Bill to keep Sioux nickname

[GradBison]

This is too comical:


Fargo Rep. Al Carlson's bill says UND and the Board of Higher Education have to stop plans to drop the nickname.

http://www.inforum.com/event/article/id/304507/

Edit: oops just saw the thread in smack.

[North Side]

Whats Al Carlson doing?????? Did he go to UND, or what?

[THEsocalledfan]

Carlson is doing the right thing, although his Bill will likely need amending. Many of us, including Bison like myself, want the nickname to stay. The faculty elite of the NCAA are pissing on the voters of Spirit Lake. They, who think are stopping hate, are making it worse by caving to the vocal minority as proved at Spirit Lake. Personally, I liked the other draft bill better, which states:

"A second bill draft circulating Monday, prepared for Rep. David Monson, R-Osnabrock, a former speaker of the House, would prohibit UND from retiring the nickname and logo unless the State Board receives written notice from leaders of the Standing Rock Sioux Tribe and the Spirit Lake Tribe “indicating the members of each tribe have voted in a tribal referendum to revoke the permission granted to the university to use the nickname and logo.”"

That would seem to make a lot of sense. If Standing Rock votes against it, I will fully support retiring the name.

The only question, I have, is if the bill passes, and Standing Rock refuses to have a referendum, what would be the cost to the state and UND? That may sway my mind a bit, but I love anyone who gives the NCAA the bird.

However, that may be unlikely as those who want the nickname to end, would be forced to gamble on the referendum. Otherwise, they have to live with it.

[blackhills]

I think it is great that Carlson stepped up to the plate. This is not a Sioux vs. Bison issue, it's a "Don't screw with North Dakota" issue. As Carlson said, people want to keep the logo. I did get a chuckle out of the quote in the paper...

Carlson said he wouldn’t be acting as a UND booster.
“I’m a Bison,” the NDSU graduate said, laughing.

Gotta give the guy credit, he is doing what he thinks is best for the state, and that is giving the NCAA the finger.

[Notorious]

I think it is great that Carlson stepped up to the plate. This is not a Sioux vs. Bison issue, it's a "Don't screw with North Dakota" issue. As Carlson said, people want to keep the logo. I did get a chuckle out of the quote in the paper...

Carlson said he wouldn’t be acting as a UND booster.
“I’m a Bison,” the NDSU graduate said, laughing.

Gotta give the guy credit, he is doing what he thinks is best for the state, and that is giving the NCAA the finger.

Agree somewhat your last line, but what happens when this becomes an embarrassment nationally, or hinders teh und in scheduling*, or costs taxpayers $5M to f**k with....?




*playoffs?......playoffs?....don't talk about playoffs!!!

[aces1180]

Carlson is doing the right thing, although his Bill will likely need amending. Many of us, including Bison like myself, want the nickname to stay. The faculty elite of the NCAA are pissing on the voters of Spirit Lake. They, who think are stopping hate, are making it worse by caving to the vocal minority as proved at Spirit Lake. Personally, I liked the other draft bill better, which states:

"A second bill draft circulating Monday, prepared for Rep. David Monson, R-Osnabrock, a former speaker of the House, would prohibit UND from retiring the nickname and logo unless the State Board receives written notice from leaders of the Standing Rock Sioux Tribe and the Spirit Lake Tribe “indicating the members of each tribe have voted in a tribal referendum to revoke the permission granted to the university to use the nickname and logo.”"

That would seem to make a lot of sense. If Standing Rock votes against it, I will fully support retiring the name.

The only question, I have, is if the bill passes, and Standing Rock refuses to have a referendum, what would be the cost to the state and UND? That may sway my mind a bit, but I love anyone who gives the NCAA the bird.

However, that may be unlikely as those who want the nickname to end, would be forced to gamble on the referendum. Otherwise, they have to live with it.

Is your support of the nickname based on being anti-PC or do you support UND?

I for one am not offended by the name itself, but the school it is associated with. In my eyes, anything bad that happens to that school is more enjoyment for me.

[aces1180]

I think it is great that Carlson stepped up to the plate. This is not a Sioux vs. Bison issue, it's a "Don't screw with North Dakota" issue. As Carlson said, people want to keep the logo. I did get a chuckle out of the quote in the paper...

Carlson said he wouldn’t be acting as a UND booster.
“I’m a Bison,” the NDSU graduate said, laughing.

Gotta give the guy credit, he is doing what he thinks is best for the state, and that is giving the NCAA the finger.

I wrote this earlier...He may have a degree from NDSU, but he is not and will never be a Bison.

[THEsocalledfan]

Agree somewhat your last line, but what happens when this becomes an embarrassment nationally, or hinders teh und in scheduling*, or costs taxpayers $5M to f**k with....?




*playoffs?......playoffs?....don't talk about playoffs!!!

Yep, your concerns are valid, and will need to be carefully considered. However, if the bill passed saying the same won't be retired without a Standing Rock referendum, the NCAA will look pretty bad if somehow, UND and North Dakota in general can get the national media to pick up on the story and get some major press. Enough bad publicity, and the NCAA may be willing to relook at the agreement and amend to fit this idea.

Make no mistake on this: UND is being held hostage by the faculty elite of the NCAA. If you haven't heard my ramblings on this before, I had a certain President type, who fully thought UND was out to desparage native people and tell me that they made a deal with Satan in building the Engelstad arena. At that point, I decided I fully despise all of this ilk who are willing to sacrifice the will of the people, even those they think they are helping, to advance their own agenda. They are so sure of themselves and think that they know everything. They want to mold the world into their little utopia they think can be achieved......

[aces1180]

Yep, your concerns are valid, and will need to be carefully considered. However, if the bill passed saying the same won't be retired without a Standing Rock referendum, the NCAA will look pretty bad if somehow, UND and North Dakota in general can get the national media to pick up on the story and get some major press. Enough bad publicity, and the NCAA may be willing to relook at the agreement and amend to fit this idea.

Make not mistake on this: UND is being held hostage by the faculty elite of the NCAA. If you haven't heard my ramblings on this before, I had a certain President type, who fully thought UND was out to desparage native people and tell me that they made a deal with Satan in building the Engelstad arena. At that point, I decided I fully despise all of this ilk who are willing to sacrifice the will of the people, even those they think they are helping, to advance their own agenda. They are so sure of themselves and think that they know everything. They want to mold the world into their little utopia they think can be achieved......

You do realize that there are people on UND's campus who have been opposed to the nickname for years, even before the NCAA came into play? Not everyone in ND is in favor of the logo and nickname.

[THEsocalledfan]

Is your support of the nickname based on being anti-PC or do you support UND?

I for one am not offended by the name itself, but the school it is associated with. In my eyes, anything bad that happens to that school is more enjoyment for me.

It is the utter, and willful subversion of democracy that I hate. While I can't stand UND, I am hoping the legislature helps them land a solid body punch to the NCAA whom I despise more.

Remember, these are the same morons who make NDSU go through a 5 years transition.....

[THEsocalledfan]

You do realize that there are people on UND's campus who have been opposed to the nickname for years, even before the NCAA came into play? Not everyone in ND is in favor of the logo and nickname.

Ask the Spirit Nation what they think, then get back to me.

[aces1180]

Ask the Spirit Nation what they think, then get back to me.

Like I said, not everyone wants the nickname...What about Standing Rock? Oh yeah, they didn't think it was important enough to vote on the subject.

[THEsocalledfan]

I wrote this earlier...He may have a degree from NDSU, but he is not and will never be a Bison.

Glad to see you have an open mind. I would be a co-sponsor on this bill. Does that eliminate me from being a Bison?

[aces1180]

It is the utter, and willful subversion of democracy that I hate. While I can't stand UND, I am hoping the legislature helps them land a solid body punch to the NCAA whom I despise more.

Remember, these are the same morons who make NDSU go through a 5 years transition.....

Fair enough...However, I think what people are forgetting (not you specifically), is that this will have to pass the House, Senate and get approval from the governor...It seems like this bill is symbolic in nature and will never make it past the committees IMO.

[THEsocalledfan]

Like I said, not everyone wants the nickname...What about Standing Rock? Oh yeah, they didn't think it was important enough to vote on the subject.

So, then UND must accept the vocal minority?

You know, I don't like that avatar you have, so you better change it. Now, you are going to do it, right? You have to. I told you you have to.

[THEsocalledfan]

Fair enough...However, I think what people are forgetting (not you specifically), is that this will have to pass the House, Senate and get approval from the governor...It seems like this bill is symbolic in nature and will never make it past the committees IMO.

Here, I clearly agree with you. Kind of like the real healthcare bill at the fed level, although this may have a better shot if the right deep pocketed folks get involved and a carefully crafted bill emerges.

Again, no doubt to have any chance, very careful language and crafting will be required.

By the way, this is great politics this guy. Name is in the news, getting lots of pub.....

[THEsocalledfan]

In my opinion, it takes a lot of your credibility away.

And I also want to restart the football game. So that make me even less credible?

By the way, who broke the news on this board that USD was for sure going Summit/MVFC at the last minute?

[aces1180]

So, then UND must accept the vocal minority?

You know, I don't like that avatar you have, so you better change it. Now, you are going to do it, right? You have to. I told you you have to.

Well, considering it affects their tribe directly, UND should have to follow the requirements set forth by the NCAA.

And my avatar is changed.

[met1990]

It is the utter, and willful subversion of democracy that I hate. While I can't stand UND, I am hoping the legislature helps them land a solid body punch to the NCAA whom I despise more.

Remember, these are the same morons who make NDSU go through a 5 years transition.....

Not trying to pick a fight here, and I can see good points on both sides. However, one point people never mention is that no one is forcing NDSU, Und or any other school to be members of the NCAA. If you want to participate in the NCAA, you have to play by their rules, whether you like them or not (and I can think of a bunch I don't like).

[aces1180]

And I also want to restart the football game. So that make me even less credible?

By the way, who broke the news on this board that USD was for sure going Summit/MVFC at the last minute?

No, I agree that the game should be renewed.

And my comment was out of line...I apologize.

I just don't understand how a Bison fan would want to support UND in any way.

[Notorious]

Not trying to pick a fight here, and I can see good points on both sides. However, one point people never mention is that no one is forcing NDSU, Und or any other school to be members of the NCAA. If you want to participate in the NCAA, you have to play by their rules, whether you like them or not (and I can think of a bunch I don't like).

Exactly...and to the point about publicity for Carlson....be careful what you wish for...he may not survive this.

Now, if only he would draft a bill to legislate a football game between teh und and NDSU.

[bisonsupporter]

I'm wondering how all of this is going to effect recruiting and scheduling for all sports? If I was a UND recruit, would I want to go to a school that can not figure out their own nickname? How much of this whining and complaining about the nickname and logo is costing the university revenue?

Are either of these bills constitutional? If I were a UND fan maybe I would have a different take on the subject, but a ruling has been made, get over it. They could have had a new logo and nickname for people to get behind. They could be selling merchandise with the new logo and nickname and making money, and not spending who knows what insane amount of money just to complain.

UND would be better off by announcing a new logo and nickname. After a couple months of complaining people would get over it. Does a logo or nickname really affect if you are a supporter or fan of a university?

[80ALUM]

What I find interesting is all the support shown for the State Board of Higher Education by those who are anti-NDSU as long as the Board is reprimanding NDSU for their spending mishaps but yet will not support the Board's position on the nickname situation.
Seems like the Board's authority is only respected when ruling in favor of UND.

[THEsocalledfan]

Not trying to pick a fight here, and I can see good points on both sides. However, one point people never mention is that no one is forcing NDSU, Und or any other school to be members of the NCAA. If you want to participate in the NCAA, you have to play by their rules, whether you like them or not (and I can think of a bunch I don't like).

Agree with this, but the NCAA is so big, you can also argue that it is not very "voluntary." I admit that this is what killed UND in court.

[THEsocalledfan]

Well, considering it affects their tribe directly, UND should have to follow the requirements set forth by the NCAA.

Thanks for the apology, but your comment above implies that the NCAA is speaking for the tribes. This is where I clearly disagree. The NCAA is a group of faculty elite presidents/chancellors who want to remake America in their politically correct image. I even wonder how many even have any Native blood? This idea they are speaking for the tribes cracks me up to no end.

I have come around that the tribes should be able to decide their own fate, but Standing Rock does not seem to be getting any chance to do so. Something fishy is going on with that council that they will not even allow folks to vote? If they are so sure the tribe is opposed, prove it and I will sink into my little hole. That is what Spirit Lake did, and the silent majority was finally able to speak their will.

[THEsocalledfan]

Exactly...and to the point about publicity for Carlson....be careful what you wish for...he may not survive this.


Why would he not survive? You think we is misreading his tea leaves? Looks to me he is hitting a homerun.

