lets drop baseball and add hockey

[mgbison]

Honestly, we are never gonna be competitive in baseball. After seeing all the UND shirts in the twin cities the past couple of weeks, i think it would be awesome to add hockey. its a northern sport and we are right next to canada and minnesota.

Could we play at scheels arena?

It would be about the same number of scholarships, but i don't know the title 9 rules, so maybe its not possible.

People may say hockey is only a niche sport in the uppermidwest and out east. they are correct, but we are located in the uppermidwest and it would make ndsu more popular in the tri-state area.

[HandoEX]

Any sport but hockey.

[aces1180]

Honestly, we are never gonna be competitive in baseball. After seeing all the UND shirts in the twin cities the past couple of weeks, i think it would be awesome to add hockey. its a northern sport and we are right next to canada and minnesota.

Could we play at scheels arena?

It would be about the same number of scholarships, but i don't know the title 9 rules, so maybe its not possible.

People may say hockey is only a niche sport in the uppermidwest and out east. they are correct, but we are located in the uppermidwest and it would make ndsu more popular in the tri-state area.

Where's the money gonna come from for that? NDSU can't even finish the SHAC financially.

[onbison09]

I'm totally guessing but hockey would be a lot more expensive than baseball as far as equipment etc but maybe I'm totally wrong.

[Tatanka]

How about let's fully support baseball first. Newman field, other than the fact that it is covered in snow for 8 monthe out of the year, is a first-class facility.

[MN_BISON]

Honestly, we are never gonna be competitive in baseball. After seeing all the UND shirts in the twin cities the past couple of weeks, i think it would be awesome to add hockey. its a northern sport and we are right next to canada and minnesota.

Could we play at scheels arena?

It would be about the same number of scholarships, but i don't know the title 9 rules, so maybe its not possible.

People may say hockey is only a niche sport in the uppermidwest and out east. they are correct, but we are located in the uppermidwest and it would make ndsu more popular in the tri-state area.

It's been forever since I red dotted anyone but damn I was close after reading this, tell me this is a belated April Fools day joke, please! Tell ya what, you write the check and make up the difference between what NDSU puts into its baseball program and what it would take to put a good hockey team on the rink and then we'll talk.

I had a friend from Rochester call me while he was at the Mall of America when all teh hockies fans were in town and he just laughed at all the fat rednecked looking people walking around at the MOA like everyone should be impressed with their hockies sweater. I'm not kidding, that's what he said and of course I reminded him there's a big difference from teh who fans and normal every day Nodaks. If that's what you want, I know some Who boosters who would be more than glad to sign you up. :sigpalm: Buy yourself a Beaver sweater and cheer for them, who doesn't love Beaver?!?

[mgbison]

Hockey could potentially make money, baseball is never gonna make money. We have a first class baseball facility, but we can't play on it until the season is half over.

The big question is if we could use scheels arena (i don;t know if it would be possible).

[DjKyRo]

Ladies and gentlemen, your pre-season favorite for Preposterous Statements 2011-2012.

[aces1180]

UND can have butthockey...We'll succeed at everything else.

[mgbison]

Hells ya, i'll gladly take it.

[ndsubison1]

not this shit again

[99Bison]

Hammer, just post the scholy's of teh hockies + Title IX vs. baseball, then we can cut this short as usual.

[NorthernBison]

Hockey could potentially make money, baseball is never gonna make money. We have a first class baseball facility, but we can't play on it until the season is half over.

The big question is if we could use scheels arena (i don;t know if it would be possible).

Do some research. Adding Men's hockey would throw Title IX compliance way out of whack. Only way to fix that would be to add either women's hockey or two or possibly three other women's sports. Total overall impact is likely a LOSS of money.

[gotts]

Head on over to downtown Osseo to Dick's bar, have a few beers and then reevaluate this.

[Notorious]

Could our club team just join the WCHA??

[mgbison]

It would be interesting to see the financials of the other wcha schools (st cloud, Duluth, etc) to see how much money they make or lose with hockey. Obviously, if you had to add womens hockey, you'd lose money on that, but baseball's never gonna make any money.

If ushl teams can draw 4000 fans, ndsu should be able to do at least that.

With regards to Moorhead state talking about adding hockey, they must see some way to break even because there isn't a sport at msum that makes money. Plus, being a mn state school, they can't have state aid.

[NorthernBison]

Title IX. Really that's all you need to know.

BTW, don't compare DII schools. 27 fewer football scholarships makes it a completely different dynamic.

[bisonpride]

What a STUPID idea financially!

For starters you have no idea just how much money it takes to operate a D1 Hockey team.


#1- Scholarships.
Baseball 11.7(max)
----We are around 7 right now up from 4 three years ago

Hockey 18

#2- Coaches Salaries
Baseball
Head Coach $58,000
Asst Coach $30,000
Asst Coach $30,000
(baseball just added a 2nd full time asst. position this year and added its 1st full time position in 2006)

Hockey
Head Coach- $232,500 (what Hakstol makes right now which is over 30,000 more then Bohl)
Asst Coach- 100,000 (guessing. Eades might make more)
Asst Coach- 75,000

#3- Operations staff
Operations none (coaches do it all)
Equipment Mgr NDSU Staff
Ath Trainer/St Coach NDSU Staff

Hockey (UND has positions JUST for the sport)
Operations $40,000 (guess)
Equipment Mgr $40,000 (guess)
Ath Trainer/St Coach $75,000 (guess, UND has one guy who serves both for hockey only)

#4- Travel
Baseball- 3 flights this year the rest by bus. Probably around $100,000 for the year.
Hockey- probably 5 bus trips the rest by flight. Probably over $400,000 for the year.

#5- Recruiting Budget (scouting, off campus visits, on campus visits)
Baseball- Maybe $25,000 (which would be 3 times more then it was under McLeod)

Hockey- Cant believe it would be under $250,000. Canadian flights aren't cheap out of Grand Forks.

#6- Equipment-
Baseball- Every year Caps, Cleats, socks, batting gloves, bats and baseballs.
replaced every 3 years helmets and catchers gear
(players purchase their own gloves)
Uniforms are replaced about every 5+ years
Guess is $12-$15,000 a year

Hockey- Pretty sure no player pays for anything. Guessing the stick budget is over half of the baseball total equipment budget. (Probably 60+ sticks at $125 ea.) Besides that hockey protective equipment is NOT CHEAP!

#7- Officials- I dont even want to guess how much more a WCHA official is compared to Summit League baseball rates.

#8- Game Facility staff- Hockey would be MUCH larger considering baseballs is virtually nothing.

My best educated guess for total budget
Baseball- $300,000
Hockey- Well over $1.5 million. The coaching salaries equate the total budget for baseball.

The problem with adding mens hockey is you have to add $$$ to the womens athletic budgets because the title IX issue. Which basically means you have to add womens hockey. The baseball budget is where it is at because of the title IX limits. They get whatever is leftover basically after the other mens sports get what they want.

So you need to look at it this way. Would you rather have womens hockey as a complete $ drain on the football program or baseball minding its own business looking for scraps the football team tosses aside.

Just not a very smart fiscal decision.

[roadwarrior]

Great post bisonpride!

Not to mention the lack of a hockey practice facility.

[344Johnson]

Hockey is really cool! Please continue reading though. Other than Michigan, Mich St, Minnesota, Wisconsin, and maybe a couple more, hockey is a sport for schools that really don't have other moneymakers. I don't want to be a Denver, a Lake Superior, or anything like that.

Very expensive sport but on the bright side it isn't overly difficult to add hockey and be competitive at least from what i've seen. Notre Dame I think re-added hockey in the last 10-15 years and are now very successful. Penn State is getting a team and from what I've heard anyway, are expected by Big Ten schools to be good pretty quickly.

A big reason I think it'd be cool to have is that it'd give me something to watch in the winter other than basketball which has maybe a home game per week. And I think eventually if we could beat UND that'd be pretty awesome to beat them at their own thing. That'd probably take quite awhile.

Lets keep baseball(great facility) and save our money for football/basketball. I am not willing to sacrifice making the big dance and the SHAC so we can make a frozen four. I believe thats what the boosters and alumni have indicated as well.

[tjbison]

This is dumb!!!!!!!!!! I vote one more of the smilies be added and thats BEATING A DEAD HORSE

[ndsubison1]

It would be interesting to see the financials of the other wcha schools (st cloud, Duluth, etc) to see how much money they make or lose with hockey. Obviously, if you had to add womens hockey, you'd lose money on that, but baseball's never gonna make any money.

If ushl teams can draw 4000 fans, ndsu should be able to do at least that.

With regards to Moorhead state talking about adding hockey, they must see some way to break even because there isn't a sport at msum that makes money. Plus, being a mn state school, they can't have state aid.

it would take decades to become a money maker like und in hockey. im guessing und is one of the few that actually makes money

[SlickVic]

Let's drop baseball and not add hockey lol

[SDbison]

Any sport but hockey.
Nothing wrong with hockey.....its way better than men's soccer, men's volleyball or men's tennis. Of course Hando we know your favorite, men's gymnastics, is not going to happen.

[aces1180]

Nothing wrong with hockey.....its way better than men's soccer, men's volleyball or men's tennis. Of course Hando we know your favorite, men's gymnastics, is not going to happen.

I like hockey too...It's just so damn expensive and has those bullshit Title IX guidelines that also come into play.

[Twentysix]

Where's the money gonna come from for that? NDSU can't even finish the SHAC financially.

To startup a hockey team its supposed to cost 88 million dollars we are having a rough time scraping toghether 1/3 of that for a multisport complex. source: penn state hockey, use google.

I would guess you would have to have both mens and womens hockey for this to work, probably about 2-3 million a year in upkeep. Its very likely the sport could pay for its yearly cost after a few years. But it would take ALONG time to make back damn near 100 million dollars (startup cost+6 years operation)...........Could the sport make 12 million in 6 years? Maybe. Could it make 100 million HELL NO.


http://www.yardbarker.com/all_sports/articles/penn_state_receives_88_million_to_start_hockey_pro gram/3253091

Maybe if the scheels family and a few others take direct interest in DI hockey in fargo, otherwise its not gonna happen.

$14,261,707 guessing our athletic budget would have to be a minimum of 16-17 million for this to even be remotly feasible.. Id rather spend that money on football and basketball :hide:

[rustywallace]

Part of that 88 million is bieng used to build a new rink. I believe around 50 of it is. So around 40 million to start a hockey team as we already have a hockey arena thats more then capable right now.

Whats going to hurt a lot of these teams now is no gophers no scoonie. Those are almost guarentee sell outs. So a lot of these wcha teams are going to be losing revenue. Everyone is going to want UND who on there home schedule as they are the most hated right now and sell out any where they go thats in Minnesota and colorado.

[lakesbison]

whats this "WE" crap/

[BlueBisonRock]

whats this "WE" crap/

Someone heard you have a turd in your pocket.

[lakesbison]

rustywallace is hardly a bison fan.

[HerdBot]

Honestly, we are never gonna be competitive in baseball. After seeing all the UND shirts in the twin cities the past couple of weeks, i think it would be awesome to add hockey. its a northern sport and we are right next to canada and minnesota.

Could we play at scheels arena?

It would be about the same number of scholarships, but i don't know the title 9 rules, so maybe its not possible.

People may say hockey is only a niche sport in the uppermidwest and out east. they are correct, but we are located in the uppermidwest and it would make ndsu more popular in the tri-state area.

Ill get shit for saying this but your right. Baseball sucks up here because of weather and well never draw well or be competitive.

We live in a hockey state and there is no reason why we can't be competitive within 5-10 years. We live in a region where there is a ton of talent. We have a great facility just waiting for us. You can't ignore the success the Force have had. Heck, at times they outdraw our basketball team with a team of 17 year olds. The atmosphere at that place is electric and its below D1 Hockey.

Even MSUM recognizes the opportunity. We better jump on the opportunity.

If Bemidji can have a good Hockey team there is no reason we can't.

I would get season tickets in a heart beat.

[DjKyRo]

If Bemidji can have a good Hockey team there is no reason we can't.


Bemidji funds nothing but their hockey and don't have an extra 30+ football scholarships to fill. It would take decades for an NDSU hockey program to become at all relevant. Waste of time and money, IMO.

[ndsubison1]

Part of that 88 million is bieng used to build a new rink. I believe around 50 of it is. So around 40 million to start a hockey team as we already have a hockey arena thats more then capable right now.

Whats going to hurt a lot of these teams now is no gophers no scoonie. Those are almost guarentee sell outs. So a lot of these wcha teams are going to be losing revenue. Everyone is going to want UND who on there home schedule as they are the most hated right now and sell out any where they go thats in Minnesota and colorado.

did you forget youre not on whosports right now?

[mgbison]

But, at least there would be a chance to be relevant in hockey. We aren't gonna be relevant in men's basketball, ever.

[DjKyRo]

But, at least there would be a chance to be relevant in hockey. We aren't gonna be relevant in men's basketball, ever.

And I can just as easily say we'll never be relevant in hockey ever.

[lakesbison]

being RELEVANT in hockey is like being RELEVANT in a Mobile park.


its the midwests version of lacrosse..... except worse.


Fargo Force is a joke, no one goes to the games, i cant even give away free tickets. 1500 actual people a game, max.

[EndZoneQB]

But, at least there would be a chance to be relevant in hockey. We aren't gonna be relevant in men's basketball, ever.

I'm sure thats what Butler/VCU fans were saying...before they made the Final Four.

[mgbison]

I think I'd take my chances with being relevant in hockey over basketball. I guess we'll never know cause we won't ever add hockey.

Hockey is a niche sport only popular in the northern states, but we are a northern state. It may be small time, but go to scheels tomorrow and see if there is more Sioux or bison merchandise there. It's hard to tell and that's sad.

[NorthernBison]

But, at least there would be a chance to be relevant in hockey. We aren't gonna be relevant in men's basketball, ever.

Pretty high price to pay to be relevant in a sport where there are a little more than a dozen Division 1 schools participating.

There were less that 4,000 fans watching the Regional Hockey Final in Green Bay. College women's basketball sold out the arena to watch Baylor and A&M play in a Regional Final. Triple the fans. For Women's basketball.

All last week, during the Women's Basketball regional Finals and during the Women's Final Four, ESPN pimped the Frozen Four in St. Paul. Guess what though: THEY NEVER ONCE MENTIONED THE TEAMS PLAYING.

