Fargo in the next 10 years??

[TheBisonator]

I was thinking about this: What kind of big construction project would you like to see happen in Fargo-Moorhead in the next 10 years?? Assuming the economy gets better, F-M could really start to take off, and it would be nice to see stuff being built that reflects that. Let's limit this to not being about NDSU/FBS. Maybe something like a huge new waterpark, or a BRT line, for example.

I personally would like to see another high rise building built downtown. And don't give me the soft soil excuse. It can be done downtown with enough money and investor's willingness to do it. It would just cost more money. I would like to personally see 5-6 stories of retail/residential on the corner of Broadway where the old US Bank Plaza is, and then build maybe a 12 story condo tower on top of that 5-6 floors of mixed-use. I would also like to see a new multiplex theatre downtown, like a 12-screen cinema. Also a couple new parking ramps downtown to take care of anyone complaining about parking. I'd also like to see either a southward extension of West Acres on the east side of the mall, or just build a second large mall (maybe 120 stores, 1 million sq. ft.) in the metro either in Moorhead ("East Acres") or somewhere in far south Fargo ("South Acres"??)

I would also like to see Urban Plains get completely built-in, with Brandt Crossing to the south built up as well. I see a place like the Fountains at Arbor Lakes in Maple Grove, MN and think that it would be a good model for something like Brandt Crossing, or the new Mercantile. I hope with 45th Street completed south of I-94 all the way past 52nd, that far-south 45th St. will boom like crazy. Again, it also depends on how well the economy does. With a good economy, I think the F-M metro has the potential to go from ~205,000 in 2010 to 300,000 people in 2020.

Your wishes for the next 10 years??

[MNLonghorn10]

some what more of a skyline.

the 3 buildings now just aint cutting it.

oh, and a whataburger :)

[roadwarrior]

Outback Steakhouse.

[TheBisonator]

Outback Steakhouse.

YES. Replace the one we used to have, but closed in 2007.

[bisonmike2]

High speed access to downtown Fargo. Going 30 mph on Main ave and hitting every fricking stop light sucks ass. Maybe a northern loop I-94 by-pass. It won't ever happen but it would also be nice to have an interstate by-pass that leads downtown. Sioux Falls has 229 that has exits going right into downtown.

[TheBisonator]

High speed access to downtown Fargo. Going 30 mph on Main ave and hitting every fricking stop light sucks ass. Maybe a northern loop I-94 by-pass. It won't ever happen but it would also be nice to have an interstate by-pass that leads downtown. Sioux Falls has 229 that has exits going right into downtown.

SF's 229 doesn't go by their downtown. It just loops around part of the city.

I once attended an FM MetroCOG meeting where they were discussing a potential future "Interstate 429" looping around the whole city.

[bisonmike2]

SF's 229 doesn't go by their downtown. It just loops around part of the city.

I once attended an FM MetroCOG meeting where they were discussing a potential future "Interstate 429" looping around the whole city.

So not right through the downtown but right to the western edge of downtown. It makes it very handy getting downtown from the south part of town. I know because I lived south of the empire and took it to work (10th st exit I think). Other wise you have to take 12th or 6th which both sucked major ass at the time.

[ndsubison1]

i agree with longhorn. a nice unique, mini skyline. kinda similar to a cedar rapids or lincoln, neb

[SDSUAlum08]

High speed access to downtown Fargo. Going 30 mph on Main ave and hitting every fricking stop light sucks ass. Maybe a northern loop I-94 by-pass. It won't ever happen but it would also be nice to have an interstate by-pass that leads downtown. Sioux Falls has 229 that has exits going right into downtown.


Bisonator,

He meant that 229 has exits going from interstate to downtown.

Continue on. :p

[Bison"FANatic"]

I will preface this with I go downtown now very little. One reason is I hate parking. So Parking would have to be expanded on the blocks off Broadway and at the ends of the well I will call it the "Fargo District".

I would like to see our downtown turned into what they did in Rock Island Illinois. The area is called "the District" and it is about 4 blocks long. Basically you take Broadway shut it down to traffic. Cobblestone the whole thing and basically make a urban park out of it. During the day you have all the businesses and business traffic with easy access by walking where ever to restaurants and other shops and in the evenings the bars that are there and pop up once its built turns it into a hot spot at night. Down in Rock Island they have something most weekends. They have a "Maka My Weekend" that was Reggae music and it was huge. Different themes for different weekends and turn downtown into a real destination and not just a road with side walk and a few bars.

Shopping was also nice because you could just walk across the old street area anywhere and walk back and forth to stores or restaurants without having to find a cross walk.

Bar hopping in the evening was great because you could walk to all of them and could hit a microbrew then a laid back relaxing type bar and then cross the street and hit the dance club. Throw in a little country at a country bar if you wanted.

[Tatanka]

[QUOTE=Bison"FANatic";376926]Basically you take Broadway shut it down to traffic. Cobblestone the whole thing and basically make a urban park out of it. During the day you have all the businesses and business traffic with easy access by walking where ever to restaurants and other shops and in the evenings the bars that are there and pop up once its built turns it into a hot spot at night. QUOTE]

They've already tried that once in the last 10 years and it was an epic fail.

[roadwarrior]

Not sure what all the problem is with parking downtown. I drove the length of Broadway downtown shortly after noon today, and there were at least 30 open parking spots on Broadway itself.

[tony]

I may have mentioned this before :)

North Dakota's three major problems: Demographics, water, and boom/bust economy.

Water: I think the big one for Fargo is water. The area needs flood protection via a diversion and a water supply system that can survive an extended period of drought. I know they talked about bringing Lake Sakakawea water. If that happens, it'd be kind of cool if that same system could also be used to stabilize the level of Devils Lake (in conjunction with a meaningful outlet) because, as somebody pointed out in a letter to the paper recently, when the water level finally drops in Devils Lake, the concentration of salts and whatnot will increase and it could be pretty nasty.

Demographics & Boom/Bust Economy: It'd have been nice if the state would pony up to build some classroom and dorm space at NDSU rather than turning kids away who would otherwise become future residents and tax payers and support industries that would diversify the economy.

[EndZoneQB]

High speed access to downtown Fargo. Going 30 mph on Main ave and hitting every fricking stop light sucks ass. Maybe a northern loop I-94 by-pass. It won't ever happen but it would also be nice to have an interstate by-pass that leads downtown. Sioux Falls has 229 that has exits going right into downtown.

This. I deal with this daily, and it's almost impossible to get through town during the day. If it's during rush hour, you might as well grab a snickers because you'll get 2-3 trains and drivers that feel the need to not use the gas pedal to accelerate to 20mph. The lights on Main Avenue are really badly timed downtown too...if it's after ~7pm I can make it from 9th st E in WF to 8th st in Fargo in about 5 mins because the lights are timed, but I don't think anyone even realizes it because we are always driving 30-35 in the morning or afternoon.

[TheBisonator]

This. I deal with this daily, and it's almost impossible to get through town during the day. If it's during rush hour, you might as well grab a snickers because you'll get 2-3 trains and drivers that feel the need to not use the gas pedal to accelerate to 20mph. The lights on Main Avenue are really badly timed downtown too...if it's after ~7pm I can make it from 9th st E in WF to 8th st in Fargo in about 5 mins because the lights are timed, but I don't think anyone even realizes it because we are always driving 30-35 in the morning or afternoon.

The problem with an interstate spur into downtown would be, where would you put it??

I would like to see a railroad overpass built through the centre of the city, so that drivers can just go under the 20+ trains daily that come in from China and the east coast.

[Bison"FANatic"]

Not sure what all the problem is with parking downtown. I drove the length of Broadway downtown shortly after noon today, and there were at least 30 open parking spots on Broadway itself.

That is not the norm though. My wife used to work downtown and I have a bunch of friends that work there now and they all complain or complained about the parking. I went down there for lunch a few weeks ago and parking was very slim pickings and it took me 10 minutes to find a spot.

[Tatanka]

I may have mentioned this before :)

North Dakota's three major problems: Demographics, water, and boom/bust economy.

Water: I think the big one for Fargo is water. The area needs flood protection via a diversion and a water supply system that can survive an extended period of drought. I know they talked about bringing Lake Sakakawea water. If that happens, it'd be kind of cool if that same system could also be used to stabilize the level of Devils Lake (in conjunction with a meaningful outlet) because, as somebody pointed out in a letter to the paper recently, when the water level finally drops in Devils Lake, the concentration of salts and whatnot will increase and it could be pretty nasty.

Demographics & Boom/Bust Economy: It'd have been nice if the state would pony up to build some classroom and dorm space at NDSU rather than turning kids away who would otherwise become future residents and tax payers and support industries that would diversify the economy.

Good call x2.

It's sad that Higher Ed in North Dakota has such a big case of TPS (Tall Poppy Syndrome) when it comes to NDSU. Even more disgusting is the fact that it is perpetuated by (and promoted by) the SBoHE.

[ndsubison1]

Build a downtown parking garage like Bismarck has

[bisonaudit]

Until I see Fargo on this list (which won't happen in the next 10 years) wish list items designed to reduce congestion or travel times should get zero consideration.

Here are all 10 of the worst cities for traffic as put together by Forbes Magazine.

Top 10 Cities With The Worst Traffic:

Washington D.C.
Atlanta, GA
Los Angeles, CA
San Francisco, CA
Houston, TX
New York, NY
Riverside – San Bernardino, CA
Chicago, IL
Dallas, TX
Boston, MA.

I live and work in the worst traffic city in the nation. Here's the deal. It doesn't matter where you live or what sort of congestion you have to put up with. It sucks. Whether its a piece of farm equipment on a two lane rural highway or someone blocking the box and stopping traffic in all 4 directions, no matter where you live, it always takes longer to get somewhere than you think it should. If you make it easier to get someplace, more people will go there, the system finds its own equalibrium. Final victory can only be achieved through surrender.

If you think downtown is a winner and you want to share it with more people, than that's a reason to improve roads but don't delude yourself into thinking that you'll get there any faster, you'll just have more company.

Also, parking garages are just ugly. For god sake build something that's plesant and/or interesting to look at. It'll make sitting in "traffic" more tolerable.

[Tatanka]

Build a downtown parking garage like Bismarck has

Public or private?

[Bison"FANatic"]

[QUOTE=Bison"FANatic";376926]Basically you take Broadway shut it down to traffic. Cobblestone the whole thing and basically make a urban park out of it. During the day you have all the businesses and business traffic with easy access by walking where ever to restaurants and other shops and in the evenings the bars that are there and pop up once its built turns it into a hot spot at night. QUOTE]

They've already tried that once in the last 10 years and it was an epic fail.

If they are going to do stuff half ass down town they are going to get half ass results. You can put lip stick on a pig but it is still a pig. Now if you change the atmosphere around the pig then it becomes a whole other animal. The street fair proves that if you give people some good entertainment and something to do they will show up to downtown Fargo (alot of times in 95+ heat). It would take some time but they could turn downtown into a place more people want to go.

If you are ever down towards the Quad cities swing by and check out "The District" it is worth it.

[TheBisonator]

Also, parking garages are just ugly.

They're a hell of a lot prettier than parking lots.

[Bison bison]

Ride the bus!

[NorthernBison]

Diversification is the key to Fargo's future growth. Right now, I see the community as becoming very top heavy in service industry and amenities. Heck, most of the comments so far have dealt with stuff that has nothing to do with generating new dollars for the community. Just making it nicer for the residents. That is nice but not the prescription for future growth.

