Montana, App State, Georgia Southern... NDSU, what's your move??

[TheBisonator]

Look over on AGS, and you'll see stories of schools like Montana, App State, Sam Houston State, Jacksonville State and Georgia Southern instituting FBS studies. Now, this doesn't mean they'll all move to the FBS in the next 5 years. But it got me thinking: What will the FCS look like in 10-15 years, if in fact, NDSU is still in it?? Will the chaff of the stock like Mankato, Augie and St. Cloud rejoin our level?? Will the NCC be truly reborn, bringing us back to the level we were in during the 80's? Will the wheat like Montana and UNI leave us again with us having our thumbs up our anuses just like in 1978?? Could we be forced to go back to scheduling guarantees against Moorhead?? Will we no longer be allowed to play BCS schools once a year?? What will this Bison program look like?? Will we have won, say, 2 FCS championships by that time, and tell everyone we're just fine with where we are?? Will the F-M metro area reach the magical population number of 300,000 (that I've been saying will be just right for the time to move to FBS)?? (around 95,000 to go as of 2010, BTW).

Will 2020 or so be 1978 all over again?? Will Montana and UNI and some other schools like SIU and Mont. State invite us (and maybe some other Dakota schools) to a new low-level FBS conference, and we say "no, we like playing Moorhead and Emporia State in football!"??

Do I say we need to move to FBS right now?? No. Am I saying that maybe the time to truly stop and think about the long-term future of this program will come sooner rather than later?? Yes.

Do you all want to see NDSU play in the third tier of college football again?? Beating Hillsdale and Chadron State in playoff games?? Should NDSU be playing Wayne State College of Nebraska late in the year, or Southern Illinois late in the year??

I'm asking these questions, because they will need to be answered, probably within the next few years. Some of you will say, "Slow down, partner!! We just started our journey in DI 7 years ago!! Let's just simmer down here!!"

The truth is that we are where we are because we shoved our thumbs in our rectums in 1978. It could've been a good 30-year DI history for NDSU by now. Don't think about when we moved or when we didn't. We made a mistake in '78, we righted the mistake starting in 2002, and we're here now. We need to look forward, not behind us. The fact that we started the DI move only 7 years ago is irrelevant. College sports is an ever-evolving super-organism, and if you don't move along with it, you end up in the outlying areas alongside Mankato and St. Cloud.

Again, don't take this as an endorsement for "FBS in 2011!!!!!!!~!~!~lolololz". Take this as an endorsement for "Gene Taylor needs to start doing some serious thinking, and maybe collaborate some ideas with others, and maybe have a study done that would give us more important facts and info about where we want to be in the next 10 years."

Montana and Montana State did that kind of "study" back in the late 70's. We didn't grasp the concept of that, so when they asked us if we wanted to join them, we rejected them like we thought they were doing something stupid and foolish. I would like to think that this university, and its supporters, are not in the same kind of sheltered Division II mindset that they had over 30 years ago.

That's all I have to say.

[X-Factor]

UNI isn't going anywhere. They are much more likely to move down to DII than up to FBS. The logistics only allow so many teams to be able to afford such a move. There are a lot of move ups lately, but I think that will change very shortly and you will see much more stability with the traditional power teams. Right now this is all talk, and it will stay that way IMO.

[CaBisonFan]

In several years the FCS will be full of schools from DII. The upper-crust of the FCS will move up to the FBS. Then the NCAA...in its wisdom...:cool: ...will create a lower division of the FBS called the 'we screwed you again' division (WSYA). We will hesitate...and then go through a five-year transition period to move to the division that we should have been in since the early 70s...meaning the old DI...or FBS. People will complain about the move. UND folks will call off all competition, even if we don't have it, and the cycle will continue.

Schools with a profile like the ones you mentioned, including UNI, will get a free pass offer to the new division. We will turn it down. Then we'll regret it.

[Bisonguy]

How did NDSU reject the Big Sky back in 1978?:confused:

NDSU and UND both applied for membership back in 1980 or 1981 and were turned down. I'm guessing the move to DI was more than slightly studied before the application was mailed.

