O-line Observations

[buffalobob]

Full disclosure, I am a former o-lineman so I know of what I speak. The noise level on the field made it impossible for the offense to hear the snapcount. Normally the line has the advantage of hearing the snap count. When you can't hear it you have to wait for the defense to come at you. This creates false starts and advantage to the defense.

Each o-lineman has gaps and assignments for his position. The rusher coming off the outside of the left tackle is the responsibility of the runningback. Our back missed it at least twice. The left tackle did often have to hold off more than one because of the blitzes, but he is to hold the spot in front & inside of his gap.

Our QB is not holding the pocket. Instead of dropping back in the pocket, he is stepping sideways and forward. That causes him to run into our lineman. He is also taking up to 6 seconds to throw the ball. It is impossible for the line to hold the protection that long. QB then gets sacked.

Our left guard was injured. The right tackle moved to right guard. Right guard moved to left guard. Freshmen moved to right tackle. That leaves only 2 veteran starters. Experience takes time and the oline needs to improve, but don't blame them for what they can't control.

[WYOBISONMAN]

Full disclosure, I am a former o-lineman so I know of what I speak. The noise level on the field made it impossible for the offense to hear the snapcount. Normally the line has the advantage of hearing the snap count. When you can't hear it you have to wait for the defense to come at you. This creates false starts and advantage to the defense.

Each o-lineman has gaps and assignments for his position. The rusher coming off the outside of the left tackle is the responsibility of the runningback. Our back missed it at least twice. The left tackle did often have to hold off more than one because of the blitzes, but he is to hold the spot in front & inside of his gap.

Our QB is not holding the pocket. Instead of dropping back in the pocket, he is stepping sideways and forward. That causes him to run into our lineman. He is also taking up to 6 seconds to throw the ball. It is impossible for the line to hold the protection that long. QB then gets sacked.

Our left guard was injured. The right tackle moved to right guard. Right guard moved to left guard. Freshmen moved to right tackle. That leaves only 2 veteran starters. Experience takes time and the oline needs to improve, but don't blame them for what they can't control.

I am optomistic these kids will improve with more experience. We are young, young, young.

[silkamilkamonico]

Agreed about the experience part.

But, at what point will our offense be "solidifed". It seems like every year for the past 3 years, some unit needs something.

I know it's an entirely different scenario right now, but I miss the days when the offense would reload, and tweak. Now it just seems like it's constantly rebuildinging.

[MinotBison]

Full disclosure, I am a former o-lineman so I know of what I speak. The noise level on the field made it impossible for the offense to hear the snapcount. Normally the line has the advantage of hearing the snap count. When you can't hear it you have to wait for the defense to come at you. This creates false starts and advantage to the defense.

Each o-lineman has gaps and assignments for his position. The rusher coming off the outside of the left tackle is the responsibility of the runningback. Our back missed it at least twice. The left tackle did often have to hold off more than one because of the blitzes, but he is to hold the spot in front & inside of his gap.

Our QB is not holding the pocket. Instead of dropping back in the pocket, he is stepping sideways and forward. That causes him to run into our lineman. He is also taking up to 6 seconds to throw the ball. It is impossible for the line to hold the protection that long. QB then gets sacked.

Our left guard was injured. The right tackle moved to right guard. Right guard moved to left guard. Freshmen moved to right tackle. That leaves only 2 veteran starters. Experience takes time and the oline needs to improve, but don't blame them for what they can't control.

When the noise level is high, isn't there a silent count method the QB can use, at least when they are in the shotgun formation?

[westnodak93bison]

Full disclosure, I am a former o-lineman so I know of what I speak. The noise level on the field made it impossible for the offense to hear the snapcount. Normally the line has the advantage of hearing the snap count. When you can't hear it you have to wait for the defense to come at you. This creates false starts and advantage to the defense.

Each o-lineman has gaps and assignments for his position. The rusher coming off the outside of the left tackle is the responsibility of the runningback. Our back missed it at least twice. The left tackle did often have to hold off more than one because of the blitzes, but he is to hold the spot in front & inside of his gap.

Our QB is not holding the pocket. Instead of dropping back in the pocket, he is stepping sideways and forward. That causes him to run into our lineman. He is also taking up to 6 seconds to throw the ball. It is impossible for the line to hold the protection that long. QB then gets sacked.