Areas that pose strong potential are:
1. Medical - well on the way with talk of new Sanford hospital with plenty of room to piggyback other growth alongside it.
2. Agriculture - ACSC is a driver in the Valley. Way bigger than most realize. There is room for more Ag Processing and distribution.
3. NDSU - The State SHOULD be putting more dollars into the University at the expense of some other small dying schools around the State. The potential for growth is huge.
4. Light manufacturing - Wind towers, CNH Plant, etc already exist. What else is possible?

Danger signs I see in Fargo include the inability to create development without large taxpayer input. Two recent examples are UP which had to be given to the Park District to keep it alive and Trollwood which is a direct obligation of the Fargo School District. Both are medium size developments that private investors could not handle. That's a bit scary.

[bisonaudit]

They're a hell of a lot prettier than parking lots.

True but not a very inspiring reason to include on a list of things one wants to see.

One doesn't want to eat haggis simply because it tastes better than lutefisk.

[tony]

True but not a very inspiring reason to include on a list of things one wants to see.

One doesn't want to eat haggis simply because it tastes better than lutefisk.

Parking ramps don't look too bad when the first story is used for businesses.

[bisonmike2]

The problem with an interstate spur into downtown would be, where would you put it??

I would like to see a railroad overpass built through the centre of the city, so that drivers can just go under the 20+ trains daily that come in from China and the east coast.

That's just it. There's no place to put an interstate spur. Not without making it an elevated highway that followed the river. It would be ugly and out of place and mega expensive, therefore it will never get done.

As far as the railroad thing, They should just build a railroad bypass that goes around Fargo. How many trains really need to go through downtown Fargo? Case needs a train, Mid-American Steel, O'day, Amtrak. That's all I can think of. Otherwise they should have a bypass starting at that fuel depot in Dilworth. Have tracks go either north or south around Fargo/Moorhead. Does every single train need to go through downtown? Probably not.

[The_Sicatoka]

I may have mentioned this before :)

Water: I think the big one for Fargo is water. The area needs flood protection via a diversion and a water supply system that can survive an extended period of drought.

Hold your calls. We have a winner.

And any drought solution will positively impact all of the RRV.

[Bisonguy]

Not sure what all the problem is with parking downtown. I drove the length of Broadway downtown shortly after noon today, and there were at least 30 open parking spots on Broadway itself.


I saw at least 12 spots open all day long on 3rd avenue just off of Broadway today.

It's amazing that someone will complain if they can't find a parking spot 30 feet from the door of a restaurantor business downtown, but will glady park 200 feet from the entrance of West Acres and be happy about it.

[EndZoneQB]

That's just it. There's no place to put an interstate spur. Not without making it an elevated highway that followed the river. It would be ugly and out of place and mega expensive, therefore it will never get done.


Which brings me to: WTF was this area thinking by placing the interstate south and west of downtown when they were coming through?? UGH!

On another note, you could maybe follow that drainage ditch by 12th ave or whatever. I remember someone on like city-data or skyscraper forums that diagrammed one going and connecting with 10th and uni directly( I think), much like 94 and 394 in Minne.

[The_Sicatoka]

... if they can't find a parking spot 30 feet from the door of ...

I enjoy listening to people who complain about parking anywhere and then drive to the gym to walk on a treadmill.

[MHDBisonfan]

SKYLINE! With a few more buildings on both sides of the river, we could get our skyline to look like this other midwestern mid-size (well, getting big now) town:

http://www.unmc.edu/ihs/images/OmahaSkyline3photo.jpg

Bonus points if you can guess the city :) (withhout cheating by doing a "save as")

[NorthernBison]

They started a project to ensure water to Fargo back in the 60's (Garrison Diversion). It still isn't finished. As a matter of fact, that project also included a secondary canal to stabilize Devils Lake (New Rockford Canal) which is basically finished but never connected.

Right now, a plan to take water from Pelican Lake to the Sheyenne is being studied again. It would take the best water from Devils Lake so would do nothing for Devils Lake water quality but would be better quality water for downstream users. There is a real question of how much additional water the Sheyenne can handle.

[EndZoneQB]

I'm going with Omaha or Little Rock.

Edit: Do you guys remember where the UP Center was SUPPOSED to be? Someone offered to build an arena downtown, that would have housed NDSU basketball as well. NDSU didn't want to do that(I don't know details), but it basically caused the plan to fall apart. It would have put the UP Center downtown, had mixed commerical and a 12story condo/apartment complex that seriously took up like 3 blocks it looked like. Instead they built that 5 story building on 1st ave no. I think the big arena/condo was supposed to be placed where those run down shops and stuff are at on NP Ave right by Stop N Go or whatever. I think it was Brandt still was it not?

[Bison"FANatic"]

Isn't Canada the problem with all of the bringing water to the Red River Valley. They are very against intermixing basins. Heck we have been in court with them for a long time now over it.

[Bisonguy]

I'm going with Omaha or Little Rock.

Edit: Do you guys remember where the UP Center was SUPPOSED to be? Someone offered to build an arena downtown, that would have housed NDSU basketball as well. NDSU didn't want to do that(I don't know details), but it basically caused the plan to fall apart. It would have put the UP Center downtown, had mixed commerical and a 12story condo/apartment complex that seriously took up like 3 blocks it looked like. Instead they built that 5 story building on 1st ave no. I think the big arena/condo was supposed to be placed where those run down shops and stuff are at on NP Ave right by Stop N Go or whatever. I think it was Brandt still was it not?


Yeah, it was Brandt, but the taxpayers voted against having to pay for it.

[bisonmike2]

I'm going with Omaha or Little Rock.

Edit: Do you guys remember where the UP Center was SUPPOSED to be? Someone offered to build an arena downtown, that would have housed NDSU basketball as well. NDSU didn't want to do that(I don't know details), but it basically caused the plan to fall apart. It would have put the UP Center downtown, had mixed commerical and a 12story condo/apartment complex that seriously took up like 3 blocks it looked like. Instead they built that 5 story building on 1st ave no. I think the big arena/condo was supposed to be placed where those run down shops and stuff are at on NP Ave right by Stop N Go or whatever. I think it was Brandt still was it not?

I remember that downtown UP center proposal. I voted for it, but 90% of Fargo didn't. It would have been awesome, minus the congestion problems that would have come up with 8,000 people trying to get into and out of downtown . I remember they had a sign up that said "Coming Soon: City Center Spring 2005!" And that they had that up well into 2007.

[Tatanka]

SKYLINE! With a few more buildings on both sides of the river, we could get our skyline to look like this other midwestern mid-size (well, getting big now) town:

http://www.unmc.edu/ihs/images/OmahaSkyline3photo.jpg

Bonus points if you can guess the city :) (withhout cheating by doing a "save as")

Dude. The Qwest building gives it away. Omaha, NE.

[EndZoneQB]

Yeah, it was Brandt, but the taxpayers voted against having to pay for it.

Dumb.


I remember that downtown UP center proposal. I voted for it, but 90% of Fargo didn't. It would have been awesome, minus the congestion problems that would have come up with 8,000 people trying to get into and out of downtown . I remember they had a sign up that said "Coming Soon: City Center Spring 2005!" And that they had that up well into 2007.

Yeah, that would have been HUGE for downtown. All the bar traffic before the games, residential traffic, etc would have made downtown blow up even more than it is now. Congestion would have been a fair trade off IMO. More reason to hang out at a bar/restaurant after games until traffic dies down!

[Bisonguy]

I remember that downtown UP center proposal. I voted for it, but 90% of Fargo didn't. It would have been awesome, minus the congestion problems that would have come up with 8,000 people trying to get into and out of downtown . I remember they had a sign up that said "Coming Soon: City Center Spring 2005!" And that they had that up well into 2007.


It was a poorly conceived concept, and there was never a definite direction for what they wanted to build and have the taxpayers foot the bill for. "It's for the kids", "We could get a minor league hockey team", "It could be the home for NDSU basketball", "It will seat 8,000", "It will seat 4,500", etc. etc...........

[Bison bison]

It was a poorly conceived concept, and there was never a definite direction for what they wanted to build and have the taxpayers foot the bill for. "It's for the kids", "We could get a minor league hockey team", "It could be the home for NDSU basketball", "It will seat 8,000", "It will seat 4,500", etc. etc...........

So it's a version of the same scam they PULLED OFF with the UP.

[OrygunBison]

Until I see Fargo on this list (which won't happen in the next 10 years) wish list items designed to reduce congestion or travel times should get zero consideration.

Here are all 10 of the worst cities for traffic as put together by Forbes Magazine.

Top 10 Cities With The Worst Traffic:

Washington D.C.
Atlanta, GA
Los Angeles, CA
San Francisco, CA
Houston, TX
New York, NY
Riverside – San Bernardino, CA
Chicago, IL
Dallas, TX
Boston, MA.

I live and work in the worst traffic city in the nation. Here's the deal. It doesn't matter where you live or what sort of congestion you have to put up with. It sucks. Whether its a piece of farm equipment on a two lane rural highway or someone blocking the box and stopping traffic in all 4 directions, no matter where you live, it always takes longer to get somewhere than you think it should. If you make it easier to get someplace, more people will go there, the system finds its own equalibrium. Final victory can only be achieved through surrender.

If you think downtown is a winner and you want to share it with more people, than that's a reason to improve roads but don't delude yourself into thinking that you'll get there any faster, you'll just have more company.

Also, parking garages are just ugly. For god sake build something that's plesant and/or interesting to look at. It'll make sitting in "traffic" more tolerable.

I agree strongly with all but the last paragraph. For that, you only need to make sure to include a design budget. As an architect that has designed several nice parking structures in urban areas, I know that it can be done. The best urban garages have retail on the ground floor with only an entry/exit ramp visible at that level. Many of these structures are designed by engineer-types and that is why they suck. They need a vision just like all good buildings do. They are most certainly not just stack slabs of parking. They are often the "front door" to our downtowns.

My most recent parking structure has 25,000 s.f. of retail on the ground floor, a basement level of parking, 3 upper levels of parking and the structural capacity to build some future commercial (either a hotel or residential) above. The design is very contemporary. The client considers it a 70-year building...which is important since most people think of their buildings as disposable anymore.

[tony]

I agree strongly with all but the last paragraph. For that, you only need to make sure to include a design budget. As an architect that has designed several nice parking structures in urban areas, I know that it can be done. The best urban garages have retail on the ground floor with only an entry/exit ramp visible at that level. Many of these structures are designed by engineer-types and that is why they suck. They need a vision just like all good buildings do. They are most certainly not just stack slabs of parking. They are often the "front door" to our downtowns.

My most recent parking structure has 25,000 s.f. of retail on the ground floor, a basement level of parking, 3 upper levels of parking and the structural capacity to build some future commercial (either a hotel or residential) above. The design is very contemporary. The client considers it a 70-year building...which is important since most people think of their buildings as disposable anymore.

Yeah, done right, you can build a parking ramp and the entrance is the only way you'd ever know it was there. Heck, I lived right next to a parking garage in Midtown and never even noticed it. The key is keeping street level friendly.

[Bisonguy]

So it's a version of the same scam they PULLED OFF with the UP.

Yup, but they were arrogant enough with the Cityscapes project to disclose that the taxpayers would foot $40 million for construction. UP used deception and sleight of hand to pull it off. :hide:

[bisonmike2]

It was a poorly conceived concept, and there was never a definite direction for what they wanted to build and have the taxpayers foot the bill for. "It's for the kids", "We could get a minor league hockey team", "It could be the home for NDSU basketball", "It will seat 8,000", "It will seat 4,500", etc. etc...........

