Vigen needs to go, not Bohl

[soupcan]

Why isn't Vigens performance not talked about more? Even in the good years the play calling was less than most 9 man teams, it is unbelievable how simple it is. He has never done anything good for the bison since being a 3rd string tight end, to the worst recuiting cordinator ever, to leading the most pathetic offense in NDSU history! History I say. WHY DOES HE STILL HAVE A JOB COACHING FOOTBALL ANYWHERE??????? Much less at a high level.

[SDbison]

Don't say anything that has truth and negativity here........you will get red reputation squares from the guys that constantly drink the koolaid and see through green and gold glasses.

[Twentysix]

Imo dont be a pussy, post your opinions on your main accounts. Sheesh. We need some public IP logs. This guy might have a point and might not, ill have to look into it. but please post IPs if people are gonna make this many alt accounts.

[MNLonghorn10]

his play calling is pathetic and predictable.

[soupcan]

Just want to hear one good thing that Vigen has done for this program. Can you image what other teams d cordinators think when they watch our tape.

[Twentysix]

Just want to hear one good thing that Vigen has done for this program. Can you image what other teams d cordinators think when they watch our tape.

your opinion is valid, but dump the alt account.

[EndZoneQB]

I called this into question earlier and actually got green repped. Like I've said previously, he may have been a good Bison player, but that doesn't make him a D-I OC. He has never coached anywhere else, just moved his way up here...which is all fine and dandy, but a few changes in scenery really allow you to develop a style and learn some different nuances of the game. You need more than one influence. Personally, I think he's gotten too comfortable here...content doing the status quo. He was removed as recruiting coordinator after subpar performance...I think this needs to be looking into more. I say we let Bohl do a little play calling and see what he comes up with for a few games. If it's same ole same ole, well then I'll leave Vigen out of it. I've just never seen the adjustments on offense that we should expect.

[Twentysix]

I called this into question earlier and actually got green repped. Like I've said previously, he may have been a good Bison player, but that doesn't make him a D-I OC. He has never coached anywhere else, just moved his way up here...which is all fine and dandy, but a few changes in scenery really allow you to develop a style and learn some different nuances of the game. You need more than one influence. Personally, I think he's gotten too comfortable here...content doing the status quo. He was removed as recruiting coordinator after subpar performance...I think this needs to be looking into more. I say we let Bohl do a little play calling and see what he comes up with for a few games. If it's same ole same ole, well then I'll leave Vigen out of it. I've just never seen the adjustments on offense that we should expect.

Ive always wanted to learn more about the overall control of a football team that the HC has, and how much the respective o and d coordinators have to do with it.

Do any HC call plays? Does bohl have anything to do with the offense, obviously he is the one who has to reprimand the coordinators when they screw up, but does bohl have massive input in play calling or minimal or none? I would think if anything he probably helps the d plays.

Anyone have any links, video literature etc that break this down? Ive never been a headcoach of any kind how would i know? lol.

[soupcan]

Dear Mr. 26: i just registered tonite for the first time and I'am not a tech wizard, and I do not know what an alt account means, and last time I checked I did not have a vagina. What information about me do you need to know so I can comment on the offensive cordinator without being called names you tampon.

[Twentysix]

Dear Mr. 26: i just registered tonite for the first time and I'am not a tech wizard, and I do not know what an alt account means, and last time I checked I did not have a vagina. What information about me do you need to know so I can comment on the offensive cordinator without being called names you tampon.

lol. Well great to have a new poster. Seems like there have been alot of new couple post accounts lately, figured you were another. I appologize.

[56BISON73]

Why not let the QB call the plays? The QB has more of a feel for whats going on out on the field. Plus hes getting input from the players on whats happening.

[ben_slim]

Hold the freakin phone!!I usually don't get this verclepped but some of you people have got your head up where the sun don't shine!!The Herd is playing with a young banged up O-line, they played a superior and very quick and well coached uni defense.UNI graduated there o-line and qb,not the defense.This is no time to start this nonsense about running people off, geez we are 500 we only lost one game, the season just started for gawd sake!!We have the same record as the #1 rated team Montana 1-1.It's time to calm down,start breathing through your nose and get ready for next saturday!! GOBISON!!

[99Bison]

Hold the freakin phone!!I usually don't get this verclepped but some of you people have got your head up where the sun don't shine!!The Herd is playing with a young banged up O-line, they played a superior and very quick and well coached uni defense.UNI graduated there o-line and qb,not the defense.This is no time to start this nonsense about running people off, geez we are 500 we only lost one game, the season just started for gawd sake!!We have the same record as the #1 rated team Montana 1-1.It's time to calm down,start breathing through your nose and get ready for next saturday!! GOBISON!!

Is there anyone referencing that it's 2 games... It's the track record of 2.2 years that frustrates.

[ndsubison1]

I would like to see Bohl do some of the play calling.

[99Bison]

I would like to see Bohl do some of the play calling.

Like last year?

[56BISON73]

Hold the freakin phone!!I usually don't get this verclepped but some of you people have got your head up where the sun don't shine!!The Herd is playing with a young banged up O-line, they played a superior and very quick and well coached uni defense.UNI graduated there o-line and qb,not the defense.This is no time to start this nonsense about running people off, geez we are 500 we only lost one game, the season just started for gawd sake!!We have the same record as the #1 rated team Montana 1-1.It's time to calm down,start breathing through your nose and get ready for next saturday!! GOBISON!!

No kidding. I cant believe the bitching going on. Hell they are even bitching about the freaking band.
People were crying the Bison are back after KS. Some were espousing it the greatest win in Bison history. Lose one game and the suppoed fans fall apart. I would hate to see what would have happened if we had lost to KS also. Thank god there arent any cliffs around Fargo because there would be some leepers for sure.
Its a damn game for crying out loud. Get over it and move on.

[soupcan]

Edgely-kulm might be 1-1, what does that have to do with the last 4 years of the most basic play calling anybody has ever seen and absolutley no sign of changing. How bout that theory of keeping it vanilla in kansas so we didnt show uni our big playbook? I love the bison and I donate heavily and I want to see them kickass everyday in everything, but we will never do it without a change in offensive leadership.

[Notorious]

Mohler would be sweet running the veer :)

[imabisonfan]

Why isn't Vigens performance not talked about more? Even in the good years the play calling was less than most 9 man teams, it is unbelievable how simple it is. He has never done anything good for the bison since being a 3rd string tight end, to the worst recuiting cordinator ever, to leading the most pathetic offense in NDSU history! History I say. WHY DOES HE STILL HAVE A JOB COACHING FOOTBALL ANYWHERE??????? Much less at a high level.

It's one game...and UNI is a better team than Kansas, hands down, we all know it. And one other thing, he(Vigen) found Turner at MVHS before his soph year...and Turner WILL be playing on Sunday's without a doubt.

[TransAmBison]

I've been pondering this now since the loss...are our QB's trained to read defenses? Not a joke, serious question. Walker changed the play at the line all the time. He seemed to change it as much as leave it...at least that is how memory serves. Thinking back to last year and then these couple games, kind of makes me question the coaching. When we run the ball and get completely stuffed...should the qb not see this potentially happening? UNI sure didn't appear to be disguising anything.

