Article on possible Summit expansion

[tony]

http://oaklandpostonline.com/2010/10/12/sports/university-of-north-dakota-may-join-summit-league/

Oakland University Athletic Director Tracy Huth:

I think it can strengthen our league from the standpoint that, when you talk about the Dakota schools, those are the major state schools for those states. The question in my mind right now is that if we expand and bring in North Dakota, we have an 11-team league. I’m not sure how we handle that within all the team sports particularly with all the traveling and having an uneven number of teams. I’ll be curious to see if we try and continue to expand.

While the worst possible thing to do would be add teams that make other established members look elsewhere, if the league adds UND and SUU goes to the Big Sky, then you get rid of the worst road trip in the Summit and replace it with one that isn't all that bad. That'd be a win-win.

[rabidrabbit]

Interesting note that EIU expands their connection to the SUmmit, by adding men's soccer.

Don't be surprised that EIU will also receive an all sports invite to Summit, especially if go to a combined MVC/Summit football league.

[tjbison]

Interesting note that EIU expands their connection to the SUmmit, by adding men's soccer.

Don't be surprised that EIU will also receive an all sports invite to Summit, especially if go to a combined MVC/Summit football league.

And I would see EIU and USD to the MVFC before UND, just out of pure location as UNI would happily vote for USD AND EIU over UND, as would the Illinois schools

THis could be interesting

[lakesbison]

EIU ROCKS, ill take em

[Greenie]

Montana and Southern Utah are the key schools in the reallignment of the Big Sky, Summit, and MVFC.

If the Big Sky keeps Montana and adds Southern Utah, they will have 10 all-sports members and 12 football schools. Ideal for the Big Sky.

The Summit will end up at 10 schools with USD and UND in, and Centenary and SUU out. No reason to add E Ill to make 11.

The MVFC will end up at 11 schools with USD and UND in. No reason to add E Ill and make 12. One big division just like the old Big Ten (Eleven). The MVFC would be interesting from a management perspective considering it would have 5 MVC teams, 5 Summit teams, and 1 Horizon. It no longer would be predominately MVC teams.

[tjbison]

Montana and Southern Utah are the key schools in the reallignment of the Big Sky, Summit, and MVFC.

If the Big Sky keeps Montana and adds Southern Utah, they will have 10 all-sports members and 12 football schools. Ideal for the Big Sky.

The Summit will end up at 10 schools with USD and UND in, and Centenary and SUU out. No reason to add E Ill to make 11.

The MVFC will end up at 11 schools with USD and UND in. No reason to add E Ill and make 12. One big division just like the old Big Ten (Eleven). The MVFC would be interesting from a management perspective considering it would have 5 MVC teams, 5 Summit teams, and 1 Horizon. It no longer would be predominately MVC teams.

you seriously think if EIU applied for the MVFC if they were expanding they would get turned down to add UND?? I don't think so, I have said it before 99% of the Valley AD's don't care about UND granted thats an assumption but they would much rather add a Illinois team than travel to UND, EIU is established and at least can win.

[Bison bison]

Why would the MVFC move to 11? What is the value in that? 9 is perfect.

[RedRiver]

Montana and Southern Utah are the key schools in the reallignment of the Big Sky, Summit, and MVFC.

If the Big Sky keeps Montana and adds Southern Utah, they will have 10 all-sports members and 12 football schools. Ideal for the Big Sky.

The Summit will end up at 10 schools with USD and UND in, and Centenary and SUU out. No reason to add E Ill to make 11.

The MVFC will end up at 11 schools with USD and UND in. No reason to add E Ill and make 12. One big division just like the old Big Ten (Eleven). The MVFC would be interesting from a management perspective considering it would have 5 MVC teams, 5 Summit teams, and 1 Horizon. It no longer would be predominately MVC teams.

Why do you have the MVFC for expansion? They're not going to expand, especially to 11 schools which would only allow one nonconference game. The big Sky & Summit are the only conferences that may have expansion in the short term.

[lakesbison]

Why Isnt Tom Douple Smart Enough To Stay Away??

Didnt Tom Douple Read All The Crap Spewed Anti-summit From Them??

Hasnt Tom Douple Seen How They Only Are Buthockey?

[Tatanka]

Montana and Southern Utah are the key schools in the reallignment of the Big Sky, Summit, and MVFC.

If the Big Sky keeps Montana and adds Southern Utah, they will have 10 all-sports members and 12 football schools. Ideal for the Big Sky.

The Summit will end up at 10 schools with USD and UND in, and Centenary and SUU out. No reason to add E Ill to make 11.

The MVFC will end up at 11 schools with USD and UND in. No reason to add E Ill and make 12. One big division just like the old Big Ten (Eleven). The MVFC would be interesting from a management perspective considering it would have 5 MVC teams, 5 Summit teams, and 1 Horizon. It no longer would be predominately MVC teams.

Wrong. UND is the key school in any realignment. Those other schools are simply pawns to be moved and rearranged at will. I mean, how many of them even have hockey?

[TransAmBison]

Wrong. UND is the key school in any realignment. Those other schools are simply pawns to be moved and rearranged at will. I mean, how many of them even have hockey?
I heard Montana is only looking at moving up because they are afraid to be in a conference with UND. If I remember, that is why they said we moved up too.

[tony]

I heard Montana is only looking at moving up because they are afraid to be in a conference with UND. If I remember, that is why they said we moved up too.

