I'm just laying this out

[TheBisonator]

"Oh NO! ANOTHER FBS THREAD NOOOOOOOlolololollololollolozzzz0000rz!!!!!1111222 3", you say.

Well, I'm just throwing this out here as to why it's foolish to think NDSU can NEVER go FBS.

The following link http://easterneagles.wordpress.com/2010/12/19/actual-football-attendance-for-2010/ shows the ACTUAL "AIS" (asses in seats) attendances for Eastern Michigan home football games in 2010.

ACTUAL attendances:

Army - 8,757
Central Michigan - 8,043
Ohio - 6,799
Toledo - 7,001
Northern Illinois - 1,404 (YES, That's ONE THOUSAND FOUR HUNDRED FUCKING FOUR - NDSU basketball vs. Mayville State drew more than that)

Average: 6,401 (actual butts in seats)

This is almost as bad as UND does. (Assuming here that UND gets maybe 6,000 actual asses in seats on average for its games)

Now, that is not to say that we want to have a program that's anything like Eastern Michigan's. Far from it. I would NEVER want to have a program like EMU's is now. We would pound the hell out of EMU if we played right now. My point is that There's a lot more of Eastern Michigan-like schools at the bottom of the FBS that we already hold advantages over in terms of current and potential fan base, facilties, football operations, budget, etc. than you think.

I make these posts not because I am dying for us to move up NOW. I do it because I am anticipating that the Fargo-Moorhead metro will in the near future reach 300,000 people (the minimum market size believed necessary to support a competative FBS program). Boise State literally moved up to FBS almost right after the Boise metro reached 300,000. F-M in 2011 is incredibly similar to Boise in 1991. Look at a metro map of Boise in 1991 and F-M now, there are so much similarities in the rate of development. I think that an FBS move will happen sometime at the latest in the early part of next decade. With schools like App State, Montana, even Sam Houston State flirting with FBS, NDSU doesn't want to be left behind.

OK, standard FBS rant over. But back to EMU. Even with a winning program, they would still struggle to get the amount of fans we have now coming to our games. They are under the dark shadow of Big Blue, and they will never be able to escape it. EMU spent just a tad over 5 million dollars on football in 09-10, while NDSU spent about 3.4 million. The difference in those two budgets are LITERALLY the difference in 1) The payouts from games with two big BCS schools that they would give to a MAC team vs. an FCS team, and 2) The increased payout in TV revenue to MAC schools. Everything else being equal (not counting the following two factors), their budget is the same as ours.

Again, we do not want to be like EMU. But think about it: If I could find them, I could show you at least 20 attendance lists for bottom FBS schools that are similar to EMU's. To think NDSU would dwell in the FBS cellar if such a move took place is ludicrous. We'd AUTOMATICALLY be outside of the bottom 30 in fan support. And talent wise, we'd be capable of being anywhere from #60-80 out of 120+ teams in almost every year.

Yeah, yeah, another FBS thread. But seriously, look at those EMU stats, and then tell yourself again that we have no business even discussing FBS.

Oh, and one more thing:

Armed Forces Bowl > FCS National Championship. That's not my opinion, that's the opinion of the football watching public.

[bisonbills]

I would totally support it if it was a conference move.

[silkamilkamonico]

Armed Forces Bowl > FCS National Championship. That's not my opinion, that's the opinion of the football watching public.

Count me out of the football watching public then. I won't be watching, or supporting, that irrelevant game even if NDSU was in it.

[TheBisonator]

Count me out of the football watching public then. I won't be watching, or supporting, that irrelevant game even if NDSU was in it.

Don't worry. There will be plenty of people to take your place.

[rockybison]

Mr Davidson, you got me, still too pumped to sleep. SU can't go up by themselves, conference ok, alone, nope. Finals go ok?

[TheBisonator]

Mr Davidson, you got me, still too pumped to sleep. SU can't go up by themselves, conference ok, alone, nope. Finals go ok?

I probably failed a class, but otherwise OK.

And yes, the most plausible scenario is the MVFC moving up as a whole. (Unless the WAC becomes more attractive in the future)

[DjKyRo]

I haven't seen a single person say that NDSU can NEVER go FBS.

[silkamilkamonico]

I haven't seen a single person say that NDSU can NEVER go FBS.

I don't think anyone has ever questioned that, and even the ones that don't want the move up aren't stupid enough to deny that NDSU has the facilities, support, and community to make a very successful move up.

I'm not sure why people try and continue rehashing this argument from this specific perspective.

[DjKyRo]

I don't think anyone has ever questioned that, and even the ones that don't want the move up aren't stupid enough to deny that NDSU has the facilities, support, and community to make a very successful move up.

I'm not sure why people try and continue rehashing this argument from this specific perspective.

Agreed. It seems to me that any opposition to a potential FBS move within the next five years is interpreted as opposition to any type of move at all or as doubting of NDSU's potential, which I think is considerable. Needless to say, those two assumptions are entirely incorrect (speaking for myself, that is).

I'll re-hash my stance: NDSU absolutely should move up, but once the finances, fan support, and conference are lined up. WKU showed that even the best-laid plans can go awry, and I would rather we be a power FCS team than an irrelevant FBS team any day of the week; but again, if the stars align and FBS relevance is within reach, we should take it. Let's get comfortable in FCS first.

[TheBisonator]

I don't think anyone has ever questioned that, and even the ones that don't want the move up aren't stupid enough to deny that NDSU has the facilities, support, and community to make a very successful move up.

I'm not sure why people try and continue rehashing this argument from this specific perspective.

"QUIT THE FBS TALK!!! I DON'T WANNA SEE ANYMORE FBS THREADS!!!" eminating from many Bisonville members gives me the impression that some people think it will never happen.

If I misread a whole bunch of people, I apologize.

[TheBisonator]

I'd like to see CaBison come in this thread to set people straight. An SDbison rant wouldn't hurt either. :D

[DjKyRo]

I'd like to see CaBison come in this thread to set people straight.

On ?

[silkamilkamonico]

"QUIT THE FBS TALK!!! I DON'T WANNA SEE ANYMORE FBS THREADS!!!" eminating from many Bisonville members gives me the impression that some people think it will never happen.

If I misread a whole bunch of people, I apologize.

Try bringing a fresh perspective in the FBS vs FCS argument, not some rehashed concept of attendance figures that's been brought to the forefront a few hundred times.