Try find College hockey scores on the ESPN website. Once you find them, you better write some directions down so you don't waste a half hour the next time you look. That's how much the sports world cares about college hockey.

You own comment earlier says it ALL. BEMIDJI STATE is RELEVANT in hockey.

[HerdBot]

Bemidji funds nothing but their hockey and don't have an extra 30+ football scholarships to fill. It would take decades for an NDSU hockey program to become at all relevant. Waste of time and money, IMO.

Teammakers for hockey. Additional fund raising. We could do it in 10 years. Would it be easy? No but we have the people to pull it off.
We will NEVER be competitive in baseball.

[mgbison]

No doubt basketball is on a different level with the final four. However, we will never be on that level. We have finished 7th the past 2 years in a crappy conference. I wanna say I'll see the bison in the sweet 16 sometime during my life, but its probably not gonna happen.

[344Johnson]

Hockey is like what lakes said, Lacrosse for the upper midwest, and out east its for the guys not smart enough to go to a lacrosse school haha.

Don't sell out. Its more fun being the way we are. Making the news for what we do in RELEVANT sports.

You know how fun it is when the basketball team or the football team gets a short 2-3 minute story in espn is. With hockey, MAYBE we could get one of those if we won the national championship.

Stick with what we know, football and basketball. Don't invite hockey and pretend its important to the college athletics world.

[HerdBot]

I'm sure thats what Butler/VCU fans were saying...before they made the Final Four.

I agree. You only need 1 great player in basketball or a core of jr or Srs. If I had to make bets, I think we win a game in the tournament sometime within the next 5 years.

But we can do that AND add butt hockey.

[HerdBot]

it would take decades to become a money maker like und in hockey. im guessing und is one of the few that actually makes money

St Cloud State Nebraska Omaha make a killing on hockey and lost money on football. Were in a unique position because we make a ton of money in football and when the BSA is done we will gave a money maker in basketball as well. Hockey is a guaranteed money maker if you can fund the athletic department. We have a great facility in the scheels center.

Why can't we do well with all 3 sports without cutting funding? We would have 3 great facilities and 3 great teams. That's a good D1 vision.

Remember how everyone thought we could never fund a D1 budget? I guess they were wrong. Let's at least have discussions. Who knows maybe there are big donors out there.

[onbison09]

St Cloud State Nebraska Omaha make a killing on hockey and lost money on football. Were in a unique position because we make a ton of money in football and when the BSA is done we will gave a money maker in basketball as well. Hockey is a guaranteed money maker if you can fund the athletic department. We have a great facility in the scheels center.

Why can't we do well with all 3 sports without cutting funding? We would have 3 great facilities and 3 great teams. That's a good D1 vision.

Remember how everyone thought we could never fund a D1 budget? I guess they were wrong. Let's at least have discussions. Who knows maybe there are big donors out there.
That's a big ass if. I'm a hockey fan too.

[HerdBot]

No doubt basketball is on a different level with the final four. However, we will never be on that level. We have finished 7th the past 2 years in a crappy conference. I wanna say I'll see the bison in the sweet 16 sometime during my life, but its probably not gonna happen.

2 words: Northern Iowa. Nobody can convince me that we are that far away. Basketball is changing. Pure teams are winning consistently now. Butler, VCU, George Mason, UNI... its the norm now. A team of 3-4 year starters is the new formula.

[HerdBot]

That's a big ass if. I'm a hockey fan too.

Your right but it was also a big ass IF we could fund a D1 program too. We all know how that worked out.

Then they said even if we can fund it we wont be competitive. Of course we've easily been the most successful Summit Team and won a conference championship in damn near every sport.

Heck they said we couldn't compete with FBS programs. They said we would never make the playoffs. We would nevver make the NCAA basketball tourney either.

They said we'd never raise money for a new arena. Now were only 2 million away from the shac.

I think we've proven we can do more with less.

[skolbrother]

Does anyone have paid attendance #'s for the Fargo Force and for Bison basketball. You can question the legitmacy of anyone's paid attendance but at some point it's the best you have to look at the situation reasonably.

These #'s are pertinent to this discussion. The Force is a team I truly have no loyalty to unlike being a graduate of North Dakota State University. However, alot of UND people who live in Fargo may not attend Bison hockey games. Although, I don't believe that would be the norm as the many who have become my friends as adults just enjoy hockey.

[NorthernBison]

St Cloud State Nebraska Omaha make a killing on hockey and lost money on football. Were in a unique position because we make a ton of money in football and when the BSA is done we will gave a money maker in basketball as well. Hockey is a guaranteed money maker if you can fund the athletic department. We have a great facility in the scheels center.

Why can't we do well with all 3 sports without cutting funding? We would have 3 great facilities and 3 great teams. That's a good D1 vision.

Remember how everyone thought we could never fund a D1 budget? I guess they were wrong. Let's at least have discussions. Who knows maybe there are big donors out there.

Last year was the FIRST year that UNO got into black ink on hockey. They are dropping football and wrestling. I hardly think they are a GOOD example to use if you are trying to suggest we emulate them.

I said before but people seem to not understand that DII schools like St. Cloud have an easier time funding hockey and staying Title IX compliant. That's because they have 27 LESS football scholarships. That's enough to make it workable.

[HerdBot]

Does anyone have paid attendance #'s for the Fargo Force and for Bison basketball. You can question the legitmacy of anyone's paid attendance but at some point it's the best you have to look at the situation reasonably.

These #'s are pertinent to this discussion. The Force is a team I truly have no loyalty to unlike being a graduate of North Dakota State University. However, alot of UND people who live in Fargo may not attend Bison hockey games. Although, I don't believe that would be the norm as the many who have become my friends as adults just enjoy hockey.

http://www.pointstreak.com/prostats/attendance.html?leagueid=49&seasonid=5967

I can't find our stats but the season high was 4200. Some games were 2200. Average was probably around 3k. That's with an average to below average team in a crap BSA.

I can tell you I've been to more Force and Redhawks games than Bison Basketball and Baseball. Of course I haven't missed a football game in 10 years. I will go see more basketball games when the new BSA is done.

I had no desire to see the Force but my family wanted to go so I went and I've actually become a fan of the team. I know some friends that skip football games to see the Force. They are also big club hockey fans.

Its crazyhow the force built a tradition in 3 years without a history or fan base. You see NDSU and UND stuff at the games. NDSU has a legit fan base and a little history with club hockey. The arena is a big part of it. Its a very well run organization and we could take some tips from them.

[skolbrother]

http://www.pointstreak.com/prostats/attendance.html?leagueid=49&seasonid=5967

I can't find our stats but the season high was 4200. Some games were 2200. Average was probably around 3k. That's with an average to below average team in a crap BSA.

I can tell you I've been to more Force and Redhawks games than Bison Basketball and Baseball. Of course I haven't missed a football game in 10 years. I will go see more basketball games when the new BSA is done.

I had no desire to see the Force but my family wanted to go so I went and I've actually become a fan of the team. I know some friends that skip football games to see the Force. They are also big club hockey fans.

Its crazyhow the force built a tradition in 3 years without a history or fan base. You see NDSU and UND stuff at the games. NDSU has a legit fan base and a little history with club hockey. The arena is a big part of it. Its a very well run organization and we could take some tips from them.

Great post!!!! ++++++ Rational!

You basically described my viewing tendency.

The Force, while getting off to a "strange" start have done a ton right.

You just became my bisonville bff.

[NorthernBison]

Forget the budget and Title IX issues and concentrate on just the question of attendance.

If you are a Force fan who says NDSU Hockey could draw, will you now suddenly increase your hockey attendance 100% and go to both?

If not, then either NDSU hockey will fail to gain a following or the Force will suffer.

Or maybe the fan suppport for NDSU hockey will come from the people who are now attending basketball games at the BSA. So basketball attendance will suffer and you're advocating hockey at the expense of basketball. (actually there is an excellent example of that in the region already)

Somebody has to lose in this whole discussion because neither the BSA or Scheels Arena sell out consistently.

BTW, have you seen the initial attendance figures for MLB? Teams are setting records for empty seats. This might be the future for plenty of sporting events.

[344Johnson]

Ok, how about this. If the bigtime NDSU hockey supporters can provide numbers than indicate that we can be both competitive and be financially well off.

I do not want us sacrificing anything from basketball or especially football. If we can pull out the funding somehow that'd be fantastic. Would we share the forces arena or what?

[roadwarrior]

Where would these NDSU hockey teams (mens and womens) practice?

[EndZoneQB]

Where would these NDSU hockey teams (mens and womens) practice?

The Coliseum!

[HerdBot]

Forget the budget and Title IX issues and concentrate on just the question of attendance.

If you are a Force fan who says NDSU Hockey could draw, will you now suddenly increase your hockey attendance 100% and go to both?

If not, then either NDSU hockey will fail to gain a following or the Force will suffer.

Or maybe the fan suppport for NDSU hockey will come from the people who are now attending basketball games at the BSA. So basketball attendance will suffer and you're advocating hockey at the expense of basketball. (actually there is an excellent example of that in the region already)

Somebody has to lose in this whole discussion because neither the BSA or Scheels Arena sell out consistently.

BTW, have you seen the initial attendance figures for MLB? Teams are setting records for empty seats. This might be the future for plenty of sporting events.

Since D1 Hockey is a much higher level of play we would hurt the Force. Guarantee it. But basketball is underperforming. There were years we averaged 8k fans as a D2 team so the potential is there. I think hockey is a different market. If it's done right we could sell out the BSA, Scheels Center, and Fargodome. The Force are doing well because they are the only option.

[HerdBot]

Where's the money gonna come from for that? NDSU can't even finish the SHAC financially.

Were only 2 million away and we would have been there hadn't we put in a new practice field, video boards, and built new Bison offices. The money is there we can start focusing on it once the shac is done.

The best part is we don't need a hockey facility. Plus the Scheels center is adding practice facilities.

[Facts]

Since D1 Hockey is a much higher level of play we would hurt the Force. Guarantee it. But basketball is underperforming. There were years we averaged 8k fans as a D2 team so the potential is there. I think hockey is a different market. If it's done right we could sell out the BSA, Scheels Center, and Fargodome. The Force are doing well because they are the only option.

That's not entirely objective...
I'll way in on all this later, I'm sure BV can't wait.

[lakesbison]

like i said, I cant GIVE AWAY 4 force tickets at center ice . ive had them 4 times. no one even wanted them.
last game i was at there, they said 3,400, and I laughed, no way over 2000/game.

ndsu basketball says 3400, i see 3400, thats with a 7th place team in a dump of an arena.

put NDSU basketball in the UPCENTER with a court and watch that fill 5000+, with beer sales, try sold out!

[NorthernBison]

Just a quick comment. No way did we ever average anything close to 8,000 for BB in DII. Must have been the same people counting as those who figured out the Dacotah Field attendance. I think they counted feet and forgot to divide by 2.

[scbison91]

How big is lacrosse up in Midwest? I think I heard it is starting to become big in Minnesota, is that correct? I noticed that NDSU has a club team( ranked #18 MCLA division 2) that is doing well so if this sports take off in the next few years up North, could this become a varsity sport in next 10-15 years? One nice thing about lacrosse it is played on football field and the dome could be utilized just like Syracuse uses Carrier dome for lacrosse...


For many years, lacrosse was only big in North Carolina but in just the last couple years it has really taken off in most southern states and is becoming very popular very fast...

[2910Bison]

Great!!! First soccer and now lacrosse.

[scbison91]

Lacrosse is getting big and is going overrtake most sports in popularity except for football and basketball in the next few years.. Our Rec department had about 150 kids last year signed up last year for lacrosse, ages 8-14 this year over 500 signed up. They plan to extend leagues for rec department to 18 year old as over 130 kids went out for the high school team

Just asking to see if it has hit the uppermidwest like the rest of the country and if potentially it could become a varsity sport.

[HerdBot]

Where would these NDSU hockey teams (mens and womens) practice?

They are adding 3 sheets of ice to the Scheels center.

[Facts]

Disclaimer: I love hockey and always will... I think it's one of the best sports in the world, and I truly enjoyed playing, coaching, reffing, ect.

The problem with hockey is it's a niche sport, and while it's niche is near ND (and you can very easily argue that ND is not a hockey state despite UND and it's bandwagon following) it doesn't mean hockey is a strategically correct move for NDSU. Arguments can also be made that while hockey is the golden calf at UND, it's also part of the millstone (*nickname*) around the mainstream sports' neck.

The NCAA is high on MBB and NDSU has decided to hitch it's pony to that ride, and rightly so. Title IX, eggs in the mainstream sports basket, and common sense have dictated NDSU move to not add hockey, and those will continue to weigh heavily on that decision in the future. The bottom line is, while any Hockey program in this area could be successful in a short time (location, location, location) what would NDSU really gain from that success? Nobody outside of hockey fans in hockey regions follow hockey, so adding the sport does nothing for NDSU in a long term scheme.

My 2 cents...

[roadwarrior]

Were only 2 million away and we would have been there hadn't we put in a new practice field, video boards, and built new Bison offices. The money is there we can start focusing on it once the shac is done.

The best part is we don't need a hockey facility. Plus the Scheels center is adding practice facilities.

We are 2 million away from the Indoor Track, not the SHAC.

When are those other rinks being added to the Scheels Arena?

The Coliseum ice is smaller than what college teams play on. They wouldn't want to practice there.

Bison basketball is not going to the Scheels Arena ever.

Yes, those 8000 fans back in the 80s for basketball were counted by the same guy that had 19,000 at Dacotah Field.

[NorthernBison]

They are adding 3 sheets of ice to the Scheels center.

I thought they were adding four. They indicated construction would begin when they raised $6 million in private donations. Has that been accomplished yet?

If they aren't there yet, you can mark me down as a "I'll believe it when I see it person." The initial "cluster" this whole thing was leaves me with zero confidence.

The driving force for the extra sheets of ice was a tremendous shortage faced by existing programs. I'm not sure there is necessarily prime ice time available even if this extra ice is built.

[HerdBot]

We are 2 million away from the Indoor Track, not the SHAC.

When are those other rinks being added to the Scheels Arena?

The Coliseum ice is smaller than what college teams play on. They wouldn't want to practice there.

Bison basketball is not going to the Scheels Arena ever.