Well, UND has only themselves to blame for scaring schools off. They should quit driving around other schools' campuses and doing stuff like this:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_WT296Ycwut8/SeLryGUVy2I/AAAAAAAAA3g/npNl6c5i_sU/s400/topten_luther.jpg

"Grizzly bears, come out and play-ee-yay!" (for best effect, read in the voice of the character, Bruce, from Family Guy.)

New nickname idea for UND: The Rogues.

[sambini]

http://oaklandpostonline.com/2010/10/12/sports/university-of-north-dakota-may-join-summit-league/

Oakland University Athletic Director Tracy Huth:


While the worst possible thing to do would be add teams that make other established members look elsewhere, if the league adds UND and SUU goes to the Big Sky, then you get rid of the worst road trip in the Summit and replace it with one that isn't all that bad. That'd be a win-win.

Thanks Tony for the link+++

[zooropa]

Why would the MVFC move to 11? What is the value in that? 9 is perfect.


Why do you have the MVFC for expansion? They're not going to expand, especially to 11 schools which would only allow one nonconference game.

To drop the 'round robin beat the crap out of each other' schedule currently in place. Look at the Valley. Fun now, but painful come playoff time as only one Valley team is getting a berth (my guess).

[Tatanka]

To drop the 'round robin beat the crap out of each other' schedule currently in place. Look at the Valley. Fun now, but painful come playoff time as only one Valley team is getting a berth (my guess).

I happen to really like the round robin play everyone approach. That way there's no dispute as to who's number one at the end of the day. The comparative score index wizards would be way too powerful any other way.

[NDSU1980]

Why do you have the MVFC for expansion? They're not going to expand, especially to 11 schools which would only allow one nonconference game. The big Sky & Summit are the only conferences that may have expansion in the short term.

You are oh, so, correct about the MVFC. There is no reason to expand from nine. I see no reason to split into two divisions either. That just has the effect of watering down the auto bid. Leave things as they are. I don't see any reason to let a doormat like UND into the Summit either, but that's a whole nother post.

[zooropa]

I happen to really like the round robin play everyone approach. That way there's no dispute as to who's number one at the end of the day. The comparative score index wizards would be way too powerful any other way.

I'd agree with that if it didn't make it more difficult to get teams in the playoffs. Soften up the schedule a bit and you can turn a 7-4 team into an 8-3 team. Doesn't make the team any better, but it does give them a shot at the playoffs.

[zooropa]

That just has the effect of watering down the auto bid.

C'mon. The CAA had Northeastern and Hofstra last year, and that didn't diminish the reputation of the conference.

[Tatanka]

I'd agree with that if it didn't make it more difficult to get teams in the playoffs. Soften up the schedule a bit and you can turn a 7-4 team into an 8-3 team. Doesn't make the team any better, but it does give them a shot at the playoffs.

Well, thanks but no thanks.

[Bison bison]

I'd agree with that if it didn't make it more difficult to get teams in the playoffs. Soften up the schedule a bit and you can turn a 7-4 team into an 8-3 team. Doesn't make the team any better, but it does give them a shot at the playoffs.

FYI your argument sucks.

Watering down the competition to make the conference better - sorry doesn't work that way. I could bring our some high-powered mathematics to prove the point, but I am tired and my super bison brain needs a rest.

[zooropa]

Watering down the competition to make the conference better

Doesn't make it better. Makes it look better.

Or in terms you might understand:

The fat friend rule.

:D

[Bison bison]

Of course we know that one. Our fat friend is SDSU.

[zooropa]

Of course we know that one. Our fat friend is SDSU.

(cough) USD (cough)

[Greenie]

you seriously think if EIU applied for the MVFC if they were expanding they would get turned down to add UND?? I don't think so, I have said it before 99% of the Valley AD's don't care about UND granted thats an assumption but they would much rather add a Illinois team than travel to UND, EIU is established and at least can win.

EIU can't just apply to the MVFC, they would need to leave the OVC for everything else. The Summit wouldn't add them unless there was another school to make 12.

No difference between 12 and 11 for a football conference in FCS. FBS of course likes 12 because they can split into divisions and have a championship game.

The whole purpose of this Summit/MVFC/Big Sky football study is to make sure that the football schools have a home in a stable, auto-bid league. Patty Viverito has said just that. It is good for FCS stability in the central/west. People might not like that UND and USD will be in the MVFC, but it is going to happen

[RedRiver]

I disagree. UND & USD and a few others will be in some type of alliance with the MVFC but not conference members. This will help with admin and scheduling. The MVFC is prefectly set-up with the current nine members.

[tjbison]

EIU can't just apply to the MVFC, they would need to leave the OVC for everything else. The Summit wouldn't add them unless there was another school to make 12.

No difference between 12 and 11 for a football conference in FCS. FBS of course likes 12 because they can split into divisions and have a championship game.

The whole purpose of this Summit/MVFC/Big Sky football study is to make sure that the football schools have a home in a stable, auto-bid league. Patty Viverito has said just that. It is good for FCS stability in the central/west. People might not like that UND and USD will be in the MVFC, but it is going to happen

Tell me why the MVFC would want to go from the Perfect 9 member conference to 11 with UND and USD?? Just because Patty spouted her mouth about talks with the BSC doesn't mean crap as she has NO say over expansion and the Member schools will decide. Who knows whats going to happen but Its highly unlikely IMO that the MVFC brings in 2 subpar transitional teams just because they join the Summit. It might be a different story if UND and USD would be having the same success NDSU and SDSU had.

