crooked refs

[HerdBot]

That's all I got to say. Replay? Are you serious? Screwed twice by it. They must have been cold. Despite the refs both teams are damn good.

[MN_BISON]

I want to know who the f@ck was in the booth making those calls.

[LITTLEGUYSINGREEN]

That's all I got to say. Replay? Are you serious? Screwed twice by it. They must have been cold. Despite the refs both teams are damn good.

The refs screwed up a few times, but our offense lost us the game. We forced 5 turnovers and failed to convert on most of them. All we needed was a first down at the end and we win. Typical of our offense all season long. :banghead:

But, great season anyway. Better than expected. Looking forward to next year already. :nod:

[Screamin_Eagle174]

To all the respectful fans, this is not for you. Hell of a game, and congrats to the Bison on a great season. To those of you who talked as much shit as I did...



http://www.myuploadedimages.com/images/84490040261403636900.png

EASTERN EAGLES BABY!!! NEVER QUIT!!!!

[MN_BISON]

Hey, is that the replay official with the gun?:D


To all the respectful fans, this is not for you. Hell of a game, and congrats to the Bison on a great season. To those of you who talked as much shit as I did...



http://www.myuploadedimages.com/images/84490040261403636900.png

EASTERN EAGLES BABY!!! NEVER QUIT!!!!

[SomeBeach]

No, that's the replay official in the Eagle suit. :mad:

[lakesbison]

Love the pa..cow bells and jackass security on
the track.

[No_Skill]

Love the pa..cow bells and jackass security on
the track.


Yeah, I thought he PA couldn't rile the crowd. I swear I heard "and that's another eagle'...first down". WTF?

[scbison91]

I heard the PA announcer also.

[bisonmike2]

Kolpack posted the officials name. Bill Fette of the Pac-10

[scbison91]

google PAC-10 football officials.. Wow!! There seems to be a lot of problems with them.

[HerdBot]

To all the respectful fans, this is not for you. Hell of a game, and congrats to the Bison on a great season. To those of you who talked as much shit as I did...



http://www.myuploadedimages.com/images/84490040261403636900.png

EASTERN EAGLES BABY!!! NEVER QUIT!!!!

Ill even admit you guys got a great team but we should have had a chance at the end. Refs decided the game.

[lakesbison]

The fumble was after Jensen hit the ground. However, replay official Bill Fette of the Pac-10 didn't overturn it,

Someone find an email

[HerdBot]

The fumble was after Jensen hit the ground. However, replay official Bill Fette of the Pac-10 didn't overturn it,

Someone find an email

Bill.fette@itakebribes.com
Or
Bill.fette@ewu.edu

[Da_Bison]

The fumble was after Jensen hit the ground. However, replay official Bill Fette of the Pac-10 didn't overturn it,

Someone find an email

Its over, whats cryin about it gonna do??? All our bitchin in the world isn't gonna change it. Big time Bummer

[scbison91]

Kolpack posted the officials name. Bill Fette of the Pac-10

Actually it was AP story that is posted on In-forum.. Which means somone totally independent could tell it was NOT A FUMBLE!!

[HerdBot]

Its over, whats cryin about it gonna do??? All our bitchin in the world isn't gonna change it. Big time Bummer

No but if the ref can get investigated or fired ill feel better..

[scbison91]

This guy should never ref another game....

[Da_Bison]

No but if the ref can get investigated or fired ill feel better..

I reckon. I wish we hadn't put ourselves in the position of overtime.

[scbison91]

I reckon. I wish we hadn't put ourselves in the position of overtime.

Agree but it was such an obvious call!!!! No excuse for it.

[Elvis was a Bison]

Thank God. I thought it might have been Stevie Wonder.:p

[Twentysix]

Agree but it was such an obvious call!!!! No excuse for it.

The first review aswell, right before TJones ran for that TD. Ball hit the ground, thats a dead ball, incomplete pass. Blew that review and the last one.

[onbison09]

The first review aswell, right before TJones ran for that TD. Ball hit the ground, thats a dead ball, incomplete pass. Blew that review and the last one.

Was he completely wasted all game?

[HerdBot]

Not to mention the 3rd down catch that clearly hit the turf. Should have punted instead next play is a td. How about the bogus personal fouls at key parts of the game. Questionable PI call in endzone that was uncatchable. Fumble we clearly recovered. Catch and fumble they called incomplete. JENSEN FUMBLE.

HOW MANY WENT OUR WAY? ZERO. CROOKED REFS.

[ndsubison1]

there were some questionable calls but it shouldnt have to come down to those calls. 3rd and 2 and we do a QB run to the left? really? go at them with DJ. play calling lost us this game, also that dumb penalty by Richard killed us

[bisonmike2]

Not to mention the 3rd down catch that clearly hit the turf. Should have punted instead next play is a td. How about the bogus personal fouls at key parts of the game. Questionable PI call in endzone that was uncatchable. Fumble we clearly recovered. Catch and fumble they called incomplete. JENSEN FUMBLE.

HOW MANY WENT OUR WAY? ZERO. CROOKED REFS.

What was the personal foul on Jemison? Helmet to helmet while he was going for the fumble in the scrum, right?

[onbison09]

Not to mention the 3rd down catch that clearly hit the turf. Should have punted instead next play is a td. How about the bogus personal fouls at key parts of the game. Questionable PI call in endzone that was uncatchable. Fumble we clearly recovered. Catch and fumble they called incomplete. JENSEN FUMBLE.

HOW MANY WENT OUR WAY? ZERO. CROOKED REFS.

I think they got that right. Anybody actually see what happened on the Richards call?

[HerdBot]

I think they got that right. Anybody actually see what happened on the Richards call?

I saw nothing.

[Da_Bison]

whats the deal with the cow bells?? and the fans moving to the end zone? Neither of these are allowed, are they??

[Tatanka]

I'm sad teh Bison put themselves in the position to have an official able to decide the outcome of the game...

[tony]

I'm sad teh Bison put themselves in the position to have an official able to decide the outcome of the game...

Exactly. When you have second and two and a chance to put them away... put them away.

[Bison"FANatic"]

Well it just isn't us that thought we were screwed. I took a look at the UNI, SDSU, Montana st and even the Sioux board think we were bent over with out lube by the replays. It is what it is and we should not have been in the position in the first place but if your going to have replay get it right. This has to sting for the guys.

Sounds like a good motivating tool for our guys next year. A big pic in the weight room of Brock having the ball on the ground with a caption underneath:

DON'T EVER AGAIN PUT THE REFS IN POSITION TO DECIDE THE GAME DECIDE IT YOURSELF!!!!!! GET STRONGER GET FASTER WORK HARDER

[bisoneer]

Yea they blew the calls but we still should have put it in the bag when we had the chances...

[Tatanka]

Well it just isn't us that thought we were screwed. I took a look at the UNI, SDSU, Montana st and even the Sioux board think we were bent over with out lube by the replays. It is what it is and we should not have been in the position in the first place but if your going to have replay get it right. This has to sting for the guys.

Sounds like a good motivating tool for our guys next year. A big pic in the weight room of Brock having the ball on the ground with a caption underneath:

DON'T EVER AGAIN PUT THE REFS IN POSITION TO DECIDE THE GAME DECIDE IT YOURSELF!!!!!! GET STRONGER GET FASTER WORK HARDER

Don't think for a second that that message isn't already seared onto their collective consciousness.

[WYOBISONMAN]

I think it was a bad call.....no doubt to me that Jensen was down and the ground caused the fumble.............BUT........the Bison didn't put it away and let EWU get in a position where a call could make the difference. When that happens......you are gonna loose some games. The Bison did not get it done.

But......all in all........this season was much, MUCH better than I expected. Great job by those Bison players!

[NDSUstudent]

Well it just isn't us that thought we were screwed. I took a look at the UNI, SDSU, Montana st and even the Sioux board think we were bent over with out lube by the replays. It is what it is and we should not have been in the position in the first place but if your going to have replay get it right. This has to sting for the guys.

Sounds like a good motivating tool for our guys next year. A big pic in the weight room of Brock having the ball on the ground with a caption underneath:

DON'T EVER AGAIN PUT THE REFS IN POSITION TO DECIDE THE GAME DECIDE IT YOURSELF!!!!!! GET STRONGER GET FASTER WORK HARDER

Yep just read a few threads and it is amazing how many think we were screwed.

[bisonhp330]

I think they got that right. Anybody actually see what happened on the Richards call?

that was actually the one time richards was in the right- he hit the guy- drove him to the ground- gets up with his hand on him and starts stepping over him- the guy grabs his leg and richards falls on top of him- the physical action was nothing- but with the idiot mouth he has....who knows- by my count it was #5 out of him- he needs to get his shit together

[1998braves64]

When my wife can call it without even asking me if there is some funky rule that allows EWU receivers to catch it on the bounce... something must be wrong, and I guess next year if someone lands on their back they can get up and keep running because they're not down.

Those of you saying well you shouldn't allow the refs to decide the game, NDSU was put in that position because of that first blown review and it allowed EWU to score a 64 yard TD when they should have been punting. So when EWU got the ball on their 10 it should have been NDSU 31 EWU 17. That would have created a whole different dynamic don't you think? Plus in a playoff game especially getting into quarterfinals... you're not going to be able to always blow the team out so a couple controversial calls can really cause a dramatic effect on the game as in this case it did. Blown call 1 lead directly to a TD. Blown call two lead directly to ending the game with opportunitIES for NDSU to score.

I was telling my wife they need to come up with a way for NCAA to look at these blown calls (FBS, FCS, DII etc) and penalize the refs making the calls for it to stop. I don't know if it could be monetary or suspension (which essentially would be monetary)?

I thought I saw and my wife did too one of the refs rule he was down, I thought one of the rules was that if one ref ruled him down, that was the ruling, because it seems to me that in other games I've seen a probable fumble and a ref rules it down and it stands because someone ruled it down even though the other ref threw his bean bag indicating a probable fumble. So the review should have gone into review as being called being down and had to be overturned into a fumble? But maybe I was mistaken in that a ref ruled it down.

One of my MSU Bobcats friends even said the refs screwed that one bad. Too bad we couldn't have had the same refs we did against MSU that was about the best called game we've had all year!

[DIBISON]

When my wife can call it without even asking me if there is some funky rule that allows EWU receivers to catch it on the bounce... something must be wrong, and I guess next year if someone lands on their back they can get up and keep running because they're not down.

Those of you saying well you shouldn't allow the refs to decide the game, NDSU was put in that position because of that first blown review and it allowed EWU to score a 64 yard TD when they should have been punting. So when EWU got the ball on their 10 it should have been NDSU 31 EWU 17. That would have created a whole different dynamic don't you think? Plus in a playoff game especially getting into quarterfinals... you're not going to be able to always blow the team out so a couple controversial calls can really cause a dramatic effect on the game as in this case it did. Blown call 1 lead directly to a TD. Blown call two lead directly to ending the game with opportunitIES for NDSU to score.

I was telling my wife they need to come up with a way for NCAA to look at these blown calls (FBS, FCS, DII etc) and penalize the refs making the calls for it to stop. I don't know if it could be monetary or suspension (which essentially would be monetary)?

I thought I saw and my wife did too one of the refs rule he was down, I thought one of the rules was that if one ref ruled him down, that was the ruling, because it seems to me that in other games I've seen a probable fumble and a ref rules it down and it stands because someone ruled it down even though the other ref threw his bean bag indicating a probable fumble. So the review should have gone into review as being called being down and had to be overturned into a fumble? But maybe I was mistaken in that a ref ruled it down.

One of my MSU Bobcats friends even said the refs screwed that one bad. Too bad we couldn't have had the same refs we did against MSU that was about the best called game we've had all year!

The game outcome will not change but you are right, especially on that 3rd down pass INCOMPLETION in the first quarter which led to the EWU touchdown on the next play.

[1998braves64]

Yeah I should have added that, all the crying and moaning isn't going to change the outcome now. But for me it's therapy... can't keep that stuff bottled up!