Yes, those 8000 fans back in the 80s for basketball were counted by the same guy that had 19,000 at Dacotah Field.

How much left until we get the shac?

[roadwarrior]

How much left until we get the shac?

Good question. But it is more than the "less than $2 million" that Erv said was needed to start the indoor track facility.

[344Johnson]

Just a quick comment. No way did we ever average anything close to 8,000 for BB in DII. Must have been the same people counting as those who figured out the Dacotah Field attendance. I think they counted feet and forgot to divide by 2.

LOL (ten char)

[Notorious]

Drop this...

http://64.34.162.133/uploads2/11981_2_9_2008_10_43_00_PM_-_oh_shit-759720.jpg

[bisonpride]

Lacrosse is getting big and is going overrtake most sports in popularity except for football and basketball in the next few years.. Our Rec department had about 150 kids last year signed up last year for lacrosse, ages 8-14 this year over 500 signed up. They plan to extend leagues for rec department to 18 year old as over 130 kids went out for the high school team

Just asking to see if it has hit the uppermidwest like the rest of the country and if potentially it could become a varsity sport.

That would be a resounding no! I dont think there is even a HS club team for boys or girls in ND. I know there is a small amount of youth players in town but it is VERY small. Minnesota has slightly more interest but it would be a horrible idea to add lacrosse.

[bisonpride]

They are adding 3 sheets of ice to the Scheels center.

HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!! They are no where close to ever doing that. Pipe dream right now. They dont even have enough money to finish their parking lot. They got under $1 Mil from Scheels to name the arena. NDSU got $5 Mil from Scheels. They got under $1 Mil cuz they were desperate for money and took what they would give them.

[bisonpride]

Disclaimer: I love hockey and always will... I think it's one of the best sports in the world, and I truly enjoyed playing, coaching, reffing, ect.

The problem with hockey is it's a niche sport, and while it's niche is near ND (and you can very easily argue that ND is not a hockey state despite UND and it's bandwagon following) it doesn't mean hockey is a strategically correct move for NDSU. Arguments can also be made that while hockey is the golden calf at UND, it's also part of the millstone (*nickname*) around the mainstream sports' neck.

The NCAA is high on MBB and NDSU has decided to hitch it's pony to that ride, and rightly so. Title IX, eggs in the mainstream sports basket, and common sense have dictated NDSU move to not add hockey, and those will continue to weigh heavily on that decision in the future. The bottom line is, while any Hockey program in this area could be successful in a short time (location, location, location) what would NDSU really gain from that success? Nobody outside of hockey fans in hockey regions follow hockey, so adding the sport does nothing for NDSU in a long term scheme.

My 2 cents...

Great post! Agree completely including the part about myself enjoying hockey. However all it will do is be a major drag on the other sports right now. The requirement of adding womens hockey is the deal breaker period! Those small Minnesota schools make it work because hockey IS THE ONLY BIG SHOW in town. Its the only sport they get to compete against the Gophers on a regular basis if at all so it becomes a big deal. For us it is not as big a deal anymore after beating them in I think every sport but mens basketball and volleyball. They dont get that opportunity so they throw all their chips in the emotional basket when it comes to hockey.

[bisonpride]

St Cloud State Nebraska Omaha make a killing on hockey and lost money on football. Were in a unique position because we make a ton of money in football and when the BSA is done we will gave a money maker in basketball as well. Hockey is a guaranteed money maker if you can fund the athletic department. We have a great facility in the scheels center.

Why can't we do well with all 3 sports without cutting funding? We would have 3 great facilities and 3 great teams. That's a good D1 vision.

Remember how everyone thought we could never fund a D1 budget? I guess they were wrong. Let's at least have discussions. Who knows maybe there are big donors out there.

Will one of them write the check for Dean Blais's $250,000 contract because that is what it will take to become even close to a competitive team. As soon as Dean Blais leaves UNO their program will go in the crapper. Thats only $50,000 more then Bohl. Everyone needs to keep in mind it is not a $3 million addition. Its $6 Million YEARLY because women's hockey will require the same amount like it or not.

[bisonpride]

But, at least there would be a chance to be relevant in hockey. We aren't gonna be relevant in men's basketball, ever.

College hockey isnt even relevant to the rest of the country outside of Minnesota, Michigan, Massachusetts and a couple other isolated areas like Denver.

We could be relevant with basketball in a new arena in actually a relevant sport to the rest of the country.

[bisonpride]

I enjoy hockey a lot and would love to shove a hockey victory down the UND fans throat but it would kill everything else we have going for us now on a gamble in a money draining regional sport.

Why has softball done so well despite our climate? Because they have put the money into the program to allow Mueller to get the players he needs to win (ie. California).

Baseball is not allowed the same opportunity. If baseball was funded for recruiting like softball they would be able to get some difference maker players from Cali and Texas and would be challenging ORU for a conference title. They have a good core but are killed by arm injuries right now and when you are not fully funded and have your #1 starting pitcher out you have a good chunk of your scholarship money sitting on the bench. When they get funded at the top of the league then their can be some complaints but they didn't even have a full time HEAD COACH until coach Brown because they wouldn't fund the position. Its only the 4th year of a full time assistant coach I believe and the 1st year of a 2nd full time assistant coach. We are just finally funding one of our programs to at least a low respectable conference level and now want to add 6 million to our budget. If we were actually funding all of our programs fully right now I would say bring it on but we are severely lacking in several areas.

[abc123]

Pretty high price to pay to be relevant in a sport where there are a little more than a dozen Division 1 schools participating.

There were less that 4,000 fans watching the Regional Hockey Final in Green Bay. College women's basketball sold out the arena to watch Baylor and A&M play in a Regional Final. Triple the fans. For Women's basketball.

All last week, during the Women's Basketball regional Finals and during the Women's Final Four, ESPN pimped the Frozen Four in St. Paul. Guess what though: THEY NEVER ONCE MENTIONED THE TEAMS PLAYING.

Try find College hockey scores on the ESPN website. Once you find them, you better write some directions down so you don't waste a half hour the next time you look. That's how much the sports world cares about college hockey.

You own comment earlier says it ALL. BEMIDJI STATE is RELEVANT in hockey.

While not all the school's that play hockey are D-1 in more than just hockey, its somewhere around 37, just a few more than a dozen. It is a weak enough number without having to make something up.

And while it is women's basketball and that attendance is impressive, I don't think that 11,500 sells out the American Airline Center where the game was played (home of the Dallas Mavericks, it seats 21,000+). You also fail to mention that Baylor's campus is under 100 miles away and Texas A&M's campus is 200 miles away. A little closer than the 600 and 1100 miles away that UND and Denver were from Green Bay.

[lakesbison]

abc that makes zero sense, you got hit by a 24 year old canadian too many times.


If baseball was funded for recruiting like softball they would be able to get some difference maker players from Cali and Texas and would be challenging ORU for a conference title

^^^^^ because of LYNN DORN>?????????????????



there's about 10,000 hockey fans in minneapolis, 10,000 in ann arbor, 10,000 in madison. 7500 in stink forks. they are the same fans that goto every single game every week. anyone outside of these people dont give a fart crap about hockey and the rest of USA certainly doesnt care.

[Twentysix]

That would be a resounding no! I dont think there is even a HS club team for boys or girls in ND. I know there is a small amount of youth players in town but it is VERY small. Minnesota has slightly more interest but it would be a horrible idea to add lacrosse.

NDSU has a club lacrosse team. Im not advocating a "varsity" team or whatever the correct term is.

[NorthernBison]

While not all the school's that play hockey are D-1 in more than just hockey, its somewhere around 37, just a few more than a dozen. It is a weak enough number without having to make something up.

And while it is women's basketball and that attendance is impressive, I don't think that 11,500 sells out the American Airline Center where the game was played (home of the Dallas Mavericks, it seats 21,000+). You also fail to mention that Baylor's campus is under 100 miles away and Texas A&M's campus is 200 miles away. A little closer than the 600 and 1100 miles away that UND and Denver were from Green Bay.

My bad on the Division 1 schools. I was actually referring to BCS type schools. You know, the BIG BOYS that fools like Virg Foss like to brag about. The ones that formed their own conference to stop slumming with the LITTLE GUYS.

And yeah, I shouldn't have said sold out about the Women's regional. Still they had 3 TIMES the attendance for a WOMEN'S BASKETBALL game as for the hockey regional final. I thought hockey was SO POPULAR and UND travels SO WELL? Maybe UND does but NOBODY ELSE DOES apparently.

Seriously, 3,900 plus for a game that decides a trip to the Frozen Four?

BEMIDJI STATE is a relevant hockey school. The facts speak for themselves.

We don't need hockey at NDSU. We have a club hockey team. It's fine if UND wants to be Division 1 in hockey and keep their club teams in football and basketball. I'm actually in favor of that.

[Buthockey]

While not all the school's that play hockey are D-1 in more than just hockey, its somewhere around 37, just a few more than a dozen. It is a weak enough number without having to make something up.

And while it is women's basketball and that attendance is impressive, I don't think that 11,500 sells out the American Airline Center where the game was played (home of the Dallas Mavericks, it seats 21,000+). You also fail to mention that Baylor's campus is under 100 miles away and Texas A&M's campus is 200 miles away. A little closer than the 600 and 1100 miles away that UND and Denver were from Green Bay.

Mine Canadien friend! You've really got their breezers in a bunch! Why does the frozen four wait two weeks to commence, eh?

[HerdBot]

Will one of them write the check for Dean Blais's $250,000 contract because that is what it will take to become even close to a competitive team. As soon as Dean Blais leaves UNO their program will go in the crapper. Thats only $50,000 more then Bohl. Everyone needs to keep in mind it is not a $3 million addition. Its $6 Million YEARLY because women's hockey will require the same amount like it or not.

Hockey will survive without Dean Blais. There are a ton of young coaches who would kill for the opportunity . Money helps but its not a cure all.

[344Johnson]

Mine Canadien friend! You've really got their breezers in a bunch! Why does the frozen four wait two weeks to commence, eh?

I doon't see what these fellers from the States are so upset aboot! Everybody knows that Canadian sports like Hockey and Lacrosse are the way to go!

but on a serious note, my friends at UND were insisting that they don't wait two weeks because of the FINAL FOUR but because the Frozen Four is soo intense that they need two weeks to get physically and mentally ready. LOL

[GRAFTONBISON]

I doon't see what these fellers from the States are so upset aboot! Everybody knows that Canadian sports like Hockey and Lacrosse are the way to go!

but on a serious note, my friends at UND were insisting that they don't wait two weeks because of the FINAL FOUR but because the Frozen Four is soo intense that they need two weeks to get physically and mentally ready. LOL


:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :facepalm:

[lakesbison]

Michigans president isn't even goin to frozen four......shows you how REAL schools view this....

ESPN MOBILE........HAHA

Scores by Sport
NBA
MLB
NCAA Men's Basketball
NFL
Golf
NHL
NCAA Women's Basketball
NCAA Football
Soccer
Tennis
NCAA Sports
Autos
WNBA

[HerdBot]

Michigans president isn't even goin to frozen four......shows you how REAL schools view this....

ESPN MOBILE........HAHA

Scores by Sport
NBA
MLB
NCAA Men's Basketball
NFL
Golf
NHL
NCAA Women's Basketball
NCAA Football
Soccer
Tennis
NCAA Sports
Autos
WNBA

I agree its not relevant outside the midwest. But its huge here and would raise our profile. Our main recruiting area is midwest. Minnesota and Wisconsin know UND. We get a lot of kids from there.

If it hurts our other sports, mainly football and basketball, im against it. If we can raise the money and dominate other sports im 100% in support of it.

[344Johnson]

Michigans president isn't even goin to frozen four......shows you how REAL schools view this....

ESPN MOBILE........HAHA

Scores by Sport
NBA
MLB
NCAA Men's Basketball
NFL
Golf
NHL
NCAA Women's Basketball
NCAA Football
Soccer
Tennis
NCAA Sports
Autos
WNBA


WAIT???? No NCAA hockey? Obviously espn is a second rate service for not having an entire page devoted to the WCHA, even UND more specifically on espn.com. What a joke! Fox Sports Canada is so much more reliable when it comes to sports!

Hold on a second? ok.....uh huh,no! You are so wrong! hockey is clearly the biggest sport ever! yeah! Everyone can name more UND hockey players and Minnesota Wild players than they can name TEAMS in any other sport! Yeah! You Bisonvillers are so crazy! To think that hockey is considered irrelevant in American society!?!? Oh goodness, just thinking aboot that gets my breezers in a bunch! That basketball and football business is never going to catch on!

[Facts]

I agree its not relevant outside the midwest. But its huge here and would raise our profile. Our main recruiting area is midwest. Minnesota and Wisconsin know UND. We get a lot of kids from there.

If it hurts our other sports, mainly football and basketball, im against it. If we can raise the money and dominate other sports im 100% in support of it.

With who Gabe? Who would it "raise our profile" with? Answer that and you've answered why it really doesn't matter to add the sport.

[HerdBot]

With who Gabe? Who would it "raise our profile" with? Answer that and you've answered why it really doesn't matter to add the sport.

We live in the midwest, right? We recruit athletes and students in the midwest, right? The WCHA and Big Ten (in future) get a lot of press in the midwest. The Sioux are on TV more than anybody. We would improve exposure in the midwest. How would this not increase our profile?

[mgbison]

i agree with ya gabe, it would raise our profile in the midwest and thats all that matters. People in other parts of the country aren't gonna give a rip about ndsu or follow ndsu no matter what.

The main reason people bitch and complain about hockey is because und has it and they have a successful program. You know damn well that if the situation was reversed and we had a good hockey team that we would have bison fans on ss.com rubbing it in nonstop. We try to rip and make fun of their hockey program, but the only program that is laughable is our men's bball program. How much ndsu men's basketball clothing do you see compared to sioux hockey gear. Its not even close. Hopefully that changes in the next 5 to 10 years.

With that being said, great job michigan!

[NorthernBison]

i agree with ya gabe, it would raise our profile in the midwest and thats all that matters. People in other parts of the country aren't gonna give a rip about ndsu or follow ndsu no matter what.

