Could F-M historically ever be a major US city??

[TheBisonator]

Was it ever possible for F-M throughout history to end up being like a Kansas City to Minneapolis' St. Louis, so-to-speak?? F-M was founded in such a strategic location, I believe it was founded in the 1870's with the intent to be the largest city on the Northern Pacific Railroad.

I'm not really asking about the future, I'm just asking historically, and if there was ever a chance we could've been, and if there was, what happened to stop it??

I'm talking about if things could've happened in the past that would lead to F-M being a city of 1.5 million people today rather than 209,000 people. I don't think one can say "oh, it never would've happened" without really understanding the history. I know that F-M had a geographical location that was a huge advantage, but I have to look at other big cities, and how they grew. Kansas City was where all the meat was processed. Winnipeg was literally the glue that held Canada together, and everything going through that country (and the British Empire) went through there.

I know that Fargo was once the key place where they built all the farm machinery. I also know that corn and wheat and other crop futures were once traded in Fargo. One wonders if F-M focused too much on ag related business right before the ag bust and Dust Bowl happened. It seems that Omaha did a better job of establishing itself as the center of the ag universe throughout the pre-war and post-war decades than Fargo did. Was there just not enough money in Fargo to go past that critical mass? Maybe flooding threats drove a lot of potential business away. Did the weather have as bad a reputation way back in the day as it does now??

It just seems to me that right after they built the NP Railroad over the Red River, that was a key crucial moment in deciding how big the city was to grow. Did not enough people initially settle the townsite?? Could they have established some type of huge industry in Fargo right after the railroad ties were laid?? I truly think Fargo-Moorhead had the potential to have been a metro area today very comparable in size to Milwaukee or Kansas City.

I kinda find it fascinating, and I was wondering what you think.

Going to the website fargo-history.org gives a lot of good info. although I don't even know if it exists still.

[BlueBisonRock]

Was it ever possible for F-M throughout history to end up being like a Kansas City to Minneapolis' St. Louis, so-to-speak?? F-M was founded in such a strategic location, I believe it was founded in the 1870's with the intent to be the largest city on the Northern Pacific Railroad.

I'm not really asking about the future, I'm just asking historically, and if there was ever a chance we could've been, and if there was, what happened to stop it??

I'm talking about if things could've happened in the past that would lead to F-M being a city of 1.5 million people today rather than 209,000 people. I don't think one can say "oh, it never would've happened" without really understanding the history. I know that F-M had a geographical location that was a huge advantage, but I have to look at other big cities, and how they grew. Kansas City was where all the meat was processed. Winnipeg was literally the glue that held Canada together, and everything going through that country (and the British Empire) went through there.

I know that Fargo was once the key place where they built all the farm machinery. I also know that corn and wheat and other crop futures were once traded in Fargo. One wonders if F-M focused too much on ag related business right before the ag bust and Dust Bowl happened. It seems that Omaha did a better job of establishing itself as the center of the ag universe throughout the pre-war and post-war decades than Fargo did. Was there just not enough money in Fargo to go past that critical mass? Maybe flooding threats drove a lot of potential business away. Did the weather have as bad a reputation way back in the day as it does now??

It just seems to me that right after they built the NP Railroad over the Red River, that was a key crucial moment in deciding how big the city was to grow. Did not enough people initially settle the townsite?? Could they have established some type of huge industry in Fargo right after the railroad ties were laid?? I truly think Fargo-Moorhead had the potential to have been a metro area today very comparable in size to Milwaukee or Kansas City.

I kinda find it fascinating, and I was wondering what you think.

Going to the website fargo-history.org gives a lot of good info. although I don't even know if it exists still.

Bonanza Farms (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonanza_farms)

[lakesbison]

I 29 and I 94 converge in fargo, its a MAJOR US DRUG TRAFFICKING SPOT!

[EndZoneQB]

I 29 and I 94 converge in fargo, its a MAJOR US DRUG TRAFFICKING SPOT!

This. They live in the Romkey area in Moorhead. My childhood was interesting to say the least. Moorhead used to be ROUGH, like big city rough.

[TheBisonator]

This. They live in the Romkey area in Moorhead. My childhood was interesting to say the least. Moorhead used to be ROUGH, like big city rough.

My brother lives in that neighbourhood. Still the roughest neighbourhood in either Fargo or Moorhead.

Going back to the original topic, what do you think could've in theory made F-M rise to the level of major city??

[lakesbison]

FBS football could help it and basketball getting into the MVC!

[NDSUstudent]

Fargo was basically always destined to be in the shadow of Twin Cities.

Plus a lot of people thought of the great plains as a desert and didn't settle here until later when people figured out what crops would work here.

Cities like Omaha and KC benefited from being in a better climate, more central location(a lot more people had to pass through when heading west) and they also had access into the beef industry. Plus the Missouri river is right there, which is a much bigger and more important river than the Red since it flowed south into St Louis and New Orleans.

So to answer your question Fargo never was destined to be a big city, nobody really stopped it from being so. Really Fargo has done a great job in playing the cards it has been dealt. It has basically been a very stable and always growing city.

[GOB1SON]

I'm glad Fargo has grown the way it has. In fact, it is growing too fast for my taste. I have no interest in living in a huge metro. If I need to go to the theater, attend an NFL game, or eat at a Melting Pot, M-SP is only 3 hours away and makes for a great weekend getaway. If I had to live in M-SP for more than a year I am afraid I would end up growing my hair out, moving to a cabin on a mountain somewhere and start working on my manifesto.