[bisonmike2]

Yep just read a few threads and it is amazing how many think we were screwed.

yeah we didn't do ourselves any favors but our team had to overcome a lot of other shitty calls just to be in that position. Then, during the most crucial time, it was robbed by the officials. The one fail safe, video reply, failed spectacularly. They took the decision out of the players hands, and ended the game themselves. If that isn't getting screwed, I don't know what is. It's a whole level beyond screwed and I shall refer to it as getting Fette'd. Dude we just got Fette'd.

[ndsubison1]

just watched the replay on WDAY. ground caused the fumble. jensen was down. should have won it before that, but whatever :uhyeah:

[56BISON73]

Was it a bad call? Yes. But we NEVER should have been in that position in the first place.

[unbison]

just watched the replay on WDAY. ground caused the fumble. jensen was down. should have won it before that, but whatever :uhyeah:

Should have never been in the refs hands! That game was ours for the taking!

[AO54]

Was it a bad call? Yes. But we NEVER should have been in that position in the first place.
What position is that? 3rd and goal from the 1inch line poised to tie the game?

[TateMosersneighbor]

that was actually the one time richards was in the right- he hit the guy- drove him to the ground- gets up with his hand on him and starts stepping over him- the guy grabs his leg and richards falls on top of him- the physical action was nothing- but with the idiot mouth he has....who knows- by my count it was #5 out of him- he needs to get his shit together

In a game of huge play after huge play...this really stunk. If I remember, we were winning by 7...driving for a score and this penalty made a 3rd and 1 turn into 3rd and 16...we then get a FG blocked.

I agree, he's talented...blah, blah, blah....but he's had WAY TOO MANY stupid penalties this year. We get a first down there the game is over.

[MNLonghorn10]

What position is that? 3rd and goal from the 1inch line poised to tie the game?

i think letting them convert on 2 4th downs in regulation, and marching down the field 90 yards in 2 minutes.

[Tatanka]

longhorn is right.


the least the refs could have done though is extend the courtesy of a reacharound. that was just poor on their part.

[Gully]

Yes, we could have put the game away earlier with a stop on one of the first downs or another first down of our own. Yes, if we would have blown them out we wouldn't have been in position to get screwed by some bad calls.

Separately, we got screwed by a couple of bad calls. I have yet to hear anyone have a good explanation for the "one hop catch" that led to a score or the game ending "ground caused fumble". I'll I've heard is "well, we shouldn't have been in that position". That's not an explanation for two horrible calls. It's not likely we're always going to be able to blow people out, especially very good teams like EWU.

I believe teams deserve good officiating ESPECIALLY in close games. Some of you sound like the team only deserves to win if they blow someone out?!?!?!?!?!?

[Gully]

BTW, EWU deserves credit for converting two fourth down plays on that drive. People need to remember they were in desparation mode, having to go for it on fourth down. We were in a very good position, just came up one play short.

[bisonmike2]

my final post on the crooked refs then I'm moving on to next years team.

http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/3715/capture2ci.png

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/9963/captureiqc.png

http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/883/capture3qt.png

[IzzyFlexion]

my final post on the crooked refs then I'm moving on to next years team.

http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/3715/capture2ci.png

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/9963/captureiqc.png

http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/883/capture3qt.png

Thanks alot, pal...........
Just when I was starting to calm down!
:D

[Gully]

I just don't see any possible reasonable explanation for this. I can understand officials are human (even Indy Bison:) ) but to miss it in the REPLAY PROCESS is unbelievable. I can't imagine a good explanation. It truly makes me question the integrity of the game.

If someone has a logical explanation...I'm all ears.

And yes, I know we had our chances to win but that's not relevent to my point.

[IzzyFlexion]

I just don't see any possible reasonable explanation for this. I can understand officials are human (even Indy Bison:) ) but to miss it in the REPLAY PROCESS is unbelievable. I can't imagine a good explanation. It truly makes me question the integrity of the game.

If someone has a logical explanation...I'm all ears.

And yes, I know we had our chances to win but that's not relevent to my point.

Twice the announcers said that the only thing that they could think of that would cause the call to stand was that perhaps he was juggling the ball as he placed it on the turf. I don't see how it is possible to be juggling a football and being able to reach it over your head while lying down at the same time.

[A1pigskin]

Between the refs and the clock I don't know which were worse. Probably refs.

[bisonmike2]

Thanks alot, pal...........
Just when I was starting to calm down!
:D

Sorry. I was calm too then I decided to take a look at the replay this morning. Then I got pissed again after seeing Brock laying on the ground long enough to take a nap before the ball came out. I got those screen shots in about 20 seconds from my pos computer. Bill Fette is a presumably a professional. You'd think he would have access to better equipment.

[A1pigskin]

Sorry. I was calm too then I decided to take a look at the replay this morning. Then I got pissed again after seeing Brock laying on the ground long enough to take a nap before the ball came out. I got those screen shots in about 20 seconds from my pos computer. Bill Fette is a presumably a professional. You'd think he would have access to better equipment.

I need to check my blood pressure. This is the biggest screw job that I've seen. By the way, good pics. Frame these and send it EWU, saying "Merry christmas." Send the bill to the refs. I hope NCAA reviews this.

[bisonmike2]

ok so I have a couple more.
http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/3286/fetted1.png


http://img837.imageshack.us/img837/3109/fetted2.png

what's worse about this one is you have a ref in perfect position and he blows the call. So now you have an incompetant ref on the field paired with one in the replay booth. I think the Bison did pretty good considering on several plays they had to deal with 11 EWU defenders in red and 2 extra wearing white and black.

[kalm]

You guys got some calls that went your way as well. I agree with those who understand that you've got to be good enough to overcome bad officiating.

But congrats on a great season. You have a talented team and solid fans.

[A1pigskin]

ok so I have a couple more.
http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/3286/fetted1.png


http://img837.imageshack.us/img837/3109/fetted2.png

what's worse about this one is you have a ref in perfect position and he blows the call. So now you have an incompetant ref on the field paired with one in the replay booth. I think the Bison did pretty good considering on several plays they had to deal with 11 EWU defenders in red and 2 extra wearing white and black.

ROFLMAO.......... Or crying.......

[Gully]

You guys got some calls that went your way as well. I agree with those who understand that you've got to be good enough to overcome bad officiating.

But congrats on a great season. You have a talented team and solid fans.

At least we agree it was bad officiating. Exactly how many points better do we need to be to overcome said bad officiating?

[A1pigskin]

At least we agree it was bad officiating. Exactly how many points better do we need to be to overcome said bad officiating?

I am guessing 10 points.

[IzzyFlexion]

ok so I have a couple more.
http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/3286/fetted1.png


http://img837.imageshack.us/img837/3109/fetted2.png

what's worse about this one is you have a ref in perfect position and he blows the call. So now you have an incompetant ref on the field paired with one in the replay booth. I think the Bison did pretty good considering on several plays they had to deal with 11 EWU defenders in red and 2 extra wearing white and black.

My internet feed was frozen during this part of the game.
2 questions.
1. was that a 4th down play?
2. was the first down marker right at the 30 or was it beyond the 30?

[Twentysix]

My internet feed was frozen during this part of the game.
2 questions.
1. was that a 4th down play?
2. was the first down marker right at the 30 or was it beyond the 30?

Either way he didnt have his hands underneath the ball, while he was in the air the actual ball touched the turf, thats an incomplete pass.....

his hands were on the pointy ends of the ball like this hand<==>hand, not underneath it. I believe it was third and more than 5. The next play would of been a punt but actually ended up being Taiwan jones best run.

[bisonmike2]

My internet feed was frozen during this part of the game.
2 questions.
1. was that a 4th down play?
2. was the first down marker right at the 30 or was it beyond the 30?

It was a 3rd down play. that play gave them a 1st down and the very next play Taiwon ran 60 plus yards for a TD. The angle is weird, he was coming back to the ball and had he actually caught it, he was in position to make it a first down.

[IzzyFlexion]

Either way he didnt have his hands underneath the ball, while he was in the air the actual ball touched the turf, thats an incomplete pass.....

his hands were on the pointy ends of the ball like this hand<==>hand, not underneath it.

My questions have more to do with the spot after declaring it complete.
In other words, if that was a 4th down play.....did they get at least get the spot right?

[bobcat89]

I'm an MSU fan so really didn't care who won the game yesterday and, unfortunately (had to Christmas shop with my wife) only saw the fourth quarter but just getting that small taste showed me what kind of game it really must have been. It was one of those games that you don't want to see end if you're a neutral observer. I was hoping you guys would score in OT and keep it going. Personally, I think you guys got screwed on the final call. It was clear to me that the runner was down before losing the ball. That said, it's always easy to look at one play (i.e. the Boise State loss) and focus on that but how about the personal foul one of your guys got when you would have had a third and short around their ten yard line with five minutes left and a 7 point lead? You end up getting the FG blocked and nothing out of the drive. Since I only saw the fourth quarter I'm sure you guys can point out several other things that if just one of them go your way you win the game.
As a high school coach myself, I always tell my players that you have to be so much better than your opponent, outscore them by so much, that you take the refs out of the game...you make them irrelevant. That's easier said that done but it's a philosophy that takes the focus away from one play that most people think lost the game (i.e. your fumble at the end). If you take care of business throughout the game then you don't have to depend on the refs making the right call.
You guys had a great season and a great team and your program is on the way up . Wish you would have joined the Big Sky with UND. Would have been fun to have two huge rivals in the same conference. What are your thoughts on that? It must be frustrating not to play UND every year. The Cat-Griz game is the biggest sporting event in Montana each year. Wouldn't it be nice to get the Bison-Sioux rivalry going again?

[No_Skill]

You guys got some calls that went your way as well. I agree with those who understand that you've got to be good enough to overcome bad officiating.

But congrats on a great season. You have a talented team and solid fans.

To which calls are you referring?

[bisonmike2]

To which calls are you referring?

the one where Jemison got a personal foul for going for the ball in the fumble pile? Oh wait. That one was against us too.

[IzzyFlexion]

It was a 3rd down play. that play gave them a 1st down and the very next play Taiwon ran 60 plus yards for a TD. The angle is weird, he was coming back to the ball and had he actually caught it, he was in position to make it a first down.

thanks.............

[No_Skill]

My questions have more to do with the spot after declaring it complete.
In other words, if that was a 4th down play.....did they get at least get the spot right?

If I remember right, he was well past the first down marker.

[semobison]

I thought the Instant replay ref's messed up a couple of tines in the Nova-App st. game also. In a couple of cases there, they wouldn,t reverse the call on the field?...Our biggest gift was when EWU's reciever dropped a sure TD that would of put us down 21-3....I agree, never should have went into overtime though...Damn the prevent defense!

[IndyBison]

I'm still trying to see a clear replay. Everything I've seen so far is from the webcasts and too small to see on my computer screen. When I saw the one replay during the espn3 live broadcast I thought he was down but wasn't sure if the ball was coming loose as he was throwing his arms forward. They didn't show another one after I saw that. I'm guessing the replay official saw the same thing and that doubt may have caused him to uphold the ruling on the field.

If the Referee announces "the ruling on the field stands" that means the replay official didn't see enough evidence to overturn the call on the field. If he would have said "the ruling on the field is confirmed" that means the replay official felt the officials on the field definitely got it right.

Still pictures are worthless on a play like this because you can't tell what kind of control the runner has on the ball. Same with the catch near the sideline. I wasn't watching yet when that play happened so I haven't seen it yet.

The Bison may have been on the wrong end of a couple very close judgment calls (we were probably on the right end of a couple as well but as fans we don't notice or remember those...for example I thought I saw a hold on Siger's KO return), but these were not horrible officiating errors. They were very tough close calls. I bet I could show good video of this to a group of officials (who have no vested interest in the outcome or knowledge of what was ruled) and there would probably not be a 100% consensus.

As fans, feel free to criticise a call like this. It's a close judgment call that could have gone either way and both teams would have felt cheated based on the decision. That's what makes us fans. I'm glad to see most of us still praising the Bison for their incredible season and realize this isn't the only reason we lost the game. The future is very bright!!