[HerdBot]

Look over on AGS, and you'll see stories of schools like Montana, App State, Sam Houston State, Jacksonville State and Georgia Southern instituting FBS studies. Now, this doesn't mean they'll all move to the FBS in the next 5 years. But it got me thinking: What will the FCS look like in 10-15 years, if in fact, NDSU is still in it?? Will the chaff of the stock like Mankato, Augie and St. Cloud rejoin our level?? Will the NCC be truly reborn, bringing us back to the level we were in during the 80's? Will the wheat like Montana and UNI leave us again with us having our thumbs up our anuses just like in 1978?? Could we be forced to go back to scheduling guarantees against Moorhead?? Will we no longer be allowed to play BCS schools once a year?? What will this Bison program look like?? Will we have won, say, 2 FCS championships by that time, and tell everyone we're just fine with where we are?? Will the F-M metro area reach the magical population number of 300,000 (that I've been saying will be just right for the time to move to FBS)?? (around 95,000 to go as of 2010, BTW).

Will 2020 or so be 1978 all over again?? Will Montana and UNI and some other schools like SIU and Mont. State invite us (and maybe some other Dakota schools) to a new low-level FBS conference, and we say "no, we like playing Moorhead and Emporia State in football!"??

Do I say we need to move to FBS right now?? No. Am I saying that maybe the time to truly stop and think about the long-term future of this program will come sooner rather than later?? Yes.

Do you all want to see NDSU play in the third tier of college football again?? Beating Hillsdale and Chadron State in playoff games?? Should NDSU be playing Wayne State College of Nebraska late in the year, or Southern Illinois late in the year??

I'm asking these questions, because they will need to be answered, probably within the next few years. Some of you will say, "Slow down, partner!! We just started our journey in DI 7 years ago!! Let's just simmer down here!!"

The truth is that we are where we are because we shoved our thumbs in our rectums in 1978. It could've been a good 30-year DI history for NDSU by now. Don't think about when we moved or when we didn't. We made a mistake in '78, we righted the mistake starting in 2002, and we're here now. We need to look forward, not behind us. The fact that we started the DI move only 7 years ago is irrelevant. College sports is an ever-evolving super-organism, and if you don't move along with it, you end up in the outlying areas alongside Mankato and St. Cloud.

Again, don't take this as an endorsement for "FBS in 2011!!!!!!!~!~!~lolololz". Take this as an endorsement for "Gene Taylor needs to start doing some serious thinking, and maybe collaborate some ideas with others, and maybe have a study done that would give us more important facts and info about where we want to be in the next 10 years."

Montana and Montana State did that kind of "study" back in the late 70's. We didn't grasp the concept of that, so when they asked us if we wanted to join them, we rejected them like we thought they were doing something stupid and foolish. I would like to think that this university, and its supporters, are not in the same kind of sheltered Division II mindset that they had over 30 years ago.

That's all I have to say.

In my opintion, D1-AA is improving to the point in which it is no longer a suprise when a upset happens. Back in the days, D1-A school had 120+ scholarships. Now the playing field has been leveled.

On the flip side- D2 football is declining and are more on par with NAIA teams like Sioux Falls.

None of those schools you mentioned will jump from D2 to D1-AA. St Cloud is on the verge of cancelling many of their sports, including football.

[ndsubison1]

Im trying to figure out which conferences Appy and G-South would go to? Sun Belt? The SoCo might be just as good as the Sun Belt. C-USA? Doubt it since Appy and GS arent very good in bball. Or would they just join a conference for football only?

[onbison09]

Im trying to figure out which conferences Appy and G-South would go to? Sun Belt? The SoCo might be just as good as the Sun Belt. C-USA? Doubt it since Appy and GS arent very good in bball. Or would they just join a conference for football only?

In football sad but true. :smh:

[bisondad]

Or.......................what if teams that figure out they cannot ever compete for a national championship in FBS decide to move down to FCS, where they can build a good program, more affordably, and compete for a national championship no matter what the name of their school is. I personally like FCS for those very reasons. Not so sure how NDSU would fare in FBS. The travel and the games would be awesome, but I don't know beyond that.

[mebisonII]

In 15-20 years, we might be looking at BCS being its own, separate entity from the FBS, and maybe even separate from the NCAA. Its also possible that there gets to be a backlash from the public about the amount of money put into football teams that can't get any significant national attention anyways and programs may drop down/out. I don't think its exageration to say the entire football landscape might look like something we can't even imagine.

So, I have no idea what NDSU should be preparing for, long-term.

