? on the celebration penalties

[HerdBot]

I've noticed twice, players celebrating while making a defensive TD or special teams TD. Luckily the refs were not idiotic but considering the MVFC Refs tend to throw more flags If you watch the play before half, 2 of the guys are raising their fingers as Williams is running into the end zone. Had they thrown a flag, that could have dramatically impacted the game. It's kind of a subjective call but is holding your finger #1 while running into the endzone, even if your not carrying the ball, a celebration penalty?

[TateMosersneighbor]

Glen Mason also was talking about MWills return possibly drawing a flag...I think diving into the endzone needlessly is a penalty now too?

Perhaps someone with knowledge of any rule changes could pick a few notable changes and describe them for us?

[aces1180]

Glen Mason also was talking about MWills return possibly drawing a flag...I think diving into the endzone needlessly is a penalty now too?

Perhaps someone with knowledge of any rule changes could pick a few notable changes and describe them for us?

Diving into the end zone when not engaged by a defender is now a penalty...However, two Minnesota defenders attempted to knock him out of bounds, so a penalty was not warranted on that play.

[bri-dog]

I think "needlessly" does not apply in this case. I'll watch it again here shortly, but I think he needed to dive to make absolutely sure he got in.

EDIT: Too slow...:)

[aces1180]

I've noticed twice, players celebrating while making a defensive TD or special teams TD. Luckily the refs were not idiotic but considering the MVFC Refs tend to throw more flags If you watch the play before half, 2 of the guys are raising their fingers as Williams is running into the end zone. Had they thrown a flag, that could have dramatically impacted the game. It's kind of a subjective call but is holding your finger #1 while running into the endzone, even if your not carrying the ball, a celebration penalty?

One could argue that they were alerting the kicking team to get ready for the PAT. ;)

[HerdBot]

Glen Mason also was talking about MWills return possibly drawing a flag...I think diving into the endzone needlessly is a penalty now too?

Perhaps someone with knowledge of any rule changes could pick a few notable changes and describe them for us?

I'm not talking about the last pick. That was the equivalent to sliding into first base. I'm talking about the amazing play before half time AND the blocked punt vs Saint Francis

[tony]

I thought Brock might pick up a flag for pointing into the crowd. Williams diving into the end zone definitely didn't warrant a penalty though.

[MNLonghorn10]

I thought Brock might pick up a flag for pointing into the crowd. Williams diving into the end zone definitely didn't warrant a penalty though.

that wasnt taunting...he was just askin if they were mad

[Bison"FANatic"]

The problem with this rule is it is Gray. The referee should not be put in the place of having to make a Gray decision on plays that have such a large impact on the game. What might be called one week is fine the next and so on and so on in my understanding a penalty could have been called on the INT before the half. For all of you that showed no emotion when Marcus Williams was waltzing in the endzone this rule is for you as you acted like you had been there before. For all of us that jumped up and down and god help us even raised our hands as we were excited as the players were doing then forgive us for hurting any gopher fans feelings that may have been around us.

If you think this is a good rule I challenge you to show no emotion on every outstanding scoring play the Bison make this year as this is the way you expect the players to act. Act like you have been there before and just smile and get ready for the next possession.

[CAS4127]

The problem with this rule is it is Gray. The referee should not be put in the place of having to make a Gray decision on plays that have such a large impact on the game. What might be called one week is fine the next and so on and so on in my understanding a penalty could have been called on the INT before the half. For all of you that showed no emotion when Marcus Williams was waltzing in the endzone this rule is for you as you acted like you had been there before. For all of us that jumped up and down and god help us even raised our hands as we were excited as the players were doing then forgive us for hurting any gopher fans feelings that may have been around us.

If you think this is a good rule I challenge you to show no emotion on every outstanding scoring play the Bison make this year as this is the way you expect the players to act. Act like you have been there before and just smile and get ready for the next possession.

I agree. It will be very difficult to "teach" or "coach" young college kids to hold themselves back, and, really, why should they provided it is not over the top???!!! Next thing we know, it will be a penalty to beat someone by more than 3 points and there will be an "everyone gets to play rule"!!! Sad!!

