Unfireable Head Coach

[Bison06]

Lately I have been wondering what makes a school decide that through thick and thin they have found their guy to coach the football team. What makes Penn State decide to keep Joe Paterno for this long, what makes Florida State keep Bobby Bowden all of these years? What would it take for a coach to become this type of coach for the Bison, 1 national championship, 2? I am always curious about this because in this day and age in college football winning is everything. It seems a coach has 2 maybe 3 years to bring a team to where the school wants it to be and then cans the guy if it doesn't happen quickly.

We have all been talking lately about all of the coaching turnover the Bison have experienced and looked at it as a negative to the program, but in the next breath we are quick to say that if Coach Bohl doesn't win 8 games next year he is done. Now, without looking I can say for certain that both Penn St. and Florida St. have had ups and downs during their respective coaches tenures, yet they weren't fired. Now certainly NDSU has great tradition in football, noone can argue that. But both Penn St. and Florida St. have more in my opinion and have fan bases that I'm sure are just as if not more critical of the program when things don't go well.

This post isn't to say lay off Coach Bohl, not one bit, I think he deserves some heat for our past 2 seasons. All I am asking is, if turnover is such a bad thing in the college football coaching world, why aren't we looking for some stability out of the head coach here. If we as a school and a fan base don't have any loyalty to our coaches, how do we expect quality assistants to come in and be loyal to the program and not leave when a higher paying job comes calling. At what point do we say, if ever, this coach is our guy good, bad or ugly, because he epitomizes Bison football and we want him to represent us?

[Tatanka]

Lately I have been wondering what makes a school decide that through thick and thin they have found their guy to coach the football team. What makes Penn State decide to keep Joe Paterno for this long, what makes Florida State keep Bobby Bowden all of these years? What would it take for a coach to become this type of coach for the Bison, 1 national championship, 2? I am always curious about this because in this day and age in college football winning is everything. It seems a coach has 2 maybe 3 years to bring a team to where the school wants it to be and then cans the guy if it doesn't happen quickly. We have all been talking lately about all of the coaching turnover the Bison have experienced and looked at it as a negative to the program, but in the next breath we are quick to say that if Coach Bohl doesn't win 8 games next year he is done. Now, without looking I can say for certain that both Penn St. and Florida St. have had ups and downs during their respective coaches tenures, yet they weren't fired. Now certainly NDSU has great tradition in football, noone can argue that. But both Penn St. and Florida St. have more in my opinion and have fan bases that I'm sure are just as if not more critical of the program when things don't go well. This post isn't to say lay off Coach Bohl, not one bit, I think he deserves some heat for our past 2 seasons. All I am asking is, if turnover is such a bad thing in the college football coaching world, why aren't we looking for some stability out of the head coach here. If we as a school and a fan base don't have any loyalty to our coaches, how do we expect quality assistants to come in and be loyal to the program and not leave when a higher paying job comes calling. At what point do we say, if ever, this coach is our guy good, bad or ugly, because he epitomizes Bison football and we want him to represent us?

http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff59/putralovers/paragraph.jpg

:D

[EndZoneQB]

Didn't even read it.

[Bison06]

You guys are hilarious, people post their thesis on here with no complaints and I push out a 300 word paragraph and get complaints. I'll edit.

[tjbison]

You guys are hilarious, people post their thesis on here with no complaints and I push out a 300 word paragraph and get complaints. I'll edit.


your fine leave it alone

[EndZoneQB]

You guys are hilarious, people post their thesis on here with no complaints and I push out a 300 word paragraph and get complaints. I'll edit.

And I don't read them either haha. Either way, just got home from work so I was just lazy in this case and felt like piling on. :)

[56BISON73]

I guess you have to define---who is WE? As far as administration is concerned I am sure they would love to have a low turn over rate. Administration has much more patience than boosters and fans.

Boosters and fans are great at knee jerk reactions and call for the coaches head when the record doesnt meet THEIR expectations.

I posted awhile back that if fans want loyalty out of coaches then they should be loyal to the coaches in the lean times as well. Anybody can be a fan when the team is winning.