[Ferd]

It was my understanding that UND, the SBOHE, and the State of North Dakota settled the lawsuit by agreeing to specific conditions. Agreement from all of the tribes was not received in the allocated time so we must change the nickname... something that is happening now.

While I could care less about the name, and I agree the NCAA executive board is ramrodding this thing, I would hope that our Legislators would spend their limited session time dealing with some of the real, critical problems affecting our state.

But that's just my opinion.

YMMV

[NorthernBison]

Agree with this, but the NCAA is so big, you can also argue that it is not very "voluntary." I admit that this is what killed UND in court.

The case was ultimately settled out of court.

So, the NCAA settled in good faith with the State Board of Higher Education in 2007 after both sides spent millions of dollars on legal fees. The SBoHE was Represented by the North Dakota Attorney General who is coincidentally still the Attorney General. THe SBoHE is ultimately responsible to the Legislature right? But that same Legislature had no official problem with the settlement until now? The Iraqi Senate seems more organized than these clowns in Bismarck.

If this stupid bill were to pass and the State proceeded to file suit against the NCAA, who would represent the State? Probably the AG. What exactly does he say when the NCAA pulls out the settlement agreement that he helped draft and probably signed?

Must be fun to be a lawyer.

BTW, the second bill by Monson is even better. It looks like he is actually trying to force SR to vote. That might not be a good idea.

[Notorious]

Why would he not survive? You think we is misreading his tea leaves? Looks to me he is hitting a homerun.

I just think there will be some negative backlash. While I agree with your underlying arguement, I don't think this is the particular issue to "lead the charge" for democracy????

More negative, than positive, will ultilmately come from this....I think.

[tony]

Why would he not survive? You think we is misreading his tea leaves? Looks to me he is hitting a homerun.

Pfft. It's grandstanding. I suppose there is about a 1% chance that UND will "win" this fight and thus ensure another 50 years of controversy but it will cost millions of dollars.

Here's the problem I have:

Tom Clifford said that if the Tribal Councils formally objected to the nickname, then UND would have no ethical alternative but to drop the nickname. Over the next decade, every Sioux tribal council in the west asked UND to drop the nickname, but the new administration's position was that the tribes had no say and that dropping the nickname was entirely UND's decision. So UND put together a committee and put the decision in their hands. The committee recommended that UND drop the nickname so Kupchella went to the SBoHE to tell them but somebody told Ralph and Ralph browbeat the SBoHE into cutting Kupchella off and telling him that the decision was no longer UND's; instead it was the SBoHE's. The SBoHE said that "We say the nickname should stay." At NO POINT during any of this was putting the decision into the tribes' hands even considered. That only happened AFTER the NCAA stepped in. So, actually, the NCAA got nickname supporters to agree that the tribes had a say. To me, that's a good thing, and it would NEVER have happened without the NCAA stepping in.

Of course, the settlement didn't specify what would constitute tribal approval. The nickname people knew they'd never get approval from the tribal councils so they went with the popular vote. At Spirit Lake, "only" 35% wanted the nickname gone. At Standing Rock, the Tribal Council just repeated that their position hadn't changed.

BTW, a simple majority vote without and terms of agreement spelled out is not a permanent solution. That should be clear to anybody with adequate blood flow to their brain. Maybe a simple majority could instruct the tribal councils to negotiate a settlement but in no way is it a permanent solution.

FACT: UND could have solved this by spending the first 35 years negotiating a settlement with the tribes. However, their position was:



Dear Tribes,

LOL! STFU!

Smell ya later,

UND


Now these guys want to renege on the settlement with the NCAA?

But does Skarphol really want the State of North Dakota to renege on a settlement? Or is he using this as part of his ongoing campaign to get rid of the SBoHE and have Higher Ed put in direct control of a committee that he just happens to run?

Don't kid yourselves: This is politics at its very worst.

[THEsocalledfan]

Pfft. It's grandstanding. I suppose there is about a 1% chance that UND will "win" this fight and thus ensure another 50 years of controversy but it will cost millions of dollars.

Here's the problem I have:

Tom Clifford said that if the Tribal Councils formally objected to the nickname, then UND would have no ethical alternative but to drop the nickname. Over the next decade, every Sioux tribal council in the west asked UND to drop the nickname, but the new administration's position was that the tribes had no say and that dropping the nickname was entirely UND's decision. So UND put together a committee and put the decision in their hands. The committee recommended that UND drop the nickname so Kupchella went to the SBoHE to tell them but somebody told Ralph and Ralph browbeat the SBoHE into cutting Kupchella off and telling him that the decision was no longer UND's; instead it was the SBoHE's. The SBoHE said that "We say the nickname should stay." At NO POINT during any of this was putting the decision into the tribes' hands even considered. That only happened AFTER the NCAA stepped in. So, actually, the NCAA got nickname supporters to agree that the tribes had a say. To me, that's a good thing, and it would NEVER have happened without the NCAA stepping in.

Of course, the settlement didn't specify what would constitute tribal approval. The nickname people knew they'd never get approval from the tribal councils so they went with the popular vote. At Spirit Lake, "only" 35% wanted the nickname gone. At Standing Rock, the Tribal Council just repeated that their position hadn't changed and that they wouldn't allow a vote.

BTW, a simple majority vote without and terms of agreement spelled out is not a permanent solution. That should be clear to anybody with adequate blood flow to their brain. Maybe a simple majority could instruct the tribal councils to negotiate a settlement.

FACT: UND could have solved this by spending the first 45 years negotiating a settlement with the tribes. However, their position was:



Now these guys want to renege on the settlement with the NCAA.

But does Skarphol really want the State of North Dakota to renege on a settlement? Or is he using this as part of his ongoing campaign to get rid of the SBoHE and have Higher Ed put in direct control of a committee that he just happens to run?

This is politics at its very worst.

I cannot comment on how accurate your summary is, but how can one have a deadline that does not allow the tribe to vote.

I had already conceeded that I had come around that the tribe should be able to have say, and would say this is the only good that has come from the NCAA meddling. However, I really don't think they give a damn what the majority of natives think. Now, we do live in a republic, be there are times that the pressure on elected officials make a direct democracy necessary, and this is a classic example. My problem, actually, has very little to do in how UND has handled the situation; just where we are now.

I have also made it clear that the costs of continue to fight this would need to be carefully considered before any vote.

[phpguru]

There are far more important issues that the legislature should be dealing with right now...

Explosive growth and lacking infrastructure in NW ND
Flood/Diversion for Fargo/Moorhead metro
Growing our state economy
Keeping our young talent in the state
Expanding airline service
Improving technology infrastructure
Education funding
..etc

But the "nickname" fight is more important than all these? Please.
Al Carlson just lost my vote. (There's no way he's a true Bison - he just happened to graduate from NDSU).

[tony]

I cannot comment on how accurate your summary is, but how can one have a deadline that does not allow the tribe to vote.


It's very accurate... er, except for the 45 years deal. The controversy has only been around for a little over 40 years. :) I edited my post.

[CAS4127]

In response to my statement that UND should change nickname/mascot/logo now, during the transition phase, and come out it with something recognizable that could be marketed, I was told by a huge Sioux supporter/fan late this Fall that "it ain't over yet", with a big smile on his face. I had no idea what he meant, but, apparantly, this is it.

Can't fix stupid, as the saying goes.

[NorthernBison]

The settlement simply indicated that approval from the Tribes had to be received in order to keep the nickname and logo. The NCAA has always taken the position that the Tribal Councils speak for the Tribe.

People can get all irate that SR Tribal Council refused to let the members vote. Fine. But, it's almost more obscene for us outsiders to dictate to the Council how to run their Reservation. We have zero business telling them they have to do anything.

At SR, they also elected a new Tribal Chair since the settlement and even he has refused to do anything more than reiterate their opposition to the nickname. An opposition that is backed by a resolution voted on by the Council many moons ago.

[Green-N-Gold]

Thanks for the apology, but your comment above implies that the NCAA is speaking for the tribes. This is where I clearly disagree. The NCAA is a group of faculty elite presidents/chancellors who want to remake America in their politically correct image. I even wonder how many even have any Native blood? This idea they are speaking for the tribes cracks me up to no end.

I have come around that the tribes should be able to decide their own fate, but Standing Rock does not seem to be getting any chance to do so. Something fishy is going on with that council that they will not even allow folks to vote? If they are so sure the tribe is opposed, prove it and I will sink into my little hole. That is what Spirit Lake did, and the silent majority was finally able to speak their will.

So now it is the responsibility of the State of ND to force a vote? I'm pretty sure that the Tribal Council has stated several times that their tribal gov't structure doesn't include the means for a referendum. If that is the case, should the State be able to change tribal government just so they can vote on something as trivial as a collegiate nickname??

[NorthernBison]

So now it is the responsibility of the State of ND to force a vote? I'm pretty sure that the Tribal Council has stated several times that their tribal gov't structure doesn't include the means for a referendum. If that is the case, should the State be able to change tribal government just so they can vote on something as trivial as a collegiate nickname??

After talking to some people familiar with Reservation politics, tribal votes are unusual. Their standard procedure is for the elected Council to make decisions. That's why Tribal elections are so important. There is a great deal of power vested in the Council.

Historically, Council Members take their responsibilities very seriously and consider the good of the Tribe. Nickname supporters point to the petitions presented calling for a vote of the members. Well, there were also petitions presented at the same time that asked the council to avoid voting. These actually had more signatures.

The Council decision to not vote is heavily influenced by this conflict. Essentially, they prefer to have the Tribe's position decided by their own careful consideration than a vote that could be influenced by outside interests that don't necessarily consider the tradition of the tribe.

[Tatanka]

As a taxpayer in the state of North Dakota, I find it deplorable that the governing body is using valuable time, energy, and resources on this piffle.

[bisonaudit]

People can get all irate that SR Tribal Council refused to let the members vote. Fine. But, it's almost more obscene for us outsiders to dictate to the Council how to run their Reservation. We have zero business telling them they have to do anything.

At SR, they also elected a new Tribal Chair since the settlement and even he has refused to do anything more than reiterate their opposition to the nickname. An opposition that is backed by a resolution voted on by the Council many moons ago.

^^^This^^^

[tony]

The bill introduced by Carlson gets around by this problem by saying that the tribes don't have any say whatsoever in the nickname.

[MN_BISON]

Carlson is on with Hammer now.

[CAS4127]

The bill introduced by Carlson gets around by this problem by saying that the tribes don't have any say whatsoever in the nickname.

But the NCAA does. That said, given UND's football schedule, perhaps Rep. Carlson knows more than we think, as in UND going to the NAIA.

[tony]

Carlson is making his case that the Legislature should take over for the State Board of Higher Ed right now.

North Dakota's State Fossils: Legislature (Corpolites).

[Green-N-Gold]

Per SS.com, both parties (UND, NCAA) already signed a legally binding agreement that since both tribes didn't approve the name by November 30th, the issue is over. I doubt the NCAA will bend much on this being they have what they want and the name is already in the process of being totally gone.

[bisonaudit]

The bill introduced by Carlson gets around by this problem by saying that the tribes don't have any say whatsoever in the nickname.

The trouble with that arguement is that the settlement with the NCAA gave them a say.

Carlson doesn't like the answer so his solution is to challenge the validity of the State Board of Higher Education? That's a constitutional question. The State Board is enshrined in the state constitution to prevent political mucking around.

An excerpt from here: http://ndus.edu/makers/procedures/sbhe/default.asp?PID=189&SID=2

"The people of North Dakota created the Board through the state Constitution to ensure the institutions and their employees were protected from political interference. Recognizing the legitimacy and importance of such protection and believing each institution properly retains substantial responsibility for its own affairs, the Board and the system honor the integrity of each institution and its people."

So if Carlson wants to do this I belief his measure has to pass through the legislature and then be ratified by a majority in a popular vote. Probably impossible on the time line we're talking about. He'd have to get a stay from a judge.

Grandstanding. He's saying. "Now that you've already lost, let me do everything I can for you."

[roadwarrior]

Great find bisonaudit. Maybe you should send that on to Mr Carlson.

[THEsocalledfan]

"The people of North Dakota created the Board through the state Constitution to ensure the institutions and their employees were protected from political interference. Recognizing the legitimacy and importance of such protection and believing each institution properly retains substantial responsibility for its own affairs, the Board and the system honor the integrity of each institution and its people."

That is the best argument to this going forward I have heard. If the legislature has no juristiction on the matter, it needs to be dropped. I would think it would be the same with fixing the football game issue.

With that said, if the legilature wanted to be completely nasty, they could pull funding of higher ed, but no way that could fly politically.