[DIBISON]

EIU can't just apply to the MVFC, they would need to leave the OVC for everything else. The Summit wouldn't add them unless there was another school to make 12.

No difference between 12 and 11 for a football conference in FCS. FBS of course likes 12 because they can split into divisions and have a championship game.

The whole purpose of this Summit/MVFC/Big Sky football study is to make sure that the football schools have a home in a stable, auto-bid league. Patty Viverito has said just that. It is good for FCS stability in the central/west. People might not like that UND and USD will be in the MVFC, but it is going to happen

Did you hear the MVFC commish Patty V on radio yesterday? Please drop the UND and expansion talk until it is closer to reality.

[EricB]

Well, UND has only themselves to blame for scaring schools off. They should quit driving around other schools' campuses and doing stuff like this:

What are you talking about? How is UND scaring off other schools? Lastly, who is driving around other campuses? I am interested in hearing about this, seriously… Also, do you really think a leagues administer/commissioners cares what a fan says on their fan blogs and or message boards? I hardly doubt that has any affect on a schools membership for admission to their league. The UND administration has been very compliant and has gone out of their way to show the Summit that they are serious about joining the Summit League.

[CAS4127]

The UND administration has been very compliant and has gone out of their way to show the Summit that they are serious about joining the Summit League.

Desperation can cause humans to conduct themselves in a manner inconsistent with their underlying characteristics--just sayin.

[Tatanka]

The UND administration has been very compliant and has gone out of their way to show the Summit that they are serious about joining the Summit League.

Oh, no, my friend. It's the other way around. Remember UND is in a position of power here...

[56BISON73]

Desperation can cause humans to conduct themselves in a manner inconsistent with their underlying characteristics--just sayin.

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl: Well said!!!!!! And oh so true.

[rustywallace]

http://www.egriz.com/grizboard/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=46294

und usd and suu to big sky?

[coldspot]

http://www.egriz.com/grizboard/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=46294

und usd and suu to big sky?

damn, you beat me to it. one of the posters there thinks this means montana and msu are on the way out and thats why they made the additions to the conference.

[rustywallace]

I started a new thread in news about other schools

[EndZoneQB]

damn, you beat me to it. one of the posters there thinks this means montana and msu are on the way out and thats why they made the additions to the conference.

You're right, I thought you were wrong, but it'd be 14 teams for football wouldn't it? BUT, these are rumors on a message board by a guy that has 41 posts and joined September 1st...so decide if it's legit or not.

[Hansel]

Attendance Figures as of Today for fun

Team, Attendance, Natl Rank
MVFC
NDSU 17384 (8)
YSU 16785 (9)
UNI 14275 (21)
SIU 13212 (23)
SDSU 12825 (24)
WIU 11483 (27)
MzSU 10338 (36)
ISU-red 6776 (71)
ISU-blue 5371 (85)

Big Sky
Monty 25630 (2)
Monty St 14309 (19)
NAU 9679 (41)
EWU 8774 (47)
Sac St 7518 (64)
WSU 6946 (67)
PSU 5725 (78)
ISU 5502 (83)
UNC 5414 (84)

[tony]

Attendance Figures as of Today for fun

Big Sky
Monty 25630 (2)
Monty St 14309 (19)
NAU 9679 (41)


Wow, big drop off after the Montana schools.

Also, you gotta love the MVFC - the bottom two teams are the attendance leaders (hopefully both start moving up the standings soon - Go Penguins!) :)

[Hansel]

Wow, big drop off after the Montana schools.

Also, you gotta love the MVFC - the bottom two teams are the attendance leaders (hopefully both start moving up the standings soon - Go Penguins!) :)

The traditional BSC bottom feeders are essentially an automatic 4 wins against the tradititional top teams

(Sac, Portland, IdSU, and UNC) vs (Montana, MSU, EWU, NAU, WSU)


Bottom
2010 (1-10)
2009 (1-15)
2008 (2-18)
2007 (2-18)

[Facts]

Attendance Figures as of Today for fun

Team, Attendance, Natl Rank
MVFC
NDSU 17384 (8)
YSU 16785 (9)
UNI 14275 (21)
SIU 13212 (23)
SDSU 12825 (24)
WIU 11483 (27)
MzSU 10338 (36)
ISU-red 6776 (71)
ISU-blue 5371 (85)

Big Sky
Monty 25630 (2)
Monty St 14309 (19)
NAU 9679 (41)
EWU 8774 (47)
Sac St 7518 (64)
WSU 6946 (67)
PSU 5725 (78)
ISU 5502 (83)
UNC 5414 (84)

Do you have the link for that??

[tony]

Do you have the link for that??

http://web1.ncaa.org/mfb/2010/Internet/attendance/FCS_AVGATTENDANCE.pdf

Going to take some serious crowds for NDSU to break 18,000 per game attendance, btw.

[Tatanka]

http://web1.ncaa.org/mfb/2010/Internet/attendance/FCS_AVGATTENDANCE.pdf

Going to take some serious crowds for NDSU to break 18,000 per game attendance, btw.

Well consider that a fail then. Next game will be lucky to crack 14k.

[The_Sicatoka]

You're right, I thought you were wrong, but it'd be 14 teams for football wouldn't it? BUT, these are rumors on a message board by a guy that has 41 posts and joined September 1st...so decide if it's legit or not.