[SDbison]

IMO, the BCS was a big mistake, but thats another story. I really hope Dean, Gene and Criag get together to discuss the future of football at NDSU. In summary there are two reasons a move to FBS would be difficult, but not impossible........Cost and Conference.
If a unique conference situation arose after NDSU had success in FCS for a while and the money situation was figured out there is no reason NDSU couldn't compete and become the next Boise State. Sure that might take 20 years, but without understanding what it takes and a plan for getting it done a move to FBS will never happen (assuming a good conference opportuity - no clue what it could be but you never know with all the changes lately).
Comparing NDSU to Appy, UNI, and even Montana is not even close. Sure Montana has the success, but once NDSU becomes a regular championship contender it will have even more. NDSU will be one of the few FCS teams (if not the only one) in a significant sized growing metro area without nearby competition from other major D1 universities. I could see with playoff success NDSU selling out every home game and building a big wait list for tickets. What other FCS team has a record of 4-3 over FBS teams in 6 years (or first 7 years in DI)? NDSU might already have more media awareness than even Appy or Montana due to the regular FBS victories and the appearance in the NCAA basketball tourney. If there is a team to someday represent the Dakotas at colleges highest level of football it should be NDSU. I really hope this happens in my lifetime.

[Swany]

Interesting take BisonNator. You've clearly put some thought into this. I applaud your enthusiasm and concern. But rest assured, this is probably a discussion that's already occured behind closed doors at NDSU. It's on their radar.

Couple things as far as your post. As has been mentioned, very few schools are going to make the jump from the FCS to FBS level anytime soon. The reason? Follow the money, or lack thereof.

Schools are hemorrhaging money right now because of the economy and state budgets. The State of Iowa told UNI athletics to start finding some money because the plan -- in the near future as I understand it -- is for Iowa to pull all funding from UNI athletics. This is why UNI announced last week they would be playing two FBS (football) opponents per year from now on, for the money.

Similarly, St. Cloud State announced last month that because of budget problems they're considering dropping football. Earlier this week, the University of California announced it would be dropping baseball.

Schools are going to be dropping sports, not moving up levels. I'd be very surprised to see any sort of mass exodus of teams from the FCS to the FBS ranks. The financial commitment to make the jump is staggering. Take a look at the athletic budgets for mid-level WAC or Mountain West teams and compare those to the budgets of upper-echelon FCS schools.

It's quite a leap. You might say, and I think you've mentioned - as have others on this board - that making up that $10-20 million difference per year wouldn't be that difficult. Respectfully, I disagree. Ask someone in development what it's like trying to solicit gifts and donations in this economic climate. It's borderline impossible. Over ten years, if a school, like Montana or Montana State made the jump to FBS, that's $100 million+ they'd need to raise to put their athletic budget on par with mid-level FBS programs.

I'm not saying it's impossible, I'm not saying it doesn't warrant serious consideration. What I am saying is that you better look before you leap.

Now, if you want to write a $100 million check to underwrite a move to FBS, I'm sure NDSU would strongly consider it. :D But until then, with our affiliation with the Missouri Valley and Summit League, we'll probably just sit tight and wait for things to play out a bit. The more probable move? Probably trying to wiggle our way into the Missouri Valley for all sports. At least that's how I see it.

[Hammerhead]

I predict D-1 football will end up in 2 subdivisions.

The top level will have 50-60 teams in 4 or 5 conferences with 10-12 teams in each conference. This subdivision will follow the FCS playoff format with an autobid for each conference and some at-large bids.

The rest of the FBS will then be lumped in with the current FBS conferences.

[NDSUstudent]

I'll say this, if schools like Montana, App State, Delaware, and Georgia Southern are thinking about moving and do. We should do everything possible to follow them. I view those schools as peers and I do not want to repeat having to play in some watered down division.

[onbison09]

I don't think NDSU is on the same level of awareness as App State but I think we have more than Montana with the average fan. I'm not saying we're the better program b/c I think objectively you'd have to say we're not just based off of results. Also the FBS is littered with carcasses of schools that moved up who suck: See Western Kentucky and many others.

[Facts]

My take is this:
1. The brass at NDSU have run these scenarios and are capable.
2. The best scenario for NDSU is full MVC membership and the MVFC moves as a group up to FBS.
3. I hear the money money money (startup, right?) issue... and I understand that point of view, but did any of you read the Montana AD's letter to the university constituents? It sounds to me like Montana is looking at the FBS move as a way to make more money for the university and have a better quality of life/health for the student athletes (in football), I'd never really considered that angle before. The AD made it sound like the revenue from FCS playoffs is negligible and a non-descript bowl game would make way more $$$ for the university.