Our left guard was injured. The right tackle moved to right guard. Right guard moved to left guard. Freshmen moved to right tackle. That leaves only 2 veteran starters. Experience takes time and the oline needs to improve, but don't blame them for what they can't control.

Good points. Also, that damn 3-4 has always given us fits.

[Tatanka]

Full disclosure, I am a former o-lineman so I know of what I speak. The noise level on the field made it impossible for the offense to hear the snapcount. Normally the line has the advantage of hearing the snap count. When you can't hear it you have to wait for the defense to come at you. This creates false starts and advantage to the defense.

Each o-lineman has gaps and assignments for his position. The rusher coming off the outside of the left tackle is the responsibility of the runningback. Our back missed it at least twice. The left tackle did often have to hold off more than one because of the blitzes, but he is to hold the spot in front & inside of his gap.

Our QB is not holding the pocket. Instead of dropping back in the pocket, he is stepping sideways and forward. That causes him to run into our lineman. He is also taking up to 6 seconds to throw the ball. It is impossible for the line to hold the protection that long. QB then gets sacked.

Our left guard was injured. The right tackle moved to right guard. Right guard moved to left guard. Freshmen moved to right tackle. That leaves only 2 veteran starters. Experience takes time and the oline needs to improve, but don't blame them for what they can't control.

Too bad we didn't know about the noise going into the game. Then we could have prep HEY WAIT A MINUTE.

I agree that Mohler is not a pocket passer. Maybe out of necessity, as it's probably difficult for him to see the field through all the trees. Certainly our o coordinator knows this and is working to mitigate the issue, right?

There were several plays where I saw our center snap the ball, then stand there in space and watch as UNI players swarmed all around him, then he ran around aimlessly . Sadly this was actually an improvement over the plays where he was knocked backwards into his own QB. Don't want to single out the center--the unit as a whole was horrendous. But clearly our O-line was ill prepared and/or ill equipped to handle what UNI was throwing at time. I don't want to believe either one, but I hope it's the former and not the latter (or both :()

[stevdock]

Too bad we didn't know about the noise going into the game. Then we could have prep HEY WAIT A MINUTE.

I agree that Mohler is not a pocket passer. Maybe out of necessity, as it's probably difficult for him to see the field through all the trees. Certainly our o coordinator knows this and is working to mitigate the issue, right?

There were several plays where I saw our center snap the ball, then stand there in space and watch as UNI players swarmed all around him, then he ran around aimlessly . Sadly this was actually an improvement over the plays where he was knocked backwards into his own QB. Don't want to single out the center--the unit as a whole was horrendous. But clearly our O-line was ill prepared and/or ill equipped to handle what UNI was throwing at time. I don't want to believe either one, but I hope it's the former and not the latter (or both :()

I have a hard time giving credit to a post when there is erronous info in it. It was the guard that got blown back. Go back and watch the tape if you don't believe me or the others who have tried to correct you.

[Tatanka]

I have a hard time giving credit to a post when there is erronous info in it. It was the guard that got blown back. Go back and watch the tape if you don't believe me or the others who have tried to correct you.

Actually, you're the first to correct me, and although I'm pretty sure I saw the center get blown back it doesn't really matter. I have higher expectations for a Bison offense.

And I have no problem giving credit to a post even when there's erroneous spelling in it... no reason to be hostile IMHO. ;)

[BisonNolesFan77]

Our QB is not holding the pocket. Instead of dropping back in the pocket, he is stepping sideways and forward. That causes him to run into our lineman. He is also taking up to 6 seconds to throw the ball. It is impossible for the line to hold the protection that long. QB then gets sacked.

Our left guard was injured. The right tackle moved to right guard. Right guard moved to left guard. Freshmen moved to right tackle. That leaves only 2 veteran starters. Experience takes time and the oline needs to improve, but don't blame them for what they can't control.

Coming from another former OLineman here,

You are spot on with your paragraph is regards to our QB. Zero pocket awareness.

The shuffle going on the OL is coaching decision I have a huge problem with. Instead of dealing with one backup playing and dealing with one potentially weak spot, you move half of your OL around and are not dealing with weak spots at over half of your OL. Instead of one problem you create 3. Makes no sense at all to me...

[ndsubison1]

Full disclosure, I am a former o-lineman so I know of what I speak. The noise level on the field made it impossible for the offense to hear the snapcount. Normally the line has the advantage of hearing the snap count. When you can't hear it you have to wait for the defense to come at you. This creates false starts and advantage to the defense.

