://www.gobison.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=2400&ATCLID=205348638&utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=NDSU+Football

[WYOBISONMAN]

Good game ...... good play calling....

[Bison 4 Life]

I counted the ESPN announcers mispronouncing his name 4 different ways. Seriously.

[bisoningrandforks]

it was funny.....they called him Brent Veeeegin!....I didnt care how they were pronouncing it!....good play calling by brent.... MOST of the game!

[semobison]

Offense really rolled the 2nd half! This was our 14th game, a playoff semi final and we had a season high 314 rushing yards and a season high 451 total yards! Nice job coach Vigen and the offense!

[bisonhp330]

3rd and 3.......qb draw....was mad.....deep down the sideline on another third and short when we were running the ball....really mad.....then later he calls that end around to the short side for a tuddy.....and the 96 and 93 yard drives- not one pass on that whole drive. Adjusted and took it too them. well played.

[I'mWithNOSIB]

Are we sure Vigen was actually calling the plays? Some trickery, trying to throw throughout the first half. No sir, not much about that spells Vigen offense.

[iamabison]

Vigen called a fantastic game today, period. The QB runs and misdirection he threw in were perfect calls. If you're going to blame him for past failures, then you have to credit what he's done this year, and the job he's done with Brock Jensen. I wasn't sold on him coming into this year, but to quote Harry Dunne..."YOU'VE COMPLETELY REDEEMED YOURSELF!" No more doubting from me.

[Wacker_in_the_Hall]

Are we sure Vigen was actually calling the plays? Some trickery, trying to throw throughout the first half. No sir, not much about that spells Vigen offense.

I am sure it was Lee Harvey Oswald calling the plays

[TransAmBison]

I am sure it was Lee Harvey Oswald calling the playsVigen deserved every bit of criticism he has gotten...you and I both know that. With that said, he deserves a lot of praise for this game. This game was a work of art. When the game started I was all disgusted at why we were doing the toss sweep...we never get crap off of the toss sweep...and then he began phase two and all became apparent. Good times.

[AjaxTheMighty]

I agree with TAB. He does deserve all the criticism he has received this year. He has done a below average job of calling plays all year. With that being said, he did a great job tonight. Way to go coach Vigen!

[herdmember]

The playcalling was fantastic today.

[standandyell]

Vigen deserved every bit of criticism he has gotten...you and I both know that. With that said, he deserves a lot of praise for this game. This game was a work of art. When the game started I was all disgusted at why we were doing the toss sweep...we never get crap off of the toss sweep...and then he began phase two and all became apparent. Good times.

Yep, he set up the fans almost as well as he did the GSU defense. would have been a bit of a nightmare to coach the opposing offense. too many holes in the dike, not enough fingers.

[BamaBison]

Vigen lost me at the brock EWU qb end around on 3rd & 3 early.
Ndsu offense succeeds despite him, oh well.
Sure wish ndsu would go for it on 4th & 2 more when our defense is this good!

[DIBISON]

vigen not only lost you but also the GSU defense.
NDSU offense not only suceeds but improves week by week.
Ask JMU, Leigh and GSU how successfull it is to go for it on 4th & 2!

[BlueBisonRock]

vigen not only lost you but also the GSU defense.
NDSU offense not only suceeds but improves week by week.
Ask JMU, Leigh and GSU how successfull it is to go for it on 4th & 2!

Harrumph! Worst second FCS seed ever!!!


Laughing to the bank!

[NDSUFan_Sav]

I love the Brock TD similar to Jose's at MSU last year. That other one he had with brock on 1st and 20 after the hold and he picked up 13 yds on the fake pitch and ran.

[Twentysix]

I love the Brock TD similar to Jose's at MSU last year. That other one he had with brock on 1st and 20 after the hold and he picked up 13 yds on the fake pitch and ran.

Brock obviously learned a hard lesson on the final play last year.

He holds onto the ball like no ones business now.

[tony]

How about the reverse? How about the shuffle pass for the 2pt conversion? Which of you Bill Walsh's saw those coming? :)

Of course, it'd have been all for nothing without players who can execute. Brock threw two absolutely perfect passes and the shuffle pass looked like the Bison had run it 100 times.

If you still don't think Coach Vigen is a good OC, then I gotta think that there is anything he can do to change your mind. It's like the guy(s) who kept yelling for Coach Bohl to be fired because in 19 dickety 8, Miami torched Nebraska.