The main reason people bitch and complain about hockey is because und has it and they have a successful program. You know damn well that if the situation was reversed and we had a good hockey team that we would have bison fans on ss.com rubbing it in nonstop. We try to rip and make fun of their hockey program, but the only program that is laughable is our men's bball program. How much ndsu men's basketball clothing do you see compared to sioux hockey gear. Its not even close. Hopefully that changes in the next 5 to 10 years.

With that being said, great job michigan!

Are you serious?

The reason we don't have hockey is NOT because of UND. It is primarily a budget and facilities issue. I don't see how the heck you can still fail to understand that.

Then you dare to call our basketball program laughable and hold up UND hockey as a shining example of what is great? If that's how you really feel, buy a Sioux hockey jersey and start hanging out with them. If I wasn't in a good mood from last night, the neg rep would be flying full force.

[JSUBison]

If baseball gets dropped, it won't be used to fund hockey. It will go to football scholarships for a move up to FBS. But I'm not in favor of any of that talk right now.

Also, not wanting hockey at NDSU has nothing to do with UND for me. I don't like hockey, never played it, never watched a full game. I don't even know how to skate. It is boring to me. If NDSU were to add hockey, I won't all of a sudden be a hockey fan. I'll pay it as much attention as I do wrestling or track and field.

[silkamilkamonico]

If NDSU ever got hockey, I would have to start putting stipulations on what I give to the athletic program, and I don't want to have to do that.

[bisonballs33]

I'm totally guessing but hockey would be a lot more expensive than baseball as far as equipment etc but maybe I'm totally wrong.

Baseball does have an insane travel budget considering they play 3/4 of the season on the road and spend 10 days in the southern states.

[bisonballs33]

UND can have butthockey...We'll succeed at everything else.

Basketball and Football is hardly anything else. And we will NEVER compete on a national level in basketball or the real D1 foorball

[DjKyRo]

Basketball and Football is hardly anything else. And we will NEVER compete on a national level in basketball or the real D1 foorball

If by "real D-I football" you mean FBS, then I'll bet Boise State, Utah, TCU, and Cincinatti fans have been told the same thing in the past. For basketball, look no further than VCU, George Mason, Saint Mary's, Gonzaga, Butler, or a dozen other schools just in the last five years.

[gopherluv]

I'm totally guessing but hockey would be a lot more expensive than baseball as far as equipment etc but maybe I'm totally wrong.

Hockey much more expensive. But unlike baseball, it would turn a profit. You already have the arena and a fan base. As long as NDSU doesn't have to add women's hockey, its a lock to be a success.

[gopherluv]

If baseball gets dropped, it won't be used to fund hockey. It will go to football scholarships for a move up to FBS. But I'm not in favor of any of that talk right now.


Never happen....nor should it.

[344Johnson]

My problem with hockey I shall admit does stem from UND. They have a great HOCKEY program. Which is great for them. I really can enjoy watching hockey from time to time, and thats without understanding half the rules. I really dislike how they think they have SOOO many fans.

As for hockey, I'd rather just pump money into basketball in football. Hockey I couldnt get excited about beating top ten teams. Its tough to get excited when there are what? Like 65 teams?? Beating a top ten in basketball was AWESOME when they beat marquette and wisconsin.

Football, will we ever be a Boise or TCU? I'm going to take a wild guess and say no. But we get to watch a hell of a show with a great atmosphere in the Dome. According to the New York Times, out of the major hockey schools, UND has one of the most boring atmospheres compared to Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan, Yale, etc.

Sorry for digressing into hockey vs. football/basketball, I don't want hockey because I don't want to get the whole hockey school thing where it takes schollies and money away from football and basketball. I thoroughly enjoy watching college hockey, but I don't think it'd be worth our time.

If we could guarantee it'd make money and not hurt football/basketball, sure lets go for it! But like I said, I want a GUARANTEE.

[Facts]

We live in the midwest, right? We recruit athletes and students in the midwest, right? The WCHA and Big Ten (in future) get a lot of press in the midwest. The Sioux are on TV more than anybody. We would improve exposure in the midwest. How would this not increase our profile?

The "who" I was referring to are the niche group of hockey followers. They are only people who would give a rip about hockey in the first place... people like: ME. But... I'm in the minority, and I don't try to blow hockey up to be this amazing world dominating sport because it's not.

HERE'S THE POINT: Nobody outside of hockey followers cares about hockey, so it really doesn't "raise our profile" with anyone of consequence.

[Facts]

i agree with ya gabe, it would raise our profile in the midwest and thats all that matters. People in other parts of the country aren't gonna give a rip about ndsu or follow ndsu no matter what.

The main reason people bitch and complain about hockey is because und has it and they have a successful program. You know damn well that if the situation was reversed and we had a good hockey team that we would have bison fans on ss.com rubbing it in nonstop. We try to rip and make fun of their hockey program, but the only program that is laughable is our men's bball program. How much ndsu men's basketball clothing do you see compared to sioux hockey gear. Its not even close. Hopefully that changes in the next 5 to 10 years.

With that being said, great job michigan!

Proposterous statement tourney 2012 candidate...

[NDSUstudent]

Adding men's hockey is a good idea, it is a sport that people would be interested in watching and it could potentially turn a profit. There is no denying that, the problem is where do we get the money to start it up? What happens in regards to Title IX?

If we added men's hockey, we would have to add a women's sport. That team wouldn't make money, in fact it would likely be a black hole(especially if we add women's hockey). Adding hockey would also require some significant start up costs.

So all you hockey backers, you want the sport well you gotta show me the money. I'm talking $15-20 million to get the ball rolling because I don't want one single current sport to be affected by adding a potential hockey burden. I am not interested in the sacrificing any sport in the name of butthockey.

I don't see that kind of money being put together unless there is some big money donor that wants it to happen like the guy at Penn State that I don't know about. But if it can be done you have my support.

[TheBisonator]

Proposterous statement tourney 2012 candidate...

I agree. The 2011 mens team made improvements over the 2010 team (who was coincidentally the worst Bison basketball team I ever watched in my life, but that's the consequence for the 2004-2009 Fab-5 plan). The basketball team is moving in the right direction. Once the SHAC is built, the program will really be going places we never thought they would go. The only real problem with the basketball team is not recruiting or coaching, it's scheduling. When 1/7th of your home schedule is against the bottom-of-the-barrel teams of the DAC, fans don't want to see that.

Then again, going back to the hockey discussion, who's going to come to Fargo to play a Bison hockey team during the non-con schedule (assuming we can get into the WCHA)?? Schools like Clarkson, Union, Rensellaer, Alaska-Fairbanks, Alabama-Huntsville... Those schools will most likely be the norm.

But even the non-DI "DI" hockey schools support their hockey programs WAY more than Mayville and Valley City support their basketball programs.

[JMB]

Here is my problem with the proposal of dropping baseball and adding hockey. In the greater sense of being an institution of the State of North Dakota, baseball is a much more assessable sport to the youth of ND. With the Legion and Babe Ruth programs, there are a lot of kids playing baseball. Youth involvement in hockey is much, much more limited. Not only due to the lack of quality rink's but it is also a very expensive sport to be involved in.

I have my own personal opinions on hockey as a sport, but I will save them for another day.

[HerdBot]

Adding men's hockey is a good idea, it is a sport that people would be interested in watching and it could potentially turn a profit. There is no denying that, the problem is where do we get the money to start it up? What happens in regards to Title IX?

If we added men's hockey, we would have to add a women's sport. That team wouldn't make money, in fact it would likely be a black hole(especially if we add women's hockey). Adding hockey would also require some significant start up costs.

So all you hockey backers, you want the sport well you gotta show me the money. I'm talking $15-20 million to get the ball rolling because I don't want one single current sport to be affected by adding a potential hockey burden. I am not interested in the sacrificing any sport in the name of butthockey.

I don't see that kind of money being put together unless there is some big money donor that wants it to happen like the guy at Penn State that I don't know about. But if it can be done you have my support.

I think its worth exploring. If the money is there than yes. If its not? No. But let's get the SHAC done first. Like I said... it can't hurt football and basketball.

[HerdBot]

Minnesota Duluth can fund a team good enough to win a D2 National Championships in Football and a D1 Hockey Championship in the same year.. I'm tellin ya we can pull this off while strengthening our basketball team.

Maybe the state can give us more money! :)

[bisonpride]

Minnesota Duluth can fund a team good enough to win a D2 National Championships in Football and a D1 Hockey Championship in the same year.. I'm tellin ya we can pull this off while strengthening our basketball team.

Maybe the state can give us more money! :)

D2 football team with 28 scholarships and not 60+ and taking advantage of NDSU and UND not raiding MN kids like they used to for that level of play.

Traditionally strong Hockey program that has been around for over 30+ years and amazingly had never won a national title til this week.

Huge difference in the scenarios of their programs and us adding hockey. Our football team offers close to around $400,000 more in scholarship money and likely has a recruiting budget 3 times the size of UMD. Your trying to compare regional and national and the $$$ don't add up.

How long are fans willing to wait for a winner until everyone is ready to dismantle the hockey program? Unless you fork over $250,000-$300,000 for Dean Blais you will not have an immediate winner.

Besides that WOMENS HOCKEY WILL BE REQUIRED!!!!!!!!!!! Their is absolutely NO way around it!

[coldspot]

D2 football team with 28 scholarships and not 60+ and taking advantage of NDSU and UND not raiding MN kids like they used to for that level of play.

Traditionally strong Hockey program that has been around for over 30+ years and amazingly had never won a national title til this week.

Huge difference in the scenarios of their programs and us adding hockey. Our football team offers close to around $400,000 more in scholarship money and likely has a recruiting budget 3 times the size of UMD. Your trying to compare regional and national and the $$$ don't add up.

How long are fans willing to wait for a winner until everyone is ready to dismantle the hockey program? Unless you fork over $250,000-$300,000 for Dean Blais you will not have an immediate winner.

Besides that WOMENS HOCKEY WILL BE REQUIRED!!!!!!!!!!! Their is absolutely NO way around it!

but on SS.com they said we could add women's equestrian and that would off set the title IX compliance :facepalm:

let's add a sport that is going to cost us way too much and could be dead in the next 15 years. :facepalm:

things to be completed before even considering adding hockey (no particular order):
1. basketball facility
2. indoor practice facility for baseball/softball/football/soccer
3. increase funding to baseball program
4. HD camera capabilities in the Fargodome
5. better media coverage for entire athletic program

[HerdBot]

D2 football team with 28 scholarships and not 60+ and taking advantage of NDSU and UND not raiding MN kids like they used to for that level of play.

Traditionally strong Hockey program that has been around for over 30+ years and amazingly had never won a national title til this week.

Huge difference in the scenarios of their programs and us adding hockey. Our football team offers close to around $400,000 more in scholarship money and likely has a recruiting budget 3 times the size of UMD. Your trying to compare regional and national and the $$$ don't add up.

How long are fans willing to wait for a winner until everyone is ready to dismantle the hockey program? Unless you fork over $250,000-$300,000 for Dean Blais you will not have an immediate winner.

Besides that WOMENS HOCKEY WILL BE REQUIRED!!!!!!!!!!! Their is absolutely NO way around it!

They have absolutely benefitted from NDSU/UND/SDSU/USD leaving D2. Shows how watered down it is. But it's stilll a good accomplishment to win the D2 Championship. Heck, NAIA teams beat UND now!

Listening to Sid and Dave this morning, they said a big part of the Championship was the new hockey arena that got built this year. It's nice but not huge. Capacity just over 6700 fans.

I think it's an added bonus that we already have the Scheels Center which is smaller but a great facility. It is certainly no Ralph but it's still as nice or nicer than many of the arenas and it can be ugraded as well. If you compare it to CHA teams, it's bigger than most. Smaller than WCHA arenas.

We don't need a big name coach. There are so few teams out there there are not many opportunities being given to coaches. However if we end up selling out every game and raising donations, we may have enough money to pay a coach like that.

We have to explore the idea. I think it's idiotic to just flat out say "no we dont' have the money and there is no chance of it working." How about we actually research it first. Who knows? There could be a ton of potential donors out there. Of course they are not going to show up unless we ask. Moorhead State even claimed to have had enough donors to pull it off.

Finish the SHAC. Research it.

[DjKyRo]

We have to explore the idea.

No, we don't. Something tells me the university isn't about to spend the money necessary to research it unless they're certain it's going to work. Exploring it is a waste of time if one is unsure and committing to spend the $40 million + is something they'd better be damn sure of. If that certainty isn't there, it doesn't make sense to do anything. We've gotten along for the past 110+ years without a hockey program, why is the need so dire now?

[TheBisonator]

If we're not going to be playing at least 3-4 series (9-12 games) a year against some of the Big Ten schools and Notre Dame, I personally don't think it's worth it. I'm honestly not interested in a season schedule loaded with Denver, Colorado College, Bemidji, UND, St. Cloud, Mankato, UND, Anchorage, UND, Michigan Tech, Lake Superior State, UND, Clarkson, Union, UND and UND.

And if anyone thinks it's going to be easy for UND to continue getting games with Minnesota/Wisconsin once BT hockey starts, and therefore it would be easier for us to, you're truly mistaken. UND will be light years ahead of us to begin with, and they may be extremely light on the BCS hockey schools in their hockey schedule once the Big Ten starts up play. I can see UND still travelling to the Goofs or Badgers once a year, but I honestly don't see UND hosting a game against Minn. or Wisc. ever again once BT hockey starts up. What's NDSU's schedule gonna look like when we're not even close to the same established level at UND?? If you're reading this thread thinking the Goofs or Badgers are gonna come to Scheels Arena (or the Ralph, for that matter - Yeah, I said it, Sioux fans, deal with it) 5-10 years from now, you're sorely mistaken.

I'm sorry, but if we're not playing a BT school or Notre Dame or BC at least once a month in our schedule, I say it's not worth it.

I would rather have football move to FBS 1,000 times out of 1,000.

[onbison09]

If we're not going to be playing at least 3-4 series (9-12 games) a year against some of the Big Ten schools and Notre Dame, I personally don't think it's worth it. I'm honestly not interested in a season schedule loaded with Denver, Colorado College, Bemidji, UND, St. Cloud, Mankato, UND, Anchorage, UND, Michigan Tech, Lake Superior State, UND, Clarkson, Union, UND and UND.