[bri-dog]

I hope they keep some common sense on this. I'm not a fan of players prancing/preening & diving into the endzone when no one is near them, but I'm not opposed to players holding up a finger or whatever. Well, depends on which finger, I guess.:biggrin:

What I worry about is that they don't call it all year, then pick some REALLY important play to call a ticky-tack penalty on someone.

[HerdBot]

The problem with this rule is it is Gray. The referee should not be put in the place of having to make a Gray decision on plays that have such a large impact on the game. What might be called one week is fine the next and so on and so on in my understanding a penalty could have been called on the INT before the half. For all of you that showed no emotion when Marcus Williams was waltzing in the endzone this rule is for you as you acted like you had been there before. For all of us that jumped up and down and god help us even raised our hands as we were excited as the players were doing then forgive us for hurting any gopher fans feelings that may have been around us.

If you think this is a good rule I challenge you to show no emotion on every outstanding scoring play the Bison make this year as this is the way you expect the players to act. Act like you have been there before and just smile and get ready for the next possession.

It's a ridiculous rule. I would think pumping your fist in the air is not a big deal but it's subjective. Is pointing your finger in the air a big deal? I don't think it is but if the ref is an idiot it could be a game changing call. And I agree with you completely. I jumped when I saw it.

[BisonNeil]

Glen Mason also was talking about MWills return possibly drawing a flag...I think diving into the endzone needlessly is a penalty now too? Perhaps someone with knowledge of any rule changes could pick a few notable changes and describe them for us?

It always has been. I have seen that called several times over the past several years but only when the player diving has no potential tackler around him. There was no way that MWill's play would have drawn a flag as he had two tacklers within a yard or two. A good no call and during the game the play by play guys said, no, he was covered by an opponent, so no penalty. He was more knowledgeable on this than Mason, in my opinion.

[IndyBison]

The rule change had nothing to do with what is or is not unsportsmanlike conduct. That is defined exactly as it always has been (unfortunately vague in many cases and thus not consistently called). What changed was the enforcement.

All live ball fouls by the offense are enforced from the basic spot unless the foul is behind the basic spot. The basic spot on a running play is the end of the related run (goal line when talking TD). Until this year, unsportsmanlike conduct fouls by players (the 22 guys on the field at the snap...not the guys in uniform on the sideline) were an exception to that rule and were enforced as succeeding spot fouls. The rule change removed that exception.

So now if a player commits an unsportsmanlike conduct foul before scoring a TD (i.e. dancing at the 5, unnecessarily leaping at the 3), the foul is enforced like any other live ball foul by the offense behind the end of the run. No TD, penalty enforced 15 yards from the spot of the foul. If he does something that warrants a flag after the TD, the enforcement is the same as it has always been. TD counts and the defense enforces the penalty on either the try or the kickoff.

Nothing stood out to me on the 1st half return so whatever he did I didn't notice it. It must have been pretty brief which is fine. If he has started pointing at the 15 and continued all the way to through the end zone, that would more likely draw attention.

[IndyBison]

It always has been. I have seen that called several times over the past several years but only when the player diving has no potential tackler around him. There was no way that MWill's play would have drawn a flag as he had two tacklers within a yard or two. A good no call and during the game the play by play guys said, no, he was covered by an opponent, so no penalty. He was more knowledgeable on this than Mason, in my opinion.
You are correct. That wasn't even close to a foul. Watching the replay he could have probably made it to the end zone without the dive but there was nothing unsportsmanlike about his actions with defenders very close.

[Bison"FANatic"]

Nothing stood out to me on the 1st half return so whatever he did I didn't notice it. It must have been pretty brief which is fine. If he has started pointing at the 15 and continued all the way to through the end zone, that would more likely draw attention.

It wasn't Williams that was pointing it was players behind him running with there fingers in the air pointing. Would that be enough to draw a penalty or does it take more than that???????

[IndyBison]

It wasn't Williams that was pointing it was players behind him running with there fingers in the air pointing. Would that be enough to draw a penalty or does it take more than that???????
Unless they do something directed at an opponent (i.e. get in his face and taunt, throat slash toward a sideline) or something so outrageous (i.e. start doing cartwheels down the middle of the field) it's very unlikely going to be called.