[BadlandsBison]

The shuffle pass? Every day we're shuffling

[Bison4ever56]

If you still don't think Coach Vigen is a good OC, then I gotta think that there is literally nothing he can do to change your mind. It's like the guy(s) who kept yelling for Coach Bohl to be fired because in 19 dickety 8, Miami torched Nebraska.

I'm glad there are people that think he is a good OC, because he is, and he is a good football coach period. I wish I could have been in practice and meetings throughout the playoffs, because I saw a simple game plan using only a couple different formations and personnel. I assume the staff planned to show only the basics on film until this game. Brilliant!

[SDbison]

Vigen was clearly the coach of the game. SD and CAS, please give him a break. I promise I will when the Bison win on January 7 ...........

[tony]

The shuffle pass? Every day we're shuffling

Hehe, funny guy. Meant shovel pass. :)

[BamaBison]

As long he calls the ewu qb end around, or call for a 4 yard out when its 3 & 6, ill remain skeptical.
this talent is succeeding despite him.
4th & 2 from our 38, 40 & we dont have confidence to call a play to get that 1st down in 1st half of gsu game?

18 yard punts dont help go for it!

[CAS4127]

Obviously Tony meant shovel pass. Anyway, I will give Vigen some credit for this game as a whole, but he certainly had some series where you just had to wonder what the hell he was thinking, and they were at critical times. The one thing I liked is that we kept our foot on the throttle for the most part, but, in large part, it was because our players were just bound and determined to get it done.

As for the shovel pass and and QB reverse pivot keep, I knew from the formations before the ball was snapped that we were gonna see a play we either had not seen before or that we had seen very little of this year, at least that is how I felt and what I stated to my Section 21 mates without solicitation for my comments. If I recall correctly, Brock's run came out of a doulbe TE, double WR formation with DJ linedup to Brock's right-->we rarely see that formation, and the only strength "tell" for the D is DJ's pre-snap position. It is otherwise a balanced formation. They cheated to DJ' side a bit, which is the objective of his positioning, and it was game on. I don't buy their coach's BS that a CB missed a blitz call. Which CB?? If it was the one on the side Brock ran to, he could have easily audibled to hit the WR and it would have been the same result. If the other side, DJ would have picked him up or he would have been chasing Brock down the field like the rest of them.

Long and short-->one relatively well-called game isn't enough for me to jump on the bandwagon. Plus, our OL and FB's dominated their front 7-8, which always makes an OC look damn good-->see, e.g., the 96 yard all-run championship drive!!

[THEsocalledfan]

My goodness, Bama, I think you need a little perspective:

1. "As long he calls the ewu qb end around..."
Yep, that was a terrible 50+ yard TD for Brock.

2. "...or call for a 4 yard out when its 3 & 6, ill remain skeptical."

Often, those kinds of routes need to be ajusted to the marker, so you can't be sure who made the mistake. Further, it is very possible no one else was open.....

3. "4th & 2 from our 38, 40 & we dont have confidence to call a play to get that 1st down in 1st half of gsu game? 18 yard punts dont help go for it!"

You really think Vigen had anythign to do with this? 4th down decisions are almost universally made by the head coach.

[Wacker_in_the_Hall]

Tony...truly a voice of reason ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

[CAS4127]

My goodness, Bama, I think you need a little perspective:

1. "As long he calls the ewu qb end around..."
Yep, that was a terrible 50+ yard TD for Brock.

2. "...or call for a 4 yard out when its 3 & 6, ill remain skeptical."

Often, those kinds of routes need to be ajusted to the marker, so you can't be sure who made the mistake. Further, it is very possible no one else was open.....

3. "4th & 2 from our 38, 40 & we dont have confidence to call a play to get that 1st down in 1st half of gsu game? 18 yard punts dont help go for it!"

You really think Vigen had anythign to do with this? 4th down decisions are almost universally made by the head coach.

To be fair to Vigen, it was 3 yards, but, it was also 3rd and 3, and we threw a sideline fade-type route for an incomplete pass when we had been successfully running the ball that series!!:facepalm:

[THEsocalledfan]

Obviously Tony meant shovel pass. Anyway, I will give Vigen some credit for this game as a whole, but he certainly had some series where you just had to wonder what the hell he was thinking, and they were at critical times. The one thing I liked is that we kept our foot on the throttle for the most part, but, in large part, it was because our players were just bound and determined to get it done.