Fargo's early growth was a factor of a couple of things I would think. No river port is a big factor. All goods were moved via rail or by teamster. Winter would have had a huge affect on this. Winter keeps a lot of folks from setting in the region, so labor demographics for processing is limited.

Ag was (and still is) king in this region. Most of the large cities (KC, Omaha, St. Paul, Chicago) in the upper midwest had huge stockyards and packing houses, supported by a local livestock feeding industry. Fargo did too (West Fargo Packers), but at a much smaller scale. The winters and the soil in the valley were not very conducive to feeding livestock, even if the feed supplies were very abundant. The packing industry died in the 60's and early 70's as did most of the feeding.

Fargo and Sioux Falls are very similar in this regard. However, Sioux Falls still has more raw goods processing than Fargo has.

[bisonmike2]

I 29 and I 94 converge in fargo, its a MAJOR US DRUG TRAFFICKING SPOT!

First RIP Lakes. (pours one out for my homey)

A couple of years ago I was watching America's Most Wanted and they did a segment on a drug dealer who was operating out of Moorhead MN. Now this peaked my interest because I used to live in Moorhead. In some of the clips, I thought, hmm that house kinda looks familiar. Turns out this dude lived a block away from me. He was burying money and guns in his back yard and I would walk my kid past his house almost every day in the summer. That's all. You've just been cool story bro'd.

[EndZoneQB]

First RIP Lakes. (pours one out for my homey)

A couple of years ago I was watching America's Most Wanted and they did a segment on a drug dealer who was operating out of Moorhead MN. Now this peaked my interest because I used to live in Moorhead. In some of the clips, I thought, hmm that house kinda looks familiar. Turns out this dude lived a block away from me. He was burying money and guns in his back yard and I would walk my kid past his house almost every day in the summer. That's all. You've just been cool story bro'd.

Yep, you must have lived around 20th st and 12th ave area huh? Lots of drug/gang problems over there in past years. Were you around when they had police substations in all of those apartments over there? Moorhead is hard*.






*More head on the other hand, is not hard** but fun.
**Or is it?

[bisonmike2]

Yep, you must have lived around 20th st and 12th ave area huh? Lots of drug/gang problems over there in past years. Were you around when they had police substations in all of those apartments over there? Moorhead is hard*.






*More head on the other hand, is not hard** but fun.
**Or is it?

yeah, we had no idea how shitty the neighborhood was until after we moved away. First house I ever owned. So I guess I could say I used to live in the hood.

[JMB]

I'm glad Fargo has grown the way it has. In fact, it is growing too fast for my taste. I have no interest in living in a huge metro. If I need to go to the theater, attend an NFL game, or eat at a Melting Pot, M-SP is only 3 hours away and makes for a great weekend getaway. If I had to live in M-SP for more than a year I am afraid I would end up growing my hair out, moving to a cabin on a mountain somewhere and start working on my manifesto.

Fargo's early growth was a factor of a couple of things I would think. No river port is a big factor. All goods were moved via rail or by teamster. Winter would have had a huge affect on this. Winter keeps a lot of folks from setting in the region, so labor demographics for processing is limited.

Ag was (and still is) king in this region. Most of the large cities (KC, Omaha, St. Paul, Chicago) in the upper midwest had huge stockyards and packing houses, supported by a local livestock feeding industry. Fargo did too (West Fargo Packers), but at a much smaller scale. The winters and the soil in the valley were not very conducive to feeding livestock, even if the feed supplies were very abundant. The packing industry died in the 60's and early 70's as did most of the feeding.

Fargo and Sioux Falls are very similar in this regard. However, Sioux Falls still has more raw goods processing than Fargo has.

Another issue limiting the growth of Fargo is (ironically) a lack of consistant water source. In the summer it is not uncommon for the Red to shrink to practically nothing.

[TransAmBison]

Another issue limiting the growth of Fargo is (ironically) a lack of consistant water source. In the summer it is not uncommon for the Red to shrink to practically nothing.
sounds like a personal problem to me...

[JMB]

sounds like a personal problem to me...

Ahhh.... I got nothing....

[TransAmBison]

Ahhh.... I got nothing....
I think you can get a prescription for that. I bet Answer Guy could even recommend where to get the best price.

[Hammersmith]

To the original topic, F-M could never have been a major US city because of the Red. It's not deep enough, and it flows the wrong way. Cities grow large because of transportation, and Fargo didn't get a second major axis of that until the the 60's or 70's(I-29). Additionally, we are too close to MSP(which has the Mississippi), and we don't have a major natural resource in close proximity(MSP had iron and lumber). If coal had been discovered earlier, Bismarck might have had a chance to be the state's largest city, but I don't know if the Missouri River was deep enough all the way from there to Omaha to handle heavy barge traffic(even before the dams). Nope, F-M is a nice intermediate city, but we never could have been a major one.

[EndZoneQB]

Another issue limiting the growth of Fargo is (ironically) a lack of consistant water source. In the summer it is not uncommon for the Red to shrink to practically nothing.

That hasn't happened in awhile tho...they are predicting it could be at or near flood stage a lot of the summer.

[JMB]

That hasn't happened in awhile tho...they are predicting it could be at or near flood stage a lot of the summer.

Yeah it has probably been 20 years or so. I remember in the late 80s water restrictions being in place.

[sambini]

Water restrictions are in place every summer.