[BisonAccountant44]

I agree. It will be very difficult to "teach" or "coach" young college kids to hold themselves back, and, really, why should they provided it is not over the top???!!! Next thing we know, it will be a penalty to beat someone by more than 3 points and there will be an "everyone gets to play rule"!!! Sad!!

Give it time they'll get there. First they have to stop all those youth soccer coachs who let their teams go up by more than 6. Than they'll come for football.


Don’t run up the score
There will certainly be times that you are on both sides of winning a lopsided game or losing a lopsided game. It doesn’t feel good on either end of it, nor should it. As a sign of sportsmanship, we should be sensitive to running up scores in our league games or in-town (instructional/recreation) games and takes actions to avoid this. As a rule of thumb, let’s use MNJYSA of a six-goal difference. So if you sense that your team is going to overmatch the opponent, then attempt to take actions to not run up the scores. While scoring goals is the main objective to a match, this can be an opportunity to work on other tactical or technical developments. Some examples of actions to take to minimize running up the score are:
Remove your more talented/skillful players and replace them with other players to may not get as much playing time.
Switch positions of players so that you may have more fullbacks and less midfielders or forwards.
Remove one player or more from the field to try and make the game more challenging.
Don’t shoot on goals until every player on your team has touched the ball without an opponent touching the ball.
Encourage your players to only use their weaker leg.
Play keep-away.
Other
Playing instructional games we will be more concerned about these types of games. Playing traveling games, we may not be playing opponents who will have the same philosophy as we have. Still we must try our best to not have these lopsided matches. This could indicate that either one of the teams are not flighted correctly.

One caveat is that you may be playing a game that is heavily wind-aided. So for the first half one team dominates and then the second half the other team dominates. If you are the benefit of the wind in the first half of a traveling game then while we do not encourage running up the score, you may wish to have 6 goals before the half and strategize your defense for the second half.

Also, there may be tournaments that you are in that values goals scored or goal difference. In these cases, you may have to just obey your tournament rules.


http://www.piscatawaysoccer.org/coaching_aids_training/533582.html

[NorthernBison]

I didn't see this but the guy next to me told me about it. On the runback before half, one of the players trailing the play took off his helmet and was waving it in the air. Somebody must have said something because he apparently he put it back on real quick. I tried to see if it could be seen on the TV replay but it wasn't apparent.

Don't know if a ref saw it or even if there was anything to call but that would have been bad.

[CAS4127]

Give it time they'll get there. First they have to stop all those youth soccer coachs who let their teams go up by more than 6. Than they'll come for football.



http://www.piscatawaysoccer.org/coaching_aids_training/533582.html

OMFG, I feel like throwing up!!!!:facepalm::facepalm2::facepalm::facepalm2::f acepalm::facepalm2:

[Civil06]

OMFG, I feel like throwing up!!!!:facepalm::facepalm2::facepalm::facepalm2::f acepalm::facepalm2:

Agreed. I'd rather have the score run up on me than have the other team start scrimmaging each other during the game. Might as well have the talented kids do homework at midfield, or tie them up three-legged-race style.

[JSUBison]

I didn't see this but the guy next to me told me about it. On the runback before half, one of the players trailing the play took off his helmet and was waving it in the air. Somebody must have said something because he apparently he put it back on real quick. I tried to see if it could be seen on the TV replay but it wasn't apparent.

Don't know if a ref saw it or even if there was anything to call but that would have been bad.

I'm almost positive during the STFU or Lafayette game I saw someone cheering a td in or near the endzone with their helmet off. I'll see if I can find it.

Found it, Colton Heagle had his lid off after the blocked punt vs STFU. Now I don't know if Heagle is on punt coverage, or if he just came running off the bench with it off. I wonder if it was Heagle that the guy next to you saw. It would be interesting to find out. Hopefully this is addressed in practice and not by a yellow flag during a game.

[IzzyFlexion]

The dive was brilliant!!!!
If he doesn't do that and extend his left arm with the ball to the left and accross the plane of the goal-line........No touchdown.