[mebisonII]

My take is this:
1. The brass at NDSU have run these scenarios and are capable.
2. The best scenario for NDSU is full MVC membership and the MVFC moves as a group up to FBS.
3. I hear the money money money (startup, right?) issue... and I understand that point of view, but did any of you read the Montana AD's letter to the university constituents? It sounds to me like Montana is looking at the FBS move as a way to make more money for the university and have a better quality of life/health for the student athletes (in football), I'd never really considered that angle before. The AD made it sound like the revenue from FCS playoffs is negligible and a non-descript bowl game would make way more $$$ for the university.

I didn't read the entire UM AD letter (tl;dnr) but there are many articles documented that only very few teams make money on their bowl games. Most teams are happy to come out even, if that.

Actually, I think the teams that may come out best, are the conference bottom-dwellers who don't have to pay to travel, but get some of the payout anyways. :hide: (don't know if that's true, just throwing it out there)

[Hammersmith]

I didn't read the entire UM AD letter (tl;dnr) but there are many articles documented that only very few teams make money on their bowl games. Most teams are happy to come out even, if that.

Actually, I think the teams that may come out best, are the conference bottom-dwellers who don't have to pay to travel, but get some of the payout anyways. :hide: (don't know if that's true, just throwing it out there)

While O'Day mentioned bowl game revenue, I think he was talking less about that and more about conference and NCAA payouts. The annual payouts that the NCAA distributes are structured to benefit the FBS schools far above the FCS schools. The FBS conferences also have far more lucrative media contracts(even crap conferences like the WAC will be). When Montana is making something like $35k annually from the Big Sky contract, just about anything would be an upgrade.

[CaBisonFan]

Missoula is not a progressive community in the financial sense. The state is provincial...meaning that they have an attitude that if it ain't broke...don't fix it. I have no problem with some of that...but it doesn't bode well for moving forward, even if they're capable of it.

Bozeman is a new kind of Montana city. The money in the two communities can't be compared. Bozeman is on a mission to show that it is superior, and separate, from the U...and perhaps from the state itself.

So in terms of simple state funding...they're even. But in terms of the ability of the fan base to raise money...Bozeman is a slam dunk.

The profile of each university is subject to the community and region that it is in. Some of the failed FBS programs were very predictable. Winning at the FCS level is just one piece of the puzzle. Having the finances within the region is actually a much larger piece. And being separated from larger markets by enough miles is another big factor. That's where we don't fit in with some of our conference members. Most of the cities are in the shadow of Chicago, Milwaukee, and Indianapolis. It would perhaps be more accurate to call them 'sandwiched.'

Fargo and the surrounding region is large enough to support an FBS program. Even though we're in a slump now...fundamentally...the region has more than enough financial muscle to do whatever it wants. In the final analysis, it's 'desire' that matters the most in the case of NDSU. One could say that priorities is another.

Folks...if people want to be a Nebraska...it's there for the taking. Chapman understood the profile thing. Erhardt did too. Erhardt was a visionary. We have this great tradition, in great part, because of Ron E. Looks to me like the NCAA will be forcing schools to choose a path that they may not want to take.

Thusly...I would hope that NDSU chooses its own path. Onward & upward I say...in due time. Yes...study & prepare. Do it right now? Nope

Play the game this Saturday.

[yellowstreak]

Randy Moss and Chad Pennington played for a different Thundering Heard in FCS and won a National Championship. Since then, Marshall moved to the FBS to enjoy mediocrity.

If the Bison moved to the FBS, there would be 0.00000000000001% chance they would ever win a national championship. The Bison would never get into a conference that mattered enough to be considered a top ranked team. Even if the Bison faithful burned down UND and ever other ND college, NDSU couldn't be big enough and have enough sports revenue to get into a great conference. The most we would have to look forward to would be some bowl game that doesn't really mean anything.

If a national championship isn't possible, why play?

On a side note, IMO the bowl system is stupid. The FCS has it right with a playoff system. In the last twenty years, how often have the top two ranked FCS teams (prior to the playoffs) both made it to the championship game? This should give some indication how meaningless the FBS championship really is.

[MinotBison]

I think there is one other thing to consider. Doesn't the NCAA require a stadium of at least 25,000 for D-IA football teams? If so, where will the money for that come from on top of everything else?