Everybody knows NDSU not only already has attendance figures to succeed in D1, but also understand it would probably improve even more with the move as long as the program doesn't somehow falter with a sustained lack of success.

[NDSUFan_Sav]

"QUIT THE FBS TALK!!! I DON'T WANNA SEE ANYMORE FBS THREADS!!!" eminating from many Bisonville members gives me the impression that some people think it will never happen.

If I misread a whole bunch of people, I apologize.

doesn't mean it won't happen, we're tired of hearing it though

[rockybison]

Silk, there would be no let down. I don't want to go all lakes but lakes is correct. We, NDSU, would kick ass

[silkamilkamonico]

I think NDSU would be fine too. However those back to back subpar seasons we had a couple years ago shook me up a bit. There's just so much support and backing from the community that NDSU will always rebound I think(hope) after an underachieving season or 2.

[SDbison]

I'd like to see CaBison come in this thread to set people straight. An SDbison rant wouldn't hurt either. :D
OK.......I am here. Yes, the FM area could very well support NDSU as an FBS team. And yes, the Bison would be very competitive at that level since football is a big deal at NDSU. I back Bisonator 100% on this one.
Three things have to happen to eventually make an FBS move possible:
1. NDSU has to envision it and start making plans for what needs to be done.

2. The Bison have to be successful, winning the conference often, getting to playoffs 2 out of 3 years, and making it to the championship game at least twice in the next 5 to 7 years. Win it all at least once.
3. Some sort of unique conference opportunity has to arise. maybe all the reorganization in FBS will make for something good. The WAC and MAC are no good. Maybe some form of the best MVFC teams move up together.
I just hope something happens in about 5 to 7 years. I want to see NDSU do this before I am a really old man. Time for a Dakota team to be represented at the highest level and none any better than the Bison.

[SDbison]

doesn't mean it won't happen, we're tired of hearing it though
I am tired of hearing some people try to shut people down on this site. I am tired of the same people constantly hijacking threads and making jokes out of them. I am tired of the UND mascot haters. I am tired of being tired.

[CaBisonFan]

We'd be in the 25 to 30 thousand range most weekends...providing we had the room. There would be years when we'd be in the top 30-50. There would come a time when we'd do a Boise State and jump into the 'elite.' It's the nature of the program. DI hockey in GF. FBS football in Fargo. Two great programs for all North Dakotans to support.

Good post.

[OrygunBison]

I am tired of hearing some people try to shut people down on this site. I am tired of the same people constantly hijacking threads and making jokes out of them. I am tired of the UND mascot haters. I am tired of being tired.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQmNivXjoo8&feature=related

[CaBisonFan]

I am tired of hearing some people try to shut people down on this site. I am tired of the same people constantly hijacking threads and making jokes out of them. I am tired of the UND mascot haters. I am tired of being tired.

Me 2.

The discussion is not irrelevant...it's necessary. The numbers provided are very relevant.

As I've written dozens of times in the past...if you don't like the thread (topic)...don't read it. Is there something complicated about this? I mean really...we have more than our share of paint-drying threads.

Many of our regional universities are in DII, and now there are four FCS programs down the I-29. We're going to see others going this way. We've been 'behind' the curve for a long time...even though we've been capable of playing in a higher division.

Of course...good timing is essential. Our timing was so damn good in the 70s and 80s that DII became very crowded in the region & the program lost momentum.

Let's take our time, think about this for a couple of decades, watch some of the smaller regional schools join us in the FCS, and just see what happens. Maybe the Big Sky will move up while we're thinking about it...:cool:

[Bison03]

FBS=BCS=no playoffs=no chance at a title.
FCS=playoffs=Always a chance at a title.

[CaBisonFan]

FBS=BCS=no playoffs=no chance at a title.
FCS=playoffs=Always a chance at a title.

Having playoffs in the FBS isn't a matter of 'if'...it's a matter of 'when.' The money potential is too great.

[HerdBot]

Oh my god. And people give me crap for supporting NDSU hockey and wanted to develop a guy who runs a 4.27.

[MN_Moose]

From UNI perspective,
I don't think you'll see the MVFC move up as a whole. Maybe one or two but not all. I don't see ISUb & SDSU moving up and it's been studied at UNI with a resounding no. Can't afford to move to FCS. Two (actually 1 1/2) Div 1 FCS in the state of Iowa is enough. The people in Iowa won't put up with much of the shenanigans that go on like at tOSU and UofIowa. I think it's possible NDSU could move up but it will be expensive. Mo St no way. They're not relevant any more. So IL maybe but the facilities would need (more) major upgrades. ISUr no way. Too close to Champaign / Urbana and NoIL. Youngstown St ?? maybe, but that is a very depressed economic area.

Good luck

[Bison Dan]

Let's win a couple of FCS NC before we get too serious. Only conference that would make sense to me would be the BIG 12.

[stevdock]

Find the money for the BSA and other NDSU sports projects and then start to find the money for increased scholarships, coaches salaries, stadium improvements/new arena, etc and then this will be more feasible. The current projects HAVE to be done first before this ever happens.

[WYOBISONMAN]

doesn't mean it won't happen, we're tired of hearing it though

Amen Sav......

[JMB]

In the spirit of discussion I will pose the following question. What does moving to a non-BSC conference get us? Is the exposure of a MAC or Sun Belt team really any better? I think most College football fans see members of the non-BCS conferences as second class citizens, and aren't really looked at any differently than an FCS teams. Does anybody care about week in and week out conference games in the Sun Belt or MAC or WAC? I would argue that our recent victories against Kansas and Minnesota would have garnered less attention nationally if we were in the MAC because the David vs. Goliath story wouldn't have existed.

Just looking for other people's thoughts.

[bisonmike2]

I think we'll make the jump to FBS eventually but it's going to take millions of more dollars to make it happen the right way. With the trouble we're having raising the money for the BSA renovation, I can't see us making the jump anytime soon.

[roadwarrior]

I would just love being in the MAC and having our home football games on tuesday or wednesday nights. :banghead:

[Notorious]

In the spirit of discussion I will pose the following question. What does moving to a non-BSC conference get us? Is the exposure of a MAC or Sun Belt team really any better? I think most College football fans see members of the non-BCS conferences as second class citizens, and aren't really looked at any differently than an FCS teams. Does anybody care about week in and week out conference games in the Sun Belt or MAC or WAC? I would argue that our recent victories against Kansas and Minnesota would have garnered less attention nationally if we were in the MAC because the David vs. Goliath story wouldn't have existed.