And if anyone thinks it's going to be easy for UND to continue getting games with Minnesota/Wisconsin once BT hockey starts, and therefore it would be easier for us to, you're truly mistaken. UND will be light years ahead of us to begin with, and they may be extremely light on the BCS hockey schools in their hockey schedule once the Big Ten starts up play. I can see UND still travelling to the Goofs or Badgers once a year, but I honestly don't see UND hosting a game against Minn. or Wisc. ever again once BT hockey starts up. What's NDSU's schedule gonna look like when we're not even close to the same established level at UND?? If you're reading this thread thinking the Goofs or Badgers are gonna come to Scheels Arena (or the Ralph, for that matter - Yeah, I said it, Sioux fans, deal with it) 5-10 years from now, you're sorely mistaken.

I'm sorry, but if we're not playing a BT school or Notre Dame or BC at least once a month in our schedule, I say it's not worth it.

I would rather have football move to FBS 1,000 times out of 1,000.

Meh. I wouldn't agree with the ever statement.

[HerdBot]

No, we don't. Something tells me the university isn't about to spend the money necessary to research it unless they're certain it's going to work. Exploring it is a waste of time if one is unsure and committing to spend the $40 million + is something they'd better be damn sure of. If that certainty isn't there, it doesn't make sense to do anything. We've gotten along for the past 110+ years without a hockey program, why is the need so dire now?

We also went 100 years without D1 athletics. Why go D1? They did explore the D1 transition while others were unsure it would work. You have to check and see if the support is there first.

[lakesbison]

Oh God Shut Up. This Isn't Happening. Espn Hockey Overnight Rating. .8

[344Johnson]

Meh. I wouldn't agree with the ever statement.

Yeah, from what I read anyways, it sounded like Big Ten hockey doesn't have enough teams to stay away from UND and such. It sounded like the WCHA and BT were going to let rivals cross-conference each other and have series twice a year.

[ndsubison1]

but on SS.com they said we could add women's equestrian and that would off set the title IX compliance :facepalm:

let's add a sport that is going to cost us way too much and could be dead in the next 15 years. :facepalm:

things to be completed before even considering adding hockey (no particular order):
1. basketball facility
2. indoor practice facility for baseball/softball/football/soccer
3. increase funding to baseball program
4. HD camera capabilities in the Fargodome
5. better media coverage for entire athletic program
6. Build a Sonic on campus

[gobison.gsb]

This is a quote I found on ss.com regarding Williston State adding club hockey.

"As far as NDSU hockey, their fans and administration will never go for it because they know they could never get to UND's level. That's fine by me. But what they fail to see is that hockey gives UND major inroads to the Fargo-Moorhead market, even among non-UND alumni. The school-age kids there instantly recognize that UND hockey is really the only top level program around, and want to be part of that. By converting the kids to being Sioux hockey fans, it also opens the door for them to be Sioux fans in everything else. NDSU wouldn't even need to start women's hockey to compensate for Title IX, as they can just move their women's equestrian program to varsity status. With Scheel's Arena, the business potential is better than NDSU admins ever admit, but they have too many problems raising money for basic DI facility needs."

Is this true? I now that NDSU needs to work on their presence in the FM area, but I can't help but wonder if the success of their hockey translates to an increase in their 'supposed' fans for other sports. Don't tell me that anyone who has been out and around Fargo or been to a Force game doesn't see more UND stuff around then we all would like.

Maybe I am just being paranoid, and I am not in favor of adding hockey any time soon, but I just don't want to see Fargo-Moorhead being invaded and claiming more UND 'fans' who have choose all Sioux sports (whatever else they play up there...summer hockey? fall hockey? women's hockey?) over possibly becoming Bison fans.

Sidenote: Minot state has begun listing their hockey team on their main page of their athletics. Moving up once D2?

[344Johnson]

As for hockey giving inroads into FM, sure, yeah, but does football and basketball give us inroads in North Dakota? Yeah. Lets keep things the way they are. With us being happy how we are, and UND following us around saying, "We sure have a great hockey team, eh?"

[Tatanka]

There is some merit to the "teh hockies as a gateway drug to UND all-sports fandom" although smart fans of the non-teh-hockies sports know the difference. And those that don't, well, they fit the profile.

[EndZoneQB]

There is some merit to the "teh hockies as a gateway drug to UND all-sports fandom" although smart fans of the non-teh-hockies sports know the difference. And those that don't, well, they fit the profile.

Right. And, unfortunately, it's not uncommon for someone to be a UND fan for teh hockies and an NDSU fan for all other.

[The_Sicatoka]

Didn't the NDSU president recently try to shut down the on-campus day care center because of overall budget concerns? Adding hockey now wouldn't win a lot of friends in certain circles for him.

[TheBisonator]

This is a quote I found on ss.com regarding Williston State adding club hockey.

"As far as NDSU hockey, their fans and administration will never go for it because they know they could never get to UND's level. That's fine by me. But what they fail to see is that hockey gives UND major inroads to the Fargo-Moorhead market, even among non-UND alumni. The school-age kids there instantly recognize that UND hockey is really the only top level program around, and want to be part of that. By converting the kids to being Sioux hockey fans, it also opens the door for them to be Sioux fans in everything else. NDSU wouldn't even need to start women's hockey to compensate for Title IX, as they can just move their women's equestrian program to varsity status. With Scheel's Arena, the business potential is better than NDSU admins ever admit, but they have too many problems raising money for basic DI facility needs."

Is this true? I now that NDSU needs to work on their presence in the FM area, but I can't help but wonder if the success of their hockey translates to an increase in their 'supposed' fans for other sports. Don't tell me that anyone who has been out and around Fargo or been to a Force game doesn't see more UND stuff around then we all would like.

Maybe I am just being paranoid, and I am not in favor of adding hockey any time soon, but I just don't want to see Fargo-Moorhead being invaded and claiming more UND 'fans' who have choose all Sioux sports (whatever else they play up there...summer hockey? fall hockey? women's hockey?) over possibly becoming Bison fans.

Sidenote: Minot state has begun listing their hockey team on their main page of their athletics. Moving up once D2?

Out of every 1,000 Sioux Hockey fans in F-M (and in general throughout the region, for that matter), I would bet that less than 50 of them are fans of their football and basketball. And I'm probably being be generous when I say 50. As a matter of fact, I'm being incredibly generous. Look at the # of posts on the SS board. Their hockey forum grinds out activity and posts non-stop, 24/7 365. Their football forum can go days without a new post. Look, UND has created a brand around HOCKEY, but it's HOCKEY ONLY. I get sick and tired of seeing the dumbass posts on the SS board (especially from that star guy) about thinking that non-hockey sports can benefit and piggyback from hockey's popularity up north. NEWS FLASH: Your attendances in FB and BB suggest otherwise. (And recent NDSU beatdowns of UND in the other sports don't help your cause).

UND, despite what some of the winged monkeys in SS claim, has put all their eggs in the hockey basket. They have a cracked shell in the FB basket and a drop of yolk in the hoops basket. That's fine by me, honestly. I personally think it's better that they're known for a sport that we don't have. This region (ND and Western MN) is too small in population for each school's accomplishments to not have a negative effect on the other. In other words, this region is too small for the NDSU/UND battle to not be a zero-sum game. It's a zero-sum game, and it always will be. What's good for NDSU is bad for UND, and vice-versa. This is why I think that NDSU being successful in FB and BB takes away prestige and support from UND's FB and BB, especially when you consider that UND's hockey is always really good. Back in the DII days, it was possible for both schools to be really good in FB and BB and have major accomplishments and fan followings, but this is DI. The pie hasn't gotten much bigger, but the stakes have gotten WAY higher.

UND being really good in hockey and NDSU dominating the FB and BB sports is just like a cosmic balance when you think about it. It's almost the natural order of things. If NDSU tries to duplicate what UND is doing in hockey, that throws off the whole balance at a detriment to NDSU's FB and BB programs. I'm more worried than anything about the balance being distrupted, cause I'm not willing to be a fan of a school that competes well in hockey and goes 3-8 in football and does terrible in basketball.

[NDSUstudent]

I had about 10 friends I graduated high school with go to UND, most of them went to many Sioux hockey games. Combined they may have went to two football games and basketball forget about it.

I never hear them mention another Sioux sport now, it is all about hockey or it doesn't matter(unless they are playing NDSU).

[bisonpride]

I think its worth exploring. If the money is there than yes. If its not? No. But let's get the SHAC done first. Like I said... it can't hurt football and basketball.

It WAS explored 10 years ago HEAVILY! We chose to explore Division 1 for all sports instead. Please :praying: drop this stupid argument. You keep saying "it cant hurt football and basketball", well if we add it it will hurt them both bottom line! Thats why they didnt make the move in the first place with hockey 10 years ago! The firms were hired. The studies were done. Gino Gasparini was even going to coach it. If hockey was such a great idea financially where are some of the other northern schools like Iowa, Iowa State, Illinois, Montana, Syracuse, St Johns, UCONN to name a few. If we start to see these other schools jump on board then we should explore it but not now.

Lets build ALL the programs we have now into Summit League dominant contenders first. If we have any program lacking behind in funding then we need to build that up first before we even think of adding anything else.

As far as the equestrian from another comment... Great idea Sioux fan! Its much less expensive to haul around horses in trailers and feed and water them compared to hockey. Who is paying for the stall cleaning bill cuz I am sure the "athletes" wont be doing that on their own. I think some people need to find out exactly how much is spent on equetrian at SDSU before anyone thinks that would be a great alternative.

Here is a little glimpse into just how expensive that could be after looking at the "Barn Managers" bio from the Equestrian coaches page.

***Martin Hanson returns for his third year as the SDSU equestrian barn manger, where manages the day-to-day operations of the Nathelle and Lawrence DeHaan Equestrian Center and the 150 acres of land it sits on, as well as the care and welfare of South Dakota State's stable of more than 40 horses. In addition to his daily duties, Hanson maintains and supervises a staff of 10-15 student employees and aids in the design and implementation of capital improvements for the facility****

If Spreewell couldnt feed his family on 12Mil a year imagine feeding 40 hungry horses.

[bisonpride]

They have absolutely benefitted from NDSU/UND/SDSU/USD leaving D2. Shows how watered down it is. But it's stilll a good accomplishment to win the D2 Championship. Heck, NAIA teams beat UND now!

Listening to Sid and Dave this morning, they said a big part of the Championship was the new hockey arena that got built this year. It's nice but not huge. Capacity just over 6700 fans.

I think it's an added bonus that we already have the Scheels Center which is smaller but a great facility. It is certainly no Ralph but it's still as nice or nicer than many of the arenas and it can be ugraded as well. If you compare it to CHA teams, it's bigger than most. Smaller than WCHA arenas.

We don't need a big name coach. There are so few teams out there there are not many opportunities being given to coaches. However if we end up selling out every game and raising donations, we may have enough money to pay a coach like that.

We have to explore the idea. I think it's idiotic to just flat out say "no we dont' have the money and there is no chance of it working." How about we actually research it first. Who knows? There could be a ton of potential donors out there. Of course they are not going to show up unless we ask. Moorhead State even claimed to have had enough donors to pull it off.

Finish the SHAC. Research it.

The new arena had ZERO effect on them winning the title! UND has had the best hockey arena in the country arguably at any level for I think 10 years now and how many titles have they won. UMD's arena wasnt even open for the whole season. The talented seniors they had came to that school to play in the DECC before a new arena was even announced.

MSUM has never claimed to have had enough donors to pull it off. If they did it would already be done. They dont even have enough donors to pull of 10 football scholarships let alone adding 2 hockey programs at the D1 level.

[TheBisonator]

I had about 10 friends I graduated high school with go to UND, most of them went to many Sioux hockey games. Combined they may have went to two football games and basketball forget about it.

I never hear them mention another Sioux sport now, it is all about hockey or it doesn't matter(unless they are playing NDSU).

Ever see whenever they show a UND basketball game at the Betty on TV what the student section there looks like?? Dead empty. Empty empty empty. I saw them play one game on TV (against some sub-300 RPI jokers) last winter and I thought I saw maybe 3-4 total people sitting in their student section, which I could tell was there, cause of the big banner that said "STUDENT SECTION" draped above the top row.

And regarding online fan interest: There's like maybe 3 alums of that school who are even remotely interested in BB on the SS board. Game threads on there aren't even updated during the game, there's a preview post then the final score is posted with a couple further comments. And the same 4-5 people post on their BB board. By contrast, on BV, game threads for big games can come close to maxing out bandwidth, and that's for basketball. Football threads almost always need a 2-parter. FB threads on SS.com can go as little as 3 pages long.

Attendance: Regular crowds of less than 8,000 for football and they almost NEVER breach 2,000 for basketball. And they have a gorgeous (but small) BB arena. 2 years ago the #16 team in FCS, Cal-Poly, comes into town, they're playing basically for a GWFC championship, and they get 6,711 in attendance. NDSU plays for the GWFC title in 2006 and draws 19,053. I know we piss on NDSU's basketball attendance a lot, but if a home game at the BSA is against a DI team, the attendance won't go less than 2,200 or so on weekday night game, or 3,000 on a Saturday night game. Average for a weeknight game will be about 2,500 and maybe about 3,500 for a Saturday nighter. And this is in the worst BB arena in the Dakotas.

Of course they pack em in for hockey, and they sell jerseys for hockey, and they have the TV deal for hockey, and they have the fan following for hockey. BUT IT'S FOR HOCKEY. They do this at the detriment to their football and basketball. I'm afraid that if NDSU went that route, the same would happen to us. Even fans of UND FB and BB (whatever few of them there are) admit that NDSU has set the bar in the region when it comes to football atmosphere, fan following, promotions, on-field performance, etc. and that UND basically cannot catch up with what NDSU has put together. We have that on them. And at least the thing we have on them is in a sport that both schools have. I don't want to give that up. And we risk giving that up if we start a massively big hockey program.

[344Johnson]

http://www.videobb.com/video/4tPXkbI7HvFg


This video shows the difference between teh hockies fans and normal folks.

[onbison09]

]The new arena had ZERO effect on them winning the title![/B] UND has had the best hockey arena in the country arguably at any level for I think 10 years now and how many titles have they won. UMD's arena wasnt even open for the whole season. The talented seniors they had came to that school to play in the DECC before a new arena was even announced.

MSUM has never claimed to have had enough donors to pull it off. If they did it would already be done. They dont even have enough donors to pull of 10 football scholarships let alone adding 2 hockey programs at the D1 level.

