Talent Level - NDSU VS. MVFC

[KTF]

Phil Hansen, on the post game show, alluded to the fact that NDSU may have a talent gap compared to other teams amoung the MVFC.

Do you we as BV nationers agree and if so how big is the gap?

One position that seems like their is a big gap is the RB's. Look at YSU and ISU, they seemed bigger, stronger, and faster. They appear to be mirror images of Tyler Roehl. I don't see any of the backs we have now being the physical nature of these guys.

[Capn_Cat]

Phil Hansen, on the post game show, alluded to the fact that NDSU may have a talent gap compared to other teams amoung the MVFC.

Do you we as BV nationers agree and if so how big is the gap?

One position that seems like their is a big gap is the RB's. Look at YSU and ISU, they seemed bigger, stronger, and faster. They appear to be mirror images of Tyler Roehl. I don't see any of the backs we have now being the physical nature of these guys.


I think the Prairie Poopers match up well in the conference. Remember that it's all recruiting. UNI recruits RBs and such from everywhere, maybe NDSU does, too, but for some reason, you're not landing the bigguns.

Also, I believe you will be fighting the fact that you're new to FCS for just a few more years. ILSU and YSU, like UNI, are established players in the division with long stading ties to HS coaches all over.

[Civil06]

I never thought DJ would be half of what he's showing us right now. I don't think RB is where we come up short.

With that in mind, I hope Ojuri and Crockett can get on the field. RB talent will be the least of our concerns if that happens. :nod:

[mebisonII]

Hard to believe that our RB talent level is seriously lacking given the number of 100+ yd games our RBs have turned in the last few years. I agree about our current RBs not being the big, bruising backs, but I do think they are plenty talented, just in a different style.

I really don't have any idea as far as other positions. There are so many little things that contribute (penalties, line getting pushed around, poor play-calling), that I don't know if you can really see enough to compare on a pure-physical-talent basis.

[KTF]

I use RB as an example, their are better examples, just one I noticed...

[Scooter1]

I would say that on the defensive line, there is a gap. You simply can't have a 265 pound starting defensive end and 280 pound backup DT kicked off the team and pretend that they wouldn't have made a huge difference. How much do you think that we miss Johnson and Reid Jr right now? I say we miss them a lot. I will postulate that had these two kept their noses clean, we wouldn't be having this discussion. We all knew that this was going to hurt us, yet some are acting shocked when it starts to become a reality.

[99Bison]

Phil Hansen, on the post game show, alluded to the fact that NDSU may have a talent gap compared to other teams amoung the MVFC.

Do you we as BV nationers agree and if so how big is the gap?

One position that seems like their is a big gap is the RB's. Look at YSU and ISU, they seemed bigger, stronger, and faster. They appear to be mirror images of Tyler Roehl. I don't see any of the backs we have now being the physical nature of these guys.

IMO, I generally disagree with NDSU having some big talent gap when compared to the rest of the MVFC. Each teams has strengths and weakness any given year, but accross the board of whole teams don't see a gap. Besides the games would have been much different the last three years if this "gap" existed... Unless of course our coaches and a few players were excellent at smoke and mirrors and generating confusion on the other team (like good coaching at DIII schools). Don't really buy the depth thing on a gap either, every team has several people hurt and several young players stepping in. Being news to the conference and FCS in general will affect recruiting for a few more years, however the other advantages NDSU has should certainly minimize those concerns at this point... this is not 7 years ago.

[Bison"FANatic"]

every team has several people hurt and several young players stepping in.

This is the key for me. We are still feeling the effects from the few bad recruiting classes. Our younger guys that should be stepping in for a few plays here and there or filling in for a injured player are starting or playing considerable amounts of time.

Thank god for the JUCO Chad Wilson or things could be very very ugly. It also is very tough to lose Gratzek one of the most talented and I do believe the strongest guy on the team and not have it have a affect on how many yards you give up on the ground.

[Mandan_Herd_Fan]

I don't think our O and D lines have that "nasty" attitude that is needed in this conference.