The o-line was overloaded...and could not handle it. Mohler had no chance in the pocket, and seemed to be more accurate on the run. Would not designed roll outs have helped a ton? Heck, throw in an option pass play.

I just think we should have been able to burn them plenty with a west coast offense that specializes in short quick passes. We should have so many routes to choose from. I have to really agree with the calling out of the offensive coordinator...which consequently calls out the head coach.

I'm not calling for anybodies head. Just saying there are a lot of questions. After two games our offense looks pretty sad...and it looks a lot like last years offense...which looked a lot like the offense from the year before. True, Walker used the same plays...but he used all of them...and he used the ones appropriate for the situation...changing when needed.

Kind of like if Bisonmike always wears the same underwear on Tuesdays. If a Tuesday comes along and the laundry hasn't been done...he needs to be flexible enough to wear a different pair. Right now, he is just ignoring the crusties and pretending everything is fine.

[tony]

Holy cow, I can hardly believe what I'm reading in some of these threads.

I'm not going to say everything is going to be dandy this year especially if Austin Richard is hurt, but I'm still giving them a chance. They just have to keep improving every week - and you'd think that with all the first year players that NDSU would have more potential for improvement than most other teams.

Every W is going to be a struggle, starting with Morgan State.

[steelbison]

I called this into question earlier and actually got green repped. Like I've said previously, he may have been a good Bison player, but that doesn't make him a D-I OC. He has never coached anywhere else, just moved his way up here...which is all fine and dandy, but a few changes in scenery really allow you to develop a style and learn some different nuances of the game. You need more than one influence. Personally, I think he's gotten too comfortable here...content doing the status quo. He was removed as recruiting coordinator after subpar performance...I think this needs to be looking into more. I say we let Bohl do a little play calling and see what he comes up with for a few games. If it's same ole same ole, well then I'll leave Vigen out of it. I've just never seen the adjustments on offense that we should expect.

I have to agree 100%. I like Brent but the Offense is the most predictable I have ever seen. If I see one more short pass to the FB in the flat I might pull all my hair out! Look at the UNI offense, it keeps you guessing, mis-direction, short passes, long passes, something different every series.

We need the WR to be the leading receivers, not the Full backs and TE's. On top of it we have a QB that has zero pocket awareness. Which to me says lets roll out more. But I don't recall us rolling out once then entire game.

You can beat avg/below avg teams with that offense. You don't stand a chance against better teams IMHO.

[Bison bison]

It is impossible to have pocket awareness if there is no pocket.

[TransAmBison]

It is impossible to have pocket awareness if there is no pocket.
Are we still talking about football?

[steelbison]

It is impossible to have pocket awareness if there is no pocket.

At times, yes, others he had time and still when the pocket would collapse a little he would take off. All he had to do was step up and throw the ball.

He also locks onto one rec. and that's it..reminds me of our past QB...

Also, can he check out of a play ever? Steve did this all the time.

Going into the season I was told Jose does not have the it factor to play QB. The same person in his opinion thought Brock in the few times he had seen him did the little things that you can't teach.

This came from someone that knows about QB's..

[Notorious]

This came from someone that knows about QB's..

Jessica Simpson ?

[mebisonII]

I didn't see the game on Sat. and I hardly qualify as a football expert, but I can't see any reason why you don't give Brock some playing time against Morgan State. Not the start, but let him run a couple series. Some folks say you can't undermine Jose as the leader, but regardless of how anyone is playing, you are only one helmet-to-the-knee away from having to switch QBs, so why not give another player some reps?

[56BISON73]

I will agree the play calling has been predictable. You also have to look at the fact that our opponents have coached there player pretty good on reading the keys. With that thought in mind I think we need to run more mis-directional plays. Since they are obviously keying on DJ you run a counter. But heres the rub. If the O-line doesnt execute that play doesnt work either.

So we have now traveled around our thumb to get back to our ass. With all the complaining about whats wrong with this team it comes down to one thing. If the O-line executes we win the game. No matter how freaking vanilla the play book or how predictable the play calling is. The O-line executes we win the game. Period
The O-line wasnt lackluster at all. They just got beat by better personnel. Call it what it is.

On another note
I dont see for anybody calling for DJs ouster when he had neg yards. Then why are some calling for Joses? Same deal folks.

[Bison bison]

All he had to do was step up and throw the ball.



to who?


abcedfg

[Bison bison]

I didn't see the game on Sat. and I hardly qualify as a football expert, but I can't see any reason why you don't give Brock some playing time against Morgan State. Not the start, but let him run a couple series. Some folks say you can't undermine Jose as the leader, but regardless of how anyone is playing, you are only one helmet-to-the-knee away from having to switch QBs, so why not give another player some reps?



I'm not a football expert either, but you don't use games to try out quarterbacks!


the only time you change quarterbacks is when he's hurt, playing like sh#t, or changing schemes for a play or six.


there needs to be a single leader on offense. our leader is jose mohler.


he's done nothing to merit being benched. nothing.

[Wacker_in_the_Hall]

Wow, there are lots of dim lights shining in Bisonville!!

[lakesbison]

Perles than Vigen.

1's in the NFL, the other IS NOT ADAPTING TO OUR ABILITY FOR 3rd straight year.


he sends in a play from the sideline thinking Walker and Roehl are running it.

[EndZoneQB]

At times, yes, others he had time and still when the pocket would collapse a little he would take off. All he had to do was step up and throw the ball.

He also locks onto one rec. and that's it..reminds me of our past QB...

Also, can he check out of a play ever? Steve did this all the time.

Going into the season I was told Jose does not have the it factor to play QB. The same person in his opinion thought Brock in the few times he had seen him did the little things that you can't teach.

This came from someone that knows about QB's..

I also heard from someone that was a cornerstone of the 07 team. His words to me at the last scrimmage were: "I like that Jose kid....he's got something special, just something about him...I can't pinpoint it, moxie or something...but I like him."

I took that in pretty high regard considering the source.

[TransAmBison]

I also heard from someone that was a cornerstone of the 07 team. His words to me at the last scrimmage were: "I like that Jose kid....he's got something special, just something about him...I can't pinpoint it, moxie or something...but I like him."

I took that in pretty high regard considering the source.
Lakes? :D:D :D :D :D :D :D

[SDbison]

It is impossible to have pocket awareness if there is no pocket.
BS......I was at the game and many times Mohler just gives up and starts running......sometimes right into the rushing defenders.......for proof look at the first play on the Bohl show (there were many times like that that are not on the show). Mohler has no pocket presence and does not know how to side step and keep looking down his receiver. Clinic on how to do this is Walker.......reference the last two plays during the SHSU game.

[EndZoneQB]

Lakes? :D:D :D :D :D :D :D

Damnit, I gave it up that easily??

[SDbison]

Wow, there are lots of dim lights shining in Bisonville!!
Obviously Wacker you are the dimest!

