Forum's "War on NDSU"

[ndsubison1]

When will it end. Thought I'd start another thread because I like my title name

http://www.inforum.com/event/article/id/278370/

[Grizzled]

The Forum is reporting news. This is news that Joe Chapman knew would eventually come out but didn't care. He pushed forward, got his projects done the way he had to get them and moved on. This will continue to be news because the SBoHE will now put new policies in place and everytime they do they will reference the audit and projects at NDSU. Do I fault Champman, no I don't. I don't agree with him either. I think he maybe made things a little more difficult for NDSU down the road as there will be a microscope on all projects or spending we do but he also left NDSU better than what it was when he got here.

[Swany]

Come on, "War on NDSU?" Please. Remove the blinders. What happened at NDSU was nothing short of an abuse of power. The Forum is reporting facts. How is that declaring "war" on NDSU? The short answer: it's not. We, as a university, watched as the empire was built, but refused to question the emporer, on anything. Now, we are paying for it.

NDSU needs to be called to the carpet on this one, and more importantly, should take steps internally to acknowledge they recognize mistakes were made and they are working to correct them. It is possible that the law was violated with regards to Barry Hall. And you want The Forum, and other media sources, to turn their heads because this story has already been covered? This isn't an "us versus them" story. NDSU was wrong. Plain and simple.

The attitude coming from many on this board borders on Machiavellian, i.e., the ends justify the means. NDSU kicked butt, took names, surpassed UND, etc., so it's all okay. Well, it's not all okay. This audit/investigation/reporting has no hidden agenda to bash NDSU. There is no witch hunt. Bottom line, there was a pure and unadulterated abuse of power at NDSU stemming from the very top and nobody dared question it out of fear of reprisal.

It is disappointing the environment at NDSU reached such a point where people feared for their jobs if they questioned that power. As alums, fans, financial supporters, citizens of North Dakota, etc., we should demand more. We should demand accountability. We should demand leaders who don't threaten "hell to be paid" unless they get their way. It isn't un-NDSU, or bashing the Bison, to express frustration or outrage at what happened.

Don't shift the blame. The Forum didn't break any laws or foster a workplace where employees feared for their jobs if they spoke up against wrongdoing. Sunlight is the ultimate disinfectant, and it appears at NDSU, we needed this sunlight in the worst way.

[WYOBISONMAN]

I think it has become clear through this audit that in the end, Chapman was not behaving in a way that positive for NDSU. There are very serious issues that have been uncovered some of which appear to be not only unethical, but in violation of the law. People were threatened with thier jobs, lies were told and the behavior was as if the end justified the mean.

I like a lot of what Joe Chapman did for NDSU but, as alumni, we need to be objective about this as well. In the final days what Chapman did hurt NDSU and our credibility. We need to be honest about what took place, acknowlege it was wrong and move on to new leadership.

The Forum is reporting an important news story, but is not on the attack. The Forum would be breaching the public trust if this story was not reported. It is news, big news.

[mebisonII]

Agreed. If this happened at any other school in the state we'd be crying for blood.

I dearly hope our next president has the vision of Chapman without the power-trip he seemed to have at the end.

The good thing is that I think we can have both. The things that look like ethical/public-trust breeches (the house, office remodeling, trip to DC) are not fundamentally what drove growth over the last decade.

[spelunker64]

I thought Joe left 6 months ago, lets move on with new guy. Can't wait till FB season, so we can drop these arguments. :)

[SDbison]

Come on, "War on NDSU?" Please. Remove the blinders. What happened at NDSU was nothing short of an abuse of power. The Forum is reporting facts. How is that declaring "war" on NDSU? The short answer: it's not. We, as a university, watched as the empire was built, but refused to question the emporer, on anything. Now, we are paying for it.

NDSU needs to be called to the carpet on this one, and more importantly, should take steps internally to acknowledge they recognize mistakes were made and they are working to correct them. It is possible that the law was violated with regards to Barry Hall. And you want The Forum, and other media sources, to turn their heads because this story has already been covered? This isn't an "us versus them" story. NDSU was wrong. Plain and simple.

The attitude coming from many on this board borders on Machiavellian, i.e., the ends justify the means. NDSU kicked butt, took names, surpassed UND, etc., so it's all okay. Well, it's not all okay. This audit/investigation/reporting has no hidden agenda to bash NDSU. There is no witch hunt. Bottom line, there was a pure and unadulterated abuse of power at NDSU stemming from the very top and nobody dared question it out of fear of reprisal.