As for the shovel pass and and QB reverse pivot keep, I knew from the formations before the ball was snapped that we were gonna see a play we either had not seen before or that we had seen very little of this year, at least that is how I felt and what I stated to my Section 21 mates without solicitation for my comments. If I recall correctly, Brock's run came out of a doulbe TE, double WR formation with DJ linedup to Brock's right-->we rarely see that formation, and the only strength "tell" for the D is DJ's pre-snap position. It is otherwise a balanced formation. They cheated to DJ' side a bit, which is the objective of his positioning, and it was game on. I don't buy their coach's BS that a CB missed a blitz call. Which CB?? If it was the one on the side Brock ran to, he could have easily audibled to hit the WR and it would have been the same result. If the other side, DJ would have picked him up or he would have been chasing Brock down the field like the rest of them.

Long and short-->one relatively well-called game isn't enough for me to jump on the bandwagon. Plus, our OL and FB's dominated their front 7-8, which always makes an OC look damn good-->see, e.g., the 96 yard all-run championship drive!!

Not sure why I am picking a fight with a former star Bision player that could kick my rear, but:

1. So he deserves no comments on some of the scheme things going into the game? For example, they clearly knew Brock running the ball was going to be big along with misdirection plays. (They must have seen some serious over pursuit.)
2. So, coaches should get no credit when players play inspired?
3. So, good play calling had nothing to do with not having to throw the ball on the critical Ojuri TD drive? For example, I thought the QB draw was a masterful call and was critical to icing the game.

To quote one of my favorite Bisonvillers, just sayin'.........................

[CAS4127]

Not sure why I am picking a fight with a former star Bision player that could kick my rear, but:

1. So he deserves no comments on some of the scheme things going into the game? For example, they clearly knew Brock running the ball was going to be big along with misdirection plays. (They must have seen some serious over pursuit.)
2. So, coaches should get no credit when players play inspired?
3. So, good play calling had nothing to do with not having to throw the ball on the critical Ojuri TD drive? For example, I thought the QB draw was a masterful call and was critical to icing the game.

To quote one of my favorite Bisonvillers, just sayin'.........................

I don't want to argue with a "socalled fan" so I won't. I'll just give you my thoughts.

1. From my experience, it is not uncommon to see very undiscplined and basic styles of defenses deep in a PO run, it really isn't. We use to see it alot back when we actually were deep in the PO's, but at least Vigen is smart enough to see that, so I will give him credit for that. But what about the discplined, more comlex D's we see routinely in the MVFC?

2. You're boxed on this one. Vigen's claim to fame is that he coaches with intellect, not emotion-->just sayin'!:biggrin:

3. You got me, the QB draw in the redzone was a good call, but we had run it successfully prior to that so I am pretty sure Brock audibled to it when he saw they weren't covering the center and there DT's were taking outside gap responsiblity when they did that-->NO??!!!! Hey, a guy's gotta try, right??!!

[BlueBisonRock]

I walked out of that game stating 'even though I want to comment about some first half calls, there is no way I can argue with the second half and scoring results. Advantage Vigen. He continues going in the right direction.

We may just have to promote a crow dinner for the BV Flag football game. Winners serve the losers. (Enjoy the crow kids.)

[BisonNeil]

I walked out of that game stating 'even though I want to comment about some first half calls, there is no way I can argue with the second half and scoring results. Advantage Vigen. He continues going in the right direction.

Can't argue with that. I agree with some of the first half calls, they made my head hurt, but he was at the top of his game in the second half.

[Wacker_in_the_Hall]

We are 13-1 Say what you want, Brent Vigen is an ex-Bison Athlete, and in my estimation a great recruiter and coach. Too many people here have too much time on their hands.

[TransAmBison]

We are 13-1 Say what you want, Brent Vigen is an ex-Bison Athlete, and in my estimation a great recruiter and coach. Too many people here have too much time on their hands.
And you would voice you opinion if you felt differently? Didn't think so.

[Wacker_in_the_Hall]

And you would voice you opinion if you felt differently? Didn't think so.

Please don't speak on my behalf.

[runtheoption]

And you would voice you opinion if you felt differently? Didn't think so.

Like this has ever happened. purple font and stuff...

[NorthernBison]

This is very entertaining.

I remember sitting at Dacotah Field watching the Bison roll over the competition in the 80's and listening to fans complain bitterly about the stupid playcalling. Why do we run so many dive plays? Just pitch the damn ball. There was even a guy whose nickname was "dive" because he always complained about the stupid dive play.

