Get Loud--- False Starts and Time Outs (signage-sticker)

[MAKBison]

Due to injurers, JMU has a young OL. IN addition, the FD will be the loudest venue for JMU this year.


The burning question---How many false starts and or timeouts can the Bison faithful cause?

Idea---Someone who sits on a rail should create a false start ticker (signage). Instead of the get loud barometer, which I do not think we can use in playoff football, let’s have the dome camera focus on the ticker. A game within a game, as they fans get to keep score of their contrabutions.

[Tatanka]

DjKyRo--is this in play?

Also, a simple message to fans on Saturday: it's OK to use your Outside Voice. In fact, it's preferable. BE THE DIFFERENCE.

[Tatanka]

Also, obilgatory:

ENGLISH, DO YOU SPEAK IT? :)

[DjKyRo]

DjKyRo--is this in play?


Not that I'm aware.

[tjamz]

Also, a simple message to fans on Saturday: it's OK to use your Outside Voice. In fact, it's preferable. BE THE DIFFERENCE.

Couldn't agree more! If you don't want to be loud, stay home and watch it on TV!

[MAKBison]

As I think about it, why not have a graphic (ticker) put on the big screens---each time the crowed is load and a time out or false start penalty is had, the ticker could be updated. It would be a great interaction piece for the crowed.

anyone know who is incahrge of such things and get this idea to them?

[roadwarrior]

We don't need gimmicks like this. Just be loud and win!

[Hammersmith]

We don't need gimmicks like this. Just be loud and win!
Correct. Besides, stuff like that is not allowed for playoffs.

[MAKBison]

Actually, I think this would be allowed in the playoffs. The "get load" message we currently use would not be---as I understand the rule. Anyway, if they are not allowed go back to the fan based idea---see above. BTW---someone was doing this at the UNI game---just need to make sure the Dome camera crew shows it after the crowed causes a FS or Timeout.


BTW RW and HS---Not to be disrespectful of your opinions, but we already use them. It’s just that the way we do use them is not as effective as it could be. No one who goes to a game can deny that despite the opponent and or the situation many still choose to sit and watch the game verses becoming an active participate. Crowed Participation has been better over the past few years; However, it can improve! Thus, we need to do something else to cause the other % of the crowed to get off their ass.

Note: you will get a % of fans at the games that are pure fanatics. These types will/do scream and bleed green and (gold or yellow---your choice). Not everyone who faithfully attends games are fanatics. However, these types of cues work to influence this none fanatic segment. These cues or gimmicks influence participation and gives some people whom otherwise feel it’s inappropriate permission to participate. The dome is load, but it will be twice as load when we get both types of fans on board, (there is no denying we have many conservative fans in in ND). BTW---There is a reason Pro teams use these types of production ie they work on about 3 different levels. Just saying!

[Hammersmith]

Actually, I think this would be allowed in the playoffs. The get load visuals would not be. And if they are not allowed go back to the fan based one, like someone did at the UNI game.


BTW---Not to be disrespectful of your opinion, but obviously we need something to get the other half the crowed off their ass. Note you will get a % of fans that fanatics and are going to scream bleed & green and gold or yellow---your choice. However, these types of cues influence a whole other segment of the fans. The dome will be twice as load if and when you get both types of fans on board.

1. Artificial Elements. Artificial elements (e.g., fireworks, smoke, cannons, artificial
sounds/noises, video board productions) used to enhance the experience for
participating teams and fans may be used by either team; however, such elements
(e.g., mascots, video boards) should not be used to demean the opposing team in any
manner or create an unsportsmanlike environment.

Using the video boards to keep track of false starts could be considered to fall under the demeaning/unsportsmanlike rule. I think the FFD/NDSU are playing it safe the first several playoff games until it's clear how much give there is in the rules. It's becoming clear that there is some leeway, but I don't think our people know exactly where the line is. Until they know, expect to see us follow the rulebook to the letter.

[Tatanka]

Using the video boards to keep track of false starts could be considered to fall under the demeaning/unsportsmanlike rule. I think the FFD/NDSU are playing it safe the first several playoff games until it's clear how much give there is in the rules. It's becoming clear that there is some leeway, but I don't think our people know exactly where the line is. Until they know, expect to see us follow the rulebook to the letter.

This is true. It's also true that we won't need them if last year's playoff crowd is any indicator.