It is disappointing the environment at NDSU reached such a point where people feared for their jobs if they questioned that power. As alums, fans, financial supporters, citizens of North Dakota, etc., we should demand more. We should demand accountability. We should demand leaders who don't threaten "hell to be paid" unless they get their way. It isn't un-NDSU, or bashing the Bison, to express frustration or outrage at what happened.

Don't shift the blame. The Forum didn't break any laws or foster a workplace where employees feared for their jobs if they spoke up against wrongdoing. Sunlight is the ultimate disinfectant, and it appears at NDSU, we needed this sunlight in the worst way.
Give me a break.......some of you act like this was some sort of Watergate. All taken into consideration the university grew in many ways due to positive attitudes and private fundraising. The state got a great deal and the university is much better overall. The forum is just a bunch of hack writers trying to blow this up into a bigger thing that will sell newspapers.

[SDbison]

I just finished reading the article in the Forum today. All I can say is it seems like many people involved find it easy now to make criticisms of Chapman now that he isn't around and an audit is underway. Hmmmm, yeah if I could only openly make criticisms of my boss and top management at the company I work all hell would break loose too.......
Man they pressured me hard to get things done and I didn't feel I could tell them I am not working late tonight for fear of losing my job.
Welcome to the real world.

[SDbison]

Give me a break.......some of you act like this was some sort of Watergate. All taken into consideration the university grew in many ways due to positive attitudes and private fundraising. The state got a great deal and the university is much better overall. The forum is just a bunch of hack writers trying to blow this up into a bigger thing that will sell newspapers.
Also, isn't WDAY tied closely with Forum Communications.........seems WDAY got cut out of the NDSU sports broadcast deal recently.......could that be a reason for the constant anti NDSU themes?

[lakesbison]

CHAPMAN WAS OUR 'ROBIN HOOD!!'

the sbohe + legislature treated NDSU as equals to minot st, valley city, etc,

Chapman got us our 'righteous due' for what 2-3 projects?? THANK GOD!

[TransAmBison]

Lakes, I think you had the best post so far. I read the article and after each point I basically thought, so what. Chapman had to push hard to get things done. You don't get the kind of surge NDSU got by always playing nice. Look at how funds were distributed before Chapman. C'mon people, things were not fair. You really think people were going to just roll over and give NDSU equal funds? Do you think we would see all the growth by not pushing? Pushing hard. Chapman made a lot of things happen, and all of them will benefit NDSU for a long time. They guy is a hero. Yeah, you don't get what he accomplished without upsetting some people. Just isn't going to happen. Now, it is easier to blame him. Ever heard of a scapegoat? Yeah, I believe plenty of things said are true, but how much more blame could be pushed his way to keep blame away from others? Anyway, of all the things found out so far, I really don't see a big deal. The guy was probably the best thing ever to happen to NDSU.

[NDSUstudent]

I do think the Forum has sensationalized this a bit. But if talking about this now puts it to bed sooner then it has to happen. I'd rather take our licks now so the future president can come in with all this behind us.

[mebisonII]

Nope, sorry, some of what was done was flat out sleight-of-hand and knowingly ducking rules without caring about the consequences. You (not any one poster in particular) can spin it to say the ends justify the means, or that its ok for us to cheat since we don't get our fair share of funding, I don't buy that.

3 things I will give the objectors:

1) The newspapers seem to be much more interested in pointing out NDSU's abuses than UND's. That still doesn't make what happened at NDSU right.

2) There are plenty of people out there looking for reasons to bash NDSU while ignoring all the positives.

3) Its always easy to throw the guy who isn't here anymore under the bus. Nonetheless, the people who may be doing this are NDSU people, so it reflects badly on us anyways.

[TransAmBison]

Nope, sorry, some of what was done was flat out sleight-of-hand and knowingly ducking rules without caring about the consequences. You (not any one poster in particular) can spin it to say the ends justify the means, or that its ok for us to cheat since we don't get our fair share of funding, I don't buy that.

3 things I will give the objectors:

1) The newspapers seem to be much more interested in pointing out NDSU's abuses than UND's. That still doesn't make what happened at NDSU right.

2) There are plenty of people out there looking for reasons to bash NDSU while ignoring all the positives.