Just looking for other people's thoughts.

Great point. It would be highly unlikely to be the next Boise St., if that's what we are aspiring to be. Not that we are garnering national exposure in the FCS, but I have a hard time believing it would be any better being in a crap FBS conference...it would only cost more money. Currently, the FCS offers some excitement. Look at what last year's playoff run has done for the program. Other than some sort of "prestige" thing, I just don't see the benefit. Of course, if the entire landscape of college football changes, things may be different (i.e. major realignment, etc.).

WWLS?*


*What Would Lakes Say

[onbison09]

In the spirit of discussion I will pose the following question. What does moving to a non-BSC conference get us? Is the exposure of a MAC or Sun Belt team really any better? I think most College football fans see members of the non-BCS conferences as second class citizens, and aren't really looked at any differently than an FCS teams. Does anybody care about week in and week out conference games in the Sun Belt or MAC or WAC? I would argue that our recent victories against Kansas and Minnesota would have garnered less attention nationally if we were in the MAC because the David vs. Goliath story wouldn't have existed.

Just looking for other people's thoughts.

As someone who goes to school at a Sunbelt school I can give you a resounding NO

[OrygunBison]

In the spirit of discussion I will pose the following question. What does moving to a non-BSC conference get us? Is the exposure of a MAC or Sun Belt team really any better? I think most College football fans see members of the non-BCS conferences as second class citizens, and aren't really looked at any differently than an FCS teams. Does anybody care about week in and week out conference games in the Sun Belt or MAC or WAC? I would argue that our recent victories against Kansas and Minnesota would have garnered less attention nationally if we were in the MAC because the David vs. Goliath story wouldn't have existed.

Just looking for other people's thoughts.

I don't really know much about the Sun Belt. I used to live smack dab in the middle of the MAC. That conference is hamstrung because it is perfectly overlaid with the Big 10, hence absolutely nobody cared. It was pretty sad. I remember being shocked to find out that it was actually a DIA conference.

The WAC is (or at least was) different. The schools tend to be the bigger schools in their region. In the heart of the PAC 10, people still care what happens in the WAC...although that seems to be diminishing somewhat.

[AjaxTheMighty]

If wishes and buts were interceptions and guts we'd all have a National Championship!

[HerdBot]

I would rather spend the money on D1 hockey. The MAC sucks and winning the Trojan Magnum Bowl wouldn't excite me as much as a run at the National Championship
We could never compete for a Championship at the FBS level even if we win every game 72-0. The MAC gets no respect.

[TheBisonator]

I would rather spend the money on D1 hockey. The MAC sucks and winning the Trojan Magnum Bowl wouldn't excite me as much as a run at the National Championship
We could never compete for a Championship at the FBS level even if we win every game 72-0. The MAC gets no respect.

I'm not saying we should be in the MAC. The WAC is a constantly fluid conference, and it won't look this crappy in 10 years or so. When the WAC improves itself, and if an offer comes from there, I think that would be a great opportunity.

NDSU is WAAAAAY outside of the MAC's footprint.

[BisoninNWMN]

I would rather spend the money on D1 hockey. The MAC sucks and winning the Trojan Magnum Bowl wouldn't excite me as much as a run at the National Championship
We could never compete for a Championship at the FBS level even if we win every game 72-0. The MAC gets no respect.

I agree with this.

I think hockey would be very successful here at NDSU.

[344Johnson]

I would rather spend the money on D1 hockey. The MAC sucks and winning the Trojan Magnum Bowl wouldn't excite me as much as a run at the National Championship
We could never compete for a Championship at the FBS level even if we win every game 72-0. The MAC gets no respect.

Roethlisberger led Miami(OH) to a number 10 ranking. Ball State had a highly ranked team a couple years ago...if you win, and win by big margins, you can get respect, a championship? Probably not unless you beat 'Bama, Texas, and Ohio St. out of conference.

[TheBisonator]

I agree with this.

I think hockey would be very successful here at NDSU.

If not ONE RED PENNY of money that would otherwise go to football or basketball were spent on hockey, I'd be for it.

But that's not the reality of the situation.

Back to FBS talk. There's already the annual NDSU hockey thread over in another section.

[CaBisonFan]

I...for one...am not suggesting a move to a bad FBS conference that is overshadowed by one of the big ones. That would be stupid.

[SDbison]

I...for one...am not suggesting a move to a bad FBS conference that is overshadowed by one of the big ones. That would be stupid.
The naysayers ignore the way this was laid out. The naysayers come out of the woodwork. Most of them would have said stay in DII so they have no credibility. Nobody except for the team winning and maybe the loser and their fans give a rip about FCS playoffs. Quit fooling yourselves DII Pats. At a minimum 10 times the exposure for any FBS bowl game. Naysayers have no aspirations and believe in taking no risks. Just stay smalltime.

[BisonNeil]

Find the money for the BSA and other NDSU sports projects and then start to find the money for increased scholarships, coaches salaries, stadium improvements/new arena, etc and then this will be more feasible. The current projects HAVE to be done first before this ever happens.

To quote Sambini:

"+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++"

[BisonNeil]

I agree with this.

I think "DI" hockey would be very successful here at NDSU.

I think you are right, but largely because "DI" hockey is really a misnomer. A while back I looked at the "DI" hockey school membership and 42% were DII or DIII in all other athletics, so "DI" hockey should be doable at a real DI school. After all, a DII school just won the national championship in "DI" hockey.

[BisonNeil]

The naysayers ignore the way this was laid out. The naysayers come out of the woodwork. Most of them would have said stay in DII so they have no credibility. Nobody except for the team winning and maybe the loser and their fans give a rip about FCS playoffs. Quit fooling yourselves DII Pats. At a minimum 10 times the exposure for any FBS bowl game. Naysayers have no aspirations and believe in taking no risks. Just stay smalltime.

You may be right, but it is all about money.

The additional scholarhips for football would be another $600-660k plus that much more for Title IX support for women's athletics. Assuming NDSU went to a lower range bowl game, in which the average losses per school range in the $250-350k, NDSU would need another $1.5 million or so annually. So, pony up and let's do it.