[Bison06]

Let's be honest though, it is boosters who make the real decisions. Pressure from the people who donate to a program can get a coach fired in a hurry. But, the point still stands then, if this is the case why hasn't Joe Paterno been fired or why hasn't Bobby Bowden been let go until now. It has to be about more than wins and losses IMO. We need a coach who represents what NDSU is about and we need to keep him win, lose or draw. That way assistants who want to be here will come and stay and players will come here to be a part of something more than a football team. Just my opinion I guess.

[ndsubison1]

Let's be honest though, it is boosters who make the real decisions. Pressure from the people who donate to a program can get a coach fired in a hurry. But, the point still stands then, if this is the case why hasn't Joe Paterno been fired or why hasn't Bobby Bowden been let go until now. It has to be about more than wins and losses IMO. We need a coach who represents what NDSU is about and we need to keep him win, lose or draw. That way assistants who want to be here will come and stay and players will come here to be a part of something more than a football team. Just my opinion I guess.

because they're the two winningest coaches in college football

[Bison06]

Well I would argue that is because they have been the longest tenured coaches, not because they enjoyed the most success in the short term. You also can't tell me either of those programs hasn't had 2 seasons like we just had over the course of the program.

[rutlandbison]

Well I would argue that is because they have been the longest tenured coaches, not because they enjoyed the most success in the short term. You also can't tell me either of those programs hasn't had 2 seasons like we just had over the course of the program.
But why were they the longest tenured coaches? because they won and earned it. That's why they waited.

[56BISON73]

Let's be honest though, it is boosters who make the real decisions. Pressure from the people who donate to a program can get a coach fired in a hurry. But, the point still stands then, if this is the case why hasn't Joe Paterno been fired or why hasn't Bobby Bowden been let go until now. It has to be about more than wins and losses IMO. We need a coach who represents what NDSU is about and we need to keep him win, lose or draw. That way assistants who want to be here will come and stay and players will come here to be a part of something more than a football team. Just my opinion I guess.

Because admin didnt cave in to booster pressure. Not long ago there was a huge firestorm over Joe Pa and how the game had passed him by, he REALLY wasnt the head coach because the assistants were really running the team, etc etc etc.
Two years ago it was Iowas coach who was on the hot seat. Look where they finished this year.
No program stays on the top forever. Not long ago USC was a Juggernaut but not so now.
People really need to step back and put things in to perspective when it comes to a coach because it cant all be about winning. That doesnt always work out. Are they competitive? How does the coach conduct his business on and off the field? Does he graduate his players?
How does he handle adversity on and off the field? There is much more but an institution has to determine what is really important and the fans do also.

[CaBisonFan]

You guys are hilarious, people post their thesis on here with no complaints and I push out a 300 word paragraph and get complaints. I'll edit.

I resemble your challenge to my crown...and I've had many complaints...:cool:

Actually, I liked what you wrote. If people see a long post, they have the option to 'not read it.' Sometimes, an idea requires more than...'been there, done that, this, that, won't work, yup, or nope.'

[CaBisonFan]

Bowden had something like 15 straight years of being rated in the top 5 at the end of the year. To me, that's one of the greatest accomplishments in the history of college coaching. He was given a lot of slack because of what he did, and because they thought he'd pull it together again.

[Bison06]

But why were they the longest tenured coaches? because they won and earned it. That's why they waited.

This is the chicken or the egg conversation. In Bowden's case yes, he created a dynasty, but there still have been bad seasons, in fact a quite a few in a row. I have the same opinion as PL on this one. College football, especially at the level NDSU plays at, has to be about more than winning. It has to be about giving kids the opportunity to be a part of a family, a coach who cares about them and teaching them things other than football. That was the experience I had at NDSU, but I feel that may have gone by the way side without Coach Bradley around. If it were up to me, which it isn't, I would hire Casey Bradley to a lifetime head coaching job at NDSU and be done with it. He is the type of man that I would send my son or daughter to learn from.

[NorthernBison]

Impatience can be dangerous. I saw a post on another thread that asked if a 7-3 record in 2010 would save coach's job. I understand the sentiment behind the question and I wonder how much patience we have.