[stevdock]

Our depth is a huge issue at just about every position. Where most teams are bringing in a #2 that is almost as good as their #1, we are not able to do that right now. Because of the recruiting classes from a few years ago, it's a problem that will also last throughout this year and maybe into next.

[NDSUDude]

It takes talent to beat a Big 12 team, we have to get our heads together and get our scheme in place. We have talent.

[CAS4127]

I don't think our O and D lines have that "nasty" attitude that is needed in this conference.

Very good observation IMHO, and add in the LB's while your are at it.

[Twentysix]

I never thought DJ would be half of what he's showing us right now. I don't think RB is where we come up short.

With that in mind, I hope Ojuri and Crockett can get on the field. RB talent will be the least of our concerns if that happens. :nod:

He doesnt even live in North Dakota anymore does he? Maybe im confusing him with another running back being ousted from the team during spring practice.

[tony]

He doesnt even live in North Dakota anymore does he? Maybe im confusing him with another running back being ousted from the team during spring practice.

He's in the campus directory, for what that's worth.

[DjKyRo]

He doesnt even live in North Dakota anymore does he? Maybe im confusing him with another running back being ousted from the team during spring practice.

He's still enrolled (from what I understand) and it's been reported that he's been spotted watching practices.

[Herd]

If we treated the Valley games like they were against the MAC, we wouldn't have a problem. Our guys are not getting up for these Valley games like they should be. I think it's more about emotion, passion, and preparation than it is about talent.

[99Bison]

Our depth is a huge issue at just about every position. Where most teams are bringing in a #2 that is almost as good as their #1, we are not able to do that right now. Because of the recruiting classes from a few years ago, it's a problem that will also last throughout this year and maybe into next.

What about Indiana State, Ill St., Western Ill, they don't seem to have a problem in the exact same situation...

[Grizzled]

He's still enrolled (from what I understand) and it's been reported that he's been spotted watching practices.

I'm suprised he's still here. I heard some things on a road trip a few weeks ago that really, really made me shake my head about this coaching staff and that really explained a lot about past off field problems we have had.

[EndZoneQB]

He doesnt even live in North Dakota anymore does he? Maybe im confusing him with another running back being ousted from the team during spring practice.

Wrong. I have personally seen him this fall at practices/scrimmages. Everything I heard is it was a stupid mistake letting the team down, he's extremely sorry for how he handled it, and he is happy to have a 2nd chance. It almost sounded like his situation was handled by how his teammates got on him for it rather than the suspension itself.

Either way, I think not having Ojuri has been a big issue this year as well. He is the bigger "complete" back we don't have on the roster right now - the Lamar Gordon type. He had a handful of MAC offers, and seems to have the total package.

[KTF]

I'm suprised he's still here. I heard some things on a road trip a few weeks ago that really, really made me shake my head about this coaching staff and that really explained a lot about past off field problems we have had.

I would like to hear that story but not sure I want to hear it in a way...

[bisonfan11]

Seriously IF we have a glaring talent gap versus the rest of the MVC then that should be the final straw to get rid of Bohl and the coaching staff. I mean us "common" fans knew how tough the MVC was going to be week in and week out, shouldn't the coaching staff known that as well? UNI, SIU, and every other MVC teams has the SAME 63 scholly's to work with. Why would NDSU have recruited less talent than any other MVC team? If Bohl seriously wanted out after the '07 season he might as well resigned rather than put together some of the crappiest recruiting classes in NDSU's long storied history. If our talent gap is so glaring versus the rest of the MVC then we will have to wait 5-10 years before we can challenge the "big boys" of the MVC because if every other teams are already a head of us in talent we will be playing catch up for quite some time. That said I believe that we have more talent than we normally show, it is more the fact that our coaching staff is not "tough" enough with the players that is leading to the inconstant play. But if the talent gap is really that bad Bohl should have already been fired because to recruit poor talent for more than one year is inexcusable by NDSU standards.