The Griz poster in question had the news of Cal-Davis and Cal Poly becoming FB affiliates of the Big Sky before the press release. That's some decent cred.

[WYOBISONMAN]

I hope UND gets into the Sky. It will be a very poor conference with out the Montanas, but you know.......when it is closing time..........and you are drunked up pretty good.........and horny for anything that will take you.............you go do the fat girl (at least if you are from UND and had the lack of judgement to go to school there)......LOL!!!!!

http://blogdope.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/fat-girl-sex2.jpg

[The_Sicatoka]

WYO, please keep your personal photographs off the internet.

[WYOBISONMAN]

WYO, please keep your personal photographs off the internet.
Good comeback.......reps on that one......:p

[EndZoneQB]

The Griz poster in question had the news of Cal-Davis and Cal Poly becoming FB affiliates of the Big Sky before the press release. That's some decent cred.

Well, there you go clouding this thread with facts LOL. Yeah I guess I didn't look back into it, but just seemed kinda iffy. Plus, just because he knew of Poly/Davis, doesn't mean he would sniff knowing anything about UND/USD :)...but touche either way.

[TbonZach]

WYO, please keep your personal photographs off the internet.

Actually, I think that's DjKyRo down there.

[TransAmBison]

Actually, I think that's DjKyRo down there.
Oh, I believe he "chased" after her but she held out for somebody better...

[zooropa]

Actually, I think that's DjKyRo down there.

Okay, somebody *took* that picture, and that, I think is the creepiest part of it.

Also, does that guy have a snorkel?

[tony]

Okay, somebody *took* that picture, and that, I think is the creepiest part of it.


Hope it wasn't a coroner. :eek:

[zooropa]

Hope it wasn't a coroner. :eek:

That thought occurred to me.

[NDSUstudent]

Here is some interesting news...


SUU President Michael Benson has indicated the scheduling of a "special announcement" in the Centrum Arena for Wednesday at 2PM (MT). He further states that it is an "announcement that will be pretty exciting for our institution... that's all I can say right now."

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/showthread.php?77298-SUU-schedules-quot-Special-Announcement-quot-for-Wed.-2PM-%28MT%29.

[BlueLiner]

Here is some interesting news...

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/showthread.php?77298-SUU-schedules-quot-Special-Announcement-quot-for-Wed.-2PM-%28MT%29.

But there were no links provide in that thread on AGS.

What will happen to the Summit League if SUU and USD leave?

We would be down to eight teams, as Cent. is leaving this year.

[Tatanka]

But there were no links provide in that thread on AGS.

What will happen to the Summit League if SUU and USD leave?

We would be down to eight teams, as Cent. is leaving this year.

USD would have to be absolute mental midgets to leave. That said, I wouldn't put it past them.

[NDSUstudent]

Hopefully USD waits it out and gets into the MVFC eventually. I thought it was fun playing them in football this year and I've never had one issue with Yotes.

UND on the other hand can whither and die on their own Big Sky island for all I care.

[TbonZach]

Hopefully USD waits it out and gets into the MVFC eventually. I thought it was fun playing them in football this year and I've never had one issue with Yotes.

UND on the other hand can whither and die on their own Big Sky island for all I care.

^^ This ^^

[zooropa]

Here is some interesting news...

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/showthread.php?77298-SUU-schedules-quot-Special-Announcement-quot-for-Wed.-2PM-%28MT%29.

http://twitter.com/TerryVandrovec/statuses/28754667628

Somebody want to post this on the AGS board?

[NorthernBison]

According to Wayne, the Summit might not get a chance to invite UND.

http://siouxfb.areavoices.com/2010/10/26/conference-chatter-part-ii/

[NDSUstudent]

I think that is just some fan's blog. Not Wayne Nelson's of the GF Herald.

[NorthernBison]

I think that is just some fan's blog. Not Wayne Nelson's of the GF Herald.

Correct. Just a blog so consider the source. There is an article in the Herald but I haven't had a chance to read it. They had a picture of Fullerton so maybe somebody got some info out of him.

[zooropa]

It gets weirder and weirder:

http://twitter.com/TerryVandrovec/statuses/28808066747

[NorthernBison]

Reading the actual comments from Fullerton and the AD at USD and considering what was said, how they phrased it, and what wasn't said is very interesting.

Something MAY be happening and the Summit may not need to visit Grand Forks.

No predictions but this is way more than bloggers spewing scenarios. Whatever happens will be interesting.

[RedRiver]

http://www.argusleader.com/article/20101026/SPORTS0203/10260341/1002/SPORTS

Fullerton said that only full membership is on the table for USD & UND not football only membership. That puts USD in a tough positon with already having Summit membership but no football conference. Looks like their only two options are Big Sky full membership or Summit membership/football independent.

[NDSUstudent]

I think if USD plays this right it could get them into the MVFC.

[zooropa]

I think if USD plays this right it could get them into the MVFC.

I agree.

While the Valley isn't in favor of expansion, they may want to keep the Big Sky out of their footprint.

[tony]

Be interesting to see what happens.

Gotta be kind of happy for Southern Utah if they finally get into the Big Sky though (and it'd be nice to get rid of that road trip for Summit teams.)

And, Bisonatrix, I don't think there is really any bad blood between NDSU and the Big Sky. Some fans might hold a grudge, of course, but I doubt it's even on Taylor's radar - it sure didn't stop him from scheduling the two Montana schools, for example. Besides, you don't burn any bridges in DI because you never know what is going to happen in the future.

