How bout those Twins?? ammmi right?

[ThunderDan]

yeah...

its pretty tough to give up 59 runs in 7 games...good thing they aren't stumbling right before the playoffs though, because that would be.....oh wait....
Well, its not like if they played .500 ball they could have locked up home field through the ALCS or anythi........oh wait again.
Well, at least their best power hitter hasn't been out over 3 months with something like a concussion in a non-contact game because that would be silly and......oh wait
well, at least they are guranteed 2 home games for the playoffs. Good for them.

[lakesbison]

Ill be there next wed!

[TheBisonator]

I think the Twins have completely phoned it in. It's like the car immediately stopped in the middle of the freeway after the Cleveland series.

[ThunderDan]

I think Gardenhire is about to lose his shit....guy has to be having panic attacks on a daily basis just thinking about being one and done again in the playoffs

[NDSUstudent]

These games are absolutely meaningless and honestly they have been approached that way. It is all about getting healthy and keeping guys healthy.

As for Morneau, he has a serious injury. A similar injury ended the career of a Bison basketball player a few years ago, it is a tough deal and not something you can play through.

[TheBisonator]

I think Gardenhire is about to lose his shit....guy has to be having panic attacks on a daily basis just thinking about being one and done again in the playoffs

Twins will get Donefor Disease if they play the Yankees in the first round. Cause they'll be done for.

[bri-dog]

Since my Rockies are done for the year, rooting solely for the Twins now. I thought it would be good for them having to fight for home-field advantage. Hasn't turned out that way so far...

[Wally]

These games are absolutely meaningless and honestly they have been approached that way. It is all about getting healthy and keeping guys healthy.

As for Morneau, he has a serious injury. A similar injury ended the career of a Bison basketball player a few years ago, it is a tough deal and not something you can play through.

The opposing batters are getting healthy on Twins pitching:banghead:

[ThunderDan]

These games are absolutely meaningless and honestly they have been approached that way. It is all about getting healthy and keeping guys healthy.


lol, yea, home field advantage through the ALCS would be pretty meaningless....ok

[NDSUstudent]

lol, yea, home field advantage through the ALCS would be pretty meaningless....ok

Resting Mauer, Thome, the bullpen and squaring away the rotation is much more meaningful than getting one more home game.

[gotts]

Resting Mauer, Thome, the bullpen and squaring away the rotation is much more meaningful than getting one more home game.

QFA

Everyone just needs to step back from the ledge, once the playoffs start it's a whole new season!

[ndsubison1]

yeah...

its pretty tough to give up 59 runs in 7 games...good thing they aren't stumbling right before the playoffs though, because that would be.....oh wait....
Well, its not like if they played .500 ball they could have locked up home field through the ALCS or anythi........oh wait again.
Well, at least their best power hitter hasn't been out over 3 months with something like a concussion in a non-contact game because that would be silly and......oh wait
well, at least they are guranteed 2 home games for the playoffs. Good for them.

Make that at least 3 home games

[onbison09]

Go Rangers! :D (We're one and down too probably)

[sambini]

Lets Go Twins+++++

[ThunderDan]

Make that at least 3 home games

Last time i checked the first round was 5 games....if you get swept by the yankees, you only get 2 home games.

[ndsubison1]

Last time i checked the first round was 5 games....if you get swept by the yankees, you only get 2 home games.

WHoops. Brain fart by me

[bisonmike2]

Twins just ruled out Morneau for the entire post season. It's probably a good thing, it's not like he could be expected to come in and hit .400 against playoff quality pitching.

[gotts]

Twins just ruled out Morneau for the entire post season. It's probably a good thing, it's not like he could be expected to come in and hit .400 against playoff quality pitching.

http://aarongleeman.com/2010/10/04/getting-to-know-the-enemy-bring-on-the-yankees-again/

Good preview of the opponent.

AG is usually a very good read for Twins-related stuff.

Twins up to a +156 dog for the series now.

[ndsubison1]

i see the twins splitting at target. but i just dont see them winning at yankee stadium. yankees in 4

[gotts]

i see the twins splitting at target. but i just dont see them winning at yankee stadium. yankees in 4

If CC goes short rest, the Yankees have a great shot at game 4, but I'm not totally sold that they automatically have game 3 in the bag since it's at Yankee Stadium.

[ndsubison1]

2-for-1's at Chubs during the ALDS!!!

[bisonaudit]

http://aarongleeman.com/2010/10/04/getting-to-know-the-enemy-bring-on-the-yankees-again/

Twins up to a +156 dog for the series now.

That's crazy. That's a Texas sized line.

[gotts]

That's crazy. That's a Texas sized line.

It's only getting worse, I guess people are liking that action on the Yankees!

+164 as of 2:20 PM CDT

No confidence from many bettors for the Twins to get it done!

Linky (http://www.pinnaclesports.com/ContestCategory/2010+MLB+Playoff+Series/Lines.aspx)

EDIT: Bodog has them at +160, BetUS at +155

[bisonaudit]

Odds of the Twins making the World Series just increased. Tex def TB 5-1.

[sambini]

Lets Go Twins++++

[mango]

A heartbreaking loss again. Hopefully the stache can get it done tomorrow and even the series heading to New York

[ThunderDan]

I think it's pretty clear by now, that the yankees own the twins. You can't dribble piss down your leg much worse than the twins do in the postseason against the yankees. Would take a miracle of Gene Larkin proportions to save them now.

[MNLonghorn10]

of course..5 ft to the right teixeras homer is foul.

[lakesbison]

10 straight post season losses . Gardy has to go!!!

Just a crap game. 2 good hits all night. Cuddys hr and mauers single

Ps I.miss the dome, at least it was always loud and crazy in the dome!!!!

Pss. After twins went up 3-0 2 helicopters came out and.circled the stadium the rest of the game, what the hell!! I blame it on them!!

[ThunderDan]

of course..5 ft to the right teixeras homer is foul.

I'm not sure what your getting at....300 feet farther and Joe Mauer has a homerun....????? whats your point?

[ndsubison1]

i hate the twins offensive play calling. fire vi... wait :offtopic:

[MNLonghorn10]

I'm not sure what your getting at....300 feet farther and Joe Mauer has a homerun....????? whats your point?

when girardi and tex are yellin stay fair stay fair..you know the balls hugging the foul line...

[bisonmike2]

watching the Twins play the Yankees is like watching NDSU play a MVFC team.

[Green-N-Gold]

I'm not sure what your getting at....300 feet farther and Joe Mauer has a homerun....????? whats your point?

it's called Minnesota Wide Right (or was it left?) Syndrome. :)

[bisonmike2]

at least they're fans/media are gracious in victory.

http://webmedia.newseum.org/newseum-multimedia/dfp/jpg7/lg/NY_DN.jpg

[Civil06]

at least they're fans/media are gracious in victory.

http://webmedia.newseum.org/newseum-multimedia/dfp/jpg7/lg/NY_DN.jpg

You will never find anything gracious in anything east of western Pennsylvania.

I have a lot of friends out there and enjoy visiting, but the culture just isn't my cup o' tea. Though, the headlines are hilarious. Oh yeah, and I hate the dirty yankees. I googled typical yankee fans and found this:

http://yesitsabsurd.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/yankee_fan-739206.jpg

Exactly what I hoped to find.

[WYOBISONMAN]

Whip????? Another reason to hate the Yankees and all things New York!

[ndsubison1]

twins are screwed

[Tatanka]

twins are done

fixed .

[MinotBison]

twins are screwed

The fat lady, she be warmin' up.

[ThunderDan]

Why hate on the new york media for not being gracious? How about worrying about the Twins growing a pair and playing big boy ball for once. The media would have nothing to be cocky about if the Twins didn't choke year after year.

[Tatanka]

The fat lady, she be warmin' up.

Whoa. Wait a second... DjKyRo got a date? :D

[WYOBISONMAN]

I would have liked to seen Gardy haul off and punch that shit Ump.

[lakesbison]

WYO SUCH LANGUAGE!

twins sitting in 10th tied 3-3 bats were kinda coming alive tonight, freakin mauer had a chance to win it.

[lakesbison]

kubel thought it was a HR... but right fielder dropped it.. bases loaded 1 oout..hhaha

maybe both my teams will win in bottom of 9th! (or 10th)

[lakesbison]

DANNY VALENCIA MY MAN.. i called that shit!!

twins win in 10th

[stevdock]

DANNY VALENCIA MY MAN.. i called that shit!!

twins win in 10th

Way to go out on a limb there. Tejada looked horrible and it was only a matter of time. Let's just hope that this win springboards this team towards good things the rest of the season.

[bisonmike2]

Way to go out on a limb there. Tejada looked horrible and it was only a matter of time. Let's just hope that this win springboards this team towards good things the rest of the season.

Doesn't look so good after seeing Liriano give up 6 to the royals. If anyone still interested in him? He's looked horrible in every start this year.

[spelunker64]

Getting pushed around today...blah

[coldspot]

Getting pushed around today...blah

why did they pick up dusty hughes? bring up gibson already please and trade liriano before his arm blows up again.

[aces1180]

Seriously? Mauer is sitting out a second game in a row? I'm so glad he is worth that $23 million a year to ride the pine.

http://www.startribune.com/sports/blogs/119867464.html

[mango]

Seriously? Mauer is sitting out a second game in a row? I'm so glad he is worth that $23 million a year to ride the pine.

http://www.startribune.com/sports/blogs/119867464.html

WTF??

I understand giving him the day off when if they play in the afternoon after a night game, but there is no reason for him to be out two days in a row. If you don't have him behind the plate, DH him. I'm fine with that.

[CAS4127]

WTF??

I understand giving him the day off when if they play in the afternoon after a night game, but there is no reason for him to be out two days in a row. If you don't have him behind the plate, DH him. I'm fine with that.

I guessing teh Twins ain't telling us everything about how that knee surgery actually went and how the knee is actually feeling. Or, maybe Gardy is benching him just to light a fire under his bubble butt!

[bisonaudit]

The whole play Mauer or not thing is really a win/win for you guys.

When he's in the lineup and doesn't have a 5 RBI night you can rip him and when he's not in the lineup you can rip Gardy.

I just don't get the Mauer centric haters. If I was going to hate on something I'd go with the terrible defense they've been playing and the persistent lack of infield depth.

[aces1180]

The whole play Mauer or not thing is really a win/win for you guys.

When he's in the lineup and doesn't have a 5 RBI night you can rip him and when he's not in the lineup you can rip Gardy.

I just don't get the Mauer centric haters. If I was going to hate on something I'd go with the terrible defense they've been playing and the persistent lack of infield depth.

I don't hate Mauer...I just don't know why he is not in the lineup for two days in a row, unless they are hiding an injury or something.