[NDSUstudent]

I don't think there is a talent gap, but there is a depth gap. That is from being young due to failed recruiting classes. Bohl hit on it in Bison feedback tonight, he said he likes our young DTs but they are a bit too light. Their is just a big gap between them and Gratzek, and DT might be the most important position in the Tampa 2. Just look at the great Tampa Two defenses and they'll likely have a great DT leading the way.

I do think our depth has improved since last year but it is going to be a slow process because the only way to build it is with retention and guys maturing.

[KTF]

I don't think there is a talent gap, but there is a depth gap. That is from being young due to failed recruiting classes. Bohl hit on it in Bison feedback tonight, he said he likes our young DTs but they are a bit too light. Their is just a big gap between them and Gratzek, and DT might be the most important position in the Tampa 2. Just look at the great Tampa Two defenses and they'll likely have a great DT leading the way.

I do think our depth has improved since last year but it is going to be a slow process because the only way to build it is with retention and guys maturing.

He mentioned that Gratzek was a "free technique" player. What did he mean by this?

[BadlandsBison]

He mentioned that Gratzek was a "free technique" player. What did he mean by this?

I think Gratzek basically gets to shoot a gap and see if he can get behind the line of scrimmage. Think Warren Sapp. In the Tampa 2, Sapp was the free technique guy and McFarland was the nose tackle (McFarland actually had to worry about a gap or even 2 gaps on a givin play).

[NDSUstudent]

I think Badlands got it. It is just the most athletic DT, that just shoots through his gap and tries to disrupt the play in the offensive backfield. I think the term for it is "three technique" though.

[ndsubison1]

I don't think there is a talent gap, but there is a depth gap. That is from being young due to failed recruiting classes. Bohl hit on it in Bison feedback tonight, he said he likes our young DTs but they are a bit too light. Their is just a big gap between them and Gratzek, and DT might be the most important position in the Tampa 2. Just look at the great Tampa Two defenses and they'll likely have a great DT leading the way.

I do think our depth has improved since last year but it is going to be a slow process because the only way to build it is with retention and guys maturing.

This is just what I was going to say. Starters wise, we are just as talented across the board. But depth wise we are lacking compared to other teams in the conference. OL, DL, secondary, just about every position our team just doesnt have the overall depth that other MVC teams have.

[ndsubison1]

He mentioned that Gratzek was a "free technique" player. What did he mean by this?

Basically let him roam and do whatever he wants on the line is what I take from it...

[Bison bison]

guys, it's the three technique.

it's when a defensive tackle lines up in the 3 - hole (B gap) between the offensive guard and tackle.

http://sturminator.blogspot.com/2010/03/what-is-3-technique.html

[KTF]

I don't think there is a talent gap, but there is a depth gap. That is from being young due to failed recruiting classes. Bohl hit on it in Bison feedback tonight, he said he likes our young DTs but they are a bit too light. Their is just a big gap between them and Gratzek, and DT might be the most important position in the Tampa 2. Just look at the great Tampa Two defenses and they'll likely have a great DT leading the way.

I do think our depth has improved since last year but it is going to be a slow process because the only way to build it is with retention and guys maturing.

or another way to look at it, they are playing before they are physically ready to play at the college level. I would hope that by next fall these guys will have put on a few pounds to be above average players.

[KTF]

guys, it's the three technique.

it's when a defensive tackle lines up in the 3 - hole (C gap) between the offensive guard and tackle.

http://sturminator.blogspot.com/2010/03/what-is-3-technique.html

That was a great read thanks! Ok aonther quick question, why does the interior two d-linemen rotate positions on the line every so often? Have noticed this on the dline alot lately. Different schemes? Better penetration? different assignments?

I have also noticed they do this when the o line is somewhat set. I am guessing it is to screw with the O-line and QB..

[ndsubison1]

That was a great read thanks! Ok aonther quick question, why does the interior two d-linemen rotate positions on the line every so often? Have noticed this on the dline alot lately. Different schemes? Better penetration? different assignments?

I have also noticed they do this when the o line is somewhat set. I am guessing it is to screw with the O-line and QB..