[bisonmike2]

I've been pondering this now since the loss...are our QB's trained to read defenses? Not a joke, serious question. Walker changed the play at the line all the time. He seemed to change it as much as leave it...at least that is how memory serves. Thinking back to last year and then these couple games, kind of makes me question the coaching. When we run the ball and get completely stuffed...should the qb not see this potentially happening? UNI sure didn't appear to be disguising anything.

The o-line was overloaded...and could not handle it. Mohler had no chance in the pocket, and seemed to be more accurate on the run. Would not designed roll outs have helped a ton? Heck, throw in an option pass play.

I just think we should have been able to burn them plenty with a west coast offense that specializes in short quick passes. We should have so many routes to choose from. I have to really agree with the calling out of the offensive coordinator...which consequently calls out the head coach.

I'm not calling for anybodies head. Just saying there are a lot of questions. After two games our offense looks pretty sad...and it looks a lot like last years offense...which looked a lot like the offense from the year before. True, Walker used the same plays...but he used all of them...and he used the ones appropriate for the situation...changing when needed.

Kind of like if Bisonmike always wears the same underwear on Tuesdays. If a Tuesday comes along and the laundry hasn't been done...he needs to be flexible enough to wear a different pair. Right now, he is just ignoring the crusties and pretending everything is fine.

Hey, I wear the same underwear Mon-Thursday, then a different, special pair for the weekend.

[bisonbills]

BS......I was at the game and many times Mohler just gives up and starts running......sometimes right into the rushing defenders.......for proof look at the first play on the Bohl show (there were many times like that that are not on the show). Mohler has no pocket presence and does not know how to side step and keep looking down his receiver. Clinic on how to do this is Walker.......reference the last two plays during the SHSU game.

This is spot on. I was there and this is exactly what I saw.

I also found this interesting. A little something to chew on.........


"It was amazing," said Fort, who also had a first-half interception and notched a team-high 12 tackles. "We actually ran that (defensive) play three or four times in a row and I was like, 'Are they going to block it, pick it up, adjust to it?' They didn't."

Three or four times in a row?! Can we make some sort of adjustment?

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/article/20100911/SPORTS020702/9120347/1003/SPORTS/Northern-Iowa-football-Defense-fuels-win-over-North-Dakota-State

[KTF]

How come nobody here has brought up Scott Fuchs name? I am sure he is working harder then the two choaches mentioned in the title to turn this around. This offensive line play is "not normal" under his tenure. He is a highly regarded coach who will turn things around.

Last year NDSU had a good to great line that Fuchs had to help develop. I see him doing the same thing with this line.

I personally think the problem was the overwhelming the speed and agressiveness of the UNI defense was too much for this young line.

[bisonmike2]

This is spot on. I was there and this is exactly what I saw.

I also found this interesting. A little something to chew on.........



Three or four times in a row?! Can we make some sort of adjustment?

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/article/20100911/SPORTS020702/9120347/1003/SPORTS/Northern-Iowa-football-Defense-fuels-win-over-North-Dakota-State

That's unbelievably sad, pathetic and embarrassing. UNI's players basically calling out our coaching staff for their inability to make adjustments. I wish somebody would ask Bohl about this at the presser.

[heckler]

This is spot on. I was there and this is exactly what I saw.

I also found this interesting. A little something to chew on.........



Three or four times in a row?! Can we make some sort of adjustment?

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/article/20100911/SPORTS020702/9120347/1003/SPORTS/Northern-Iowa-football-Defense-fuels-win-over-North-Dakota-State

That is a little disturbing.

[bisonbills]

How come nobody here has brought up Scott Fuchs name? I am sure he is working harder then the two choaches mentioned in the title to turn this around. This offensive line play is "not normal" under his tenure. He is a highly regarded coach who will turn things around.

Last year NDSU had a good to great line that Fuchs had to help develop. I see him doing the same thing with this line.

I personally think the problem was the overwhelming the speed and agressiveness of the UNI defense was too much for this young line.

When I was at the game, I didn't really dissect the game and the play of the players, but after watching the Bohl show and seeing some highlights, the backs did a terrible job helping out. Really terrible. Mohler was not comfortable all night and was really slow getting the ball out. His first instinct seemed to be to run. I honestly don't think the line did that bad of a job. They can only do so much.

[BurroBlue]

Mohler would be sweet running the veer :)

THIS!

10char

[tjbison]

I have a solution, maybe its been brought up, but you set up Vigen with a computer and his e-mail and let US call the plays that should solve everything. My first call will be the Tarkenton special

:D

[bisonbills]

That's unbelievably sad, pathetic and embarrassing. UNI's players basically calling out our coaching staff for their inability to make adjustments. I wish somebody would ask Bohl about this at the presser.

No one has the balls to ask that. I coach my son's 6th grade team and if we see a team is doing something and is handing us our ass, we do something different. If that doesn't work, we try something different. If that doesn't work, we try something different. See a pattern Bison coaches????????

[Bison bison]

I honestly don't think the line did that bad of a job.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

they looked like sh#t.

i'm not sure why our opinions would differ so much?

of course, i was watching the game on tv - so how could i have a clue?

i was also queuing in on the o-line (actually watching ('dissecting') plays and players while you admitted you didn't).

[bisonmike2]

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

they looked like sh#t.

i'm not sure why our opinions would differ so much?

of course, i was watching the game on tv - so how could i have a clue?

i was also queuing in on the o-line (actually watching ('dissecting') plays and players while you admitted you didn't).

Maybe he was watching the Bison rewind show? That or he's blind and while reading the game transcript in braille he mistook :..: .:.::. :...: ....::.. as "That's another Bison rushing first down"?

[bisonbills]

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

they looked like sh#t.

i'm not sure why our opinions would differ so much?

of course, i was watching the game on tv - so how could i have a clue?

i was also queuing in on the o-line (actually watching ('dissecting') plays and players while you admitted you didn't).

You would actually have a better perspective than I did at the game. Like I said, I was only able to really get a good perspective on the highlights I saw on the coach's show, which weren't very many. When I watched the game initially, I thought the o line played like garbage too, but after watching again, the backs would barely touch the d line and Mohler was looking to run if the play was not there immediately. Now the run blocking was another story........ But when you can stack the box, you can stop the run all day long.

[MNLonghorn10]

anytime you give up 11 sacks, somethings not working

[Bison bison]

The pass blocking the by backs was just as bad as the o-line most of the time, imo.

And that's why I don't understand much of the criticism against Mohler.

The dude was sacked 11 times.

A single sack is oftentimes enough to throw a seasoned qb off his game.

Jose should have a been a heap of piss, drool, and sh#t by the end of the game. Instead he's working on a game winning drive.

[bisonbills]

I never said Mohler wasn't tough. He clearly is. He got beat around all game and still put us in a situation to win, but from what I saw in the highlights and from my braille box scores :D , he looked panicked early. He's young and got rattled early. He will have a good future at NDSU. But blocking is more than the o line. When a back steps up to make a block, hits the guy and lets him go, unless it's a screen, or you're Tyler Roehl and knock your guy down, it's a bad block. I would also say the comment by the uni player says a lot. As a defender, if you know the offense is not going to do anything about you beating them, you can play with your ears pinned back.

[#1BISONFAN ASHLEY]

I think it's time for me to put the headsets on soon!