3) Its always easy to throw the guy who isn't here anymore under the bus. Nonetheless, the people who may be doing this are NDSU people, so it reflects badly on us anyways.
Hey, you have points and I can see why you think the way you do. Very valid justification and a respectable opinion. That said, I am glad the projects got done. I wouldn't change a thing. Do I think Chapman was tough and pushed hard? Yeah I do...and I respect him for it. He set goals and made them happen. Now NDSU will get to reap the reward. This crap will go away, and when the dust settles we have a ton of rewards from his hard work.*






*Alright, this is two posts in a row that does not drift from the subject, inject useless humor, inject what I think is humor, or otherwise add useless banter. I feel dirty.**
**That's what she said.***
***She did not say that to Bisonator

[SDbison]

Hey, you have points and I can see why you think the way you do. Very valid justification and a respectable opinion. That said, I am glad the projects got done. I wouldn't change a thing. Do I think Chapman was tough and pushed hard? Yeah I do...and I respect him for it. He set goals and made them happen. Now NDSU will get to reap the reward. This crap will go away, and when the dust settles we have a ton of rewards from his hard work.*





*Alright, this is two posts in a row that does not drift from the subject, inject useless humor, inject what I think is humor, or otherwise add useless banter. I feel dirty.**
**That's what she said.***
***She did not say that to Bisonator
Are you OK TransAm? That's what she said.
I think you need to ge back to the scammer threads cause you have put too much effort into this topic.

[BlueBisonRock]

Too many folks are looking to make this a black and white story rather than looking to understand the actions in context. Frankly, there is a whole lot of grey area inside of these actions. Some actions get right up to the fence, some stradle the fence, and some may cross the fence.

The two big areas I see being debated are governance and abuse of position. To me, the governance process used is the most confusing. In the corporate world, the CEO and Sr. Executives are responsible for all expenditures including projects. This does not mean that every expenditure must be approved by the top dog in the hierarchy (in this case the SBoE and Gov.). It does state that a solid process is in place to manage and account for these expenditures to prove that fradulent activities are not in place.

The rumor mill has brought out a number of different perceptions regarding how governance is applied. Some of the transgressions appear to be the result of changing governance practices, then finding that the approach did not meet the new requirements. (What was that clip level again). Some were the result of not understanding or playing games with the practices in place. Other transgressions simply did not meet the governance requirements.

My conclusion based on facts and rumors discussed in letters, the audit, and on this board is that the governance being used does need to be better defined. Adding another auditor per the audit recommendations appears to be an empire building exercise. Adding an experienced construction professional to provide governance focus across all SBoE projectsshould add value and help address this exposure. Improving, not tightening, the governance process will also prevent future issues.

I am shaking my head regarding the abuse of position comments. Again, in the corporate world an individual will be challenged to get the job done (resource, schedule, scope / objectives met) and will know that their job is on the line if a history of nonaccomplishment is shown. Being reminded of this can certainly piss one off, but is not an illegal or unethical behavior.

One (the indivdual who believes their job is threatened) also should know how to present an alternative plan that makes the exposure real clear when executives are ignoring or do not understand governance and common sense. This skill does not appear to be present in the discussions which are now point out the blame. 'But he told me to' does not resolve blame. Follow SD's rule and step up.

There are a lot of folks who are guilty of poor decision making with these NDSU (and the other ND) projects. There is no doubt that actions need to be taken and processes need to be changed. These changes need to be focused on improving the process, not in making a political statement and simply punishing a surrogate.

[NorthernBison]

No doubt that Forum Communications has an axe to grind with NDSU. Still, this is BIG NEWS. A state audit found clear and convincing evidence that Universities in the state flaunted policy and there might even be violations of state law. Now the SBoHE is going to dig further. A member of the Board who happens to be a Senator (Espegard) is looking for blood. Boys, this is far from over.

Joe Chapman knew darn well what was going on. He knew way more about the house details than originally indicated. He knew about splitting projects to subvert SBoHE policy. He knew that the Barry Hall project was off the rails in a big way. I think he made a conscious decision to make sure that the things he thought were important to NDSU got done. I am confident that he made the decisions with the full knowledge that he could never survive the fallout. That's why he hung in there until things were far enough along that they couldn't go back, then he resigned and called for an audit.

Why call for an audit? Joe knew darn well that having bad news come to light a little at a time would hurt more than a big dose all at once. He also knew that the crap splattered around would not stick to his replacement. I'm pretty sure he also knew that UND and maybe other Institutions were splitting projects so an audit would bring everybody's sins to light.