It varies. I would say depends on the defensive play call. Strong/weak side, assignments, where the TE lines up, give different looks, multiple stuff like that.

[silkamilkamonico]

We are averaging 4.6 ypc as a team. Our top RB is averaging 6.3 ypc and our top 3 RB's are all averaging over 5.0 ypc. Our RB unit is as good as it's been here in recent history, maybe our best IMHO. we do not need Ojuri or Crocket, or Roehl or Paschel or anyone else.

What we need is more depth at oline and more talent/depth at dline. I know you gus like our LB's, but I personally think we need to upgrade at that area. We do not control the LOS at all on defense.

I also do not like the Tampa 2, as I think there is very little margin for error if you aren't healthy or don't have the players set in place.

I also think our offensive WC scheme, or whatever it is, is outdated and needs to be changed. Brock is a guy with a big arm that can throw the ball around. I'd love to see more medium level throws next year with him, as opposed to these short routes or long balls. He can throw it all over the field, let him.

We don't even utilize our TE's. I heard so much about this Matt Veldman gu ywhen he got here, a 6'7" TE, and he has had very little impact on our offense. 3 catches in 5 games as a JR in what is supposed to be a TE friednly system? Blah.

Just my own perception and opinion.

[ndsubison1]

I think the WCO can be a very good offense when executed well. But if you dont have a consistent/accurate QB it looks very, very bad at times. It's also a tough system. I read a Sporting News article that Donovan McNabb was still learning the system, reads, all that after several years with the Eagles. I think Jensen would be a better fit in the spread IMO. Maybe the coaches will try to tweak our O to fit our QB like a lot of coaches do across the country. We have seen some spread like versions when Jensen was in at times too though. I'm not sure if our coaching staff will do that as we know they've been hesitant to make drastic changes :hide:

[TheBisonator]

I think the WCO can be a very good offense when executed well. But if you dont have a consistent/accurate QB it looks very, very bad at times. It's also a tough system. I read a Sporting News article that Donovan McNabb was still learning the system, reads, all that after several years with the Eagles. I think Jensen would be a better fit in the spread IMO. Maybe the coaches will try to tweak our O to fit our QB like a lot of coaches do across the country. We have seen some spread like versions when Jensen was in at times too though. I'm not sure if our coaching staff will do that as we know they've been hesitant to make drastic changes :hide:

I have been saying for years now that this team's offense needs to switch to the spread. But people mock me for it.

[Bisonguy]

We are averaging 4.6 ypc as a team. Our top RB is averaging 6.3 ypc and our top 3 RB's are all averaging over 5.0 ypc. Our RB unit is as good as it's been here in recent history, maybe our best IMHO. we do not need Ojuri or Crocket, or Roehl or Paschel or anyone else.

What we need is more depth at oline and more talent/depth at dline. I know you gus like our LB's, but I personally think we need to upgrade at that area. We do not control the LOS at all on defense.

I also do not like the Tampa 2, as I think there is very little margin for error if you aren't healthy or don't have the players set in place.

I also think our offensive WC scheme, or whatever it is, is outdated and needs to be changed. Brock is a guy with a big arm that can throw the ball around. I'd love to see more medium level throws next year with him, as opposed to these short routes or long balls. He can throw it all over the field, let him.

We don't even utilize our TE's. I heard so much about this Matt Veldman gu ywhen he got here, a 6'7" TE, and he has had very little impact on our offense. 3 catches in 5 games as a JR in what is supposed to be a TE friednly system? Blah.

Just my own perception and opinion.

Veldman has pretty much been injured the entire season.

[BisonNolesFan77]

Veldman has pretty much been injured the entire season.

Veldman's career here has been plagued by injuries...

[BisonNolesFan77]

My thoughts, there is a talent level gap between us and the rest of the MVFC, but like has been said many times, the gap is really shown as you work your way down the depth chart. The lame duck recruiting classes are something that will stick with this program for awhile in my opinion. At the same time, you can have all the athletes you want, but if you can't develop them, you won't see results.