[THEsocalledfan]

So now it is the responsibility of the State of ND to force a vote? I'm pretty sure that the Tribal Council has stated several times that their tribal gov't structure doesn't include the means for a referendum. If that is the case, should the State be able to change tribal government just so they can vote on something as trivial as a collegiate nickname??

Even though I have come around for a completely different reason (the autonomy of the SBOHE), the ammended bill circulating did not mandate a vote. It just said if the tribe did not want it, a vote must be taken. That vote is the only way to put this to bed once and for all. The resentment will go on and on.

It is also commical that some suggested a vote is more prone to outside interferance than getting to a few council members? Hello? Did anyone at all pay attention to what happened in Spirit Lake? As I stated, if the tribe members voted against it, I would be done with it. I WAS done with it until that Spirit Lake vote, and it completely changed my thiking that I had always been right about the silent majority.

Again, the SBOHE autonomy thing is hard to get past, so I would probably vote against this if a legislator.

[bisonaudit]

With that said, if the legilature wanted to be completely nasty, they could pull funding of higher ed, but no way that could fly politically.

This would be very interesting because the Constitution actually requires the Legistature to provide "adequate funds" to the State Board of Higher Education.

I don't know what adequate funds are but I'm pretty sure that if zero passed the Legislature that the SBoHE would seek legal redress.

[aces1180]

The trouble with that arguement is that the settlement with the NCAA gave them a say.

Carlson doesn't like the answer so his solution is to challenge the validity of the State Board of Higher Education? That's a constitutional question. The State Board is enshrined in the state constitution to prevent political mucking around.

An excerpt from here: http://ndus.edu/makers/procedures/sbhe/default.asp?PID=189&SID=2

"The people of North Dakota created the Board through the state Constitution to ensure the institutions and their employees were protected from political interference. Recognizing the legitimacy and importance of such protection and believing each institution properly retains substantial responsibility for its own affairs, the Board and the system honor the integrity of each institution and its people."

So if Carlson wants to do this I belief his measure has to pass through the legislature and then be ratified by a majority in a popular vote. Probably impossible on the time line we're talking about. He'd have to get a stay from a judge.

Grandstanding. He's saying. "Now that you've already lost, let me do everything I can for you."

Here's an article which shows your research.

http://www.grandforksherald.com/event/article/id/189726/

[bisonaudit]

the ammended bill circulating did not mandate a vote. It just said if the tribe did not want it, a vote must be taken. That vote is the only way to put this to bed once and for all. The resentment will go on and on.


1) Some people are going to be resentful no matter what. That can't be helped.

2) The settlement between UND and the NCAA requires that both approve in order for UND to retain the nickname. The ammended bill says exactly the opposite (both must express disapproval in order for the NCAA to get its way). No judge should void the settlement and substitute the political judgement of parties with no direct standing in the dispute for that previously negotiated by the two parties directly involved. Requiring an affirmation from both tribes was either the best UND could get or they needed better lawyers.

[CAS4127]

1) Some people are going to be resentful no matter what. That can't be helped.

2) The settlement between UND and the NCAA requires that both approve in order for UND to retain the nickname. The ammended bill says exactly the opposite (both must express disapproval in order for the NCAA to get its way). No judge should void the settlement and substitute the political judgement of parties with no direct standing in the dispute for that previously negotiated by the two parties directly involved. Requiring an affirmation from both tribes was either the best UND could get or they needed better lawyers.

FYI, settlement agreements are are held by ND Courts to be legally enforceable contracts. Carlson is obviously an idiot looking for attention, much like one member of this forum!

[Notorious]

FYI, settlement agreements are are held by ND Courts to be legally enforceable contracts. Carlson is obviously an idiot looking for attention, much like one member of this forum!

I resent that comment! But do agree that Carlson is an idiot.

[aces1180]

FYI, settlement agreements are are held by ND Courts to be legally enforceable contracts. Carlson is obviously an idiot looking for attention, much like one member of this forum!

Leave TAB alone!

http://jamiedubs.com/fuckflickr/data/meme-prints/leave-britney-alone.jpg

[The_Sicatoka]

The settlement (http://www.ag.nd.gov/NCAA/OrderofJudgmentforDismissal.pdf) between UND and the NCAA included a court ruling where the suit brought by UND was dismissed with prejudice*.

I just don't see how this'll fly as "the State of North Dakota" (link) is a named party to the suit and settlement and any judge will see that and wonder why the Legislature is effectively reneging.

I believe you folks may be onto the reality here when you speculate this is another attempt by the Legislature to short-circuit the Higher Education Roundtable and ultimately weaken the ND State Board of Higher Education to their own benefit. (This might be the brightest insight I've ever seen on Bisonville. {applause} )


* "with prejudice" in legal-ese means UND can not re-file the suit.

[tony]

Douple was proven right. UND is going to continue to wear this albatross around their neck, whether they want to or not.

Reneging on an agreement might result in things that almost nobody wants to see happen, most of them bad for UND.

Anyway, I sure wasn't really impressed by Carlson's "Let's just pass the bill and worry about the consequences afterwards" attitude.

Where was the Legislature in 1970? Where were they in 1980? 1990? 2000? October, 2007? 2010? Most of the guys there have been around since the glacier receded... of course, that caught them by surprise too.

[CAS4127]

The settlement (http://www.ag.nd.gov/NCAA/OrderofJudgmentforDismissal.pdf) between UND and the NCAA included a court ruling where the suit brought by UND was dismissed with prejudice*.

I just don't see how this'll fly as "the State of North Dakota" (link) is a named party to the suit and settlement and any judge will see that and wonder why the Legislature is effectively reneging.

I believe you folks may be onto the reality here when you speculate this is another attempt by the Legislature to short-circuit the Higher Education Roundtable and ultimately weaken the ND State Board of Higher Education to their own benefit. (This might be the brightest insight I've ever seen on Bisonville. {applause} )


* "with prejudice" in legal-ese means UND can not re-file the suit.

But that does not prevent the NCAA from seeking Court enforcement of the settlement agreement--just sayin and you probably understand that.

BTW, my ONLY interest in this is that I want it over so that all of my friends who are Sioux fans will quit effing bringing this up everytime they consume more than two beers. The issue must just be sitting right under their skin festering and festering and just waiting to pop open when inhibitions become even slightly lowered!!!

[bisonaudit]

I just don't see how this'll fly as "the State of North Dakota" (link) is a named party to the suit and settlement and any judge will see that and wonder why the Legislature is effectively reneging.

I believe you folks may be onto the reality here when you speculate this is another attempt by the Legislature to short-circuit the Higher Education Roundtable and ultimately weaken the ND State Board of Higher Education to their own benefit. (This might be the brightest insight I've ever seen on Bisonville. {applause} )

OK, so now I think that even the Constitutional route would be interesting legally. Because The State of North Dakota is party to the settlement and then, after the fact, The State of North Dakota is attempting to change their Constitution in order to circumvent a legal settlement they've already agreed to. Fun.

Politically I think it's pretty interesting to see a group of legislators latch onto the fact that there's another governing body (SBoHE) that's less popular than they are. It's questionable whether or not they can win on the Nickname even with the most agressive Constitutional tactics, but if they succeeded in ending the SBoHE what would that mean? They'd gain more control over Higher Education but they'd lose a political punching bag. Are they serious about this or is this just another chance for some to throw hay makers at the SBoHE? If they are serious about it and happen to succeed it's just going to ramp up the GF v Fargo issues the East/West issues and the urban rural issues even more. Don't see much good coming out of that.

Killing the SBoHE probably wouldn't even let them close schools because I think they're all still named in the Constitution individually.

[NDSUstudent]

The legislature taking over for the SBOHE would be a disaster, that is for sure.

[Answer Guy]

Reneging on an agreement might result in things that almost nobody wants to see happen, most of them bad for UND.



I know you guys enjoy bashing UND, but does anyone honestly believe this is coming from the administration at UND?

Seems to me like Mr. Carlson likes grandstanding and seeing Bisonville's shorts in a bunch.

[CAS4127]

I know you guys enjoy bashing UND, but does anyone honestly believe this is coming from the administration at UND?

Seems to me like Mr. Carlson likes grandstanding and seeing Bisonville's shorts in a bunch.

Answer to #1: No.

Response to paragraph #2: Yes on first portion; "what the hell are you talking about?" on the latter

[BlueBisonRock]

I know you guys enjoy bashing UND, but does anyone honestly believe this is coming from the administration at UND?

Seems to me like Mr. Carlson likes grandstanding and seeing Bisonville's shorts in a bunch.

Hell yeah! This is a step in a subversive plot established long ago by the man with two first names and his croney, the man who was not available. And even though Mr. Carlson (Lakes just refers to him as b****) is a jonny come lately, his third cousin twice removed did spend a semester at UND and did pass out at numerous hockey games thus forever tieing Carlson to the GFCCC.

Come on now AG, follow the threads in this complex and long standing plot!!!

Answer Guy? AG? NDSU Aggies? There must also be a long standing connection with you and this fine institution. We will need to start treating you much better on this board knowing that your heart is with the Bison!

Crap, I just disagreed with CAS! Now I will be on his s#!+ list and will need to suffer along with TAB during tailgating.

[Answer Guy]

Crap, I just disagreed with CAS! Now I will be on his s#!+ list and will need to suffer along with TAB during tailgating.

If you're tailgating with Tranny, you are suffering enough.:p

[Answer Guy]

Response to paragraph #2: Yes on first portion; "what the hell are you talking about?" on the latter

50% of the time you don't know what I'm talking about.
100% of the time you don't know what you're talking about.:nod:

[CAS4127]

50% of the time you don't know what I'm talking about.
100% of the time you don't know what you're talking about.:nod:

That means that I understand you 50% of the time, and, given that you tend to talk twice as much as I during our conversations, that must mean that I understand things 75% of the time, which, when one includes in the equation the amount of alcohol you appear to consume, is not a bad percentage at all.*

*I didn't major in math btw!!

[Answer Guy]

*I didn't major in math btw!!

Hopefully not English either.*

*But your spelling seems better lately. What's up with that?

[CAS4127]

Hopefully not English either.*

*But your spelling seems better lately. What's up with that?

Lakes and I have been studying together, given that he has extra time do to his "towel boy" strike.

[onbison09]

I know you guys enjoy bashing UND, but does anyone honestly believe this is coming from the administration at UND?

Seems to me like Mr. Carlson likes grandstanding and seeing Bisonville's shorts in a bunch.

Honestly would UND's admin want this right now? Don't see how.

[tony]

Honestly would UND's admin want this right now? Don't see how.

No, they don't.

There are some people who don't even want UND's adminstration to run UND. That's why the whole issue got dumped in State Board of Higher Ed's lap in the first place.

[THEsocalledfan]

OK, so now I think that even the Constitutional route would be interesting legally. Because The State of North Dakota is party to the settlement and then, after the fact, The State of North Dakota is attempting to change their Constitution in order to circumvent a legal settlement they've already agreed to. Fun.

Politically I think it's pretty interesting to see a group of legislators latch onto the fact that there's another governing body (SBoHE) that's less popular than they are. It's questionable whether or not they can win on the Nickname even with the most agressive Constitutional tactics, but if they succeeded in ending the SBoHE what would that mean? They'd gain more control over Higher Education but they'd lose a political punching bag. Are they serious about this or is this just another chance for some to throw hay makers at the SBoHE? If they are serious about it and happen to succeed it's just going to ramp up the GF v Fargo issues the East/West issues and the urban rural issues even more. Don't see much good coming out of that.

Killing the SBoHE probably wouldn't even let them close schools because I think they're all still named in the Constitution individually.

From Carlson's perspective, this is WAY over thougtht. I agree this is grandstanding, but while many criticize, grandstanding is not always bad for politicians. You do it, get your name in the paper, and eventually walk away from the bill when reality hits......

By the way, I touched on it, but wouldn't the same constitutional issue prevent the legislature from meddling into Bison/Sioux football games?

[THEsocalledfan]

I believe you folks may be onto the reality here when you speculate this is another attempt by the Legislature to short-circuit the Higher Education Roundtable and ultimately weaken the ND State Board of Higher Education to their own benefit. (This might be the brightest insight I've ever seen on Bisonville. {applause} )

I agree it is probably good, but reality rains over here more than you realize. Like, when we talk about how screwed UND is being in Big Sky, even though we fully realize you had no choice, either.....

[Facts]

Pfft. It's grandstanding. I suppose there is about a 1% chance that UND will "win" this fight and thus ensure another 50 years of controversy but it will cost millions of dollars.