[JMB]

The naysayers ignore the way this was laid out. The naysayers come out of the woodwork. Most of them would have said stay in DII so they have no credibility. Nobody except for the team winning and maybe the loser and their fans give a rip about FCS playoffs. Quit fooling yourselves DII Pats. At a minimum 10 times the exposure for any FBS bowl game. Naysayers have no aspirations and believe in taking no risks. Just stay smalltime.

I did a little looking on TV ratings, in 2010 the FCS Championship game had a rating of 1.3. (I couldn't find any numbers for the 2011 game). This was the highest rating for quite some time probably influenced by the fact Montana was in the game and they have a fairly strong following. However this game was also scheduled on a Friday night which probably hurt ratings a bit. On a side note Montana vs. App State the week before had a 1.7 share which was a record.

Last year a bowl game for two non-BCS teams had a ratings between 1.5-2.5. http://http://www.bcsfootball.org/news/story?id=4819384

So there appears to be some additional exposure in terms of butts watching the game. Plus only two teams make it to the national championship game in FCS where you can play just over .500 football and make it to a Bowl game.

[JMB]

I...for one...am not suggesting a move to a bad FBS conference that is overshadowed by one of the big ones. That would be stupid.

CA, what conferences would you consider acceptable? Just asking so I can understand your perspective.

[HerdBot]

I did a little looking on TV ratings, in 2010 the FCS Championship game had a rating of 1.3. (I couldn't find any numbers for the 2011 game). This was the highest rating for quite some time probably influenced by the fact Montana was in the game and they have a fairly strong following. However this game was also scheduled on a Friday night which probably hurt ratings a bit. On a side note Montana vs. App State the week before had a 1.7 share which was a record.

Last year a bowl game for two non-BCS teams had a ratings between 1.5-2.5. http://http://www.bcsfootball.org/news/story?id=4819384

So there appears to be some additional exposure in terms of butts watching the game. Plus only two teams make it to the national championship game in FCS where you can play just over .500 football and make it to a Bowl game.

True but your going to play less games. Let's say we kept our run going this year...

Robert Morrow - home game state wide tv
Montana State - National game Altitude and Espn 3
Eastern Washington - TV National (can't remember what channels )
Villanova - Espn 2

Then the National Championship game

All in all we would have gotten as much or more exposure. Not to mention home games. And we could have been National Champs to boot.

The way the FCS is set up we have a legit chance of making a playoff run every year. A Bowl game be hears inbetween games.

[DjKyRo]

A big point to keep in mind with the FCS playoffs is that home games in the quarter- and semi-finals are broadcast on ESPN. Imagine how much impact a packed and loud Fargodome would have on national TV versus a road game on a Wednesday night vs. Ball State.

[bisonfan08]

I did a little looking on TV ratings, in 2010 the FCS Championship game had a rating of 1.3. (I couldn't find any numbers for the 2011 game). This was the highest rating for quite some time probably influenced by the fact Montana was in the game and they have a fairly strong following. However this game was also scheduled on a Friday night which probably hurt ratings a bit. On a side note Montana vs. App State the week before had a 1.7 share which was a record.

Last year a bowl game for two non-BCS teams had a ratings between 1.5-2.5. http://http://www.bcsfootball.org/news/story?id=4819384

So there appears to be some additional exposure in terms of butts watching the game. Plus only two teams make it to the national championship game in FCS where you can play just over .500 football and make it to a Bowl game.

Yes it's more butts watching that one game, but you also have to remember that to get to the championship game you are on TV playing 3 playoff games before that as well, or 2 if you have a bye. Overall there's no doubt more people are going to tune in to a FBS game over an FCS game, but financially you need to be able to support the move without relying on any additional outside coverage. Unless we would get into the Big Ten or Big 12 or another major conference, the television coverage of the regular season is not going to change much, which won't generate additional revenue for the school. The dome already nearly sells out or does sell out for most home games already so a bump in ticket prices is the only way to generate more revenue there and that is definitely not a fan friendly move. I'm not opposed to NDSU going to FBS in the future, as a matter of fact I'd love to see it (because eventually I'm hoping FBS also has a playoff system), but for right now NDSU has plenty of other things to worry about financially with the SHAC project not even under construction yet. If they get everything else in order and completed over the next 2-3 years and the donations continue to grow through teammakers I could see us making the jump by 2020.

[goldenshower]

I...for one...am not suggesting a move to a bad FBS conference that is overshadowed by one of the big ones. That would be stupid.

ndsu wont get an invite into the big ten so fcs is the best thing for the bison. of all the info printed nationally i think the goal is to take the top 6-8 conferences and make them 16-18 team super conferences. and the long awaited playoff system will be born. as for those that dont qualify, join the fcs and make some new better version and ndsu still can have success without the worry about where money can come from.

[TransAmBison]

The naysayers ignore the way this was laid out. The naysayers come out of the woodwork. Most of them would have said stay in DII so they have no credibility. Nobody except for the team winning and maybe the loser and their fans give a rip about FCS playoffs. Quit fooling yourselves DII Pats. At a minimum 10 times the exposure for any FBS bowl game. Naysayers have no aspirations and believe in taking no risks. Just stay smalltime.
Hi, I'm TAB and I do not approve of this message. Too black and white. Either a person or FBS or they are smalltime? A person could not have been for moving to FCS but not want to go to FBS? You say they wanted to stay D-II...where are your facts? Just an opinion. Where is the money coming from? You do realize you would be priced out of your seats if they went FBS...not to mention the increase in tailgate lot pricing...

[99Bison]

ndsu wont get an invite into the big ten so fcs is the best thing for the bison. of all the info printed nationally i think the goal is to take the top 6-8 conferences and make them 16-18 team super conferences. and the long awaited playoff system will be born. as for those that dont qualify, join the fcs and make some new better version and ndsu still can have success without the worry about where money can come from.


Oh man, then NDSU would be stuck playing the lowly gophers in conference every year then :( :(



I kid, I kid :)

[onbison09]

I...for one...am not suggesting a move to a bad FBS conference that is overshadowed by one of the big ones. That would be stupid.

So where we would go exactly? We aren't getting a BCS invite anytime soon unless some really crazy stuff happens.

[duluthbison]

I tend to lean with others here who say that it's not a matter of if...but when NDSU moves up to FBS. The FM metro area is poised to growth still which is one of the main ingredients for a successfull program - community support. Plus the added people in the metro = larger market audience for TV time/commercials.

