Seeding explanations, please?

[SomeBeach]

Can someone please explain why there are FIVE seeded teams in the FCS playoffs? Four would seem more logical.... even eight could be arguably appropriate. But why five? And, why does the five seed go into the same bracket as the 1 seed? Seems like five should be in our (Bison) side of the bracket... leaving the #1 seed to only face (possibly) #4 and remaining teams, all of who would be arguaby weaker than #5? Is this just NCAA logic... and somehow, money MUST be involved....

[Hammersmith]

Can someone please explain why there are FIVE seeded teams in the FCS playoffs? Four would seem more logical.... even eight could be arguably appropriate. But why five? And, why does the five seed go into the same bracket as the 1 seed? Seems like five should be in our (Bison) side of the bracket... leaving the #1 seed to only face (possibly) #4 and remaining teams, all of who would be arguaby weaker than #5? Is this just NCAA logic... and somehow, money MUST be involved....

When the field was 16 teams, there were 4 seeds. When they expanded the field to 20 teams a year ago(25% increase), they did the same to the seeds. If we go to 24 teams(probable), expect to see a 6th seed added. The number of seeds will always be 25% of the total field(16 x 25% = 4; 20 x 25% = 5; 24 x 25% = 6).

As for the 5-seed being on the same side as the 1-seed, if you think about it, it makes sense. The top 4 seeds should meet in the quarterfinals if they all win. One of those teams has to face the 5-seed in the second round. The 4-seed is the least deserving by definition, so they get the 5-seed. Remember, the 1-seed can only face the 4-seed OR the 5-seed, not both, since at least one of the two will be eliminated by the quarterfinals.

edit: Oh, if they go to 24 teams, the 5-seed will continue to face the 4-seed, while the 6-seed will now face the 3-seed in the second round.

[SmellsLikeSamHumann]

should only be 16 teams, its almost becoming a ribbon handout.

[TQ16]

should only be 16 teams, its almost becoming a ribbon handout.

I agree, but after NDSU's success last year after being one of the last team's in it's hard to argue with the current system. I also like giving deserving teams the bye week.

[NDSUstudent]

should only be 16 teams, its almost becoming a ribbon handout.

The Big South and NEC deserved bids, 20 is fine but 24 is too many.

[SmellsLikeSamHumann]

im just thinking its a slippery slope when you keep adding and adding teams

[SomeBeach]

Thanks, Hammer... great explanation. Having eight seeds would still make more sense to me, but at least now I see how the #5's bracket location has some logic behind it....

[99Bison]

im just thinking its a slippery slope when you keep adding and adding teams

It's still about the least % of teams that make the post season in the NCAA.

[DjKyRo]

It's still about the least % of teams that make the post season in the NCAA.

For reference, 68/342 in DI college hoops: 19.88%

I think roughly 120 teams are eligible for at-large bids/participate in the FCS postseason, so figure 20/120 = 1/6 = ~16.7% So really it's not that bad.

Anyhow, point is that if that is in fact Lakes as some have alleged, he's been on the soap box of there only being about eight good programs in the FCS (which isn't exactly accurate), so the complaint of not wanting more teams in the postseason probably stems from that.

[90 BISON]

should only be 16 teams, its almost becoming a ribbon handout.

The problem with this is when the NCAA has playoffs the number of at large bids has to be equal to the number of autobids, so for every autobid added the playoffs need 2 more spots. One for the autobid and one for the equalizing at large.

[Strommer10]

If the IVY League will ever allow their teams to play in the postseason, they should get an auto-bid. Harvard is a pretty good team and they usually have one or two each year.

[DjKyRo]

The problem with this is when the NCAA has playoffs the number of at large bids has to be equal to the number of autobids, so for every autobid added the playoffs need 2 more spots. One for the autobid and one for the equalizing at large.

Is that true across all sports? There are only 31 autobids for MBB and 37 at-large spots awarded.

[TILIS-BisonFan]

Thanks, Hammer... great explanation. Having eight seeds would still make more sense to me, but at least now I see how the #5's bracket location has some logic behind it....
I
Don't understand how someone can't know this. I mean 4 only plays 5 in the nfl, nba, nhl, ncaab, and soon to be mlb playoffs. Let alone at every level of high school post season and pretty much every tourney format that doesn't involve professional tennis.

[Twentysix]

If the IVY League will ever allow their teams to play in the postseason, they should get an auto-bid. Harvard is a pretty good team and they usually have one or two each year.