Here's the problem I have:

Tom Clifford said that if the Tribal Councils formally objected to the nickname, then UND would have no ethical alternative but to drop the nickname. Over the next decade, every Sioux tribal council in the west asked UND to drop the nickname, but the new administration's position was that the tribes had no say and that dropping the nickname was entirely UND's decision. So UND put together a committee and put the decision in their hands. The committee recommended that UND drop the nickname so Kupchella went to the SBoHE to tell them but somebody told Ralph and Ralph browbeat the SBoHE into cutting Kupchella off and telling him that the decision was no longer UND's; instead it was the SBoHE's. The SBoHE said that "We say the nickname should stay." At NO POINT during any of this was putting the decision into the tribes' hands even considered. That only happened AFTER the NCAA stepped in. So, actually, the NCAA got nickname supporters to agree that the tribes had a say. To me, that's a good thing, and it would NEVER have happened without the NCAA stepping in.

Of course, the settlement didn't specify what would constitute tribal approval. The nickname people knew they'd never get approval from the tribal councils so they went with the popular vote. At Spirit Lake, "only" 35% wanted the nickname gone. At Standing Rock, the Tribal Council just repeated that their position hadn't changed.

BTW, a simple majority vote without and terms of agreement spelled out is not a permanent solution. That should be clear to anybody with adequate blood flow to their brain. Maybe a simple majority could instruct the tribal councils to negotiate a settlement but in no way is it a permanent solution.

FACT: UND could have solved this by spending the first 35 years negotiating a settlement with the tribes. However, their position was:



Now these guys want to renege on the settlement with the NCAA?

But does Skarphol really want the State of North Dakota to renege on a settlement? Or is he using this as part of his ongoing campaign to get rid of the SBoHE and have Higher Ed put in direct control of a committee that he just happens to run?

Don't kid yourselves: This is politics at its very worst.

Tony, since I can't rep the same post more than once, tell the elf to give you a gazillion more rep points... POTY.

[NDSU1980]

Douple was proven right. UND is going to continue to wear this albatross around their neck, whether they want to or not.

Reneging on an agreement might result in things that almost nobody wants to see happen, most of them bad for UND.

Anyway, I sure wasn't really impressed by Carlson's "Let's just pass the bill and worry about the consequences afterwards" attitude.

Where was the Legislature in 1970? Where were they in 1980? 1990? 2000? October, 2007? 2010? Most of the guys there have been around since the glacier receded... of course, that caught them by surprise too.

Maybe UND wants to get kicked out of the BSC. Sounds like a plan.

[heckler]

For those that missed it and it's probably posted somewhere so here it is again...

http://www.740thefan.com/uploads/Al%20Carlson%20.mp3

[Buthockey]

Hell yeah! This is a step in a subversive plot established long ago by the man with two first names and his croney, the man who was not available. And even though Mr. Carlson (Lakes just refers to him as b****) is a jonny come lately, his third cousin twice removed did spend a semester at UND and did pass out at numerous hockey games thus forever tieing Carlson to the GFCCC.

Eh? I think I know that hoser!

[MAKBison]

Glad to see you have an open mind. I would be a co-sponsor on this bill. Does that eliminate me from being a Bison?

Nope, but it sure would prevent me from voting for you again. I for one am more concerned about roads, taxes levels, and other real issue verses messing with the NCAA. :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

[MAKBison]

From Carlson's perspective, this is WAY over thougtht. I agree this is grandstanding, but while many criticize, grandstanding is not always bad for politicians. You do it, get your name in the paper, and eventually walk away from the bill when reality hits......

By the way, I touched on it, but wouldn't the same constitutional issue prevent the legislature from meddling into Bison/Sioux football games?

Political grandstanding on this issue is just stupid….just another politician wasting our time and resources. I think most will see it this way...I hope anyways.

[ndsubison1]

Carlson is doing the right thing, although his Bill will likely need amending. Many of us, including Bison like myself, want the nickname to stay. The faculty elite of the NCAA are pissing on the voters of Spirit Lake. They, who think are stopping hate, are making it worse by caving to the vocal minority as proved at Spirit Lake. Personally, I liked the other draft bill better, which states:

"A second bill draft circulating Monday, prepared for Rep. David Monson, R-Osnabrock, a former speaker of the House, would prohibit UND from retiring the nickname and logo unless the State Board receives written notice from leaders of the Standing Rock Sioux Tribe and the Spirit Lake Tribe “indicating the members of each tribe have voted in a tribal referendum to revoke the permission granted to the university to use the nickname and logo.”"

That would seem to make a lot of sense. If Standing Rock votes against it, I will fully support retiring the name.

The only question, I have, is if the bill passes, and Standing Rock refuses to have a referendum, what would be the cost to the state and UND? That may sway my mind a bit, but I love anyone who gives the NCAA the bird.

However, that may be unlikely as those who want the nickname to end, would be forced to gamble on the referendum. Otherwise, they have to live with it.

doing the right thing? since when is it politicians jobs to be involved in stuff like this?

[ndsubison1]

I think it is great that Carlson stepped up to the plate. This is not a Sioux vs. Bison issue, it's a "Don't screw with North Dakota" issue. As Carlson said, people want to keep the logo. I did get a chuckle out of the quote in the paper...

Carlson said he wouldn’t be acting as a UND booster.
“I’m a Bison,” the NDSU graduate said, laughing.

Gotta give the guy credit, he is doing what he thinks is best for the state, and that is giving the NCAA the finger.

:rolleyes:

[ndsubison1]

It was my understanding that UND, the SBOHE, and the State of North Dakota settled the lawsuit by agreeing to specific conditions. Agreement from all of the tribes was not received in the allocated time so we must change the nickname... something that is happening now.

While I could care less about the name, and I agree the NCAA executive board is ramrodding this thing, I would hope that our Legislators would spend their limited session time dealing with some of the real, critical problems affecting our state.

But that's just my opinion.

YMMV

+1

(ten char)

[ndsubison1]

This is too comical:



http://www.inforum.com/event/article/id/304507/

Edit: oops just saw the thread in smack.

I thought Repubs were for smaller government :hide:

[DjKyRo]

Kind of funny how he goes "I'm a Bison guy," then uses "we" liberally when discussing the Sioux nickname.

Also heard some tony from NY in there. Nice work. :)

[Bison Dan]

Honestly would UND's admin want this right now? Don't see how.

100% sure that no one in UND's admin wants this issue now. They want it done so they can move forward. This could turn out to be a nightmare for UND. If the admin their doesn't get behind this movement they will be seen as wanting to dump the name and this could hurt UND even more. When you think about it this move is only a negative for UND. Nothing positive can come out of it. Maybe Carlson is a Bison after all?

[The_Sicatoka]

I agree it is probably good, but reality rains over here more than you realize. Like, when we talk about how screwed UND is being in Big Sky, even though we fully realize you had no choice, either.....

Allow me to point out again that the Big Sky (UND to NAz to west coast) has a smaller travel footprint than the Great West (NJ Tech to Houston Baptist to west coast).

[The_Sicatoka]

100% sure that no one in UND's admin wants this issue now. They want it done so they can move forward. This could turn out to be a nightmare for UND. If the admin their doesn't get behind this movement they will be seen as wanting to dump the name and this could hurt UND even more. When you think about it this move is only a negative for UND. Nothing positive can come out of it. Maybe Carlson is a Bison after all?

I have to agree with this assessment with the exception of the bold.

Yes, it's the longshot of longshots (one in a million or worse), but if this somehow resulted in a vote at Standing Rock that supported the moniker it would put the NCAA into a position where they'd need to either (a) remove UND from "the list" or (b) look like they really don't care about the wishes of the people they claim to be helping.

That'd be about the only possible positive (of course, the NCAA wouldn't see it that way).

[backpages]

I have to agree with this assessment with the exception of the bold.

Yes, it's the longshot of longshots (one in a million or worse), but if this somehow resulted in a vote at Standing Rock that supported the moniker it would put the NCAA into a position where they'd need to either (a) remove UND from "the list" or (b) look like they really don't care about the wishes of the people they claim to be helping.

That'd be about the only possible positive (of course, the NCAA wouldn't see it that way).

“The right to vote supersedes any and all of our other basic, human and constitutional rights.” --- Thomas Jefferson

[Bison"FANatic"]

Even if they voted would it still not be prudent to the settlement? The date that they had to vote by according to the settlement is past. I to wish they would have allowed them to vote but the deadline is done and past and the settlement was not fulfilled to allow the nickname to be kept thus the next part of the settlement kicks in and the name is retired. Otherwise we are going to be hearing about this for decades that the tribes are now going to vote thus having their support should allow the nickname to be brought back, but that ship has sailed and it is time to just move on and find a new nickname and start a new chapter of their history.

[tony]

“The right to vote supersedes any and all of our other basic human and constitutional rights.” --- Thomas Jefferson

So our basic human right is violated every time the North Dakota Legislature passes or defeats a bill instead of giving North Dakotans a direct vote on it? I guess the same must apply to any elected body including the United States Senate and House of Representatives. :)

I don't see how you can consider the ND State Legislature a legitimate decision-making body and not grant the same power to tribal councils.

Heck, tribal councils might be even more legitimate by pure democratic standards when you think about it. For example, Bob Skarphol has a lot of power even though only a tiny fraction of the state's population has ever voted for him. Pretty sure that each tribal council member represent the whole reservation rather than tiny subsections of the whole.

The ironic thing is that Carlson's proposal precludes any vote so, in effect, he just wants to go back to the time before the NCAA stepped in - there certainly is no mention of tribal approval.

[backpages]

So our basic human right is violated every time the North Dakota Legislature passes or defeats a bill instead of giving North Dakotans a direct vote on it? I guess the same must apply to any elected body including the United States Senate and House of Representatives. :)

I don't see how you can consider the ND State Legislature a legitimate decision-making body and not grant the same power to tribal councils.

Heck, tribal councils might be even more legitimate by pure democratic standards when you think about it. For example, Bob Skarphol has a lot of power even though only a tiny fraction of the state's population has ever voted for him. Pretty sure that each tribal council member represent the whole reservation rather than tiny subsections of the whole.

The ironic thing is that Carlson's proposal precludes any vote so, in effect, he just wants to go back to the time before the NCAA stepped in - there certainly is no mention of tribal approval.

The words and intent of our forefathers is a bit like reading the bible in that it’s open to all types of later year interpretations; now known as spin. The statement, however, gives pause for reflective thought.

[Bison bison]

Jefferson was a hippie.

[tony]

I see your Jefferson quote and raise you three, backpages: :)

"The two principles on which our conduct towards the Indians should be founded are justice and fear."

"the minority possess their equal rights, which equal law must protect, and to violate would be oppression."

"A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine"

[backpages]

I see your Jefferson quote and raise you three, backpages: :)

"The two principles on which our conduct towards the Indians should be founded are justice and fear."

"the minority possess their equal rights, which equal law must protect, and to violate would be oppression."

"A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine"

Tony: Excellent! Great dialog!

[backpages]

In the trial(s) of Charles Manson the defense rested without giving co-defendants Susan Atkins, Patricia Krenwinkel and Leslie Van Houten the opportunity to testify when they indicated they wanted to do so. Judge Charles H. Older paraphrased Jefferson when he said: “The right to testify supersedes any and all other rights.” I have long since found that as an extension of Jefferson and an interpretation of Jefferson. That ruling, allowing them to testify, was crucial as in their testimony they convicted themselves. Previous, it was all circumstantial evidence. My point is that people have the right to be heard when they indicate they want to do so. The individual members on Standing Rock have expressed the same. By the way, Older was originally from Hibbing, MN. Great Midwestern wisdom.

[tony]

backpages, I'm just arguing for the sake of arguing (just so you know) :)

First, Carlson's bill completely takes a vote by Standing Rock off the table.

Second, there is no legally recognized body except the tribal councils for making these kind of decisions. Moreover, suppose the vote was 60% for "Yes, I like the nickname" and 40% for "No, it must go." Looking a vote like that, wouldn't the Tribal Council be within their rights to say, "Holy cow, we're not giving our name away unconditionally when 40% of our people say no."

Bottom line is that there is no reason that the wishes of Standing Rock's tribal council should not be acknowledged as valid as long as they are legal. The plain fact is that if the tribal population voted against the nickname and the tribal council voted for it, the nickname folks would recognize the tribal council's decision as valid and reject the popular vote. Just like they'd reject any future popular votes that went agaisnt the nickname.

The "nickname uber alles" folks will ALWAYS reject any vote or decision that they don't agree with. That's their only guiding principle.

[cbline]

Let's all just agree that this is a huge hornet's nest. Wait!!! That gives me an idea for a new novel: "The Girl Who Kicked the Sioux Memorabilia"

[CAS4127]

What I don't understand is that neither Standing Rock members or any other "Sioux" indian own the effin term, name or whatever people want to call it. Hell there are businesses named Sioux Electric, Sioux Plumbing, Sioux Mfr., etc., but no on complains or bitches about that. In fact many are owned by Sioux indians. I just don't get the politically correct, double-standards thing at all. And now, the ND legislature is contemplating a bill to study why indian students aren't graduating at a higher rate than 57% and to throw money at the situation depending on the study results. I bet the indians balk at any monetary support from the ND legislature--YA, RIGHT!!! Whatever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!on all this PC bullshit.