Each o-lineman has gaps and assignments for his position. The rusher coming off the outside of the left tackle is the responsibility of the runningback. Our back missed it at least twice. The left tackle did often have to hold off more than one because of the blitzes, but he is to hold the spot in front & inside of his gap.

Our QB is not holding the pocket. Instead of dropping back in the pocket, he is stepping sideways and forward. That causes him to run into our lineman. He is also taking up to 6 seconds to throw the ball. It is impossible for the line to hold the protection that long. QB then gets sacked.

Our left guard was injured. The right tackle moved to right guard. Right guard moved to left guard. Freshmen moved to right tackle. That leaves only 2 veteran starters. Experience takes time and the oline needs to improve, but don't blame them for what they can't control.

Maybe they can do what a lot of other teams do particularity the bigger schools and have the center move his head side ways indicating he is going to snap it right after he twists his head... Just a suggestion

[DjKyRo]

This is coming from a guy who played free safety in high school and knows next to jack about O-line pickups and whatnot - in the opinion of some of the more knowledgeable posters, how much of what we saw Saturday is a one-time thing/not reflective of our O-line's actual skill? I know we're young, but could there be a significant improvement in the next week beingst we're at home?

As for the QB issues, would a QB change be necessary? Is pocket presence something a QB can learn quickly or is it more like one of those "intangibles" that a guy either has or doesn't have? I'm a limited football mind schematics/intangibles-wise so try to use two-syllable words. :)

[WYOBISONMAN]

Dj.......stop asking legit questions. We are supposed to be in a state of total meltdown. Fire the coach........Fire the AD.........Fire Bresciani........Fire Jose.......Fire Vigen........Hell, we probably better Fire Dave Wittrock because as Dean of the Grad School he must be mixed up in this shit somehow! By god lets get a firing squad!!! This is the end of NDSU as we know it!!!!;)

(Note.......sarcasm)

[Herd80]

Dj.......stop asking legit questions. We are supposed to be in a state of total meltdown. Fire the coach........Fire the AD.........Fire Bresciani........Fire Jose.......Fire Vigen........Hell, we probably better Fire Dave Wittrock because as Dean of the Grad School he must be mixed up in this shit somehow! By god lets get a firing squad!!! This is the end of NDSU as we know it!!!!;)

(Note.......sarcasm)

It's a damn good thing you put the sarcasm disclaimer on here...you could fan the flames of the meltdown.

Don't most coaches work with their teams regarding not getting too high or too low from week to week. Wouldn't this be a good strategy for fans...and especially fan chat boards? I vote for distribution of blood pressure cuffs for our most critical fans, or valium. Or beer.

Geez, we are two games into a rebuilding season.

[56BISON73]

This is coming from a guy who played free safety in high school and knows next to jack about O-line pickups and whatnot - in the opinion of some of the more knowledgeable posters, how much of what we saw Saturday is a one-time thing/not reflective of our O-line's actual skill? I know we're young, but could there be a significant improvement in the next week beingst we're at home?

As for the QB issues, would a QB change be necessary? Is pocket presence something a QB can learn quickly or is it more like one of those "intangibles" that a guy either has or doesn't have? I'm a limited football mind schematics/intangibles-wise so try to use two-syllable words. :)

Playing UNI was a one time thing---thank god. They were extremely fast and out physicalled us. They had the O-line on its heels all night. The O-line can only get better. The more reps the young kids get the better they will become. When the O-line turns the corner and comes together it will be like night and day. You will be wondering???what happened to the old line????

If the O-line gets better the QB play will get better. So will the running game. It all goes hand in hand.

[56BISON73]

It's a damn good thing you put the sarcasm disclaimer on here...you could fan the flames of the meltdown.

Don't most coaches work with their teams regarding not getting too high or too low from week to week. Wouldn't this be a good strategy for fans...and especially fan chat boards? I vote for distribution of blood pressure cuffs for our most critical fans, or valium. Or beer.

Geez, we are two games into a rebuilding season.

The KS game made some forget that fact.

[tony]

The KS game made some forget that fact.

If NDSU had won this last one, I guarantee there'd have been multiple threads predicting gloomily that Minnesota is sure to hire Coach Bohl away.

[EndZoneQB]

Playing UNI was a one time thing---thank god. They were extremely fast and out physicalled us. They had the O-line on its heels all night. The O-line can only get better. The more reps the young kids get the better they will become. When the O-line turns the corner and comes together it will be like night and day. You will be wondering???what happened to the old line????