[Gully]

I'm an MSU fan so really didn't care who won the game yesterday and, unfortunately (had to Christmas shop with my wife) only saw the fourth quarter but just getting that small taste showed me what kind of game it really must have been. It was one of those games that you don't want to see end if you're a neutral observer. I was hoping you guys would score in OT and keep it going. Personally, I think you guys got screwed on the final call. It was clear to me that the runner was down before losing the ball. That said, it's always easy to look at one play (i.e. the Boise State loss) and focus on that but how about the personal foul one of your guys got when you would have had a third and short around their ten yard line with five minutes left and a 7 point lead? You end up getting the FG blocked and nothing out of the drive. Since I only saw the fourth quarter I'm sure you guys can point out several other things that if just one of them go your way you win the game.
As a high school coach myself, I always tell my players that you have to be so much better than your opponent, outscore them by so much, that you take the refs out of the game...you make them irrelevant. That's easier said that done but it's a philosophy that takes the focus away from one play that most people think lost the game (i.e. your fumble at the end). If you take care of business throughout the game then you don't have to depend on the refs making the right call.
You guys had a great season and a great team and your program is on the way up . Wish you would have joined the Big Sky with UND. Would have been fun to have two huge rivals in the same conference. What are your thoughts on that? It must be frustrating not to play UND every year. The Cat-Griz game is the biggest sporting event in Montana each year. Wouldn't it be nice to get the Bison-Sioux rivalry going again?

The personal foul call I thought was crap as well.

I agree if we blew everyone out we would diminish our chances of getting screwed by the refs. Sadly, no team can always blow everyone out.

[bisonmike2]

I'm still trying to see a clear replay. Everything I've seen so far is from the webcasts and too small to see on my computer screen. When I saw the one replay during the espn3 live broadcast I thought he was down but wasn't sure if the ball was coming loose as he was throwing his arms forward. They didn't show another one after I saw that. I'm guessing the replay official saw the same thing and that doubt may have caused him to uphold the ruling on the field.

If the Referee announces "the ruling on the field stands" that means the replay official didn't see enough evidence to overturn the call on the field. If he would have said "the ruling on the field is confirmed" that means the replay official felt the officials on the field definitely got it right.

Still pictures are worthless on a play like this because you can't tell what kind of control the runner has on the ball. Same with the catch near the sideline. I wasn't watching yet when that play happened so I haven't seen it yet.

The Bison may have been on the wrong end of a couple very close judgment calls (we were probably on the right end of a couple as well but as fans we don't notice or remember those...for example I thought I saw a hold on Siger's KO return), but these were not horrible officiating errors. They were very tough close calls. I bet I could show good video of this to a group of officials (who have no vested interest in the outcome or knowledge of what was ruled) and there would probably not be a 100% consensus.

As fans, feel free to criticise a call like this. It's a close judgment call that could have gone either way and both teams would have felt cheated based on the decision. That's what makes us fans. I'm glad to see most of us still praising the Bison for their incredible season and realize this isn't the only reason we lost the game. The future is very bright!!

Rationale insight is not allowed in this thread! :D

[02Bison]

The personal foul call I thought was crap as well.

I agree if we blew everyone out we would diminish our chances of getting screwed by the refs. Sadly, no team can always blow everyone out.

Or continually spotting opponents 14 points before sacking up and playing.

[IndyBison]

Rationale insight is not allowed in this thread! :D

I'm sorry. I won't do it again. I know message boards are for irrational thoughts only. :D

[Gully]

Or continually spotting opponents 14 points before sacking up and playing.

And even despite that we were still there right at the end, going with the ball near the goal line and then.............

[No_Skill]

I'm sorry. I won't do it again. I know message boards are for irrational thoughts only. :D

I was actually waiting for your insight on the call.

[99Bison]

Not over turning those replay's were not judgement calls, they were plain as day.
- On the catch replay you could even see the ball even bounce unevenly off the turf.
- On the fumble elbow (at least) down.

[No_Skill]

Not over turning those replay's were not judgement calls, they were plain as day.
- On the catch replay you could even see the ball even bounce unevenly off the turf.
- On the fumble elbow (at least) down.


Plus...his ass was down before the elbow. Pretty sure and ass equals an elbow. :D

[onbison09]

Plus...his ass was down before the elbow. Pretty sure and ass equals an elbow. :D

Where's Madden when you need him?

[IzzyFlexion]

Dude, he was down.http://www.forefrogmen.com/resources/_referee1$5B1$5D.jpeg
______________________

[kalm]

At least we agree it was bad officiating. Exactly how many points better do we need to be to overcome said bad officiating?

1 point better:D

[bisonmike2]

Dude, he was down.http://www.forefrogmen.com/resources/_referee1$5B1$5D.jpeg
______________________

if yesterdays refs looked like that, I would forgive them.

[kalm]

Bad calls are like turnovers and injuries. They happen to everyone. I could use the latter two to make excuses about why the score was as close as it was. When Taiwan Jones went down in the MSU game, we got our butts handed to us. We then responded the next week on the road at a solid Weber State by sucking it up and dominating without him. Now he's likely to miss the semifinal with a broken foot. If so we'll need to do the same.

You guys have a solid program with a bright future, and I feel fortunate to get past you.

[cats2506]

Bad calls are like turnovers and injuries. They happen to everyone. I could use the latter two to make excuses about why the score was as close as it was. When Taiwan Jones went down in the MSU game, we got our butts handed to us. We then responded the next week on the road at a solid Weber State by sucking it up and dominating without him. Now he's likely to miss the semifinal with a broken foot. If so we'll need to do the same.

You guys have a solid program with a bright future, and I feel fortunate to get past you.

Your screwed now!

[kalm]

It would be tough without him. But we've heard that before.

[No_Skill]

Bad calls are like turnovers and injuries. They happen to everyone. I could use the latter two to make excuses about why the score was as close as it was. When Taiwan Jones went down in the MSU game, we got our butts handed to us. We then responded the next week on the road at a solid Weber State by sucking it up and dominating without him. Now he's likely to miss the semifinal with a broken foot. If so we'll need to do the same.

You guys have a solid program with a bright future, and I feel fortunate to get past you.

If he really has a broken foot this game will be a laugher. :smh:

Edit: ...and I'm not just talking about people making fun of the turf. :D

[Gully]

It would be tough without him. But we've heard that before.

Maybe, but he was THE difference maker yesterday. EWU loses yesterday without him.....he put us in too deep a hole to dig out from and stay out.

[X-Factor]

If Nova is even close to as good as the Bison (I suspect they are at least as good as NDSU), EWU is going to be in a huge hurt bag without Jones. This game would have been a blowout without him.

[No_Skill]

The spread should be set at about 10 or 11 pts.

[HandoEX]

There was a catch in the Nova/Appy game just like the one on the sideline where the player had caught the ball with the ball hitting the turf. It was called the same in both games and was reviewed both games.

[No_Skill]

There was a catch in the Nova/Appy game just like the one on the sideline where the player had caught the ball with the ball hitting the turf. It was called the same in both games and was reviewed both games.


Yep I saw both of them and I thought of that play right away when our play was being reviewed. Of the two, I thought the one in our game had a higher chance of being overturned. I saw more movement as the ball hit the turf in our game.

[Twentysix]

the one where Jemison got a personal foul for going for the ball in the fumble pile? Oh wait. That one was against us too.

So how about that roughing the kicker call?

It looked to me like our player never actually hit the kicker, he slid on his belly underneath the kickers raised leg, and when the kicker was bringing his footdown he landed it on our players back causing the kicker to fall over. (aka the impact was caused by the kicker, making him lose his balance)

Atleast thats what it looked like to me on the replay

[IzzyFlexion]

Was he down Ray?? http://i.acdn.us/image/A3483/348326/300_348326.jpg

Yah, he was down. http://www.soulsvilleusa.com/_images/content/ray_charles_smoking.jpg

Was he down Jose?? http://i.acdn.us/image/A3483/348326/300_348326.jpg
Yah, he was down. http://www.stgabss.net/SpecialNeeds/images/stories/famous/jose.jpg

Was he down Jeff?? http://i.acdn.us/image/A3483/348326/300_348326.jpg
Yah, he was down. http://img2.timeinc.net/people/i/2008/news/080317/jeff_healey.jpg

Was he down Ronnie?? http://i.acdn.us/image/A3483/348326/300_348326.jpg
Yah, he was down. http://www.biography.com/biocountry/images/episode_images/milsap_ronnie_320x240.jpg

Was he down Helen?? http://i.acdn.us/image/A3483/348326/300_348326.jpg

Yah, he was down. http://www.rightattitudes.com/blogincludes/images/Helen_Keller_and_Anne_Sullivan.jpg

Does it appear obvious that I'm having a hard time letting this go?:p

[semobison]

Nova, defending national champions, CAA, they are good! What impressed me the most, watching them take down App, yesterday was they are Big, fast, balanced, did I say big....Really, I didnt see any weaknesses. Hard to say it, but I think were in for an all CAA final, Nova-Delaware.

[bri-dog]

Like several people have already stated, yeah we should have stopped them in regulation. That said, however...I just watched the last play again, and the camera shot of Brock after they upheld the call. I'm pretty sure I read his lips correctly, and I think Brock said it all.
"Are you fu(king kidding???!!!"

[bisonmike2]

Was he down Ray?? http://i.acdn.us/image/A3483/348326/300_348326.jpg

Yah, he was down. http://www.soulsvilleusa.com/_images/content/ray_charles_smoking.jpg

Was he down Jose?? http://i.acdn.us/image/A3483/348326/300_348326.jpg
Yah, he was down. http://www.stgabss.net/SpecialNeeds/images/stories/famous/jose.jpg

Was he down Jeff?? http://i.acdn.us/image/A3483/348326/300_348326.jpg
Yah, he was down. http://img2.timeinc.net/people/i/2008/news/080317/jeff_healey.jpg

Was he down Ronnie?? http://i.acdn.us/image/A3483/348326/300_348326.jpg
Yah, he was down. http://www.biography.com/biocountry/images/episode_images/milsap_ronnie_320x240.jpg

Was he down Helen?? http://i.acdn.us/image/A3483/348326/300_348326.jpg

Yah, he was down. http://www.rightattitudes.com/blogincludes/images/Helen_Keller_and_Anne_Sullivan.jpg

Does it appear obvious that I'm having a hard time letting this go?:p

http://i.acdn.us/image/A3483/348326/300_348326.jpg

Was he down tony?

http://www.talktalk.co.uk/media/images/feeds/reuters/entertainment/2008/05/28/150/2008-05-28t022008z_01_nootr_rtridsp_2_ouken-uk-newyork-sopranos-auction.jpg
"Are you f*cking kidding me? I got 50 large on this game. It was a fumble."

[tony]

Villanova looked very good.

That said, may the better team win.

[Bison"FANatic"]

Villanova looked very good.

That said, may the better team win.

That team will be Villanova and it won't be close. Villanova looked not just good but Championship good. They say anygiven saturday but I don't think will be close. And to be perfectly honest we could not have handled Villanova this year either.

Just my .02

[Mr. Burgundy]

man am I pissed about that shitfest yesterday. The one hop catch killed us. I just knew that was going to sting. Score from 69 yards on the next play. Brock was down. Everyone knows it. SIMPLE. Just a joke.

It took away the energy in the dome last night as we kicked the crap out of UND. It took away the biggest sporting event in Fargo history (next week's home game). It ended the season for an amazing group of student/athlete's and ended the career of several great seniors that brough Bison football back after last year's mess. That is what is too bad. The ref had an easy call to make. EVERYONE watching was like.....It's ok, they will overturn that and we will be on the one inch line....this one is going to double OT. Instead, they steal that game from our grasp.

Hopefully we use this as motivation. Hopefully we continue to recruit like crazy and our kids have improved with this experience and additional month of practice after the bunnied checked their equipment in and went fishing.