[The_Sicatoka]

... there are businesses named Sioux Electric, Sioux Plumbing, Sioux Mfr., etc.,

Sioux City, IA
Sioux Falls, SD
Sioux County, ND (aka Standing Rock Reservation)

[dmksioux]

What I don't understand is that neither Standing Rock members or any other "Sioux" indian own the effin term, name or whatever people want to call it. Hell there are businesses named Sioux Electric, Sioux Plumbing, Sioux Mfr., etc., but no on complains or bitches about that. In fact many are owned by Sioux indians. I just don't get the politically correct, double-standards thing at all. And now, the ND legislature is contemplating a bill to study why indian students aren't graduating at a higher rate than 57% and to throw money at the situation depending on the study results. I bet the indians balk at any monetary support from the ND legislature--YA, RIGHT!!! Whatever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!on all this PC bullshit.

It's because mascots/logos dehumanize and offend people. People aren't mascots...oh wait...nevermind http://www.solen.k12.nd.us/Solen.html

I guess it's ok in some cases...:banghead:

[aces1180]

It's because mascots/logos dehumanize and offend people. People aren't mascots...oh wait...nevermind http://www.solen.k12.nd.us/Solen.html

I guess it's ok in some cases...:banghead:

Considering Solen is on their reservation, the school probably has the best argument for using that name compared to anyone else.

Also, they are a part of the NDHSAA, not the NCAA.

[backpages]

[QUOTE=tony;463431]backpages, I'm just arguing for the sake of arguing (just so you know) :)

Tony: Thanks, I enjoy it! :)

[CAS4127]

Considering Solen is on their reservation, the school probably has the best argument for using that name compared to anyone else.

Also, they are a part of the NDHSAA, not the NCAA.

So tell me again why Wapeton and the Grand Spoons schools had to change their mascots, explaining in the the same sentence or post how double-standards and PC are not involved--I'm listening---------------------------------------------------------------

P.S. I could careless about the mascot thing, but could not care more about double-standards and PC--just sayin!!

[aces1180]

So tell me again why Wapeton and the Grand Spoons schools had to change their mascots, explaining in the the same sentence or post how double-standards and PC are not involved--I'm listening---------------------------------------------------------------

P.S. I could careless about the mascot thing, but could not care more about double-standards and PC--just sayin!!

I can't answer that question...Were those changes directed from the NDHSAA or some other organization/group?

[CAS4127]

I can't answer that question...Were those changes directed from the NDHSAA or some other organization/group?

It was either them or some other state "regulatory" body, much like when Minnesota schools had to do the same thing. Thankfully, more level heads prevailed in Mahnomen, MN--home of the Mahnomen Indians to this day--when the White Earth Band of Chips wrote the MSHL and told them they were honored by the name and asked that Mahnomen High be allowed to continue using it. Wow, what a concept don't you think????!!!!

[Green-N-Gold]

backpages, I'm just arguing for the sake of arguing (just so you know) :)

First, Carlson's bill completely takes a vote by Standing Rock off the table.

Second, there is no legally recognized body except the tribal councils for making these kind of decisions. Moreover, suppose the vote was 60% for "Yes, I like the nickname" and 40% for "No, it must go." Looking a vote like that, wouldn't the Tribal Council be within their rights to say, "Holy cow, we're not giving our name away unconditionally when 40% of our people say no."

Bottom line is that there is no reason that the wishes of Standing Rock's tribal council should not be acknowledged as valid as long as they are legal. The plain fact is that if the tribal population voted against the nickname and the tribal council voted for it, the nickname folks would recognize the tribal council's decision as valid and reject the popular vote. Just like they'd reject any future popular votes that went agaisnt the nickname.

The "nickname uber alles" folks will ALWAYS reject any vote or decision that they don't agree with. That's their only guiding principle.



We have a winner. It has been documented on here multiple times that only when they needed help from the Indians did nickname supporters suddenly cry that the Indians voice needs to be heard.

[Notorious]

Why does it always seem like idiots lead these campaigns...?

Not just this one, but the "voice" of so many controversial issues, generally on both sides, is typically an under-educated moron.

[CAS4127]

backpages, I'm just arguing for the sake of arguing (just so you know) :)

First, Carlson's bill completely takes a vote by Standing Rock off the table.

Second, there is no legally recognized body except the tribal councils for making these kind of decisions. Moreover, suppose the vote was 60% for "Yes, I like the nickname" and 40% for "No, it must go." Looking a vote like that, wouldn't the Tribal Council be within their rights to say, "Holy cow, we're not giving our name away unconditionally when 40% of our people say no."

Bottom line is that there is no reason that the wishes of Standing Rock's tribal council should not be acknowledged as valid as long as they are legal. The plain fact is that if the tribal population voted against the nickname and the tribal council voted for it, the nickname folks would recognize the tribal council's decision as valid and reject the popular vote. Just like they'd reject any future popular votes that went agaisnt the nickname.

The "nickname uber alles" folks will ALWAYS reject any vote or decision that they don't agree with. That's their only guiding principle.



We have a winner. It has been documented on here multiple times that only when they needed help from the Indians did nickname supporters suddenly cry that the Indians voice needs to be heard.

I will switch the bolded around a little just to make a pont: It has been well documented that only when Indians needed help from non-Indians or the state or federal government did the Indians want their voice to be heard.

[aces1180]

I can see why the Redskins (Grand Forks Central), Savages (Dickinson State) and Wops (Wahpeton) are considered offensive, as that would be like calling an African-American the N-word. But I don't believe that the Satans (Devils Lake) or Sioux (UND) are derogatory. I suppose some Christians got involved with the DL name, but for some reason, they let the Demons (BHS) have a pass.

It is odd how some people decide what is OK and what is not.

Weren't they going to change the Midgets (Dickinson) nickname a few years back?

Also, I was a Mandan Brave (high school) and Chief (Legion)...Unfortunately, its only a matter of time there IMO. However, the work around there is just removing the Native American imagery and making the Braves and Chiefs firefighters or something.

[CAS4127]

I can see why the Redskins (Grand Forks Central), Savages (Dickinson State) and Wops (Wahpeton) are considered offensive, as that would be like calling an African-American the N-word. But I don't believe that the Satans (Devils Lake) or Sioux (UND) are derogatory. I suppose some Christians got involved with the DL name, but for some reason, they let the Demons (BHS) have a pass.

It is odd how some people decide what is OK and what is not.

Weren't they going to change the Midgets (Dickinson) nickname a few years back?

Some people??? Wonder who "they" are???

But the Washington Redskins, Cleveland Indians, Chicago Blackhawks (with their Who lookalike logo), etc. aren't? It's all making a lot more "sense" to me now--whoops, I meant "non-sense".

[aces1180]

Some people??? Wonder who "they" are???

But the Washington Redskins, Cleveland Indians, Chicago Blackhawks (with their Who lookalike logo), etc. aren't? It's all making a lot more "sense" to me now--whoops, I meant "non-sense".

Don't forget KC Chiefs...

I personally don't have a problem with any nicknames and I don't know why some get a pass and others don't. Its inconsistent, and you are right, full of non-sense.

[dmksioux]

Considering Solen is on their reservation, the school probably has the best argument for using that name compared to anyone else.

Also, they are a part of the NDHSAA, not the NCAA.

I realize this is the easy argument. However, when you read or hear the supposed "victims" talk/write about the UND logo, they talk about how it's offensive and doesn't portray the Native American of today. It portrays what they were and it creates a stereotype of what a Native American is. I just don't understand how the Solen Sioux logo is ok and the UND Sioux logo isn't and I never will.

This all boils down to a few PC nutjobs who were upset with Ralph and the way he went about his business. And yes, Tony is correct in that UND could have been a bit more aware about the relationship between the tribes and the school. However, it wasn't necessarily for a lack of trying on UND's part. The school did switch logos throughout the past decades and it's good they did. Sammy the Sioux was never a good idea. I will also say UND does do quite a bit for Native Americans, probably more than any other Public University, with all of the programs they offer. The one thing they did wrong, was take the name for granted. Sorry to go on a rant...this thread just opens up old wounds. The name is gone and the legislature should just let it go...

[Answer Guy]

So tell me again why Wapeton and the Grand Spoons schools had to change their mascots, explaining in the the same sentence or post how double-standards and PC are not involved--I'm listening

CaS = Closet Sioux

What's the A stand for? :D

[JSUBison]

What I don't understand is that neither Standing Rock members or any other "Sioux" indian own the effin term, name or whatever people want to call it. Hell there are businesses named Sioux Electric, Sioux Plumbing, Sioux Mfr., etc., but no on complains or bitches about that. In fact many are owned by Sioux indians. I just don't get the politically correct, double-standards thing at all. And now, the ND legislature is contemplating a bill to study why indian students aren't graduating at a higher rate than 57% and to throw money at the situation depending on the study results. I bet the indians balk at any monetary support from the ND legislature--YA, RIGHT!!! Whatever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!on all this PC bullshit.

My favorite is that the NCAA is headquartered in Indianapolis, Indiana. "Indian City in the land of Indians". :pan:

[CAS4127]

CaS = Closet Sioux

What's the A stand for? :D

Closet Asshole Sioux--guess I fit right in!!!:nod:

[THEsocalledfan]

I think most will see it this way...I hope anyways.

Ever watched Jay walking with Leno? Or heard about the knowledge of the average voter? Not arguing with your take, but the average voter is simply not very knowledgable and, I would think, it is worse for state office than federal.

Name recognition is the name of the game, my friend and Carlson is doing a great job of getting his 15 minutes......

I loved the movie, the "Distinguished Gentleman." I think there was more truth in the premise of that movie than many of use would like to admit.

[CAS4127]

By Socalled:
I loved the movie, the "Distinguished Gentleman." I think there was more truth in the premise of that movie than many of use would like to admit.

Has this thread caused you to begin "talking" Canadien, or have you always "talked" that way???!!!

[THEsocalledfan]

The "nickname uber alles" folks will ALWAYS reject any vote or decision that they don't agree with. That's their only guiding principle.

Tony, agree with your premise, but I would also say the reverse is also true and I am officially invoking the fairness in conversation act.

The settlement is clearly written in such a way to make it almost insurmountable as the pressure on the council to reject it (via the vocal minority) would be too great to overcome. (You argument that they have to have final say, however, is well taken.) Thus, I like the referrendum as it makes it very hard to ignore (the council) and I doubt it will be 60/40. (See Spirit Lake). Even then, they can ignore the will of the people as you point out. The ND state constitution has referendums and voter initiated measures for a reason to assure the legislature is responsive to the will of the majority. It is one of the best things in living in ND and was widely the reason taxes have stayed low. I am a strong believer in that part of populism and the need, at time, for direct democracy. It is a real same the tribe constitutions must not be configured in the same way.

Again, this is all moot since the agreement was signed.....time to end this.

[The_Sicatoka]

Oh cripes, now this ...
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41044460/ns/local_news-fargo_nd/

http://mikecandoit.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/facepalm.jpg

[THEsocalledfan]

Oh cripes, now this ...
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41044460/ns/local_news-fargo_nd/

http://mikecandoit.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/facepalm.jpg

Wow, is all I can say. This story has more twists and turns than TAB scaming members of the H0ly 0rder.....

[GRAFTONBISON]

Oh cripes, now this ...
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41044460/ns/local_news-fargo_nd/

http://mikecandoit.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/facepalm.jpg

It was just a matter of time:banghead:

[bisonaudit]

It some prior point this may have been about PC this or that but at this point all it's really about is how far a few legislators are willing to go in a futile attempt to break a legally binding agreement between the NCAA and UND, the SBoHE, and the State of North Dakota.

[Bison bison]

Bill to keep Sioux nickname?

Bill who?

Bill Sioux?

I thought it was a boy named Sue?

I'm confused.

[Hansel]

Oh cripes, now this ...
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41044460/ns/local_news-fargo_nd/

http://mikecandoit.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/facepalm.jpg

I thought Harmeson was busy spooning with Kupchella?

[met1990]

I think it refers to Bill of the Team North Dakota group. He probably just wants to use Und's nickname for the combined Super Mega Ultra Bunker Busting University the state will build in Hillsboro.

[CAS4127]

I think it refers to Bill of the Team North Dakota group. He probably just wants to use Und's nickname for the combined Super Mega Ultra Bunker Busting University the state will build in Hillsboro.

THREAD DRIFT = MY FAVORITE.

