Going too far?

[THEsocalledfan]

I missed this article yesterday, but pretty thought provoking:

http://www.inforum.com/event/article/id/328877/group/Sports/

I think it is good to end excessive celebration, but is this taking it a bit too far? I agree with Kolpack that Gatlin would have almost certainly been flagged under this new rule. He was by no means taunting other players, so I am a little conflicted if this just goes too far.

Discuss. (I did not see this posted elsewhere.....my apologies if it was.)

[MNLonghorn10]

That pics looks like hes taunting..but he just pointed to the crowd while running into the endzone. If that hurts a guys feelings youre in the wrong sport

[SDbison]

I missed this article yestday, but pretty thought provoking:

http://www.inforum.com/event/article/id/328877/group/Sports/

I think it is good to end excessive celebration, but is this taking it a bit too far? I agree with Kolpack that Gatlin would have almost certainly been flagged under this new rule. He was by no means taunting other players, so I am a little conflicted if this just goes too far.

Discuss. (I did not see this posted elsewhere.....my apologies if it was.)
Sounds like college football is being infiltrated by soccer referees. Next thing is they will want to issue yellow and red cards.

[56BISON73]

With 7 yards to go to the end zone his main priority is to get in the end zone. Weve seen other players screw the pooch when they start show boating. But now there will be other consequences as well. I dont have any problem with the rule.

[Bison Dan]

Total BS - It won't be long before the NCAA will make the winning team apologize to the other team after the game.

[Gully]

With 7 yards to go to the end zone his main priority is to get in the end zone. Weve seen other players screw the pooch when they start show boating. But now there will be other consequences as well. I dont have any problem with the rule.

PL, I agree with your sentiment...I'm from the "act like you've been there" school of thought. However, that's a problem for the coach to deal with not the official. Taunting such as pointing at an opposing player or standing over them woofing should be a penalty. Pointing to the sky or fans should not IMO.

[Notorious]

I hate the "look at me" type celebrations, but love the emotion shown in college football. I think the rule has gone too far. There is too much grey area, and I'd be willing to bet that there are a bunch of controversial calls this year.

[bisonmike2]

Next up, scores will no longer be kept, and everyone one both teams will be given participation medals.

[Bison"FANatic"]

I don't like the rule. The main problem I have is that it is very gray and left up to the ref at the time. Also these players work very hard all year long and emotions and adrenalin run high when their hard work is paying off. Let them have a little fun. It is a game and games have winners and losers and during most games peoples feeling may get hurt. Next time a pitcher strikes out a batter when their are two outs and the bases are loaded he better give a fist pump, he better stand at attention and march off the field like a good little boy. Or the next time someone shoots a 3 that just felt good they better not hold there arm up with their wrist bent the should just turn around and march to the other end of the court to play defense like a good little boy. Next dare I say it a hockey player scores a goal he better not plow into the boards he should just turn around and skate to the bench like a good little boy. I mean you have intercepted a ball have no one around you and have 18000 fans on their feet screaming and showing emotion, the player should be able to also.

SPORTS ARE ABOUT EMOTION LET THEM SHOW EMOTION.

[56BISON73]

PL, I agree with your sentiment...I'm from the "act like you've been there" school of thought. However, that's a problem for the coach to deal with not the official. Taunting such as pointing at an opposing player or standing over them woofing should be a penalty. Pointing to the sky or fans should not IMO.

I agree BUT point to the fans AFTER you score. IF you are going to point at all. You can celebrate on the sidelines. IMO

[SDbison]

Next up, scores will no longer be kept, and everyone one both teams will be given participation medals.
THIS^^^^^^
Actually I believe if a player is in another players face (actually taunting) after a TD / big play / etc. then a penalty is deserved. Deciding to cancel a TD is going WAY TOO FAR. The NCAA rules morons are just going to create a bunch of controversy. So is pointing to the sky before, during or after a TD OK? How about saluting? What if either is done in the general direction, but not directly at an opposing team? What if a shouted word of celebration is misinterpreted as a verbal taunt? Wow, this is entirely regressive for the game of college football. The NCAA is run by a family of Dumas's.