[skolbrother]

Perhaps it has been mentioned but did Mohler passes look like the trajectory of the ball was going down in other words the front tip of th ball alway looked like it was diving? Not easy to catch. Additionally, we need more decisiveness from that position. Obviously the protection was for sh!t!

[CaBisonFan]

Why isn't Vigens performance not talked about more? Even in the good years the play calling was less than most 9 man teams, it is unbelievable how simple it is. He has never done anything good for the bison since being a 3rd string tight end, to the worst recuiting cordinator ever, to leading the most pathetic offense in NDSU history! History I say. WHY DOES HE STILL HAVE A JOB COACHING FOOTBALL ANYWHERE??????? Much less at a high level.

I'm not afraid to comment on this topic. I've been consistent about this. The offensive scheme isn't collegiate caliber. The play calling is so bad, that I'm able to predict a majority of the plays. A good defensive coordinator has an easy 'prep' the week of a Bison game. Nothing personal against Brent. I've heard that he's a great guy. I agree 100 percent. It's not talked about much because people like him. Enough...is enough. He belongs on the staff somewhere...but he's out of position. We need a D-I offensive coordinator with a creative mind. Why is our offensive line struggling so much? Partly, because the opposing defense is in our playbook. Makes it kinda hard to block...if you know what I mean. You can see it in the body language of the offense. They have 'zero' confidence. Same the past couple of years. The QB thing was just one piece of the puzzle. The 'run' is super easy to stop. I can even tell which gap it's going to when they line up. Again...if I can tell...it's really bad.

[nordeast]

I'm not afraid to comment on this topic. I've been consistent about this. The offensive scheme isn't collegiate caliber. The play calling is so bad, that I'm able to predict a majority of the plays. A good defensive coordinator has an easy 'prep' the week of a Bison game. Nothing personal against Brent. I've heard that he's a great guy. I agree 100 percent. It's not talked about much because people like him. Enough...is enough. He belongs on the staff somewhere...but he's out of position. We need a D-I offensive coordinator with a creative mind. Why is our offensive line struggling so much? Partly, because the opposing defense is in our playbook. Makes it kinda hard to block...if you know what I mean. You can see it in the body language of the offense. They have 'zero' confidence. Same the past couple of years. The QB thing was just one piece of the puzzle. The 'run' is super easy to stop. I can even tell which gap it's going to when they line up. Again...if I can tell...it's really bad.

Absolutely correct. Even though the staff doesn't have a whole lot to work with - it still seems as though they aren't trying very hard.

[HerdBot]

Why isn't Vigens performance not talked about more? Even in the good years the play calling was less than most 9 man teams, it is unbelievable how simple it is. He has never done anything good for the bison since being a 3rd string tight end, to the worst recuiting cordinator ever, to leading the most pathetic offense in NDSU history! History I say. WHY DOES HE STILL HAVE A JOB COACHING FOOTBALL ANYWHERE??????? Much less at a high level.

Why is it that everything has to EXTREME!!?? It's either be "greatest ever" or "fire him?"

You don't kill a fly with a sledge hammer or try and grab it with chop sticks. Try being a little more even keeled. Try the fly swatter approach.

How about calling the thread... "Vigen needs to improve?" If you really care about the team, you would realize losing your offensive coordinator in the middle of the season would be a devastating loss and even worse for recruiting. Are you ready to throw in the towel after going 1-1 vs some darn good competiton? We're ranked buddy and in a few weeks we will be ranked high enough to get into the playoffs.

Vigen and recruiting? He's the one who got many of our latest rock star recruits. It's the coaches that moved on that really screwed up recruiting. At least get your facts straight.

Game calling? I agree. We need to make changes. The offense is too predictible. Maybe they are keeping it simple with all the new starters? I highly doubt he's sitting back and saying "yeah let's only run like 5 plays." Lets see if they improve before calling for his head.

[MAKABISON]

Dear Mr. 26: i just registered tonite for the first time and I'am not a tech wizard, and I do not know what an alt account means, and last time I checked I did not have a vagina. What information about me do you need to know so I can comment on the offensive cordinator without being called names you tampon.

I just registered yesterday as well and do not know what alt account and was wondering if there was a kind soul that would tell me.

As for Vigen the problem started when he became a qb coach what does he know about a qb much less about oc

[TransAmBison]

Why is it that everything has to EXTREME!!?? It's either be "greatest ever" or "fire him?"

You don't kill a fly with a sledge hammer or try and grab it with chop sticks. Try being a little more even keeled. Try the fly swatter approach.

How about calling the thread... "Vigen needs to improve?" If you really care about the team, you would realize losing your offensive coordinator in the middle of the season would be a devastating loss and even worse for recruiting. Are you ready to throw in the towel after going 1-1 vs some darn good competiton? We're ranked buddy and in a few weeks we will be ranked high enough to get into the playoffs.

Vigen and recruiting? He's the one who got many of our latest rock star recruits. It's the coaches that moved on that really screwed up recruiting. At least get your facts straight.

Game calling? I agree. We need to make changes. The offense is too predictible. Maybe they are keeping it simple with all the new starters? I highly doubt he's sitting back and saying "yeah let's only run like 5 plays." Lets see if they improve before calling for his head.
If there was a fifth play involving fly swatters and chop sticks I missed it, but I would agree it sounds creative.:D

[overquota]

On a semi-related note, I see Dan Enos won his first game as the HC of Central Michgan.

[Notorious]

If a reverse works, wouldn't a "double reverse" work even better!! I should probably e:mail my resume to GT....

[MAKABISON]

I have to agree 100%. I like Brent but the Offense is the most predictable I have ever seen. If I see one more short pass to the FB in the flat I might pull all my hair out! Look at the UNI offense, it keeps you guessing, mis-direction, short passes, long passes, something different every series.

We need the WR to be the leading receivers, not the Full backs and TE's. On top of it we have a QB that has zero pocket awareness. Which to me says lets roll out more. But I don't recall us rolling out once then entire game.

You can beat avg/below avg teams with that offense. You don't stand a chance against better teams IMHO.

As for are WR's they fast but thats it they don't run the right routes they don't make spectacular plays. #81 Holloway cost us a td when he ran into #82 Veldman in Kansas.

The TE over the middle has always been our bread and butter but Bohl stays away from it cause everybody since Walker gets picked cause they don't know how to read a defense.

The rollout pass to the FB gets us good yards or puts 6 on the board. Iguess I thought we rolled out but then again maybe that was Jose running for his life!

[nordeast]

Why is it that everything has to EXTREME!!?? It's either be "greatest ever" or "fire him?"

You don't kill a fly with a sledge hammer or try and grab it with chop sticks. Try being a little more even keeled. Try the fly swatter approach.

How about calling the thread... "Vigen needs to improve?" If you really care about the team, you would realize losing your offensive coordinator in the middle of the season would be a devastating loss and even worse for recruiting. Are you ready to throw in the towel after going 1-1 vs some darn good competiton? We're ranked buddy and in a few weeks we will be ranked high enough to get into the playoffs.

Vigen and recruiting? He's the one who got many of our latest rock star recruits. It's the coaches that moved on that really screwed up recruiting. At least get your facts straight.