I agree, I voted for it based on the knowledge that I was moving to Moorhead and wouldn't have to pay for it anyway. :) And it was a scam that they did to get the UP center built where it's currently at.

[EndZoneQB]

I agree, I voted for it based on the knowledge that I was moving to Moorhead and wouldn't have to pay for it anyway. :) And it was a scam that they did to get the UP center built where it's currently at.

Doesn't the whole Urban Plains thing go against everything Fargo has been trying to avoid in recent years(urban sprawl because of lack of planning in the previous 50 years)? That's what I never really understood...

[phpguru]

Which brings me to: WTF was this area thinking by placing the interstate south and west of downtown when they were coming through?? UGH!

On another note, you could maybe follow that drainage ditch by 12th ave or whatever. I remember someone on like city-data or skyscraper forums that diagrammed one going and connecting with 10th and uni directly( I think), much like 94 and 394 in Minne.

Are you referring to this one that NanoBison did a while back... (he seems to have abandoned the site)...

http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/2895/20060817downtowninterstateloopbigideaeo5.jpg

[EndZoneQB]

Are you referring to this one that NanoBison did a while back... (he seems to have abandoned the site)...

http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/2895/20060817downtowninterstateloopbigideaeo5.jpg

I think that's the one! haha

[North Side]

This really isn't a building project but I would like to see better signal strength for the digital channels. I pick them ups with rabbit ears and if the wind is great than 10 mph my picture always breaks up and even on a calm day I still can't get all the channels.

Also I would like to see HD news cast for WDAY and KVLY ect. I am sure the cameras are pricey but it be nice to watch Bison highlights in HD. I would think this is a possibility with in the next 10 years.

[onbison09]

Atlanta, GA
Los Angeles, CA
San Francisco, CA
Houston, TX
New York, NY
Riverside – San Bernardino, CA
Chicago, IL
Dallas, TX
Boston, MA.

.

Yuppers. Tollways aren't as bad but I-35 and other roads are brutal.

[ndsubison1]

After seriously thinking about this I would love to see more efficient and continued work on our infrastructure. I feel Tax dollars going towards improving roads is a good thing. I just wish it could be done more efficiently. 10th st. n was a wreck for quite awhile this past year.

No taxpayer money to rebuild or renovate unwanted buildings downtown or anywhere either.

Expand recycling technology. Maybe install an incinerator at the landfill that can also help generate sell able electricity. Curbside recycling?

Overturn the city smoking ban. Give the decision back to buisnesses.

Maybe more funding for public transportation. Just something that would make it more efficient. Any ideas?

[EndZoneQB]

This really isn't a building project but I would like to see better signal strength for the digital channels. I pick them ups with rabbit ears and if the wind is great than 10 mph my picture always breaks up and even on a calm day I still can't get all the channels.

Also I would like to see HD news cast for WDAY and KVLY ect. I am sure the cameras are pricey but it be nice to watch Bison highlights in HD. I would think this is a possibility with in the next 10 years.

I'm not sure about KVLY, but I KNOW WDAY has been shooting in HD for atleast 5 years. They just need some other piece of equipment that allows them to actually broadcast in HD. I can't remember what exactly they needed, but I guess it is an expensive piece.

[Bison bison]

It's called a flux capacitor.

My neighbor Doc Brown has a garage full of 'em.

[Bison bison]

In a magical world, I'd like to see an explosion downtown, growth or otherwise.

NDSU's Downtown campus is going to be a catalyst for this as is Sanford.

What's the third big piece?

//////

Also, I'd like to see a Fargo somthing. Something that draws tourists. Preferably something that impacts the skyline.

[lakesbison]

So im sitting in the VIP pool at Golden Nugget.

2 girls from LA are chillin, we start yapping. They say "sell me on Fargo"

im like ... hmmmm.. aahhh... yaaa.. we have no crime or traffic? and there's tree's and the lakes are 45 minutes aaway.


tough sell man.

[Bison bison]

fargo is an easy sell.

also, lakes you are lame.

The correct answer for your specific situation is,

"Well, it's really cold in the winter so we spend a lot of time perfecting our 'techniques'*. It gets a little old for me though, as I can only put something so big in so many places..."

[lakesbison]

well, i did tell them that kama sutra was born in fargo, and they bought that!

[tony]

Downtown skating rink that acts a piazza in warm weather with outdoor cafe seating.

Start an annual formula 1 style race for big wheels downtown. Time to make kids get some exercise, dang it! I tried to organize one of these in my subdivision in Lakeville, MN during a block party back in the 1990's. Sadly, even though the subdivision had the perfect road (a curvy loop with some small rises), the idea didn't get much traction. The rejection was so disappointing that I didn't even bother with my alternate proposal: A Ben Hur style race that would have featured black labs pulling kid-sized chariots (every other house had a black labrador - one really daring couple had a chocolate lab but I'm pretty sure they were ostracized.)

Build the country's two longest rollercoasters to connect the main and downtown campus, run it straight down 10th street with rises from campus corners - might have to put some bends in to get up past 8133 feet of length though. Commute time: Very short (have to be or the windchill would freeze peoples' eyes solid in the winter.)

Convert the top floor of a downtown building (Black Building?) into a pied-a-terre for when I'm in town. Or maybe construct a townhouse on top of an existing building. An infinity pool and private keyed elevator would make for some cool additions. I have permission to do this from the wife but there are certain conditions that I've yet to meet, one of which is winning a $100 million lottery jackpot.

[bisonmike2]

Downtown skating rink that acts a piazza in warm weather with outdoor cafe seating.

Start an annual formula 1 style race for big wheels downtown. Time to make kids get some exercise, dang it! I tried to organize one of these in my subdivision in Lakeville, MN during a block party back in the 1990's. Sadly, even though the subdivision had the perfect road (a curvy loop with some small rises), the idea didn't get much traction. The rejection was so disappointing that I didn't even bother with my alternate proposal: A Ben Hur style race that would have featured black labs pulling kid-sized chariots (every other house had a black labrador - one really daring couple had a chocolate lab but I'm pretty sure they were ostracized.)

Build the country's two longest rollercoasters to connect the main and downtown campus, run it straight down 10th street with rises from campus corners - might have to put some bends in to get up past 8133 feet of length though. Commute time: Very short (have to be or the windchill would freeze peoples' eyes solid in the winter.)

Convert the top floor of a downtown building (Black Building?) into a pied-a-terre for when I'm in town. Or maybe construct a townhouse on top of an existing building. An infinity pool and private keyed elevator would make for some cool additions. I have permission to do this from the wife but there are certain conditions that I've yet to meet, one of which is winning a $100 million lottery jackpot.

The skating rink is a great idea. It would be a nice attraction to bring people downtown. And I'm stealing the big wheel race idea. I think I can get that going in my neighborhood.

Instead of a roller coaster (which would be AWESOME!) I always wished they'd bring back the trolley cars. You see them in all the old pics of Fargo. Have a trolley car rail that would run between main campus and downtown. I think that would be cool. Students would use it, but I'm sure a lot of people would use it to just visit the campus.

[Bison bison]

I like the rink idea too.

[SDbison]

The skating rink is a great idea. It would be a nice attraction to bring people downtown. And I'm stealing the big wheel race idea. I think I can get that going in my neighborhood.

Instead of a roller coaster (which would be AWESOME!) I always wished they'd bring back the trolley cars. You see them in all the old pics of Fargo. Have a trolley car rail that would run between main campus and downtown. I think that would be cool. Students would use it, but I'm sure a lot of people would use it to just visit the campus.
A trolley car between main campus and downtown would be awesome.

[ndsubison1]

How about a river walk like Omaha has? Divert part of the red through downtown. Hell, doesnt Sioux Falls even have a river walk?

[mebisonII]

How about a river walk like Omaha has? Divert part of the red through downtown. Hell, doesnt Sioux Falls even have a river walk?

Not sure you'd sell anyone downtown on the idea of bringer water *CLOSER*. But hey, its good to dream ;)

[bisonmike2]

How about a river walk like Omaha has? Divert part of the red through downtown. Hell, doesnt Sioux Falls even have a river walk?

Technically Fargo has a "river walk" that goes through downtown nearly every spring. I don't think it's very popular though.

[ndsubison1]

thanks guys :rolleyes: :blush:

[Bison"FANatic"]

Technically Fargo has a "river walk" that goes through downtown nearly every spring. I don't think it's very popular though.

It would be popular though if they wouldn't throw you in jail for going down and lounging on the dike and enjoying the view.:smh: :smh: :smh: :smh: :smh: :smh: :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

[Tatanka]

It would popular though if they wouldn't throw you in jail for going down and lounging on the dike and enjoying the view.:smh: :smh: :smh: :smh: :smh: :smh: :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

This would work well if the grounds crew can keep the grass mowed and neatly trimmed.

[Hammersmith]

I wish there was a way to get enough control over the Red to get a San Antonio style river walk. With the dam higher up on the river and the flood gates, I think they can keep the water level within a foot or so. The result has to be one of the nicest river-fronts in the country. Do a Google image search to see for yourselves.


On a slightly more extravagant note, how about a few dozen miles of windbreaks that go up a hundred feet or so. I don't know about you guys, but I'm getting really sick of the windstorms we've already had this year. My tomatoes are sad, and my lilies were taken down to green stalks after the last one.

[tony]

I wish there was a way to get enough control over the Red to get a San Antonio style river walk. With the dam higher up on the river and the flood gates, I think they can keep the water level within a foot or so. The result has to be one of the nicest river-fronts in the country. Do a Google image search to see for yourselves.


Canals! Have to have locks too, of course, but if Amsterdam can have them several feet below sea level, Fargo can have them.

[EndZoneQB]

How about a river walk like Omaha has? Divert part of the red through downtown. Hell, doesnt Sioux Falls even have a river walk?

There used to be a swimming hole downtown that was part of the river.

[Bison"FANatic"]

I wish there was a way to get enough control over the Red to get a San Antonio style river walk. With the dam higher up on the river and the flood gates, I think they can keep the water level within a foot or so. The result has to be one of the nicest river-fronts in the country. Do a Google image search to see for yourselves.


On a slightly more extravagant note, how about a few dozen miles of windbreaks that go up a hundred feet or so. I don't know about you guys, but I'm getting really sick of the windstorms we've already had this year. My tomatoes are sad, and my lilies were taken down to green stalks after the last one.

The wind just did a terrible number on a few of my roses. :smh: :smh: :smh: :smh:

I know you can't have everything but could you imagine how nice the weather would be here if we didn't have that dang wind 90% of the time. I actually saw rain the other day that was coming straight down. I didn't know what was happening.

[EndZoneQB]

I think the one thing I hate more than anything in Fargo is the wind. It always seems to ruin a perfect day. It's one thing if its 15mph(which still sucks), but its quite another when its 25-30.

[bisonmike2]

I think the one thing I hate more than anything in Fargo is the wind. It always seems to ruin a perfect day. It's one thing if its 15mph(which still sucks), but its quite another when its 25-30.

Has there ever been a day in Fargo where the wind blows less than 25-30 mph?

[EndZoneQB]

Has there ever been a day in Fargo where the wind blows less than 25-30 mph?

Very valid question. I'm not sure haha

[NorthernBison]

Has there ever been a day in Fargo where the wind blows less than 25-30 mph?

The following site has a wealth of information:
www.ndawn.ndsu.nodak.edu/

If you click on Monthly Report on the right hand side and then select the station you want and Current Partial Month all your questions will be answered.

[Tatanka]

Canals! Have to have locks too, of course, but if Amsterdam can have them several feet below sea level, Fargo can have them.