If the O-line gets better the QB play will get better. So will the running game. It all goes hand in hand.

Plus, like others have said on here, sometimes its good to get your a** kicked up and down the field for 4 quarters. It's like a near death experience...kind of wakes you up and gets your attention. I guarantee if we played this game again, we'd be more ready to pop someone in the mouth.

[56BISON73]

If NDSU had won this last one, I guarantee there'd have been multiple threads predicting gloomily that Minnesota is sure to hire Coach Bohl away.

If you remember it wasnt too long ago there was a depressive state on BV that Bohl was going to be hired away by another school and how could we possibly replace him.

[WYOBISONMAN]

If you remember it wasnt too long ago there was a depressive state on BV that Bohl was going to be hired away by another school and how could we possibly replace him.

How short memories are.........

[TransAmBison]

It's a damn good thing you put the sarcasm disclaimer on here...you could fan the flames of the meltdown.

Don't most coaches work with their teams regarding not getting too high or too low from week to week. Wouldn't this be a good strategy for fans...and especially fan chat boards? I vote for distribution of blood pressure cuffs for our most critical fans, or valium. Or beer.

Geez, we are two games into a rebuilding season.
Actually, I think we are 24 games into a rebuilding era. I don't really understand two of the camps out there right now. On one side we have the camp saying the sky is falling, all is lost. On the other side we have those that say it is only game 2, give them time. I'm not a big Bohl supporter, but he did bring home a win agains Kansas and that is a big deal. Now, if the offense shows no improvement at home against Morgan, I think there will only be one camp left unless they fill up to capacity at the other.

The truth lies somewhere in the middle of all this. The o-line is banged up...but why do we not have more o-linemen? I don't remember this being such an issue when we were D-II with less scholies. I could be wrong...I think I was once before. Anyway, the coaches just do not appear to be thinking on their feet and maximizing talents and minimizing weaknesses. At least not 24 games into a rebuilding era.

Now, we only lost by 7 with all the problems we had...so there have to be positives in this as well. One positive...we don't have UNI's commentary crew.

I do expect improvement on offense this week...but sadly not as much as I would like. What I am hoping for is a bit if fire on offense in two weeks. I EXPECT to see drives that just march the field as if there were no opposition when we play South Dakota. I expect the o-line to have a chip on their shoulders and to carry the weight of the team. I expect that to be the game that defines the rest of the season. Mark it down. TAB is calling his shot. Every game after will mirror what we do to South Dakota.

[runtheoption]

Geez, we are two games into a rebuilding season.

How much longer do we have to rebuild? 4 seasons? 5? Like TAB said, we are 24 games into our rebuild now.

[Hammersmith]

Question: From what I understand, the benching of Lund(injury?) caused the shifting around of the O-line. Did that happen at the beginning of the season, or between Kansas & UNI? In other words, did the O-line have the preseason to adjust to their new positions, or just a day or three? If it's the latter, then DUH!!! We're obviously going to have a bad game. You take a young line that barely knows their regular assignments, then have them move and take all new ones?!? If we had a line filled with 3rd-5th years veterans, then maybe they could've pulled it off against a fast, swarming D. But not a line filled with tFR, rFR & So. We're asking way too much of them. What we saw was a worst-case scenario come to life.

Now if you want to blame the coaching staff for its recruiting and retention issues, I won't disagree(it's what got us to this point). But there's very little else we can learn from the offensive side of the UNI game. I've come to believe(like many of you) that we have a QB coaching problem. But I also believe that you could've had a Frankenstein creation of Montana, Favre, Manning(s), Brady and a dozen others, and he still wouldn't have done much better. The Cowboy/Skins game last night reminded me of Sat. The Dallas playbook was altered to remove the deep pass because they didn't trust the O-line to contain the pass rush for more than 3 seconds. Things worked out as well for Dallas as they did for us.

An inexperienced O-line is an inexperienced O-line no matter how you cut it. There is no magic wand to wave, no super pill they can swallow that will fix the problem in a week or two. They need time to learn their positions. More than that, they need time to internalize* them. Regardless of what happens to Lund, our O-line will be better this week. Either Lund will be back and everybody will shift back to their regular positions, or Lund will still be gone but the line will have had another week to start to gel. The core problem will not truly be fixed for a couple more years(assuming we don't go back to our poor retention ways), but there should be some improvement. Once the line stabilizes, then we can see how the running game and QB play fares.