Update - Gardy says he is 'sore.'

http://www.startribune.com/sports/twins/blogs/119871624.html

Sounds like a case of vaginosis to me...

[bisonaudit]

I don't hate Mauer...I just don't know why he is not in the lineup for two days in a row, unless they are hiding an injury or something.

Update - Gardy says he is 'sore.'

http://www.startribune.com/sports/twins/blogs/119871624.html

Sounds like a case of vaginosis to me...

I'm not sure how not hating Mauer and accusing him of having vaginosis go together.

I'm also not sure how a diagnosis of vaginosis, which I don't doubt for a second that you're qualified to issue, squares with the fact that Mauer has more plate appearance over the last three seasons than any Catcher in baseball.

It could be that Gardy isn't saying anything because the last time he spoke out of turn about Mauer's health, Joe publicly expressed his displeasure.

[runtheoption]

I think they need to immediately consider Mauer for 3rd base, left or right field. He is a great defensive catcher, but if the catching is so hard on his knee that it takes him out of the lineup once or twice a week, then it is time for a change. Gardy wants him to catch, Mauer wants to catch, the pitchers probably all want him to catch, but I think the organization as a whole and the fan base demand that Mauer be an everyday player. If he has bad knee, he is not ever going to drive through the ball the way we have seen in the past. The opposite field power will never return.

He could take over 3rd with the way Valencia's offense is lately, but that takes out a right handed bat from the lineup. He could play left field and force Young and Kubel to platoon in right field. It takes time to learn these new positions, but I think a move is needed.

[bisonaudit]

I think they need to immediately consider Mauer for 3rd base, left or right field. He is a great defensive catcher, but if the catching is so hard on his knee that it takes him out of the lineup once or twice a week, then it is time for a change. Gardy wants him to catch, Mauer wants to catch, the pitchers probably all want him to catch, but I think the organization as a whole and the fan base demand that Mauer be an everyday player. If he has bad knee, he is not ever going to drive through the ball the way we have seen in the past. The opposite field power will never return.

He could take over 3rd with the way Valencia's offense is lately, but that takes out a right handed bat from the lineup. He could play left field and force Young and Kubel to platoon in right field. It takes time to learn these new positions, but I think a move is needed.

They don't have another viable option at catcher, and a lot of his value is caught up in the fact that he is a catcher, because almost no one is capable of playing that position defensively, let alone at the level he does, while providing the offense that he can. The knee is a concern long-term but I don't see any evidence that its a career shortening skill imparing injury like Tony O back in the day. Abscent some additional evidence it's way way to early to move him out from behind the plate.

[aces1180]

I'm not sure how not hating Mauer and accusing him of having vaginosis go together.

I'm also not sure how a diagnosis of vaginosis, which I don't doubt for a second that you're qualified to issue, squares with the fact that Mauer has more plate appearance over the last three seasons than any Catcher in baseball.

It could be the Gardy isn't saying anything because the last time he spoke out of school about Mauer's health, Joe publicly expressed his displeasure.

Sorry, but you don't see the other players making over $20 million a year sitting out due to "soreness."

Like I said, I like Mauer...I just don't think he is earning his money right now.

[bisonaudit]

Sorry, but you don't see the other players making over $20 million a year sitting out due to "soreness."

Like I said, I like Mauer...I just don't think he is earning his money right now.

Think what you want but I'll never understand it. And don't pretend it's about the money. This garbage was going on before he was making $23 million a year and it continues to go on now.

The simple fact is there's no evidence that Joe begs out of games. There's no evidence that Gardy plays him less than he should. And there's no evidence that he's fragile.

I don't understand what some people want from Joe Mauer. Every summer it's like I'm watching "The Life of Brian" recast with even less appropriate accents.

[coldspot]

blow nathan :facepalm:

fat capps is in to close it in the 10th though.

[aces1180]

blow nathan :facepalm:

fat capps is in to close it in the 10th though.

I like to call him Crapps...

[aces1180]

Think what you want but I'll never understand it. And don't pretend it's about the money. This garbage was going on before he was making $23 million a year and it continues to go on now.

The simple fact is there's no evidence that Joe begs out of games. There's no evidence that Gardy plays him less than he should. And there's no evidence that he's fragile.

I don't understand what some people want from Joe Mauer. Every summer it's like I'm watching "The Life of Brian" recast with even less appropriate accents.

I guess I don't understand what's wrong with being critical about a man who makes millions and is the face of the franchise. He should be producing and he is not, which makes him sitting out even more frustrating.

[aces1180]

And Matt Crapps with the loss...

Anybody think Pavano could have gone back out in the 9th? He told Anderson and Gardy 'no' according to FSN.

This team is lacking heart...and it's going to be a long year.

[Wally]

I know its early, but this year just has a weird vibe so far. Thx for playing closers.:facepalm:

[BadlandsBison]

I know its early, but this year just has a weird vibe so far. Thx for playing closers.:facepalm:

You just get that "bad feeling" so far. No power in the lineup, no good starting pitching...

[mango]

And now Mauer is on the DL.... this season blows

[aces1180]

And now Mauer is on the DL.... this season blows

Wow.........

Bi-lateral leg weakness....What the F is that?

[bisonaudit]

I guess I don't understand what's wrong with being critical about a man who makes millions and is the face of the franchise. He should be producing and he is not, which makes him sitting out even more frustrating.

Apparently winning more batting titles than any Catcher in the history of the game (3), 4x all-star, 3x gold gloves, 4x silver sluggers, and an MVP isn't enough production for some.

"All right! I am the Messiah! Now, bugger off!"

[aces1180]

Apparently winning more batting titles than any Catcher in the history of the game (3), 4x all-star, 3x gold gloves, 4x silver sluggers, and an MVP isn't enough production for some.

"All right! I am the Messiah! Now, bugger off!"

Sorry, but its not enough...You don't think its fair to expect more from a guy who makes the fifth most money in all of baseball?

Are you related to him or something? I guess I don't get why you are satisfied with him being just above-average.

Like I said, I love Joe Mauer and am glad he is a Twin..However, I expect him to play the game at a higher level.

[mango]

Wow.........

Bi-lateral leg weakness....What the F is that?

Sounds like he has some sand in his vag

[coldspot]

Wow.........

Bi-lateral leg weakness....What the F is that?

I believe its a fatigue related condition caused by nerve damage. since its bilateral (both legs) it's probably spine related. don't quote me on any of that, I didn't pay much attention to that in anatomy class

[aces1180]

I believe its a fatigue related condition caused by nerve damage. since its bilateral (both legs) it's probably spine related. don't quote me on any of that, I didn't pay much attention to that in anatomy class

Yeah, I don't know what the deal is anymore...it's too bad he got hurt in like his third MLB game ever...He hasn't been the same since.

Still is a great player though. His career could be a lot like Mickey Mantle or Tony Olivia...Great players that could have been ever greater without injuries to their legs.

[bisonaudit]

Sorry, but its not enough...You don't think its fair to expect more from a guy who makes the fifth most money in all of baseball?

Are you related to him or something? I guess I don't get why you are satisfied with him being just above-average.

Like I said, I love Joe Mauer and am glad he is a Twin..However, I expect him to play the game at a higher level.

The only guy in the league making more than him is A-Rod so maybe you need to adjust your expectations up if money is going to be the metric. They're paying him a ton of money and the fact is he may not earn it all with his play going forward, but most of those guys never do. I can't imagine what the reaction would have been if they'd have let him go to New York or Boston instead of resigning him.

I know some people get worked up about the money, but through the 2010 season he's earned $133 million with his play and been paid $34 million.

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=1857&position=C

I'm not related to him. Not that that matters. I'm just sick of people who think that they know something about baseball and say they're Twins fans shitting all over their best player.

He's not merely 'above-average.' He's great. In 2008 and 2009 he was the best position player in the American League. I'll repeat it again. No Cather has ever won more than one batting title. Joe has 3 at the age of 27. In 2009 he led the AL in batting, slugging, and on base percentage. The last person to do that was Yaz, 40 years ago. The only others to do it: Frank Robinson, Ted Williams, Jimmie Fox, Lou Gehrig, Babe Ruth, Ty Cobb, George Stone, and Nap Lajoie. None of them were catchers. All but Cobb and Williams were older than Mauer. All of them but Stone are in the hall.

In the last decade, Mauer has the 3 best statistical seasons for a catcher. In 2006 he exceeded the performance of the 2nd best catcher by 52% (Posada), in 2009 93% (VMart), in 2008 112% (Soto).

http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/6302

He's been great.

[lakesbison]

mauer has fizzled since his season of 28 homeruns.

[aces1180]

The only guy in the league making more than him is A-Rod so maybe you need to adjust your expectations up if money is going to be the metric. They're paying him a ton of money and the fact is he may not earn it all with his play going forward, but most of those guys never do. I can't imagine what the reaction would have been if they'd have let him go to New York and Boston instead of resigning him.

I know some people get worked up about the money, but through the 2010 seasons he's earned $133 million with his play and been paid $34 million.

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=1857&position=C

I'm not related to him. Not that that matters. I'm just sick of people who think that they know something about baseball say they're Twins fans shitting all over their best player.

He's not merely 'above-average.' He's great. In 2008 and 2009 he was the best position player in the American League. I'll repeat it again. No Cather has ever won more than one batting title. Joe has 3 at the age of 27. In 2009 he led the AL in batting, slugging, and on base percentage. The last person to do that was Yaz, 40 years ago. The only others to do it: Frank Robinson, Ted Williams, Jimmie Fox, Lou Gehrig, Babe Ruth, Ty Cobb, George Stone, and Nap Lajoie. None of them were catchers. All but Cobb and Williams were older than Mauer. All of them but Stone are in the hall.

In the last decade, Mauer has the 3 best statistical seasons for a catcher. In 2006 he exceeded the performance of the 2nd best catcher by 52% (Posada), in 2009 93% (VMart), in 2008 112% (Soto).

http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/6302

He's been great.

Trust me, I know plenty about baseball...

I've been a huge Twins fan for 25 years and have attended over 200 games, all while living in ND and western Minnesota. Who are you to claim I am not a fan? You don't even know me.

Just because he is from Minnesota and has had some great years doesn't mean he has to be treated with kid gloves. He is not immune to criticism.

BTW - Mauer is #5, not #2.

http://content.usatoday.com/sportsdata/baseball/mlb/salaries/player/top-25

[bisonaudit]

Of course he's not immune from criticism. Neither are you. Neither am I.

I just don't think he deserves much of the criticism that he recieves.

I don't care where he was born. Did I ever mention that once?

I think he's a great player and has a chance to be a historically great player and I just get tired of people who appear not a appreciate what they have.

It's baseball. It's 162 games. We're two weeks in and he's not played up to his own high standard to this point. But we're two weeks into a six month season, given what he's done over the last 5 years, lets not get hysterical about the last 2 weeks.