I thought you said camels. Then we'd have more UND alumni buzzing about town trying to own them.

[bisonmike2]

The following site has a wealth of information:
www.ndawn.ndsu.nodak.edu/

If you click on Monthly Report on the right hand side and then select the station you want and Current Partial Month all your questions will be answered.

I call BS. I ran that report for the last complete year (yes I'm bored at work) and only 1 day in all of 2009 averaged more than 20 mph. 1 day! Either I'm blind and I missed about 364 days on that chart or it's off big time.

Seriously, I lived there for 7 years, I swear the wind never stopped blowing.

[NorthernBison]

I call BS. I ran that report for the last complete year (yes I'm bored at work) and only 1 day in all of 2009 averaged more than 20 mph. 1 day! Either I'm blind and I missed about 364 days on that chart or it's off big time.

Seriously, I lived there for 7 years, I swear the wind never stopped blowing.

Holy Crap! Talk about setting your sights too high. AVERAGING 20mph during a 24 hour period? Forget that. That's really windy even for here.

Look at max wind speeds. You will see that June has been quite windy this year. I'm not bored enough to check it against historical averages.

[Bison bison]

What you need to do is estimate a Weibull distribution. ;)

[Bison"FANatic"]

What you need to do is estimate a Weibull distribution. ;)

check the dining halls................. oops wrong spelling

[Tatanka]

What you need to do is estimate a Weibull distribution. ;)

TAB excels at this, from what I've heard. Personally, I estimate it as (incoming weight) + 25.

[Herd Mentality]

I'd love to see road construction that makes sense. It's been horrendous getting around town the last few years because alternative routes are under construction the same time the main ones are.

If my world was perfect, we'd move the Flying J and Petro way the f--- out of town. Petro if I only get to pick one.

Earlier I see someone mentioned curbside recycling. Fargo went to volume-based collection with curbside recylcing last fall. (finally)

[TransAmBison]

[quote=Tatanka;376928]

If they are going to do stuff half ass down town they are going to get half ass results. You can put lip stick on a pig but it is still a pig. Now if you change the atmosphere around the pig then it becomes a whole other animal. The street fair proves that if you give people some good entertainment and something to do they will show up to downtown Fargo (alot of times in 95+ heat). It would take some time but they could turn downtown into a place more people want to go.

If you are ever down towards the Quad cities swing by and check out "The District" it is worth it.
You are talking about owning goats now, aren't you?

[roadwarrior]

If my world was perfect, we'd move the Flying J and Petro way the f--- out of town. Petro if I only get to pick one.


Speaking of truck stops, just wait until the new one under construction just across 32nd ave from Flying J opens. Double cluster*&^% at that intersection.

[Tatanka]

Speaking of truck stops, just wait until the new one under construction just across 32nd ave from Flying J opens. Double cluster*&^% at that intersection.

++ more so. :smh:

[duluthbison]

Speaking of truck stops, just wait until the new one under construction just across 32nd ave from Flying J opens. Double cluster*&^% at that intersection.

You're kidding.....right????:smh:

[ndsubison1]

Speaking of truck stops, just wait until the new one under construction just across 32nd ave from Flying J opens. Double cluster*&^% at that intersection.

unpossible!

[G-city Bison Fan]

I like the idea of a skating rink/piazza downtown. That totally makes the list. In no particular order.

1. Continued growth of NDSU/MSUM/Concordia as the drivers of youthful/well educated college town population.

2. A microbrewery/brewpub (or two, or three)

3. Focus on public transportation, trolley, bus, lightrail, parking, all of it.

4. Control the amount of urban sprawl and stop building so many damn strip malls.

5. Build up a bit, I do like the idea of a nicer skyline, maybe another nice office building and a few more condo's instead of a million cookie cutter apartment buildings.

6. Flood prevention, seriously.

7. Variety, in everything. Music, shopping, art, food, drink, everything. For the love of God can we stop buildng applesbees and get some damn variety.

[TbonZach]

Speaking of truck stops, just wait until the new one under construction just across 32nd ave from Flying J opens. Double cluster*&^% at that intersection.

No kidding. I thought it was hard enough getting around that area during rush hour.

[Flintstone]

Speaking of truck stops, just wait until the new one under construction just across 32nd ave from Flying J opens. Double cluster*&^% at that intersection.

Love's Travel Stop. They have a contractor from down south building it. They will get an education on a ND winter.

[MNLonghorn10]

well thankfully the only times i go to 32nd/29 is when im taking my dads truck in for an oil change @ sellands

[TheBisonator]

Fargo-Moorhead's 17th Subway restuarant will be located in the new Love's.

[sambini]

Sonic drive inns are here...

[Tatanka]

Sonic drive inns are here...

OK. Dude. Don't play me. Are you serious?

Oh, you're saying that in 10 years we should have a Sonic?

MUST KNOW!!!

[Bison bison]

What are you talking about, Tatanka?

Sonic has been open in West Fargo at the corner of 13th and 9th for like three months.

I kid

[TransAmBison]

What are you talking about, Tatanka?

Sonic has been open in West Fargo at the corner of 13th and 9th for like three months.

I kid
I just stopped there last night. Where you been Tatanka?

[Bison"FANatic"]

I drive by there every day. It has been nice to have another option out that way the last few months.

[Bisonguy]

OK. Dude. Don't play me. Are you serious?

Oh, you're saying that in 10 years we should have a Sonic?

MUST KNOW!!!


++++++++++++++

[Bison bison]

I just stopped there last night. Where you been Tatanka?

I was there too.

Actually, all this talk makes me think I'll head back over that way for lunch...

[TransAmBison]

I was there too.

Actually, all this talk makes me think I'll head back over that way for lunch...
I'll meet you there...say noon?

[Bison bison]

What the hell.

I'll buy lunch for any Bisonvillian who joins me at Sonic at noon!

Who's in?

[ndsubison1]

So does Fargo have a sonic or not?

[Bison bison]

Thanks to every one who made it.

Didn't expect to see so many of you, but with the economy and number of cheap bastards around here I guess I shouldn't have been so surprised.

It was especially nice to see your wife make it, Tatanka. She was looking great as always.

I have to apologize as I did make an off-color joke in front of her.

As she was taking a bit of her cheeseburger, I said:

Don't eat that! Don't you know that eating that stuff can give you very large breasts? Oh my God! I'm too late!

She loves that joke!

[Tatanka]

Thanks to every one who made it.

Didn't expect to see so many of you, but with the economy and number of cheap bastards around here I guess I shouldn't have been so surprised.

It was especially nice to see your wife make it, Tatanka. She was looking great as always.

I have to apologize as I did make an off-color joke in front of her.

As she was taking a bit of her cheeseburger, I said:

Don't eat that! Don't you know that eating that stuff can give you very large breasts? Oh my God! I'm too late!

She loves that joke!

I take it there was no motorboating in the vicinity, at least not today.

And oh, by the way, F you guys. And I mean that in the most positive, professional, caring way, delivered with the best of intentions.

[ndsubison1]

I take it there was no motorboating in the vicinity, at least not today.

And oh, by the way, F you guys. And I mean that in the most positive, professional, caring way, delivered with the best of intentions.

http://i3.glitter-graphics.org/pub/708/708353ktyzp004l8.gif

[Bison bison]

I take it there was no motorboating in the vicinity, at least not today.


Nope, too windy.

[TransAmBison]

But there was paddling.

[MNLonghorn10]

sonic size ftmfw

[DjKyRo]

Whatever you guys are talking about, I totally hit up the new Sonic for a burger for lunch yesterday.

[TheBisonator]

I actually seriously had Sonic last night.

The one in Bloomington, MN, that is.

[TransAmBison]

I actually seriously had Sonic last night.

The one in Bloomington, MN, that is.
Yeah, but that Sonic doesn't have the waitress this one has. You guys know who I am talking about. Wow. Surprised Lakes wasn't there.

[Bisonguy]

Yeah, but that Sonic doesn't have the waitress this one has. You guys know who I am talking about. Wow. Surprised Lakes wasn't there.


He was there.














Making tots.

[sambini]

White Castle......

[Tatanka]

White Castle......

Now you're just being mean. :D

[TheBisonator]

Now you're just being mean. :D

It's potentially giving 200,000 people diarrhea. That's what opening a White Castle in F-M would be like.

Ever notice that White Castle's acronym is W.C.??

[TbonZach]

It's potentially giving 200,000 people diarrhea. That's what opening a White Castle in F-M would be like.

Ever notice that White Castle's acronym is W.C.??

If W.C. ever comes to Fargo, it'll give Taco Bell a run for it's money in that department.

[Hammersmith]

White Castle......

Just stop by one of the movie theaters, they have them there.

I know it's not the same.

[sambini]

Had them twice once in the cities and St, louis.

[sambini]

How about a Dave and Busters?

[Tatanka]

Wait, is this the favorite restaurants thread? :p

[EndZoneQB]

It's potentially giving 200,000 people diarrhea. That's what opening a White Castle in F-M would be like.

Ever notice that White Castle's acronym is W.C.??

I used to be immune to white castle shits, but since I don't live a mile from one anymore, I'm not so much anymore. It just takes a few regular visits to be able to eat it without shitting.

[bisonmike2]

It's potentially giving 200,000 people diarrhea. That's what opening a White Castle in F-M would be like.

Ever notice that White Castle's acronym is W.C.??

But wouldn't all that crap flow downstream to Grand Forks? I say we do it then hold a grand opening everybody eats for free for the first week it's open. We'll take care of that pesky UND problem up north in no time. The devastation would be so great it make the 97 flood look like a spring shower.

[TheBisonator]

But wouldn't all that crap flow downstream to Grand Forks? I say we do it then hold a grand opening everybody eats for free for the first week it's open. We'll take care of that pesky UND problem up north in no time. The devastation would be so great it make the 97 flood look like a spring shower.

Now, that's just MEAN...

:blush:

[Gully]

Waffle House!

[Hammersmith]

Waffle House!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YyEdny5rh8

[sambini]

Wait, is this the favorite restaurants thread? :p No just the ones we don't have.... Zorbaz on Bluemont lakes..

[Tatanka]

Waffle House!

plus plus.

[MNLonghorn10]

waffle house has awesome coca cola.

also a fan of their grilled chicken...damn thats good

[tony]

Fargo and West Fargo should stop suing each other over land disputes and merge. The name of the new city should be Voltron.

[ndsubison1]

http://www.newsweekparentsguide.com/2010/07/02/the-great-great-plains.html?from=rss

[TheBisonator]

http://www.newsweekparentsguide.com/2010/07/02/the-great-great-plains.html?from=rss

That was a good article. Thanks!

[Bison"FANatic"]

Here is a cool parking garage for Fargo;) ;) ;) ;) ;)

The thing would only be filled with water 50% of the time:D :D :D

http://www.woehr.de/en/projekte/budapest_m730/index.htm

[tony]

Here is a cool parking garage for Fargo;) ;) ;) ;) ;)

The thing would only be filled with water 50% of the time:D :D :D

http://www.woehr.de/en/projekte/budapest_m730/index.htm

That's awesome!

[Twentysix]

I saw a video on that quite a few years ago it was in tokyo however not budapest.

that girl has a nice ass.

[EndZoneQB]

I saw a video on that quite a few years ago it was in tokyo however not budapest.

that girl has a nice ass.

Tokyo has those ferris wheel looking ones almost. This is not a new concept by any means.