[SDbison]

I agree BUT point to the fans AFTER you score. IF you are going to point at all. You can celebrate on the sidelines. IMO
Who says this isn't a penalty under the new rules?......let alone some buffoon ref will certainly assess a wrong penalty during the SDSU game in their favor. Happens every year. Remember one of last years clean hits got a penalty again, also remember two years prior when the SDSU QB got smoked....two yards in bounds. Giving refs more room for stupidity that changes a games outcome is assinine. They can't even get it right with replay.......think Eastern Washington game.

[56BISON73]

I don't like the rule. The main problem I have is that it is very gray and left up to the ref at the time. Also these players work very hard all year long and emotions and adrenalin run high when their hard work is paying off. Let them have a little fun. It is a game and games have winners and losers and during most games peoples feeling may get hurt. Next time a pitcher strikes out a batter when their are two outs and the bases are loaded he better give a fist pump, he better stand at attention and march off the field like a good little boy. Or the next time someone shoots a 3 that just felt good they better not hold there arm up with their wrist bent the should just turn around and march to the other end of the court to play defense like a good little boy. Next dare I say it a hockey player scores a goal he better not plow into the boards he should just turn around and skate to the bench like a good little boy. I mean you have intercepted a ball have no one around you and have 18000 fans on their feet screaming and showing emotion, the player should be able to also.

SPORTS ARE ABOUT EMOTION LET THEM SHOW EMOTION.

Yes football is an emotional game. It is also a violent game. But it is controlled violence. Its also a thinking mans game. A players has to be under control at all times. If not this is where you get the personal fouls etc.
It is unfortunate that it has come to this. But rules are made because of the idiots who cross the line--- ex--look at me.
One must have the discipline to not put your team in jeopardy.

[56BISON73]

Who says this isn't a penalty under the new rules?......let alone some buffoon ref will certainly assess a wrong penalty during the SDSU game in their favor. Happens every year. Remember one of last years clean hits got a penalty again, also remember two years prior when the SDSU QB got smoked....two yards in bounds. Giving refs more room for stupidity that changes a games outcome is assinine. They can't even get it right with replay.......think Eastern Washington game.

If its a gray area then dont do it. Never put the out come of the game in the hands of the refs.
In the course of a game there will be blown calls. Its a fact because the refs are humans and prone to error. But for the most part they do a good job.

[NDSUstudent]

I'll agree with PL, save the celebrating until you are on the sideline or at the very least in the endzone.

Now if a player gets flagged for pointing to the fans after a TD while their in the endzone, while than I've got a major issue with it. Football is an emotional game and players should be allowed to display some but I don't want to see classless stuff like a player high stepping into the endzone like they are Deon Sanders.

I'll also agree with SD about refs screwing it up, especially the clueless MVFC refs.

[mnriverbison]

I hate the "look at me" type celebrations, but love the emotion shown in college football. I think the rule has gone too far. There is too much grey area, and I'd be willing to bet that there are a bunch of controversial calls this year.

Way too much gray area. I disagree with the folks who equate this rule to going soft. Taunting is lame and the sign of somebody who is surprised to be doing well, as opposed to having been there before. But when you hand the ref such power on an incident which is so subjective, there is almost no chance that there won't be issues. Especially in the emotionally charged arena of competitive sports.

[NDSUFREAK]

Dislike this rule A LOT! I'll go as far as saying as I'm completely fine with "the U" type celebrations from the 80s and 90s. It makes the game exciting and even more entertaining. If you don't want them to celebrate, don't let them score. Let them play and call penalties that actually threaten the safety of a player.

[CaBisonFan]

Best celebration? Hand the ball to the official. Business as usual.

Best message to opponent...."this is normal...we'll do it again."

[runtheoption]

But rules are made because of the idiots who cross the line--- ex--look at me.


PL, this made me smile. It reads like you are slamming yourself. :)

I hate these subjective rules. If players give each other a hard high five in close proximity to the ref or an opposing player, one ref might flag it while another would let it go as completely harmless.

[56BISON73]

PL, this made me smile. It reads like you are slamming yourself. :)

I hate these subjective rules. If players give each other a hard high five in close proximity to the ref or an opposing player, one ref might flag it while another would let it go as completely harmless.

Yes I saw that after I posted. So I figured--what the hell. Im sure somebody would have fun with it.