Meh. I wouldn't say zero. They had some good freshman come in. But you're right about the seniors.

[skolbrother]

This is a quote I found on ss.com regarding Williston State adding club hockey.

"As far as NDSU hockey, their fans and administration will never go for it because they know they could never get to UND's level. That's fine by me. But what they fail to see is that hockey gives UND major inroads to the Fargo-Moorhead market, even among non-UND alumni. The school-age kids there instantly recognize that UND hockey is really the only top level program around, and want to be part of that. By converting the kids to being Sioux hockey fans, it also opens the door for them to be Sioux fans in everything else. NDSU wouldn't even need to start women's hockey to compensate for Title IX, as they can just move their women's equestrian program to varsity status. With Scheel's Arena, the business potential is better than NDSU admins ever admit, but they have too many problems raising money for basic DI facility needs."

Is this true? I now that NDSU needs to work on their presence in the FM area, but I can't help but wonder if the success of their hockey translates to an increase in their 'supposed' fans for other sports. Don't tell me that anyone who has been out and around Fargo or been to a Force game doesn't see more UND stuff around then we all would like.

Maybe I am just being paranoid, and I am not in favor of adding hockey any time soon, but I just don't want to see Fargo-Moorhead being invaded and claiming more UND 'fans' who have choose all Sioux sports (whatever else they play up there...summer hockey? fall hockey? women's hockey?) over possibly becoming Bison fans.

Sidenote: Minot state has begun listing their hockey team on their main page of their athletics. Moving up once D2?

I am fairly involved with Fargo youth hockey and I will pass along some numbers. We anticipate close to 1,000 kids next year (boys and girls) playing hockey from the termite( age 4,5,6,) - bantams ( 9th/10th grade). These kids are growing up in Fargo (which is in the Great state of North Dakota). Think about it. Btw, this does not include West Fargo. This is valid information. I know many of you dislike hockey but the growing numbers are certainly showing that once kids play it becomes their sport of choice.

[Notorious]

I am fairly involved with Fargo youth hockey and I will pass along some numbers. We anticipate close to 1,000 kids next year (boys and girls) playing hockey from the termite( age 4,5,6,) - bantams ( 9th/10th grade). These kids are growing up in Fargo (which is in the Great state of North Dakota). Think about it. Btw, this does not include West Fargo. This is valid information. I know many of you dislike hockey but the growing numbers are certainly showing that once kids play it becomes their sport of choice.

Limited "barriers to entry"....athletically speaking...it's a good sport for average and below-average athletes. Don't flip me off!!...just a fact.

[EndZoneQB]

Limited "barriers to entry"....athletically speaking...it's a good sport for average and below-average athletes. Don't flip me off!!...just a fact.

You have a point. They just have different levels of kids playing.

[344Johnson]

The school I went to, Jamestown, always had the kids in hockey who enjoyed hockey more than the other sports. I do not know if that had something to do with the fact they couldn't make the basketball or wrestling team, or the fact that they could be the "star" on the hockey team. I suppose they go hand in hand.

I think that hockey kids are really doing themselves a favor, they can be the star in hockey- which is the same as the worst starter on the basketball team as far as status in the hallways at school. Thats how North Dakota works, UND folks try to say we are a hockey state, no, we are football and basketball. Just how it goes, our best athletes are in basketball and football.

[skolbrother]

Just giving you the numbers.

Rationalize them anyway you want.

And, I am again reminded that most of you must be under the age of 35 and that is why I should stay away!

Carry on!!

[onbison09]

Limited "barriers to entry"....athletically speaking...it's a good sport for average and below-average athletes. Don't flip me off!!...just a fact.

Nevermind..... just going to say I disagree

[lakesbison]

NCAA FINAL FOUR - KENTUCKY/UCONN CBS Sat 8:57 PM 16,715,000 MILLION


http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2011/04/08/thursday-cable-ratings-terminator-the-sarah-connor-chronicles-returns-swamp-people-nba-lead-night-archer-more/88799

Thursday top 10 Cable Ratings.

#1 swamp people 3.5 million
#10 terminator .625 million

frozen 4 not even in top 20.

***********************************************


Saturday

#1 Masters 7.7million
#2Nascar 3.5million
#8 NCAA hockey .3million

8 PM Shows:
The Mentalist (CBS) [repeat] – 4.1 million
Harry’s Law (NBC) [repeat] – 3.5 million

9 PM Shows:
Criminal Minds: Suspect Behavior (CBS) [repeat] – 4.3 million
Law & Order: Los Angeles (NBC) [repeat] – 3.8 million

10 PM Show:
Law & Order: Special Victims Unit (NBC) [repeat] – 5.1 million


NO ONE CARES ABOUT COLLEGE HOCKEY IN THE REST OF THE COUNTRY

[344Johnson]

NCAA FINAL FOUR - KENTUCKY/UCONN CBS Sat 8:57 PM 16,715,000 MILLION


http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2011/04/08/thursday-cable-ratings-terminator-the-sarah-connor-chronicles-returns-swamp-people-nba-lead-night-archer-more/88799

Thursday top 10 Cable Ratings.

#1 swamp people 3.5 million
#10 terminator .625 million

frozen 4 not even in top 20.

***********************************************


Saturday

#1 Masters 7.7million
#2Nascar 3.5million
#8 NCAA hockey .3million

8 PM Shows:
The Mentalist (CBS) [repeat] – 4.1 million
Harry’s Law (NBC) [repeat] – 3.5 million

9 PM Shows:
Criminal Minds: Suspect Behavior (CBS) [repeat] – 4.3 million
Law & Order: Los Angeles (NBC) [repeat] – 3.8 million

10 PM Show:
Law & Order: Special Victims Unit (NBC) [repeat] – 5.1 million


NO ONE CARES ABOUT COLLEGE HOCKEY IN THE REST OF THE COUNTRY

Lakes done himself up some research! But my American friend! You are forgetting about the millions of us Canadians watching teh hockies! And the funny soundin' folks over there in Norway, Sweden, Finland, and Russia! And all those folks love the Sioux! Cause they are from the WCHA! Also known as the best! So much better than the NHL!

[Facts]

I am fairly involved with Fargo youth hockey and I will pass along some numbers. We anticipate close to 1,000 kids next year (boys and girls) playing hockey from the termite( age 4,5,6,) - bantams ( 9th/10th grade). These kids are growing up in Fargo (which is in the Great state of North Dakota). Think about it. Btw, this does not include West Fargo. This is valid information. I know many of you dislike hockey but the growing numbers are certainly showing that once kids play it becomes their sport of choice.

I too was at one time "fairly involved" in Fargo hockey and "1000 kids" playing hockey in Fargo? That number doesn't even come close to telling the whole story. Do you have the break down by level (# of termites, mites, squirts, peewee's, bantams, and high school)? I'm sure the number of termites and mites dwarfs the numbers of other age levels. Also, remember there are three Varsity/JV programs (40ish kids per HS program) and there should be 4 full programs now in Fargo with the addition of Fargo Davies, but there aren't even enough kids to do that as evidenced by the FS and Shan coop.

10th graders in Bantams?? Not that I've ever seen. FYI Bantams is more than likely a combo of 7th, 8th, and/or 9th graders depending on age and grade. Often "old" 9th graders have to play HS because they are too old for bantams)...

[EndZoneQB]

Lakes done himself up some research! But my American friend! You are forgetting about the millions of us Canadians watching teh hockies! And the funny soundin' folks over there in Norway, Sweden, Finland, and Russia! And all those folks love the Sioux! Cause they are from the WCHA! Also known as the best! So much better than the NHL!

Another peculiar post from "344Johnson"...Buthockey?

[lakesbison]

with gas prices rising, hockey moms/dads trekking kids across country every weekend for 8 years in a row will be coming to a halt soon. its expensive as all get out.

The problem is all these dam und grads that cant find a god dam job up in grand forks and flood to fargo that has the hockey kids in fargo's system.

[344Johnson]

Another peculiar post from "344Johnson"...Buthockey?

I am but a poser of Buthockey. The Robin to his Batman!

[coldspot]

I am but a poser of Buthockey. The Robin to his Batman!

Batman and Robin "played for the other team" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esnkNeK3uY8) NSFW

not sure how that works with buthockey, those hockey players are such suave gentlemen, except for that sean avery guy, he's questionable with the whole purse thing.

[bisonpride]

I am fairly involved with Fargo youth hockey and I will pass along some numbers. We anticipate close to 1,000 kids next year (boys and girls) playing hockey from the termite( age 4,5,6,) - bantams ( 9th/10th grade). These kids are growing up in Fargo (which is in the Great state of North Dakota). Think about it. Btw, this does not include West Fargo. This is valid information. I know many of you dislike hockey but the growing numbers are certainly showing that once kids play it becomes their sport of choice.

Ages 8-15 Fargo Babe Ruth Only (no West Fargo or Moorhead) over 900 kids. That does not include ages 4-7 who play park board ball.

South and Shanley had to co-op to have a Varsity/JV for Hockey. Their are over 90 kids out for baseball between the 2 schools.

The numbers dont even come close to comparing.

[CAS4127]

Why does NDSU need hockey, why??!!! Answer, we don't. First, IMO, it would be detrimental to our other programs, and, second, we ALL already know how to "flip the bird" to someone we are pissed at.

I get the "NDSU should start D1 hockey" from most of my UND hockey friends. When I ask why, I get some bumbling, stumbling almost incoherent (and, no, they aren't all necessarily drunk at the time) response that results in my conclusion that they want us to start hockey so that they have sport they can consistently beat us in. Do we really want that?! If we were to go the hockey route, then we would get even more "butthockey" responses. For example, we could continue to rub FB and BB into their faces, and we would get a, "butthockey" response even more so then we do now.

Sorry, that's not for me!

[skolbrother]

Ages 8-15 Fargo Babe Ruth Only (no West Fargo or Moorhead) over 900 kids. That does not include ages 4-7 who play park board ball.

South and Shanley had to co-op to have a Varsity/JV for Hockey. Their are over 90 kids out for baseball between the 2 schools.

The numbers dont even come close to comparing.

You are right at the high school level. The 3rd high school created a bit of a demographics problem for South.

That said, at the termite and mite level they are setting records for participation.

I am just giving you the numbers and the growing levels of participation at the youth level. I have specific numbers but my point was if kids are playing hockey and enjoying it and growing up in North Dakota they are going to typically choose a team to cheer for at the college level.

[344Johnson]

You are right at the high school level. The 3rd high school created a bit of a demographics problem for South.

That said, at the termite and mite level they are setting records for participation.

I am just giving you the numbers and the growing levels of participation at the youth level. I have specific numbers but my point was if kids are playing hockey and enjoying it and growing up in North Dakota they are going to typically choose a team to cheer for at the college level.

I can see what you are saying. But a lot of kids can be seen at wrestling tournements sporting some sioux clothing. The Sioux dont have wrestling...haven't for awhile. Granted, you do see more NDSU and Univ. of Mary than UND stuff but still.

[abc123]

NCAA FINAL FOUR - KENTUCKY/UCONN CBS Sat 8:57 PM 16,715,000 MILLION


http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2011/04/08/thursday-cable-ratings-terminator-the-sarah-connor-chronicles-returns-swamp-people-nba-lead-night-archer-more/88799

Thursday top 10 Cable Ratings.

#1 swamp people 3.5 million
#10 terminator .625 million

frozen 4 not even in top 20.

***********************************************


Saturday

#1 Masters 7.7million
#2Nascar 3.5million
#8 NCAA hockey .3million

8 PM Shows:
The Mentalist (CBS) [repeat] – 4.1 million
Harry’s Law (NBC) [repeat] – 3.5 million

9 PM Shows:
Criminal Minds: Suspect Behavior (CBS) [repeat] – 4.3 million
Law & Order: Los Angeles (NBC) [repeat] – 3.8 million

10 PM Show:
Law & Order: Special Victims Unit (NBC) [repeat] – 5.1 million


NO ONE CARES ABOUT COLLEGE HOCKEY IN THE REST OF THE COUNTRY

While the numbers aren't even close to in the same neighborhood as the basketball tournament, the NCAA is reporting via twitter that the semi-final games were the highest rated and most watched ever (http://twitter.com/NCAAIceHockey/status/57888512925630464) and the 2011 Frozen Four tournament itself was second-highest rated of all time with 3.2 million watching. (http://twitter.com/NCAAIceHockey/status/57887352986673152) I'm assuming that's combined for all three games, though I can't find anything to verify that. If that is the case, and the average is over 1 million per game, not bad for a regional sport that no one cares about. Lakes, I'm not sure how that matches up with your numbers above, but it seems taht something doesn't match up.

[lakesbison]

well, I dont see those #'s anywhere.


http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2011/04/12/cable-top-25-iomg-icarly-tops-weekly-cable-viewing-wwe-raw-pawn-stars-big-time-rush-yankeessox-and-more/89086

top 25 cable for that week, they arent in the top 25.


however, 3 Million could be for all 3 games, that would make sense, But I cant see it anywhere, ill keep lookin. 750,000 for each semi and 1.5 for finale?? could be.

[abc123]

Out of every 1,000 Sioux Hockey fans in F-M (and in general throughout the region, for that matter), I would bet that less than 50 of them are fans of their football and basketball. And I'm probably being be generous when I say 50. As a matter of fact, I'm being incredibly generous. Look at the # of posts on the SS board. Their hockey forum grinds out activity and posts non-stop, 24/7 365. Their football forum can go days without a new post. Look, UND has created a brand around HOCKEY, but it's HOCKEY ONLY. I get sick and tired of seeing the dumbass posts on the SS board (especially from that star guy) about thinking that non-hockey sports can benefit and piggyback from hockey's popularity up north. NEWS FLASH: Your attendances in FB and BB suggest otherwise. (And recent NDSU beatdowns of UND in the other sports don't help your cause).

UND, despite what some of the winged monkeys in SS claim, has put all their eggs in the hockey basket. They have a cracked shell in the FB basket and a drop of yolk in the hoops basket. That's fine by me, honestly. I personally think it's better that they're known for a sport that we don't have. This region (ND and Western MN) is too small in population for each school's accomplishments to not have a negative effect on the other. In other words, this region is too small for the NDSU/UND battle to not be a zero-sum game. It's a zero-sum game, and it always will be. What's good for NDSU is bad for UND, and vice-versa. This is why I think that NDSU being successful in FB and BB takes away prestige and support from UND's FB and BB, especially when you consider that UND's hockey is always really good. Back in the DII days, it was possible for both schools to be really good in FB and BB and have major accomplishments and fan followings, but this is DI. The pie hasn't gotten much bigger, but the stakes have gotten WAY higher.