[sambini]

[QUOTE=Bison"FANatic";378163]Here is a cool parking garage for Fargo;) ;) ;) ;) ;)

The thing would only be filled with water 50% of the time:D :D :D

http://www.woehr.de/en/projekte/budapest_m730/index.htm[/QUOTE Downtown Fargo could use this now++++

[phpguru]

Has anyone else noticed the sheer numbers of license plates from other states driving around town these days? I'm really curious as to how many folks are coming into the metropolitan area for jobs, and if it's increasing our population growth even more than previously...

[BigDeal]

Has anyone else noticed the sheer numbers of license plates from other states driving around town these days? I'm really curious as to how many folks are coming into the metropolitan area for jobs, and if it's increasing our population growth even more than previously...

No, but I haven't lived there in two years now. I do remember not being able to drive down 13th Ave on weekends because the Canadians would take over, drive 15 under the speed limit, and lane shift at the last possible second.

Now I live in Colorado so I get to deal with Mexican plates driving around in 1970's pickups crammed with 15 people with the muffler dragging on the ground while burning oil. Between that and driving behind some Asian from California in a Toyota mini van with their blinker on going 40 in the far left lane of Interstate 25, I would say Canadians aren't as bad as I once thought. Close, but not quite.

Wow, i got sidetracked. What was the question again? Oh yeah, 3 word answer: I don't know.

Side note: I have to avoid mountain state parks on the weekends because of all the Texans driving right down the center of the roads. And don't drive the Boulder Turnpike. Grandma likes to drive east on the wesbound lanes when she's late for her Sunday brunch at Perkins. And for the love of God, start using your damn blinkers.

[MNLonghorn10]

Has anyone else noticed the sheer numbers of license plates from other states driving around town these days? I'm really curious as to how many folks are coming into the metropolitan area for jobs, and if it's increasing our population growth even more than previously...

ive seen quite a few wisconsins and illinoison 94 lately ..and theres your common south dakota, montana and manitoba plates..dont know if theyre just passing through or what..

but most of the hotels in the area seem to always have a full parking lot.

[Twentysix]

South of west fargo, fargo is atleast 15% missouri. (The newer osgood area and beyond also frontier)

I think alot of the southern population is not here for our job market, they are here for our construction market and you will see them disappear in the winter.

Remeber Construction is not a great business to be in outside our little economic bubble(for the most part).

[Twentysix]

ive seen quite a few wisconsins and illinoison 94 lately ..and theres your common south dakota, montana and manitoba plates..dont know if theyre just passing through or what..

but most of the hotels in the area seem to always have a full parking lot.

Construction + Canadian.


The west is like this with oil workers.

[tjbison]

Reviving an old thread, Bisonator would be happy to see what has all went on and on going int he past 9 (nearly 10) years

Block 9
the new parking ramps
45th St developed all the way to 52nd
many new condos and construction downtown
Urban infill
the development of 52nd Ave S

and now the Radisson Hotel Downtown is in the early process of a 6 million dollar renovation to turn it into one of the very few Radisson BLU hotels int he US

https://www.inforum.com/news/government-and-politics/4631911-Radisson-aiming-to-become-FMs-first-upper-upscale-hotel-with-6-million-upgrade

[HerdBot]

Reviving an old thread, Bisonator would be happy to see what has all went on and on going int he past 9 (nearly 10) years

Block 9
the new parking ramps
45th St developed all the way to 52nd
many new condos and construction downtown
Urban infill
the development of 52nd Ave S

and now the Radisson Hotel Downtown is in the early process of a 6 million dollar renovation to turn it into one of the very few Radisson BLU hotels int he US

https://www.inforum.com/news/government-and-politics/4631911-Radisson-aiming-to-become-FMs-first-upper-upscale-hotel-with-6-million-upgrade

What's crazy is he described block 9 almost exactly as it is. And then Tony suggested a downtown ice skating rink. The only think he was off was a 2nd mall... this was kind of pre retail apocalypse

We wont hit the 300k by 2010 but well hit 250k

He would have been happy to see this
https://www.inforum.com/news/3974446-Fargo-Parks-Sanford-to-partner-in-major-southside-sports-complex

And all the Microbreweries

Didnt realize it's been since early 2013. It sucks he never got to experience the K State and Iowa wins. Oklahoma win. Only saw the first 2 Championships. He would have been happy

[56BISON73]

What's crazy is he described block 9 almost exactly as it is. And then Tony suggested a downtown ice skating rink. The only think he was off was a 2nd mall... this was kind of pre retail apocalypse

We wont hit the 300k by 2010 but well hit 250k

He would have been happy to see this
https://www.inforum.com/news/3974446-Fargo-Parks-Sanford-to-partner-in-major-southside-sports-complex

And all the Microbreweries

Didnt realize it's been since early 2013. It sucks he never got to experience the K State and Iowa wins. Oklahoma win. Only saw the first 2 Championships. He would have been happy

He missed big time on the gangs and crime.

[JMB]

Good job digging out this thread. Reading it feels like I am opening up a time capsule.

[HerdBot]

If this happens, it would transform our community. Probably a 20 year project but how cool would this be?
https://www.inforum.com/news/government-and-politics/6537859-Agassiz-Greenway-envisioned-as-30-plus-mile-parkway-and-trail-system-built-beside-Fargo-Moorhead-diversion

[bisonaudit]

If this happens, it would transform our community. Probably a 20 year project but how cool would this be?
https://www.inforum.com/news/government-and-politics/6537859-Agassiz-Greenway-envisioned-as-30-plus-mile-parkway-and-trail-system-built-beside-Fargo-Moorhead-diversion

The heck with who it brings to town, this would be a great thing for everyone in the community. Workout the connections along the river and you’ve got a 45 mile beltway around the city for recreation beautification and connectivity. This should be a long term project. With the right plan could support outdoor recreational needs for the next century at multiples of the current population.

[HerdBot]

The heck with who it brings to town, this would be a great thing for everyone in the community. Workout the connections along the river and you’ve got a 45 mile beltway around the city for recreation beautification and connectivity. This should be a long term project. With the right plan could support outdoor recreational needs for the next century at multiples of the current population.

Plus out percentage of fat people would go down

[TAILG8R]

I've said for years i wish someone would create a man made lake on the outside edge of Fargo. I want water recreation on my back door not 50 miles away at "the lakes".

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

[scottietohottie]

What else could we do with the greatest farmland in damn near the entire world besides farm it? Raise mosquitoes! Yes!!!

[56BISON73]

I've said for years i wish someone would create a man made lake on the outside edge of Fargo. I want water recreation on my back door not 50 miles away at "the lakes".

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

Next time it floods the diversion project should make that happen. Just dont let the water out.

[Grizzled]

I see a lot of big dollar figures in that article along with the use of the word “could”.

[Hammerhead]

Given the flat topography I don't see any way to build a large lake more than a few feet deep. A big indoor water park with a "beach" and a wave machine is more likely.



I've said for years i wish someone would create a man made lake on the outside edge of Fargo. I want water recreation on my back door not 50 miles away at "the lakes".

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

[HerdBot]

Next time it floods the diversion project should make that happen. Just dont let the water out.

It probably would require a decade of environmental studies, lawsuits and red tape. Might displace some plankton or worms

[HerdBot]

I see a lot of big dollar figures in that article along with the use of the word “could”.
They are kind of vague. I haven't looked at the map in a while but I think it covers parts or Horace, the edge of West Fargo, and Harwood. I dont even know if it touches Fargo, which is the largest tax base and people who would use it. Would probably be a mix of smaller cities and Cass County. It would definitely take some private/ public partnerships. Maybe some private fundraising . Who knows maybe the state would be interested or the ND Touriwm folks. Maybe a county tax.

[tony]

Waffle House!

Ten-year bump.

[Gully]

Ten-year bump.

ha, I don't remember posting that

[bisonaudit]

I see a lot of big dollar figures in that article along with the use of the word “could”.

You’re going to grow and people are going to want parks and recreation. This is an opportunity to leverage a giant piece to permanent infrastructure to provide those resources. I’ve seen this work in my own backyard. Bishan Park transformed a neighborhood by replacing an ugly concrete lined canal with a great urban park.

https://www.asla.org/2016awards/169669.html

There are other examples here as well, a nice linear park built on top of a decked over section of the Anderson Canal in a different part of town, and I’ve seen good examples of integrating flood control and park land in Japan as well.

[GreenfieldBison]

You’re going to grow and people are going to want parks and recreation. This is an opportunity to leverage a giant piece to permanent infrastructure to provide those resources. I’ve seen this work in my own backyard. Bishan Park transformed a neighborhood by replacing an ugly concrete lined canal with a great urban park.

https://www.asla.org/2016awards/169669.html

There are other examples here as well, a nice linear park built on top of a decked over section of the Anderson Canal in a different part of town, and I’ve seen good examples of integrating flood control and park land in Japan as well.

Here’s an idea as well...

https://www.thesanantonioriverwalk.com/about/history/


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[1998braves64]

How do you rehabilitate this park/recreation area after diversion is put into use??

Not saying it can't be done but are they keeping most of it higher elevation (I know they're probably not putting everything at the bottom). Don't have inforum subscription and refuse to sign in just to read stories either do didn't read the article.

Sent from my Pixel 3a XL on a bullet train from Hillsboro.

[bisonaudit]

How do you rehabilitate this park/recreation area after diversion is put into use??

Not saying it can't be done but are they keeping most of it higher elevation (I know they're probably not putting everything at the bottom). Don't have inforum subscription and refuse to sign in just to read stories either do didn't read the article.

Sent from my Pixel 3a XL on a bullet train from Hillsboro.

The same way you do Edgewood now.

[Hammersmith]

How do you rehabilitate this park/recreation area after diversion is put into use??

Not saying it can't be done but are they keeping most of it higher elevation (I know they're probably not putting everything at the bottom). Don't have inforum subscription and refuse to sign in just to read stories either do didn't read the article.

Sent from my Pixel 3a XL on a bullet train from Hillsboro.

I think the idea is that the greenway will be built in the diversion right of way along the inside of the diversion boundary. So from west to east you would have the diversion channel, an embankment that functions as a levee, an open area for these greenway projects, then eventually the cities as they grow to meet the diversion.

IOW, these projects are not planned to go IN the diversion, they're proposed to go NEXT TO the diversion on the inside.

[Grizzled]

You’re going to grow and people are going to want parks and recreation. This is an opportunity to leverage a giant piece to permanent infrastructure to provide those resources. I’ve seen this work in my own backyard. Bishan Park transformed a neighborhood by replacing an ugly concrete lined canal with a great urban park.

https://www.asla.org/2016awards/169669.html


There are other examples here as well, a nice linear park built on top of a decked over section of the Anderson Canal in a different part of town, and I’ve seen good examples of integrating flood control and park land in Japan as well.

I, like a majority of voting citizens don’t even want the diversion. Let’s figure out how the true cost of that will be paid off before adding more to it.

[Hammersmith]

I, like a majority of voting citizens don’t even want the diversion. Let’s figure out how the true cost of that will be paid off before adding more to it.

How do you figure that? There have been multiple votes to pay for the diversion and they've all passed easily. I think some passed by as much as 80/20. How are you managing to define "voting citizens" to even come close to suggesting that most don't want it? That statement smells of some pretty ripe bs.

[Grizzled]

How do you figure that? There have been multiple votes to pay for the diversion and they've all passed easily. I think some passed by as much as 80/20. How are you managing to define "voting citizens" to even come close to suggesting that most don't want it? That statement smells of some pretty ripe bs.

The special assessment vote to financially back the project would not have passed if only votes of actual homeowners would have been counted. The initiative was passed before even going to vote with the way the system was rigged.