But I have a hard time believing that we will head to the MAC, WAC, or PAC10 since they are way out of our way, kinda like how UND is an island with the BSC. The only exception to this is that the MAC which does overlap somewhat with our recruiting territory.

MAC Conference
http://www.obsessedwithsports.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/Mid-American_Conference_map.png

WAC Conference
http://www.eskimo.com/~mcg/soccerprofiles/colleges/soccerprofiles-western-athletic-conference/wac%20map.jpg

PAC 10 Conference
http://www.sconefest.com/john/college/pac10_map.gif

I think if we move up, we should set our sights on the Big 10 or Big 12. The footprints of these conferences are well within some of our current recruiting grounds. Plus we would be playing reigonal teams that people actually know about and care about.

Big 10 Conference
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/07/BigTenLocations.png/350px-BigTenLocations.png


Big 12 Conference
http://www.llstudents.org/corth/big12map.png

I believe that all of this is at the very least - 10 years away but more likely to happen with in the next 20. But NDSU should start thinking and planning, just in case the situation arises.

[Bison03]

Sure Fargo is growing and the landscape of conferences is ever changing. That being said, NDSU is not going to the FBS anytime soon. Fargo is too small. Maybe first we should get 18,000 consistantly at football games because you need at least 25,000 per game to be successfull in FBS. Also, why don't we focus on becoming an FCS powerhouse and win a championship or two before we think we can run with the bog boys. Not that we should not always be thinking big but lets check our ego a little.

[EndZoneQB]

We won't be in a BCS conference in 20 years.

[roadwarrior]

We won't be in a BCS conference in 20 years.

Or 50.....

[TransAmBison]

Or 50.....
Put me down for 51.

[goldenshower]

I tend to lean with others here who say that it's not a matter of if...but when NDSU moves up to FBS. The FM metro area is poised to growth still which is one of the main ingredients for a successfull program - community support. Plus the added people in the metro = larger market audience for TV time/commercials.

But I have a hard time believing that we will head to the MAC, WAC, or PAC10 since they are way out of our way, kinda like how UND is an island with the BSC. The only exception to this is that the MAC which does overlap somewhat with our recruiting territory.

MAC Conference
http://www.obsessedwithsports.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/Mid-American_Conference_map.png

WAC Conference
http://www.eskimo.com/~mcg/soccerprofiles/colleges/soccerprofiles-western-athletic-conference/wac%20map.jpg

PAC 10 Conference
http://www.sconefest.com/john/college/pac10_map.gif

I think if we move up, we should set our sights on the Big 10 or Big 12. The footprints of these conferences are well within some of our current recruiting grounds. Plus we would be playing reigonal teams that people actually know about and care about.

Big 10 Conference
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/07/BigTenLocations.png/350px-BigTenLocations.png


Big 12 Conference
http://www.llstudents.org/corth/big12map.png

I believe that all of this is at the very least - 10 years away but more likely to happen with in the next 20. But NDSU should start thinking and planning, just in case the situation arises.


ndsu's academics are not on par with the big ten, sorry!

[duluthbison]

ndsu's academics are not on par with the big ten, sorry!

Well our research puts us in the same club as the big 10.


North Dakota State University has joined the nation's top 108 public and private universities in the Carnegie Commission on Higher Education's elite category of "Research Universities/Very High Research Activity."
http://classifications.carnegiefoundation.org/lookup_listings/srp.php?clq={%22basic2005_ids%22%3A%2215%22}&limit=0,50

[goldenshower]

Well our research puts us in the same club as the big 10.


http://classifications.carnegiefoundation.org/lookup_listings/srp.php?clq={%22basic2005_ids%22%3A%2215%22}&limit=0,50

http://www.arwu.org/Country2010Main.jsp?param=United%20States

all 12 big ten schools are on this list, still cant find ndsu.

all that research must be bringing a lot of recognition to ndsu-but on a different list...

[BlueBisonRock]

ndsu's academics are not on par with the big ten, sorry!

Apologies, but I disagree. I have experienced the academic culture at both the U and NDSU through my experiences. I also worked with my daughter as she went through the U. Frankly, though strictly a personal opinion, NDSU provides a superior experience with much improved professor and student interaction.

You may also want to examine the records to compare the percentage of completion in four years between the schools. Again, NDSU serves its student population in a superior fashion.

[344Johnson]

You get your money's worth at NDSU. If I am going to live in the dorms and everything for 4 years at NDSU, It will run how much guys? 55-60 thousand?

At the U? Probably 85 grand?

[Bison bison]

NDSU: 54,204
Minnesota: 79,780

The U is a great school, but there is no way I'd spend an extra $25k for an undergraduate education there.

[goldenshower]

Apologies, but I disagree. I have experienced the academic culture at both the U and NDSU through my experiences. I also worked with my daughter as she went through the U. Frankly, though strictly a personal opinion, NDSU provides a superior experience with much improved professor and student interaction.

You may also want to examine the records to compare the percentage of completion in four years between the schools. Again, NDSU serves its student population in a superior fashion.

ndsu has what 15,000 students while minnesota has 50000 i would hope ndsu serves its students on a more personal level than at minnesota. also ndsu is a good school, but its not on the level of big ten academics.

there are a lot of schools better than minnesota-its nothing personal it is what it is

[BlueBisonRock]

The NDSU undergrad will pay approximately 60 to 65 percent of the bill at the UofMn.

[Bison bison]

You may also want to examine the records to compare the percentage of completion in four years between the schools.

Those figures are atrocious for both schools.

NDSU: 19%
U: 41%

http://www.ohe.state.mn.us/pdf/Enrollment/INSIGHT/InsightJan10.htm

[Twentysix]

ndsu has what 15,000 students while minnesota has 50000 i would hope ndsu serves its students on a more personal level than at minnesota. also ndsu is a good school, but its not on the level of big ten academics.

there are a lot of schools better than minnesota-its nothing personal it is what it is

According to what you listed theres only 27 in the world that are better than minnesota. If you break it down into departments im sure thats not the case.

I wonder how that ranking is done, and how much of it depends only on graduate students.

http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/north-dakota-state-9265/rankings

NDSU #191 in US according to this source. Again not sure how the criteria compare.