If 7-3 next year isn't good enough for you, do you have the patience to watch while a totally new staff comes in, possibly changes the entire offensive and defensive schemes, the players go through the learning curve, defections occur, new recruits must come online, and we struggle for another three or four years in the transition?

[56BISON73]

Impatience can be dangerous. I saw a post on another thread that asked if a 7-3 record in 2010 would save coach's job. I understand the sentiment behind the question and I wonder how much patience we have.

If 7-3 next year isn't good enough for you, do you have the patience to watch while a totally new staff comes in, possibly changes the entire offensive and defensive schemes, the players go through the learning curve, defections occur, new recruits must come online, and we struggle for another three or four years in the transition?

Well said.
There is one thing I would also like to say. Even though we have made the Official Adminisrtative transition from D2 to D1 I think we are still a few years off getting up to speed athletic-recruit wise in D1 on a consistant basis.

Myself I would love to see us at 7-3 next year.

Here is a link on Jerry moore from Appy. Hes had a few lean years as well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerry_Moore

[rutlandbison]

This is the chicken or the egg conversation. In Bowden's case yes, he created a dynasty, but there still have been bad seasons, in fact a quite a few in a row. I have the same opinion as PL on this one. College football, especially at the level NDSU plays at, has to be about more than winning. It has to be about giving kids the opportunity to be a part of a family, a coach who cares about them and teaching them things other than football. That was the experience I had at NDSU, but I feel that may have gone by the way side without Coach Bradley around. If it were up to me, which it isn't, I would hire Casey Bradley to a lifetime head coaching job at NDSU and be done with it. He is the type of man that I would send my son or daughter to learn from.
Joe Pa earned it. he had a couple times were it was back to back seasons of bad football but that's it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Paterno

Same with Bowden up until the last 4-6 years, which I will agree is too long to hang on to a guy if he can't bring back the greatness.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobby_Bowden

[X-Factor]

wahhhh?

JoPa went 3-9, followed by 4-7, then proceeded to rip off an 11-1 season and a victory in the Orange Bowl. Can the Bison do that next season? We were in practically every game this past year deep into the 4th quarter....just saying. I am looking at what we graduated, and Pat Paschall is just about it as far as trying to replace talent.

[BisonNolesFan77]

Joe Pa earned it. he had a couple times were it was back to back seasons of bad football but that's it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Paterno

Same with Bowden up until the last 4-6 years, which I will agree is too long to hang on to a guy if he can't bring back the greatness.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobby_Bowden

If most FSU fans had their way (Myself included), Bowden would have been gone about 5 years ago. Bowden earned the right just as much as Joe Pa did to stick around, 14 years in a ROW finishing ranked in the top 5 is something that will probably never be touched again, but their were many, many behind the scenes things that went on the past few years at FSU that showed it was time to move on.

I don't think any coach is unfireable in todays football world at the FBS level, it's a what have you done for me lately profession, every coach knows that. At the FCS level, it is much like Bison06 said, there is much more than just getting the players the fastest route to the NFL, an 18 year old kid comes in as a boy, and if a coach and his staff do their job, he will leave a man with many lessons learned that will help him if his career does continue at the NFL level or in life in general without football, being part of a family long after a player is done playing. But winning is also important at this level...

I agree 100% about Bradley, although I had never had the chance to meet him, everything that I have heard and read makes me believe that he would be an ideal canidate for something like this at NDSU...one can dream I guess!

[CaBisonFan]

If most FSU fans had their way (Myself included), Bowden would have been gone about 5 years ago. Bowden earned the right just as much as Joe Pa did to stick around, 14 years in a ROW finishing ranked in the top 5 is something that will probably never be touched again, but their were many, many behind the scenes things that went on the past few years at FSU that showed it was time to move on!

It is a major achievement, but the lustre came off of the program in the past decade. Do you think that it might have been partially due to the rise of the Gator program & the resulting loss of recruits? Serious question. (and maybe the rise of 3 or 4 other programs in the state like Southern Florida, etc, etc)

There's been serious damage done to the FSU program. I would agree that Bobby should have taken the responsibility upon himself to step down 5-10 years ago. He overstayed his welcome...big-time.

