Apr

[JSUBison]

APR is something I really don't know a lot about, but with Sigers and Mohler gone it got me wondering. Is this going to cause the APR grade for NDSU to go down? How much? Will Justin Howard leaving the team also negatively affect the APR? I'm under the impression that transfers don't hurt, so Mohler leaving won't hurt, correct?

NDSU scored 940 last year, 925 is the number you don't want to go below.

Rolling score for NDSU is 957, I think that's a 4 year average?

https://web1.ncaa.org/app_data/apr2010/493_2010_apr.pdf

[tony]

APR is something I really don't know a lot about, but with Sigers and Mohler gone it got me wondering. Is this going to cause the APR grade for NDSU to go down? How much? Will Justin Howard leaving the team also negatively affect the APR? I'm under the impression that transfers don't hurt, so Mohler leaving won't hurt, correct?

NDSU scored 940 last year, 925 is the number you don't want to go below.

Rolling score for NDSU is 957, I think that's a 4 year average?

https://web1.ncaa.org/app_data/apr2010/493_2010_apr.pdf

Sigers will hurt no matter what because if he transfers he presumably won't be transferring with good academic standing. Justin Howard? That depends on whether he stays in school, transfers, or drops out.

[Hammersmith]

APR is something I really don't know a lot about, but with Sigers and Mohler gone it got me wondering. Is this going to cause the APR grade for NDSU to go down? How much? Will Justin Howard leaving the team also negatively affect the APR? I'm under the impression that transfers don't hurt, so Mohler leaving won't hurt, correct?

NDSU scored 940 last year, 925 is the number you don't want to go below.

Rolling score for NDSU is 957, I think that's a 4 year average?

https://web1.ncaa.org/app_data/apr2010/493_2010_apr.pdf

Mohler will hurt, but not that much. Sigers will hurt more. Howard will also probably hurt depending on whether he returns as a student and what his grades were like at the end of the semester.

Each player can earn four points per year; two per semester. They get one point for being academically eligible to play and one point for returning. Mohler earned three points out of four. Sigers probably only earned one out of four assuming he's not enrolled at NDSU this fall. Howard could've earned anywhere from two to four points out of four depending on how things went/will go.

So now the question is how much will these lost points hurt. Really, not all that much. From reading the short section in the DI manual, it doesn't look like APR differentiates between scholarship and non-scholarship student-athletes. So let's say that the football roster size is a conservative 90, counting redshirts and walkons(GoBison says 75 plus Mohler and Howard, but I don't think it can be that small). There were 18 seniors according to GoBison. Those seniors would be worth three points instead of four in most cases.

So:
(72*4) + (18*3) = 342 possible points(290 if GoBison is correct)
Worst case: Mohler = -1, Howard = -2, Sigers = -3; Total = -6
342 - 6 = 336; 336/342 = .982; APR score of 982 (77 man roster = 979)

As you can see, a handful of problem players doesn't have a large impact on an APR score when looking at a roster as big as football. I'm not going to say these numbers a super accurate, but they should be in the ballpark. Since NDSU normally scores in the 940-965 range for football, it's clear that more players are academically ineligible or leave the school than we hear about. For reference, assuming 320 points possible(splitting the difference), a football team would have to lose 24 points to drop below the 925 penalty line.

[Twentysix]

Mohler will hurt, but not that much. Sigers will hurt more. Howard will also probably hurt depending on whether he returns as a student and what his grades were like at the end of the semester.

Each player can earn four points per year; two per semester. They get one point for being academically eligible to play and one point for returning. Mohler earned three points out of four. Sigers probably only earned one out of four assuming he's not enrolled at NDSU this fall. Howard could've earned anywhere from two to four points out of four depending on how things went/will go.

So now the question is how much will these lost points hurt. Really, not all that much. From reading the short section in the DI manual, it doesn't look like APR differentiates between scholarship and non-scholarship student-athletes. So let's say that the football roster size is a conservative 90, counting redshirts and walkons(GoBison says 75 plus Mohler and Howard, but I don't think it can be that small). There were 18 seniors according to GoBison. Those seniors would be worth three points instead of four in most cases.

So:
(72*4) + (18*3) = 342 possible points(290 if GoBison is correct)
Worst case: Mohler = -1, Howard = -2, Sigers = -3; Total = -6
342 - 6 = 336; 336/342 = .982; APR score of 982 (77 man roster = 979)

As you can see, a handful of problem players doesn't have a large impact on an APR score when looking at a roster as big as football. I'm not going to say these numbers a super accurate, but they should be in the ballpark. Since NDSU normally scores in the 940-965 range for football, it's clear that more players are academically ineligible or leave the school than we hear about. For reference, assuming 320 points possible(splitting the difference), a football team would have to lose 24 points to drop below the 925 penalty line.

But it wouldnt matter until the rolling average drops below 925 i thought.

[tony]

But it wouldnt matter until the rolling average drops below 925 i thought.

Well, to certain extent it matters because each point below 1000 represents a non-optimal outcome.

[Facts]

Oh... this thread has nothing to do with April.

[HerdBot]

APR is something I really don't know a lot about, but with Sigers and Mohler gone it got me wondering. Is this going to cause the APR grade for NDSU to go down? How much? Will Justin Howard leaving the team also negatively affect the APR? I'm under the impression that transfers don't hurt, so Mohler leaving won't hurt, correct?

NDSU scored 940 last year, 925 is the number you don't want to go below.