Hehe, gotta find that old Bakken column where he scums Idaho State and scoffs at NDSU supposedly wanting to play the Bengals from Pocatello rather than South Dakota State (as well as a whole bunch of things that have only gotten funnier as time marches on.)

[NorthernBison]

I think if USD plays this right it could get them into the MVFC.

You might be right.

[EndZoneQB]

I agree.

While the Valley isn't in favor of expansion, they may want to keep the Big Sky out of their footprint.

Do you think that ONLY USD gets that chance...sans UND? I gotta be honest, I'd LOL really hard if that happened. Definitely not opposed to USD being in the conference tho.

[NDSUstudent]

Do you think that ONLY USD gets that chance...sans UND? I gotta be honest, I'd LOL really hard if that happened. Definitely not opposed to USD being in the conference tho.

USD doesn't have many advantages over UND but geography is a big one.

[zooropa]

Do you think that ONLY USD gets that chance...sans UND? I gotta be honest, I'd LOL really hard if that happened. Definitely not opposed to USD being in the conference tho.

Yes.

Why?

USD adds stability to the Summit.

That means that (theoretically) USD already has three votes in hand @ the Valley (SDSU, WIU, NDSU). They probably only need 5 or 6 to get in. Of the remaining members Mo State & UNI are probably persuadable.

-----

UND, OTOH, isn't a member of the Summit yet, and it's an hour north of Fargo, which is the current outpost of Valley football. UND probably only has two votes from the Valley members (SDSU & NDSU) and I can't see any other members being easily persuaded.

[zooropa]

And here's where it gets kind of nasty:

If it weren't for that nickname, UND would probably have the same standing as USD, and would probably have 3 votes for admission to the Valley just like USD.

And as a package deal, UND + USD would offer real savings in travel expenses for the Valley. So it would be be an easier sell to the other 6 Valley members.

But with the scenario as currently in place, who's going to make that pitch? Who's going to pitch adding both USD and UND to the Valley? Douple? I don't think so. He's not going to spend whatever capital he has with the Valley for the sake of UND--a potential member that has openly flirted with the Big Sky.

[BlueBisonRock]

And here's where it gets kind of nasty:

If it weren't for that nickname, UND would probably have the same standing as USD, and would probably have 3 votes for admission to the Valley just like USD.

And as a package deal, UND + USD would offer real savings in travel expenses for the Valley. So it would be be an easier sell to the other 6 Valley members.

But with the scenario as currently in place, who's going to make that pitch? Who's going to pitch adding both USD and UND to the Valley? Douple? I don't think so. He's not going to spend whatever capital he has with the Valley for the sake of UND--a potential member that has openly flirted with the Big Sky.

Please keep in mind that UND is negotiating from a position of STRENGTH!

[tony]

Please keep in mind that UND is negotiating from a position of STRENGTH!

Hey, at least UND's options don't include one that requires tossing away $500k for nothing.

In UND's position, it's great to have options.

BTW, don't agree that USD/UND are great for Valley travel. USD is pretty good... UND not so much. Basically any team that gripes about going to Fargo is not going to be happy going to Grand Forks.

Here be the map:

http://www.championshipsubdivision.com/fcs-team-map/

OVC and Horizon give options in driving distance. By the time you get to SIU or YSU, probably 80% of the FCS is closer to them than UND or USD (or SDSU or NDSU.)

[zooropa]

don't agree that USD/UND are great for Valley travel.
It is if it splits into two divisions, and eliminates the round robin

[zooropa]

In UND's position, it's great to have options

Would the BSC want UND without USD?

Consider that Fullerton's most emphatic statements have been about UND. He's played it coy with USD and SUU is basically gone.

[NDSU1980]

Please keep in mind that UND is negotiating from a position of STRENGTH!

Please keep in mind that in regards to UND, we don't need them, we don't want them, and we don't care about them. :nod:

[56BISON73]

Please keep in mind that UND is negotiating from a position of STRENGTH!

So therefore they just dont negotiate.

[Tatanka]

Wow the winged monkeys are working overtime tonight... Hope for their sake the Big Fluffy commish isn't just pulling the same stuff that they so carefully carve out of their collective memories. Spin, MDs are doubled down. Get cher popcorn ready!

[Facts]

And here's where it gets kind of nasty:

If it weren't for that nickname, UND would probably have the same standing as USD, and would probably have 3 votes for admission to the Valley just like USD.

Speaking of that scapegoat... I'm pretty sure any conference in the country would've handled it the same way. "Get your house in order, then we'll talk".

[zooropa]

Speaking of that scapegoat... I'm pretty sure any conference in the country would've handled it the same way. "Get your house in order, then we'll talk".

Exactly. UND put themselves in this mess. Now they're stuck (IMO) waiting on USD.

[Tatanka]

Exactly. UND put themselves in this mess. Now they're stuck (IMO) waiting on USD.

No, no, NO. You've got it all wrong. This has been the plan all along, it just got screwed up by Chapman, Douple, the Summit League, locusts, floods, NDSU conspiracies, referees, and/or the NCAA.

[zooropa]

No, no, NO. You've got it all wrong. This has been the plan all along, it just got screwed up by Chapman, Douple, the Summit League, locusts, floods, NDSU conspiracies, referees, and/or the NCAA.

It would amuse you to know who said roughly the same thing yesterday.