Game calling? I agree. We need to make changes. The offense is too predictible. Maybe they are keeping it simple with all the new starters? I highly doubt he's sitting back and saying "yeah let's only run like 5 plays." Lets see if they improve before calling for his head.

Facts are straight. Don't be fooled by Vigen signing some young players that may or may not still pan out. Vigen was part of the problem with not signing a QB for many years and also part of the problem in signing poorly evaluated the talent that has been losing games recently.

You may give coaches too much credit. Just look at Connor McGovern and how he admitted that Brewster/Minnesota never even offered to him - so he signs with Mizzou. Don't automatically assume these coaches know what they're doing or put in the required effort.

They are paying for their past mistakes and should be terminated for it. This team will be better next year, no matter what happens this year. I just hope another staff is in place by the time 2011 rolls around.

[Caves39]

annexation of puerto rico should be our only play call. it worked in pee wee football on little giants why cant it work in FCS play?

[EndZoneQB]

annexation of puerto rico should be our only play call. it worked in pee wee football on little giants why cant it work in FCS play?

lmao, ok you got some rep for this one.

[Caves39]

lmao, ok you got some rep for this one.

I mean think about it nobody is going to expect austin richards to score a td after all the moving parts get put into motion. If we can get a hold of his dad to stand under the goal posts for added motivation. Yeah buddy the score board is going to get lit up.

[Wacker_in_the_Hall]

Obviously Wacker you are the dimest!

SD....I have forgotten more about football than you will ever know.

If "dimest" was a word it would have 2 m's

[SDbison]

SD....I have forgotten more about football than you will ever know.

If "dimest" was a word it would have 2 m's
Wow, it took you that long to look it up in the dictionary?

[SlickVic]

Wow, it took you that long to look it up in the dictionary?

it all take you even longer to find a post from him about the game of football...he must have forgot it all

[soupcan]

I just want to make one thing clear, I realize we are 1-1. But my original comment is about the lifetime of vigens career as being cordinator not just the last 2 games & as a previous poster stated what makes a 3rd string tight end,qualified to be a qb coach? Seriously this is not bullshit, I do not understand. how does a person who has lived his life on the line teach a person how to be a qb at a high level? Anybody who is honest with themselves knows Brent Vigen is a nice guy but he has no place being an o cordinator in division 1 football, it is time for a reality check and quit worriying about high school feelings. Again this is about way more than 2 games.

[TransAmBison]

it all take you even longer to find a post from him about the game of football...he must have forgot it all
Chea baby! Gotta love the pedestal he put himself up on...yet offers nothing to validate his claim. I'm sure he knows plenty...but would be nice for him to offer something worthwhile to the board.*









*Same could be said for myself**
**Except for the knowing plenty part.

[GPSIT]

Recruit Mr. Walker as QB Coach for next year and find a quality OC for next year and problem solved. I believe the players can adapt to the competition if coached properly. Maybe they will circle the wagons this week for the home opener and show us a spark.

[Herd Mentality]

I thought the Bison looked better throughout the game...probably not anyway related to the fact that I was drinking heavily.

[Bison bison]

ala all the saturday nights in college when you ending up taking a bearded fat lady home?

[THEsocalledfan]

I will agree the play calling has been predictable. You also have to look at the fact that our opponents have coached there player pretty good on reading the keys. With that thought in mind I think we need to run more mis-directional plays. Since they are obviously keying on DJ you run a counter. But heres the rub. If the O-line doesnt execute that play doesnt work either.

So we have now traveled around our thumb to get back to our ass. With all the complaining about whats wrong with this team it comes down to one thing. If the O-line executes we win the game. No matter how freaking vanilla the play book or how predictable the play calling is. The O-line executes we win the game. Period
The O-line wasnt lackluster at all. They just got beat by better personnel. Call it what it is.

On another note
I dont see for anybody calling for DJs ouster when he had neg yards. Then why are some calling for Joses? Same deal folks.

Best post I have seen on this. Reps to PL. AND, just to be clear, poor O line play still reflects poorly on Coach Vigen and Coach Bohl.

[ScooterMN]

No kidding. I cant believe the bitching going on. Hell they are even bitching about the freaking band.
People were crying the Bison are back after KS. Some were espousing it the greatest win in Bison history. Lose one game and the suppoed fans fall apart. I would hate to see what would have happened if we had lost to KS also. Thank god there arent any cliffs around Fargo because there would be some leepers for sure.
Its a damn game for crying out loud. Get over it and move on.

OK, so i suppose it's fair to curb the sky is falling mentality that seems to have embraced the bisonville fan base. But come on you can't just toss away the stats of the past 2 games as not painting a picture can you? I mean let's get real. We've amassed an embarassing 375 total yards (342 through the air) in 2 games! We've scored a whopping 15 points in 2 games! We have one touchdown in 2 games! We're allowing an average of 363 yards of offense each game.

I'm all for trying to keep things in perspective and letting the season play out but seriously, we aren't a good team right now. We are being out played and out coached in every aspect of the game. If everyone wants to take a 6-3 win at Kansas to the bank as some great accomplishment, go ahead. For me, it was a gift by a team that was playing it's first game under a new coach and not in synch. If we played that team again, they would take us to the woodshed.

So go ahead and look at the world through rose colored glasses if that makes you feel better. But we've got real problems boys. And it's gonna get uglier before the sun starts shining.

[Thunder_Struck]

I have not read all the post so this may have already been discussed. They either need to teach the WR's and TE's to run the correct routes or the play design is not good. In the Kansas game Veldman may have caught a TD had Warren not knocked it away from him. Not sure why 2 people are in the same spot. This happened at least 1 other time last year as well between Veldman and a WR.

Last week Jose's INT at the end of the 1st Half may have been completed to Howard had the TE (Smith?) not tipped it. This one is maybe more exceptable because Jose was scrambling and the receivers may have adjusted to him breaking out of the pocket.

[SDbison]

I just want to make one thing clear, I realize we are 1-1. But my original comment is about the lifetime of vigens career as being cordinator not just the last 2 games & as a previous poster stated what makes a 3rd string tight end,qualified to be a qb coach? Seriously this is not bullshit, I do not understand. how does a person who has lived his life on the line teach a person how to be a qb at a high level? Anybody who is honest with themselves knows Brent Vigen is a nice guy but he has no place being an o cordinator in division 1 football, it is time for a reality check and quit worriying about high school feelings. Again this is about way more than 2 games.
Bingo! This is one of the biggest problems on the team. If Vigen can recruit keep him, but he is no o-coordinator or QB coach. Maybe if he was filling multiple roles at an NAIA school this would be OK. Sorry, I would be pissed if I applied for a promotion and somebody that was already in a position which they were unqualified got the promotion to a position where they are not only inexperienced, but in over their head. Its not just that I got overlooked, its the fact that the complany will now suffer the impact of poor decisions.

[56BISON73]

OK, so i suppose it's fair to curb the sky is falling mentality that seems to have embraced the bisonville fan base. But come on you can't just toss away the stats of the past 2 games as not painting a picture can you? I mean let's get real. We've amassed an embarassing 375 total yards (342 through the air) in 2 games! We've scored a whopping 15 points in 2 games! We have one touchdown in 2 games! We're allowing an average of 363 yards of offense each game.