[tjbison]

This is true. It's also true that we won't need them if last year's playoff crowd is any indicator.

There were only like 13K last year at RMU correct? If the playoffs bring out the real fans and that place is rowdy like it was and it truly sells out to 19.5K it will be UNI X2

Lets Hope!!!

can we hand out free Schnapps at Tailgate to get everyone loosened up a bit!!!:biggrin:

[Tatanka]

There were only like 13K last year at RMU correct? If the playoffs bring out the real fans and that place is rowdy like it was and it truly sells out to 19.5K it will be UNI X2

Lets Hope!!!

can we hand out free Schnapps at Tailgate to get everyone loosened up a bit!!!:biggrin:

Yes, yes you can. Just make sure you use a plastic cup of some sort. :)

[MAKBison]

I think this falling under the rule of being disrespectful is a stretch---not sure of course.

Apparently, cow bells and "YOU CANT DO THAT" chants are allowed, "that's another first down" is allowed, the MC telling the fan base to stand up and cheer is allowed!

Are other teams breaking the rules or are we being too conservative (ironic twist in the dialogue, when considering my other comments)

[MAKBison]

Where are the free Schnapps? I am def visiting that crew!!!!!

[bri-dog]

It should be nuts! I was there for the RMU game last year, and yes, even with the fairly low numbers it was pretty loud.

And all the "corps" seats will be sold; I hope all the "corpses" don't come... :biggrin:

[MAKBison]

It should be nuts! I was there for the RMU game last year, and yes, even with the fairly low numbers it was pretty loud.

And all the "corps" seats will be sold; I hope all the "corpses" don't come... :biggrin:


Last year was fun, but I would not say it was earblistering, we will see what differnce a full-house makes. I do think there will be several coprses there.

[tjbison]

Last year was fun, but I would not say it was earblistering, we will see what differnce a full-house makes. I do think there will be several coprses there.

The crowd at the RMU game was much more into it than normal, I noticed it right away, for 13K to make the noise they did was pretty impressive. No it wasnt record setting but it just seemed the more die hard into the game fanse were there, and also there were alot in my section that I hadnt seen before so hopefully we get that again

[MAKBison]

This is true. It's also true that we won't need them if last year's playoff crowd is any indicator.

I think this falling under the rule of being disrespectful is a stretch---not sure of course.


Tatanka---DO YOU KNOW THIS FOR SURE. I mean are you some sort of official or is this your interpretation? ( I ask because I truly do not know who you are or your status...it may be that you are in the know and if so I beleive you or maybe its your opinion--not sure just asking for clarification)

Apparently, cowbells and "YOU CANT DO THAT" chants are allowed, "that's another first down" is allowed, the MC telling the fan base to stand up and cheer is allowed! Were the Cats or that team with the ugly field fined warned about the aforementioned ----anyone know? I never seen or heard anything that would indicate these teams were warned sectioned or otherwise.

My point, are other teams breaking the rules or are we being too conservative (ironic twist in the dialogue, when considering my other comments-----maybe insight as to why we have so many conservative fans---its institutionally driven)

[roadwarrior]

The other teams are clearing breaking the rules.

[MAKBison]

The crowd at the RMU game was much more into it than normal, I noticed it right away, for 13K to make the noise they did was pretty impressive. No it wasnt record setting but it just seemed the more die hard into the game fanse were there, and also there were alot in my section that I hadnt seen before so hopefully we get that again

Being it was a holiday; I would bet that you are correct in that more of the Fanatic fan base attended. I would bet this is probably a good description of our regular games. approximately 2/3 are fanatics 1/3 are conservative fans.

Just think if we could get the other 6k who are not fanatics to join in. If it takes a gimmick or a production, I say bring on the gimmicks and the production!!!!

[MAKBison]

The other teams are clearing breaking the rules.

Or the rule is ambiguous and as such not really enforceable.

[BisonBabe]

See page 20 of the following document....http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/champ_handbooks/football/2009/09_1AA_Football.pdf

Granted this is the 2009 handbook but I am betting it is still the same

[Bisonguy]

Why leave it up to the interpretation of the NCAA officials that will be onsite?

Leave the bush-league gimmicks to crappy products like the Fargo Force or the SWAC that need them to get people to show up. I believe even the intro had to be approved by the NCAA last year.

[BisonBabe]

I sure hope my voice can hold up for the entire game....no clapping for me as I have a fractured hand.....damn hands are fragile' (think leg lamp from Christmas Story)...