UND rules:

1) UND makes no mistakes

2) If you think UND messed up, see rule #1

[SDbison]

According to Wayne, the Summit might not get a chance to invite UND.

http://siouxfb.areavoices.com/2010/10/26/conference-chatter-part-ii/
This was the best part of the article (sound familiar):
In a bizarre development, it seems as though President Kelley is currently out of the country until next week.

Not so bizarre with UND as their presidents are always everywhere else! bwahahahahahaha!

[aces1180]

One thing I find funny is how Sue fans mention that we are now jealous of them possibly getting into the BSC...Early on, yes, it would have been great to be accepted. Looking back, however, I'm glad we had a conference for all of our sports.

UND just renovated their baseball facility. Are they going to be a independent now? My guess is the Summit would tell them to shove it if they wanted to join as an affiliate in that sport or softball.

[Grizzled]

I've think most UND fans know how good we have it. There are a few who think we are jealous of the Big Sky but usually its in response to someone posting how terrible the Big Sky is and how big of a mistake it would be to go there. The Big Sky would be good for them. If the Montana's stay it will be even better. In my opinion you find a home for your football and worry about your baseball later. Kraft field was redone for the city of Grand Forks as much as it was for UND from what I understand.

[siouxdgj]

I've think most UND fans know how good we have it. There are a few who think we are jealous of the Big Sky but usually its in response to someone posting how terrible the Big Sky is and how big of a mistake it would be to go there. The Big Sky would be good for them. If the Montana's stay it will be even better. In my opinion you find a home for your football and worry about your baseball later. Kraft field was redone for the city of Grand Forks as much as it was for UND from what I understand.

Grizzled, I agree. I think NDSU is in an enviable situation. Wish we could feel as secure. We definitely do need a conference home for football. You're absolutely correct in saying we can worry about baseball later. Rome wasn't built in a day.

[Herd]

It wouldn't surprise me if . . .

UND commits to the Big Sky with SUU, but USD waits
The day after the UND and SUU commit, USD is offered to the MVFC, as the presidents bend for 1.

Stranger things have happened!!

[Tatanka]

It wouldn't surprise me if . . .

UND commits to the Big Sky with SUU, but USD waits
The day after the UND and SUU commit, USD is offered to the MVFC, as the presidents bend for 1.

Stranger things have happened!!

^^^^^^^^^ This

[EndZoneQB]

It wouldn't surprise me if . . .

UND commits to the Big Sky with SUU, but USD waits
The day after the UND and SUU commit, USD is offered to the MVFC, as the presidents bend for 1.

Stranger things have happened!!

Yep, honestly what I was thinking. Never thought that USD would "wait" but that the MVFC would give them an invite to throw the Summit a bone after they have been in a working relationship since the Summit football "study".

My only thing is this: You know the Summit is thinking about the current MVFC/Summit members wanting to get into being full MVC members. Not sure if theres ANY possibility for that any time soon, but they really need to make sure they have a good relationship with the MVFC IMO.

[Answer Guy]

It wouldn't surprise me if . . .

UND commits to the Big Sky with SUU, but USD waits
The day after the UND and SUU commit, USD is offered to the MVFC, as the presidents bend for 1.

Stranger things have happened!!

Sure is possible. Hard to tell who all is in on the conspiracy until after the fact.

[Leonardite]

I have a hard time believing Missouri State, Indiana State, etc. care at all about the football situation at UND or USD. If you're those schools, why in the world would you rock the MVFC boat? I just can't imagine that happening.

[zooropa]

why in the world would you rock the MVFC boat?

Because you understand that nothing, *nothing*, is permanent or stationary.

USD is in the Valley footprint. It would not inconvenience the conference, nor would it water down a conference that had ISU-Blue, NDSU (sorry, but it's true) and WIU in it last year.

Acting to protect your 'perimeter', as it were, is better than doing nothing and assuming the status quo will hold forever. Adding USD creates a MVC/MVFC/Summit bloc of stability. Leave USD out and both the MVFC and Summit are vulnerable to reduced roles in the future: The MVFC losing its status as an independent conference (which some MVFC members may not mind), the Summit being reduced to another sprawling assemblage of misfits.....

And yes, I do believe USD is that important. I am not sanguine about SDSU's future in the Summit without USD, and thus I am not sanguine about their future in the MVFC.

[Leonardite]

The Gateway has been stable for a long time. Especially in light of WKU's failures and UNI's financial woes, who is going anywhere? Youngstown? Doubt it. Indiana State dropping football? Certainly not. The Gateway schools aren't clamoring for dubious change in the name of "stability." They have methodically controlled that almost since the conference's inception. The "visionary" thoughts of a few Dakota newcomers aren't going to change that.

[zooropa]

The Gateway schools aren't clamoring for dubious change in the name of "stability."

But what happens if the Dakota schools find it untenable to stay in the Summit?

The MVFC as an independent entity is basically dead at that point.

Now some of the MVFC schools may be fine with that, but that is the most probable scenario. Far more probable than the MVC inviting the Dakotas.

----

In an almost completely unrelated matter, I was recently reading up on the Munich Olympics (hadn't ever read a detailed discussion of what happened there). A forensic psychologist predicted the exact hostage scenario that unfolded with only two differences: the time of the attach, and the method of entering the compound. His scenarios were judged extreme and ignored. http://www.time.com/time/europe/magazine/2002/0902/munich/index.html

The Valley needs to table-top their responses to a number of scenarios, and one of them needs to be, 'what happens if the Summit collapses and NDSU and SDSU join the Big Sky for all sports? what could cause the Summit to collapse? how can we prevent the Summit from collapsing to protect OUR interests?'