[ndsubison1]

let them celebrate. i like watching players dancing and being cocky as long as it doesnt go too far. if you dont like it dont play the sport. or get better and dont let them score

[56BISON73]

let them celebrate. i like watching players dancing and being cocky as long as it doesnt go too far. if you dont like it dont play the sport. or get better and dont let them score

This rule wasnt player driven.

[ndsubison1]

i know. its just my thoughts on it

[OrygunBison]

Best celebration? Hand the ball to the official. Business as usual.

Best message to opponent...."this is normal...we'll do it again."

I agree completely with this sentiment. In general, I think that the officials in both college and the pros have taken the right approach on this over the last few years. Remember 15-20 years ago. It was really getting bad. Does it persist today? Certainly. That said, it is an emotional game and I think the previous rule did a pretty darn good job of penalizing the "look at me" moments of the game while still allowing a team to show its emotion.

[TbonZach]

....I mean you have intercepted a ball have no one around you and have 18000 fans on their feet screaming and showing emotion, the player should be able to also.

I don't think that will be a problem in the FFD. To many people yelling at others to sit down and shut up. :facepalm: :smh:

[CHADSTAUS]

Dont like it at all. Some team is gonna lose a game over this. Let em play. Whats next, stop keeping score so everybody can win? Oh wait, they already do that in kids sports.

[CaBisonFan]

Dont like it at all. Some team is gonna lose a game over this. Let em play. Whats next, stop keeping score so everybody can win? Oh wait, they already do that in kids sports.

I agree with you...let 'em play...but let the Bison have more class.

[Bisonwinagn]

Dislike this rule A LOT! I'll go as far as saying as I'm completely fine with "the U" type celebrations from the 80s and 90s. It makes the game exciting and even more entertaining. If you don't want them to celebrate, don't let them score. Let them play and call penalties that actually threaten the safety of a player.

I still hate Miami to this day because of the pompus, arrogant, classless, egotistical, self infatuated players in the 80s and 90's. The only good thing about showing off is it creates a bigger rivalry because you want that player to get their head smashed in on the next play. So on second thought the rule is bad...:)

[1998braves64]

The TD only gets called back if the penalty happens outside the endzone. Otherwise it will basically be the same as it was previously, on the point after or the kickoff. I don't mind this rule because it should only delay the celebration in theory. Why would any player change what they do after the TD is done from what they've done before, it's the same at that point.

I guess I have the old school mentality because playing in HS our coach was pretty strict as are the ND HS football rules on celebrations, essentially you're only allowed to celebrate as a team (the 9 or 11 players on the field) and the ball has to be handed to the ref as soon as possible.

I think Bohl probably has a pretty good handle on it as you don't see too many "taunting" activities going on or stupid celebrations, and on big plays you see a lot of coaches "reminding" players to stay off the field.

In Josh's case last year it could have slid as he wasn't directing it at a player but could have been penalized for it. Probably wouldn't hurt to do a little scouting on officials to see how they call a game (have to imagine that happens some anyway and just from previous experience I would think?).

[56BISON73]

The TD only gets called back if the penalty happens outside the endzone. Otherwise it will basically be the same as it was previously, on the point after or the kickoff. I don't mind this rule because it should only delay the celebration in theory. Why would any player change what they do after the TD is done from what they've done before, it's the same at that point.

I guess I have the old school mentality because playing in HS our coach was pretty strict as are the ND HS football rules on celebrations, essentially you're only allowed to celebrate as a team (the 9 or 11 players on the field) and the ball has to be handed to the ref as soon as possible.

I think Bohl probably has a pretty good handle on it as you don't see too many "taunting" activities going on or stupid celebrations, and on big plays you see a lot of coaches "reminding" players to stay off the field.

In Josh's case last year it could have slid as he wasn't directing it at a player but could have been penalized for it. Probably wouldn't hurt to do a little scouting on officials to see how they call a game (have to imagine that happens some anyway and just from previous experience I would think?).


Thanks for the clarification. I am even more in favor of it now.

[56BISON73]

Dont like it at all. Some team is gonna lose a game over this. Let em play. Whats next, stop keeping score so everybody can win? Oh wait, they already do that in kids sports.