[1998braves64]

The same way you do Edgewood now.Edgewood is much smaller area/acreage than what is being talked about here.

I was thinking this was more inside the levees but see my next post. So my concern probably is not ever going to be an issue.

Sent from my Pixel 3a XL on a bullet train from Hillsboro.

[1998braves64]

I think the idea is that the greenway will be built in the diversion right of way along the inside of the diversion boundary. So from west to east you would have the diversion channel, an embankment that functions as a levee, an open area for these greenway projects, then eventually the cities as they grow to meet the diversion.

IOW, these projects are not planned to go IN the diversion, they're proposed to go NEXT TO the diversion on the inside.Think you're right I dug up an old article (inforum) on Google that showed the cross section image I partially remembered seeing way back. I was thinking right of way would have been closer to the levee.

https://www.inforum.com/news/4182607-diversion-p3-hopefuls-will-get-back-portion-10-million-bid-cost-if-they-promise-not-sue

I just pulled the link on this article based on Google images (didn't sign in to find it)

They should put up a winter resort on the interior embankment like Winnipeg did on theirs.

https://www.springhillwinterpark.com/

Sent from my Pixel 3a XL on a bullet train from Hillsboro.

[TAILG8R]

The special assessment vote to financially back the project would not have passed if only votes of actual homeowners would have been counted. The initiative was passed before even going to vote with the way the system was rigged.So only homeowners should get to decide on whether the city they live in is protected?

That smells a lot like not wanting to pay taxes to go for schools because you don't have kids.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

[EC8CH]

So only homeowners should get to decide on whether the city they live in is protected?

That smells a lot like not wanting to pay taxes to go for schools because you don't have kids.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

So by majority of voter, he means majority of property owners?

[Grizzled]

So only homeowners should get to decide on whether the city they live in is protected?

That smells a lot like not wanting to pay taxes to go for schools because you don't have kids.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

In my opinion a vote shouldn’t be weighted so it’s decided before ballots are cast. When a vote of citizens and property owners wouldn’t pass without setting it up that way it certainly doesn’t seem right.

I have no problems with new schools. Can’t remember the last time I voted against one. Not sure what your point is as it’s a poor comparison.

[TAILG8R]

In my opinion a vote shouldn’t be weighted so it’s decided before ballots are cast. When a vote of citizens and property owners wouldn’t pass without setting it up that way it certainly doesn’t seem right.

I have no problems with new schools. Can’t remember the last time I voted against one. Not sure what your point is as it’s a poor comparison.I have no idea what your point is. Is it about property owners being able to vote or that the vote was stacked to win before the election? If so how?

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

[Grizzled]

I have no idea what your point is. Is it about property owners being able to vote or that the vote was stacked to win before the election? If so how?

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

Actually, Its property owners vote not counting. If I remember correctly govt cast votes made up 2/3 of the votes that needed a simple majority to pass. It was set to pass before even being on the ballot. If non govt cast votes were counted like every other election, it didn’t get a majority.

Using your analogy it would give school districts the votes to build schools whenever they want. At least for those my yes votes count for something.

[TAILG8R]

Actually, Its property owners vote not counting. If I remember correctly govt cast votes made up 2/3 of the votes that needed a simple majority to pass. It was set to pass before even being on the ballot. If non govt cast votes were counted like every other election, it didn’t get a majority.

Using your analogy it would give school districts the votes to build schools whenever they want. At least for those my yes votes count for something.I see what you're saying the reason it didn't make sense was I don't remember it being that way.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

[Hammersmith]

I see what you're saying the reason it didn't make sense was I don't remember it being that way.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

I remember the vote he's talking about, but he's ignoring the several other votes that were standard and overwhelmingly supported the diversion.


What he's talking about:
Several years ago, there was a decision to be made that had to do with the financing of FM's share of the diversion. Not the payment of it, but the literal financing of it. If the Diversion Authority could guarantee the loan in some way, they could get a better rating on the bonds that the sales tax was going to pay for. Since sales tax revenues are variable in nature, bonds based off of them are rated a little lower, and the interest is a little higher. In a multi-billion project like this, a couple points adds up to some serious money. The solution was a little legal/accounting switcheroo.

The different governing bodies and property owners in FM were asked to vote on a special assessment to back the project. By doing so, the bonds would be rated higher and have the lower interest rate because they'd be backed by real property and not just sales tax projections. The agreement between the property holders and the Diversion Authority is that the specials will never actually be assessed; instead, the loans will be paid by the sales tax. Effectively, it's acting like a co-signed loan where the primary signer is good for the loan, but the second signer allows for a lower interest rate.

As for the vote being a forgone conclusion, he was correct in this one case. The way this vote worked was that the values of the individual votes were based on the level of theoretical assessments on your property. So if, on paper, your assessment was going to be responsible for 0.00001% of the bond, then you would get 0.00001% of the vote. The city and school governments chose to assess their own properties at a higher rate than that of private property owners. On top of that, the cities and schools own a whole lot of property; including improvements like infrastructure. So when all the city and school district shares of the assessment were tallied, they made up something like 2/3 of the total votes. Since they all voted in favor of it(though there were some tense meetings over it), it didn't actually matter how the private property owners voted.

(I remember all this because I happened to attend the WF school board meeting where this was presented and discussed. I believe it was voted on the following meeting. I was there for an unrelated matter, but this was early in the agenda and dominated the meeting.)


That all being said, this vote was only made up of a portion of the citizens of FM. The community has also voted on multiple sales taxes to pay for the diversion, and those were able to be voted on by everyone in the community and they all passed by large margins, including at least one vote that happened AFTER the special assessment vote. So basically Grizzled's argument fails on its face.

[HerdBot]

http://fmmetrocog.org/AgassizGreenway

Here is the website with a video and survey that ends July 10th. I chose camping, fishing, hiking trails and snowmobile trails and cross country skiing as my top priorities. Baseball and softball diamonds would be awesome but we already have plenty of them. Didn't we just build a new softball park in north Fargo?


https://youtu.be/nJFt6zu1kpA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJFt6zu1kpA&app=desktop

[1998braves64]

http://fmmetrocog.org/AgassizGreenway

Here is the website with a video and survey that ends July 10th. I chose camping, fishing, hiking trails and snowmobile trails and cross country skiing as my top priorities. Baseball and softball diamonds would be awesome but we already have plenty of them. Didn't we just build a new softball park in north Fargo?


https://youtu.be/nJFt6zu1kpA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJFt6zu1kpA&app=desktopYes but in 20 years there could be a need for more. I think they have room for quite a few more out there. 15 years ago there was a huge lack of decent softball diamonds.

Sent from my Pixel 3a XL on a bullet train from Hillsboro.

[El_Chapo]

IF there isn't a new NDSU football stadium in the next 10 years, then just shut down the city.

[tony]

Two words: World's Largest Cowbell.

[kab1one]

I remember the vote he's talking about, but he's ignoring the several other votes that were standard and overwhelmingly supported the diversion.


What he's talking about:
Several years ago, there was a decision to be made that had to do with the financing of FM's share of the diversion. Not the payment of it, but the literal financing of it. If the Diversion Authority could guarantee the loan in some way, they could get a better rating on the bonds that the sales tax was going to pay for. Since sales tax revenues are variable in nature, bonds based off of them are rated a little lower, and the interest is a little higher. In a multi-billion project like this, a couple points adds up to some serious money. The solution was a little legal/accounting switcheroo.

The different governing bodies and property owners in FM were asked to vote on a special assessment to back the project. By doing so, the bonds would be rated higher and have the lower interest rate because they'd be backed by real property and not just sales tax projections. The agreement between the property holders and the Diversion Authority is that the specials will never actually be assessed; instead, the loans will be paid by the sales tax. Effectively, it's acting like a co-signed loan where the primary signer is good for the loan, but the second signer allows for a lower interest rate.

As for the vote being a forgone conclusion, he was correct in this one case. The way this vote worked was that the values of the individual votes were based on the level of theoretical assessments on your property. So if, on paper, your assessment was going to be responsible for 0.00001% of the bond, then you would get 0.00001% of the vote. The city and school governments chose to assess their own properties at a higher rate than that of private property owners. On top of that, the cities and schools own a whole lot of property; including improvements like infrastructure. So when all the city and school district shares of the assessment were tallied, they made up something like 2/3 of the total votes. Since they all voted in favor of it(though there were some tense meetings over it), it didn't actually matter how the private property owners voted.

(I remember all this because I happened to attend the WF school board meeting where this was presented and discussed. I believe it was voted on the following meeting. I was there for an unrelated matter, but this was early in the agenda and dominated the meeting.)


That all being said, this vote was only made up of a portion of the citizens of FM. The community has also voted on multiple sales taxes to pay for the diversion, and those were able to be voted on by everyone in the community and they all passed by large margins, including at least one vote that happened AFTER the special assessment vote. So basically Grizzled's argument fails on its face.

Summary of the special assessment district vote

http://fmdam.org/fargo-moorhead-flood-diversion-assessment-district-should-be-dissolved/


The fraud of the special assessment district was the diversion authority was that the specials would not be assessed, but used to help with the bond rating. That is far from truth, as soon as sales tax did not meet revenues to meet the bond funding, the specials in fact would kick in. As such the sales tax projections counted on a 3% annual growth in sales tax forever to meet bond obligations. In none of the years since this vote has Fargo had a 3% sales tax growth. Revenues have been plat. So the specials would then be assessed to the properties. As Hammer, noted its like co-signing for a car. But any good financial advisor would tell you, NEVER CO SIGN.

The other dirty little secret is the diversion doesn't remove you from flood insurance requirements. If your lot is to low, you need flood insurance with or without the diversion.

[Grizzled]

I remember the vote he's talking about, but he's ignoring the several other votes that were standard and overwhelmingly supported the diversion.


What he's talking about:
Several years ago, there was a decision to be made that had to do with the financing of FM's share of the diversion. Not the payment of it, but the literal financing of it. If the Diversion Authority could guarantee the loan in some way, they could get a better rating on the bonds that the sales tax was going to pay for. Since sales tax revenues are variable in nature, bonds based off of them are rated a little lower, and the interest is a little higher. In a multi-billion project like this, a couple points adds up to some serious money. The solution was a little legal/accounting switcheroo.

The different governing bodies and property owners in FM were asked to vote on a special assessment to back the project. By doing so, the bonds would be rated higher and have the lower interest rate because they'd be backed by real property and not just sales tax projections. The agreement between the property holders and the Diversion Authority is that the specials will never actually be assessed; instead, the loans will be paid by the sales tax. Effectively, it's acting like a co-signed loan where the primary signer is good for the loan, but the second signer allows for a lower interest rate.

As for the vote being a forgone conclusion, he was correct in this one case. The way this vote worked was that the values of the individual votes were based on the level of theoretical assessments on your property. So if, on paper, your assessment was going to be responsible for 0.00001% of the bond, then you would get 0.00001% of the vote. The city and school governments chose to assess their own properties at a higher rate than that of private property owners. On top of that, the cities and schools own a whole lot of property; including improvements like infrastructure. So when all the city and school district shares of the assessment were tallied, they made up something like 2/3 of the total votes. Since they all voted in favor of it(though there were some tense meetings over it), it didn't actually matter how the private property owners voted.

(I remember all this because I happened to attend the WF school board meeting where this was presented and discussed. I believe it was voted on the following meeting. I was there for an unrelated matter, but this was early in the agenda and dominated the meeting.)