Oversight in the future will be stricter than it was in the past. Maybe that's not a bad thing. We'll have to wait and see.

[TransAmBison]

Too many folks are looking to make this a black and white story rather than looking to understand the actions in context. Frankly, there is a whole lot of grey area inside of these actions. Some actions get right up to the fence, some stradle the fence, and some may cross the fence.

What are you Canadian? Take your "grey" somewhere else buddy! :D

[56BISON73]

Iam finding it hard to believe that some here think illegal behavior is justifiable.
As much as I liked Joe--Joe threw himself under the bus. Not the Forum. The Forum(as much as I dislike them) Is reporting news and this story just keeps getting bigger.

Now the question is will the Forum report the improprieties associated with the UND Presidents house as well????

[lakesbison]

NOTHING ILLEGAL. this is within the confines of their "INTERNAL SYSTEM" not the legal system of the united states court system. Geez PL.

[TransAmBison]

NOTHING ILLEGAL. this is within the confines of their "INTERNAL SYSTEM" not the legal system of the united states court system. Geez PL.
Have to agree with Lakes again.

[02Bison]

Come on, "War on NDSU?" Please. Remove the blinders. What happened at NDSU was nothing short of an abuse of power. The Forum is reporting facts. How is that declaring "war" on NDSU? The short answer: it's not. We, as a university, watched as the empire was built, but refused to question the emporer, on anything. Now, we are paying for it.

NDSU needs to be called to the carpet on this one, and more importantly, should take steps internally to acknowledge they recognize mistakes were made and they are working to correct them. It is possible that the law was violated with regards to Barry Hall. And you want The Forum, and other media sources, to turn their heads because this story has already been covered? This isn't an "us versus them" story. NDSU was wrong. Plain and simple.

The attitude coming from many on this board borders on Machiavellian, i.e., the ends justify the means. NDSU kicked butt, took names, surpassed UND, etc., so it's all okay. Well, it's not all okay. This audit/investigation/reporting has no hidden agenda to bash NDSU. There is no witch hunt. Bottom line, there was a pure and unadulterated abuse of power at NDSU stemming from the very top and nobody dared question it out of fear of reprisal.

It is disappointing the environment at NDSU reached such a point where people feared for their jobs if they questioned that power. As alums, fans, financial supporters, citizens of North Dakota, etc., we should demand more. We should demand accountability. We should demand leaders who don't threaten "hell to be paid" unless they get their way. It isn't un-NDSU, or bashing the Bison, to express frustration or outrage at what happened.

Don't shift the blame. The Forum didn't break any laws or foster a workplace where employees feared for their jobs if they spoke up against wrongdoing. Sunlight is the ultimate disinfectant, and it appears at NDSU, we needed this sunlight in the worst way.

Exactly...well said.

[02Bison]

Give me a break.......some of you act like this was some sort of Watergate. All taken into consideration the university grew in many ways due to positive attitudes and private fundraising. The state got a great deal and the university is much better overall. The forum is just a bunch of hack writers trying to blow this up into a bigger thing that will sell newspapers.

Wrong. The Forum is reporting the news and the facts...

[TransAmBison]

Wrong. The Forum is reporting the news and the facts...
Whoa there buddy. Their circulation is down. They need controversy. Controversy sells newspapers. And, NDSU does not exactly have the best relationship with Forum/WDAY anymore. Just sayin'. They are not guilty or going for the throat or anything like that (despite what Lakes says/thinks) but they want controversy.*






*What is wrong with me. I need to go back to the Demotivational thread. :D

[silkamilkamonico]

NOTHING ILLEGAL. this is within the confines of their "INTERNAL SYSTEM" not the legal system of the united states court system. Geez PL.

Certainly not illegal, but he did things at the expense of 2 people's career, and there might be more to follow. Talk to anyone directly working with Chapman about his shady decision making, and you're going to find many more practices.

He did a great job getting NDSU to where it is today, and created a stone block for their future growth at the same time, unfortunately.

[silkamilkamonico]

On the flip side of this argument, there is a great letter to the editor in the opinions section from Mike Krueger, president of the Alumni Association, that discusses all the positives that has happened to NDSU, like the growth in enrollment, the research dollars being invested into ND, the fact that NDSU is now recognized as one of the top 100 Universities in the nation, and the impact that NDSU has had in to the community of Fargo, all in the last 10 years.

