Option/Veer Question

[CaBisonFan]

OK...so I've been watching these old vids pretty carefully...and a lot of things jump out at me that I didn't notice when I was at some of these games.

It seems like Bentrim (especially) and Simdorn had a style of pitch that I haven't seen anywhere else. It was almost like a handoff...a quick flick of the ball a matter of a few feet away, or less.

In most option offenses of this era, the pitches seem longer. Yes...there were some longer ones from Bentrim & Simmy...but the back ran very close to them.

Did this have to do with the veer specifically...or was it just something that Bison QB's did?

I love watching those quick pitch/handoffs. They were lethal. Obviously, the offensive line had to really have it together so that the QB felt comfortable.

Comments? Any are welcome...but how about some comments from the guys who were actually out there?

[Bison_Backer]

Our Mesh was a little Deeper then your standrard Veer offense because we really didn't read anyone, so our pitch backs were closer to the Qb then normal. Second the basket ball flick is well documented technique that is used in more advanced option schemes.

For Example in our base Keep/pitch play we actually didn't read a guy for the dive mesh that was just a fake the Qb was reading the end for keep or pitch thats why we were able to fake Pitch so quick. We weren't making two reads just one. I would suggest look at an NDSU playbook 42/43 Series.

If you don't have a playbook email me I'll send you one.

[Notorious]

Our Mesh was a little Deeper then your standrard Veer offense because we really didn't read anyone, so our pitch backs were closer to the Qb then normal. Second the basket ball flick is well documented technique that is used in more advanced option schemes.

For Example in our base Keep/pitch play we actually didn't read a guy for the dive mesh that was just a fake the Qb was reading the end for keep or pitch thats why we were able to fake Pitch so quick. We weren't making two reads just one. I would suggest look at an NDSU playbook 42/43 Series.

If you don't have a playbook email me I'll send you one.

This "series" actually was a true triple read. There were several others that resembled it which were not a true triple read; however, the 42/43 series was...contrary to popular belief, there were more than 2 plays in the playbook back then...haha!

Also, the split-back veer would inherintly bring the running backs closer to the QB based on alignment alone....4-5 yard depth compared to an i-formation at 7-9 yards.

[OrygunBison]

Should I be paying for this class?

[Notorious]

Should I be paying for this class?

Yes. Send your $$$ to Arden Beachy.

[Bison_Backer]

During Earles Tenure it was a true triple read, but as we moved along it just became to much to read the inside veer play so it became 42/43 Zone which became Load.

The though process came down to Why teach the inside veer as a true trip0le when we get just as much out of the Cut back play. Also the hard zone dive held The fast flowing backers. I the last couple years of the veer the only true triple play was Outside veer, the rest were called or a double.

As for the alignment issue it depended on the back and his speed but your right the depth was between 3.5 and 5. Also you will note that as our backs got slower in the later years we used alot of fly motion to get them into proper pitch relationship.

[THEsocalledfan]

Man, guys, I enjoyed the glory days as much as everyone else, but don't you have something better to do? If bored, you can:

1. Snowblow my driveway
2. Salt my driveway as there is lots of ice
3. Chip the ice off my driveway
3. Vacuum my floors in my house (with the baby, we are very busy)
4. Clean my toilets
5. Wash our clothes

So, who wants to keep busy? (Honest, Shawn-O did not put me up to this!)

[Bison_Backer]

Pay attention, you might learn something.

[TransAmBison]

Man, guys, I enjoyed the glory days as much as everyone else, but don't you have something better to do? If bored, you can:

1. Snowblow my driveway
2. Salt my driveway as there is lots of ice
3. Chip the ice off my driveway
3. Vacuum my floors in my house (with the baby, we are very busy)
4. Clean my toilets
5. Wash our clothes

So, who wants to keep busy? (Honest, Shawn-O did not put me up to this!)
If you are so busy, why are you on Bisonville reading this thread? Seriously, some good info here...let it be.

[THEsocalledfan]

If you are so busy, why are you on Bisonville reading this thread? Seriously, some good info here...let it be.

Respect the past, don't live in it.....

[JackJD]

Respect the past, don't live in it.....

That's cliche. There is some interesting info on this thread and it's not living in the past.

For posters who really seem to know the x's and o's: why won't effective offensive schemes from the past work today (assuming the right personnel)? I suppose defenses become more sophisticated and evolve to handle the latest offense but as offenses and defenses continually change, wouldn't it work to every once in a while dip back into the past for some offensive firepower? (Hey, I love watching football but will quickly admit I don't know the fine, technical points. Learned something in this thread.)

[HerdBot]

That's cliche. There is some interesting info on this thread and it's not living in the past.

For posters who really seem to know the x's and o's: why won't effective offensive schemes from the past work today (assuming the right personnel)? I suppose defenses become more sophisticated and evolve to handle the latest offense but as offenses and defenses continually change, wouldn't it work to every once in a while dip back into the past for some offensive firepower? (Hey, I love watching football but will quickly admit I don't know the fine, technical points. Learned something in this thread.)

Do some research and you will find out that many top programs still run elements of the veer. It's effective, just not as sexy as the passing game. Actually the Titans ran the veer this year with Vince Young and Chris Johnson. It confused the heck out of the defenses and worked. It's a great play but not a great offense and should be used, but maybe not as base offense.

[Bison_Backer]

Some offense still would work some wouldn't some defense would some wouldn't. The Veer is just as viable now as it was back then, just like Wishbone is making a come back( Geo Tech, Navy, Army). Most teams are running the veer now from the Gun and Florida is basically running the mid west Veer from the Gun with Mostly Double options. The Zone Read is Reverse Inside Veer. Its just a different way to skin a cat.


The Run and shoot still works, its just people are putting in wrinkles and dressing it up. Lets look at Georgia Tech. How far away are they from Oklahoma of the 70's and 80's. The main difference is the Run a broken set instead of lining up three in the backfield. The Jackets run a hell of alot more midline and Oklahoma liked the Belly play.


Carson Newman has been split back veer since Christ was a corporal and they continue to be ranked in the top 5.

It comes down to personal preference. I guess alot of guys that were in these systems didn't go into coaching. They guys that run pro offenses did. Although Shame on Vigen ;)