[HerdBot]

man am I pissed about that shitfest yesterday. The one hop catch killed us. I just knew that was going to sting. Score from 69 yards on the next play. Brock was down. Everyone knows it. SIMPLE. Just a joke.

It took away the energy in the dome last night as we kicked the crap out of UND. It took away the biggest sporting event in Fargo history (next week's home game). It ended the season for an amazing group of student/athlete's and ended the career of several great seniors that brough Bison football back after last year's mess. That is what is too bad. The ref had an easy call to make. EVERYONE watching was like.....It's ok, they will overturn that and we will be on the one inch line....this one is going to double OT. Instead, they steal that game from our grasp.

Hopefully we use this as motivation. Hopefully we continue to recruit like crazy and our kids have improved with this experience and additional month of practice after the bunnied checked their equipment in and went fishing.

Great post.++

[56BISON73]

What position is that? 3rd and goal from the 1inch line poised to tie the game?

For starters---How many turn overs did we get that we didnt capitalize on?

[gotts]

So how about that roughing the kicker call?

It looked to me like our player never actually hit the kicker, he slid on his belly underneath the kickers raised leg, and when the kicker was bringing his footdown he landed it on our players back causing the kicker to fall over. (aka the impact was caused by the kicker, making him lose his balance)

Atleast thats what it looked like to me on the replay

I could be wrong, but when the kicker is in motion, he is entitled to the space below him. So, if you don't allow him to make a clean landing, it's going to be a penalty. Weak sauce, I know.

[onbison09]

I could be wrong, but when the kicker is in motion, he is entitled to the space below him. So, if you don't allow him to make a clean landing, it's going to be a penalty. Weak sauce, I know.

Good call. Weak rule.

[Swaghook]

what is the rule about running into the kicker on field goals? They ran into our kicker and nothing was called on a field goal attempt.

[1998braves64]

If it was on the blocked one it doesn't matter then I think some way or another on blocked ones it doesn't matter.

[IndyBison]

If it was on the blocked one it doesn't matter then I think some way or another on blocked ones it doesn't matter.

Correct. If you block the kick, contact with the kicker is allowed. It doesn't give you free reign on the kicker but the contact is usually part of making the block. Let's say a guy near the line of scrimmage blocks the kick. That doesn't mean someone else can hit the kicker.

As for the Bison foul, I believe they called running into the kicker - 5 yard version. Some argue that should go away like the 5-yard face mask. I don't disagree. This was an easy call though. Very unfortunate because I think he slipped on the rush but it was the right call.

[BadlandsBison]

Yep, if my memory is correct that was the play where they blocked the kick. Kicker is free game after the ball is touched.

[perthbison]

The personal foul call I thought was crap as well.



What exactly did Austin do on that play?

[BisonCountry]

What exactly did Austin do on that play?

Watched the game today and from what i could tell a EWU player tackled him as he tried to step over the pile. Not sure if anything was said on the field, but from what i could tell the call was very suspect and a real back breaker imo as it forced us into 3rd and long and then eventually a blocked FG.

[perthbison]

Watched the game today and from what i could tell a EWU player tackled him as he tried to step over the pile. Not sure if anything was said on the field, but from what i could tell the call was very suspect and a real back breaker imo as it forced us into 3rd and long and then eventually a blocked FG.

Thanks for filling me in. I watched it live and didn't catch it. Another close one that went against us. Almost seemed like a pattern developing.

[IzzyFlexion]

Like several people have already stated, yeah we should have stopped them in regulation. That said, however...I just watched the last play again, and the camera shot of Brock after they upheld the call. I'm pretty sure I read his lips correctly, and I think Brock said it all.
"Are you fu(king kidding???!!!"

Oh man!!
That's unacceptable.
I'm sure Brock will be disciplined for being angry about a bad call. As many have stated, all Bison players, coaches, and fans are supposed be OK with this because the team didn't deserve to get to that point in the game anyway. In ther words, after the defensive collapse on the Eagles last series resulting in the tying score, Bohl should have walked to midfield during the pre-overtime coin toss and conceded the game.
I imagine the conversation going something like this:
"You know what you guys, we really have no business even going to overtime because we had so many opportunities to put you away during regulation. I'd hate to have the overtime outcome decided by a bad call because then we would appear to have sour grapes instead of a legitimate reason to question a call." "So, good job, game over....good luck next week, we got a plane to catch. Did you know our basketball team is playing UND tonight?"

[bri-dog]

Oh man!!
That's unacceptable.
I'm sure Brock will be disciplined for being angry about a bad call. As many have stated, all Bison players, coaches, and fans are supposed be OK with this because the team didn't deserve to get to that point in the game anyway. In ther words, after the defensive collapse on the Eagles last series resulting in the tying score, Bohl should have walked to midfield during the pre-overtime coin toss and conceded the game.
I imagine the conversation going something like this:
"You know what you guys, we really have no business even going to overtime because we had so many opportunities to put you away during regulation. I'd hate to have the overtime outcome decided by a bad call because then we would appear to have sour grapes instead of a legitimate reason to question a call." "So, good job, game over....good luck next week, we got a plane to catch. Did you know our basketball team is playing UND tonight?"

I don't think he was "angry" per se, he was just dazed, looked like he had a hard time believing they didn't overturn it. He didn't get in a ref's face or anything like that.

[IzzyFlexion]

I don't think he was "angry" per se, he was just dazed, looked like he had a hard time believing they didn't overturn it. He didn't get in a ref's face or anything like that.

I'll bet you a trillion dollars he was pissed. If he wasn't, he would have to have been unconscious or completely indifferent about the team's welfare. He didn't get into any referee's face because he's able to keep his composure. Admirable. I'm not afraid to admit that I may not have been so in control after that ending.

[bri-dog]

Yeah, I'm sure he was angry. I just meant he didn't yell at any ref in particular (from what I could tell). Just looked more like disbelief to me.

[HerdBot]

The fans ran onto the field when they made the call. The decision hadnt been made yet and they had to get them off the field. Should that have been a personal foul penalty? I thought a game can't end with a penalty. Or was it because it was after the play? Anyone know the rules.

[semobison]

Izzy your a piece of work! The reason Im Ok with the officiating, or lack there of is...ITS OVER AND I CANT DO A F@%^ING THING ABOUT IT, AND I REFUSE TO LET THE OFFICIALS RUIN THE REST OF MY WEEKEND! ...My apology for blowing up!

[IndyBison]

The fans ran onto the field when they made the call. The decision hadnt been made yet and they had to get them off the field. Should that have been a personal foul penalty? I thought a game can't end with a penalty. Or was it because it was after the play? Anyone know the rules.
There would not be a penalty for fans on the field. If coaches or players came on the field from the bench DURING a play, it's either unsportsmanlike conduct or illegal participation but not a personal foul. Personal foul penalties almost always involve personal contact between opposing players.

You are correct that the game can not end on an accepted penalty by either team. Most people think it only applies on a defensive penalty (again thanks to announcers) but it's actually any accepted penalty with a few exceptions (non-player or unsportsmanline fouls or fouls that carry a loss-of-down provision). It's usually only defensive penalties because the defense is not likely to accept a penalty if it will give the offense another play. But let's say the offense scores a TD as time expires but gets called for holding. The defense is going to accept the penalty because of the TD. The period is extended for an untimed down because it ended on a play with an accepted penalty. This applies to any period and not just the end of the game.

The NFL rules for extending periods are different as there are some situations that would extend a period in NCAA and HS that don't apply in the NFL.

[IzzyFlexion]

Izzy your a piece of work! The reason Im Ok with the officiating, or lack there of is...ITS OVER AND I CANT DO A F@%^ING THING ABOUT IT, AND I REFUSE TO LET THE OFFICIALS RUIN THE REST OF MY WEEKEND! ...My apology for blowing up!

I'm not sure how to take that?
But, I certainly hold no ill will against anyone for feeling differently about this than I do. I'm just one of those personalities that gets really pissed when something like that happens.
As Bergundy said, (I'm actually paraphrasing)....the table was being set perfectly for a public relations explosion next week in Fargo that would have propelled this program to an even more fantastic level. Epic? Oh, yes.....mucho epic.

[semobison]

Take er with a grain of salt Izzy! Or a shaker of salt and la lemon slice!! Bottom line. Referees are part of the game, and you know they did a decent job when you didnt notice them at all!

[IndyBison]

Take er with a grain of salt Izzy! Or a shaker of salt and la lemon slice!! Bottom line. Referees are part of the game, and you know they did a decent job when you didnt notice them at all!

That's another interesting quote. It's also a goal of most officials but sometimes the ball doesn't bounce their way. This play was a perfect example. No matter what they decided on that play, everybody would have noticed them. You can't be completely invisible.

[IndyBison]

Trying to watch the replay on ESPN3.com and just saw the 3rd down pass on the EWU second series. On a small screen of a webcast it is so hard to tell but it definitely looked like it hit the ground. The only way I can see that as a catch is if his hands were at least somewhat under the ball. The ball can contact the turf as part of the catch as long as the ground wasn't used to help complete the catch. Those of you who have the TV broadcast probably had a much better view than me. Not as obvious as many described but I think it was incomplete.

[houndawg]

Not to mention the 3rd down catch that clearly hit the turf. Should have punted instead next play is a td. How about the bogus personal fouls at key parts of the game. Questionable PI call in endzone that was uncatchable. Fumble we clearly recovered. Catch and fumble they called incomplete. JENSEN FUMBLE.

HOW MANY WENT OUR WAY? ZERO. CROOKED REFS.

NDSU was penalized 4 times for 50 yards. Only one was for a personal foul. Please.

[gotts]

NDSU was penalized 4 times for 50 yards. Only one was for a personal foul. Please.

Two personal fouls, one in the first half, one in the second half.

[IndyBison]

I've watched the replay on espn3 a couple times and I still think he was down. I can understand the on field officials ruling fumble because it's a bang bang play and replay CAN correct an obvious error if you let it go. If you rule down and replay shows it was a fumble it can not be reviewed. Officials who work games with replay are instructed to lean this way on close plays. The problem is the replay officials are instructed to only overturn a call on the field if there is overwhelming evidence it was wrong. My guess here is the replay's definition of "overwhelming" wasn't enough in this play. I think there is some question on whether the ball was coming loose as he was reaching forward before he was down but I think he still had possession when his arms hit the ground and the ball popped out.

This play is a perfect example of why instant replay is not always a good thing. If the officials did not have replay, this most likely would have been ruled down on the field. The philosophy I've been taught is to lean toward down if it's this close because you don't want to allow a cheap turnover. But replay changes that philosophy because you can't review a play for fumble/no-fumble if the runner is ruled down. Then add in the "overwhelming" evidence criteria and replay doesn't help the situation but hurts it.

Careful what you ask you when it comes to replay. It's not a perfect system either.

[semobison]

The ruling on the field was fumble, touchback! The replay official agreed! I dont know if replay is good or not in the FCS games, because of lack of camera's. There were a couple of instances in the Nova-App game where I thought the replay official would overturn the play on the field, and they didnt..... I know what Vince Lombardi would say about this replay shit....WHAT IN THE HELL IS GOING ON OUT THERE!

[lakesbison]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPGW_81TleI

the play

[lakesbison]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPGW_81TleI

here you go

[semobison]

I dont think there has been much argument anywhere that this was a blown call! Even EWU's fans agree! At this point we just have to live with it!

[HandoEX]

Are you just trying to prolong the sting, because that replay sucked. YOu couldn't see crap. I thought it would be a replay of some new angle or a super slow motion view. No, this vid SUCKS!

[lakesbison]

I agree Handox. but it's all we got, unless someone in the Clown Turf Grassy Knoll comes out with some video.

[mebisonII]

Its over. Move on to next year. Dwelling on all the coulda, woulda, shoulda (no shortage of those, of course) will only make you mad and not change anything.

We made it a heck of a lot longer than any of us thought we would after the Miss. State game and the future looks bright for next year.