I'm all for trying to keep things in perspective and letting the season play out but seriously, we aren't a good team right now. We are being out played and out coached in every aspect of the game. If everyone wants to take a 6-3 win at Kansas to the bank as some great accomplishment, go ahead. For me, it was a gift by a team that was playing it's first game under a new coach and not in synch. If we played that team again, they would take us to the woodshed.

So go ahead and look at the world through rose colored glasses if that makes you feel better. But we've got real problems boys. And it's gonna get uglier before the sun starts shining.

If you had read ANY of my posts you would have seen where I said we were OUT COACHED and OUT PLAYED. No rose colored glasses here. Valid points have been made. Are there problems ? yes.

But is there any reason to KEEP beating the same drum to make ones self feel better because he has a point? IMO no.
Its just 3 days until another kick off. Iam getting ready for that. UNI is old news. We need to move on.
Its a freaking game for crying out loud.

[SDbison]

The problem is a win no matter how big against Morgan State does nothing to resolve the issue that the Bison suck at rivalry and big conference games.......for several years now. I put that on the coaches!

[ScooterMN]

If you had read ANY of my posts you would have seen where I said we were OUT COACHED and OUT PLAYED. No rose colored glasses here. Valid points have been made. Are there problems ? yes.

But is there any reason to KEEP beating the same drum to make ones self feel better because he has a point? IMO no.
Its just 3 days until another kick off. Iam getting ready for that. UNI is old news. We need to move on.
Its a freaking game for crying out loud.

Fair enough. I didn't read through all 80 posts. It was your latest post that caught my eye and felt like you were being dismissive of what I think are bigger issues than some are giving credit for.

I'll keep in mind that I need to read through every post before making a comment to avoid frustrating you...

[56BISON73]

Fair enough. I didn't read through all 80 posts. It was your latest post that caught my eye and felt like you were being dismissive of what I think are bigger issues than some are giving credit for.

I'll keep in mind that I need to read through every post before making a comment to avoid frustrating you...

Not frustrated at all. I agreed with the majority of your original post. It was this parting line that took me aback.

So go ahead and look at the world through rose colored glasses if that makes you feel better. But we've got real problems boys. And it's gonna get uglier before the sun starts shining.

Thats what I was basically responding to.




http://www.bisonville.com/forum/images/buttons/quote.gif (http://www.bisonville.com/forum/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=399228)

[LITTLEGUYSINGREEN]

IMO if we drop one of the next two games, then the entire staff needs to start polishing up their resumes.

[Scooter1]

I found Vigen's gameplan for Morgan State.

1. Fullback pass out of backfield on a play action to the right.
2. Dive up the middle
3. Slow developing run to the outside.
4. 3rd and long pass near the sidelines for 6 yards
5. Screen pass
6. Check off pass to the tailback.
7. 4 yard pass to a wide receiver
8. Slant over the middle (opps that was the other team)
9. 3rd and long QB run up middle
10 The dreaded punt.

[Caves39]

I found Vigen's gameplan for Morgan State.

1. Fullback pass out of backfield on a play action to the right.
2. Dive up the middle
3. Slow developing run to the outside.
4. 3rd and long pass near the sidelines for 6 yards
5. Screen pass
6. Check off pass to the tailback.
7. 4 yard pass to a wide receiver
8. Slant over the middle (opps that was the other team)
9. 3rd and long QB run up middle
10 The dreaded punt.

How bout a double reverse.

Serious question though does anyone else get bothered by the punt formation we changed to last year? I know it seems like every college does this formation.

[CaBisonFan]

There is absolutely 'nothing' wrong with a discussion about the coaching personnel. As long as the personnel discussion doesn't get personal, then it's fair-game.

OK...everyone raise their hand. Who thinks that the offense will come around this fall against some of our stronger opponents? Who thinks that we'll be strong enough to score 3 or 4 touchdowns on SDSU? How about SIU?

Another...who thinks that it's all on the players?

Me? I'm tired of hearing that we're young.

We got spoiled by Steve Walker & Co. I got spoiled by the veer machine...when personnel changed massively some years...and the machine still had a level of execution that would have made some of the DI option offenses look shabby. You know...Oklahoma, Nebraska, & Texas used used to run good option games. Our execution was consistently better. We went through years when the QB was just adequate. The system worked. The players had 'great' confidence in it.

Our offense has absolutely nothing going for it. There is no scheme...nadda. It doesn't improve. It declines. I feel bad for the players. I'm sorry...but I can't condone less than mediocre coaching for these young men.

So we beat Kansas. OK? How did we do that? Our defense snuffed them.

[ndsubison1]

How bout a double reverse.

Serious question though does anyone else get bothered by the punt formation we changed to last year? I know it seems like every college does this formation.

No

/discussion

[Bison_Backer]

Its time to get rid of the west coast along with Vigen. You shouldn't get your job by just hanging around. Perles knew what he was doing had experience Vigen has just waited, he was a unknown. never had to prove himself as a coordinator, naver had to actually do it and NDSU is not the place to learn. Try Mayville they always need an OC.

[stevdock]

Its time to get rid of the west coast along with Vigen. You shouldn't get your job by just hanging around. Perles knew what he was doing had experience Vigen has just waited, he was a unknown. never had to prove himself as a coordinator, naver had to actually do it and NDSU is not the place to learn. Try Mayville they always need an OC.

I know Perles is held in high regards for what he did during the 10-1 seasons, so this isn't going to be popular. But I honestly don't think he was all that great. His offense looked great, but that was more due to Walker and his ability to audible to the right play then necessarily the plays that Perles called. Now did Walker, Perles, and Bohl sit down and have a plan of attack against different looks?? I'm sure they did, but Walker still had to audible to the right play. Mertens and Mohler aren't able to audible and that is going to make our offense look worse just because of that.

We are running the same offense as we have since Bohl started, the difference is the personnel and their abilities.

[Wacker_in_the_Hall]

it all take you even longer to find a post from him about the game of football...he must have forgot it all

Anytime, anyplace Vic, you and me, trivia, x's and o's. Oh and bring your ghetto blaster.

[TransAmBison]

Anytime, anyplace Vic, you and me, trivia, x's and o's. Oh and bring your ghetto blaster.
I can appreciate that post. Good to see your sense of humor, Wacker. Well played.

[WYOBISONMAN]

Anytime, anyplace Vic, you and me, trivia, x's and o's. Oh and bring your ghetto blaster.

Ghetto blaster?.....LOL....slick will bring a cardigan! ;)

[SlickVic]

Anytime, anyplace Vic, you and me, trivia, x's and o's. Oh and bring your ghetto blaster.

K 5 college games and 3 nfl games starting this weekend against the spread...pm our picks to wyo and he can post them...don't forget

[X-Factor]

I have thought about this for a bit, and I more and more I am starting to side with those who think we need to can Vigen. Is he the source of all of our problems? Certainly not. However, is he helping the cause? Doubtful. I do believe this however: We should give him the season to make improvements, unless things really start to spiral out of control.