Excellent article, and I wish I knew how to post it if it was online, which I don't even know.

[NorthernBison]

NOTHING ILLEGAL. this is within the confines of their "INTERNAL SYSTEM" not the legal system of the united states court system. Geez PL.

Hold your horses there until we hear from the AG. The President's house and the Office project fall within the confines of what you are talking about.

The Barry Hall creative financing project MIGHT be illegal according to State law. NDSU was not authorized to obligate the taxpayers for this. By having the Foundation issue bonds that can only be repaid from rents for which NDSU is contractually obligated, that is pretty much what occurred.

The audit requested an opinion on this. We'll have to see what the decision is.

[westriver bison]

Come on, "War on NDSU?" Please. Remove the blinders. What happened at NDSU was nothing short of an abuse of power. The Forum is reporting facts. How is that declaring "war" on NDSU? The short answer: it's not. We, as a university, watched as the empire was built, but refused to question the emporer, on anything. Now, we are paying for it.

NDSU needs to be called to the carpet on this one, and more importantly, should take steps internally to acknowledge they recognize mistakes were made and they are working to correct them. It is possible that the law was violated with regards to Barry Hall. And you want The Forum, and other media sources, to turn their heads because this story has already been covered? This isn't an "us versus them" story. NDSU was wrong. Plain and simple.

The attitude coming from many on this board borders on Machiavellian, i.e., the ends justify the means. NDSU kicked butt, took names, surpassed UND, etc., so it's all okay. Well, it's not all okay. This audit/investigation/reporting has no hidden agenda to bash NDSU. There is no witch hunt. Bottom line, there was a pure and unadulterated abuse of power at NDSU stemming from the very top and nobody dared question it out of fear of reprisal.

It is disappointing the environment at NDSU reached such a point where people feared for their jobs if they questioned that power. As alums, fans, financial supporters, citizens of North Dakota, etc., we should demand more. We should demand accountability. We should demand leaders who don't threaten "hell to be paid" unless they get their way. It isn't un-NDSU, or bashing the Bison, to express frustration or outrage at what happened.

Don't shift the blame. The Forum didn't break any laws or foster a workplace where employees feared for their jobs if they spoke up against wrongdoing. Sunlight is the ultimate disinfectant, and it appears at NDSU, we needed this sunlight in the worst way.

:nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod:

[56BISON73]

NOTHING ILLEGAL. this is within the confines of their "INTERNAL SYSTEM" not the legal system of the united states court system. Geez PL.

I guess I should have worded it differently----

Was it not illegal within the states educational internal system? Or better yet let me phrase it this way---he broke a shit pot full rules and played 3 card monty with a host of funding rules.
Makes no difference how you word it the message is still the same as it has given this institution a huge black eye and I dont like it despite what he accomplished..

[SDbison]

I guess I should have worded it differently----

Was it not illegal within the states educational internal system? Or better yet let me phrase it this way---he broke a shit pot full rules and played 3 card monty with a host of funding rules.
Makes no difference how you word it the message is still the same as it has given this institution a huge black eye and I dont like it despite what he accomplished..
Sorry, but I think Chapman did a great job in the name of making NDSU better. Just a bunch of whiners complaining and piling on now. The SOBHE is a joke and has always had a bias towards UND. Too bad some of the losers at NDSU now want to play politics. Just tighten up the approval and monitering structure so a half year of delays due to bureacracy can be increased to a fulll year. Chapman had to fight tooth and nail to get everything done or else close to nothing would have happened. In the end the state still pays little or nothing. Some of you need to grow some balls and quit apoligizing.

[runtheoption]

What are you Canadian? Take your "grey" somewhere else buddy! :D

I'm not your buddy, guy!

[TransAmBison]

I'm not your buddy, guy!
You hoser, eh!

[Tatanka]

I'm not your buddy, guy!

I'm not your guy, friend!*

* Not that there's anything wrong with that.

[SDbison]

Too many folks are looking to make this a black and white story rather than looking to understand the actions in context. Frankly, there is a whole lot of grey area inside of these actions. Some actions get right up to the fence, some stradle the fence, and some may cross the fence.

The two big areas I see being debated are governance and abuse of position. To me, the governance process used is the most confusing. In the corporate world, the CEO and Sr. Executives are responsible for all expenditures including projects. This does not mean that every expenditure must be approved by the top dog in the hierarchy (in this case the SBoE and Gov.). It does state that a solid process is in place to manage and account for these expenditures to prove that fradulent activities are not in place.