[Twentysix]

You may also want to examine the records to compare the percentage of completion in four years between the schools. Again, NDSU serves its student population in a superior fashion.
.

In 4 years? What about finished school even in 10 years.. My close group of 10 friends when i was a starting freshman only 3 still go to school here. 3 transfered 2 of those dropped out at the other school and the other 4 dropped out at ndsu somewhere between semester 2 and there juniour year.
One Is at the U of M doing physics. One is a civil engineer at Ndsu. And I am history at NDSU. The last guy i dont talk to anymore but i see him around. I guess one of the drop outs is in school at the U of mary right now... hard to say if he will finish there, no idea why he would shell out the extra $$$.

Just from personal experience id bet less than 30% of freshman ever graduate. Im sure students who transfer to NDSU inflate graduation numbers, I would think they would be more committed to graduation than a freshman.

[HerdBot]

I tend to lean with others here who say that it's not a matter of if...but when NDSU moves up to FBS. The FM metro area is poised to growth still which is one of the main ingredients for a successfull program - community support. Plus the added people in the metro = larger market audience for TV time/commercials.

But I have a hard time believing that we will head to the MAC, WAC, or PAC10 since they are way out of our way, kinda like how UND is an island with the BSC. The only exception to this is that the MAC which does overlap somewhat with our recruiting territory.

MAC Conference
http://www.obsessedwithsports.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/Mid-American_Conference_map.png

WAC Conference
http://www.eskimo.com/~mcg/soccerprofiles/colleges/soccerprofiles-western-athletic-conference/wac%20map.jpg

PAC 10 Conference
http://www.sconefest.com/john/college/pac10_map.gif

I think if we move up, we should set our sights on the Big 10 or Big 12. The footprints of these conferences are well within some of our current recruiting grounds. Plus we would be playing reigonal teams that people actually know about and care about.

Big 10 Conference
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/07/BigTenLocations.png/350px-BigTenLocations.png


Big 12 Conference
http://www.llstudents.org/corth/big12map.png

I believe that all of this is at the very least - 10 years away but more likely to happen with in the next 20. But NDSU should start thinking and planning, just in case the situation arises.


Geographically speaking it makes sense but let's be real. Were not going to the Big Ten ever in our lifetime. Do we want to compare football stadiums? TCF, The Big House, Ohio State, Nebraska.. we would need a 200 million dollar donation just to get a stadium. The otber sports would thrive too with annual games. Could we compete? Yeah with extra scholarships we could be a middle of the road team and compete with the Northwesterns, Illinois, Purdues, and Indianas of the world. Once in a blue moon we could knock off an Iowa. But we could never compete with the Ohio States, Penn States, and Nebraskas of the world. Thats ok because nobody can. It would be worth it to see that win once in our lifetime. We could get a slick bowl invite. But its not gonna happen.

The MAC is perfect too for geography. The wac doesn't make sense but its way too prestigious to turn down. How about the Mountain West?

[AjaxTheMighty]

The naysayers ignore the way this was laid out. The naysayers come out of the woodwork. Most of them would have said stay in DII so they have no credibility. Nobody except for the team winning and maybe the loser and their fans give a rip about FCS playoffs. Quit fooling yourselves DII Pats. At a minimum 10 times the exposure for any FBS bowl game. Naysayers have no aspirations and believe in taking no risks. Just stay smalltime.

Can the FBS/Exposure crowd answer these 2 questions:
1.)What year is NDSU making the move to FBS?
2.)Will you be on suicide watch until then?

[Twentysix]

2025. Only if there isnt a 17th twilight by then.

Thats like 27 years in FCS including transition.... or not...lol

[onbison09]

We won't be in a BCS conference ever (unless there's a lot of changes)

Fixed it for you. :hide:

[JMB]

Those figures are atrocious for both schools.

NDSU: 19%
U: 41%

http://www.ohe.state.mn.us/pdf/Enrollment/INSIGHT/InsightJan10.htm

When I was in school at the end of last century, they were encouraging students (at least the engineering types) to take a semester long internship. Not sure how those would effect those numbers.

[duluthbison]

When I was in school at the end of last century, they were encouraging students (at least the engineering types) to take a semester long internship. Not sure how those would effect those numbers.

It's still highly encouraged by NDSU admin to take a semester long internship. Their reasoning is that you will have a leg up on everyone else once you graduate since you have experience. I'm actually in one right now, if I didn't take the internship, I would have been graduating this spring - in 4 years total. But now I am going to graduate in December and thats with 1 degree switch in the middle. I would be willing to bet that many at NDSU are in the same boat as me.

[DjKyRo]

It's still highly encouraged by NDSU admin to take a semester long internship. Their reasoning is that you will have a leg up on everyone else once you graduate since you have experience. I'm actually in one right now, if I didn't take the internship, I would have been graduating this spring - in 4 years total. But now I am going to graduate in December and thats with 1 degree switch in the middle. I would be willing to bet that many at NDSU are in the same boat as me.

I'm on my third major and with an internship as well, I should be done in a total of nine semesters (4.5 years).

[Bison bison]

It's still highly encouraged by NDSU admin to take a semester long internship. Their reasoning is that you will have a leg up on everyone else once you graduate since you have experience. I'm actually in one right now, if I didn't take the internship, I would have been graduating this spring - in 4 years total. But now I am going to graduate in December and thats with 1 degree switch in the middle. I would be willing to bet that many at NDSU are in the same boat as me.

semester at sea?

[TheBisonator]

Geographically speaking it makes sense but let's be real. Were not going to the Big Ten ever in our lifetime. Do we want to compare football stadiums? TCF, The Big House, Ohio State, Nebraska.. we would need a 200 million dollar donation just to get a stadium. The otber sports would thrive too with annual games. Could we compete? Yeah with extra scholarships we could be a middle of the road team and compete with the Northwesterns, Illinois, Purdues, and Indianas of the world. Once in a blue moon we could knock off an Iowa. But we could never compete with the Ohio States, Penn States, and Nebraskas of the world. Thats ok because nobody can. It would be worth it to see that win once in our lifetime. We could get a slick bowl invite. But its not gonna happen.

The MAC is perfect too for geography. The wac doesn't make sense but its way too prestigious to turn down. How about the Mountain West?

Anyone who thinks we'll someday be in the Big 10(12) or Big 12(10) is insane. I'm not looking for something like that anyway.