Combine this post with my post under handguns and you will already have the presidents house built, with self-defense protection that comes with the purchase. Perfect--I've been meaning to move.

[CAS4127]

Bill to keep Sioux nickname?

Bill who?

Bill Sioux?

I thought it was a boy named Sue?

I'm confused.

Now we all know who is and has been the genesis of the nickname change--it'sLakes. Hey, He's been everywhere Man, He's been everywhere!!!!

The crime of the century has been solved here on BV. :bow:

[Bison"FANatic"]

How much of this is posturing by Carlson to appease the northern valley and remember him when he tries to run and beat out Wrigley for the nomination when Dalrymple does not run for Governor next term.;) ;) ;) ;)

[CAS4127]

How much of this is posturing by Carlson to appease the northern valley and remember him when he tries to run and beat out Wrigley for the nomination when Dalrymple does not run for Governor next term.;) ;) ;) ;)

With LAKES as his deputy/assistant governor, or whatever they call it here. I'd vote for them so that Lakes wouldn't have as much time to post here on BV--although he would find a way (multi-tasking Lakes style).

[Tatanka]

I thought Harmeson was busy spooning with Kupchella?

That's a damned lie and you know it.

[Bison bison]

i heard they were forking each other.

[tjbison]

I thought Harmeson was busy spooning with Kupchella?



He's helping Kuppy frost his hair tips

[cbline]

He's helping Kuppy frost his hair tips

. . . . . at an undisclosed location, where they are unavailable for comment.

[tony]

How much of this is posturing by Carlson to appease the northern valley and remember him when he tries to run and beat out Wrigley for the nomination when Dalrymple does not run for Governor next term.;) ;) ;) ;)

Heh, maybe Rep. Skarphol and Carlson have made a deal: Skarphol supports Carlson's bid for governor in exchange for Carlson helping Skarphol take control of Higher Ed. :)

[coldspot]

Minot's paper had a pretty scathing editorial about NDSU allowing alcohol at tailgating.

can't find it online, but then again, their website is a waste of space.

[aces1180]

http://northdakota.areavoices.com/2011/01/13/carlson-talks-more-about-fighting-sioux-bill/

In my opinion, Al Carlson is a liar...Only five negative e-mails? Really?

[tcbison]

http://northdakota.areavoices.com/2011/01/13/carlson-talks-more-about-fighting-sioux-bill/

In my opinion, Al Carlson is a liar...Only five negative e-mails? Really?

I would think Lakes would have sent him at least that many. If not, Lakes is slipping.

[onbison09]

Oh cripes, now this ...
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41044460/ns/local_news-fargo_nd/



Just putting on my Bison fan hat though this is good that UND is kept down by this albatross. But wow that sucks for UND.

[MAKBison]

Ever watched Jay walking with Leno? Or heard about the knowledge of the average voter? Not arguing with your take, but the average voter is simply not very knowledgable and, I would think, it is worse for state office than federal.

Name recognition is the name of the game, my friend and Carlson is doing a great job of getting his 15 minutes......

I loved the movie, the "Distinguished Gentleman." I think there was more truth in the premise of that movie than many of use would like to admit.

I do understand what you are saying about the average person. I do not think Jaywalking is a good representation of the populace, bit maybe as professor I am a bit out of touch. I guess, I was thinking that Carlson has opened himself up a bit.

If I was to run against him, I would defiantly use this waste of time to paint him as a typical out of touch politician who would rather grandstand then talk about important issues.

Concerning the current climate of I think an agreement like this would resonate very well with the voters.
:ranting: I can tell you when I see the idiot, I sure will be given him an earful:ranting: I hope other do as well:nod: The message we need to send to our representatives is that they need to start acting like professionals or will vote your ass out.:nod:

[MAKBison]

http://northdakota.areavoices.com/2011/01/13/carlson-talks-more-about-fighting-sioux-bill/

In my opinion, Al Carlson is a liar...Only five negative e-mails? Really?

I worte one of them:D :D :D

[NDSU1980]

I worte one of them:D :D :D

So did I, and I responded to his response to me.

[heckler]

I wrote one but he never responded.

[DORMIE]

Best to just leave Carlson alone. No sense pissing him off. Even though he's a SU grad, he's one of those Cass County politicians who really doesn't do anything for the school. They normally support their local university 50% to 70%. Actually pretty sad with all the $$$ that the institution puts back into the community.

[BlueBisonRock]

Now this is an interesting approach to the UND nickname issue.

ButtHockey is alive and well (http://www.charter.net/news/read.php?id=16815468&ps=994&srce=morenews_class&action=1&lang=en)

[99Bison]

Now this is an interesting approach to the UND nickname issue.

ButtHockey is alive and well (http://www.charter.net/news/read.php?id=16815468&ps=994&srce=morenews_class&action=1&lang=en)

Weird, their in-check solution is to make shirts that sound like "sucky."

[tjbison]

Now this is an interesting approach to the UND nickname issue.

ButtHockey is alive and well (http://www.charter.net/news/read.php?id=16815468&ps=994&srce=morenews_class&action=1&lang=en)

Best quote from the Article:


“We don’t know a lot about Sioux football. We don’t know a lot about Sioux basketball,” he said. “All we know for sure is that we love Sioux hockey. Or should I say Suhaki?”


I'd be willing to bet 90% have the same thought

[JMB]

Best quote from the Article:




I'd be willing to bet 90% have the same thought

They sound like great ambassadors for their athletic department...

[aces1180]

http://www.valleynewslive.com/Global/story.asp?S=13949106

I bet Hammer wrote the headline for this story...Seriously, what news outlet would ever use an exclamation point for story other than something like, "It's War!" or "Aliens Probe Obama!"

Way to be objective, Valley News Live.

[Tatanka]

Continued waste of time and taxpayer money.

It would be interesting to see someone call for an audit of the state expeditures (straight cash outlay PLUS fully burdened number of hours spent by state employees) related to the nickname fight. I won't even get into the enormous opportunity cost... if this was done in an honest and open fashion, there would be a lot less quibbling over the "Fargo President's House". Then again, maybe we don't want to know.

[coldspot]

Continued waste of time and taxpayer money.

It would be interesting to see someone call for an audit of the state expeditures (straight cash outlay PLUS fully burdened number of hours spent by state employees) related to the nickname fight. I won't even get into the enormous opportunity cost... if this was done in an honest and open fashion, there would be a lot less quibbling over the "Fargo President's House". Then again, maybe we don't want to know.

and when they find out that there's X amount $ more than the presidents house, they would still blame chapman for it.

[TbonZach]

and when they find out that there's X amount $ more than the presidents house, they would still blame chapman for it.

Actually it would probably be Taylor/NDSU and Douple. Taylor/NDSU for moving up to DI and not playing them anymore and Douple for not inviting them into the Summit.

[MN_BISON]

Every NoDak on Bisonville should write their state reps and senator and ask for an audit of this whole circus. They should also ask who's going to get stuck with the bill for paying for THEIR frickin' legal fees when they decide to head back to court against the NCAA. Nothing would make me laugh more than the NCAA telling them to go pound sand because they are no longer wanted in the private club that is the NCAA. I can dream can't I? For the record, I've never been against the name Sioux but I've just about had enough of all this shizzzzzzzzzzzzot. :banghead:

[JMB]

OK my judgement is likely clouded for my dislike of the Sioux.... but if this passes doesn't this make the state of North Dakota look really bad? A group of people with the authority to negotiate for the state enters into an agreement with the NCAA. The state (granted a different part of it) decides it doesn't like said outcome and decides to back out of said agreement!

I just hope NDSU doesn't get caught in the hell that could be coming. They may look at is as the "State of North Dakota" screwing with them, and we may end up getting hosed due to proximity. The NCAA may decide to squeeze North Dakota, and that could adversly effect all the NCAA programs in the state.

[Trim]

...Seriously, what news outlet would ever use an exclamation point for story other than something like, "It's War!" or "Aliens Probe Obama!"

Way to be objective, Valley News Live.

Wow... Elaine Benes must be writing headlines for them.

[WYOBISONMAN]

Every NoDak on Bisonville should write their state reps and senator and ask for an audit of this whole circus. They should also ask who's going to get stuck with the bill for paying for THEIR frickin' legal fees when they decide to head back to court against the NCAA. Nothing would make me laugh more than the NCAA telling them to go pound sand because they are no longer wanted in the private club that is the NCAA. I can dream can't I? For the record, I've never been against the name Sioux but I've just about had enough of all this shizzzzzzzzzzzzot. :banghead:

This sums my position up on this too............and who cares what they are called. Unless they try and call themselves the Bison, I don't care......

[sambini]

This sums my position up on this too............and who cares what they are called. Unless they try and call themselves the Bison, I don't care...... ++++++++++++++++

[dmksioux]

I thought this was a fun little article to read. First the legislature tries to take alcohol away from College Athletic events because minors might be exposed to alcohol. Now they pass a bill allowing them into bars...good stuff!

http://www.grandforksherald.com/event/article/id/192779

[tony]

I thought this was a fun little article to read. First the legislature tries to take alcohol away from College Athletic events because minors might be exposed to alcohol. Now they pass a bill allowing them into bars...good stuff!

http://www.grandforksherald.com/event/article/id/192779

Seems totally different to me. This bill makes something legal. That's the complete opposite of the "Make as much as possible illegal and then make anything left over mandatory" philosophy that has been one of this Legislature's guiding principles (the other guiding principle: "The Legislature needs more power.")

One approach treats citizens as adults. The other treats them like children. The solution to some societal problems is for adults to start acting like adults, not draconian measure after draconian measure. Need to find an appopriate middle ground.

[dmksioux]

Seems totally different to me. This bill makes something legal. That's the complete opposite of the "Make as much as possible illegal and then make everything left over mandatory."

One approach treats citizens as adults. The other treats them like children. The solution to some societal problems is for adults to start acting like adults. We should be try to find a good middle ground between the two extremes. The Legislature, up until this point, has been skewing toward the more totalitarian approach.

I was looking at it from the hypocritical standpoint of
"trying to hide booze" in their first bill and now they are saying "It's ok to be exposed" to that type of environment.

I also put this in the wrong thread...I intended to put it in the thread pertaining to the "No alcohol at athletic events" thread. Sorry about that and feel free to move it.

[tony]

I was looking at it from the hypocritical standpoint of
"trying to hide booze" in their first bill and now they are saying "It's ok to be exposed" to that type of environment.

I also put this in the wrong thread...I intended to put it in the thread pertaining to the "No alcohol at athletic events" thread. Sorry about that and feel free to move it.

No problem: Both threads involve some people in the Legislature trying to pass stupid bills.

I'd argue that they're not being hypocritical because they slapped down the tailgating ban overwhelmingly.

Also, I shouldn't have painted the Legislature with such a broad bush. They've defeated a lot of stupid measures.

[bisonmike2]

http://www.valleynewslive.com/Global/story.asp?S=13949106

I bet Hammer wrote the headline for this story...Seriously, what news outlet would ever use an exclamation point for story other than something like, "It's War!" or "Aliens Probe Obama!"

Way to be objective, Valley News Live.

I don't know why, but I read the article in an excited teenage girls voice and inserted a couple of "OMGS!!!!" for good measure. At this point KVLY should just add the Sioux logo to their logo. Why even fake being a unbiased news entity anymore.

[JackJD]

Can there be anything negative about having a budget surplus? I think we have the answer: dumber legislation.

[NorthernBison]

I was looking at it from the hypocritical standpoint of
"trying to hide booze" in their first bill and now they are saying "It's ok to be exposed" to that type of environment.

I also put this in the wrong thread...I intended to put it in the thread pertaining to the "No alcohol at athletic events" thread. Sorry about that and feel free to move it.

I haven't compared the lists but I'm guessing that Damschen and the people who voted for his bill voted against this one. This is a good bill and reflects the realities of rural ND.

[ndsubison1]

I thought this was a fun little article to read. First the legislature tries to take alcohol away from College Athletic events because minors might be exposed to alcohol. Now they pass a bill allowing them into bars...good stuff!

http://www.grandforksherald.com/event/article/id/192779

:rofl: :rofl:. thats politicians for ya!

BTW I am for this bill

[NDSUstudent]

House committee recommended to pass Carlson's bill 10-5.....

http://northdakota.areavoices.com/2011/02/16/fighting-sioux-update/

[Facts]

House committee recommended to pass Carlson's bill 10-5.....

http://northdakota.areavoices.com/2011/02/16/fighting-sioux-update/

Neck, continue to support millstone. That is all. :nod:

[TheBisonator]

House committee recommended to pass Carlson's bill 10-5.....

http://northdakota.areavoices.com/2011/02/16/fighting-sioux-update/

Damn, and I just ran out of popcorn....