[bisonhp330]

I loved how Bohl put it on his show- cant really discuss it because he would be in trouble so him and Phil talk about the replay in the MVC- Bohl talks about how it needs to be done right...cameras, proper protocol- pause...then emphasis on " a competent person in the booth doing reviews".

that would be an indirect zziiiinnnng :bow:

[IndyBison]

The ruling on the field was fumble, touchback! The replay official agreed! I dont know if replay is good or not in the FCS games, because of lack of camera's. There were a couple of instances in the Nova-App game where I thought the replay official would overturn the play on the field, and they didnt..... I know what Vince Lombardi would say about this replay shit....WHAT IN THE HELL IS GOING ON OUT THERE!

Key point: the replay official didn't necessarily agree. He just didn't see enough to overturn it. There are two very specific announcements the referee is supposed to give:

The ruling on the field stands = not enough to overturn
The ruling on the field is confirmed = replay showed the correct call was made

In this situation it was the former and not the latter so the replay official didn't necessarily agree with the call on the field. He just didn't have enough evidence to overturn the ruling on the field.

In general I like replay but it's not perfect.

[tony]

Key point: the replay official didn't necessarily agree. He just didn't see enough to overturn it. There are two very specific announcements the referee is supposed to give:

The ruling on the field stands = not enough to overturn
The ruling on the field is confirmed = replay showed the correct call was made

In this situation it was the former and not the latter so the replay official didn't necessarily agree with the call on the field. He just didn't have enough evidence to overturn the ruling on the field.

In general I like replay but it's not perfect.

On the other hand, Indy, in real time, I couldn't believe they called that a fumble. After seeing the replay, it was absolutely surreal.

It kind of make me think that plays might not get overturned because refs want to have each other's backs.

[bisonmike2]

On the other hand, Indy, in real time, I couldn't believe they called that a fumble. After seeing the replay, it was absolutely surreal.

It kind of make me think that plays might not get overturned because refs want to have each other's backs.

How did they not confer in the endzone after making that call? Considering what was at stake it would have been nice to see the officials huddle and go over what they saw and what the implications would be. They didn't so the call went to replay with it being ruled a fumble without any discussion.

[coldspot]

I'm seeing a problem with that "overwhelming" word. anybody have some insight if they elaborate more on the definition of overwhelming in the officials handbook (looking at you referees)? if they dont define "overwhelming" for the officials, that leaves it wide open to interpretation for the officiating crew. that's a little too subjective for my liking.

[SDbison]

The so called ref in the booth is a POS and should never referee a college game again. All sorts of excuses for him like poor camera work, etc., but from what they showed during the game this referee in the booth (assuming he was not biased) doesn't know the rules. Just a joke.
Sure, Bison should have taken care of things, but this is the way things turned out. What an a$$wipe of a booth guy. Hope he can live with himself, but I am sure he is too ignorant to know how bad he screwed up. When the referees do his review I say he gets an F.

[onbison09]

On the other hand, Indy, in real time, I couldn't believe they called that a fumble. After seeing the replay, it was absolutely surreal.

It kind of make me think that plays might not get overturned because refs want to have each other's backs.

This. Kind of like the whole no make up calls thing. (Indy you're not going to convince me otherwise :D)

[Siouxfallsbison]

The so called ref in the booth is a POS and should never referee a college game again. All sorts of excuses for him like poor camera work, etc., but from what they showed during the game this referee in the booth (assuming he was not biased) doesn't know the rules. Just a joke.
Sure, Bison should have taken care of things, but this is the way things turned out. What an a$$wipe of a booth guy. Hope he can live with himself, but I am sure he is too ignorant to know how bad he screwed up. When the referees do his review I say he gets an F.

Both replay calls were terrible. I thought the worst "screw job" of the day was the pass interference call.:ranting:
We can whine all we want, but its over. I feel bad for the seniors but we are going to be tougher than nails the next 3 to 4 years and this playoff game will only make our players hungry.:nod:

[tcbison]

So going back to the last play, it seems like there is only 1 person who thought it was a fumble. I can't find anyone else who is being objective that thought it was a fumble and that is after looking at many websites and getting opinions. That is what really sucks.

My question is what is the harm in such a controversial call to just play the play over again? If EWU stops NDSU then they win fair and square and we don't have to end the game on the decision of one ref. If NDSU scores then they play a 2nd OT. Seems like the more logical way to decide the game to me.

[HerdBot]

So going back to the last play, it seems like there is only 1 person who thought it was a fumble. I can't find anyone else who is being objective that thought it was a fumble and that is after looking at many websites and getting opinions. That is what really sucks.

My question is what is the harm in such a controversial call to just play the play over again? If EWU stops NDSU then they win fair and square and we don't have to end the game on the decision of one ref. If NDSU scores then they play a 2nd OT. Seems like the more logical way to decide the game to me.

Heck, most of the EWU fans agree it was at terrible call! That' s not even the issue. It's WHY was it blown?

I still contend that there is a reason they only called 2 penalties on EWU all day and our 5 came at the most critical times.

[SDbison]

So going back to the last play, it seems like there is only 1 person who thought it was a fumble. I can't find anyone else who is being objective that thought it was a fumble and that is after looking at many websites and getting opinions. That is what really sucks.

My question is what is the harm in such a controversial call to just play the play over again? If EWU stops NDSU then they win fair and square and we don't have to end the game on the decision of one ref. If NDSU scores then they play a 2nd OT. Seems like the more logical way to decide the game to me.
Exactly......
I don't see how the booth ref fucks the call up unless he had a bias or was "afraid" to overrule his fellow ref on the field. Why have replay reviews then?
Sure EWU won........played a tough game with the Bison, but the ref made the final difference in the outcome, not EWU. That is where I have the issue. Just wonder what the replay ref thinks now and what was his rationale for blowing the decision.

[bisonpride]

After review this is clearly the WORST call of the day on the field without question. For those who didn't see it and were upset at Richard for the personal foul, now you know why all of his teammates were chasing the ref about the call. BRUTAL!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsG4QKv6KOI

[onbison09]

After review this is clearly the WORST call of the day on the field without question. For those who didn't see it and were upset at Richard for the personal foul, now you know why all of his teammates were chasing the ref about the call. BRUTAL!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsG4QKv6KOI

He had to have said something (I know who cares if he did) but wow. Really makes you wonder if sports are rigged?

[Bison"FANatic"]

Wow just wow. I hadn't went back and watch that.

[Bison bison]

I think the ref thought Richards was making contact after the play, when really the Eagle grabbed him by the knee and took him down.

That should have gone the other way. It would have been first and goal at the 1.

[NDSUstudent]

He had to have said something (I know who cares if he did) but wow. Really makes you wonder if sports are rigged?

That flag went as soon as Austin hit the ground, he didn't have time to say anything. Bisonpride send that into the CAA office, this is their best crew afterall.

[HerdBot]

After review this is clearly the WORST call of the day on the field without question. For those who didn't see it and were upset at Richard for the personal foul, now you know why all of his teammates were chasing the ref about the call. BRUTAL!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsG4QKv6KOI

Wow he tripped on him and they call a PF? Are you serious? Looks like they were LOOKING for anything to bail them out.

[90BISON]

Yep, that one on Austin (Prichard.....?? LOL) was over the top! At the time I was like, WTH did he do? It's now a personal foul penalty to trip over someone laying on the field??? :ranting:

[Bison bison]

Wow he tripped on him and they call a PF? Are you serious? Looks like they were LOOKING for anything to bail them out.

he didn't trip on him, he was taken down.

[NDSUstudent]

Yep, it was a cheap shot by EWU.

[CAS4127]

Yep, it was a cheap shot by EWU.

Big time-- and the ref overreacted because he almost got physically caught up in it.

[Bison bison]

Yep, it was a cheap shot by EWU.

Ding ding ding!

#10 Zach Johnson we have you on film being a douche!

[onbison09]

That flag went as soon as Austin hit the ground, he didn't have time to say anything. Bisonpride send that into the CAA office, this is their best crew afterall.

http://www.lies.com/wp/images/2009/12/srsly.jpg

[Bison bison]

Big time-- and the ref overreacted because he almost got physically caught up in it.

Ding Ding Ding #2.

The ref was wrong calling the penalty even if it would have been on Zach "I will cheat to win" Johnson.

[HerdBot]

he didn't trip on him, he was taken down.

I didn't see that but now that I look closer... holy crap! How can these refs suck so bad? I mean seriously? What is their deal? I think these guys are damn crooked. 2 penalties on EWU all game? Every Bison penalty occured at a key moment.

If it happens once it's random.
If it happens twice it's a coincindence.
It it happens 5 times it's a trend.
These guys are f-ing crooked.
They are either emotionally influenced, stupid, or in some sort of conspiricy.

[IndyBison]

On the other hand, Indy, in real time, I couldn't believe they called that a fumble. After seeing the replay, it was absolutely surreal.

It kind of make me think that plays might not get overturned because refs want to have each other's backs.

Fair comment on the real-time call. I disagree but only because bang-bang plays like that are not always easy to see, especially with all the bodies in and around the ball. When they are that close and instant replay is in play, they are taught to err on the side of fumble. The LJ could very well still get a downgrade on the fumble call even though he only did what he was instructed to do. Replay is not there to cover their backs. It's to get it right. I understand why you think that way. Does anyone know if FCS has used instant replay previously. Since the field officials aren't used to using it and the stadiums aren't used to having it I wonder how many gliches there are.

Someone else mentioned the officials huddling and I did see a couple of them get together quickly. Unless someone had absolute knowledge the runner was down, there isn't much a longer conversation could have resulted in. Only 2 officials would be looking at Jensen at this point and 1 of them (referee--white hat) would have definitely not had a view from where he is. That leaves the LJ (LOS official on the near sideline) as the only official with responsibility for the runner. The field judge (deep corner pylon on near side), back judge (deep middle on end line), and umpire (middle near LBs) are watching blockers primarily but may pick up the runner and help. If one of them saw him down, they would go to the LJ and have the conversation you are talking about. If they only "think" he may have been down, they don't have applicable knowledge.

[Hammersmith]

Fair comment on the real-time call. I disagree but only because bang-bang plays like that are not always easy to see, especially with all the bodies in and around the ball. When they are that close and instant replay is in play, they are taught to err on the side of fumble. The LJ could very well still get a downgrade on the fumble call even though he only did what he was instructed to do. Replay is not there to cover their backs. It's to get it right. I understand why you think that way. Does anyone know if FCS has used instant replay previously. Since the field officials aren't used to using it and the stadiums aren't used to having it I wonder how many gliches there are.

Someone else mentioned the officials huddling and I did see a couple of them get together quickly. Unless someone had absolute knowledge the runner was down, there isn't much a longer conversation could have resulted in. Only 2 officials would be looking at Jensen at this point and 1 of them (referee--white hat) would have definitely not had a view from where he is. That leaves the LJ (LOS official on the near sideline) as the only official with responsibility for the runner. The field judge (deep corner pylon on near side), back judge (deep middle on end line), and umpire (middle near LBs) are watching blockers primarily but may pick up the runner and help. If one of them saw him down, they would go to the LJ and have the conversation you are talking about. If they only "think" he may have been down, they don't have applicable knowledge.

Last two years in the semis and championship, I think. This was the first year for the quarters.

[IndyBison]

I'm seeing a problem with that "overwhelming" word. anybody have some insight if they elaborate more on the definition of overwhelming in the officials handbook (looking at you referees)? if they dont define "overwhelming" for the officials, that leaves it wide open to interpretation for the officiating crew. that's a little too subjective for my liking.

Here is the actual text from the rule book. Rule 12 is all about instant replay and includes section on roles, equipment and what is and is not reviewable.

Rule 12-1-2 Philosophy
The instant replay process operates under the fundamental assumption that the ruling on the field is correct. The replay official may reverse a ruling if and only if the video evidence convinces him beyond all doubt that the ruling was incorrect. Without such indisputable video evidence, the replay official must allow the ruling to stand.