That all being said, this vote was only made up of a portion of the citizens of FM. The community has also voted on multiple sales taxes to pay for the diversion, and those were able to be voted on by everyone in the community and they all passed by large margins, including at least one vote that happened AFTER the special assessment vote. So basically Grizzled's argument fails on its face.

Comparing forcing a dollar value on someone’s home to choosing to add or extend a sales tax is laughable. One of the sales taxes that was overwhelming supported was one that was set to expire. The commission stated the specials would not be imposed but no where is it in writing or could one of them guarantee it. When the dollar value of the diversion comes in well above the estimate (which it will) and if any federal or state funding falls short or the sales tax estimate falls short, where do you suppose they turn? Also, the portion that was allowed to vote is the portion the in Cass county that were deemed affected. It actually makes up a really good chunk of the area. Why should someone who would not have specials assessed be allowed to vote??

[roadwarrior]

The other dirty little secret is the diversion doesn't remove you from flood insurance requirements. If your lot is to low, you need flood insurance with or without the diversion.

I am no expert, but I think you are wrong.

I live next to the Red River at one of the lowest elevations in Fargo. We are protected by a flood wall and dikes. Flood insurance is not required.

Once FEMA certifies an area is out of the 100 year flood plain because of protective measures taken, the property is no longer in the flood zone when the FEMA maps are re-drawn.

[Civil06]

I am no expert, but I think you are wrong.

I live next to the Red River at one of the lowest elevations in Fargo. We are protected by a flood wall and dikes. Flood insurance is not required.

Once FEMA certifies an area is out of the 100 year flood plain because of protective measures taken, the property is no longer in the flood zone when the FEMA maps are re-drawn.

He is wrong. The Diversion will remove over 10,000 EXISTING structures from FEMA's next revision of the 100-year floodplain. Opponents love to talk about how the project only benefits developers, but the truth is that new developments are all elevated and protected from flooding. It is the existing portions of Fargo and West Fargo, and Harwood that will see tremendous benefits.

[Grizzled]

He is wrong. The Diversion will remove over 10,000 EXISTING structures from FEMA's next revision of the 100-year floodplain. Opponents love to talk about how the project only benefits developers, but the truth is that new developments are all elevated and protected from flooding. It is the existing portions of Fargo and West Fargo, and Harwood that will see tremendous benefits.

So it removes all existing structures?

[kab1one]

He is wrong. The Diversion will remove over 10,000 EXISTING structures from FEMA's next revision of the 100-year floodplain. Opponents love to talk about how the project only benefits developers, but the truth is that new developments are all elevated and protected from flooding. It is the existing portions of Fargo and West Fargo, and Harwood that will see tremendous benefits.

http://fmdam.org/will-the-fargo-moorhead-dam-and-fm-diversion-save-19-million-in-flood-insurance-premiums/
It will be on a property by property basis. You can go through a process currently in which you can get engineer certification and be removed from a flood insurance requirement if the property is high enough. In many cases inside of the diversion, the elevation is not high enough and flood insurance will be still be required .

[HerdBot]

Yes but in 20 years there could be a need for more. I think they have room for quite a few more out there. 15 years ago there was a huge lack of decent softball diamonds.

Sent from my Pixel 3a XL on a bullet train from Hillsboro.

I agree in time we will definitely need them. But since this thing will cost a small fortune, they need to lay the basic infrastructure first and then do things like baseball diamonds later. It seems silly to build baseball diamonds before they complete snowmobile, skiing, camping, and hiking trails. It's kind of a double edged sword because you need things to draw people to the area, but you also have to build it first which will be the most expensive part.

[HerdBot]

This is from a few months ago, but it looks like it will be one heck of a project. https://www.inforum.com/news/government-and-politics/4712398-Plans-moving-ahead-for-Fargo-Sports-Complex

I also read that the park district is going to move their offices out of the downtown train depot and into this future location. I'm glad because the old depot is one of the coolest buildings in town, and it deserves to be something cooler than the park district offices.

In other news, the Fargo Public school offices are moving to the old R.D. Offutt building (they are moving to Block 9) They will put their downtown office on 4th St available for the public to buy. It's a cool old building behind the new mercantile building that used to be the Goodyear spot. The police will be putting a substation in the mercantile building. Lots of moves, but that whole area is really coming together nicely.

[runtheoption]

He is wrong. The Diversion will remove over 10,000 EXISTING structures from FEMA's next revision of the 100-year floodplain. Opponents love to talk about how the project only benefits developers, but the truth is that new developments are all elevated and protected from flooding. It is the existing portions of Fargo and West Fargo, and Harwood that will see tremendous benefits.


http://fmdam.org/will-the-fargo-moorhead-dam-and-fm-diversion-save-19-million-in-flood-insurance-premiums/
It will be on a property by property basis. You can go through a process currently in which you can get engineer certification and be removed from a flood insurance requirement if the property is high enough. In many cases inside of the diversion, the elevation is not high enough and flood insurance will be still be required .


Summary of the special assessment district vote

http://fmdam.org/fargo-moorhead-flood-diversion-assessment-district-should-be-dissolved/


The fraud of the special assessment district was the diversion authority was that the specials would not be assessed, but used to help with the bond rating. That is far from truth, as soon as sales tax did not meet revenues to meet the bond funding, the specials in fact would kick in. As such the sales tax projections counted on a 3% annual growth in sales tax forever to meet bond obligations. In none of the years since this vote has Fargo had a 3% sales tax growth. Revenues have been plat. So the specials would then be assessed to the properties. As Hammer, noted its like co-signing for a car. But any good financial advisor would tell you, NEVER CO SIGN.

The other dirty little secret is the diversion doesn't remove you from flood insurance requirements. If your lot is to low, you need flood insurance with or without the diversion.

So putting the thoughts in these three posts together...the diversion will mainly benefit existing structures in Fargo, West Fargo and Harwood (I live in Harwood) by reducing the threat of a flood, but many (the majority?) existing structures are not at a high enough elevation so they will still need flood insurance if there is a mortgage on the property as the lender will almost certainly require it.

If what is typed is true, then I tend to lean towards the diversion being not a very good use of taxpayer dollars, based on the current protections in place in Fargo, West Fargo and Harwood, combined with people/institutions getting very good at planning and implementing emergency or temporary measures. I don't know the exact numbers, but I don't remember many homes or businesses being flooded in the ugly years of 2009, 2010 and 2011. It seems like property owners will be getting unnecessarily hit in the pocket book multiple ways to protect their properties...assessments for the diversion when the sales tax falls short, the sales tax itself, and flood insurance.

Now if the diversion ultimately gets built, then might as well go all the way with the green space and parks.

[Hammerhead]

If corporations pass on higher taxes to consumers, doesn’t the same apply to property taxes and landlords? Therefore renters vote to increase their rent when they vote for tax increases.


In my opinion a vote shouldn’t be weighted so it’s decided before ballots are cast. When a vote of citizens and property owners wouldn’t pass without setting it up that way it certainly doesn’t seem right.

I have no problems with new schools. Can’t remember the last time I voted against one. Not sure what your point is as it’s a poor comparison.

[Grizzled]

If corporations pass on higher taxes to consumers, doesn’t the same apply to property taxes and landlords? Therefore renters vote to increase their rent when they vote for tax increases.

Sure. I’m assuming landlords made up a good chunk of the only 48% of non city, county owned property that voted in favor.

[reformedUNDfan]

Wonderful how routine a new project this big downtown is now. Gonna be a wildly different town in a decade.

https://www.inforum.com/news/government-and-politics/6817127-Developers-plan-mixed-use-gateway-to-downtown-Fargo-at-corner-of-Broadway-and-Main

[Hammersmith]

It's nice that, if King House is no longer going to be there, the old Merchants Bank building will return to being a bank. Chase will be moving in after some reno work. It would be really nice if they rebuilt the front lower façade back to its original look, but I don't expect that. As long as whatever they do is tasteful, I won't complain.

https://www.inforum.com/business/6820596-City-records-reveal-new-tenant-for-former-King-House-location

Current look:
https://www.inforum.com/incoming/6707247-k9mne4-100820.B.FF.KINGHOUSE/alternates/BASE_LANDSCAPE/100820.B.FF.KINGHOUSE


Original look:
https://library.ndsu.edu/fargo-history/sites/default/files/merchants-1jpg.jpg

[HerdBot]

It's nice that, if King House is no longer going to be there, the old Merchants Bank building will return to being a bank. Chase will be moving in after some reno work. It would be really nice if they rebuilt the front lower façade back to its original look, but I don't expect that. As long as whatever they do is tasteful, I won't complain.

https://www.inforum.com/business/6820596-City-records-reveal-new-tenant-for-former-King-House-location

Current look:
https://www.inforum.com/incoming/6707247-k9mne4-100820.B.FF.KINGHOUSE/alternates/BASE_LANDSCAPE/100820.B.FF.KINGHOUSE


Original look:
https://library.ndsu.edu/fargo-history/sites/default/files/merchants-1jpg.jpg

Damn thats as dumb as putting carpet or linoleum over wood. Old art decco details are my favorite. They really ruined a cool building, thanks for sharing

[roadwarrior]

I find it odd that Chase is opening branches in Fargo. Another one on 13th Ave where Pier 1 Imports used to be. Large national banks don't do too well here. The locally owned banks kick ass in customer service.

[HerdBot]

Wonderful how routine a new project this big downtown is now. Gonna be a wildly different town in a decade.

https://www.inforum.com/news/government-and-politics/6817127-Developers-plan-mixed-use-gateway-to-downtown-Fargo-at-corner-of-Broadway-and-Main

Main Ave is going to eventually be really nice. What really needs a makeover are the buildings west of McDonald's on main to University and further west Also Epic bought the property to the east of the Fryin Pan and will be developing it

Drives me nuts you have all three classic downtown buildings and then no character to the west. Ugly 70s wood buildings, steel buildings, etc. Gotta be cheap land

[GreenfieldBison]

I find it odd that Chase is opening branches in Fargo. Another one on 13th Ave where Pier 1 Imports used to be. Large national banks don't do too well here. The locally owned banks kick ass in customer service.

I haven’t been inside a bank since I worked down at Wells Fargo Center in Minneapolis and the only reason I did then was because I had to pass the tellers on my way to/from my car.

Well except for that time I went to the TCF branch in Plymouth last spring wearing a mask and secretly carrying. That was exciting in a perverse sort of way.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[HerdBot]

I find it odd that Chase is opening branches in Fargo. Another one on 13th Ave where Pier 1 Imports used to be. Large national banks don't do too well here. The locally owned banks kick ass in customer service.

They must be blown away by our booming economy during a pandemic. Growing by 37,000 people as metro in 9 years doesn't hurt either

[imabison]

I find it odd that Chase is opening branches in Fargo. Another one on 13th Ave where Pier 1 Imports used to be. Large national banks don't do too well here. The locally owned banks kick ass in customer service.

Wondering if they will be the Chase Cafe bank that I have seen advertised.

[Civil06]

I find it odd that Chase is opening branches in Fargo. Another one on 13th Ave where Pier 1 Imports used to be. Large national banks don't do too well here. The locally owned banks kick ass in customer service.

I agree. I rarely need a physical location but since switching from a large national bank I can't believe how much better the service is at our local banks.