[Bison"FANatic"]

This basically takes the financial burden off of the "UND Donors" that have been footing the bill and puts it on the state to foot the bill. This may have been a good bill 6 or more years ago but a settlement has been reached and contract signed. Wait till the NCAA sues the state Board of higher ed for breach of contract. Heck they may even not sue and just take there ball and go home and not allow the Sioux in the NCAA.

"It requires the attorney general to consider filing a federal anti-trust claim against the NCAA if the association takes any action to penalize UND for using the nickname and logo."
from the article

[TheBisonator]

But seriously, what if the ND legislature approves this bill??

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v199/SmileyBoy/Clusterfuck.jpg

[coldspot]

This basically takes the financial burden off of the "UND Donors" that have been footing the bill and puts it on the state to foot the bill. This may have been a good bill 6 or more years ago but a settlement has been reached and contract signed. Wait till the NCAA sues the state Board of higher ed for breach of contract. Heck they may even not sue and just take there ball and go home and not allow the Sioux in the NCAA.

"It requires the attorney general to consider filing a federal anti-trust claim against the NCAA if the association takes any action to penalize UND for using the nickname and logo."
from the article

so this can either end poorly for the nickname supports or end poorly for the nickname supporters and UND?

[CAS4127]

This basically takes the financial burden off of the "UND Donors" that have been footing the bill and puts it on the state to foot the bill. This may have been a good bill 6 or more years ago but a settlement has been reached and contract signed. Wait till the NCAA sues the state Board of higher ed for breach of contract. Heck they may even not sue and just take there ball and go home and not allow the Sioux in the NCAA.

"It requires the attorney general to consider filing a federal anti-trust claim against the NCAA if the association takes any action to penalize UND for using the nickname and logo."
from the article

Think--consider but not do so. Thus, the play-off sanctions will come unless the nickname goes away = nickname goes away. In short, this is all just a fascade to allow the legislature to say they loved and supported the Sioux nickname.

[ndsubison1]

House committee recommended to pass Carlson's bill 10-5.....

http://northdakota.areavoices.com/2011/02/16/fighting-sioux-update/

does the govt really need to be involved in this stuff? :banghead:

[Bison"FANatic"]

Think--consider but not do so. Thus, the play-off sanctions will come unless the nickname goes away = nickname goes away. In short, this is all just a fascade to allow the legislature to say they loved and supported the Sioux nickname.

I agree I still think it is Carlson shoring up votes in NE ND for future political capital. The one thing that brings the legislators and constituents together up there is UND.

[tjbison]

Friday at 10AM is the first meeting at UND to start the transition away fromthe current name and logo.

[Tatanka]

so this can either end poorly for the nickname supports or end poorly for the nickname supporters and UND?

No, this ends poorly for taxpayers in the state of North Dakota. Unknown how this affects the school or its supporters, but I'm sure there will be more funding appropriated to UND as a result

[Twentysix]

I thought this was a fun little article to read. First the legislature tries to take alcohol away from College Athletic events because minors might be exposed to alcohol. Now they pass a bill allowing them into bars...good stuff!

http://www.grandforksherald.com/event/article/id/192779

I had no idea that was illegal in the first place. I think every smalltown bar in western ND allows minors inside.

I trick or treeted Joes bar in Hebron before it burned down(1990s-2000s), and ate inside it as a minor after it was rebuilt in a different location.

Had been in alot of other bars as a kid aswell. Never east of mandan though. Some in Montana aswell i believe.

[duluthbison]

This basically takes the financial burden off of the "UND Donors" that have been footing the bill and puts it on the state to foot the bill. This may have been a good bill 6 or more years ago but a settlement has been reached and contract signed. Wait till the NCAA sues the state Board of higher ed for breach of contract. Heck they may even not sue and just take there ball and go home and not allow the Sioux in the NCAA.

"It requires the attorney general to consider filing a federal anti-trust claim against the NCAA if the association takes any action to penalize UND for using the nickname and logo."
from the article

Very true, if it passes the house and senate. The committee just gave it a do pass vote so it can now be considered in the house. Hopefully there are enough sane people up there to vote this thing down.

[roadwarrior]

Very true, if it passes the house and senate. The committee just gave it a do pass vote so it can now be considered in the house. Hopefully there are enough sane people up there to vote this thing down.

If it gets past the house and senate and the governor signs it, there is still the constitutional issue whether the legislature has the authority to tell UND what to do.

[NorthernBison]

Very true, if it passes the house and senate. The committee just gave it a do pass vote so it can now be considered in the house. Hopefully there are enough sane people up there to vote this thing down.

It gets voted on regardless of the committee vote. Bills cannot die in committee in the ND Legislature.

All three nickname bills will be voted on in the House.

[Bison bison]

I trick or treeted Joes bar in Hebron before it burned down

like right before?

[IzzyFlexion]

The "Fighting Oreos"??
http://www.grandforksherald.com/media/story/jpg/2011/02/16/021611sports2jkscopy.jpg
-photo credit: Grand Forks Herald

[JMB]

My concern about this is that this isn't UND giving the finger to the NCAA, it is the State of North Dakota. Is there possible blowback on all the State of ND instititutions? Nothing major but maybe subtle sticks, lower seeds in playoffs, nasty road trips, etc?

[roadwarrior]

The NCAA has yet to approve final membership for UND in D-I. That would be the big finger!

[Tatanka]

The NCAA has yet to approve final membership for UND in D-I. That would be the big finger!

Indeed it would... and it would cost the ND taxpayers even more as the knuckleheads try to litigate their way out of the hole they dug for themselves.

[Bison"FANatic"]

The NCAA has yet to approve final membership for UND in D-I. That would be the big finger!

Maybe just maybe Douple and the summit league were correct in wanting the nickname taken care of before talking membership. The board posters to the north call him a idiot but maybe he was correct in not wanting his members involved in this. Oh the crap storm this bill could cause.:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

And I am one who thinks all this PC junk has gone to far in our world. I think they should be able to keep the nickname but the process was so screwed up by UND. They lost the nickname by not being able to follow the path they agreed to, they lost the nickname themselves. I to can see the NCAA saying you didn't follow the contract you signed so we are not going to approve final membership. The NCAA carries the big ax and they don't even have to use it they just need to threaten to use it.

[tony]

And I am one who thinks all this PC junk has gone to far in our world. I think they should be able to keep the nickname but the process was so screwed up by UND. They lost the nickname by not being able to follow the path they agreed to, they lost the nickname themselves. I to can see the NCAA saying you didn't follow the contract you signed so we are not going to approve final membership. The NCAA carries the big ax and they don't even have to use it they just need to threaten to use it.

First, I don't think is strictly a PC issue. I think reasonable people could agree that the actual Sioux have a better claim of ownership to their name than UND does. I mean, if somebody uses your family's name to market a product, wouldn't you expect them to check with you first?

Second, NOBODY is more PC than UND. For example, who had very public fits about "Sioux Suck" chants and t-shirts? What other school would freak out if Texas Tech dared to show their mascot on a program?

[CAS4127]

First, I don't think is strictly a PC issue. I think reasonable people could agree that the actual Sioux have a better claim of ownership to their name than UND does. I mean, if somebody uses your family's name to market a product, wouldn't you expect them to check with you first?
Second, NOBODY is more PC than UND. For example, who had very public fits about "Sioux Suck" chants and t-shirst? What other school would freak out if Texas Tech dared to show their mascot on a program?

Tony, there are all sorts of businesses in and around ND that use Sioux in there name, and many, if not all, are not affiliated with the Sioux tribes. This all about PC. I mean, did the use of the name just recently start to offend people, or has it been since its inception? The answer tells you that it is a PC thing, as PC has been on the rise since the Clinton era.

[tony]

Tony, there are all sorts of businesses in and around ND that use Sioux in there name, and many, if not all, are not affiliated with the Sioux tribes. This all about PC. I mean, did the use of the name just recently start to offend people, or has it been since its inception? The answer tells you that it is a PC thing, as PC has been on the rise since the Clinton era.

Well, what's wrong with the Sioux name in those contexts? I'm not seeing much of a similarity.

Fact is: The standard for behavior for a private organization is different than the standard for a public institution.

For example, UND, as an institution, can't promote one religion over others, but private organizations and individuals, including employees of UND, can. In fact, private inviduals and businesses can do all sorts of things that are not appropriate for a public institution.

This has been an issue for at least 40 years - pretty much since the first Sioux starting attending UND. I think people just want to avoid thinking by tossing out "PC this" and "PC that." Yes, there is an element of PC hysteria to the controversy but the deal at UND started when Indians got on campus and didn't like how UND was using their culture to market a product. I don't think that's PC.

[unbison]

Real travesty here is they originally were asked by the tribes to drop the fighting part of the name...... So I find it funny they losing the whole thing!

[CAS4127]

Well, what's wrong with the Sioux name in those contexts? I'm not seeing much of a similarity.

Fact is: The standard for behavior for a private organization is different than the standard for a public institution.

For example, UND, as an institution, can't promote one religion over others, but private organizations and individuals, including employees of UND, can. In fact, private inviduals and businesses can do all sorts of things that are not appropriate for a public institution.

This has been an issue for at least 40 years - pretty much since the first Sioux starting attending UND. I think people just want to avoid thinking by tossing out "PC this" and "PC that." Yes, there is an element of PC hysteria to the controversy but the deal at UND started when Indians got on campus and didn't like how UND was using their culture to market a product. I don't think that's PC.

You are the one who posted this, not me:

By Tony:
I think reasonable people could agree that the actual Sioux have a better claim of ownership to their name than UND does. I mean, if somebody uses your family's name to market a product, wouldn't you expect them to check with you first?

And P.S. I never heard a whisper about it when I was there from 89-92--just sayin. It's effin PC run-amuck!

[Bison"FANatic"]

W

Fact is: The standard for behavior for a private organization is different than the standard for a public institution.



If UND was a private school right now they would still be having the same fight with the NCAA though. The NCAA views it as a politically correct fight. Just my thoughts,

You may be wrong You may be right, I may be crazy
But it just may be a internet discussion you're looking for
Turn out the light, don't try to save me
You may be wrong for all I know, but you may be right
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

[tony]

If UND was a private school right now they would still be having the same fight with the NCAA though. The NCAA views it as a politically correct fight.

Agree with that. However, if UND had acted decently, it never would have gotten to the NCAA.

1. The NCAA says that UND is wrong to use Sioux as a mascot.
2. UND says that anybody who treats UND's mascot like any other school's mascot is wrong.

Don't see how people can reconcile 1 & 2.

[BadlandsBison]

Many years from now when this is all over, the State government must count up all of the $ they spent dragging out this battle, and send a check to NDSU for the same amount.

I bet it would be enough money to pruchase that bullet train we've all been wishing for:hungry:

[Bison"FANatic"]

if UND had acted decently,



Tony made a funny:) :) :) ;) ;) ;) :D :D :D

Seriously though I agree it is to bad they lacked leadership the last decade though. It has made for some entertainment the last few years. It is one of those things that you know you shouldn't care or watch but it is so dang crazy you just have to watch to see what happens next because it will probably blow your mind.:smh: :smh: :smh: :smh:

[TheBisonator]

Many years from now when this is all over, the State government must count up all of the $ they spent dragging out this battle, and send a check to NDSU for the same amount.

I bet it would be enough money to pruchase that bullet train we've all been wishing for:hungry:

I'd rather have a new basketball arena...

[tony]

You are the one who posted this, not me:

By Tony:

And P.S. I never heard a whisper about it when I was there from 89-92--just sayin. It's effin PC run-amuck!

Are you asking me something? When I lived in Grand Forks (from '69 to '75), it was definitely a pretty big issue. For example, Sammy the Sioux got ditched and some frat house put a rude Indian snow sculpture out front and some Sioux students got pissed off enough to go over looking to kick some asses. It kind of faded to the background for several years before starting to pick up again in 1992 - I thought that was the first year that Standing Rock formally asked UND to drop the nickname.

The protest by actual Sioux people has little, if anything, to do with political correctness. It has a lot more to do rise of the American Indian Movement (think Pine Ridge) and an increase in the number of Sioux students at UND - nothing PC there.

Now, at the NCAA level, you have a point - that's political correctness.

[CAS4127]

Are you asking me something? When I lived in Grand Forks (from '69 to '75), it was definitely a pretty big issue. For example, Sammy the Sioux got ditched and some frat house put a rude Indian snow sculpture out front and some Sioux students got pissed off enough to go over looking to kick some asses. It kind of faded to the background for several years before starting to pick up again in 1992 - I thought that was the first year that Standing Rock formally asked UND to drop the nickname.

The protest by actual Sioux people has little, if anything, to do with political correctness. It has a lot more to do rise of the American Indian Movement (think Pine Ridge) and an increase in the number of Sioux students at UND - nothing PC there.