The rumor mill has brought out a number of different perceptions regarding how governance is applied. Some of the transgressions appear to be the result of changing governance practices, then finding that the approach did not meet the new requirements. (What was that clip level again). Some were the result of not understanding or playing games with the practices in place. Other transgressions simply did not meet the governance requirements.

My conclusion based on facts and rumors discussed in letters, the audit, and on this board is that the governance being used does need to be better defined. Adding another auditor per the audit recommendations appears to be an empire building exercise. Adding an experienced construction professional to provide governance focus across all SBoE projectsshould add value and help address this exposure. Improving, not tightening, the governance process will also prevent future issues.

I am shaking my head regarding the abuse of position comments. Again, in the corporate world an individual will be challenged to get the job done (resource, schedule, scope / objectives met) and will know that their job is on the line if a history of nonaccomplishment is shown. Being reminded of this can certainly piss one off, but is not an illegal or unethical behavior.

One (the indivdual who believes their job is threatened) also should know how to present an alternative plan that makes the exposure real clear when executives are ignoring or do not understand governance and common sense. This skill does not appear to be present in the discussions which are now point out the blame. 'But he told me to' does not resolve blame. Follow SD's rule and step up.

There are a lot of folks who are guilty of poor decision making with these NDSU (and the other ND) projects. There is no doubt that actions need to be taken and processes need to be changed. These changes need to be focused on improving the process, not in making a political statement and simply punishing a surrogate.
Great Post BBR....rep to you. We just need to ignore the backwards thinkers here that love bureacratic controls and bigger bureacracy.

[runtheoption]

I'm not your guy, friend!*

* Not that there's anything wrong with that.

I'm not your friend, buddy!

Hijack alert....

[TransAmBison]

I'm not your friend, buddy!

Hijack alert....
Prepare to get JACKED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[runtheoption]

Prepare to get JACKED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Is there an "I Give BJ's" tattoo involved here?

[56BISON73]

Sorry, but I think Chapman did a great job in the name of making NDSU better. Just a bunch of whiners complaining and piling on now. The SOBHE is a joke and has always had a bias towards UND. Too bad some of the losers at NDSU now want to play politics. Just tighten up the approval and monitering structure so a half year of delays due to bureacracy can be increased to a fulll year. Chapman had to fight tooth and nail to get everything done or else close to nothing would have happened. In the end the state still pays little or nothing. Some of you need to grow some balls and quit apoligizing.

Im not apologizing for anything.
You cant call it piling on when what he did was flat out wrong. If it wasnt wrong he wouldnt have resigned.
Its easy to sit back and say look at what he did. YEAH--we werent getting our fair due so there. He did what he had to do.
What kind of moral levity allows for such a swing of the pendulum when determining right from wrong??? Then bitch when it becomes news.:confused:

[ndsubison1]

Wrong. The Forum is reporting the news and the facts...

Waiting for them to report the good stuff. Like in Mr. Kruegers letter

[ndsubison1]

Come on, "War on NDSU?" Please. Remove the blinders. What happened at NDSU was nothing short of an abuse of power. The Forum is reporting facts. How is that declaring "war" on NDSU? The short answer: it's not. We, as a university, watched as the empire was built, but refused to question the emporer, on anything. Now, we are paying for it.

NDSU needs to be called to the carpet on this one, and more importantly, should take steps internally to acknowledge they recognize mistakes were made and they are working to correct them. It is possible that the law was violated with regards to Barry Hall. And you want The Forum, and other media sources, to turn their heads because this story has already been covered? This isn't an "us versus them" story. NDSU was wrong. Plain and simple.

The attitude coming from many on this board borders on Machiavellian, i.e., the ends justify the means. NDSU kicked butt, took names, surpassed UND, etc., so it's all okay. Well, it's not all okay. This audit/investigation/reporting has no hidden agenda to bash NDSU. There is no witch hunt. Bottom line, there was a pure and unadulterated abuse of power at NDSU stemming from the very top and nobody dared question it out of fear of reprisal.

It is disappointing the environment at NDSU reached such a point where people feared for their jobs if they questioned that power. As alums, fans, financial supporters, citizens of North Dakota, etc., we should demand more. We should demand accountability. We should demand leaders who don't threaten "hell to be paid" unless they get their way. It isn't un-NDSU, or bashing the Bison, to express frustration or outrage at what happened.