UND being really good in hockey and NDSU dominating the FB and BB sports is just like a cosmic balance when you think about it. It's almost the natural order of things. If NDSU tries to duplicate what UND is doing in hockey, that throws off the whole balance at a detriment to NDSU's FB and BB programs. I'm more worried than anything about the balance being distrupted, cause I'm not willing to be a fan of a school that competes well in hockey and goes 3-8 in football and does terrible in basketball.

There are a whole lot of interesting comments, suggestions and mostly opinion in this ramble.

To say that there is one Sioux football/basketball fan for every 20 hockey fans is wrong. Is hockey the biggest sport and most popular sport? At this point in time, yes. But not long ago, that wasn’t the case. The majority of Sioux fans are fans of all sports, not just hockey. Your point of there being just hockey fans is true, but the same can be said of NDSU and its football fans and how many of those don’t care about basketball.

No doubt that football and basketball are down right now and with that goes interest. But, I’m not sure where you get the idea that all the eggs for UND are in the hockey basket either. UND’s budget for both FB and BB programs are in the same neighborhood as NDSU, though you could easily argue at this point in time, the return they are getting isn’t that great, but that will change.

And you are absolutely incorrect on the zero-sum game idea. People support a winner. If your theory was right, explain to me where all the basketball fans that cheered for NDSU during its tournament run went? If it was a true zero-sum, they would be UND fans, because attendance is down at the BSA. Since attendance is down at both schools, it can’t be zero-sum. My guess is you don’t understand what a zero-sum game is.

I’m curious about your comment about NDSU dominating FB and BB and it being cosmic balance? Are you talking in general or just against UND?

As for your last comment about being 3-8 in football and terrible in basketball? I assume you were trying to slam UND, but you pick a record that NDSU had in 2010 when NDSU’s basketball team wasn’t all that great either but I'm sure you still supported them?

[344Johnson]

There are a whole lot of interesting comments, suggestions and mostly opinion in this ramble.

To say that there is one Sioux football/basketball fan for every 20 hockey fans is wrong. Is hockey the biggest sport and most popular sport? At this point in time, yes. But not long ago, that wasn’t the case. The majority of Sioux fans are fans of all sports, not just hockey. Your point of there being just hockey fans is true, but the same can be said of NDSU and its football fans and how many of those don’t care about basketball.

No doubt that football and basketball are down right now and with that goes interest. But, I’m not sure where you get the idea that all the eggs for UND are in the hockey basket either. UND’s budget for both FB and BB programs are in the same neighborhood as NDSU, though you could easily argue at this point in time, the return they are getting isn’t that great, but that will change.

And you are absolutely incorrect on the zero-sum game idea. People support a winner. If your theory was right, explain to me where all the basketball fans that cheered for NDSU during its tournament run went? If it was a true zero-sum, they would be UND fans, because attendance is down at the BSA. Since attendance is down at both schools, it can’t be zero-sum. My guess is you don’t understand what a zero-sum game is.

I’m curious about your comment about NDSU dominating FB and BB and it being cosmic balance? Are you talking in general or just against UND?

As for your last comment about being 3-8 in football and terrible in basketball? I assume you were trying to slam UND, but you pick a record that NDSU had in 2010 when NDSU’s basketball team wasn’t all that great either but I'm sure you still supported them?

The budget UND spends is similar, but has UND ever been a football power? No, they've had good teams and good stretches, but one championship vs. 8 championships? Not a comparison.
Basketball, UND's team, is terrible. Traditionally, I have zero idea about them but watching them play the Herd in the dome, they sucked. Losing the second half by....28 or something? To an average Bison team? Embarassing.

Maybe we were just spoiled, throughout our transition to D1 we had solid basketball and maybe the best FCS team in the country. I don't know. And just like how NDSU has mostly football fans, UND has mostly hockey, don't try and kid yourself. Obviously they have about 6-7 thousand football fans. Don't say, oh we had a bad year. When the herd had a bad season, they still were getting 14-15 thousand people. UND fans are not as supportive of lesser sports as the Bison are. Its just how it goes. Not saying that makes them bad or wrong. Just different.

[abc123]

The budget UND spends is similar, but has UND ever been a football power? No, they've had good teams and good stretches, but one championship vs. 8 championships? Not a comparison.
Basketball, UND's team, is terrible. Traditionally, I have zero idea about them but watching them play the Herd in the dome, they sucked. Losing the second half by....28 or something? To an average Bison team? Embarassing.

Maybe we were just spoiled, throughout our transition to D1 we had solid basketball and maybe the best FCS team in the country. I don't know. And just like how NDSU has mostly football fans, UND has mostly hockey, don't try and kid yourself. Obviously they have about 6-7 thousand football fans. Don't say, oh we had a bad year. When the herd had a bad season, they still were getting 14-15 thousand people. UND fans are not as supportive of lesser sports as the Bison are. Its just how it goes. Not saying that makes them bad or wrong. Just different.

My thoughts exactly. You went over to siouxsports.com and made an idiot of yourself with your lack of knowledge and yet it hasn't stopped you.

[344Johnson]

My thoughts exactly. You went over to siouxsports.com and made an idiot of yourself with your lack of knowledge and yet it hasn't stopped you.

You are defending that basketball team? They were bad

[DjKyRo]

You are defending that basketball team? They were bad

I think he's defending you making rash generalizations about their athletic programs without having actually checked to see if you were right. I think UND blows as much as anyone but how about you check up on the facts first? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fighting_Sioux_football

NCC Champs = 24
Overall record = 595-353-30 (.624) (believe that's accurate to a year ago)

Again, the Siouxage are super lame but you sound straight-up stupid assuming they have a bad history. Very competitive teams all throughout the era of Bison dominance, we just won more championships. We're the better program but they were by no means poor.

[lakesbison]

they havent been above 300 RPI in years.

[344Johnson]

I think he's defending you making rash generalizations about their athletic programs without having actually checked to see if you were right. I think UND blows as much as anyone but how about you check up on the facts first? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fighting_Sioux_football

NCC Champs = 24
Overall record = 595-353-30 (.624) (believe that's accurate to a year ago)

Again, the Siouxage are super lame but you sound straight-up stupid assuming they have a bad history. Very competitive teams all throughout the era of Bison dominance, we just won more championships. We're the better program but they were by no means poor.

Oh, never assumed they had a bad history. Just nothing special either. Very competitive throughout all the years of dominance? One of those games was something like 63-12. There is a difference between the simdorn, beachy administrations and the Bentrim "Reagan" Administration.

[344Johnson]

My thoughts exactly. You went over to siouxsports.com and made an idiot of yourself with your lack of knowledge and yet it hasn't stopped you.

And had you kept reading you would have noticed I said THIS YEAR, they were bad. Truly terrible. I didn't say any word about the history of their basketball team other than the 2010-2011 season. It happens, we have bad years in sports too. Don't sweat it.

[TheBisonator]

I think he's defending you making rash generalizations about their athletic programs without having actually checked to see if you were right. I think UND blows as much as anyone but how about you check up on the facts first? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fighting_Sioux_football

NCC Champs = 24
Overall record = 595-353-30 (.624) (believe that's accurate to a year ago)

Again, the Siouxage are super lame but you sound straight-up stupid assuming they have a bad history. Very competitive teams all throughout the era of Bison dominance, we just won more championships. We're the better program but they were by no means poor.

If I recall from looking at the archives, UND football has had stretch runs of seasons in the latter half of the 20th century where they did HORRIBLY, like winning 2 or 3 or 4 games a year. And these weren't just a season here or there, they were like anti-dynasties full of bad, losing seasons.

By contrast, NDSU has only had THREE seasons of 3 wins or less since 1964. And two of them happened in the last decade!! Even in the years from 1993-2003 (the years sue fans like to rip on us for losing all the time to them), we were competing for conference championships almost every year. I think the exceptions were 2002 and 2001 (I think, it was the 5-6 year right after the year we played on the kitty litter at Delta State).

UND was PITIFUL throughout the 80's. Yeah, NDSU was also pitiful in the late 50's and early 60's, but that was long enough in the past, and we've managed not to have anything like that happen again. We were almost ALWAYS in a better position than them to win the conference and playoffs or win a championship in football from the 1960's to 2003.

As for UND basketball?? They've been a complete nothing for the past 10 years, and that's all I care about or am willing to go back for.

So in summation, to say that UND football and basketball has this rich, outstanding tradition of winning that can be built upon - I don't buy it.

[344Johnson]

If I recall from looking at the archives, UND football has had stretch runs of seasons in the latter half of the 20th century where they did HORRIBLY, like winning 2 or 3 or 4 games a year. And these weren't just a season here or there, they were like anti-dynasties full of bad, losing seasons.

By contrast, NDSU has only had THREE seasons of 3 wins or less since 1964. And two of them happened in the last decade!! Even in the years from 1993-2003 (the years sue fans like to rip on us for losing all the time to them), we were competing for conference championships almost every year. I think the exceptions were 2002 and 2001 (I think, it was the 5-6 year right after the year we played on the kitty litter at Delta State).

UND was PITIFUL throughout the 80's. Yeah, NDSU was also pitiful in the late 50's and early 60's, but that was long enough in the past, and we've managed not to have anything like that happen again. We were almost ALWAYS in a better position than them to win the conference and playoffs or win a championship in football from the 1960's to 2003.
As for UND basketball?? They've been a complete nothing for the past 10 years, and that's all I care about or am willing to go back for.

So in summation, to say that UND football and basketball has this rich, outstanding tradition of winning that can be built upon - I don't buy it.

THANK YOU! It gets old when people say we should respect UND's great football tradition, What tradition? Oh all of those conference championships.....alright cool. What about National Championships? In 85 or 86 I think the Bison beat them 63-12. Football teams with tradition don't get rocked like that.

When I talk to siouxage fans, I usually mention that NDSU has had the better teams for the past 50 years or so, including the rough run in 93-03. They say that a worse team can't beat better ones consistently like that. One day perhaps they will understand how the great game of football works.

[abc123]

THANK YOU! It gets old when people say we should respect UND's great football tradition, What tradition? Oh all of those conference championships.....alright cool. What about National Championships? In 85 or 86 I think the Bison beat them 63-12. Football teams with tradition don't get rocked like that.

When I talk to siouxage fans, I usually mention that NDSU has had the better teams for the past 50 years or so, including the rough run in 93-03. They say that a worse team can't beat better ones consistently like that. One day perhaps they will understand how the great game of football works.

Weird how you have those conversations with people but already admitted that you didn't know anything about UND football or its history.
http://forum.siouxsports.com/topic/15576-what-you-guys-think/page__p__501247#entry501247

[344Johnson]

History, being anything before the 80's. I take peoples word who were around when they say 60's is when NDSU started turning it on especially against UND. Can I personally confirm it or do I know the statistics other than 8 championships against 1 for UND? No, not at all. In fact I was very surprised to hear UND has had that many conference titles and a pretty good of a winning percentage, but thats still not football tradition. Tradition is what we have. Or on a bigger scale, what Oklahoma, Alabama, USC, Nebraska, etc. have. UND is a little harder to compare...maybe a Colorado or something? Sometimes pretty good, but not a whole lot to show for it.

[TheBisonator]

History, being anything before the 80's. I take peoples word who were around when they say 60's is when NDSU started turning it on especially against UND. Can I personally confirm it or do I know the statistics other than 8 championships against 1 for UND? No, not at all. In fact I was very surprised to hear UND has had that many conference titles and a pretty good of a winning percentage, but thats still not football tradition. Tradition is what we have. Or on a bigger scale, what Oklahoma, Alabama, USC, Nebraska, etc. have. UND is a little harder to compare...maybe a Colorado or something? Sometimes pretty good, but not a whole lot to show for it.

NDSU won three College Division national championships via the polls in the late 1960's (This was the equivalent of basically the top half of FCS and the bottom third of FBS today). NDSU then won 5 NCAA DII national championships in the 1980's and in 1990.

UND won one DII national championship in 2001, which was around the time the scholarship levels were being reduced to the point where the whole division was becoming really diluted (Not to mention schools like Minnesota-Crookston and MSUM entering DII)

In the 1980's, when NDSU was taking home title after title, there were 45 scholarships maximum for a DII team. NDSU was giving out all 45 of them, and not very many other DII schools were doing the same. UND was not able to provide all 45 like NDSU did. This max went down to 36 sometime in the 90's. Surprise surprise, UND was giving out 36 schollies, but now NDSU was forced to reduce the number of schollies it gave for football to 36. The result: UND beat us most of the time, almost always in a really close game.

Back when the score was 45-30-something for schollies in favor of NDSU, NDSU was UND's master in football. Every year was a woodshed beatin' on UND.

[Hambone]

NDSU won three College Division national championships via the polls in the late 1960's (This was the equivalent of basically the top half of FCS and the bottom third of FBS today). NDSU then won 5 NCAA DII national championships in the 1980's and in 1990.

UND won one DII national championship in 2001, which was around the time the scholarship levels were being reduced to the point where the whole division was becoming really diluted (Not to mention schools like Minnesota-Crookston and MSUM entering DII)

In the 1980's, when NDSU was taking home title after title, there were 45 scholarships maximum for a DII team. NDSU was giving out all 45 of them, and not very many other DII schools were doing the same. UND was not able to provide all 45 like NDSU did. This max went down to 36 sometime in the 90's. Surprise surprise, UND was giving out 36 schollies, but now NDSU was forced to reduce the number of schollies it gave for football to 36. The result: UND beat us most of the time, almost always in a really close game.

Back when the score was 45-30-something for schollies in favor of NDSU, NDSU was UND's master in football. Every year was a woodshed beatin' on UND.

You realize you're essentially saying the only way you can be better than UND is by having an advantage in scholarships, don't you? And that the only way they were so good was that advantage? Might want to rephrase....

[Notorious]

You realize you're essentially saying the only way you can be better than UND is by having an advantage in scholarships, don't you?

Don't listen to him...he's canadian.