Now, at the NCAA level, you have a point - that's political correctness.

And we agree on not only this, but also that some, but not all, of the push by the Sioux tribes is PC driven. :cheers:

[JSUBison]

Agree with that. However, if UND had acted decently, it never would have gotten to the NCAA.

1. The NCAA says that UND is wrong to use Sioux as a mascot.
2. UND says that anybody who treats UND's mascot like any other school's mascot is wrong.

Don't see how people can reconcile 1 & 2.

But according to UND fans it's not a mascot. It's a logo. They like to make that distinction for whatever reason. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[ndsubison1]

Maybe just maybe Douple and the summit league were correct in wanting the nickname taken care of before talking membership. The board posters to the north call him a idiot but maybe he was correct in not wanting his members involved in this. Oh the crap storm this bill could cause.:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

And I am one who thinks all this PC junk has gone to far in our world. I think they should be able to keep the nickname but the process was so screwed up by UND. They lost the nickname by not being able to follow the path they agreed to, they lost the nickname themselves. I to can see the NCAA saying you didn't follow the contract you signed so we are not going to approve final membership. The NCAA carries the big ax and they don't even have to use it they just need to threaten to use it.

yeah and when we say "Sioux Suck" people say we're racist and aiming it at Indians. We're not. We're saying it toward their athletic teams! :biggrin:

[ndsubison1]

Tony, there are all sorts of businesses in and around ND that use Sioux in there name, and many, if not all, are not affiliated with the Sioux tribes. This all about PC. I mean, did the use of the name just recently start to offend people, or has it been since its inception? The answer tells you that it is a PC thing, as PC has been on the rise since the Clinton era.

a couple of high schools use sioux as their nicknames. Solen is one I believe

[tjbison]

Many years from now when this is all over, the State government must count up all of the $ they spent dragging out this battle, and send a check to NDSU for the same amount.

I bet it would be enough money to pruchase that bullet train we've all been wishing for:hungry:

If they keep the name it will never be over, the Tribes are NOT for it no matter how the media and UND supporters spin it.

[tjbison]

a couple of high schools use sioux as their nicknames. Solen is one I believe

Westhope-Newburg were maybe still are the Sioux

[aces1180]

http://www.inforum.com/event/article/id/309448/

Get ready folks, the vote is happening today....Should be interesting!

[onbison09]

http://www.inforum.com/event/article/id/309448/

Get ready folks, the vote is happening today....Should be a complete circus!

FIFY

(10 chars)

[JSUBison]

http://www.inforum.com/event/article/id/309448/

Get ready folks, the vote is happening today....Should be interesting!

Someone should start a House Bill 1263 GDT.

[Tatanka]

Someone should start a House Bill 1263 GDT.

And a spreadsheet to track all of the wasted taxpayer money.

[Ferd]

So here's where it stands:

1. The House can reject it and it's done. (A delayed bill could be introduced, but not likely.)

2. The House approves it, then:

a. It moves to the Senate,
b. Gets assigned to a committee for testimony
c. Gets voted on by the full Senate.

If it doesn't pass the Senate it's done, otherwise it goes to the Governor who SHOULD veto it.

(However, If the Senate should amend it and pass it it will go to a conference committee.)

We could be listening to this meaningless drivel for two months unless the House decide to quit wasting everyone's time.

Bear in mind that the current bill only states that the Attorney General should "consider" suing the NCAA.

My oh My... :banghead:

[Bison"FANatic"]

I think if it is rejected by the whole house a member of the house that either didn't vote or voted no can recall it for a second vote within 48 hours or something like that. So it could get voted down and the circus would continue.

[ndsubison1]

ppl complained about ndsu alumni donations to the president's house but where's the uproar over taxpayer dollars going towards this? :banghead:

[Tatanka]

ppl complained about ndsu alumni donations to the president's house but where's the uproar over taxpayer dollars going towards this? :banghead:

EXACTLY. Where's the audit? Where's the outrage? Hmmmm.....

[mebisonII]

So here's where it stands:

1. The House can reject it and it's done. (A delayed bill could be introduced, but not likely.)

2. The House approves it, then:

a. It moves to the Senate,
b. Gets assigned to a committee for testimony
c. Gets voted on by the full Senate.

If it doesn't pass the Senate it's done, otherwise it goes to the Governor who SHOULD veto it.

(However, If the Senate should amend it and pass it it will go to a conference committee.)

We could be listening to this meaningless drivel for two months unless the House decide to quit wasting everyone's time.

Bear in mind that the current bill only states that the Attorney General should "consider" suing the NCAA.

My oh My... :banghead:

Here's what I don't get...the bill says neither UND nor the SBOHE can change the nickname, and that the AG should "consider" suing if the NCAA gives trouble over it. So what happens if the AG considers, and decides no? Wouldn't we then have legislated ourselves into a corner?

[Ferd]

I think if it is rejected by the whole house a member of the house that either didn't vote or voted no can recall it for a second vote within 48 hours or something like that. So it could get voted down and the circus would continue.

Correct. There are numerous ways to extend this whole circus.

:banghead:

[Ferd]

Here's what I don't get...the bill says neither UND nor the SBOHE can change the nickname, and that the AG should "consider" suing if the NCAA gives trouble over it. So what happens if the AG considers, and decides no? Wouldn't we then have legislated ourselves into a corner?

To an extent. The AG has already stated he believes the bill is unconstitutional.

Even it is passed by both houses AND signed by the Governor, the AG could be asked for an opinion or someone could bring up the constitutionality in court, ultimately landing in the State Supreme Court.

Let's hear it for another audit!!

Better yet, Let's hear it for ending the whole pissing match!!

[BadlandsBison]

A petition for an audit? Might just be crazy enough to work. I'll tell Scooby and Shaggy.

[aces1180]

It's time to rock and roll!

Go Bison!

[aces1180]

Some yahoo legislature just quoted Bluto from Animal House...and he's wearing a Sioux tie...Good God.

[JSUBison]

I'm having to install realplayer to watch this. C'mon man! Who uses realplayer in this day? Downloading....

[aces1180]

I'm having to install realplayer to watch this. C'mon man! Who uses realplayer in this day? Downloading....

Yeah, I had to do the same thing...

[JSUBison]

I'm watching it now. This speech will go down as being as epic as Mel Gibson's in Braveheart.

[Bison bison]

Bear in mind that the current bill only states that the Attorney General should "consider" suing the NCAA.


No.

It says that the nickname is staying and that if the NCAA tries to stop us the AG shall consider suing.

The 2011 Legislative Session: Just When you Thought Things Couldn't get any More Queer
http://www.glamourvanity.com/images/bruno-premiere-fashion-los-angeles-2.jpg

[JSUBison]

Uh oh. Elliot G just called the Native Americans, "indians".

[Bison bison]

that's okay, he's from grand forks.

[aces1180]

Uh oh...NDSU just got blamed for "mean chants" towards the Sioux by Jerry Kelsh. LOL

[coldspot]

where are you guys watching this at?

[Tatanka]

Uh oh...NDSU just got blamed for "mean chants" towards the Sioux. LOL

Of course. And I'm guessing there was a lot of "HARUMPH HARUMPH" in the peanut gallery.

[JSUBison]

Uh oh...NDSU just got blamed for "mean chants" towards the Sioux by Jerry Kelsh. LOL

He made a good point about wasted time and money on the issue though.

[aces1180]

where are you guys watching this at?

http://web.apps.state.nd.us/lcn/assembly/legss/public/floorcalendar.htm?chamber=house

[Mr. Burgundy]

Uh oh...NDSU just got blamed for "mean chants" towards the Sioux by Jerry Kelsh. LOL

Seriously? We haven't played them in years. When we recently did in hoops, both fanbases were dead ass quiet. The players on both sides didn't care.

[aces1180]

He made a good point about wasted time and money on the issue though.

Yes...And Rae Ann Kelsch from Mandan is a f**king cu*t.

And her testimony just knocked her cause back...What a whinny loser.

[JSUBison]

Seriously? We haven't played them in years. When we recently did in hoops, both fanbases were dead ass quiet. The players on both sides didn't care.

Must have been Mayville State fans....

[aces1180]

Must have been Mayville State fans....

Awesome...+1

[aces1180]

1257 failed...The Standing Rock requirements.

1208 failed...Very similar to above.

[JSUBison]

LOLOLOL it passed!

Something like 63-28. Wasn't even close. Wow.

[Tatanka]

LOLOLOL it passed!

Something like 63-28. Wasn't even close. Wow.

Ridiculous. Let's hope the Senate doesn't have shit for brains.

[aces1180]

Kill me now...What a crock of shit.

[onbison09]

LOLOLOL it passed!

Something like 63-28. Wasn't even close. Wow.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnHmskwqCCQ

[Bison bison]

I love it!

This could really end up hurting UND as its football team won't be able to host home playoff games until it is resolved!

[onbison09]

I love it!

This could really end up hurting UND as its hockey team won't be able to host home playoff games until it is resolved!

FIFY. The football team isn't going to the playoffs anytime soon I think.

[Bison bison]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnHmskwqCCQ

that's my wedding song. really brings back the memories.

[Tatanka]

I love it!

This could really end up hurting UND as its football team won't be able to host home playoff games until it is resolved!

Meh. UND won't even know what a playoff game looks like with their roster and/or schedule in any non-teh-hockies-sport. And it doesn't matter for teh hockies since the play-in round for the conference championship isn't really "playoffs". Ergo, it doesn't matter, which is why nobody's worried about pursuing this asshattery.

[aces1180]

I love it!

This could really end up hurting UND as its football team won't be able to host home playoff games until it is resolved!

Like they were going to get anywhere close to even sniffing the playoffs in the next 5 years?

I agree, however, as this is going to make it suck even worse for UND.

The NCAA is loving this, I bet. You want to be eligible for DI tournaments? Nope, you are still on probation.

[Bison bison]

FIFY. The football team isn't going to the playoffs anytime soon I think.

you fallen into one of the classic blunders, the most famous of which is...


also, hockey is held at neutral sites nowadays.

[JSUBison]

Like they were going to get anywhere close to even sniffing the playoffs in the next 5 years?

I agree, however, as this is going to make it suck even worse for UND.

The NCAA is loving this, I bet. You want to be eligible for DI tournaments? Nope, you are still on probation.


Or even getting this letter:



Dear UND:
re: DI memebership

DENIED

Sincerely,
NCAA

[Bison bison]

The NCAA is loving this, I bet. You want to be eligible for DI tournaments? Nope, you are still on probation.

I can really see this.

The funny thing is I bet it will take a year or two the supremecourt/state/UND/AG/SBoHE to even understand what they can do.

I think that Kelly is ruing the day he applied for the president's job up north.

[aces1180]

I'm glad I live in Minnesota now.

We might have a $6 billion budget shortfall and higher taxes, but at least we don't have a bunch of Sioux-loving douches in the legislature. (only Gopher fans)

[Bison bison]

you've clowns to left of you, jokers to the right...

[Bison"FANatic"]

Like I have said before I could care less what they call themselves. A UND fighting turnip is still going to suck or swallow if they go that route.

This is just getting good. Might have to get another batch of popcorn ready and see what the happens next.

Truthfully do you think the NCAA cares what the ND legislature says. They may just take their ball and go home and on the way out the door give UND a app to the NAIA. Basically saying having you in the NCAA isn't worth the money you are going to cost us in legal bills and bad publicity.

[coldspot]

Like I have said before I could care less what they call themselves. A UND fighting turnip is still going to suck or swallow if they go that route.

This is just getting good. Might have to get another batch of popcorn ready and see what the happens next.

Truthfully do you think the NCAA cares what the ND legislature says. They may just take their ball and go home and on the way out the door give UND a app to the NAIA. Basically saying having you in the NCAA isn't worth the money you are going to cost us in legal bills and bad publicity.

does the NAIA sponsor hockey?

[tony]

I can see it now:



Legislature, North Dakota
Bismarck, ND


Dear Legislature,

Attached is a letter we recieved on April 3rd, 2011 about a nickname for one of your state's NCAA member institutions. I feel that you should be aware that some asshole is signing your name to stupid letters.


Very truly yours,

The NCAA


Credit where credit is due:
http://drx.typepad.com/psychotherapyblog/2010/12/nfl-lawsuit.html

[Bison"FANatic"]

One of the things that baffles me is the number of people on Siouxsports and others I have talked to that are willing to give up Football playoff homegames to keep the name.

[Tatanka]

One of the things that baffles me is the number of people on Siouxsports and others I have talked to that are willing to give up Football playoff homegames to keep the name.

Football != Hockey.

QED

[Bison bison]

Do not under estimate the possibility of the Fighting Sioux joining the ECHL!