[runtheoption]

I think they need to immediately consider Mauer for 3rd base, left or right field. He is a great defensive catcher, but if the catching is so hard on his knee that it takes him out of the lineup once or twice a week, then it is time for a change. Gardy wants him to catch, Mauer wants to catch, the pitchers probably all want him to catch, but I think the organization as a whole and the fan base demand that Mauer be an everyday player. If he has bad knee, he is not ever going to drive through the ball the way we have seen in the past. The opposite field power will never return.

He could take over 3rd with the way Valencia's offense is lately, but that takes out a right handed bat from the lineup. He could play left field and force Young and Kubel to platoon in right field. It takes time to learn these new positions, but I think a move is needed.


They don't have another viable option at catcher, and a lot of his value is caught up in the fact that he is a catcher, because almost no one is capable of playing that position defensively, let alone at the level he does, while providing the offense that he can. The knee is a concern long-term but I don't see any evidence that its a career shortening skill imparing injury like Tony O back in the day. Abscent some additional evidence it's way way to early to move him out from behind that plate.

I am not sure how much evidence you need to make the move from catching.

I stand by my earlier comment, even more so now that he is on the 15 day DL. I don't care that he is getting paid huge money, and whether he is earning it or not. I care about putting the Twins in the best position to win a championship

I want Joe's bat in the lineup as much possible more than I want Joe sitting behind the dish calling games. I'll take a healthy Mauer playing 3rd / OF with his bat in the line-up for 140-150 games per year, versus the not-getting any younger, bad legs Mauer insisting on being a catcher for 119.5 games per year (his average # of games per year from 2004-2010).

The Twins have played 12 games, with Joe missing 3 of them. Now he is on the 15 day DL retroactive to April 13, so he could miss 12 more games until he is off the DL. This could turn into a disaster season for Joe if he keeps on catching -- he is not doing his legs any favors by squatting up and down 150 time per game.

[runtheoption]

I think he's a great player and has a chance to be a historically great player and I just get tired of people who appear not a appreciate what they have.



I definetly appreciate what we have with Mauer. He could be one of the greatest hitters ever, but I don't think it will happen if he keeps on catching. Hence, my advocacy for him being in a different position. How many catchers stay productive at the plate past the age of 30?

[aces1180]

Of course he's not immune from criticism. Neither are you. Neither am I.

I just don't think he deserves much of the criticism that he recieves.

I don't care where he was born. Did I ever mention that once?

I think he's a great player and has a chance to be a historically great player and I just get tired of people who appear not a appreciate what they have.

It's baseball. It's 162 games. We're two weeks in and he's not played up to his own high standard to this point. But we're two weeks into a six month season, given what he's done over the last 5 years, lets not get hysterical about the last 2 weeks.

Fair enough...

I was never putting words in your mouth btw...I was just pointing out that a lot of people feel that because he is homegrown, he can't be criticized.

I'll say it one more time, I love Joe Mauer....I'm happy the Twins have him...However, something is not right. Maybe this new diagnosis explains it. I did some research on bi-lateral leg weakness and it could be nothing or it could be something really serious...I hope he comes back and starts ripping liners over the shortstops head.

[bisonmike2]

I know it's a long season but anyone else getting the feeling that the Twins are going to look back in August and say "If we only would have gotten a better start in April we'd be in position to be in the playoffs"?

[bisonaudit]

I did some research on bi-lateral leg weakness and it could be nothing or it could be something really serious...I hope he comes back and starts ripping liners over the shortstops head.

Agreed. The flu like symptions he's battling as well, may or may not be related. And it may or may not be related to his prior back issues which were only temporarily releaved by the kidney procedure and then controlled, apparently more effectively, with whatever they did to resolve the inflamed SI joint.

Some, none, or all of these could be inter-related. This could be very straight forward and amount to nothing or they may need to call in Dr. House to do the differential diagnosis.

[Bison"FANatic"]

:smh: :smh: :smh: :smh: :smh:

What a way to piss it down their leg today

[Wally]

I know it's a long season but anyone else getting the feeling that the Twins are going to look back in August and say "If we only would have gotten a better start in April we'd be in position to be in the playoffs"?

No shit. You can't win anything in April, but you sure can lose everything

[Wally]

Since clinching 2010 AL Central banner which is proudly waving @ Target Field:

3-8 to finish 2010 season
0-3 vs our big brothers in playoffs
4-10 to start 2011, probably 4-11 after Sunday

7-21 by my count...Ouch

[sambini]

They have won two in a row++++

[coldspot]

Jim Hoey: my new favorite Twins pitcher.

[Bison"FANatic"]

Liriano with a no hitter through 8

[Bison"FANatic"]

NO RUNS NO HITS NO ERRORS


Trade him now

[aces1180]

No Hitter! Wow.

[EndZoneQB]

And they still barely score enough to win!

[MN_BISON]

Mediacom sucks balls, game not on because they haven't come to a deal with FSN to pick up the entire season yet. At least ESPN picked up the 9th.

[BadlandsBison]

SRSLY what are we supposed to expect out of the Twins? I quit watching them for a week and they pull off a no hitter lol. They are taunting me.

[bisonmike2]

Best description I heard of the 2 game series with the White Sox.

What the Twins just did is go into a old folks home and break a couple of peoples hips. Lets see what they do against a real team.

[Wally]

Best description I heard of the 2 game series with the White Sox.

What the Twins just did is go into a old folks home and break a couple of peoples hips. Lets see what they do against a real team.

I heard that as well. It was Joe Cowley from the Chicago Sun Times. He used to be the beat writer for the Sox and now is a columnist for the Sun Times. He could get pretty vicious at times.

http://deadspin.com/#!5616047/white-sox-beat-writer-goes-nuts-on-minnesota

I thought this was pretty funny more than anything last year. People around here just went nuts. He actually married a gal from the Cities

[bisonmike2]

This just in....the 2011 Twins suuuuuuck.

[aces1180]

This just in....the 2011 Twins suuuuuuck.

Yep...I wish I would have waited to buy all the tickets I did for this season...Could have saved a fortune!

[Wally]

This just in....the 2011 Twins suuuuuuck.

1. Cleve 23 11 .676 - 14-2 9-9 170 121 +49 Won 1 7-3

30.Minn 12 23 .343 11.5 4-8 8-15 113 187 -74 Lost 5 3-7

This team is an embarrassment. I'm sick of the injuries. It's not like everyone is breaking legs outside Nishioka. The team is soft and always has been. The pitchers are a whole other story. No injuries to them other than Slowey. I'm sick of the pitchers blowing goats.

They are impossible to watch and I am glad to have 3 hours most evenings to rearrange my sock drawer.

From the top down, it is a disaster. Bill Smith has been a disaster and Terry Ryan's guys are slowly but surely disappearing.

1. Got nothing for Torii Hunter
2. Got basically nothing for Johan Santana. Received Phil Humber, Carlos Gomez, Kevin Mulvey, Deolis Guerra. Said no to Jon Lester, Justin Masterson, Coco Crisp and Jew Lowrie from Boston. Said no to a decent Yankees package as well.
3. Got Delmon, Jason Pridie, Brendan Harris for Matt Garza, Jason Bartlett and Eduardo Morlan. Gave away a power pitcher and above avg everyday SS for a guy with tons of untapped talent and an attitude. Have tried to find a SS since.


He's had some decent fill in the holes type trades like Jon Rauch, Orlando Cabrera, JJ Hardy, etc.

His job needs to be on the line.

[roadwarrior]

Ticket prices might be affordable in July-August. Might even have money left for a $7 beer or two.

[sambini]

Lose again today to Detroit 8 to 7..

[roadwarrior]

Twins were 16.5 games out of first place about a week and a half ago. Now they are 9 games out.

Is there hope?

[gotts]

Twins were 16.5 games out of first place about a week and a half ago. Now they are 9 games out.

Is there hope?

There's always hope, it's the AL Central after all.

[coldspot]

There's always hope, it's the AL Central after all.

the division winner could be under .500 (your AL central champs, with a record of 80-82, the Minnesota Twins!)

[bisonaudit]

the division winner could be under .500 (your AL central champs, with a record of 80-82, the Minnesota Twins!)

Certainly not impossible, but 47% of the games are in division so it's not very likely.

The boys at baseball prospectus put the Twins playoff chances at 1.5% last week and have them at 2.6% today.

[CAS4127]

To get to 80+ wins andmake PO's, wouldn't they have to win 60-70 percent of their remaining games?? Don't see that happening

[bisonmike2]

It doesn't matter anyway. The only way the Twins are going to win a World Series is if they get to play KC in the ALDS, Cleveland in the ALCS and the Whitesox in the World Series.

[EndZoneQB]

To get to 80+ wins andmake PO's, wouldn't they have to win 60-70 percent of their remaining games?? Don't see that happening

To get to 88 wins they supposedly have to play .640 ball the rest of the way. Very possible, but it's going to require the starters to continue pitching the same way.

[bisonaudit]

To get to 88 wins they supposedly have to play .640 ball the rest of the way. Very possible, but it's going to require the starters to continue pitching the same way.

Ummmmmm....

.640 ball is 104 wins for a full season. That is not "very possible". It isn't impossible. I'm going with highly unlikely.

[CAS4127]

Ummmmmm....

.640 ball is 104 wins for a full season. That is not "very possible". It isn't impossible. I'm going with highly unlikely.

They'd have to win 62 out of 97 remaining games to get to 88 wins. Highly unlikely, and my bet is that it will take at least 88 games to win the division.

[bisonaudit]

They'd have to win 62 out of 97 remaining games to get to 88 wins. Highly unlikely, and my bet is that it will take at least 88 games to win the division.

I agree entirely.

[HerdBot]

Twins were 16.5 games out of first place about a week and a half ago. Now they are 9 games out.

Is there hope?

I would have to say highly unlikely but if they can get to the allstar break within 6 games I'll say possible but unlikely.

There are simply too many "what if's." We need too many people to get hot at the same time.

All depends on the pitching... if Liriano can give us no hitters into the 8th and the rest of the starters be more consistent AND the bullpen can improve AND if we can get closer that doesn't blow half the saves AND if Mauer can come back and light a fire under everyones ass it's possible. Of course we need the guys to recover from injuries.

Even if we do make the playoffs I don't think we're built to win in the playoffs.

Not very optimistic.

[CAS4127]

I would have to say highly unlikely but if they can get to the allstar break within 6 games I'll say possible but unlikely.

There are simply too many "what if's." We need too many people to get hot at the same time.

All depends on the pitching... if Liriano can give us no hitters into the 8th and the rest of the starters be more consistent AND the bullpen can improve AND if we can get closer that doesn't blow half the saves AND if Mauer can come back and light a fire under everyones ass it's possible. Of course we need the guys to recover from injuries.