Rolling score for NDSU is 957, I think that's a 4 year average?

https://web1.ncaa.org/app_data/apr2010/493_2010_apr.pdf

I don't think it matters.

Moehler - 3rd string QB. Upgraded the backup spot. Starter Jensen will improve after less than a year starting.

Sigers - a loss but 2-5 touches per game will be replaced by Ojuri who is a major upgrade over Voightlander. Hudson is capable. Bigger loss on special teams. With Ojuri and McNorton improving its a wash.

Howard - never got the vibe he was a legitimate starter anyway except for 1 game. He's being replaced by 3 guys. Vraa, Gebheart, and Smith. Position should be upgraded.

Throw in an improved o line with more depth and were a better team.

[Hambone]

I don't think it matters.

Moehler - 3rd string QB. Upgraded the backup spot. Starter Jensen will improve after less than a year starting.

Sigers - a loss but 2-5 touches per game will be replaced by Ojuri who is a major upgrade over Voightlander. Hudson is capable. Bigger loss on special teams. With Ojuri and McNorton improving its a wash.

Howard - never got the vibe he was a legitimate starter anyway except for 1 game. He's being replaced by 3 guys. Vraa, Gebheart, and Smith. Position should be upgraded.

Throw in an improved o line with more depth and were a better team.

I don't believe APR has anything to do with on the field - it is all based on academics and such...

[bisonmike2]

So how many points does one need to get in order to get a free lease vehicle from a local car dealership?

[HerdBot]

I don't believe APR has anything to do with on the field - it is all based on academics and such...

Duh I.was thinking of something different like RPI.. So many of these rankings. Whenever you lose a guy like Sigers and his obvious academic struggle it can't hurt to lose him. Im not advanced to figure it out. Don't really understand it. We've lost more players in the past (like 90% of the 08 class) This has been a good offseason on that front. 3 players on a team is good since we had a good apr to begin with

[JSUBison]

Mohler will hurt, but not that much. Sigers will hurt more. Howard will also probably hurt depending on whether he returns as a student and what his grades were like at the end of the semester.

Each player can earn four points per year; two per semester. They get one point for being academically eligible to play and one point for returning. Mohler earned three points out of four. Sigers probably only earned one out of four assuming he's not enrolled at NDSU this fall. Howard could've earned anywhere from two to four points out of four depending on how things went/will go.

So now the question is how much will these lost points hurt. Really, not all that much. From reading the short section in the DI manual, it doesn't look like APR differentiates between scholarship and non-scholarship student-athletes. So let's say that the football roster size is a conservative 90, counting redshirts and walkons(GoBison says 75 plus Mohler and Howard, but I don't think it can be that small). There were 18 seniors according to GoBison. Those seniors would be worth three points instead of four in most cases.

So:
(72*4) + (18*3) = 342 possible points(290 if GoBison is correct)
Worst case: Mohler = -1, Howard = -2, Sigers = -3; Total = -6
342 - 6 = 336; 336/342 = .982; APR score of 982 (77 man roster = 979)

As you can see, a handful of problem players doesn't have a large impact on an APR score when looking at a roster as big as football. I'm not going to say these numbers a super accurate, but they should be in the ballpark. Since NDSU normally scores in the 940-965 range for football, it's clear that more players are academically ineligible or leave the school than we hear about. For reference, assuming 320 points possible(splitting the difference), a football team would have to lose 24 points to drop below the 925 penalty line.

Thanks, that makes sense. But it is concerning that we had a big drop from the previous report. 940 is kind of embarrasing score, IMHO. Hope it was just a one time drop.

[ndsoccerfan]

Non scholarship players do NOT count toward APR

[Hammersmith]

Non scholarship players do NOT count toward APR

I'll take your word for it. It's what I thought, but the DI manual does not specify it. It doesn't change the figures very much unless the number of scholarship players at NDSU is far closer to the effective minimum* of 63 than the max at 85.


*63 scholarships split between a max of 85 players. NDSU gives out between 61 and 63 scholarship equivalents, so that's effectively the minimum number of scholarship players.



23.02.1 Academic Progress rate. The Committee on Academic Performance shall have the authority to determine the minimum acceptable academic progress rate (APR), which shall include a calculation that accounts for currently enrolled student-athletes. The rate shall account for the institution’s success in retaining and graduating all such student-athletes. Further, the rate shall account for the academic eligibility of the student-athletes, including all applicable NCAA, conference and institutional academic eligibility requirements. The committee shall publish an explanation of the APR calculation to the membership annually


edit: Never mind. The APR page I found yesterday on the NCAA website didn't specify, but I changed my search terms a bit and it took me to a different page which confirms what you wrote.

double edit: Looks like I might be double wrong. I could've sworn APR was calculated by semester, but the page I'm looking at infers it's yearly. That means only two points per year per student. Make that triple wrong. The original APR calculation penalized for transfers, but it looks like they changed it while I wasn't looking as long as the student's grades are good(damn them for not checking with me first). So JSU was correct in Mohler not hurting. Sigers will probably be an 0 for 2 unless he stays at NDSU to improve his grades. And Howard is still a question mark.

So, somewhere between 126 and 170 points available. That means 10 to 13 points must be lost before the single-year score drops below 925. And it would have to stay that low for a few years before the rolling four-year number would drop below 925.

Hopefully now I'm correct. This has not been a good thread for me.

[tony]

Non scholarship players do NOT count toward APR

You wonder how, say, Ivy League football can even have a football APR then. Maybe they don't?

[Twentysix]

They do. How is definatly a good question.