South Dakota Is Gone Per Bozeman Chronicle

[bisonatrix]

If true, looks like their just negotiating buyouts at this point.

http://www.bozemandailychronicle.com/app/msu-bobcats/?p=6928

[zooropa]

Said article also contains a number of irresponsible factual errors:

USD is not negotiating a buyout with the Great West, any negotiation is with the Summit.

USD was a full member of the Great West.

USD and UND were not founding members of the Great West.

[bisonatrix]

True, but there are other outlets starting to also report the same thing, and the link below reads pretty damning too. Makes too much sense, no way the BSC moves on UND if they didnt have a partner to match them with.

USD=Gone.


http://www.siouxcityjournal.com/sports/football/college/usd/article_a589d735-3a3a-5bce-83d3-fd2cfe495eae.html

[aces1180]

What is there to negotiate? Make them pay the entire amount.

[Tatanka]

True, but there are other outlets starting to also report the same thing, and the link below reads pretty damning too. Makes too much sense, no way the BSC moves on UND if they didnt have a partner to match them with.

USD=Gone.


http://www.siouxcityjournal.com/sports/football/college/usd/article_a589d735-3a3a-5bce-83d3-fd2cfe495eae.html

Questioning some of the accuracy in this article as well. For instance, the following doesn't make sense:


“The (USD) president and board of regents have all of the information I have provided them,” Sayler said. “They're kind of doing their due diligence to see if it's the right move.”

A decision, Sayler said, could be announced in the next couple of weeks.

Keep in mind, however, that none of the three schools have been formally invited to join the Big Sky Conference.


and this little gem. Nice spin!

The important thing, Sayler said, is that the USD athletic program is in demand.


But if true, so be it. Farewell, 'yotes.

[Yote 53]

You can't just "make" anybody do anything. If South Dakota resists, in order to enforce the contract the Summit would have to go to court. Lawyers are costly, and USD, I'm sure, has more that a few that would work pro bono. USD doesn't officially enter the conference until next summer. The easiest thing for the Summit to do is negotiate a settlement.

Fresno St and Nevada had a $5 million buyout negotiated down to $900,000. The Big 12 is going to try to collect the full buyout on Nebraska, I believe $15 million. Nebraska's response was go ahead and try. Given Texas, etc. were negotiating with the Pac 10 behind Nebraska's back, there may be a case there.

Contract settlements like this happen all the time. In fact there might even be a clause in the contract regarding settlement or mediation.

[aces1180]

You can't just "make" anybody do anything. If South Dakota resists, in order to enforce the contract the Summit would have to go to court. Lawyers are costly, and USD, I'm sure, has more that a few that would work pro bono. USD doesn't officially enter the conference until next summer. The easiest thing for the Summit to do is negotiate a settlement.

Fresno St and Nevada had a $5 million buyout negotiated down to $900,000. The Big 12 is going to try to collect the full buyout on Nebraska, I believe $15 million. Nebraska's response was go ahead and try. Given Texas, etc. were negotiating with the Pac 10 behind Nebraska's back, there may be a case there.

Contract settlements like this happen all the time. In fact there might even be a clause in the contract regarding settlement or mediation.

Well, it's pretty dirty if you ask me...Why even have contracts if you aren't going to honor them?

Maybe NDSU should cancel it's next two games with USD and refuse to pay any buyouts associated with it. I'm pretty confident NDSU can find a home game for 2014.

[Bison bison]

Why even have contracts if you aren't going to honor them?



That's exactly why you have contracts.

[Yote 53]

It's entirely possible they could do that. There would be a process to follow, could end up in court, etc.

I wouldn't say USD is doing anything "dirty" by leaving the Summit. Everybody knows the reasons why, and who can fault them, really? If the Big Sky wouldn't have taken Cal Poly and UCD we would still be in the Summit/Great West. If the MVFC would have opened up and expanded we would be in the Summit/MVFC. The way things turned out we have to go Big Sky, which is a pretty good deal, IMO. Schools shift conferences all the time.

[aces1180]

It's entirely possible they could do that. There would be a process to follow, could end up in court, etc.

I wouldn't say USD is doing anything "dirty" by leaving the Summit. Everybody knows the reasons why, and who can fault them, really? If the Big Sky wouldn't have taken Cal Poly and UCD we would still be in the Summit/Great West. If the MVFC would have opened up and expanded we would be in the Summit/MVFC. The way things turned out we have to go Big Sky, which is a pretty good deal, IMO. Schools shift conferences all the time.

No, its not dirty that they are leaving. It's dirty that they would possibly fight the agreed upon fees. If they signed a contract to pay a certain amount, it should be honored.

[The_Sicatoka]

Is the University of South Dakota a member of the Summit League? How is that defined in the contract?

They haven't played a conference game. Do they have voting rights yet? Those normally define a conference member.

If they aren't a conference member, why would they have to pay an exit fee? They aren't "in" yet to "exit". In this scenario they lose any upfront earnest money and walk.

If the contract says once they paid earnest money they're on the hook for exit fees ... ouch.

We don't know. That's why surely lawyers are looking at contracts.