Even if we do make the playoffs I don't think we're built to win in the playoffs.

Not very optimistic.

That's a whole nother problem right there, Gabe. Mauer doesn't light a fire under anyone's ass. He is a silent leader. I wish he would have more of an "attitude" myself, as I think his playing demeanor actually subdues the emotions of others in the dugout.

[HerdBot]

That's a whole nother problem right there, Gabe. Mauer doesn't light a fire under anyone's ass. He is a silent leader. I wish he would have more of an "attitude" myself, as I think his playing demeanor actually subdues the emotions of others in the dugout.

Seems like he leads by example and when he plays we win. I think he inspires people to do well because he's so good. For his contract we need more leadership out of him. But at this point Id be happy just to see him play.

We need 2 aces if were going to pull it off. Liriano is too flakey. One game he's untouchable. Next game he walks 9 guys and gets rattled. Who has the potential to be a #2 ace? I don't see anyone. We have a stable of solid but unspectacular pitchers that rely on defense, something we no longer have. And with this lineup, we can't outscore anyone consistently.

We need a Viola/Blyleven/Morris. Last time we bad that was 2006 with Santana and Liriano. We actually won a game against the Yankees that year.

A trade for an ace and everyone getting hot at once is needed.

[gotts]

Seems like he leads by example and when he plays we win. I think he inspires people to do well because he's so good. For his contract we need more leadership out of him. But at this point Id be happy just to see him play.

We need 2 aces if were going to pull it off. Liriano is too flakey. One game he's untouchable. Next game he walks 9 guys and gets rattled. Who has the potential to be a #2 ace? I don't see anyone. We have a stable of solid but unspectacular pitchers that rely on defense, something we no longer have. And with this lineup, we can't outscore anyone consistently.

We need a Viola/Blyleven/Morris. Last time we bad that was 2006 with Santana and Liriano. We actually won a game against the Yankees that year.

A trade for an ace and everyone getting hot at once is needed.

Trade for an ace? 2 aces?

There's about 15, maybe 20 pitchers in the league with ace-type stuff. They're few and far between, so how do you think a team like the Twins would acquire such a pitcher?

Liriano's stuff makes him a borderline #1 pitcher, but in all reality he is a #2 pitcher.

Johan Santana the exception, the Twins have usually gotten things done with a rotation full of mid range #3's to #5 pitchers.

[EndZoneQB]

That's a whole nother problem right there, Gabe. Mauer doesn't light a fire under anyone's ass. He is a silent leader. I wish he would have more of an "attitude" myself, as I think his playing demeanor actually subdues the emotions of others in the dugout.

Plus, there is a concern that he can change the current team dynamic. The "little guys" are rallying around each other and having some fun...I see a "superstar" causing issues.

[HerdBot]

Trade for an ace? 2 aces?

There's about 15, maybe 20 pitchers in the league with ace-type stuff. They're few and far between, so how do you think a team like the Twins would acquire such a pitcher?

Liriano's stuff makes him a borderline #1 pitcher, but in all reality he is a #2 pitcher.

Johan Santana the exception, the Twins have usually gotten things done with a rotation full of mid range #3's to #5 pitchers.

Cliff lee boat was missed last year

[stevdock]

Trade for an ace? 2 aces?

There's about 15, maybe 20 pitchers in the league with ace-type stuff. They're few and far between, so how do you think a team like the Twins would acquire such a pitcher?

Liriano's stuff makes him a borderline #1 pitcher, but in all reality he is a #2 pitcher.

Johan Santana the exception, the Twins have usually gotten things done with a rotation full of mid range #3's to #5 pitchers.

Considering there are only 17 major league starting pitchers with an ERA under 3.00, I would say there are no more than about 8 aces in MLB right now. Consider that and figure out how the heck anyone is going to trade for an ace?? It doesn't happen because nobody has enough to be able to trade for one and then sign them long term. The Twins could have traded for Lee for a couple of months, but wouldn't have ever been able to sign him.

[gotts]

Considering there are only 17 major league starting pitchers with an ERA under 3.00, I would say there are no more than about 8 aces in MLB right now. Consider that and figure out how the heck anyone is going to trade for an ace?? It doesn't happen because nobody has enough to be able to trade for one and then sign them long term. The Twins could have traded for Lee for a couple of months, but wouldn't have ever been able to sign him.

Agree with the thoughts on acquiring an "ace."

Rumor has it the Twins severely lowballed the Mariners on Lee. Would have been interesting to see how that one could have turned out.

[Facts]

Considering there are only 17 major league starting pitchers with an ERA under 3.00, I would say there are no more than about 8 aces in MLB right now. Consider that and figure out how the heck anyone is going to trade for an ace?? It doesn't happen because nobody has enough to be able to trade for one and then sign them long term. The Twins could have traded for Lee for a couple of months, but wouldn't have ever been able to sign him.

ERA can be tainted by one or two bad outings... It's an average and were about 5/12th's done with the season.

Anyways... back to the AL Central. As of today the Twins are 9 games out of first and only 4.5 out of second place! The Central is mediocre... my pick is Detriot... especially if Scherzer figures out how to pitch.

[bisonmike2]

I'm going to my first twins game at target field on Saturday. I'm excited about that. I've been to the stadium before for a charity event but never to a game.

[aces1180]

I'm going to my first twins game at target field on Saturday. I'm excited about that. I've been to the stadium before for a charity event but never to a game.

I'll be there as well with my buddy drinking beer. Where are you sitting? We're in the front row of section 234...I'll be wearing a #11 Twins jersey.

[aces1180]

I hate the Dave St. Peter commercials on the Twins Radio Network pimping UND.

F' him.

[bisonmike2]

I'll be there as well with my buddy drinking beer. Where are you sitting? We're in the front row of section 234...I'll be wearing a #11 Twins jersey.

Sec V
Row 9
In the skyline deck?

It's a family outing for me so no beer...or at least not that much. At $8 a cup I'm not sure I want that many.

[Wally]

Sec V
Row 9
In the skyline deck?

It's a family outing for me so no beer...or at least not that much. At $8 a cup I'm not sure I want that many.

Better get a Kramarczuk brat....they are the best Jerry, the best

[CAS4127]

What's the score of or what was the score of today's game?

[bisonmike2]

What's the score of or what was the score of today's game?

1 - 0 Twins.

Anyone been on the Budweiser Party Deck yet? Is that only available for groups or can you purchase tickets for that?

[BadlandsBison]

What's the score of or what was the score of today's game?

Says twins won 1-0 on mlb.com

[aces1180]

1 - 0 Twins.

Anyone been on the Budweiser Party Deck yet? Is that only available for groups or can you purchase tickets for that?

I think it is for groups and corporate events...I would love to hang out up there. My father-in-law shares season tickets in the Legends Club, so that is pretty cool.

[aces1180]

Better get a Kramarczuk brat....they are the best Jerry, the best

Personally, I like the grilled Twins dogs...Anything that comes off a roller sucks...Though, I have yet to try a Kramarczuk brat and intend to this weekend.

Also, the Walk-A-Taco sucks, but the loaded nachos are awesome. The Juicy Lucy in the Town Hall Bar is just ok.

[bisonmike2]

Personally, I like the grilled Twins dogs...Anything that comes off a roller sucks...Though, I have yet to try a Kramarczuk brat and intend to this weekend.

Also, the Walk-A-Taco sucks, but the loaded nachos are awesome. The Juicy Lucy in the Town Hall Bar is just ok.

Do they take debit card inside target field or do they suck like the target center which is cash only?

[aces1180]

Do they take debit card inside target field or do they suck like the target center which is cash only?

Debit cards welcome everywhere, except with the walking vendors. However, the "servers" in the Legends Club have machines on their belt, lol.

[bisonmike2]

Debit cards welcome everywhere, except with the walking vendors. However, the "servers" in the Legends Club have machines on their belt, lol.

thank god for that. I hated the target center for that because I would also forget to get cash when going to the t-wolves games and then I'd get stuck taking money out of the us bank atms and paying the fee because I don't have a us bank account. Just one more way the t-wolves screwed over the fans.

[bri-dog]

Hopefully the Rockies can keep helping the Twins this weekend. Just beat the Tigers 13-6. Verlander on Sunday, though...

[bisonaudit]

ERA can be tainted by one or two bad outings... It's an average and were about 5/12th's done with the season.

Anyways... back to the AL Central. As of today the Twins are 9 games out of first and only 4.5 out of second place! The Central is mediocre... my pick is Detriot... especially if Scherzer figures out how to pitch.

ERA is a terrible statistic. There's to much noise from things the pitcher can't control. Walk rate, Strike out rate, and ground ball rate are all better indicators of skill than ERA.

[Facts]

ERA is a terrible statistic. There's to much noise from things the pitcher can't control. Walk rate, Strike out rate, and ground ball rate are all better indicators of skill than ERA.

About as terrible as "Win/Loss" record. Why that has any bearing on Cy Young awards is beyond me. Quality starts would be a better measure.

[DjKyRo]

All I know is 14-3 in June. Hell yeah.

[Bison"FANatic"]

They have actually been fun to watch again. It was just to painful early in the year.

[HerdBot]

Wow this is crazy. 8 games out! At this pace we could be back into contention by the all star break or within the 1st week out. 19 games left til break. We could really do some damage with a 12 game homestand following the all star break.

Current 31-39 8 back

3@san fran
3@mil
3 dodgers
3 mil
3 Tampa
4@white sox

44-45

If we can take 2/3 in every series and 3/4 @ tbe sox well be 1 game under 500 by the All star break. The competition is tougher but were red hot right now.

The we take over with some division wins
All these games are at home
4 - KC
4 - cleveland
4 - detroit

By then we could see a healthy Mourneau, Span, Kubel, Nathan, Thome ... crazy shit! It's a tough call whether or not we should sit guys when they are winning. Looks like were back to our winning ways playing Pirrahna ball.

[bisonaudit]

About as terrible as "Win/Loss" record. Why that has any bearing on Cy Young awards is beyond me. Quality starts would be a better measure.

Voters started to come around on this last year, Felix Hernandez, hopefully that trend continues.

[gotts]

FIP FTW

10 char

[bri-dog]

Well, after the Rox beat the Tigers 2 out of 3, they got the first one from the Indians tonight. Hopefully they can help out the Twins by taking at least 2 of 3 from the Tribe, too.

[Hammersmith]

7 batters, 7 hits, 6 runs, 0 outs, still 1st inning.

That's the way to start a game.

edit: make that 8/8
edit2: Pavano ends the streak. Top of the rotation in the 1st with 1 out. Another hit for 2 more runs. 8-0 Twins, 1 out, pitcher pulled.

[aces1180]

7 batters, 7 hits, 6 runs, 0 outs, still 1st inning.