[TheBisonator]

Coming back to the original purpose of this thread, baseball has just reeled off 5 wins in a row and is now 4-2 in the conference, recently turning its record from an absolutely pathetic winless first 13 games to a merely "crappy" 7-18. And hey, they've gone 7-5 in their last 12.

One thing that has not been mentioned in this thread, but I think bears great importance:

College World Series > Frozen Four

Winnipeg's getting its NHL team back next year. I'll personally have my hockey team already. Don't need a college team to also root for. I can only focus on so many teams.

[onbison09]

Coming back to the original purpose of this thread, baseball has just reeled off 5 wins in a row and is now 4-2 in the conference, recently turning its record from an absolutely pathetic winless first 13 games to a merely "crappy" 7-18. And hey, they've gone 7-5 in their last 12.

One thing that has not been mentioned in this thread, but I think bears great importance:

College World Series > Frozen Four

Winnipeg's getting its NHL team back next year. I'll personally have my hockey team already. Don't need a college team to also root for. I can only focus on so many teams.

Based on what?

[onbison09]

You realize you're essentially saying the only way you can be better than UND is by having an advantage in scholarships, don't you? And that the only way they were so good was that advantage? Might want to rephrase....

You could argue we chose to give out more and you guys chose to give out less. But yeah...

[duluthbison]

It WAS explored 10 years ago HEAVILY! We chose to explore Division 1 for all sports instead. Please :praying: drop this stupid argument. You keep saying "it cant hurt football and basketball", well if we add it it will hurt them both bottom line! Thats why they didnt make the move in the first place with hockey 10 years ago! The firms were hired. The studies were done. Gino Gasparini was even going to coach it. If hockey was such a great idea financially where are some of the other northern schools like Iowa, Iowa State, Illinois, Montana, Syracuse, St Johns, UCONN to name a few. If we start to see these other schools jump on board then we should explore it but not now.

Lets build ALL the programs we have now into Summit League dominant contenders first. If we have any program lacking behind in funding then we need to build that up first before we even think of adding anything else.

As far as the equestrian from another comment... Great idea Sioux fan! Its much less expensive to haul around horses in trailers and feed and water them compared to hockey. Who is paying for the stall cleaning bill cuz I am sure the "athletes" wont be doing that on their own. I think some people need to find out exactly how much is spent on equetrian at SDSU before anyone thinks that would be a great alternative.

Here is a little glimpse into just how expensive that could be after looking at the "Barn Managers" bio from the Equestrian coaches page.

***Martin Hanson returns for his third year as the SDSU equestrian barn manger, where manages the day-to-day operations of the Nathelle and Lawrence DeHaan Equestrian Center and the 150 acres of land it sits on, as well as the care and welfare of South Dakota State's stable of more than 40 horses. In addition to his daily duties, Hanson maintains and supervises a staff of 10-15 student employees and aids in the design and implementation of capital improvements for the facility****

If Spreewell couldnt feed his family on 12Mil a year imagine feeding 40 hungry horses.

The firms were hired because there was serious interest, the reason why it failed was because NDSU, the city, and a few others got into a spat about who was going to pay for the new arena and were it was going to be. There were plans to put an arena downtown, and from what I was told NDSU even went as far as to take down payments for Bison Hockey season tickets at this new venue. But after that things came crashing down and they haven't been picked up since.

I think that hockey could be a really good team with in a few years. I think that now is a great time to get into D1 hockey with Minnesota and Wisconsin leaving the WCHA.

http://library.ndsu.edu/tools/dspace/load/?file=/repository/bitstream/handle/10365/6313/University_Address_1999.pdf?sequence=1

Chapman's State of the University Address, 1999


Consistent with my goal for every campus program to be the best it can be, this summer I gave the athletic department permission to explore its future, including two matters which received a lot of media coverage: a possible divisional switch and adding hockey. When resources are scarce, why should we consider putting additional resources into areas outside of teaching and scholarship? The short answer is a greater possible return on investment. What we're doing right now is, in effect, a business plan to see if the rewards will outweigh the costs.
Let's talk about hockey first. For a long time, there has been community and campus interest in adding varsity hockey. Engineering studies have been commissioned by the City of Fargo with private support and non-appropriated funds from the athletic budget to see if a suitable facility could be constructed as part of a downtown redevelopment plan, on our campus, or at some other location. Hockey is a sport that traditionally supports itself. So the question is whether the cost of this program and facility makes economic sense, and if so, based on the best data available, we can make a decision on adding it to our athletic mix.

If you were around Fargo-Moorhead this summer, you may have read about the second issue facing athletics, a possible divisional switch. Let me state loudly and clearly that no decision has been made. As scholars, we recognize the importance of making decisions based on data. What is happening now is that data are being gathered before this campus makes a decision. Perhaps phrasing the issue as a
research question is appropriate: would a switch from NCAA Division II to NCAA Division IAA make sense economically and be consistent with the perspective of wanting all NDSU programs to be the best they can be?
This is a time of great uncertainty in collegiate athletics and we really don't know how schools and conferences will be positioned in the coming years. Making a change to Division IAA likely will offer the university greater national exposure, which will, in time, support our efforts in recruiting and institutional growth. But can we afford it? Let's find out, then make up our minds about these proposals. This is a matter with statewide implications and our discussions need a statewide perspective, as well.

[56BISON73]

I dont understand why some want hockey. Because when they discuss UNDs hockey program they say its only a niche sport thats regional with no national following. Even though its D1 and they have won numerous National Championships.
Please explain.

[coldspot]

I dont understand why some want hockey. Because when they discuss UNDs hockey program they say its only a niche sport thats regional with no national following. Even though its D1 and they have won numerous National Championships.
Please explain.

let's drop the hockey talk and build a decent baseball program that can get into the post season, possibly into the NCAA tournament. because as it was said before

college world series > frozen four

If you don't believe that, try watching the CWS this summer on ESPN. it's on almost every night of the week for two weeks in June.

[onbison09]

let's drop the hockey talk and build a decent baseball program that can get into the post season, possibly into the NCAA tournament. because as it was said before

college world series > frozen four

If you don't believe that, try watching the CWS this summer on ESPN. it's on almost every night of the week for two weeks in June.

Does anyone honestly think we'll be anywhere the CWS in our lifetimes? :hide:

[coldspot]

Does anyone honestly think we'll be anywhere the CWS in our lifetimes? :hide:

no, but if we win the conference ever, I bet a hell of a lot more people watch the selection show for the CWS than for the FF.

[bisonpride]

Does anyone honestly think we'll be anywhere the CWS in our lifetimes? :hide:

Does anyone honestly think we will be anywhere near the basketball Elite Eight in our lifetime? Same difference!

Did anyone ever think the softball team would make the Sweet Sixteen?

Fully fund the baseball program so they can go to California, Arizona, and Texas to recruit like softball, football, and every other sport can and does and see what happens. You will then have a program that is a perennial conference contender and have enough money to keep the Elgie's and Frenzels from going to Kansas and Arizona because our program could realistically make the tournament every year. ORU has been right on the edge of the CWS for years. SDSU's current roster only has 9 players from SD or MN. Now I am not saying completely abandon our recruiting base but you can pick up a couple key players from those areas that can make a difference in losing those close games like we have this year and winning them.

[mgbison]

Have we even played a home game in baseball yet?

[mgbison]

no, but if we win the conference ever, I bet a hell of a lot more people watch the selection show for the CWS than for the FF.


Please tell me you are joking. Maybe if ndsu was Alabama or a southern state, but not in fargo or the upper Midwest.

[onbison09]

no, but if we win the conference ever, I bet a hell of a lot more people watch the selection show for the CWS than for the FF.

Meh highly doubt it. Frozen Four title game's on ESPN in primetime. But anyways even if we add hockey, the FF would be a long way off.

[TheBisonator]

Meh highly doubt it. Frozen Four title game's on ESPN in primetime. But anyways even if we add hockey, the FF would be a long way off.

Dude, every NCAA college baseball postseason game is on ESPN. All the CWS is in primetime on ESPN.

[344Johnson]

FF is on Espn2. I dunno about CWS but even so, college baseball is pretty big, not nearly as "Nichey" if I can use that as a word.

[coldspot]

FF is on Espn2. I dunno about CWS but even so, college baseball is pretty big, not nearly as "Nichey" if I can use that as a word.

college baseball was on ESPN2 sunday afternoon, regular season games. cant say I ever saw any college hockey regular season games on espn/espn2.

[onbison09]

Dude, every NCAA college baseball postseason game is on ESPN. All the CWS is in primetime on ESPN.

He said selection show :hide:

[344Johnson]

......I will put this thread to a close right now.

Baseball>Hockey

We all agree yes? Ok, Good, fantabulous.

[scbison91]

......I will put this thread to a close right now.

Baseball>Hockey

We all agree yes? Ok, Good, fantabulous.

Ever watched a baseball game??? More fun watching paint dry.

[sambini]

Bison Baseball catch it whenever the weather permits it at Newman field.

[BlueBisonRock]

Ever watched a baseball game??? More fun watching paint dry.

You missed the boat with that retort!

Yep, have both watched and coached youth baseball. Suprisingly, its a thinking mans game. I would guess that is why you are having a problem grasping the concept . . . . . :duel:

Have some fun today sc. And, if you are interested, my kitchen needs some painting! Stop by and put in the time. You can have a great time watching the drying process. Afterwards, I will drive you over to Warsaw and buy you a beer at that new bar. ;)

[mgbison]

Bison Baseball catch it whenever the weather permits it at Newman field.

This is the best quote of the day and the main reason i started the thread. We can't play any homes games until the season is darn near over. If we were a school down south, I'd say baseball is the way to go. Or if we were out east, have a lacrosse team. I think you should have teams that fit your geographic footprint.

Also, who cares if hockey is s niche sport. It is extremely popular in the geographic area that ndsu is in. That is all that matters. Hockey is a niche sport, but what team in north Dakota draws the most fans. It's not bison football, and definitely not mens basketball. I think a reason most people are so against hockey is because und has it and they compete at a high level in it. Plus, there are only sixtyish teams so it increases the chance of being successful.

There is no interest in bison baseball. Even diehard bison fans don't care all that much. Look at how many posts are in the baseball thread as an example. Its because you can't see a home game until the season is over.

[BlueBisonRock]

This is the best quote of the day and the main reason i started the thread. We can't play any homes games until the season is darn near over. If we were a school down south, I'd say baseball is the way to go. Or if we were out east, have a lacrosse team. I think you should have teams that fit your geographic footprint.

Also, who cares if hockey is s niche sport. It is extremely popular in the geographic area that ndsu is in. That is all that matters. Hockey is a niche sport, but what team in north Dakota draws the most fans. It's not bison football, and definitely not mens basketball. I think a reason most people are so against hockey is because und has it and they compete at a high level in it. Plus, there are only sixtyish teams so it increases the chance of being successful.

There is no interest in bison baseball. Even diehard bison fans don't care all that much. Look at how many posts are in the baseball thread as an example. Its because you can't see a home game until the season is over.

What part of Maple Grove do you live in? When we were there our home was just north of Rice Lake. And, btw, I was told with pride that three of our neighbors had kids who did go to NDSU.

Now, what was the question again? Oh yes. Hockey or baseball. I vote baseball. There are no outdoor rinks available in the summer, but there are one hell of a lot of baseball fields around. Boys of summer you know. (I can't wait to head to one of the local fields and catch a game. Just get rid of this damnable snow first.)

[mgbison]

We live off the intersection of bass lake and lawndale.

I personally like MLB better than NHL, but would rather watch college hockey than college baseball. With that being said, i agree with the poster who said that baseball is boring. If the twins aren't playing, I have a hard time watching other teams.

[Gilley]

Fully fund the baseball program so they can go to California, Arizona, and Texas to recruit like softball, football, and every other sport can and does and see what happens. You will then have a program that is a perennial conference contender and have enough money to keep the Elgie's and Frenzels from going to Kansas and Arizona because our program could realistically make the tournament every year. ORU has been right on the edge of the CWS for years. SDSU's current roster only has 9 players from SD or MN. Now I am not saying completely abandon our recruiting base but you can pick up a couple key players from those areas that can make a difference in losing those close games like we have this year and winning them.


With hockey we wouldn't have to go to the south to find people, could be "local" talent.

[bisonpride]

With hockey we wouldn't have to go to the south to find people, could be "local" talent.

Yeah local talent!!!!

2011 UND roster- 27 total players
8 players from MN or ND (only 2 from ND)
13 from Canada
They even have a guy from California
Yup lots of locals.

NDSU baseball doesnt even have 1 guy from Cali right now. All but 7 players on a 35 man roster are from ND or MN.

[bisonballs33]

Yeah local talent!!!!

2011 UND roster- 27 total players
8 players from MN or ND (only 2 from ND)
13 from Canada
They even have a guy from California
Yup lots of locals.

NDSU baseball doesnt even have 1 guy from Cali right now. All but 7 players on a 35 man roster are from ND or MN.

And NDSU baseball stinks almost every year!! Canada is pretty darn close to North Dakota and eight players from MN and ND is pretty good. 21 of 27 either from MN/ND or Canada. That keeps it pretty local in my eyes and they can be successful with the local talent.

And even more, Zane Gothberg and Colten St. Clair both played for the Fargo Force and will play at UND. St. Clair is from Cali, but now has ties to ND.

I'm not picking sides because there are too many at NDSU that don't want to see any change, but I'd rather have a few locals make a team successful and have fans in the stands than have a bunch of locals who normally stink and a product no one watches.

[TheBisonator]

And NDSU baseball stinks almost every year!! Canada is pretty darn close to North Dakota and eight players from MN and ND is pretty good. 21 of 27 either from MN/ND or Canada. That keeps it pretty local in my eyes and they can be successful with the local talent.

And even more, Zane Gothberg and Colten St. Clair both played for the Fargo Force and will play at UND. St. Clair is from Cali, but now has ties to ND.

I'm not picking sides because there are too many at NDSU that don't want to see any change, but I'd rather have a few locals make a team successful and have fans in the stands than have a bunch of locals who normally stink and a product no one watches.

If it comes at the expense of football and basketball, I don't want it.

And trust me, it will. We're not the Texas Longhorns. We don't have $100's coming out our asses like they do. Hockey WILL exist to the detriment of our FB and BB programs if it's ever established.