Don't shift the blame. The Forum didn't break any laws or foster a workplace where employees feared for their jobs if they spoke up against wrongdoing. Sunlight is the ultimate disinfectant, and it appears at NDSU, we needed this sunlight in the worst way.

It's what? Their bazillionth article on Chapman? Time to move on

[02Bison]

You can choose to disagree with me but those who are choosing to negative rep me for saying I think the Forum is just reporting the news, you just plain stink!

[silkamilkamonico]

It's what? Their bazillionth article on Chapman? Time to move on

I agree. Chapman certainly has.

[silkamilkamonico]

You can choose to disagree with me but those who are choosing to negative rep me for saying I think the Forum is just reporting the news, you just plain stink!

That's a f'n joke, and one of the reasons why there should be no such thing as a positive-negative rep system.

[tjbison]

That's a f'n joke, and one of the reasons why there should be no such thing as a positive-negative rep system.


If its used in that way yes, not like 02 was calling people names and trolling

[silkamilkamonico]

If its used in that way yes, not like 02 was calling people names and trolling

Too bad that can't be monitored. It's a good system for quality posts and trolling/namecalling like you said, but to disagree with an opinin by negative repping them is laughable.

[lakesbison]

omg, quit being so sensitive, who cares if you get a pos or neg rep? seroiusly.

I have plenty of both. (and no i didnt neg rep you silk)


the FORUM is dying, plain DYING, and they are holding on for dear life to the anti-ndsu crowd and playing up to them. its a joke.

[BlueBisonRock]

Great Post BBR....rep to you. We just need to ignore the backwards thinkers here that love bureacratic controls and bigger bureacracy.

Thanks. Survived too many internal witch hunts to accept the words that leak out. Yes, I suspect that there are irregularities, but am waiting for the facts to come out before judging anyone.

(No, the published audit did not tell any story of substance...)

[lakesbison]

Now it trickled down to WDAY sports.

tonights sports on fox & ch 4/11 (talked about kole with hi lights) and mentioned softball tourney.

WDAY? nothing, zero, zilch. classy.

[silkamilkamonico]

omg, quit being so sensitive, who cares if you get a pos or neg rep? seroiusly.

I have plenty of both. (and no i didnt neg rep you silk)
.

You negged me in that other thread Lakes a while back, but no worries, I did have it coming.

[coldspot]

omg, quit being so sensitive, who cares if you get a pos or neg rep? seroiusly.

I have plenty of both. (and no i didnt neg rep you silk)


the FORUM is dying, plain DYING, and they are holding on for dear life to the anti-ndsu crowd and playing up to them. its a joke.

i know its been said before, but the entire newspaper industry is dying and they all are hanging on for dear life, doing whatever they can to cling on to existence. the ndsu football player arrest "story" at the baseball game a few weeks back is a prime example of what newspapers are going to do now. theyre not reporting the news anymore, theyre trying to make news so they have something "exclusive" to report.

[Facts]

Whoa there buddy. Their circulation is down. They need controversy. Controversy sells newspapers. And, NDSU does not exactly have the best relationship with Forum/WDAY anymore. Just sayin'. They are not guilty or going for the throat or anything like that (despite what Lakes says/thinks) but they want controversy.*



"Cause it feels so empty without me..."
this looks like a job for the forum
if we wanna make a point
we better just ignore'm
"cause, they need alittle controversy..."
to keep selling papers
cause the internet is free

Take it away TAB...

[TransAmBison]

"Cause it feels so empty without me..."
this looks like a job for the for forum
if we wanna make a point
we better just ignore'm
"cause, they need alittle controversy..."
to keep selling papers
cause the internet is free

Take it away TAB...
Rep to you good sir!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Well played!

[80ALUM]

If any of the actions were illegal I am sure there would have been some talk of charges by now so no nothing illegal. Three people have already resigned since the controversy began. What more do people want? Time to move on. BTW how many connected to the UND issue have resigned? None that I know of. If alumni are disgruntled let it be reflected in their donations. I do not plan to let it affect my donations.

[Tatanka]

Are you suggesting that UND is getting a free pass on this because of the bigger taint on NDSU?

[Facts]

Are you suggesting that UND is getting a free pass on this because of the bigger taint on NDSU?

Butt Tatanka, why must you taint our discussion with this azzhattery.