That's the way to start a game.

edit: make that 8/8
edit2: Pavano ends the streak. Top of the rotation in the 1st with 1 out. Another hit for 2 more runs. 8-0 Twins, 1 out, pitcher pulled.

8 runs, 9 hits, 1 SF error and 1 runner left on base...Crazy!

[CAS4127]

Is there a 10 run rule in MLB??!!

[aces1180]

Is there a 10 run rule in MLB??!!

I'm not sure if you are being serious or not, but the answer is no.

[CAS4127]

Not serious--but now I have to say it--on IPHONE!!

[BadlandsBison]

Is there a 10 run rule in MLB??!!

SanFran couldn't buy an out. That was an incredible 1rst inning to watch.

[DjKyRo]

Homer from Casilla! Atta boy.

[Hammerhead]

From the Pioneer Press:

In the stands, a fan arrived just a few minutes after first pitch, looked at the scoreboard and lamented, "It's 6-0 already?" Yes, 6-0 with no outs. Not a good night for tardiness.

[bisonmike2]

Got to work from home yesterday so I got to watch the game. That kid from Dazed and Confused and the Macho Man Randy Savage were too much for the Twins to overcome.

[IzzyFlexion]

Got to work from home yesterday so I got to watch the game. That kid from Dazed and Confused and the Macho Man Randy Savage were too much for the Twins to overcome.

Best ....... Sports ........ Look-a-Like ...... Evarrrrrrrr.

http://thegoldensombrero.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/tim_lincecum_mitch_kramer-300x127.png

[aces1180]

http://www.startribune.com/sports/twins/124575378.html

I really do like Mauer, but I agree 100% with this article...It's pretty sad, actually.

[bisonaudit]

http://www.startribune.com/sports/twins/124575378.html

I really do like Mauer, but I agree 100% with this article...It's pretty sad, actually.

I don't have any idea what's going on in the locker room. If there are issues there than that's obviously a problem.

As for Mauer not playing 1st base. I've got to ask, how much of that is on him and how much of it is on Gardy? Seems like there's more than one person who could or should be called out relative to that issue but I only see one name in the story.

Finally, anyone who sincerely advocates for the indefinate retention of Cuddy while complaining that Mauer is overpaid, has either an under developed baseball IQ or an over developed sense or irony.

[aces1180]

I don't have any idea what's going on in the locker room. If there are issues there than that's obviously a problem.

As for Mauer not playing 1st base. I've got to ask, how much of that is on him and how much of it is on Gardy? Seems like there's more than one person who could or should be called out relative to that issue but I only see one name in the story.

Finally, anyone who sincerely advocates for the indefinate retention of Cuddy while complaining that Mauer is overpaid, has either an under developed baseball IQ or an over developed sense or irony.

Obviously Souhan is hearing/seeing things, which seem to be an issue. The other night, I read a post I think by Joe C. saying Gardy asked Mauer to get his first baseman's mitt ready, but I don't know how much was pressed. It seems like there are problems and I hope they are alleviated soon.

As far as the Cuddy comparison goes, its silly. He's a decent player, but obviously not up to the level of Mauer (when clicking).

[bisonaudit]

As far as the Cuddy comparison goes, its silly. He's a decent player, but obviously not up to the level of Mauer (when clicking).

The problem with Cuddy isn't that he's just a descent player and Mauer is a star. It's that Cuddy is paid like a star while Mauer is paid like a superstar.

An economic arguement can be made justifying overpaying Mauer. That doesn't apply to Cuddy.

[aces1180]

The problem with Cuddy isn't that he's just a descent player and Mauer is a star. It's that Cuddy is paid like a star while Mauer is paid like a superstar.

An economic arguement can be made justifying overpaying Mauer. That doesn't apply to Cuddy.

That makes sense...

[bisonmike2]

Best ....... Sports ........ Look-a-Like ...... Evarrrrrrrr.

http://thegoldensombrero.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/tim_lincecum_mitch_kramer-300x127.png

Wait...lookalike? I just assumed that kid grew up and actually was Tim Lincecum. They should play the clip from Matthew McCaunahay saying "Alright, alright, alright" every time he strikes someone out.

[stevdock]

Obviously Souhan is hearing/seeing things, which seem to be an issue. The other night, I read a post I think by Joe C. saying Gardy asked Mauer to get his first baseman's mitt ready, but I don't know how much was pressed. It seems like there are problems and I hope they are alleviated soon.

As far as the Cuddy comparison goes, its silly. He's a decent player, but obviously not up to the level of Mauer (when clicking).

I might be the only one in the world that thinks this but I wouldn't go that far. When both players have been healthy for the whole year (meaning when both play at least 140 games), Cuddy has either had similar stats to Mauer or exceeded them in every category except for batting average. If Cuddy can drive in more runs with a lower batting average that means Mauer is getting a whole lot of hits with nobody on. Also Cuddy consistently scores more runs than Mauer too. And here's the kicker Cuddy has played 6 different major league positions over his career, Mauer ONE. Mauer is the better player but not by 13 million a year. My opinion Mauer is overpaid and as stated above Cuddy could be underpaid at least compared to Mauer.

[CAS4127]

I might be the only one in the world that thinks this but I wouldn't go that far. When both players have been healthy for the whole year (meaning when both play at least 140 games), Cuddy has either had similar stats to Mauer or exceeded them in every category except for batting average. If Cuddy can drive in more runs with a lower batting average that means Mauer is getting a whole lot of hits with nobody on. Also Cuddy consistently scores more runs than Mauer too. And here's the kicker Cuddy has played 6 different major league positions over his career, Mauer ONE. Mauer is the better player but not by 13 million a year. My opinion Mauer is overpaid and as stated above Cuddy could be underpaid at least compared to Mauer.

The sad thing is that we will likely trade Cuddy if we get to 5 or so games back!!! That would suck, but I would not be surprised if it happens. He is about all we have as far as trade options right now.

[bisonaudit]

The sad thing is that we will likely trade Cuddy if we get to 5 or so games back!!! That would suck, but I would not be surprised if it happens. He is about all we have as far as trade options right now.

If someone wants to take his one win a year and $10 million contract off our hands, the Twins should do it in a minute.

[CAS4127]

If someone wants to take is one win a year and $10 million contract off our hands, the Twins should do it in a minute.

I don't follow!!???

[gotts]

I don't follow!!???

Wins above replacement. Its a math thing, we got it covered for you.

[CAS4127]

Wins above replacement. Its a math thing, we got it covered for you.

Typo's are a math thing now??!!!

[bisonaudit]

I don't follow!!???

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=1534&position=OF#value

See WAR. Wins above replacement. I was a little stingy in my assessment something more than one but less than two is probably more accurate. He's basically a $10 million, 32 year-old, 4th outfielder. A team like the Twins doesn't win that way. The market rate for a win above replacement is around $4.5 million. With the Mauer contract, even on an expanded budget the Twins don't have much room for error. Even if Joe is a perennial all-star he'd have to perform at an unprescidented rate for a catcher in order to earn his pay on the field over the next 8 years. The Twins need to keep doing what they're good at developing wins young and cheap, dealing players before they get to expensive, and taking inexpensive gambles on aging talent.

Baseball players generally reach the peak of their talent at 27 or 28, on average and decline slowly after. Teams generally control a player for 6 years either entirely or via arbitration. So if a player comes up at 23 he's yours for cheap until he's 28. He doesn't get to free agency until, on average he's peaked. Ship him to New York for prospects and let them pay too much for declining production.

[aces1180]

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=1534&position=OF#value

See WAR. Wins above replacement. I was a little stingy in my assessment something more than one but less than two is probably more accurate. He's basically a $10 million, 32 year-old, 4th outfielder. A team like the Twins doesn't win that way. The market rate for a win above replacement is around $4.5 million. With the Mauer contract, even on an expanded budget the Twins don't have much room for error. Even if Joe is a perennial all-star he'd have to perform at an unprescidented rate for a catcher in order to earn his pay on the field over the next 8 years. The Twins need to keep doing what they're good at developing wins young and cheap, dealing players before they get to expensive, and taking inexpensive gambles on aging talent.

Baseball players generally reach the peak of their talent at 27 or 28, on average and decline slowly after. Teams generally control a player for 6 years either entirely or via arbitration. So if a player comes up at 23 he's yours for cheap until he's 28. He doesn't get to free agency until, on average he's peaked. Ship him to New York for prospects and let them pay too much for declining production.

Exactly what happened with Johan Santana...

[CAS4127]

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=1534&position=OF#value

See WAR. Wins above replacement. I was a little stingy in my assessment something more than one but less than two is probably more accurate. He's basically a $10 million, 32 year-old, 4th outfielder. A team like the Twins doesn't win that way. The market rate for a win above replacement is around $4.5 million. With the Mauer contract, even on an expanded budget the Twins don't have much room for error. Even if Joe is a perennial all-star he'd have to perform at an unprescidented rate for a catcher in order to earn his pay on the field over the next 8 years. The Twins need to keep doing what they're good at developing wins young and cheap, dealing players before they get to expensive, and taking inexpensive gambles on aging talent.

Baseball players generally reach the peak of their talent at 27 or 28, on average and decline slowly after. Teams generally control a player for 6 years either entirely or via arbitration. So if a player comes up at 23 he's yours for cheap until he's 28. He doesn't get to free agency until, on average he's peaked. Ship him to New York for prospects and let them pay too much for declining production.

Those are just numbers, and you can't measure "intangibles". Also, he is much, much more than a "4th outfielder". He has played almost every position, and played them damn well IMO!! Oh, and this:


Cuddyer extended his hitting streak to 12 games in Thursday's 2-1 loss at San Francisco, going 3-for-4 with a pair of doubles and RBI.

[gotts]

Those are just numbers, and you can't measure "intangibles". Also, he is much, much more than a "4th outfielder". He has played almost every position, and played them damn well IMO!! Oh, and this:

Sigh...

I bet you love Derek Jeter too, don't you?

[CAS4127]

Sigh...

I bet you love Derek Jeter too, don't you?

Oh, don't give me that "Sigh..." B/S Gotts!!

Also, I wouldn't say I "like" Jeter, but I would take him on my team anytime, even at his current age. He is an effin HOF'er for pete's (not rose) sake!!

Hell, the way you guys throw numbers around, there are all sorts of players in all sorts of sports who would never have even stepped on the field, let alone become HOF'ers. But you know what, they are out there, and they don't fit the "numbers" mold--just saying.


And if Bisonaudit neg reps me again for being, well, you know, the effin gloves are coming off!!!:duel:

[gotts]

Oh, don't give me that "Sigh..." B/S Gotts!!

Also, I wouldn't say I "like" Jeter, but I would take him on my team anytime, even at his current age. He is an effin HOF'er for pete's (not rose) sake!!