There are TWO things I would like everyone to think about:

1. The Sioux Falls coach would make a PERFECT offensive coordinator at NDSU and I would bet lots of benjamins he would do a better job than anyone on our entire coaching staff at that particular job. Hire him. He wasn't a fit as our DC, but for our OC he most certainly is.

2. It was only a short while ago that SDSU lost to DIII Wisconsin LaCross (who??) and just last year SDSU made the playoffs. We are certainly not in the situation of losing to some pathetic DIII school, so I think this season will still turn out just fine and I still think we make the playoffs, crappy offensive coordinator or not.

Lets just let this play out a few more weeks and see what happens. Let some of our new starters jell, they have some easier opponents coming up so hopefully that sets the tone for the rest of the season.

[WYOBISONMAN]

K 5 college games and 3 nfl games starting this weekend against the spread...pm our picks to wyo and he can post them...don't forget

If you wish........I shall moderate this competition. Slick.......Wacker......just let me know.

[THEsocalledfan]

If you wish........I shall moderate this competition. Slick.......Wacker......just let me know.

You said Wacker......(que the Beavis and Butthead laughing)

[Bison bison]

Looks like at the worst, Bohl has bought himself another year.

even going 5-6 is only going to cost Vigen his job.

[CaBisonFan]

I know Perles is held in high regards for what he did during the 10-1 seasons, so this isn't going to be popular. But I honestly don't think he was all that great. His offense looked great, but that was more due to Walker and his ability to audible to the right play then necessarily the plays that Perles called. Now did Walker, Perles, and Bohl sit down and have a plan of attack against different looks?? I'm sure they did, but Walker still had to audible to the right play. Mertens and Mohler aren't able to audible and that is going to make our offense look worse just because of that.

We are running the same offense as we have since Bohl started, the difference is the personnel and their abilities.

You have made a good point; however, the actual execution of the offense is absolutely horrible. Steve was a coach on the field...and he had others out there who completely 'got it.' We agree on that.

With average to good personnel...the offense should still work however...and it's not just the last two games. This is over 2 years of BS...DIII or NAIA caliber offense. It's not working at all.

Nick M. took the brunt of the criticism. So...if we can completely diss a college kid for two years...then where does the OC land in this equation? Is it 'hands off Brent' still...or should a coach take some heat for consistency in mediocrity?

Why should a Bison team...the flagship of North Dakota State athletics, and arguably the greatest athletic dynasty in the history of the state or region...be 'content' with 3 years of this?

Walker was Houdini...but at least Perles didn't get in his way. He knew enough to let Steve run the show.

[Bison_Backer]

When your isolated geographically its better to be unique then predictable. Everyone in the world runs our offense and they do it better. time to bring back the option, or at least some other unique scheme.

[THEsocalledfan]

When your isolated geographically its better to be unique then predictable. Everyone in the world runs our offense and they do it better. time to bring back the option, or at least some other unique scheme.

TAB and I approve your message. I am also souring on the West Coarst offense. If you don't have the right QB, you are completely sunk. Jose could probably run the veer very well as he is built like Feeney was.

[TransAmBison]

TAB and I approve your message. I am also souring on the West Coarst offense. If you don't have the right QB, you are completely sunk. Jose could probably run the veer very well as he is built like Feeney was.
I love the veer no doubt about it, but I do like the West Coast offense as well. I think if you are unsuccessful with the West Coast offense, you will also be unsuccessful with the veer, though. Both offenses take a lot of dedication and everybody completing their assignments. I just think they are not using their full arsenal of plays for some reason. Example...we were down close to the goal line and running was not working. I expected to see a fade route to the corner. Didn't see it. Kind of wondered why. I don't remember seeing any bootleg plays either. Probably happened some, but I tipped a few and might have forgotten. Even if they did run it, they did not run many. Also don't remember seeing the bubble screen to a receiver...like they got a TD on with Travis White against Ball State. They just don't seem to be running near as many plays. If they ran the veer and only ran a few of the same plays, it would be easy to stop. I am just really curious as to why the playbook is so limited. Also, if you ran the veer without audibles...I think there would be a lot of 3 and outs as well.

[BurroBlue]

Also, if you ran the veer without audibles...I think there would be a lot of 3 and outs as well.

You don't even need a very extensive audible package. Just the ability to run midline, inside veer, outside veer, and speed option would provide the opportunity to make an intelligent change at the line. Just find the sucker who's begging to look silly and run the dive right at him. One and three step passing trees work really well with veer, too. But, like was mentioned earlier, you need to be a highly disciplined team to execute consistently.

[THEsocalledfan]

You don't even need a very extensive audible package. Just the ability to run midline, inside veer, outside veer, and speed option would provide the opportunity to make an intelligent change at the line. Just find the sucker who's begging to look silly and run the dive right at him. One and three step passing trees work really well with veer, too. But, like was mentioned earlier, you need to be a highly disciplined team to execute consistently.

And, the other obvious veer problem was you have no ability to come back if down by more than 7-8 later in the 4th quarter. We never win the UC Davis game a few years ago with the veer. But also, you may not find yourself that far down very often, either.

If you are going to run West Coast, you have to have a deadly accurate passer who can make quick decisions and hit folks in stride. Joe Montana and Bret Favre are probably the best that have ever run it as they had that ability. Steve Walker was that equivalent at our collegiant level and the single most valid reason to criticize the coaches is we have yet to see any quarterback that can consistantly do the above since Walker left. I think more recruting criticism, even though out of season, is waranted until someone else can prove me wrong in a game. I just hope Bohl isn't so stubborn to give another QB a try if needed or we will never know.......

[TransAmBison]

And, the other obvious veer problem was you have no ability to come back if down by more than 7-8 later in the 4th quarter. We never win the UC Davis game a few years ago with the veer. But also, you may not find yourself that far down very often, either.

If you are going to run West Coast, you have to have a deadly accurate passer who can make quick decisions and hit folks in stride. Joe Montana and Bret Favre are probably the best that have ever run it as they had that ability. Steve Walker was that equivalent at our collegiant level and the single most valid reason to criticize the coaches is we have yet to see any quarterback that can consistantly do the above since Walker left. I think more recruting criticism, even though out of season, is waranted until someone else can prove me wrong in a game. I just hope Bohl isn't so stubborn to give another QB a try if needed or we will never know.......
I'm going to go out on a limb here...I wonder the Bison have been recruiting the wrong kind of receivers. I believe they have put a lot of emphasis on speed...and I think speed is the least important. Seriously. You need speed for separation going deep...and that is good for maybe a couple plays a game. I think there should be more emphasis on good hands and route running...both things our receivers have had trouble with in recent years. Maybe I am crazy, but I think speed is overrated...not that it isn't important...but who cares how fast they run if they can't get the ball.

[bisonmike2]

I'm going to go out on a limb here...I wonder the Bison have been recruiting the wrong kind of receivers. I believe they have put a lot of emphasis on speed...and I think speed is the least important. Seriously. You need speed for separation going deep...and that is good for maybe a couple plays a game. I think there should be more emphasis on good hands and route running...both things our receivers have had trouble with in recent years. Maybe I am crazy, but I think speed is overrated...not that it isn't important...but who cares how fast they run if they can't get the ball.