Rule 12-7-1 Criterion for Reversal
To reverse an on-field ruling, the replay official must be convinced beyond all doubt by indisputable video evidence through one or more video replays provided to the monitor.

There is a lot of interpretation and subjectivity throughout the rules so this is no different. Not all rules are black and white.

[SDbison]

Fair comment on the real-time call. I disagree but only because bang-bang plays like that are not always easy to see, especially with all the bodies in and around the ball. When they are that close and instant replay is in play, they are taught to err on the side of fumble. The LJ could very well still get a downgrade on the fumble call even though he only did what he was instructed to do. Replay is not there to cover their backs. It's to get it right. I understand why you think that way. Does anyone know if FCS has used instant replay previously. Since the field officials aren't used to using it and the stadiums aren't used to having it I wonder how many gliches there are.

Someone else mentioned the officials huddling and I did see a couple of them get together quickly. Unless someone had absolute knowledge the runner was down, there isn't much a longer conversation could have resulted in. Only 2 officials would be looking at Jensen at this point and 1 of them (referee--white hat) would have definitely not had a view from where he is. That leaves the LJ (LOS official on the near sideline) as the only official with responsibility for the runner. The field judge (deep corner pylon on near side), back judge (deep middle on end line), and umpire (middle near LBs) are watching blockers primarily but may pick up the runner and help. If one of them saw him down, they would go to the LJ and have the conversation you are talking about. If they only "think" he may have been down, they don't have applicable knowledge.
So what about the dumba$$ who reviewed it and still didn't get it right. I could care less about the officials on the field because they just randomly screwed up against the Bison all day.

[onbison09]

Fair comment on the real-time call. I disagree but only because bang-bang plays like that are not always easy to see, especially with all the bodies in and around the ball. When they are that close and instant replay is in play, they are taught to err on the side of fumble. The LJ could very well still get a downgrade on the fumble call even though he only did what he was instructed to do. Replay is not there to cover their backs. It's to get it right. I understand why you think that way. Does anyone know if FCS has used instant replay previously. Since the field officials aren't used to using it and the stadiums aren't used to having it I wonder how many gliches there are.

Someone else mentioned the officials huddling and I did see a couple of them get together quickly. Unless someone had absolute knowledge the runner was down, there isn't much a longer conversation could have resulted in. Only 2 officials would be looking at Jensen at this point and 1 of them (referee--white hat) would have definitely not had a view from where he is. That leaves the LJ (POS official on the near sideline) as the only official with responsibility for the runner. The field judge (deep corner pylon on near side), back judge (deep middle on end line), and umpire (middle near LBs) are watching blockers primarily but may pick up the runner and help. If one of them saw him down, they would go to the LJ and have the conversation you are talking about. If they only "think" he may have been down, they don't have applicable knowledge.

FIFY :rofl:

[bisonboone11]

Just thought I'd point out another "questionable" call by the refs. This one is the personal foul penalty on the Bison player (#63) with about 12:30 left in the 4th quarter with the Bison in easy field goal range and moving the ball. Here is the youtube link. Please notice that the Bison player was tackled after the play. Apparently it's against the rules to be tackled by the opposing team after the play is over. Please notice the EWU player on the ground grabbing the leg of #63 and taking him to the ground. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsG4QKv6KOI

[IndyBison]

After review this is clearly the WORST call of the day on the field without question. For those who didn't see it and were upset at Richard for the personal foul, now you know why all of his teammates were chasing the ref about the call. BRUTAL!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsG4QKv6KOI

Youtube is blocked at work so I'll take a look at this when I get home. The most common way an official f-s up a call (especially one like this) is not seeing the entire play. We are instructed to not flag something unless we saw the whole thing because what you think you saw and what actually happened are 2 different things. Evaluation drives that behavior too because throwing a flag that should not have been thrown is a bigger downgrade than not throwing a flag that should have been thrown. The fould was a personal foul so it had nothing to do with anything that was said. That would be unsportsmanlike conduct and not a personal foul.

[SDbison]

Just thought I'd point out another "questionable" call by the refs. This one is the personal foul penalty on the Bison player (#63) with about 12:30 left in the 4th quarter with the Bison in easy field goal range and moving the ball. Here is the youtube link. Please notice that the Bison player was tackled after the play. Apparently it's against the rules to be tackled by the opposing team after the play is over. Please notice the EWU player on the ground grabbing the leg of #63 and taking him to the ground. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsG4QKv6KOI
Just disgusting!
At least the Bison had a chance to recover from this 2nd of bad calls so far in this game. Then the 3rd one that finished the Bison off at the end of the game! The replay official was involved twice and obviously doesnt have a clue. Just a shame it comes down to piss poor refs.

[SDbison]

Youtube is blocked at work so I'll take a look at this when I get home. The most common way an official f-s up a call (especially one like this) is not seeing the entire play. We are instructed to not flag something unless we saw the whole thing because what you think you saw and what actually happened are 2 different things. Evaluation drives that behavior too because throwing a flag that should not have been thrown is a bigger downgrade than not throwing a flag that should have been thrown. The fould was a personal foul so it had nothing to do with anything that was said. That would be unsportsmanlike conduct and not a personal foul.
Face it Indy you would protect a ref like your brother no matter how much they sucked. I still don't think the grading and demotion of refs is as tough as it should be. This crew for the game gets an F from me. I am sure they will get B's and B+'s from their peers.

[IndyBison]

So what about the dumba$$ who reviewed it and still didn't get it right. I could care less about the officials on the field because they just randomly screwed up against the Bison all day.

My guess is bad video, lack of video or that "convinced beyond all doubt". His threshold must have been higher than all of us.

I hate to add fuel to the fire but while watching parts of the video last night to find the replays I saw 2 personal fouls by the Bison that were not called as well as an illegal shift. They had plenty of other opportunities to "screw" the Bison if that was their intent.

[CAS4127]

Youtube is blocked at work so I'll take a look at this when I get home. The most common way an official f-s up a call (especially one like this) is not seeing the entire play. We are instructed to not flag something unless we saw the whole thing because what you think you saw and what actually happened are 2 different things. Evaluation drives that behavior too because throwing a flag that should not have been thrown is a bigger downgrade than not throwing a flag that should have been thrown. The fould was a personal foul so it had nothing to do with anything that was said. That would be unsportsmanlike conduct and not a personal foul.

You will see that either no flag should have been thrown, or it should have been thrown against EWU--really bad call that very well costed us the game, among the other well-talked about play.

Will these refs feel like shit knowing they took a win away from our kids, or will they just pass it off as an "o shucks" thing?

[bisonboone11]

Sorry... I didn't see the early post on the "personal foul" penalty. Obviously a horrible call though and is probably worth having posted twice.

[bisonboone11]

Also, can someone please tell me if the rule is in place yet for celebrating prior to a touchdown? The play that I'm referring to is the kick return for a touchdown early in the second half (immediately after our kick return for a TD). The EWU player obviously was celebrating prior to crossing the goal line, and the concensus in the crowd was that the penalty should be from the spot of the foul and the touchdown should not have counted. Is this correct?

[SDbison]

My guess is bad video, lack of video or that "convinced beyond all doubt". His threshold must have been higher than all of us.

I hate to add fuel to the fire but while watching parts of the video last night to find the replays I saw 2 personal fouls by the Bison that were not called as well as an illegal shift. They had plenty of other opportunities to "screw" the Bison if that was their intent.
I am sure if you looked long enough (entire game) you could find 5 more penalties that should have been called on EWU. Again, protect your own.

[SDbison]

My guess is bad video, lack of video or that "convinced beyond all doubt". His threshold must have been higher than all of us.

I hate to add fuel to the fire but while watching parts of the video last night to find the replays I saw 2 personal fouls by the Bison that were not called as well as an illegal shift. They had plenty of other opportunities to "screw" the Bison if that was their intent.
So where does this bad video come from? The angles available to TV looked clear enough to me.

[IndyBison]

Face it Indy you would protect a ref like your brother no matter how much they sucked. I still don't think the grading and demotion of refs is a tough as it should be.

I've already said I thought the fumble call was incorrect. In the end my opinion is irrelevant. If the CAA supervisor was disgusted enough by the call, it's entirely possible he worked his last CAA game. The replay official was apparently from the PAC 10 so that would be the call of the PAC 10 supervisor.

[99Bison]

Supposedly the booth guy was an 80 year old Pac 10'er. Probably worked last game.... 25 years ago.

[HerdBot]

Fair comment on the real-time call. I disagree but only because bang-bang plays like that are not always easy to see, especially with all the bodies in and around the ball. When they are that close and instant replay is in play, they are taught to err on the side of fumble. The LJ could very well still get a downgrade on the fumble call even though he only did what he was instructed to do. Replay is not there to cover their backs. It's to get it right. I understand why you think that way. Does anyone know if FCS has used instant replay previously. Since the field officials aren't used to using it and the stadiums aren't used to having it I wonder how many gliches there are.

Someone else mentioned the officials huddling and I did see a couple of them get together quickly. Unless someone had absolute knowledge the runner was down, there isn't much a longer conversation could have resulted in. Only 2 officials would be looking at Jensen at this point and 1 of them (referee--white hat) would have definitely not had a view from where he is. That leaves the LJ (LOS official on the near sideline) as the only official with responsibility for the runner. The field judge (deep corner pylon on near side), back judge (deep middle on end line), and umpire (middle near LBs) are watching blockers primarily but may pick up the runner and help. If one of them saw him down, they would go to the LJ and have the conversation you are talking about. If they only "think" he may have been down, they don't have applicable knowledge.

Mistakes are made. We get it. But when it happens 4 times iat the most key parts of the game it's a trend.

I did some checking and out of all the EWU games, this was their 2nd cleanest game of the year. Another coincidence...


Nevada - 4 for 34
Central Washington - 8 for 52
Montana - 11 for 86
Montana State - 8 for 60
Weber State - 9 for 55
Northern Arizona - 6 for 61
Northern Colorado - 8 for 61
Sacramento State - 5 for 43
Portland State - 7 for 51
Southern Utah - 8 for 81
Idaho State - zero
Southeast Missouri State - 4 for 55
NDSU - 2 for 20

[Walkon79]

whats the deal with the cow bells?? and the fans moving to the end zone? Neither of these are allowed, are they??

I watched the game and was pullin for ya, since you handed us our ass the week before and EWU can't even fill up a HS stadium for a QF game!!

I also complained to the Big Sky about the cowbells, since we were told that the use of artificial noisemakers was prohibited in the playoffs. I thought I even heard a Vuvuseala (sp) or two.

But the fans moving to the endzone? Last I checked there isn't a rule against that.

[IndyBison]

Also, can someone please tell me if the rule is in place yet for celebrating prior to a touchdown? The play that I'm referring to is the kick return for a touchdown early in the second half (immediately after our kick return for a TD). The EWU player obviously was celebrating prior to crossing the goal line, and the concensus in the crowd was that the penalty should be from the spot of the foul and the touchdown should not have counted. Is this correct?

That rule change goes into effect next year. For now, live ball unsportsmanlike conduct fouls are enforced as succeeding spot fouls which means the opposing team has the choice of the try or kickoff on this play. NDSU chose the kickoff which is normal. I wonder if they would have chosen the try instead with the weather conditions as they were. Next year, the penalty would have been enforced at about the 3 so it would have been 1st and 10 for EWU at the Bison 18.

[bisonboone11]

Thanks IndyBison. Just wanted to clarify whether or not that play was ruled correctly. Does anyone have a video of the 3rd and 4 "catch" in the first half that was reviewed and not overturned? I've seen a couple pictures, but I'd love to see the video.

Thanks.

[IndyBison]

So where does this bad video come from? The angles available to TV looked clear enough to me.

I was referring to the other thread that talked about the water on the lenses. We also have no idea how many views or angles were presented to the replay booth. There were 2 views I thought were pretty conclusive - high from the end zone and field level near the goal line that showed it pretty clearly but we have no idea if he saw those or how many times he saw those.