[IzzyFlexion]

I sure hope my voice can hold up for the entire game....no clapping for me as I have a fractured hand.....damn hands are fragile' (think leg lamp from Christmas Story)...

Hot liquids.
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What?

[BisonBabe]

Hot liquids.
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What?

What does Dr Izzy prescribe..........Hot Buttered Rum would be tasty

[MAKBison]

Why leave it up to the interpretation of the NCAA officials that will be onsite?

Leave the bush-league gimmicks to crappy products like the Fargo Force or the SWAC that need them to get people to show up. I believe even the intro had to be approved by the NCAA last year.

The original point of the post is being lost in the discussion about if this is legal or not. Forget the legality for a moment---there is room for interpretation.

The point-----

I have been reading this forum for about 5 years now and I can say that a consistent discussion certainly revolves around crowed interaction or lack thereof. I think we can all agree that the dome gets noisy and fun, but the potential for more is there. The post is about using the playoffs as a means to change the culture to a positive end.

The time is now:
This playoff game and especially the next one (knock on wood), has the tremendous ability to be used as a tool to effect change.

If we want more interaction at the game, we must acknowledge that this game is a window of opportunity and utilize it accordingly. If we want to get the silent 1/3 of the crowed to participate, yelling at them to stand up, were yellow, willing it and or coming on BV and flaming will not get it done. I would venture to say if you are on BV you get it. Now, if you want to really enact change, let’s use what we know about groups and group dynamics and make SU’s social science departments proud. It not bushleague its sceince and markettng and both are proven to work.

If we want the crowed to scream gold (or Yellow, I really do not care which), We have to do more than just demand or will that they do it. If we want a yellow out, first we need to create an opportunity for people to be different, then we need to be sure our message is clear ;i.e., the means to participate. Once people understand what is expected of them and have them means to participate, we show them that it’s ok to participate---this gives them permission to participate. Finally, we reward them for participating---currently acknowledgement is the best reward one can give.

Thus, you have an event that is not normal (window of opportunity) Give the crowed 18k yellow hankies (the means to participate) verses expecting everyone to buy a new shirt---plus PL does not look good in yellow  . Next, Show shots of the crowed waving the hankies, get it on the news ect (permission to participate). Finally acknowledge the crowed for participating (reward)

If we want the crowed to stand up and cheer, we do the same thing. Create the window of opportunity (Playoff game). Give them means to participate, (a cue when to cheer). Give them Permission to participate (screen shots of other standing and screaming) and acknowledge the action (their reward). The offside timeout ticker accomplishes every aspect of the process.

Furthermore, it is not a punishment, taunt or tool of disrespect to the other team. It is an acknowledgment to your own fan base that they are active participants in the experience.

[Bisonguy]

The thing is, the fans at this game won't need any of that. It's like giving a behind-the-wheel driving class to F1 drivers. That's a much better concept for the season opener that can be continued throughout the season and encourage the knitters to get into the game.

And yes, showing a false start counter on the boards most likely would be viewed as taunting. It's an NCAA Championship event, and the site is supposed to be as neutral as possible. The result could be NDSU losing the ability to host subsequent rounds and the ability to host in following years. Risk versus reward isn't favorable for attempting it.

[A1pigskin]

The fans will have to be the 12th man. Get loud. If your not hoarse when the game is over you didn't shout loud enough.

[Hammersmith]

The fans will have to be the 12th man. Get loud. If your not hoarse when the game is over you didn't shout loud enough.
Or you know how to use your vocal cords correctly. My voice was fine after YSU and I think I was loud enough(not that it helped). Ask BBR to confirm(I made him jump at least once).

[roadwarrior]

Playoff crowds (note the spelling) for Bison games did not need any prompting from signs, video boards or any other means back in the 80s at Dacotah Field, nor did the crowd last year at the Robert Morris game. The fans that show up for playoff games are the ones that really want to be there, and they know that a playoff game is a whole different level than a regular season game. If you were at the playoff game at the Fargodome last year, you already should know this.

[MAKBison]

The thing is, the fans at this game won't need any of that. It's like giving a behind-the-wheel driving class to F1 drivers. That's a much better concept for the season opener that can be continued throughout the season and encourage the knitters to get into the game.