Paterno seems to be hanging in there to a certain extent.

[BisonNolesFan77]

It is a major achievement, but the lustre came off of the program in the past decade. Do you think that it might have been partially due to the rise of the Gator program & the resulting loss of recruits? Serious question. (and maybe the rise of 3 or 4 other programs in the state like Southern Florida, etc, etc)

There's been serious damage done to the FSU program. I would agree that Bobby should have taken the responsibility upon himself to step down 5-10 years ago. He overstayed his welcome...big-time.

Paterno seems to be hanging in there to a certain extent.

Sent you a PM since I'm sure most on here don't want to hear about FSU football...

[ndsubison1]

now days its all about winning

[SDbison]

I think the biggest factor to having a winning team is the team chemistry. You need a bunch of athletes who are smart, dedicated and support each other on and off the field. They have so much confidence in each other that no game or situation in a game is insurmountable. Yes, it helps to have good tradition, facilities, recruiting, fan support and coaches, but how the team comes together to make plays even when someone misses their assignment or is out injured makes the most difference. How this is passed along year to year helps too. Having a great QB leader and performer along with a defensive leader goes hand in hand with team success.
A good example would be SDSU the past couple years. They got confidence by beating NDSU in a year the Bison should have gone undefeated (Some breaks and Bison injuries helped make that happen too). Does anyone really think SDSU beats NDSU with their tradition, facilities, recruiting, fan support and coaches? Don't think so. I believe it was team chemistry that began at the end of the season 3 years ago and it may have run out with the backbreaking loss to Montana this year along with the players that will graduate. SDSU will still be competitive, but they don't have enough of the other factors to stay on a winning track until the next group of team players come together. As for Stig he is definitely no better than Bohl. Some of the blame for giving up such a lead in the 4th quarter against Montana has to be put on him.
Good TEAMS find a way to WIN even if things are not going their way. Coaching can help, but having a great group of players that work together is first and foremost in my opinion.

[BisonNeil]

I'm not sure Paterno and Bowden are good examples here, because they built the programs at Penn State and Florida State. Before those two guys those universities had no tradition, so despite Paterno having some really bad 3-8 type seasons, he was untouchable, and rightfully so. Bowden, on the other hand, despite what he did for the program did not control his destiny in the end, which is unfortunate.

Contrary to those two examples, NDSU had a tradition before Bohl got here.

With that said, Bohl will never be fired. Oh, I know I predicted some time ago that he would be fired after the 2010 season, but I don't believe that anymore. He is the FCS version of untouchable (not quite in the same vein as Jerry Moore at Appy, but close) after two 10-1 seasons during transition. No question in my mind about that.

The reason? Bohl has stepped up and done more work in the recruiting game and that is really going to pay off in 2011 and 2012, and I am sure that is what Taylor is looking at.

If Punky is around in 2011, Bohl's team will kick some fluffy thirteen-stripped Richardson's ground squirrel ass. I guarangoddamntee it!

[Bison06]

I'm not sure Paterno and Bowden are good examples here, because they built the programs at Penn State and Florida State. Before those two guys those universities had no tradition, so despite Paterno having some really bad 3-8 type seasons, he was untouchable, and rightfully so. Bowden, on the other hand, despite what he did for the program did not control his destiny in the end, which is unfortunate.

Contrary to those two examples, NDSU had a tradition before Bohl got here.

With that said, Bohl will never be fired. Oh, I know I predicted some time ago that he would be fired after the 2010 season, but I don't believe that anymore. He is the FCS version of untouchable (not quite in the same vein as Jerry Moore at Appy, but close) after two 10-1 seasons during transition. No question in my mind about that.

The reason? Bohl has stepped up and done more work in the recruiting game and that is really going to pay off in 2011 and 2012, and I am sure that is what Taylor is looking at.

If Punky is around in 2011, Bohl's team will kick some fluffy thirteen-stripped Richardson's ground squirrel ass. I guarangoddamntee it!