But there are a number of schools in the Western US who are our institutional and athletic peers. Take a look back at the dream conference thread I posted not too long ago. The 20-22 or so schools out west that comprise the MWC and WAC and the Montana Schools, plus us and SDSU may settle in with similar programs sometimes in the future.

[duluthbison]

Anyone who thinks we'll someday be in the Big 10(12) or Big 12(10) is insane. I'm not looking for something like that anyway.

But there are a number of schools in the Western US who are our institutional and athletic peers. Take a look back at the dream conference thread I posted not too long ago. The 20-22 or so schools out west that comprise the MWC and WAC and the Montana Schools, plus us and SDSU may settle in with similar programs sometimes in the future.

I can dream can't I? Who knows, one day it may be possible :)

The WAC is the only one that could be viable.

[BisonNeil]

http://www.arwu.org/Country2010Main.jsp?param=United%20States

all 12 big ten schools are on this list, still cant find ndsu.

all that research must be bringing a lot of recognition to ndsu-but on a different list...

You will have to forgive my passionate friends, they don't really understand the academic issue versus NSF/Carnagie ranking. But also understand that most academics look at the criteria and ranking of the site you provided as pure crap as well. What truly matters for ranking academic insitutions in the USA is whether or not an institution is a member of the AAU.

For the record, in order to belong to the Big 10 an institution has to be a member of a very exclusive group of academic institutions, that being the AAU. All Big 10 universities are members, NDSU is not. That is why when the Big 10 was looking to expand recently, the list was very short of those eligible in meeting this criterium.

http://www.aau.edu/about/article.aspx?id=5476

There was a lot made about Notre Dame being invited to the B10 and that they snubbed the conference. My guess is that was all fluff and there was not one ounce of truth to that story. The University of Notre Dame is not an AAU member and, therefore, not eligible for admission into the B10 UNLESS all 11 President's agreed and voted for an exception. That wasn't going to happen, which is why only the University of Nebraska was offered membership.

[JMB]

You will have to forgive my passionate friends, they don't really understand the academic issue versus NSF/Carnagie ranking. But also understand that most academics look at the criteria and ranking of the site you provided as pure crap as well. What truly matters for ranking academic insitutions in the USA is whether or not an institution is a member of the AAU.

For the record, in order to belong to the Big 10 an institution has to be a member of a very exclusive group of academic institutions, that being the AAU. All Big 10 universities are members, NDSU is not. That is why when the Big 10 was looking to expand recently, the list was very short of those eligible in meeting this criterium.

http://www.aau.edu/about/article.aspx?id=5476

There was a lot made about Notre Dame being invited to the B10 and that they snubbed the conference. My guess is that was all fluff and there was not one ounce of truth to that story. The University of Notre Dame is not an AAU member and, therefore, not eligible for admission into the B10 UNLESS all 11 President's agreed and voted for an exception. That wasn't going to happen, which is why only the University of Nebraska was offered membership.

The thing that is interesting about the Big 10 is that it is bigger than just an athletic conference. They also cooperate on research as well... They actually have a seperate committee focused on that cooperation..

That is why it is also a pipe dream for the Sioux to join as a "Hockey Only" member.

[TheBisonator]

The thing that is interesting about the Big 10 is that it is bigger than just an athletic conference. They also cooperate on research as well... They actually have a seperate committee focused on that cooperation..

That is why it is also a pipe dream for the Sioux to join as a "Hockey Only" member.

Agreed. The Big Ten is an all-or nothing proposition. You're either all-in or not at all.

But it is interesting to see if Notre Dame will be let in for hockey.

[westnodak93bison]

You will have to forgive my passionate friends, they don't really understand the academic issue versus NSF/Carnagie ranking. But also understand that most academics look at the criteria and ranking of the site you provided as pure crap as well. What truly matters for ranking academic insitutions in the USA is whether or not an institution is a member of the AAU.

For the record, in order to belong to the Big 10 an institution has to be a member of a very exclusive group of academic institutions, that being the AAU. All Big 10 universities are members, NDSU is not. That is why when the Big 10 was looking to expand recently, the list was very short of those eligible in meeting this criterium.

http://www.aau.edu/about/article.aspx?id=5476

There was a lot made about Notre Dame being invited to the B10 and that they snubbed the conference. My guess is that was all fluff and there was not one ounce of truth to that story. The University of Notre Dame is not an AAU member and, therefore, not eligible for admission into the B10 UNLESS all 11 President's agreed and voted for an exception. That wasn't going to happen, which is why only the University of Nebraska was offered membership.

So that is where their near "ivy league" type arrogance comes from. I've worked with several engineers from big ten schools and they really are convinced that their degree makes them smarter and more valuable than us lowly NDSU alum.

[56BISON73]

You will have to forgive my passionate friends, they don't really understand the academic issue versus NSF/Carnagie ranking. But also understand that most academics look at the criteria and ranking of the site you provided as pure crap as well. What truly matters for ranking academic insitutions in the USA is whether or not an institution is a member of the AAU.

For the record, in order to belong to the Big 10 an institution has to be a member of a very exclusive group of academic institutions, that being the AAU. All Big 10 universities are members, NDSU is not. That is why when the Big 10 was looking to expand recently, the list was very short of those eligible in meeting this criterium.

http://www.aau.edu/about/article.aspx?id=5476

There was a lot made about Notre Dame being invited to the B10 and that they snubbed the conference. My guess is that was all fluff and there was not one ounce of truth to that story. The University of Notre Dame is not an AAU member and, therefore, not eligible for admission into the B10 UNLESS all 11 President's agreed and voted for an exception. That wasn't going to happen, which is why only the University of Nebraska was offered membership.

Nebraska flunked out of AAU. OOPS

http://www.omaha.com/article/20110429/NEWS01/110428852/1009#academic-group-drops-unl

[No_Skill]

Find the money for the BSA and other NDSU sports projects and then start to find the money for increased scholarships, coaches salaries, stadium improvements/new arena, etc and then this will be more feasible. The current projects HAVE to be done first before this ever happens.



I found it....


$1 billion
The state of North Dakota’s current budget surplus. By contrast, neighboring Minnesota has a $5 billion budget deficit (http://www.echopress.com/event/article/id/83167/group/News/).

[TheBisonator]

I found it....