[Bison"FANatic"]

Yote 53 taking lessons from another unnamed internet troll since 2006 just throw stuff up on a board and see what sticks. Some sticks and some doesn't but when it does oh watch out here comes the I told you so.

Sign a contract, man up and honor the terms. If you want to leave pay up and be nice about it and don't burn any bridges on the way out you never know when you may have to cross them again.

[Tatanka]

Wouldn't be the first time that lawyers enabled douchebag behavior. Won't be the last.

[aces1180]

Is the University of South Dakota a member of the Summit League? How is that defined in the contract?

They haven't played a conference game. Do they have voting rights yet? Those normally define a conference member.

If they aren't a conference member, why would they have to pay an exit fee? They aren't "in" yet to "exit". In this scenario they lose any upfront earnest money and walk.

If the contract says once they paid earnest money they're on the hook for exit fees ... ouch.

We don't know. That's why surely lawyers are looking at contracts.

That's the big "if." I'm just saying that if they decide to be assholes about it and not follow the terms of the contract they signed, that's pretty shitty and people won't forget.

Kind of how UND treated NDSU when we moved up in 2003...It was a huge mistake to go Division I and it was going to be a big fail for the Bison, right?

[Yote 53]

I didn't "throw anything up". I just pointed out how these situations are many times negotiated out.

I wouldn't at all be suprised if the NDSU/USD football contract is affected by this and I'm sure is one of those "red tape" matters that has to be taken care of. There are contracts all over the place for many sports affected by this move and those need to be handled. I doubt we do see the Bison down in Vermillion now which I'm sure will make some of your supporters happy, and maybe some not so happy since it is a driveable road game. Personally, I like the USD/NDSU games and was happy we got that contract. I like the atmosphere in Fargo and was hoping the Bison faithful got the opportunity to come down to Verm and see how much our gameday atmosphere has changed (for the better) since the last time you were down here.

[Facts]

Well Congrats to USD and UND on finding a conference home for "All" your sports. The only thing left to do for your teams is to actually matter and not be considered the conference patsy.

What will be the future UXD's? the path of Northern Colorado??

[aces1180]

Well Congrats to USD and UND on finding a conference home for "All" your sports. The only thing left to do for your teams is to actually matter and not be considered the conference patsy.

What will be the future UXD's? the path of Northern Colorado??

UND has hockey...That is all their fans care about anyway.

They continue to be the power in the Minnesota and Wisconsin vacated WCHA soon.

[tjbison]

I love how the UXD's are looking to blame the MVFC for not expanding, USD is what 0-3 against the Valley and UND can't beat NAIA teams. Why would they or should they expand to help them? They won't and I'm glad they didn't

Have fun with the travel

[aces1180]

I didn't "throw anything up". I just pointed out how these situations are many times negotiated out.

I wouldn't at all be suprised if the NDSU/USD football contract is affected by this and I'm sure is one of those "red tape" matters that has to be taken care of. There are contracts all over the place for many sports affected by this move and those need to be handled. I doubt we do see the Bison down in Vermillion now which I'm sure will make some of your supporters happy, and maybe some not so happy since it is a driveable road game. Personally, I like the USD/NDSU games and was happy we got that contract. I like the atmosphere in Fargo and was hoping the Bison faithful got the opportunity to come down to Verm and see how much our gameday atmosphere has changed (for the better) since the last time you were down here.

Even though we easily could, NDSU is not going to cancel the games at USD...We are better than that and honor our commitments.

[Tatanka]

Even though we easily could, NDSU is not going to cancel the games at USD...We are better than that and honor our commitments.

...we hope :hide:

[aces1180]

...we hope :hide:

I can't think of another example where we have done it before.

[Yote 53]

Glad to hear that. Hope to see a lot of Bison Fans down in Vermillion in the future. Stop by the tailgate, we'll have a few beers and talk about the old times.

[Tatanka]

I can't think of another example where we have done it before.

Me either, but last I checked neither you nor I are in charge of such decisions. I would hope that we don't do something like that but it's not my call.

[aces1180]

Me either, but last I checked neither you nor I are in charge of such decisions. I would hope that we don't do something like that but it's not my call.

Agreed....

[The_Sicatoka]

That's the big "if." I'm just saying that if they decide to be assholes about it and not follow the terms of the contract they signed, ...

If they don't follow the terms, or don't negotiate different terms, there's a word for what they'll be: SUED.

Alternatively, given that USD hasn't played a Summit League game it would be a very benevolent move if the Summit let them go without a buyout.

[WYOBISONMAN]

I always said USD would be CRAZY to take the Summit over the Sky. No way could they not have a home for Football and the same is true for UND. Now.....NDSU needs to be careful to make sure membership in the Summit does not snake bite us. Perhaps we need to be cuddling up to the Mo Valley is a real tight way. If ORU bails from the Summit things start to look grim.

[MN_BISON]

If USD has been worked into future Summit schedules and now they decide to bolt that causes a problem for all Summit schools. If this is the case and I don't see The Summit just letting USD walk away without paying an exit fee nor should they.