[HerdBot]

Just to keep track, this doesn't include the

Recreational lake they are building in Southwest Fargo. Will have fishing, kayaking, beach volleyball and possibly swimming and a beach
https://www.inforum.com/news/traffic-and-construction/6622662-Recreational-lake-planned-in-new-southwest-Fargo-development

GIant sports complex on 64th Ave S (fundraising slowed by pandemic, probably spring of 2022 construction)
https://www.inforum.com/sports/recreation/6776874-New-indoor-Fargo-recreation-complex-faces-hurdles-from-the-pandemic

Suite Shots Golf (its owned by Top Golf)
https://www.inforum.com/business/6666096-McFeely-A-sweet-entertainment-option-is-under-construction-in-Fargo

Amazon Fulfillment Center which is 1.3 million square feet.
https://www.kvrr.com/2020/10/30/city-state-officials-announce-amazon-fulfillment-center-coming-to-fargo/

I'm pretty sure I missed 75% of what's actually being built but here are a few. We've added 2 parking ramps with free public parking on evenings and weekends. (Block 9 and Mercentile added Roberts Commons in 2019)

Most of these pics are North or downtown Fargo with a few pictures in the south. All of the pictures ones will be done within the next 2 years

https://www.inforum.com/950317-od947f-Block-9-aerial-night-view.jpg/alternates/BASE_LANDSCAPE/Block%209%20aerial%20night%20view.jpg
Block 9 and Broadway Square. Free ice skating and 250 events per year on the grassy area with a stage
https://kilbournegroup.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/web-Broadway-Option-2-latest_.jpg
Above (^) Mercentile on Broadway. Parking garage behind it, also 7 townhouses being built behind it by the owners of the old Great Northern Depot ^

Kesler on 1st Ave N, is a continuation of Roberts Alley (below)
https://www.inforum.com/incoming/6607412-fzmrpa-080820.B.FF.KESLER001.jpg/alternates/BASE_LANDSCAPE/080820.B.FF.KESLER001.jpg

Where the Nestor used to be (below) Restaurant on the corner and 150 units (below)
https://www.inforum.com/incoming/6717364-gtz2i5-101520.N.FF.1001PROJECT.001.jpg/alternates/BASE_LANDSCAPE/101520.N.FF.1001PROJECT.001.jpg

(Below) Main Ave in front of the Fryin' Pan, the land to the east which is open land from a dike construction now will soon be developed
https://epiccompaniesnd.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/Ground-Render-final_sign-01-1536x1060.jpg
https://www.inforum.com/incoming/6819067-kx3eg7-JLG-drawing.jpg/alternates/BASE_LANDSCAPE/JLG%20drawing.jpg
Broadway and Main Ave (above ^)

Below, Milton Earle Downtown is by the Santuary Events Center
https://www.inforum.com/incoming/5971749-svib9y-Milton-Earl-Apartments.jpg/alternates/BASE_LANDSCAPE/Milton%20Earl%20Apartments.jpg
https://www.enclavecompanies.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/MosaicWebsite-2.png
https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/586177266a496340ce3fb1b6/1601569398650-OOQINIWD22PJRXZYCAZ3/ke17ZwdGBToddI8pDm48kFFXBXerXLN6fTN8dQYEqChZw-zPPgdn4jUwVcJE1ZvWQUxwkmyExglNqGp0IvTJZamWLI2zvYWH 8K3-s_4yszcp2ryTI0HqTOaaUohrI8PIvVSuqH9yXhmHq8ng-lTxfyL4RBtPnS-9Bho6wWD29ZoKMshLAGzx4R3EDFOm1kBS/10.jpg
Oak Grove (above) by the river. Not directly downtown but close by)

St Paul Newman Center, kitty corner from NDSU main gate on North University
https://www.inforum.com/968468-h39d24-St.-Paul-Newman-Center-Project-1.jpg/alternates/BASE_LANDSCAPE/St.%20Paul%20Newman%20Center%20Project%201.jpg
https://www.inforum.com/incoming/6811123-dmga6w-121220.B.BREWHALLA01.jpg/alternates/BASE_LANDSCAPE/121220.B.BREWHALLA01.jpg
(Above)^ Drekker Brewhalla addition will include hotel, apartments, 22k square foot eatery, events center)

701 Restaurant (below) is kitty corner from Fargo Brewing Company on North University. Fargo Brewing is also doing a big upgrade with an indoor concert hall, outdoor area, and outdoor stage.
https://www.inforum.com/incoming/6785153-vh4y89-120320.B.FF.701UPDATER.jpg/alternates/BASE_LANDSCAPE/120320.B.FF.701UPDATER.jpg

ROCO... Anderson Field Softball Complex (this will be similar to the Lights in West Fargo) The park district wants to build a softball or baseball stadium to draw events
https://epiccompaniesnd.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/Eola_Renders-05-scaled.jpg

Then of course don't forget the IPF, which is apparently super close
https://www.fccnn.com/sports/6767062-qql5y7-The-indoor-football-facility-will-have-plenty-of-height-for-a-punter./alternates/BASE_LANDSCAPE/The%20indoor%20football%20facility%20will%20have%2 0plenty%20of%20height%20for%20a%20punter.

[bisonaudit]

Wondering if they will be the Chase Cafe bank that I have seen advertised.

Physical banks are really just expensive billboards.

[MNLonghorn10]

Are they ever gonna get rid of the brown “skyscraper”?

[Hammersmith]

Are they ever gonna get rid of the brown “skyscraper”?

Fargo High Rise? Last I heard they're still talking about what to do with it. Everybody expects it to be demolished(including the current owners) as they believe it would be way too expensive to refurbish, but the decision hasn't been formally made yet. Since it's subsidized by the feds(I think), I expect there are more hoops to jump through than usual. I think they have to find new homes for all the current residents before they sell the place to developers, and I don't think that's finished yet. But I could easily be wrong as it's been several months since I've read anything about it.

[ByeSonBusiness]

I find it odd that Chase is opening branches in Fargo. Another one on 13th Ave where Pier 1 Imports used to be. Large national banks don't do too well here. The locally owned banks kick ass in customer service.

I make fun of my classmates who have accounts at major banks. Lol. You will never get the same customer service as you do at a small bank or credit union

[Hammerhead]

I make fun of my classmates who have accounts at major banks. Lol. You will never get the same customer service as you do at a small bank or credit union

That's for sure. We've been credit union members since 1999 when we were first eligible to be in one. Now virtually anyone can be a member simply based on where you live. Our last experience at a bank was trying to get the cashier with a thick accent to understand that I wanted rolls of quarters for the laundry machines in our apartment complex.

[GreenfieldBison]

I make fun of my classmates who have accounts at major banks. Lol. You will never get the same customer service as you do at a small bank or credit union

Account size may alter that somewhat. If you get up to the Private Client level the customer service is pretty good. Not exactly Mr. Drysdale and Jane Hathaway good, but good.

[HerdBot]

Are they ever gonna get rid of the brown “skyscraper”?


Fargo High Rise? Last I heard they're still talking about what to do with it. Everybody expects it to be demolished(including the current owners) as they believe it would be way too expensive to refurbish, but the decision hasn't been formally made yet. Since it's subsidized by the feds(I think), I expect there are more hoops to jump through than usual. I think they have to find new homes for all the current residents before they sell the place to developers, and I don't think that's finished yet. But I could easily be wrong as it's been several months since I've read anything about it.

The most recent article I could find was from August of this year that said "with plans or bids due by Nov. 16 and a final decision on Dec. 4."

Did that ever happen?

https://www.inforum.com/news/government-and-politics/6622810-Whats-the-future-hold-for-the-Fargo-high-rise-site-Developers-asked-to-submit-proposals

[NDSU92]

I make fun of my classmates who have accounts at major banks. Lol. You will never get the same customer service as you do at a small bank or credit union

What are you talking about man, my old big bank had great customer service. Opened up an extra checking account and credit card for me without even needing to ask me! So convenient!

[ThunderDan]

I agree. I rarely need a physical location but since switching from a large national bank I can't believe how much better the service is at our local banks.

I don't think banks open locations for customers...it's for their employees.
Only reason to go to a bank is if you are getting a loan (personal or business)

CAn do all your basic banking online with any bank now days

[TAILG8R]

Local banks have better customer service but from what I have experienced their tech is dog crap in comparison to the big guys. I HATE everything about Alerus's online banking including it tendency to not be available/running correctly. Their last version sucked too but when you have 6-7 accounts someplace it's a pain in the ass to switch. I have a couple Ally accounts and I really like their tech.

[tjbison]

Local banks have better customer service but from what I have experienced their tech is dog crap in comparison to the big guys. I HATE everything about Alerus's online banking including it tendency to not be available/running correctly. Their last version sucked too but when you have 6-7 accounts someplace it's a pain in the ass to switch. I have a couple Ally accounts and I really like their tech.

Bell Bank is top notch, I'm only able to compare it to Wells Fargo but BB blows WF out of the water imo

[Hammerhead]

I normally do my banking online, but used to deposit a few checks at First Community when they had free cookies in the lobby before COVID-19 hit.



I don't think banks open locations for customers...it's for their employees.
Only reason to go to a bank is if you are getting a loan (personal or business)

CAn do all your basic banking online with any bank now days

[ByeSonBusiness]

I normally do my banking online, but used to deposit a few checks at First Community when they had free cookies in the lobby before COVID-19 hit.

First Community's app was already user friendly by the time I got a smartphone.

I too used to deposit checks in person to visit with the tellers and eat a cookie. I may contact my people over there and beg them to bring back cookies.

[ndsubison1]

After reviewing this, we have a sonic now and cant believe I advocated for a parking garage.

[Gully]

Wait, Fargo has a Sonic now? If Fargo gets a Waffle House I will have to move back immediately.

[Hammerhead]

Wait, Fargo has a Sonic now? If Fargo gets a Waffle House I will have to move back immediately.

It's been open for 6 years. https://www.grandforksherald.com/business/3337063-sonic-fargo-opens-long-lines-eager-customers. All we have is Huddle House and I think the closest Waffle House (or is it Awful House) is a long ways away. :)

[Gully]

It's been open for 6 years. https://www.grandforksherald.com/business/3337063-sonic-fargo-opens-long-lines-eager-customers. All we have is Huddle House and I think the closest Waffle House (or is it Awful House) is a long ways away. :)

I didn't bother to look, but just out of the cities I've been to (limited sampling, for sure) the farthest North I've never noticed a WH was in St. Joseph, MO.

[Gully]

So I had to look, there was at least some truth to my post. St. Joe is the northern most in that part of the country, which was where I lived at the time. I see other locations farther East that are North of St. Joe. Also maybe Ft. Collins.

Here in NC, I swear they're every 10 minutes down the road.

https://locations.wafflehouse.com/

[tony]

So I had to look, there was at least some truth to my post. St. Joe is the northern most in that part of the country, which was where I lived at the time. I see other locations farther East that are North of St. Joe. Also maybe Ft. Collins.

Here in NC, I swear they're every 10 minutes down the road.

https://locations.wafflehouse.com/

I've been to one in Bethlehem, PA and there's one in Allentown and one in Scranton too. It might be a rust belt thing because there are some around Youngstown.

Waffle House would be a good fit in Fargo, I think.

[td577]

I've never been to a waffle house sober. 9528

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[Bison 4 Life]

I used to live really close to a Waffle House, now I'd need to drive at least 20 minutes to get to one.

[oldmantutters]

I used to live really close to a Waffle House, now I'd need to drive at least 20 minutes to get to one.Cool story bro.

Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk

[56BISON73]

I've been to one in Bethlehem, PA and there's one in Allentown and one in Scranton too. It might be a rust belt thing because there are some around Youngstown.

Waffle House would be a good fit in Fargo, I think.

https://locations.wafflehouse.com/

[ndsubison1]

Remember theres a Sonic in West Fargo too ;)