Hell, the way you guys throw numbers around, there are all sorts of players in all sorts of sports who would never have even stepped on the field, let alone become HOF'ers. But you know what, they are out there, and they don't fit the "numbers" mold--just saying.


And if Bisonaudit neg reps me again for being, well, you know, the effin gloves are coming off!!!:duel:

I get where youre coming from, but I'm in the quantifiables camp. Production speaks, all the intangibles in the world don't make up for lack of execution.

To me, Cuddyer is streaky and by way of that, tends to give some people the impression hes better than he actually is, then people overvalue him.

[CAS4127]

I get where youre coming from, but I'm in the quantifiables camp. Production speaks, all the intangibles in the world don't make up for lack of execution.

To me, Cuddyer is streaky and by way of that, tends to give some people the impression hes better than he actually is, then people overvalue him.

That's true, but he is damn good in the field and would be a regular starter for almost any team. He's not for us right now cuz we need him at so many differenct spots given the effin injuries!!

I guess I just like the way the man plays baseball--he is a gamer, and we don't have anyone to replace what he brings to the team IMO.

Cry baby, suck-my-sore-thumb Mauer can about KMA right now!!

[gotts]

That's true, but he is damn good in the field and would be a regular starter for almost any team. He's not for us right now cuz we need him at so many differenct spots given the effin injuries!!

I guess I just like the way the man plays baseball--he is a gamer, and we don't have anyone to replace what he brings to the team IMO.

Cry baby, suck-my-sore-thumb Mauer can about KMA right now!!

So he's the Twins equivalent of Favre sans Danglegate?

[CAS4127]

So he's the Twins equivalent of Favre sans Danglegate?

No, BF only had one or two good years left, Cuddy has more than that!!

Shit, Mauer will probably quit before Cuddy is done!!

[stevdock]

I get where youre coming from, but I'm in the quantifiables camp. Production speaks, all the intangibles in the world don't make up for lack of execution.

To me, Cuddyer is streaky and by way of that, tends to give some people the impression hes better than he actually is, then people overvalue him.

You are right production speaks, and Cuddy outperforms Mauer in every category except Batting Average, while playing 6 positions. While you are absolutely correct that Cuddy is streaky, you have to admit that he is so streaky that he can carry a team during those good streaks. Can Joe do that?? I'm not nor ever have been convinced that he can.

[TbonZach]

If you aren't watching the Twins game and are thinking about switching to it - don't. The Dodgers are leading 12-0 in the top of the 8th.

My reaction to switching to the game at the top of the 7th (11-0):

http://theblogdiet.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/holy_shit.jpg :ranting: :ranting: :mad: :mad:

[HerdBot]

If you aren't watching the Twins game and are thinking about switching to it - don't. The Dodgers are leading 12-0 in the top of the 8th.

My reaction to switching to the game at the top of the 7th (11-0):

http://theblogdiet.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/holy_shit.jpg :ranting: :ranting: :mad: :mad:

Yeah I should have stuck with my gut feeling before the winning streak. This team sucks. Its only a matter of time before crap players go back to earth.

[HooliganBison]

Welcome back to reality Twins fans, you had a nice run.

[bisonaudit]

You are right production speaks, and Cuddy outperforms Mauer in every category except Batting Average, while playing 6 positions. While you are absolutely correct that Cuddy is streaky, you have to admit that he is so streaky that he can carry a team during those good streaks. Can Joe do that?? I'm not nor ever have been convinced that he can.

This is categorically false. Mauer has a higher career OBP (by 60 points) and career SLG (by 25 points) than Cuddyer. You mentioned runs and RBI earlier which are terrible metrics of individual performance (as is batting average BTW). Leaving that aside, you're still wrong. Historically, Mauer both scores and produces more runs in a typical year than Cuddyer. See 162 game averages here:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/mauerjo01.shtml

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/c/cuddymi01.shtml

Defensively, Mauer is a superior Catcher while Cuddyer is average to below average at every position he is capable of playing.

None of this is to say that I don't like Cuddyer or appreciate is contributions. But if you're making a business decision as the Twins must do, its very likey that whatever they need to pay to retain his services will be more than the value they'll receive in return.

Mauer also isn't likely to earn his money back on the field (Johnny Bench didn't perform well enough from age 28 to 35 to earn the money Mauer's getting) but the business decision there wasn't based entriely on on field performance. You can argue about whether that's good or bad but its done and most people seemed happy with it at the time.

The whole Jeter thing and the idea that if "numbers" people had their way some hall of famers would never see the field is just silly. No serious "numbers" person would contend that Jeter isn't a great baseball player, a first ballot hall of famer, they'd only contend that he's somewhat less good in certain areas (defense) than many others think, and that his current performance doesn't justify his current contract.

[CAS4127]

This is categorically false. Mauer has a higher career OBP (by 60 points) and career SLG (by 25 points) than Cuddyer. You mentioned runs and RBI earlier which are terrible metrics of individual performance (as is batting average BTW). Leaving that aside, you're still wrong. Historically, Mauer both scores and produces more runs in a typical year than Cuddyer. See 162 game averages here:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/mauerjo01.shtml

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/c/cuddymi01.shtml

Defensively, Mauer is a superior Catcher while Cuddyer is average to below average at every position he is capable of playing.

None of this is to say that I don't like Cuddyer or appreciate is contributions. But if you're making a business decision as the Twins must do its very likey that whatever they need to pay to retain his services will be more than the value they'll receive in return.

Mauer also isn't likely to earn his money back on the field (Johnny Bench didn't perform well enough from age 28 to 35 to earn the money Mauer's getting) but the business decision there wasn't based entriely on on field performance. You can argue about whether that's good or bad but its done and most people seemed happy with it at the time.

The whole Jeter thing and the idea that if "numbers" people had their way some hall of famers would never see the field is just silly. No serious "numbers" person would contend that Jeter isn't a great baseball player, a first ballot hall of famer, they'd only contend that he's somewhat less good in certain areas (defense) than many others think, and that his current performance doesn't justify his current contract.

You forgot the part about Mauer only playing every other game, but I am sure he is "leading" from the dugout!!

Ya, Jeter doesn't have any golden gloves, does he? I know, his "critics" don't think he deserves them, but very rarely do his errors come at a critical time in a game. In fact, that is where he shines.

Also, Cuddy is more of a leader, easily, than Mauer, and it should be the exact opposite.

That all said, I started out talking about "having" to trade Cuddy if we really wanted to get anyone worthwhile--not to compare him to Mauer--as Cuddy has been one of the only relative bright spots for us this year. And, if he is such a shitty defensive player, why does Gardy (a defensive-minded coach), like him so much?

Cuddy should go to All-Star game as Twins rep this year. Again, you can't measure intangibles--no matter how many effin numbers you through into the equation.

GOD AM I GLAD YOU GUYS DIDN'T DECIDE WHETHER JEFF BENTRIM OR STEVE WALKER SHOULD HAVE PLAYED BASED UPON WHAT THEY "LOOKED" LIKE ON PAPER BEFORE GETTING THEIR CHANCE. BISON FOOTBALL HISTORY WOULD LOOK MUCH DIFFERENT!

[bisonaudit]

You forgot the part about Mauer only playing every other game, and constantly being hurt--pretty hard to produce when you ain't playin--just sayin!!

Ya, Jeter doesn't have any golden gloves, does he?

Back to the WAR statistic. It is a counting statistic rather than a rate statistic and therefore incorporates playing time or a lack thereof. Mauer clearly more productive than Cuddyer even with extended stints on the DL.

On the off chance that you don't alread know this and aren't trying to deliberately yank my chain... Gold Gloves are a terrible metric for defensive performance. They're bias toward prior winners and better offensive players (the commonly sited "he didn't hit enough to win a gold glove"). The voters (managers and coaches) don't see enough of all of the players to make informed decisions, many are hopelessly out of touch with improvements in the measurement of defense, and the prevalence of costal bias indicates that they're getting much of their information from ESPN, just like most of the rest of us. As a result getting a gold glove is like a supreme court appointment, it's very hard to get in but once you are it's a lifetime appointment.

Time of game nonsense. Clutchness is not a skill. Loved Steve Walker. Thought he was a Great player. Just argued endlessly with people here about whether or not clutchness existed. Once again Jeter is a great player and I don't think any stat head would tell you different. He and Jeter are great because they're great not because they're clutch. I'd go so far as to say that the entire concept is a debasement of their greatness. They don't just show up "when it counts" they show up all the time whether or not we're paying attention.

I voiced my concerns on the Mauer leadership issue. If he's "losing the club house" that is a big problem.

Gardy may be defensive minded but he doesn't understand what good defense looks like. The Twins make plays consistently on balls that they get to (RZR 7th best under Gardy) but they don't get to enough balls (OOZ 7th worst). It should go without saying that Errors are not a good stat for evaluating defense, as you never make an error on a ball you never get too.

In Gardy's first year, 2002, they led the league in Ultimate Zone Rating (another defensive metric which tries to quantify range, arm, double plays, and errors). Since then, on the same measure, they've been good but not great, finishing 10th best in baseball from 2003 to 2011, with three sub-par seasons (2004, 2008 and 2009).

Denard Span should be the Twins All-Star (Cuddyer would be my second choice).

http://www.fangraphs.com/teams.aspx?pos=all&lg=all&stats=fld&type=1&season=2011&month=0&season1=2002

[CAS4127]

Back to the WAR statistic. It is a counting statistic rather than a rate statistic and therefore incorporates playing time or a lack thereof. Mauer clearly more productive than Cuddyer even with extended stints on the DL.

On the off chance that you don't alread know this and aren't trying to deliberately yank my chain... Gold Gloves are a terrible metric for defensive performance. They're bias toward prior winners and better offensive players (the commonly sited "he didn't hit enough to win a gold glove"). The voters (managers and coaches) don't see enough of all of the players to make informed decisions, many are hopelessly out of touch with improvements in the measurement of defense, and the prevalence of costal bias indicates that they're getting much of their information from ESPN, just like most of the rest of us. As a result getting a gold glove is like a supreme court appointment, it's very hard to get in but once you are it's a lifetime appointment.

I can appreciate the WAR statistic, and that Mauer is clearly more productive when applying that. Again, I only bought up Cuddy relative to the "trade" issue. I would hate to see us lose him. I mean, who else do we have that can play at what I will judge as a higher than average ability at 5-6 different positions. Think if he was a one position and what he then might bring to the table.

I also agree on the GG deal--same kinda holds true for Pro-Bowl or NBA All-Star selections in a way. My thinking is more based on the fact that there are guys on each team that, when it comes down to "nut-cutting" time, you want the ball in their hands or hit to them. It's a confidence thing, and they know it, and their teammates expect it!!