And yes, showing a false start counter on the boards most likely would be viewed as taunting. It's an NCAA Championship event, and the site is supposed to be as neutral as possible. The result could be NDSU losing the ability to host subsequent rounds and the ability to host in following years. Risk versus reward isn't favorable for attempting it.

ITagree (season thing), The thing is that we loose the window of opportunity by not using these games to create something. Its more affective now, esp if we win a NC. ( I thought whomever started it at the UNI game was very clever).

As to the rule, CATS and EWU are not prohibited from hosting a game and last year they had bells, a MC directing the crowed and everything else. The JMU game had crowed chants "YOU CANT DO THAT" after a penalty. If the rule is going to mean anything then it needs to be enforced. Question---if a fan were to have a ticker such as was at the UNI game would that be a violation?

I cannot see how it would be. ANyway, thats a rant for a differnt thread.

I hope whomever, had the sign brings it again!



Then after we win, everyone rushes the field. JK----but all joking aside, I don’t think EWU lost the ability to host POG either.

[BisonBabe]

The JMU game had crowed chants "YOU CANT DO THAT" after a penalty. If the rule is going to mean anything then it needs to be enforced.


For what it is worth I believe that was the JMU fans chanting ... they were pretty vocal and the game was at EKU...

[56BISON73]

ITagree (season thing), The thing is that we loose the window of opportunity by not using these games to create something. Its more affective now, esp if we win a NC. ( I thought whomever started it at the UNI game was very clever).

As to the rule, CATS and EWU are not prohibited from hosting a game and last year they had bells, a MC directing the crowed and everything else. The JMU game had crowed chants "YOU CANT DO THAT" after a penalty. If the rule is going to mean anything then it needs to be enforced. Question---if a fan were to have a ticker such as was at the UNI game would that be a violation?


I cannot see how it would be. ANyway, thats a rant for a differnt thread.

I hope whomever, had the sign brings it again!



Then after we win, everyone rushes the field. JK----but all joking aside, I don’t think EWU lost the ability to host POG either.

Artificial noise makers and homer announcers are totally different than having chants thrown out by the fans.

[Bisonguy]

Having the false start ticker would most likely be fine, the problem would be if they showed it on the video boards. That's where the "neutrality" is supposed to happen.

I can't say much regarding EWU and MSU, other than as soon as NDSU does the same thing there would be penalties handed out. The JMU chant isn't an issue either, but could be if they were being prompted by the video boards.

[tjbison]

Having the false start ticker would most likely be fine, the problem would be if they showed it on the video boards. That's where the "neutrality" is supposed to happen.

I can't say much regarding EWU and MSU, other than as soon as NDSU does the same thing there would be penalties handed out. The JMU chant isn't an issue either, but could be if they were being prompted by the video boards.

I think people are way to worried about them actually caring, MVFC rules dont allow and prompting to make noise either and every 3rd down they put the Make som enoise and the Decibel meter on the video boards, never been a fine for that. Monatana St last year played Hells Bells on Third downs to prompt the crowd, they had Thunder sticks and bells yesterday at JMU etc......

[MAKBison]

This is not the 80s, it not= Docotah field and I was at the RM game---the noise, it was OK---Plenty of fans still being the same old wallflowers. Again, the point is not about one game it’s about changing a culture that 1/3 of the fan base has (note the concept)


Let me ask you something RW

Do you agree that there is a large segment of fans that are extremely conservative?
If so ----Are you willing to try something new to change the conservative culture?

If not, that is fine, but why are you against those who would like to see change. Why so against this action



If you were taking the approach that this is a violation and could hurt the team that is fine, I can see the rationality behind that. However, you seem to be against it, just because----I don’t get that! What is the deal?

[KilldeerBison]

I believe it was the RMU playoff game last year where the FD security guy threw a Bison fan out and had another arrested. Don't make eye contact, yell too loud or stand on the rail, or else... Me, I'll listen to coach Bohl, STAND UP AND YELL!! (let the chips fall) GO BISON!!

[MAKBison]

I think people are way to worried about them actually caring, MVFC rules dont allow and prompting to make noise either and every 3rd down they put the Make som enoise and the Decibel meter on the video boards, never been a fine for that. Monatana St last year played Hells Bells on Third downs to prompt the crowd, they had Thunder sticks and bells yesterday at JMU etc......
ITA
The field is about rewarding those with a good record and those who have $$$$. I really do not think anyone cares about this rule so much.

I am out my Steelers are about on! Nice chatting with you all since I rarely get the chance to participate.