*Internalize: Education term used to describe the step beyond simple knowledge. If someone asks you a question and you have to think for a moment or two before coming up with the correct answer, then you know the subject. If you can answer without any delay whatsoever, then you've internalized it. Critical to O-line because they only have from the snap to contact to realize what the defense is doing. If it takes them a second to figure it out, it's too late.



On a side note, can I order one decapitation to go? I've had a head cold since early Sat morning and I'd really like to get rid of it. Head colds turn me into TAB's (or was it Tatanka's?) favorite person from RA Life with the world's biggest case of PMS on top of it. It was just the frame of mind I needed to be in to watch the UNI game and the aftermath on here. [/sarcasm] So don't cross me!! I mean it! I'll take your pansyasses down! I will accept peace offerings of Nyquil, booze, and homemade chicken soup, however.

[Bison bison]

Lund got a concussion.

[Hammersmith]

Lund got a concussion.

Thanks. I put up with the UNI announcers for too long before switching to radio and missed just about all of the explanation.

[BadlandsBison]

UNI has an inexperienced o-line:hide:

[Hammersmith]

UNI has an inexperienced o-line:hide:

And there were many times we were penetrating it as much as they did us. The difference is that they run elements of a spread offense which encourages the QB to break out and run, while we run a version of the WCO which encourages the QB to stay in the pocket. We need a solid O-line far more than they do.

[buffalobob]

UNI has an inexperienced o-line:hide:

UNI's o-line could hear the snapcount. They didn't have wait for our defense to move before they could. HUGE difference. Plus did you observe their qb play?

[Hammersmith]

UNI's o-line could hear the snapcount. They didn't have wait for our defense to move before they could. HUGE difference. Plus did you observe their qb play?

^^This too.

[bisonmike2]

I saw the lowlights on the Craig Bohl Football show. Disclaimer: the only actual footage I've seen of the game. There are people complaining about Mohler's lack of pocket presence. In the lowlights, I didn't see anything that would resemble a pocket for him to have a presence in. Not sure if it was like that the whole game or not, but it looked like the dude was running for his life on every play. And in one instance he was actually sacked by his own lineman. Somebody said he needs to step up into the pocket and he was stepping to the side. Well that's true, because from what I saw, if he would have stepped up he would have ran into his lineman that were being blow off the ball by the UNI D line. It would have been interesting to see any sort of help from the line at all. I feel that Jose probably couldn't have gotten that extra 7 points to tie it up if the line would have just slowed down UNI a little.

[buffalobob]

I saw the lowlights on the Craig Bohl Football show. Disclaimer: the only actual footage I've seen of the game. There are people complaining about Mohler's lack of pocket presence. In the lowlights, I didn't see anything that would resemble a pocket for him to have a presence in. Not sure if it was like that the whole game or not, but it looked like the dude was running for his life on every play. And in one instance he was actually sacked by his own lineman. Somebody said he needs to step up into the pocket and he was stepping to the side. Well that's true, because from what I saw, if he would have stepped up he would have ran into his lineman that were being blow off the ball by the UNI D line. It would have been interesting to see any sort of help from the line at all. I feel that Jose probably couldn't have gotten that extra 7 points to tie it up if the line would have just slowed down UNI a little.

Judging the o-line & QB's play from a few highlights is like voting for a politician based on the tv commercials. That's EXACTLY my point. Making negative comments on a player's performance when you don't know the assignments of each player.

[bisonmike2]

Judging the o-line & QB's play from a few highlights is like voting for a politician based on the tv commercials. That's EXACTLY my point. Making negative comments on a player's performance when you don't know the assignments of each player.

I disclosed that I only saw the lowlights. I wasn't hiding that fact.

[Bison"FANatic"]

I disclosed that I only saw the lowlights. I wasn't hiding that fact.

Even Bohl said though "that one was a physical whooping to our offensive line upfront" on the Sunday show.

[bisonmike2]

Even Bohl said though "that one was a physical whooping to our offensive line upfront" on the Sunday show.

And I also listened to the entire game on the radio and gathered that opinion from them also. Pretty easy to do when every time the Bison passed Scotty's call was the same, "Mohler drops back to pass, he's force out of the pocket under pressure.."

And Buffalo Bob, I can tell by the political ads on TV that all politicians are worthless.