[Run&Blade]

Iowa board of regents are only going to cut UNI athletics $200,000 in funding over the next few years, they will be fine. The regent acknowledged that UNI can't go self funded.

Exaclty w.here does the money come from if schools join some crap conference like the MAC or C-USA? Are people just going to spread their legs open and pay double what they are now for tickets?

What is a good season in FBS in a crap conference? A trip to Detroit around Xmas for a garbage bowl? Oh BOY !!!!!!!!!!

Why would conferences want to add teams that are small with no population base? It isn't going to draw a lot of people to the TV sets.

How often is the MAC or C-USA on TV? almost never nationally.

The Big Ten, Big XII, nor PAC 10 is going to be calling, it will be the MAC/C-USA

[yellowstreak]

it amazes me that FCS schools are looking at the FBS rather than the other way around.

There are around 120 FBS schools. About 55 of those teams (46%) can't become a national champion! They could have the best team ever, go undefeated and not qualify for a national championship game. The best they could hope for would be some meaningless Little Caesars Pizza Bowl or the New Orleans Bowl.

I have no idea why any school would want to be in the MAC, MWC, SBC, C-USA or WAC rather than in FCS.

[Bison"FANatic"]

It looks like Bresciani made it pretty clear.

http://www.inforum.com/event/article/id/294675/

“I don’t think it’s a practical, intelligent or appropriate move for North Dakota State,” said NDSU President Dean Bresciani.

[lakesbison]

Bullshit, your from Texas a & m!! Bring the attitude that everything is better bigger, please!!!!! Has dean already been brain washed by the sbohe, und, et al with the north Dakota motto "aw shucks, we like this small timey stuff" don't rock the boat agenda???

If Montana and backwoods hill appy st can do it, Fargo with 200,000+ and western Minnesota can!!! People are jumping off uminn bandwagon, ndsu could have those fans if we weren't 1-AA ( that's how they still view us)

[NDSUstudent]

Now isn't the time, maybe later when we are more established or if the college football landscape changes. Right now though the FCS and the MVFC is the best place for NDSU football.

[aces1180]

Taylor is quoted in the story as saying he doesn't know how some of the schools talking about moving up could do it. I think he has a pretty good pulse on the FCS landscape, so I agree that now isn't the time. Let's do something in our current division 1st and then talk about moving to FBS.

[bisonfan11]

I really don't see any reason that we should look to move to the FBS at this time. We are not even close to being an established FCS team. I mean yea, we had 2 10-1 seasons, but what have we done after that. Heck since the transition period has been over we have been no where near our goal of competing for a National Championship. I think that NDSU has to stay in the FCS long enough to establish themselves a a premier powerhouse of the FCS to even think that they can play on the same level as a FBS school week in and week out. I wouldn't trade a FCS Championship for 4 or 5 (or more) straight losing seasons in the FBS.

Bottom line: We need to be a much better football program over all before we can even dream of playing in the FBS. Once we look better at the FCS level then we might be entitled to see what options the FBS brings to us, and if NDSU can even AFFORD to become a FBS school.

[CAS4127]

Discussing an NDSU move to FBS level at this point in our mediocore showing as a full-fledged FCS team is like discussing where our first play-off game will be this year--nonsense!

[lakesbison]

whatever. you guys are sissy lil girls on a schoolyard.

I dont wanna play at the highest level.


WHAT THE HELL GUYS, WE COULD BE AND SHOULD BE FBS!

doesnt matter if we won anything at FCS, FBS is where real sports fans actually care about you and not say "oh that I AA school?" or "oh 1 of those dakota schools"

TIME TO MAN UP NDSU AND FARGO AND YOU!!

[CAS4127]

Lakes, I'm pretty sure you are messin around here, but I will bite nonetheless.

By Lakes"doesnt matter if we won anything at FCS, FBS is where real sports fans actually care about you and not say "oh that I AA school?" or "oh 1 of those dakota schools"

First of all, winning does matter, no matter the level, and we are having a difficult enough time winning right where we are. We would be a no-name/who is that in FBS.

Second, "real sports fans" are just that, and don't worry about what division or subdivision "their" team is playin in; nor do they GAS what others say about them; and, nor do they have a Napoleonic complex--enough said I believe!!