Deja vu. I might have already brought this up before. Oh well, see how things change? They don't.

On a more serious note, on Saturday, I was convinced we were going to do that QB draw on the 2 point conversion. Apparently, so was GSU. They bit hard.

[TransAmBison]

Please don't speak on my behalf.Correct me if I'm wrong. Notice you didn't do that.

[56BISON73]

Here we are in the NATIONAL Championship game and people will only give credit if we win this thing?
????????????????????????????????????????????????

[CAS4127]

Here we are in the NATIONAL Championship game and people will only give credit if we win this thing?
????????????????????????????????????????????????

I didn't say I would give him credit if we win!!! "Please don't speak on my behalf".

[SDbison]

Here we are in the NATIONAL Championship game and people will only give credit if we win this thing?
???????????????????????????????????????????????? I said that.........kind of a joke in a way. Really though, Vigen is still cutting his teeth as an offensive coordinator. He could lay an egg and screw things up bad in Frisco. Who knows? To really tell if he has the skill sets will need to be measured over several years.

[Go_Herd]

He approves. Keep calm and carry on.

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[56BISON73]

I said that.........kind of a joke in a way. Really though, Vigen is still cutting his teeth as an offensive coordinator. He could lay an egg and screw things up bad in Frisco. Who knows? To really tell if he has the skill sets will need to be measured over several years.

You said that? I was actually being genaric because some were still questioning his play calling and coaching. I think there was only one play that I questioned last game.

[phxbison]

I said that.........kind of a joke in a way. Really though, Vigen is still cutting his teeth as an offensive coordinator. He could lay an egg and screw things up bad in Frisco. Who knows? To really tell if he has the skill sets will need to be measured over several years. Well it seems to me it's been measured for a long time by some of the self proclaimed brilliant football minds on this forum. Look at the scores gentlemen, look at the scores.

[CAS4127]

Well it seems to me it's been measured for a long time by some of the self proclaimed brilliant football minds on this forum. Look at the scores gentlemen, look at the scores.

Ya, forgot, our defense has had nothing to do with the points on the board and the outcome of games this regular season and in the PO's. We didn't even need those 3 turnovers against GSU, nor the two D touchdowns against Minny, nor the big D TD against UNI!! Our only loss was when we were beat in the TO margin.

[SDbison]

Not going to waste my time. Everyone here is entitled to their opinion. Arguments valid both ways. There are plenty of cases where a coach rides the wave of success only to have less fortune the next year, i.e., recruiting not as good, too many injuries, lack of depth, turnover margin in opponents favor, etc. and things then go down hill from there. I hope this is not the case for Vigen and the Bison.
The offense has sputtered plenty of times this season. Many games could have been lost, even last week if it were not for the Bison D getting turnovers. I question Vigen based on his lack of experience. He is getting that now. Some good things happening, but not sure how much is due to him. Only time will tell after the mix of players changes along with the strength of other teams. What adjustments will be made? Hopefully we will start to see the offense do more so the defense doesn't have to always come up with the big plays.

[BisonNeil]

This is very entertaining.

I remember sitting at Dacotah Field watching the Bison roll over the competition in the 80's and listening to fans complain bitterly about the stupid playcalling. Why do we run so many dive plays? Just pitch the damn ball. There was even a guy whose nickname was "dive" because he always complained about the stupid dive play.

Deja vu. I might have already brought this up before. Oh well, see how things change? They don't.

On a more serious note, on Saturday, I was convinced we were going to do that QB draw on the 2 point conversion. Apparently, so was GSU. They bit hard.

Interesting. I have been going to Bison football games since 1969, and I do not recall any complaints about the veer offense, not even dive plays. So, I cannot say I ever heard anything that resembled a complaint from the fans sitting around me during the 80s.

[SlickVic]

We coulda shoulda woulda been up by 3 scores early if it wernt for veegs pussy footing around...at the end of the day the old Steve connley special power I formation got the job done...again...if anything throught this season I think that veegs as been to aggresive its like a great fighter when u have an exemptional defense u don't go out there and throw heat around with no purpose u pick your spots conservitivley and capatilize on others mistakes that's the formula...warren aka big tex who would still take heckendorf over him? Hello....hello? That kids mvp on offense in my opinion

[BadlandsBison]

Hehe, funny guy. Meant shovel pass. :)

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