[IndyBison]

Thanks IndyBison. Just wanted to clarify whether or not that play was ruled correctly. Does anyone have a video of the 3rd and 4 "catch" in the first half that was reviewed and not overturned? I've seen a couple pictures, but I'd love to see the video.

Thanks.

If you have access to ESPN3, you can see the entire game here.

http://espn.go.com/espn3/index?id=111342

They have little tabs on the timeline showing key plays so move the slider to just before the 69-yd TD run. I don't have the exact time written down. It's pretty close but you do see a little jump by the ball as it hits his hands. If nothing else this should show the NCAA that allowing red turf is horrible idea as it comes to using instant replay. I wonder how much it affected the replay officials ability to overrule this "beyond all doubt".

[Walkon79]

I just don't see any possible reasonable explanation for this. I can understand officials are human (even Indy Bison:) ) but to miss it in the REPLAY PROCESS is unbelievable. I can't imagine a good explanation. It truly makes me question the integrity of the game.

If someone has a logical explanation...I'm all ears.

And yes, I know we had our chances to win but that's not relevent to my point.

Maybe I can provide one. There were only two camera angles for the call, and neither were directly from the endzone like the pictures posted.

I just don't think the replay was clear enough to overturn the call on the field. If they would have called him down by contact, that would have held up too, IMO.

Now the bounce off the turf, I have no explanation for that except for the red-on-red, which again made it difficult for the replay guy to overturn.

[IndyBison]

I watched the game and was pullin for ya, since you handed us our ass the week before and EWU can't even fill up a HS stadium for a QF game!!

I also complained to the Big Sky about the cowbells, since we were told that the use of artificial noisemakers was prohibited in the playoffs. I thought I even heard a Vuvuseala (sp) or two.

But the fans moving to the endzone? Last I checked there isn't a rule against that.

The only possible rule would be there has to be a 2-yard belt all the way around the field with nobody but players and officials. There should also be another 3-yard belt where anything permanently should not exist that could result in a player safety. For example a brick wall with ivy on it but who would ever think to play a game where that could become an issue?

Other than that it would be a game management issue of the host facility. Some allow people to sit and stand in that area the entire game. I worked a college game this year where someone was 5-6 yards behind me on the back pylon with nothing between them and me.

[Bison"FANatic"]

I think the replay guy was to blind and bat shit crazy to have it even matter what color the *(&*(& turf was.

sorry still to pissed.

[IndyBison]

You will see that either no flag should have been thrown, or it should have been thrown against EWU--really bad call that very well costed us the game, among the other well-talked about play.

Will these refs feel like shit knowing they took a win away from our kids, or will they just pass it off as an "o shucks" thing?

I'm definitely curious to see it now. If it was wrong it definitely had a huge impact on the game.

They'll feel like crap if they got any plays wrong but especially if it had a significant impact on the game. But that comes with the territory. If you aren't willing to accept that, you don't belong on the field. If you feel you kicked a call, you have no more than 40 seconds to worry about it because you have to get focused on the next play. If you see it on video after the game it sticks with you longer.

Good officials try to learn from the experience and do whatever it takes to not make the same mistake again. Guys working this level do a ton of film study both of their games and other games to hopefully prepare them for any situation. I'm really curious to see if any of these plays make it into next year's training videos. I know there were some from a Montana playoff game last year. There was a huge miss on an illegal helmet contact that was used for that added emphasis this year.

[bisonboone11]

You will definitely see that the call was incorrect. The official may not have been able to see it from his angle, but then it should have been a no-call. The video clearly shows the EWU player wrapping his arm around the leg of #63, rolling over, and taking him to the ground. Let us know your thoughts when you see the video.

[CAS4127]

I'm definitely curious to see it now. If it was wrong it definitely had a huge impact on the game.

They'll feel like crap if they got any plays wrong but especially if it had a significant impact on the game. But that comes with the territory. If you aren't willing to accept that, you don't belong on the field. If you feel you kicked a call, you have no more than 40 seconds to worry about it because you have to get focused on the next play. If you see it on video after the game it sticks with you longer.

Good officials try to learn from the experience and do whatever it takes to not make the same mistake again. Guys working this level do a ton of film study both of their games and other games to hopefully prepare them for any situation. I'm really curious to see if any of these plays make it into next year's training videos. I know there were some from a Montana playoff game last year. There was a huge miss on an illegal helmet contact that was used for that added emphasis this year.

Just an FYI, but I stated "no flag" because it is obvious he did not see the entire incident. #10, who is lying faceup on the ground, wraps his arm around our lineman's leg near his knee and pulls on it, causeing our lineman to fall over the top of him. The ref is right there, and almost gets caught up in it to the point of stumbling, looks down, see's our lineman fall somewhat on top of #10, and, bang, the flag is pulled and thrown instantly, in a way that leads me to believe he did it impulsively because he was so close to going down with our lineman. I bet when he sees it he will realize he did not see the entire incident.

Will be interested in getting your take, as that was a huge penalty deep in EWU's territory, making it 3rd & 16 rather than 3rd & 1

[Bison bison]

Will be interested in getting your take, as that was a huge penalty deep in EWU's territory, making it 3rd & 16 rather than 3rd & 1

Rather than 1st & Goal at the 1.

[CAS4127]

Rather than 1st & Goal at the 1.

OK--I didn't think we got that close on the run--but, whatever, it's the call that hurt either way.

[Walkon79]

The only possible rule would be there has to be a 2-yard belt all the way around the field with nobody but players and officials. There should also be another 3-yard belt where anything permanently should not exist that could result in a player safety. For example a brick wall with ivy on it but who would ever think to play a game where that could become an issue?

Other than that it would be a game management issue of the host facility. Some allow people to sit and stand in that area the entire game. I worked a college game this year where someone was 5-6 yards behind me on the back pylon with nothing between them and me.

I misunderstood. I thought they moved into the bleachers behind the endzone. The player/fan safety thing would be a host school responsibility, but since they allowed noisemakers I guess that was out the window. By the way, I didn't hear it so much in the second half. Can anyone confirm if they were told to stop or not?

[bisonboone11]

I misunderstood. I thought they moved into the bleachers behind the endzone. The player/fan safety thing would be a host school responsibility, but since they allowed noisemakers I guess that was out the window. By the way, I didn't hear it so much in the second half. Can anyone confirm if they were told to stop or not?
They were told that artificial noisemakers were not allowed, but it was still happening in the second half. Not sure why it couldn't be heard, but I could hear it at the game.

[bisonmike2]

Bill Fette raped and murdered my dog.

[bisonboone11]

I misunderstood. I thought they moved into the bleachers behind the endzone. The player/fan safety thing would be a host school responsibility, but since they allowed noisemakers I guess that was out the window. By the way, I didn't hear it so much in the second half. Can anyone confirm if they were told to stop or not?
Also, they did move to the bleachers behind the endzone just prior to the overtime. I'm not sure if this is against the rules or not, but I just wanted to make sure that it was clear on what happened.

[bisonpride]

OK--I didn't think we got that close on the run--but, whatever, it's the call that hurt either way.

It should have been that close after the 15 yard penalty on EWU. Penalty went the wrong way. 30 yard swing in field position.

[lakesbison]

Edit by admin: Knock. It. The. Hell. Off.

[HoopsBison]

I know I was very unhappy with Austin Richard when he got flagged in the 4th quater. I never saw what actaully happened and I was really wanting them to show a replay when it happened. Guess I now understand why there was no replay.

[houndawg]

You will definitely see that the call was incorrect. The official may not have been able to see it from his angle, but then it should have been a no-call. The video clearly shows the EWU player wrapping his arm around the leg of #63, rolling over, and taking him to the ground. Let us know your thoughts when you see the video.

Not so definite. Watch 63 from the snap to the end of the play. I think that while he's getting up off of #10 he gives him the business, pushing him down while he's trying to get up and stepping over him. What's unusual is that it's normally the guy retaliating who gets the flag.

[Bison bison]

Not so definite. Watch 63 from the snap to the end of the play. I think that while he's getting up off of #10 he gives him the business, pushing him down while he's trying to get up and stepping over him. What's unusual is that it's normally the guy retaliating who gets the flag.

Obviously you never played on the line.

[houndawg]

I was too good for the line. Look again, bubba, he's ......giving him the business....

[CAS4127]

Not so definite. Watch 63 from the snap to the end of the play. I think that while he's getting up off of #10 he gives him the business, pushing him down while he's trying to get up and stepping over him. What's unusual is that it's normally the guy retaliating who gets the flag.

But even if that was the case (which is doesn't appear to be), that is not the reason the flag was thrown.

[NDSUstudent]

That's giving somebody the business? If so flags would be flying on every play...

[56BISON73]

After watching the replay of the Austin Richards penalty I have to sak---WTF was that ref thinking. That call was absurd.

[North Side]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPGW_81TleI

here you go

this is probably the same video feed they got in the replay booth ;)

[HerdBot]

After watching the replay of the Austin Richards penalty I have to sak---WTF was that ref thinking. That call was absurd.

Your whiney and classless for saying that! Sour grapes! Low blow. Let it go! Oh wait so am I!!

[HerdBot]

this is probably the same video feed they got in the replay booth ;)

Yeah who needs 5 angles from high quality espn angles when you've got that! Maybe they were so cold that they just wanted to get out of there.

[56BISON73]

Your whiney and classless for saying that! Sour grapes! Low blow. Let it go! Oh wait so am I!!

Its not pretty when a talking head snaps. Hows that ignore feature working for you.

[HerdBot]

I loved how Bohl put it on his show- cant really discuss it because he would be in trouble so him and Phil talk about the replay in the MVC- Bohl talks about how it needs to be done right...cameras, proper protocol- pause...then emphasis on " a competent person in the booth doing reviews".

that would be an indirect zziiiinnnng :bow:

Props to coach Bohl for saying what needed to be said without actually saying it.

[HerdBot]

Its not pretty when a talking head snaps. Hows that ignore feature working for you.

Sorry had to get a cheap shot in before I clicked it. Actually its a legit point and the penalty was bogus.

[CivilBison96]

I misunderstood. I thought they moved into the bleachers behind the endzone. The player/fan safety thing would be a host school responsibility, but since they allowed noisemakers I guess that was out the window. By the way, I didn't hear it so much in the second half. Can anyone confirm if they were told to stop or not?

They announced at least 3 times that artificial noisemakers were not allowed at NCAA games and that did nothing to curb the use. Would it then be permissible by the refs (supposed representatives of NCAA) to enforce this rule?

[56BISON73]

They announced at least 3 times that artificial noisemakers were not allowed at NCAA games and that did nothing to curb the use. Would it then be permissible by the refs (supposed representatives of NCAA) to enforce this rule?

If its against the rules then why were they allowed in the game?????

[NDSUstudent]

If its against the rules then why were they allowed in the game?????

EWU's admin clearly doesn't care about the rules...

[No_Skill]

Its over. Move on to next year. Dwelling on all the coulda, woulda, shoulda (no shortage of those, of course) will only make you mad and not change anything.

We made it a heck of a lot longer than any of us thought we would after the Miss. State game and the future looks bright for next year.

This one hurts. I see us talking about it until a day or so after Villanova destroys EWU. That should help ease the pain and we'll move on at that point.

[HerdBot]

This one hurts. I see us talking about it until a day or so after Villanova destroys EWU. That should help ease the pain and we'll move on at that point.

No it will remind me how we should be playing them in front or a record crowd on espn for the right to go to the national championship game.

[CivilBison96]

Also when their fans were moving to the endzone seats, there was a group of NDSU fans that started to go over as well but were stopped at the track by security. If they can go to those seats to make noise why were we not allowed to as well, they by no means filled the section up?

[ndsubison1]

this play didnt lose us the game. not giving the ball to sigers on that 3rd and 2 lost us the game. instead we did a jensen roll out that never worked in the game. sigers had wide open space, plus with our FB right in front of him. we were starting to establish dominance in the running game. i just dont understand why we went away from our bread and butter.