Follow the rules and it wont happen. if a kid cant keep himself under control and is so selfish that he would put the team at risk of losing a game so he can hot dog, that player doesnt need to be on the roster

[ndsubison1]

Follow the rules and it wont happen. if a kid cant keep himself under control and is so selfish that he would put the team at risk of losing a game so he can hot dog, that player doesnt need to be on the roster

i just think it's ridiculous to call back a td if somebody points his finger up in the air or is pointing to the crowd as he's running in for a td. would've tyler roehl been flagged for the salute he did to his brother in the army after every score? just seems ridiculous

[bisonhp330]

AAAA-MEN

the old - 'act like you have been there before'. I dont like the fact the discretion in in the refs hands- we have all witnessed how that is screwed up- on the other hand- it doesn't belong-great block, big hit, great tackle, long run, creat catch- thats what i want see. not some idiot dancing around or acting out some stupid skit. Leave that shit for the high school girls volleyball teams.




Best celebration? Hand the ball to the official. Business as usual.

Best message to opponent...."this is normal...we'll do it again."

[56BISON73]

i just think it's ridiculous to call back a td if somebody points his finger up in the air or is pointing to the crowd as he's running in for a td. would've tyler roehl been flagged for the salute he did to his brother in the army after every score? just seems ridiculous

I find it ridiculous that a player doesnt have enough self discipline that he cant keep his emotions in control WHILE he is trying to score.

[DjKyRo]

Celebrating is for after the game. That said, I'll admit I loved it when Taylor Braun blew a kiss to the SDSU bench. Still, them's the rules and I hope our players are mature enough to not screw the team over by breaking them.

May Tyler Roehl's high-stepping into the endzone on every touchdown go down in history.

[Scooter1]

There is a whole can of worms that the NCAA may not have anticipated.

Devil's advocate time....

1. A referee or group of referees who look to call this every chance they get?

2. A referee that has a bias toward a certain team? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3Z-kAmbZCc&NR=1&feature=fvwp

3. What if we see a definite trend favoring the home team?

4. What if we see a definite trend favoring the elite schools?

5. What if we see special interest groups start arguing racism that the rule is unfair due to culural diffferences and cultural norms for celebrations? (hey, if math tests can be culturally biased....who knows what these whack jobs can claim)

[1998braves64]

i just think it's ridiculous to call back a td if somebody points his finger up in the air or is pointing to the crowd as he's running in for a td. would've tyler roehl been flagged for the salute he did to his brother in the army after every score? just seems ridiculous

Wasn't there a possibility of this being an issue later in the season after the Minnesota game I remember reading about it here I think? I think he had to tone it down a lot more than he did earlier in the season because the refs were cracking down on taunting calls.

[ndsubison1]

I find it ridiculous that a player doesnt have enough self discipline that he cant keep his emotions in control WHILE he is trying to score.

no emotions in sports. good idea :rolleyes:

[1998braves64]

Key word "while". He didn't say and hasn't said that they have to be in check the whole game, just while you could be flagged for a TD losing penalty. I like to see the emotion disciplined such as that I've seen out of the Bison for the last 5-6 years under Bohl I think is a good standard not too little not too much. To me under the new rules the Josh Gatlin probably should be a no call as it wasn't directed at the other team, now if it was an away game different story.

This would be a good example to use to show the team this year in their orientation of the rules, this could go either way, if you want to possibly cost your team the TD and your ear after coaches get done chewing on it, go ahead feel free, otherwise keep it in check until you cross the goal line. Simple as that afterwards you can celebrate and not cost the team any different than years past.

[CHADSTAUS]

Follow the rules and it wont happen. if a kid cant keep himself under control and is so selfish that he would put the team at risk of losing a game so he can hot dog, that player doesnt need to be on the roster

Still dont like it AT ALL. I think there should be a new tradition in the dome this year. We should raise our hands, clap, yell and pump our fists on big plays that we DON'T score on. Oh wait, WE DO!!!!!!!!!

[56BISON73]

no emotions in sports. good idea :rolleyes:

Geez. Really?

[IndyBison]

The TD only gets called back if the penalty happens outside the endzone. Otherwise it will basically be the same as it was previously, on the point after or the kickoff. I don't mind this rule because it should only delay the celebration in theory. Why would any player change what they do after the TD is done from what they've done before, it's the same at that point.