In the end, I will just say that I am very disappointed in Mauer. He was and always has been (from what I can discern) a lead by example kinda guy. Unfortunately, he ain't even doing that as of late. You can look at numbers, but when you compare those to what he is actually doing on the field and for the team, it is difficult to tell he is really doing that much.

Peace out!!!

[TransAmBison]

I just can't get over you need a gold glove to get a supreme court appointment.

[bisonaudit]

I just can't get over you need a gold glove to get a supreme court appointment.

Elena Kagan was a stand out on the Justice Department softball team and Justice Scalia was really quite spry back in the day.

[CAS4127]

Elena Kagan was a stand out on the Justice Department softball team and Justice Scalia was really quite spry back in the day.

Scalia would make a hell of a homeplate Ump. Think of the comebacks he could come up with when a mgr is arguing a call!! Actually, just think of something you know Tranny could never come up with that is funny (there are lots of them) and you would then have something Scalia would likely come up with!!!

[Answer Guy]

I just can't get over you need a gold glove to get a supreme court appointment.

Clarence Thomas just missed out on a Gold Glove by a pube.

[bisonaudit]

Scalia would make a hell of a homeplate Ump. Think of the comebacks he could come up with when a mgr is arguing a call!! Actually, just think of something you know Tranny could never come up with that is funny (there are lots of them) and you would then have something Scalia would likely come up with!!!

He's like baseball umpires in another way a well. He thinks its all about him.

Doesn't say much for umpires when someone like Scalia has enough charm to occasionally pull it off, while the umpires only ever succeed in looking like pompus asses.

[CAS4127]

Clarence Thomas just missed out on a Gold Glove by a pube.

So you are saying you don't need a golden glove to a become Supreme Court Justice but you need a p - - - to??!!! Where is this in the WAR equation/stats??!!!!

[CAS4127]

He's like baseball umpires in another way a well. He thinks its all about him.

Doesn't say much for umpires when someone like Scalia has enough charm to occasionally pull it off, while the umpires only ever succeed in looking like pompus asses.

Scalia or Tranny??!!! I already knew that about Tranny, but not Scalia too!!!!??????:confused: :(

[Answer Guy]

Scalia or Tranny??!!! I already knew that about Tranny, but not Scalia too!!!!??????:confused: :(

Tranny = Supreme

http://i744.photobucket.com/albums/xx89/NDACAnswerGuy/SupremeCourt.jpg

[stevdock]

This is categorically false. Mauer has a higher career OBP (by 60 points) and career SLG (by 25 points) than Cuddyer. You mentioned runs and RBI earlier which are terrible metrics of individual performance (as is batting average BTW). Leaving that aside, you're still wrong. Historically, Mauer both scores and produces more runs in a typical year than Cuddyer. See 162 game averages here:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/mauerjo01.shtml

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/c/cuddymi01.shtml



Those stats that you are using are completely misleading. First off Mauer only has a higher OBP and SLG because of his BA, which I already gave to Mauer over Cuddy. Next, those 162 game averages don't do a good job of proving your case. Cuddy's first 3 years he mainly rode the bench and got jerked all over the field by Gardy and whoever the GM was then. I would throw those three years out. Which is what I did when I was comparing the two as I said to look at the few years where they both played at least 140 games. Those years I think are 2006, 2009, and 2010. And no offense until Mauer grabs a glove or the DH spot consistently on his day off, please don't use the 162 game average. He doesn't deserve to be able to use it.

Your case is interesting but the problem with baseball is sometimes you can't JUST look at the numbers. I'm a numbers guy as I am a math teacher. There's more to it than just numbers. Now do remember that I agree with you that Mauer is a better player but you could make a good argument for Cuddy based on some important numbers and the defensive aspect.

[CAS4127]

See??!! I am not a #s guy, but I just knew something didn't feel right about the ''#S'' bullshit! Reps to u tomorrow STEVD!!!

[ndsubison1]

get ready for epic response from bisonaudit...
http://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/Food/eating-popcorn-03.gif

[NDSUstudent]

Those stats that you are using are completely misleading. First off Mauer only has a higher OBP and SLG because of his BA, which I already gave to Mauer over Cuddy. Next, those 162 game averages don't do a good job of proving your case. Cuddy's first 3 years he mainly rode the bench and got jerked all over the field by Gardy and whoever the GM was then. I would throw those three years out. Which is what I did when I was comparing the two as I said to look at the few years where they both played at least 140 games. Those years I think are 2006, 2009, and 2010. And no offense until Mauer grabs a glove or the DH spot consistently on his day off, please don't use the 162 game average. He doesn't deserve to be able to use it.

Your case is interesting but the problem with baseball is sometimes you can't JUST look at the numbers. I'm a numbers guy as I am a math teacher. There's more to it than just numbers. Now do remember that I agree with you that Mauer is a better player but you could make a good argument for Cuddy based on some important numbers and the defensive aspect.

A good argument that Cuddy is as good as Mauer? No, you can't. Cuddy is at best barely an above average player. Mauer is an elite talent at the position he plays.

Mauer has a higher OBP because of not just his BA but also the number of walks he generates. The man gets on base a ton, his eye at the plate is significantly better than Cuddyer's.

[EndZoneQB]

A good argument that Cuddy is as good as Mauer? No, you can't. Cuddy is at best barely an above average player. Mauer is an elite talent at the position he plays.



You just destroyed your own argument.

[bisonaudit]

You just destroyed your own argument.

No Epic response coming. I've layed out my arguements already. If you don't like the 162 game average stats take the WAR numbers which reflect playing time. Mauer clearly superior to Cuddyer. Neither are likely to earn their money on the field. That last bit makes it both desireable and difficult to trade Cuddyer.

Catcher is the most difficult defensive position on the field. Mauer is at least above average if not elite defensively at his position. Corner outfield and 1st base are the easiest defensive positions on the field. Cuddyer is at best average if not below average defensively at his positions. Saying that Mauer is an elite talent "at his position" enhances rather than destroys any arguement for him.

[BadlandsBison]

Cuddy is a good defender I would say, he puts his best effort forth. Not to mention his arm strength and ability to play 4 positions.

[Facts]

FREE Terry Tiffee!!!

[bisonaudit]

Cuddy is a good defender I would say, he puts his best effort forth. Not to mention his arm strength and ability to play 4 positions.

Who's questioning Cuddyer's effort or his willingness to play anywhere? No one. These are positives. Roster flexibility has some value, especially when managers insist on carrying an ungodly number of pitchers. Never-the-less, the best defensive metrics available, UZR and DRS, both indicate that he is a below average defensive player.

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=1534&position=OF#fielding

[BadlandsBison]

Who's questioning Cuddyer's effort or his willingness to play anywhere? No one. These are positives. Roster flexibility has some value, especially when managers insist on carrying an ungodly number of pitchers. Never-the-less, the best defensive metrics available, UZR and DRS, both indicate that he is a below average defensive player.

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=1534&position=OF#fielding

I'm saying he's not a lazy defender, at least compared to Young. But that's a relative comparison, your stats don't lie. How many years does Cruddy have on his contract?

[CAS4127]

I'm saying he's not a lazy defender, at least compared to Young. But that's a relative comparison, your stats don't lie. How many years does Cruddy have on his contract?

I think this is his last year, perhaps one more.

Just a thought: Perhaps it is that Cuddy plays at least up to if not beyond his potential, whereas Mauer--not so much. That makes it much easier to watch Cuddy then Mauer. Good eye at the plate for Mauer you say??!! How about if he actually hits one of those effin softballs he gets thrown on the first pitch because everybody in the effin stadium knows he ain't gonna swing?!!!

As for Cuddy's defensive stats, which, if any, take into account that no one attempts to stretch against him when in outfield a single into a double, or double into triple, or try's to tag up on a fly ball?? Where are those in the defensive stats?!!

Cuddy will be our All-Star participant this year, mark my words.

[gotts]

I think this is his last year, perhaps one more.

Just a thought: Perhaps it is that Cuddy plays at least up to if not beyond his potential, whereas Mauer--not so much. That makes it much easier to watch Cuddy then Mauer. Good eye at the plate for Mauer you say??!! How about if he actually hits one of those effin softballs he gets thrown on the first pitch because everybody in the effin stadium knows he ain't gonna swing?!!!

As for Cuddy's defensive stats, which, if any, take into account that no one attempts to stretch against him when in outfield a single into a double, or double into triple, or try's to tag up on a fly ball?? Where are those in the defensive stats?!!

Cuddy will be our All-Star participant this year, mark my words.

That's not a very bold statement in a year where most of the Twins all-star candidates have been on the shelf...

[bisonaudit]

I think this is his last year, perhaps one more.

Just a thought: Perhaps it is that Cuddy plays at least up to if not beyond his potential, whereas Mauer--not so much. That makes it much easier to watch Cuddy then Mauer. Good eye at the plate for Mauer you say??!! How about if he actually hits one of those effin softballs he gets thrown on the first pitch because everybody in the effin stadium knows he ain't gonna swing?!!!

As for Cuddy's defensive stats, which, if any, take into account that no one attempts to stretch against him when in outfield a single into a double, or double into triple, or try's to tag up on a fly ball?? Where are those in the defensive stats?!!

Cuddy will be our All-Star participant this year, mark my words.

I've got no answer for you on the subjective notions of living up to potential and how that perception affects a person's enjoyment of a piece of entertainment except to say that may be a viable explanation of Michael Bay's directing career.

The whole Mauer first pitch thing is a game theory question. It's very interesting stuff, way over my head. I suspect that the short answer is that there is no single correct approach and no definitive answers can be had, which makes it even more interesting. I'd lean toward your assessment that he probably takes to many 1st pitches.

There's an arm component to the UZR stat which accounts not only for put outs from the outfield but also an outfielder's ability to prevent runners from advancing extra bases.

You may be right that Cuddyer will represent the Twins but I think that Span would be a better choice, he's clearly been the best player on the club so far this year.

[CAS4127]

I've got no answer for you on the subjective notions of living up to potential and how that perception affects a person's enjoyment of a piece of entertainment except to say that may be a viable explanation of Michael Bay's directing career.

The whole Mauer first pitch thing is a game theory question. It's very interesting stuff, way over my head. I suspect that the short answer is that there is no single correct approach and no definitive answers can be had, which makes it even more interesting. I'd lean toward your assessment that he probably takes to many 1st pitches.

There's an arm component to the UZR stat which accounts not only for put outs from the outfield but also an outfielder's ability to prevent runners from advancing extra bases.

You may be right the Cuddyer will represent the Twins but I think that Span would be a better choice, he's clearly been the best player on the club so far this year.

Probably a toss up, but with Span's concussion, it will go to Cuddy I would think.

Good discussion by all here btw!!!:cheers: :detsucks:

[bisonaudit]

Probably a toss up, but with Span's concussion, it will go to Cuddy I would think.