[4mcruenomore]

Dumb thread, and I hate it when people can't spell Dacotah Field properly. It's not Dakota and it's not Docotah or wtf ever that was.

[roadwarrior]

The people that basically sit there and watch the game and show little emotion (and there are a lot of them) are not going to change because of video boards, signs etc. If they are unable to get caught up in the emotion of the fans that are participants, they will most likely never change. Eventually these people will either get sick of getting upset with people standing and yelling that they will either finally give in and change their behavior or else they will stop attending games. I am not against changing the behavior of these fans. Its exactly the opposite. I wish everyone would stand and make noise when it is appropriate.

When these ideas may violate conference or NCAA rules, I don't want to see any of them happen. There is no rule about fans standing and yelling whatever they want. I don't know how that came into this conversation.

[BisonBabe]

At the last home game I made a point of letting the older couple in front of me as well as the older couple behind me know that I would be standing most of the game and that I get loud so if they did not want to deal with it they had time to relocate....I actively try to get others into the game but in a good way .... I treat my fellow fans with respect and expect the same in return. May only the diehard fans show up this coming Saturday ...

[No_Skill]

If this game is anything like the Robert Morris game last year, the crowd won't need any help.

[MAKBison]

The people that basically sit there and watch the game and show little emotion (and there are a lot of them) are not going to change because of video boards, signs etc. If they are unable to get caught up in the emotion of the fans that are participants, they will most likely never change. Eventually these people will either get sick of getting upset with people standing and yelling that they will either finally give in and change their behavior or else they will stop attending games. I am not against changing the behavior of these fans. Its exactly the opposite. I wish everyone would stand and make noise when it is appropriate.

When these ideas may violate conference or NCAA rules, I don't want to see any of them happen. There is no rule about fans standing and yelling whatever they want. I don't know how that came into this conversation.


I can respect that rational---Breaking the rules.

I would also agree that there are a few whose minds you will never change. Where I disagree is the part about the majority of those fans who will never get it. I would bet that most of those who are still not cheering are simple just learning and or need more atmosphere to get into it. Folks on BV need to realize that there is a segment of the fan base that does not live in the west wing of the FD. These peoples football lives start and end at the game. However, its advantageous for us who do live in the WWofFD, to get everyone (or as many as possible) involved. It is these types of gadgets that get those types of people involved. The bottom line is that if you want the dome to hit its potential you need to get those types of people involved.
If it is Loud with 12K, just think if we could get a few more K! if that takes using a ticker or someone elses lame idea I am for trying it (of course not if breaks the rules, which are not clear)

[HerdBot]

Fans of jimbo Madison U don't think the dome will be a factor at all. Its no bigger. They beat an .CS team last year. Don't realize we are much louder

[HerdBot]

I can respect that rational---Breaking the rules.

I would also agree that there are a few whose minds you will never change. Where I disagree is the part about the majority of those fans who will never get it. I would bet that most of those who are still not cheering are simple just learning and or need more atmosphere to get into it. Folks on BV need to realize that there is a segment of the fan base that does not live in the west wing of the FD. These peoples football lives start and end at the game. However, its advantageous for us who do live in the WWofFD, to get everyone (or as many as possible) involved. It is these types of gadgets that get those types of people involved. The bottom line is that if you want the dome to hit its potential you need to get those types of people involved.
If it is Loud with 12K, just think if we could get a few more K! if that takes using a ticker or someone elses lame idea I am for trying it (of course not if breaks the rules, which are not clear)

I think the rules only apply for a bidded on game. This is a home game and seeded. Montana pulled out all the stops. I think noise makers are ok but lets find out

[roadwarrior]

I think the rules only apply for a bidded on game. This is a home game and seeded. Montana pulled out all the stops. I think noise makers are ok but lets find out

No, the rules apply to all playoff games. As you can see in the quote below, noise makers are not OK.


2. Artificial Noisemakers. Artificial noisemakers (e.g., thunder sticks, cow bells, air
horns) shall not be permitted inside the venue, and such instruments shall be removed
from the playing and spectator areas at the request of the NCAA game representative.
Bands, or any component thereof, shall not play while the game is in progress (after
either team breaks its huddle).

[Hammerhead]

They showed fans using thundersticks before the kickoff of the game at EKU. I can't remember, but they were probably JMU fans so maybe that doesn't apply to visiting teams. ;)