$1 billion
The state of North Dakota’s current budget surplus. By contrast, neighboring Minnesota has a $5 billion budget deficit (http://www.echopress.com/event/article/id/83167/group/News/).

Problem is too many politicians in ND who would rather see NDSU be discontinued than give one red penny to NDSU.

What you're talking about would be really nice if NDSU had any kind of advocacy behind it in the state government.

[No_Skill]

There's one benefit about moving up that i haven't read anywhere and that's the possibility of hosting a bcs school.

Even if we were in some low level conference, every once in a while we might get a home game with one of the "big boys".

I'm not saying that alone would justify the move...but it would be pretty sweet.

[TheBisonator]

There's one benefit about moving up that i haven't read anywhere and that's the possibility of hosting a bcs school.

Even if we were in some low level conference, every once in a while we might get a home game with one of the "big boys".

I'm not saying that alone would justify the move...but it would be pretty sweet.

Wyoming is hosting Nebraska this year.

Two years ago they hosted freakin' TEXAS.

It would take at least a 2-for-1, but it would happen. No matter how low on the FBS totem pole you are, BCS schools are willing to travel to your place, if of course the price is right.

Imagine Iowa State or Oklahoma State playing the Bison at an expanded FFD. People would be offering BJs for tickets to that one.

[SDbison]

Wyoming is hosting Nebraska this year.

Two years ago they hosted freakin' TEXAS.

It would take at least a 2-for-1, but it would happen. No matter how low on the FBS totem pole you are, BCS schools are willing to travel to your place if of course the price is right.
Yeah, but the Fargodome hosts teams like Robert Morris, Morgan State, and the two losers at the start of next season on a regular basis.....why change as a namesake state university with no FBS teams......I mean we can play for the who cares in the US national championship.

[rutlandbison]

Yeah, but the Fargodome hosts teams like Robert Morris, Morgan State, and the two losers at the start of next season on a regular basis.....why change as a namesake state university with no FBS teams......I mean we can play for the who cares in the US national championship.
They were a playoff team. Are you suggesting we go FBS? Hope you're ready to increase your donations to the university.

I don't think we have a shot in hell hosting a FBS school. There is no way they would travel to a FCS school. Basketball is different, once DI, you are the same level as Duke, UNC, and Kansas State.

[goldenshower]

I found it....


$1 billion
The state of North Dakota’s current budget surplus. By contrast, neighboring Minnesota has a $5 billion budget deficit (http://www.echopress.com/event/article/id/83167/group/News/).


http://www.forbes.com/lists/2010/44/debt-10_North-Dakota_090013.html

north dakota is better than minnesota...obviously, but my question is this;
how come this is a negative number with so much prosperity and happiness in nd? Average annual net migration -1,800

also, with all that oil money why is your gross state product so low?

this pissing match should be over now.

[CaBisonFan]

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2010/44/debt-10_North-Dakota_090013.html

north dakota is better than minnesota...obviously, but my question is this;
how come this is a negative number with so much prosperity and happiness in nd? Average annual net migration -1,800

also, with all that oil money why is your gross state product so low?

this pissing match should be over now.

You'll get no love here. You're on the wrong board for that.

A lot of North Dakotans respect Minnesota. It would be nice to get a little bit of respect in return. That's all. Over at the gopherhole your kind of responses would receive brutal attacks. It wouldn't matter whether you were correct or not.

[Herd]

The only respect north dakota gets is on gridiron or the ice vs mn. Prior to football we will read that mn will win by 40, then the actual game will be +/- 3. Then the mn message boards will talk about their worst team in history. 2006-2011 will be their worst 6 year span in history I am sure. I actually like mn football, but their fans like to wear their blinders.

[semobison]

I like Minnesota and Montana! Minnesotans and Montanans, not so much!

[SDbison]

The only respect north dakota gets is on gridiron or the ice vs mn. Prior to football we will read that mn will win by 40, then the actual game will be +/- 3. Then the mn message boards will talk about their worst team in history. 2006-2011 will be their worst 6 year span in history I am sure. I actually like mn football, but their fans like to wear their blinders.
Minnesota Goofers have stunk up I-A and Big Ten college football for the majority of the past 50 years. It would have been interesting to see the 1980's Bison teams take on the Goofs. Just because NDSU didn't play Minnesota for so many years does not mean the Goofers would crush the Bison like earlier in the 1900's. Back then I am sure Bison football had little or no budget as compared to a Big Ten team.
Unlike the Goofs, for the past 50 years Bison football enjoyed a winning tradition, and relatively speaking a great following of fans. Even more so now, with some damn good facilities and excellent support the Bison are pretty close to the level of the higher division struggling Goofer program.
I am confident Minnesota wishes they had a comparable amount of success and fan support as NDSU. But of course NDSU is nothing in the eyes of the "desperate for a win" goofer fans. The Bison might just have to beat the Goofers by a couple touchdowns this time to get some respect.

[344Johnson]

Minnesota Goofers have stunk up I-A and Big Ten college football for the majority of the past 50 years. It would have been interesting to see the 1980's Bison teams take on the Goofs. Just because NDSU didn't play Minnesota for so many years does not mean the Goofers would crush the Bison like earlier in the 1900's. Back then I am sure Bison football had little or no budget as compared to a Big Ten team.
Unlike the Goofs, for the past 50 years Bison football enjoyed a winning tradition, and relatively speaking a great following of fans. Even more so now, with some damn good facilities and excellent support the Bison are pretty close to the level of the higher division struggling Goofer program.
I am confident Minnesota wishes they had a comparable amount of success and fan support as NDSU. But of course NDSU is nothing in the eyes of the "desperate for a win" goofer fans. The Bison might just have to beat the Goofers by a couple touchdowns this time to get some respect.

Eh, they'll complain and say one of the touchdowns was on a long run with a few minutes left and that clearly, holding was everywhere on that play.

[BisonNeil]

Nebraska flunked out of AAU. OOPS

http://www.omaha.com/article/20110429/NEWS01/110428852/1009#academic-group-drops-unl

You beat me to it, I just read about this on ESPN. This is a big deal, UNL has been an AAU member since 1909. Ouch! Wonder if this will affect their membership?

http://espn.go.com/blog/bigten/post/_/id/26078/nebraska-loses-aau-status

[Bison bison]

I find it funny that the AAU excludes ag research funding from its performance metrics.

Makes Smee think they're a bunch of smug pricks.