Yep, case in point 1. Heckendorf. Although he was deceptively fast, he was better known as a good route runner with great hands.

[THEsocalledfan]

I'm going to go out on a limb here...I wonder the Bison have been recruiting the wrong kind of receivers. I believe they have put a lot of emphasis on speed...and I think speed is the least important. Seriously. You need speed for separation going deep...and that is good for maybe a couple plays a game. I think there should be more emphasis on good hands and route running...both things our receivers have had trouble with in recent years. Maybe I am crazy, but I think speed is overrated...not that it isn't important...but who cares how fast they run if they can't get the ball.

Agree with you that route running is huge as that creates seperation just as much, if not more, than speed. And, West Coast is not a verticle game too often, so I think you are clearly onto an issue I maybe slightly missing. (By they way, you to be able to catch, too!) One last thing I would add, and this is why I am more worried about the QB, is the QB often makes WR's look great, but I can think of very few times a WR can make a QB look greate. (I am not talking about one play, but making think said player is awesome. How many WR's did Bret Favre make great (Freeman, Walker, Drive, Rice, Harvon etc. everyone he played with!)? How many WR's did Elway make great? Jim Kelley? Montana? Young? go down the list.....) Even Randy Moss could not do that in Oakland, etc.

[EndZoneQB]

Yep, case in point 1. Heckendorf. Although he was deceptively fast, he was better known as a good route runner with great hands.

I'm pretty sure Heck ran low 4.4s

[Notorious]

I'm pretty sure Heck ran low 4.4s

35, or 40 ???? ;)

[Caves39]

I'm pretty sure Heck ran low 4.4s

No way he was a 4.4 in the 40.

[Caves39]

No way he was a 4.4 in the 40.

I take that back.

[EndZoneQB]

I take that back.

HAHA, I had heard a rumor that he ran like a 4.38 at his pro day. I figured that was a little fast, though.

If you watch his plays tho, especially 08, you can really see that he DID have some great speed. He's running motion just wasn't the smoothest so it didn't look like he was moving that fast. He turned the corner on a lot of plays and made 10-15 yard plays into 60-80 yard plays. We so badly need a WR to step up, it's not even funny. Heck was ALWAYS open or if he wasn't "open", he seemingly always made a big play.

[stevdock]

I love the veer no doubt about it, but I do like the West Coast offense as well. I think if you are unsuccessful with the West Coast offense, you will also be unsuccessful with the veer, though. Both offenses take a lot of dedication and everybody completing their assignments. I just think they are not using their full arsenal of plays for some reason. Example...we were down close to the goal line and running was not working. I expected to see a fade route to the corner. Didn't see it. Kind of wondered why. I don't remember seeing any bootleg plays either. Probably happened some, but I tipped a few and might have forgotten. Even if they did run it, they did not run many. Also don't remember seeing the bubble screen to a receiver...like they got a TD on with Travis White against Ball State. They just don't seem to be running near as many plays. If they ran the veer and only ran a few of the same plays, it would be easy to stop. I am just really curious as to why the playbook is so limited. Also, if you ran the veer without audibles...I think there would be a lot of 3 and outs as well.

You are absolutely right. We are not running anywhere close to the same plays as we used to, but to be honest that could be because of personnel. Do we have someone to throw a good fade?? Not the easiest throw and has to be perfect. I think we have the tall receivers to be able to go get it. Bubble screens, I have no idea. Sounds like a great play for Sigers.

Also why don't we do ANY crossing routes. They are so tough to defend, because once you get a step on the DB, you're gone, because either you cross in front of the LB's and they can't catch up, or behind the LB's and then you just have safeties over the top. I'm all for a vertical passing game along with quick outs, but I really think crossing routes would open up things. The only thing is you have to have time to run crossing routes. It wouldn't have helped us at all on Saturday. I know we used to run them though but I think that was back in the option days. Definitely not since Bohl took over though.

[KTF]

You are absolutely right. We are not running anywhere close to the same plays as we used to, but to be honest that could be because of personnel. Do we have someone to throw a good fade?? Not the easiest throw and has to be perfect. I think we have the tall receivers to be able to go get it. Bubble screens, I have no idea. Sounds like a great play for Sigers.

Also why don't we do ANY crossing routes. They are so tough to defend, because once you get a step on the DB, you're gone, because either you cross in front of the LB's and they can't catch up, or behind the LB's and then you just have safeties over the top. I'm all for a vertical passing game along with quick outs, but I really think crossing routes would open up things. The only thing is you have to have time to run crossing routes. It wouldn't have helped us at all on Saturday. I know we used to run them though but I think that was back in the option days. Definitely not since Bohl took over though.


I recall at least one againist Kansas but they were in 3 and 5+ yard situation where Mohler did a check down to Mack. Mohler had close to 3-4 seconds to survey the field and Mack was dragging across about 6-8 yards off the LOS in between the LB's and Safeties, all he had to do was fall down for the first down.

[lakesbison]

Vigen should leave at half time....pathetic

[HerdBot]

Vigen should leave at half time....pathetic

Im actually thinking the same thing

[A1pigskin]

USD is going to have a hay day on our Offense.

[Kevin]

USD is going to have a hay day on our Offense.

Bullshit. They beat Minnesota, so what. We would beat Brewster's rejects.

USD loses in the FargoDome. Just like old times.

[TheBisonator]

Bullshit. They beat Minnesota, so what. We would beat Brewster's rejects.

USD loses in the FargoDome. Just like old times.

THANK YOU. Some positivity on this board!!!

[A1pigskin]

If Brock puts up points and our O line does their job then we should win. I thought after the UNI game the O line would have been fixed. So I am a little resevered.

[A1pigskin]

THANK YOU. Some positivity on this board!!!

I do know MN is out for revenge on NDSU.

[MN_BISON]

USD is going to have a hay day on our Offense.

Not so sure, wasn't at all impressed by USD's defense against the Gophers. Webber had all day to sit back in the pocket, they just didn't make enough plays. Hell, I don't know, not saying USD isn't going to be tough but they aren't going to walk into the Fargodome and push the Bison around, that I'm sure of. I'm more worried about the USD QB than their defense at this point.

[bisonfan11]

Not so sure, wasn't at all impressed by USD's defense against the Gophers. Webber had all day to sit back in the pocket, they just didn't make enough plays. Hell, I don't know, not saying USD isn't going to be tough but they aren't going to walk into the Fargodome and push the Bison around, that I'm sure of. I'm more worried about the USD QB than their defense at this point.

I have a feeling that South Dakota's QB won't pass the ball well against us (nobody has passed over 170 yards against us). But I am afraid that he will rush for over 100 yards against us.

[Thunder_Struck]

Was nice to see that our WR's were not crashing into our TE's this week. Now if we can prevent our RB's from knocking down our QB's we'll be in business.

[tony]

Was nice to see that our WR's were not crashing into our TE's this week. Now if we can prevent our RB's from knocking down our QB's we'll be in business.

HAHAHAHAHAAHAA! ... ouch, though, very ouch. :)