[NDSUstudent]

Hopefully USD waits it out and gets into the MVFC eventually. I thought it was fun playing them in football this year and I've never had one issue with Yotes.

UND on the other hand can whither and die on their own Big Sky island for all I care.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_se0PrlI5KU8/Sj9MQbowHpI/AAAAAAAAAC4/uo_BStEvYlc/s320/Hannibal+I+Love+It+When+a+Plan+Comes+Together+A-Team_small.gif

[zooropa]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_se0PrlI5KU8/Sj9MQbowHpI/AAAAAAAAAC4/uo_BStEvYlc/s320/Hannibal+I+Love+It+When+a+Plan+Comes+Together+A-Team_small.gif

I'm just happy to see a victory for common sense.

And for organizations that do things the right way (Summit with Douple as commish, and USD).

[NDSUstudent]

Fulerton also looks like the same old used car salesman we always knew he was.

[JackJD]

Fulerton also looks like the same old used car salesman we always knew he was.

NDSUstudent -- I think you're right. You have to wonder about Fullerton. Here is a summary of the events of the past few days put together from a combination of sources without being personally on the inside. I posted essentially the same on USD's board. All things considered, USD's administration deserves a pat on the back for doing some due diligence and carefully considering what was best for USD.

By Monday, USD joining the Big Sky was a done deal. USD was planning a press conference for Thursday or Friday of this week. The paperwork hadn’t been signed but it was in Pres. Abbot’s office, ready to be signed.

There were still a couple of nagging issues. First was whether Montana and Montana State would stay in the Big Sky. That seemed to be put to bed last week when Big Sky Commissioner Fullerton basically told everyone that Montana and Montana State were staying. Turns out that was an overstatement. We know now that Fullerton was interviewed early this week and he said his statements were more "hopeful" than factual. Source: go to Terry Vandrovec's twitter page and see his link to the interview. Fullerton was back-tracking.

By Tuesday, the MVFC coaches went to bat for inclusion of USD...the MVFC Athletic Directors joined in.

By today, the MVFC Presidents agreed and the offer was made to USD to join the MVFC starting with the 2012 season. Also today USD's administration had information from Montana which indicated Montana staying in the Big Sky was not set in stone. So that uncertainty that Fullerton tried to spin away last week, remained.

I think it's accepted as fact that travel costs for USD will be less in a Summit / MVFC combination compared to the Big Sky. Throw into the mix the time zone issues etc. and I think the decision became an easy one: by late today the MVFC offer was accepted.

Perhaps more detail will be provided at tomorrow's press conference. I think this is a great decision by USD and obviously the coaches, athletic directors and Presidents of the MVFC institutions think it is good for the conference members.

Read more: http://usdcoyotesports.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=gwc&action=display&thread=100&page=2#ixzz14Hvdyg6O -- includes links to the Argus Leader and Yankton Press & Dakotan websites with the story.

[WYOBISONMAN]

Fulerton also looks like the same old used car salesman we always knew he was.

Yes, that idiot has egg all over his face......LMAO!

[JackJD]

It wouldn't surprise me if . . .

UND commits to the Big Sky with SUU, but USD waits
The day after the UND and SUU commit, USD is offered to the MVFC, as the presidents bend for 1.

Stranger things have happened!!

Herd: if I send you $100, you keep $99 and buy me one, $1.00 Powerball ticket. Deal?

[zooropa]

Fulerton also looks like the same old used car salesman we always knew he was.

Yeah, I can just see him strolling up to Sayler:



ACT 1
Scene 1
a conference dealership

DOUG FULLERTON is standing near a large Big Sky Conference logo. DAVID SAYLER enters right, appears to be looking at a Missouri Valley Conference logo. Sees price tag, whistles and wanders off. FULLERTON approaches:

DOUG FULLERTON: Hey, what's it going to take to get you into a brand new conference today?

SAYLER (hesitating): Well, I dunno, I'm upside down on my current conference

FULLERTON: Oh, that's not a problem. This new conference will make money. You'll pay off your old conference in no time. By the way, I'm pretty sure we can get football included in this conference, and you look like a guy that likes football.

DAVID SAYLER: That's true but---

FULLERTON (interrupting): I knew it. I can always tell a guy who likes football. Listen. Let me get you some coffee, have a seat right over there, and I'll go get my manager.

SAYLER: Well, my old conference is a lot cheaper to operate.

FULLERTON (growing slightly annoyed): Look, I just told you, this conference actually makes money. Why one guy I know makes $145k per year with this conference. You do want to make money with your conference, right?

SAYLER (still more hesitant): Yes, but, errrm, well, I don't know. I know I'm not ready to buy today.

FULLERTON (realizes he's lost this round, tries to leave a good impression but overdoes it): Okay. I understand. (winks in exaggerated fashion) Probably have to check with the wife, eh? Here's my card. Give me your number and we'll be in touch

(they exchange cards).


Scene 2
a sales office:

SALES MGR: You look pleased with yourself, Fullerton.

FULLERTON: I just made a sale! My third this month!!

TOM DOUPLE: Who?

FULLERTON: David Sayler

(ominous music)
.....