I guess I have the old school mentality because playing in HS our coach was pretty strict as are the ND HS football rules on celebrations, essentially you're only allowed to celebrate as a team (the 9 or 11 players on the field) and the ball has to be handed to the ref as soon as possible.

I think Bohl probably has a pretty good handle on it as you don't see too many "taunting" activities going on or stupid celebrations, and on big plays you see a lot of coaches "reminding" players to stay off the field.

In Josh's case last year it could have slid as he wasn't directing it at a player but could have been penalized for it. Probably wouldn't hurt to do a little scouting on officials to see how they call a game (have to imagine that happens some anyway and just from previous experience I would think?).

You are correct. There were no changes to what is/is not an unsportsmanlike (UNS) foul. The change was the enforcement spot. Live ball fouls are generally enforced from the end of the related run, the spot of the foul, or the previous spot. This was an exception to enforce a live ball foul as if it was a dead ball foul. The rules committee (made up of coaches not officials) changed the penalty enforcement to treat a live ball UNS as a live ball foul.

This didn't happen that often in the past and I doubt you'll see it much at all this Fall because coaches will strongly enforce it in practice. I worked a scrimmage last Spring and a player did something like this in the scrimmage and the covering official didn't flag it. The coach asked us what he did and we explained it and he asked us to treat it as a live ball UNS because he wanted his guys to take it seriously.

This rule was passed 2 years ago with implementation this year so the coaches have been aware of it for awhile.

[southcliffbison]

Over time, every sport has rule changes; players and coaches (and fans) need to accept them, deal with them, and move on. People didn't like the alternating posession rule in basketball......people didn't like the malicious contact rule in baseball (I'm talking high school, legion, and college here) where a player dips a shoulder and tries to dislodge the baseball from the fielder. It was a good rule change that prevented a lot of injuries particularly to catchers IMO. So, now football has a rule penalizing certain behavior.....let's see how it pans out, then decide.

[ndsubison1]

just because there's a rule doesnt mean it's any good.

[Scooter1]

This is a rule that teams can control. I do know that the first Bison player to have a TD called back is going to get crucified on this board. especially if we have to settle for a FG and lose by 3 points.

I have never understood the mind set of all the celebration after a tackle or a TD. I never understood the mind set of guys celebrating a big hit after a 6 or 7 yard gain. For God sake, if it is 2nd and 3, stop celebrating..you didn't do so hot on that play in the first place.

I keep thinking about the defensive back that NDSU lost to injury in the 90's. He scored a TD after an INT in one of the first games of the season and then was lost for that season due to a stupid injury that occured while his team mates were mobbing and jumping all over him. Can't remember his name, but I think he was a Valley City kid.

[AjaxTheMighty]

Football is entertaining, in and of itself. The taunting and over-celebration doesn't make the game better in any way. For me personally, I don't need anything more than the game to be entertained. I just don't get that group of people who need more entertainment at a football game than the actual chess match between the two teams.

[ndbj52]

If you work hard in practice all week and then drive 80 yards down the field and score I think you deserve a little bit of celebration with your teammates. I am not so big on the individual celebrations though, its a team sport.

[AjaxTheMighty]

I actually love the team celebrations. They group up and pat each other on the helmet. That isn't what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the self-promoting "over-celebration". It isn't needed to make football more entertaining. The game itself IS what we come to see.

[56BISON73]

Originally Posted by Scooter1 View Post
This is a rule that teams can control. I do know that the first Bison player to have a TD called back is going to get crucified on this board. especially if we have to settle for a FG and lose by 3 points.

He should also catch a ration from his teammates and coaches as well.

I have never understood the mind set of all the celebration after a tackle or a TD. I never understood the mind set of guys celebrating a big hit after a 6 or 7 yard gain. For God sake, if it is 2nd and 3, stop celebrating..you didn't do so hot on that play in the first place.

I have never understood that as well. They are doing there job for christ sakes. They act like they never scored or tackled some one in there life.

I keep thinking about the defensive back that NDSU lost to injury in the 90's. He scored a TD after an INT in one of the first games of the season and then was lost for that season due to a stupid injury that occured while his team mates were mobbing and jumping all over him. Can't remember his name, but I think he was a Valley City kid.

Stupid way to lose a season.

[A1pigskin]

I think this is going a little overboard. Could the next rule be no talking in the end zone, lol.