The ivy owns an autobid. They decline to use it every year. The SWAC has never applied for an autobid therefore has never been rejected. And the PFL has applied for an autobid and has been rejected. The great west was the only other conference without an autobid.

[Hammersmith]

Is that true across all sports? There are only 31 autobids for MBB and 37 at-large spots awarded.
He should have said that the number of at large bids are at least equal to the number of autobids. The reason why the MBB tourney originally went to 65 was because there were 30 autobids and 34 at large bids before the MWC broke off from the WAC. Once the MWC qualified for an autobid, they should have gone to a 31/33 split like all the other tournies did(WBB, VB, etc). But the other major conferences didn't want to give up an at large bid, so they went to a 65 team field with a play in game.

In contrast, prior to the FCS field expansion, there were spots for a maximum of 8 autobids and all 8 were spoken for. When the NEC added scholarships and the Big South finally stabilized above 6 teams, both had a strong case for an autobid. But there were none available. The choices were to continue to deny the NEC and Big South, start rotating the autobids, or expand the field. Since the field was already maxed out, every new autobid had to be accompanied by a new at large to keep the total ratio 1:1. That got us to 20(10 auto/10 at large). For awhile, it looked like the CAA was heading for a split and the GWFC might actually hit 6 teams. If that had happened, we would have added 2 more autobids and gone to a 24 team field(12/12).



The ivy owns an autobid. They decline to use it every year. The SWAC has never applied for an autobid therefore has never been rejected. And the PFL has applied for an autobid and has been rejected. The great west was the only other conference without an autobid.
The Ivy doesn't "own" an autobid, but would get one if they applied. They are in the same situation as the SWAC. There are 10 autobids available and all 10 are being used*. With the shrinking of the CAA and the demise of the GWC, the return of the SWAC and Ivy to the playoffs is what will take the field to 24.


*AQ conferences:
1. Big Sky
2. Big South
3. CAA
4. MVFC
5. MEAC
6. NEC
7. OVC
8. Patriot
9. Southern
10. Southland

[NorthernBison]

Thanks, Hammer... great explanation. Having eight seeds would still make more sense to me, but at least now I see how the #5's bracket location has some logic behind it....

Seeding determines home field. It could get pretty dicey trying to seed too many teams. You can probably identify AND order the top 4 or 5. After that, it's a crapshoot.

[Hammersmith]

Seeding determines home field. It could get pretty dicey trying to seed too many teams. You can probably identify AND order the top 4 or 5. After that, it's a crapshoot.
Bigger reason: More seeding = increased costs. The more unseeded teams you have, the more matchups that are based on geography. Say NDSU & UND make the tourney in the same year. Also say that NDSU is a top-3 seed under the current system and UND is unseeded. The selection committee currently has the ability to send UND to NDSU for only the cost of a bus ride. If we went to an 8-seed field, it's likely that the NCAA would have to fly a team into Fargo and either fly UND somewhere else or fly someone to UND. Two cross-country flights versus one bus trip. It's the same reason that every other 64-team field only has 16 seeds except MBB.

[NorthernBison]

Bigger reason: More seeding = increased costs. The more unseeded teams you have, the more matchups that are based on geography. Say NDSU & UND make the tourney in the same year. Also say that NDSU is a top-3 seed under the current system and UND is unseeded. The selection committee currently has the ability to send UND to NDSU for only the cost of a bus ride. If we went to an 8-seed field, it's likely that the NCAA would have to fly a team into Fargo and either fly UND somewhere else or fly someone to UND. Two cross-country flights versus one bus trip. It's the same reason that every other 64-team field only has 16 seeds except MBB.

Good point. I was also going to make a comment about the $$$$$$$$. I forgot to consider the travel aspect. I was looking at it more form a standpoint of allowing the NCAA to consider bids and expected crowd if the seeded teams are gone. Kind of like happened last year.

[Hammerhead]

I thought they might have fudged the numbers on the seeds to get UNI and NDSU in the same bracket. However, looking at the championship handbook, the NCAA only forces teams to take a bus if the trip is less than 400 miles and even Cedar Falls is farther than that.

[bisonmike2]

It should really be 25 teams than that way the CAA can get all of their teams in the playoffs and then the rest of the country gets a shot too.

[SmellsLikeSamHumann]

bisonmike is right once again.

[SomeBeach]

I
Don't understand how someone can't know this. I mean 4 only plays 5 in the nfl, nba, nhl, ncaab, and soon to be mlb playoffs. Let alone at every level of high school post season and pretty much every tourney format that doesn't involve professional tennis.


Sorry for my ignorance, Tilis.