[SDbison]

I am one of the guys that want to see NDSU go FBS or whatever the equivalent will be in the 5 to 10 year future. What will be interesting is the move to have the FCS championship game during the thick of the FBS bowl games between Christmas and New Years. That could possibly help bring more attention to the game. Again not sure if that is when the championship is scheduled for this year (could someone verify).
Also holding the championship in something more than a Texas high school soccer stadium would help. Sorry Texas Bisonville folks that move was bush league. The Chattanooga site was much better on several levels.

[CAS4127]

in the 5 to 10 year future.--yep, let's re-visit this then, and I agree on the championship game move!

[NDSUstudent]

Come on SD, where would you rather go? Dallas or Chattanooga?

[Gully]

it amazes me that FCS schools are looking at the FBS rather than the other way around.

There are around 120 FBS schools. About 55 of those teams (46%) can't become a national champion! They could have the best team ever, go undefeated and not qualify for a national championship game. The best they could hope for would be some meaningless Little Caesars Pizza Bowl or the New Orleans Bowl.

I have no idea why any school would want to be in the MAC, MWC, SBC, C-USA or WAC rather than in FCS.

I pretty much agree for most of the teams and conferences, although the Mountain West would probably be worth it. The OLD WAC as well. Think of where Boise State is now....do you really think they'd move down to FCS?

I'm not saying we should move up though...I think the goal should be Valley BB.

[EndZoneQB]

Come on SD, where would you rather go? Dallas or Chattanooga?

Dallas isn't anything special. Pretty pretentious and full of Ed Hardy-type douchebags. Texans don't even really like Dallas.

[silkamilkamonico]

I would not be in favor of moving up to FBS.

It's a watered down version of what it once was, and no oppurtunity to play for anything significant whatsoever.

Boring and no thanks.

Just MHO.

[ndsubison1]

Bowl games > FCS championship

[SDbison]

Bowl games > FCS championship
Especially when the FCS championship is played on a Texas High School soccer field.

[SDbison]

Come on SD, where would you rather go? Dallas or Chattanooga?
Chattanooga.

[BadlandsBison]

Dallas isn't anything special. Pretty pretentious and full of Ed Hardy-type douchebags. Texans don't even really like Dallas.

Walker Texas Ranger liked Dallas....

I guess I don't like Dallas:D

[NDSUstudent]

It is actually a Major League Soccer stadium. I know soccer sucks but it is perfectly fine stadium, pretty much the same thing as chatty(I'm pretty sure soccer has been played there as well).

[rabidrabbit]

Especially when the FCS championship is played on a Texas High School soccer field.

Actually its a professional soccer team's home field. The bad new is that it's the same day as the Cotton Bowl. Pray these aren't on at the same time.

[coldspot]

Bowl games > FCS championship

which says more about the caliber of the program? having a good regular season record/winning the conference and then winning a few more games against some of the best teams in the division just to get to the championship game, or going 6-6 and playing in the peter pan peanut butter bowl against a subpar sunbelt/wac/mac team?

[NorthernBison]

which says more about the caliber of the program? having a good regular season record/winning the conference and then winning a few more games against some of the best teams in the division just to get to the championship game, or going 6-6 and playing in the peter pan peanut butter bowl against a subpar sunbelt/wac/mac team?

Gophers have been to lot of Bowl games. That should answer your question.

[TransAmBison]

Gophers have been to lot of Bowl games. That should answer your question.
:rofl: That's some good stuff right there!

[lakesbison]

Ya and 25-30k goto alamo,sun orvcapital 1 bowl every time, sounds good to me

[CAS4127]

Ya and 25-30k goto alamo,sun orvcapital 1 bowl every time, sounds good to me

Nodak schools 2-Goofs 2 (and we all know the record should be 4-0)--enough said about caliber of programs!

[silkamilkamonico]

Going FBS would benefit the basketball team as well. I probably wouldn't watch the football games anymore because they would be meaningless but that would easily be replaced by the basketball team being in a more prestigeous conference for basketball!

[semobison]

Back when we were winning national championships in the 80's, you would be suprised how many people would comment,... North dakota State, you guys have that good football team.... I heard that more than once in places like California, Arizona, Colorado etc...Our football team was our idenity....The other night on ESPN, Marshall was playing Central Florida, I think.... The only thing I knew about these schools was that Marshall USED TO BE a 1AA powerhouse! This discussion is 5-10 years premature!

[onbison09]

Actually its a professional soccer team's home field. The bad new is that it's the same day as the Cotton Bowl. Pray these aren't on at the same time.

It's a pretty nice stadium. Really easy to get to plus DFW's gotta be easier to get to than Chatty.