Would be nice to hear from Douple and Patty V and get their take on this whole thing although I doubt Patty has much to say.

[aces1180]

If USD has been worked into future Summit schedules and now they decide to bolt that causes a problem for all Summit schools. If this is the case and I don't see The Summit just letting USD walk away without paying an exit fee nor should they.

Would be nice to hear from Douple and Patty V and get their take on this whole thing although I doubt Patty has much to say.

Patty V will blame NDSU and suspend half of our team for the next two games.

[Shawn-O]

Well Congrats to USD and UND on finding a conference home for "All" your sports. The only thing left to do for your teams is to actually matter and not be considered the conference patsy.

What will be the future UXD's? the path of Northern Colorado??


UND has hockey...That is all their fans care about anyway.

They continue to be the power in the Minnesota and Wisconsin vacated WCHA soon.


I love how the UXD's are looking to blame the MVFC for not expanding, USD is what 0-3 against the Valley and UND can't beat NAIA teams. Why would they or should they expand to help them? They won't and I'm glad they didn't

Have fun with the travel



http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_JNFvqLZICLI/TDD3uclvaaI/AAAAAAAAB0w/csXhZXkp2P4/s320/sour+grapes.jpg

[OrygunBison]

I'm not sure how many of you have ever read a contract before or really know why we need them. Granted, I haven't read this particular contract but in general terms, the only reason that you have a contract is to outline the legal process for when the relationship goes to shit. It certainly is not meant to be a method to hold hands and sing campfire songs.

All parties know that it is in both their and their counterpart's best interest to settle out of court. Contracts almost always have some sort of arbitration or mediation clause to do just that. If they don't, generally they are a pretty one-sided contract.

I also think that this is a non issue. This whole process is likely anticipated and counted in as part of the initial agreement of the penalty amount. Nobody will be surprised by this...except for a few fans.

[Tatanka]

I'm not sure how many of you have ever read a contract before or really know why we need them. Granted, I haven't read this particular contract but in general terms, the only reason that you have a contract is to outline the legal process for when the relationship goes to shit. It certainly is not meant to be a method to hold hands and sing campfire songs.

All parties know that it is in both their and their counterpart's best interest to settle out of court. Contracts almost always have some sort of arbitration or mediation clause to do just that. If they don't, generally they are a pretty one-sided contract.

I also think that this is a non issue. This whole process is likely anticipated and counted in as part of the initial agreement of the penalty amount. Nobody will be surprised by this...except for a few fans.

Contracts ultimately define the nature of a relationship, the rules of engagement, and yes, you're correct, what each side can expect if the whole thing becomes a dumpster fire. What makes them fun is when one side or the other decides to not behave in a manner consistent with the spirit of the contract (if they operate outside the letter of the contract it's generally pretty cut and dry unless it's poorly written).

It would be hard to fathom a contract like this not having clearly defined penalty clauses. But then again, who knows.

[aces1180]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_JNFvqLZICLI/TDD3uclvaaI/AAAAAAAAB0w/csXhZXkp2P4/s320/sour+grapes.jpg

NDSU is happy with the Summit and MVFC, but your attempt at humor is noted.

[Shawn-O]

NDSU is happy with the Summit and MVFC, but your attempt at humor is noted.

As you should be! Looks like things have turned out very well for all Dakota schools involved. Best of luck to NDSU on their future endeavors.

[JackJD]

Wouldn't be the first time that lawyers enabled douchebag behavior. Won't be the last.

Throwing the flag on that one, Tatanka. Lawyers enabled the behavior? The decision to go with the Big Sky and terminate the relationship wasn't made by the lawyers for the parties. The lawyers come in after the parties make those decisions.

Although, USD's President is a lawyer. :) (He's a good guy, very sharp etc.)

[Tatanka]

Throwing the flag on that one, Tatanka. Lawyers enabled the behavior? The decision to go with the Big Sky and terminate the relationship wasn't made by the lawyers for the parties. The lawyers come in after the parties make those decisions.

Although, USD's President is a lawyer. :) (He's a good guy, very sharp etc.)

Nope, actually you just proved my point. Although they haven't yet exhibited the behavior, IMHO the douchebag behavior happens a lot less often unless there was a whole team of legal types waiting to support it.

Hence the use of the term "enabling", as opposed to "endorsing" or "committing".

Now don't take this as a rant against the legal profession. There are good lawyers and douchebag lawyers, just like there are good IT people and douchebag IT people.

[aces1180]

http://waynenelson.areavoices.com/2010/11/01/no-south-dakota-announcement-today/

Vermilion is silent today.

[bisonmike2]

What is there to negotiate? Make them pay the entire amount.

exactly. you signed the contract, if you want out pay the full price. This negotiation should take approximately 5 minutes. I'll even preside over the negotiations for 50% of my normal fee.

[wow]

This is probably a dumb question, but does SUU have to pay the Summit for leaving?

[tjbison]

This is probably a dumb question, but does SUU have to pay the Summit for leaving?

SUU has been a member for several years, the 500k I think was to stay for 5 yrs at least for USD which is the same deal SDSU and NDSU signed