[heckler]

this play didnt lose us the game. not giving the ball to sigers on that 3rd and 2 lost us the game. instead we did a jensen roll out that never worked in the game. sigers had wide open space, plus with our FB right in front of him. we were starting to establish dominance in the running game. i just dont understand why we went away from our bread and butter.

Vigen over thought it.

[IndyBison]

They announced at least 3 times that artificial noisemakers were not allowed at NCAA games and that did nothing to curb the use. Would it then be permissible by the refs (supposed representatives of NCAA) to enforce this rule?

The officials have no jurisdiction for things like noisemakers.

[IndyBison]

Just thought I'd point out another "questionable" call by the refs. This one is the personal foul penalty on the Bison player (#63) with about 12:30 left in the 4th quarter with the Bison in easy field goal range and moving the ball. Here is the youtube link. Please notice that the Bison player was tackled after the play. Apparently it's against the rules to be tackled by the opposing team after the play is over. Please notice the EWU player on the ground grabbing the leg of #63 and taking him to the ground. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsG4QKv6KOI

I don't see anything there that should have been a foul on #63. The only possible legitimate thing would be if he did something before he got up and the umpire was just slow in getting his flag out. If that were the case he still should have seen what the EWU player did and flagged him as well to offset the penalties. Unless there is something there that didn't show up at all on film, this was a missed call.

BTW...others saying the foul should have been on EWU and resulted in a 1st and goal at the 1 are incorrect. This would have been penalized half the distance and the Bison would have had the ball at the 8, 1st and goal.

[Bison bison]

I was too good for the line. Look again, bubba, he's ......giving him the business....

weellll eexxxcuussee mmmmeeee, yoou're majesty!

[tjbison]

Yeah who needs 5 angles from high quality espn angles when you've got that! Maybe they were so cold that they just wanted to get out of there.

Did you call into Heitkamp today?? Some guy said the same thing on there:confused:

[Gully]

The more replays I watch and the more explanations I read the more I think this was a complete f'in joke. Just watched the personal foul on Richards. Wow is all I can say. Three HUGE calls that were wrong (fumble, 3rd down catch, and personal foul). One of them for sure impacted the scoreboard and there is a very good chance the other two did as well.

They have to do better than this.

[Bisonfan1]

I havent read the whole thread, I am still on cooling off period, HOWEVER, as neutral as site as possible my butt, red turf, horns going off, cowbells, my god if that would have been at the dome your ass would have been escorted out by security and possibly arrested, could hear all that on TV, and fans moving, the announcer etc, neutral site as possible my achin ass, what a joke. Talk about home field advantage, wheres our home field advantage, ill tell ya, its in the hands of the gestapo that are probably from FARGO and dont give a crap about the Bison, at least their Security supports their team and lets them get away with it. Why do you think more people are going to away games, BECAUSE you can actually GO ENJOY a football game like it should be. Back to topic, poor play calling period lost the Bison this game, not the refs, refs did suck though !!

[TbonZach]

weellll eexxxcuussee mmmmeeee, yoou're majesty!

http://jonspach.com/jonspach/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/steve-martin.jpg

[perthbison]

After watching the replay of the Austin Richards penalty I have to sak---WTF was that ref thinking. That call was absurd.

Their famed DT tackled Richards is what it looked like to me. The Pac 10 must have sent us their rejects.

[Bisonfan1]

The officials have no jurisdiction for things like noisemakers.

So what a minute here, so the refs cannot throw a flag for artificial noisemakers ?? and its all up to the dome nazi's to enforce ?? Or am i way off base here ?? So thats why I kept hearing them all game long on TV ?? Thanx for clarification on this Indy.

[IndyBison]

So what a minute here, so the refs cannot throw a flag for artificial noisemakers ?? and its all up to the dome nazi's to enforce ?? Or am i way off base here ?? So thats why I kept hearing them all game long on TV ?? Thanx for clarification on this Indy.

Correct...noisemakers are not in the football rule book. It would be like asking the officials to make sure nobody snuck in without paying. That's all on game management.

[IndyBison]

Their famed DT tackled Richards is what it looked like to me. The Pac 10 must have sent us their rejects.

Replay official only was from the Pac 10. The on field crew was from the CAA. That should have been their best officials assuming they only got 1 game this weekend.

[Bisonfan1]

OK, SOOOO our dome nazis are TOTALLY OUT OF CONTROL as I thought. You know rulebooks are a good thing to read, i want to see a copy of dome rules, security handbook, NDSU policies etc. could make for some intersesting reading this winter with the yellow highliter going. Any you boys that have been booted bothered to get some public record publications ? CLINT comes to mind, HERD , Lakes ?? - no first hand knowledge of the rainforest incident. Jeez I will hand it to EWU security to help their team out by letting all the noisemakers slide.

[CivilBison96]

OK, SOOOO our dome nazis are TOTALLY OUT OF CONTROL as I thought. You know rulebooks are a good thing to read, i want to see a copy of dome rules, security handbook, NDSU policies etc. could make for some intersesting reading this winter with the yellow highliter going. Any you boys that have been booted bothered to get some public record publications ? CLINT comes to mind, HERD , Lakes ?? - no first hand knowledge of the rainforest incident. Jeez I will hand it to EWU security to help their team out by letting all the noisemakers slide.

I don't think their noisemakers had any effect on the game (there wasn't enough of them!!) and I can assure you that our bleachers were way noisier than their noisemakers/cowbells but they couldn't take away the High School bleachers and make us stand on the ground.

I asked the question as I thought the NCAA came out with the no noisemakers and thought that the officials as representatives of the NCAA might have some jurisdiction.

[NDSUstudent]

NDSU did things according to the NCAA, EWU didn't. Montana State also did things according the NCAA, EWU is just a bush league school.

Officials are from the CAA. The NCAA did probably send a rep to the game.

[NDSUFan_Sav]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdRyGV0kJuY&feature=watch_response

[Bisonfan1]

I don't think their noisemakers had any effect on the game (there wasn't enough of them!!) and I can assure you that our bleachers were way noisier than their noisemakers/cowbells but they couldn't take away the High School bleachers and make us stand on the ground.

I asked the question as I thought the NCAA came out with the no noisemakers and thought that the officials as representatives of the NCAA might have some jurisdiction.

They sounded pretty loud on the TV and im deaf, point is, if those people would have been at the dome including you or me, we would have been escorted out, this went on all game that I could hear. It most certainly didnt hurt anything for them and added to their atmosphere. We all had cowbells and horns back at dacotah field, watch and listen to the games of the 80's, it helped their home field advantage and their security assisted it by letting it go on, ours would have had you in handcuffs. By the way it sounds cool on the boob tube.

[Bisonfan1]

North Dakota State - COWBELLS -- Montana State - SHEEPBELLS -- EWU GayEagles - GAYBELLS on the pretty pink turf

[lakesbison]

He's down on BOTH...ARGH

[BisonCountry]

I don't see anything there that should have been a foul on #63. The only possible legitimate thing would be if he did something before he got up and the umpire was just slow in getting his flag out. If that were the case he still should have seen what the EWU player did and flagged him as well to offset the penalties. Unless there is something there that didn't show up at all on film, this was a missed call.

BTW...others saying the foul should have been on EWU and resulted in a 1st and goal at the 1 are incorrect. This would have been penalized half the distance and the Bison would have had the ball at the 8, 1st and goal.

Here is something else I questioned during the game...Final drive of EWU....EWU 2 and 10 from 19. PI on NDSU #13. Refs spotted the ball at the 4 yard line. Is this not a case where it should also been half the distance to the goal?

[onbison09]

Here is something else I questioned during the game...Final drive of EWU....EWU 2 and 10 from 19. PI on NDSU #13. Refs spotted the ball at the 4 yard line. Is this not a case where it should also been half the distance to the goal?

Didn't he say the foul occurred in the end zone?

[lakesbison]

YEA. gene asked the ewu officials about noise makers , they said TOO BAD .

Refs didn't start clock either on one of.those final drive plays.

Dome nazis don't help ndsu, they hinder the fans,crowd.
Not 1 problem in msu, ewu, hell, we.were swearing in ewu securities faces.when they let ewu fans in end zone but not us... if that happened in dome, those thin skinned sissies woulda cuffed all 12 of us down there. Ewu guys just walked away.

[EndZoneQB]

Dude, how did Holloway not recover that? lol

[ndsubison1]

After watching the replay of the Austin Richards penalty I have to sak---WTF was that ref thinking. That call was absurd.

it was tough to tell from the replay but it did look like richard put his knee into the back of the defender and then tripped over him.

[HerdBot]

Did you call into Heitkamp today?? Some guy said the same thing on there:confused:

I've never called into his show before. Although that same statement has been repeated by 3 other posters...

[Herd]

this play didnt lose us the game. not giving the ball to sigers on that 3rd and 2 lost us the game. instead we did a jensen roll out that never worked in the game. sigers had wide open space, plus with our FB right in front of him. we were starting to establish dominance in the running game. i just dont understand why we went away from our bread and butter.

I watched the replay, and OMG, you are exactly right. Sigers scores on 3rd and 2 if we give him the ball. That is the missed call of the game. Watch that play again, it's enough to make a grown man cry. We win if Sigers gets the ball on that play. Ugh!

[IndyBison]

Here is something else I questioned during the game...Final drive of EWU....EWU 2 and 10 from 19. PI on NDSU #13. Refs spotted the ball at the 4 yard line. Is this not a case where it should also been half the distance to the goal?

The one exception to the half the distance penalty is defensive pass interference. If the foul is within 15 yards of the LOS, it is a spot enforcement. If the foul is beyond 15 yards, it's always enforced 15 yards, even if it's more than half the distance. The ball can not be spotted inside the 2 after a DPI though so if they had been at the 15 and the foul occurred in the end zone, it would be placed at the 2 after enforcement. The exception to this is on a try. Then DPI is half the distance to the goal.

In this play, the previous spot was the 19 and the foul occurred more than 15 yards from the previous spot so it had a 15-yard enforcement. First and goal at the 4.

See why officials sometimes have to huddle for penalty enforcement? They have exceptions to exceptions.

[IndyBison]

I don't see anything there that should have been a foul on #63. The only possible legitimate thing would be if he did something before he got up and the umpire was just slow in getting his flag out. If that were the case he still should have seen what the EWU player did and flagged him as well to offset the penalties. Unless there is something there that didn't show up at all on film, this was a missed call.

BTW...others saying the foul should have been on EWU and resulted in a 1st and goal at the 1 are incorrect. This would have been penalized half the distance and the Bison would have had the ball at the 8, 1st and goal.

I looked at the play again and have another theory. That is a pretty quick move by #10 for EWU and the umpire may have been too close to see it. He may have thought #63 initiated all that contact to land on #10. Doesn't make it right but it may explain how he got it wrong. Definitely a bad call unless there is something there we just can't see on video.

[4mcruenomore]

let it go, we lost.

[UncleBuck]

let it go, we lost.

I just started therapy.

I've got several twelve packs to go.

[ndsubison1]

it was tough to tell from the replay but it did look like richard put his knee into the back of the defender and then tripped over him.

i take this back. #10 grabbed Richard and pulled him down. The flag should have been on EWU. Jesus Christ :banghead:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsG4QKv6KOI&feature=watch_response

[lakesbison]

O M F G . WHAT A JOKE>

that sissy #10 got his ass beat, so he grabs Richards Leg and drags him down. WOW

[CivilBison96]

I looked at the play again and have another theory. That is a pretty quick move by #10 for EWU and the umpire may have been too close to see it. He may have thought #63 initiated all that contact to land on #10. Doesn't make it right but it may explain how he got it wrong. Definitely a bad call unless there is something there we just can't see on video.

All I saw watching the play was Richards go flat on his face and then the flag came out and I thought "Sweet 1st down inside the 10" (although I have seen some mistaken posts that state we were up by 7 if you watch the replay we are tied at 24) but I should have seen the pattern developing earlier in the game.....

[lakesbison]

http://www.bisonville.com/forum/showpost.php?p=454117&postcount=27

click on that VIDEO of #10 pulling down #63 richards.. what a joke!!