Good discussion by all here btw!!!:cheers: :detsucks:

Agree. If Span isn't able to participate Cuddyer would be my choice. Of course they may go with a pitcher, depending on the log jam of outfielders that the manager feels are deserving, the need to accommodate every team, and a field manageable roster.

[ndsubison1]

Cuddy is a good defender I would say, he puts his best effort forth. Not to mention his arm strength and ability to play 4 positions.

TWSS ten char

[runtheoption]

Mauer to 1st base, about friggin time.

http://www.inforum.com/event/article/id/326035/group/Sports/

See my earlier posts in this thread, #57, 78, and 79. OK, so I was saying a more permanent move to 3rd, LF, or RF, but the idea is the same. Get his bat in the lineup!!!!!!!!!!

[bisonaudit]

Mauer to 1st base, about friggin time.

http://www.inforum.com/event/article/id/326035/group/Sports/

See my earlier posts in this thread, #57, 78, and 79. OK, so I was saying a more permanent move to 3rd, LF, or RF, but the idea is the same. Get his bat in the lineup!!!!!!!!!!

Better to have is bat in the line up than not, but the less he catches the less valuable he is, because 1) he's a superior defensive player at the most important defensive position, catcher and 2) replacement level offensive production at catcher is much lower than at any other position Mauer is likely to play.

[runtheoption]

Better to have is bat in the line up than not, but the less he catches the less valuable he is, because 1) he's a superior defensive player at the most important defensive position, catcher and 2) replacement level offensive production at catcher is much lower than at any other position Mauer is likely to play.

I agree that he is a superior defensive player at the 2nd most important defensive position. You don't think pitcher is the most important defensive position? :)

I stand, again, by my earlier post:


I want Joe's bat in the lineup as much possible more than I want Joe sitting behind the dish calling games. I'll take a healthy Mauer playing 3rd / OF with his bat in the line-up for 140-150 games per year, versus the not-getting any younger, bad legs Mauer insisting on being a catcher for 119.5 games per year (his average # of games per year from 2004-2010).

[onbison09]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qk5wXdKVemM

[onbison09]

:hide: 10 char

[ndsubison1]

cuddyer pitcher in the 8th right now

[duluthbison]

20-5 Texas.....



WTF HAPPENED?

[coldspot]

20-5 Texas.....



WTF HAPPENED?

blackburn and the bullpen were out late partying last night? at least cuddyer showed up to pitch.

[EndZoneQB]

blackburn and the bullpen were out late partying last night? at least cuddyer showed up to pitch.

We're just trying to showcase him to the scouts ;)

On the other hand, it's nice to see Kubel hasn't missed a beat...

[BadlandsBison]

:facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:

But thumbs up to Cuddyer and Kubel

[Wally]

Sell...Sell...Sell!!

[Tatanka]

20-5 Texas.....



WTF HAPPENED?

this. How the hell did the Twins plate 5 runs?

[Bison"FANatic"]

Sell...Sell...Sell!!

Yep time to start shopping people. Liriano and as much as I like him it is time to go fishing with Cuddy and maybe a few more.

[IzzyFlexion]

20-5 Texas.....



WTF HAPPENED?

The Rangers missed an extra point??

[bisonmike2]

The Rangers missed an extra point??

I was thinking the same thing when I saw the score..

Whoa. The NFL really is back. They already had a preseason game start last night with the Texans beating Minnesota, 20 - 6.

[BlueBisonRock]

this. How the hell did the Twins plate 5 runs?

Get your facts down!!!!! :ranting: The twinkies got six!


:facepalm2: :facepalm2: :facepalm2: :facepalm: :facepalm2: :facepalm2: :facepalm2:

[coldspot]

Get your facts down!!!!! :ranting: The twinkies got six!


:facepalm2: :facepalm2: :facepalm2: :facepalm: :facepalm2: :facepalm2: :facepalm2:

two fields goals. easy to kick those in Jerry Jones stadium

[HooliganBison]

DEAD!

That is all carry on.

[BlueBisonRock]

Section 219 brings us Twins Haiku (http://www.startribune.com/sports/twins/blogs/127145688.html)


Didn't watch much Sunday / Instead we shopped for vacuums / They're supposed to suck

[bisonmike2]

DEAD!

That is all carry on.

This. But I've thought they've been dead for a while now. Here's to cheaper seats at Target Field the rest of the way!

[bisonaudit]

Just back from knocking Oakland, AT&T, and Target Field off of my ballpark bucket list.

Saw the Twins twice. They were terrible both times. Defense, pitching and offense all substandard. Felt like I could have stayed home and gone to a couple of Nationals or Orioles games instead. The only saving grace is that neither of them were the three and a half hour east division pitching taking fests that have become all to common. Mark Buehrle and Tim Lincecum both got us home in less than 2:30 and the Oakland game was under 3 hours.

AT&T and Target Field have joined my short list of best ballparks along with PNC and Camden in no particular order.

[ndsubison1]

The Twins traded Matt Garza and Jason Bartlett for something called Cole Nelson and a player to be named later

[BadlandsBison]

I'm happy for Thome, he deserves it :)

[duluthbison]

Good For Thome!

600


Thome became the second-fastest hitter to reach the milestone, hitting his 600th homer in at-bat No. 8,137. Babe Ruth needed only 6,921 at-bats.

[North Side]

love Jim!!! good for him!!

[EndZoneQB]

Jim Thome is the anti-steroid era power hitter. Great guy by all accounts and I was super excited to have him in a Twins uniform. I was worried he wouldn't get it to be honest.

He won't play next year, which is fine since he's definitely paid his dues.

[sambini]

Congrats Jim Thome on 600 homeruns+++

[bisonmike2]

Congrats Jim Thome on 600 homeruns+++

Well that was the last thing to look forward to this year. They might as well pack it in now. No other reason to follow them.

[bri-dog]

Jeez, out here in Denver, I didn't even know until I saw #600 on SportsCenter that he was closing in on 600! I thought there would be a "600" watch ad nauseum every day for the two weeks preceding it. Oh wait, that's just if you play on the East Coast (think A-Rod).

[EndZoneQB]

Well that was the last thing to look forward to this year. They might as well pack it in now. No other reason to follow them.

Like PA said today, they might as well close the season up haha

[bisonaudit]

Jeez, out here in Denver, I didn't even know until I saw #600 on SportsCenter that he was closing in on 600! I thought there would be a "600" watch ad nauseum every day for the two weeks preceding it. Oh wait, that's just if you play on the East Coast (think A-Rod).

Not saying that East Coast bias doesn't exist becuase it clearly does but I thought that the A-Rod thing was suprisingly low key given who he was and who he is playing for.

[CAS4127]

Not saying that East Coast bias doesn't exist becuase it clearly does but I thought that the A-Rod thing was suprisingly low key given who he was and who he is playing for.

Admission of steriod use dampens things these days--just sayin!!

[duluthbison]

Bresciani throws the first pitch at the twins game tonight.

http://i56.tinypic.com/vnz4si.jpg

[Gully]

He had a pretty good throw actually. 100+ Bison fans in attendance. It was weird seeing all the green and yellow at a Twins game.

[bisonmike2]

Bresciani throws the first pitch at the twins game tonight.

http://i56.tinypic.com/vnz4si.jpg

The Twins should sign him. They could use the help in the bullpen.

[roadwarrior]

Tickets for next monday's game against the Royals start at $2.98 on stubhub! LOL

[roadwarrior]

OMG! Even better, you can get tickets for 65 cents for tomorrow's game against Seattle. (before stubhub fees of course)

[aces1180]

OMG! Even better, you can get tickets for 65 cents for tomorrow's game against Seattle. (before stubhub fees of course)

Hell, I heard people are giving away their tickets, along with $20!

[BISONBRI53]

Delmon Young is killing my Yankees!! Thought the Twins dumped him cuz he sucked? Looks like the "next" David Ortiz! HAHA!!

[BadlandsBison]

Delmon Young is killing my Yankees!! Thought the Twins dumped him cuz he sucked? Looks like the "next" David Ortiz! HAHA!!

I told my fellow Twins fans just watch, Delmon will hit 40 HRs next season. Something about Minnesota just saps the power out of these guys.

[344Johnson]

I told my fellow Twins fans just watch, Delmon will hit 40 HRs next season. Something about Minnesota just saps the power out of these guys.

Im thinking .298, 38 HR, 125 RBI's. Straight up beast mode....oh, and about 12 of those HR's come when he plays the Twins.

[NorthernBison]

I told my fellow Twins fans just watch, Delmon will hit 40 HRs next season. Something about Minnesota just saps the power out of these guys.

I argued big time with people who said "good riddance" to Delmon. He should have been hitting third in the Twins lineup because he's a perfect #3 hitter. Unfotrunately, Gardy has that spot reserved for a guy who rarely hits with power and watches more called strikes than anybody in baseball.

I just love the argument that Target Field is the problem. The only team that has trouble hitting home runs at Target Field is the Twins. Shocking.

[bisonaudit]

I'll take the under on all three of 344Johnson's numbers (.298 avg, 38 HR, 125 RBI). My reasons are as follows:

1) He's not very good.
2) Comerica Park plays even bigger than Target field.
3) He's not very good.
4) My 3 year old niece could hit a ball out of Yankee Stadium.
5) He's not very good.
6) Sample size.
7) He's not very good.

[aces1180]

I'll take the under on all three of 344Johnson's numbers (.298 avg, 38 HR, 125 RBI). My reasons are as follows:

1) He's not very good.
2) Comerica Park plays even bigger than Target field.
3) He's not very good.
4) My 3 year old niece could hit a ball out of Yankee Stadium.
5) He's not very good.
6) Sample size.
7) He's not very good.

Last night's game was played in Detroit, not NY.

[bisonaudit]

Last night's game was played in Detroit, not NY.

Yes, and the first two games, where he collected half of his hits, HR, and RBI were played in NY.

The ball he hit out of Yankee stadium wouldn't have been a HR in any other park in baseball. And the one he pulled down the line in Det last night would only be a HR in 8 of 30 ballparks.

http://www.hittrackeronline.com/detail.php?id=92011_4&type=hitter

They were the 2nd and 4th weakest HR balls of the playoffs thus far.

http://www.hittrackeronline.com/top_true_distance.php

The Twins made two mistakes with DY. First they gave up a starting SS and a legit #2 starter for a middling corner outfielder, trading scarsity for the common place. 2nd they held on to him until it was so clear to nearly everyone that he wasn't going to fulfill his potential that they got next to nothing back for him.

[bisonsupporter]

It was no secret the 5th ninja turtle (delmon) did not like the coaching staff in minnesota. He is a "I know more than my hitting coaches" type of player. It was said when he was in TB also.

Avg .255 16 hrs 78 rbi's for next year.