I call it "Death of a Commissioner" or "The Commissioner Who Drew Against Commission"

[Bisonguy]

Yeah, I can just see him strolling up to Sayler:



I call it "Death of a Commissioner" or "The Commissioner Who Drew Against Commission"


The funny thing is that someone else paid good money for that hoopty!!

[zooropa]

The funny thing is that someone else paid good money for that hoopty!!

It was all they could afford :D Summit buy-in is $50k higher than BSC.

[Bisonguy]

It was all they could afford :D Summit buy-in is $50k higher than BSC.


http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/MargaretCho.jpg

[BraxtonT]

What a night of good reading on Bisonville!! This is the best soap opera going on in the country right now. My recap and prognostications of recent and future events:

UND accepts invite to Big Sky----> Smart move on UND's part
Big Sky inviting UND without a 100% guarantee from USD---> Big Sky Major Fail
UND's marriage to the Big Sky: Both parties want an annulment, but....
....UND (I hate to say it) could be in a "position of power" (Ouch, that hurt).

"POP" for UND? Yes, they can grovel their way back into the Summit League's good graces by taking their 20 lashes and apologizing profusely for spurning the SL. Money does the talking in conference affilitations, so the Summit may accept the apology and bring them in. UND did at least have the decency to cancel the site visit and save some of the SL's site visit team from wasting their time traveling to Grand Forks. A 10 team Summit would make for much easier scheduling than a 9 team Summit.

UND could tell the Big Sky that they'll be happy to leave the conference in all sports, but FOOTBALL, the only sport where travel partners is not an issue. The Big Sky should jump at this chance and admit they screwed up royally by taking in UND without USD. It's not a secret, the Big Sky committed a much bigger blunder than UND. UND needed a conference with football and they took the offer. They could be an affiliate just like UC Davis & Cal Poly.

If Kelley and Faison pull this off, they will look like geniuses.

Bison fans would get something out of this, too. UND would be in our league in everything, except for football. The Bison are scheduling games in all other sports as OOC now, so it'll give GT different options for OOC scheduling. With the way things have been playing out, everyone in the Summit League will hate UND when they come visit. The fans of other SL teams surely aren't going to forgot all of the "Summit League Sucks"- type comments.

Tune in tomorrow, it should be another glorious day in the soap opera that is the Summit/ MVFC vs. Big Sky battle.

[Bison"FANatic"]

I have thought the same thing the big sky has to be calling and asking if they want to just be a football member with no travel partner even in the same time zone they have to be kicking themselves. I would love to hear the call between faison and Douple. Dang this couldn't get more entertaining,

[Grizzled]

I have thought the same thing the big sky has to be calling and asking if they want to just be a football member with no travel partner even in the same time zone they have to be kicking themselves. I would love to hear the call between faison and Douple. Dang this couldn't get more entertaining,

Haha. Your not kidding.

I have to admit, yesterday I posted a few times about the Summit getting more aggressive and they, along with the MVFC did just that. Congrats to USD.

[PierreYote]

You do realize that UND is still in the WCHA where they get to be with their peer schools of Minnesota and Wisconsin..........oh wait.......nevermind.

[IzzyFlexion]

Can someone please get Ken Burns on the phone and have him put a documentery together about this whole story. I just cannot read all 19 of these threads and even pretend to get anything done.
O.K. TAB.....you may proceed to poke fun at my Attention Deficit Disorder, my fourth grade reading level, and my 39 IQ.:(

[cbline]

Damn, and I thought that I could put away my popcorn popper after sitting back and watching the nickname fiasco!! Time to crank up the Orville Redenbacher again!!

[NDSU_grad]

It wouldn't surprise me if . . .

UND commits to the Big Sky with SUU, but USD waits
The day after the UND and SUU commit, USD is offered to the MVFC, as the presidents bend for 1.

Stranger things have happened!![QUOTE]
[QUOTE=JackJD;423077]Herd: if I send you $100, you keep $99 and buy me one, $1.00 Powerball ticket. Deal?

Oh, come on. He wasn't even close to right. USD wasn't offerred until two days after the Big Sky announcement.

[The_Sicatoka]

... My recap and prognostications of recent and future events:

UND accepts invite to Big Sky----> Smart move on UND's part

Big Sky inviting UND without a 100% guarantee from USD---> Big Sky Major Fail

"POP" for UND? ... Money does the talking in conference affilitations, so the Summit may accept the apology and bring them in. UND did at least have the decency to cancel the site visit and save some of the SL's site visit team from wasting their time traveling to Grand Forks. A 10 team Summit would make for much easier scheduling than a 9 team Summit.

UND could tell the Big Sky that they'll be happy to leave the conference in all sports, but FOOTBALL, the only sport where travel partners is not an issue. The Big Sky should jump at this chance and admit they screwed up royally by taking in UND without USD. It's not a secret, the Big Sky committed a much bigger blunder than UND. UND needed a conference with football and they took the offer. They could be an affiliate just like UC Davis & Cal Poly.

If Kelley and Faison pull this off, they will look like geniuses.


Careful. If you keep saying things like that (things that could be remotely interpreted as "kind" toward UND) some around here will remove your Bison tattoo with a steel brush.

[BraxtonT]

Careful. If you keep saying things like that (things that could be remotely interpreted as "kind" toward UND) some around here will remove your Bison tattoo with a steel brush.

I'm willing to risk it. Besides, I'd like to see UND get into the Summit League. Conference games are more exciting than OOC games. The games will be played, anyway, so why not have it mean something.

As for football, they will likely schedule the game a few times in the future, too.