I agree, and this was sort of the underlying point of my original post. I think we need to make Bohl untouchable, now that may be met with a lot of criticism, especially after our last 2 seasons. Say what you want about his personal life in the past, but I think he is the type of man that NDSU needs to keep around long term. He has shown the ability to bring in top assistants, we were just a victim of our own success and they moved on. I think this period of NDSU being a stepping stone after 1 maybe 2 years is coming to a close. Maybe that is just wishful thinking, but it seems to be slowing. Let's get some continuity on the staff and build the program we all know NDSU can be.

[Grizzled]

I'm not sure Paterno and Bowden are good examples here, because they built the programs at Penn State and Florida State. Before those two guys those universities had no tradition, so despite Paterno having some really bad 3-8 type seasons, he was untouchable, and rightfully so. Bowden, on the other hand, despite what he did for the program did not control his destiny in the end, which is unfortunate.

Contrary to those two examples, NDSU had a tradition before Bohl got here.

With that said, Bohl will never be fired. Oh, I know I predicted some time ago that he would be fired after the 2010 season, but I don't believe that anymore. He is the FCS version of untouchable (not quite in the same vein as Jerry Moore at Appy, but close) after two 10-1 seasons during transition. No question in my mind about that.

The reason? Bohl has stepped up and done more work in the recruiting game and that is really going to pay off in 2011 and 2012, and I am sure that is what Taylor is looking at.

If Punky is around in 2011, Bohl's team will kick some fluffy thirteen-stripped Richardson's ground squirrel ass. I guarangoddamntee it!

I don't know. I think a lot of people where excited about other recruiting classes three and four years ago. No one can tell with recruiting classes for a couple years. At the FCS level you are not going to get a lot of true or redshirt freshmen who can come in and make immediate impact unless your program just isn't very good. I think the key for Bohl is the off the field issues can't resurface. That was worse for me than the record but if we hover around .500 for the next two years I don't think pulling a Golden Gopher and offering a contract extension is a good idea. I'll wait a couple years until I make any predictions on 2011 and 2012.

[Grizzled]

I agree, and this was sort of the underlying point of my original post. I think we need to make Bohl untouchable, now that may be met with a lot of criticism, especially after our last 2 seasons. Say what you want about his personal life in the past, but I think he is the type of man that NDSU needs to keep around long term. He has shown the ability to bring in top assistants, we were just a victim of our own success and they moved on. I think this period of NDSU being a stepping stone after 1 maybe 2 years is coming to a close. Maybe that is just wishful thinking, but it seems to be slowing. Let's get some continuity on the staff and build the program we all know NDSU can be.

I don't like the idea of a making a coach who has won 0 National championships untouchable. These are things that tend to take care of themselves. Win and its not a problem. Sure that may be asking a lot but coaches also get paid very well for what the do, and with that type of pressure its well deserved. Don't think anyone, in any position should be "untouchable".

[NorthernBison]

I won't quote BisonNeil's post again but I wasn't sure earlier that he would keep his resolution about being more positive. That post tells me he is serious with a Capital S. Wow! I'm a little dizzy after reading the post.

[56BISON73]

I'm not sure Paterno and Bowden are good examples here, because they built the programs at Penn State and Florida State. Before those two guys those universities had no tradition, so despite Paterno having some really bad 3-8 type seasons, he was untouchable, and rightfully so. Bowden, on the other hand, despite what he did for the program did not control his destiny in the end, which is unfortunate.

Contrary to those two examples, NDSU had a tradition before Bohl got here.

With that said, Bohl will never be fired. Oh, I know I predicted some time ago that he would be fired after the 2010 season, but I don't believe that anymore. He is the FCS version of untouchable (not quite in the same vein as Jerry Moore at Appy, but close) after two 10-1 seasons during transition. No question in my mind about that.

The reason? Bohl has stepped up and done more work in the recruiting game and that is really going to pay off in 2011 and 2012, and I am sure that is what Taylor is looking at.

If Punky is around in 2011, Bohl's team will kick some fluffy thirteen-stripped Richardson's ground squirrel ass. I guarangoddamntee it!

Where is the real Bison Neil and what have you done with him????:D

""fluffy thirteen-stripped Richardson's ground squirrel ass""????

Now that is funny!!!!!

[BisonNeil]

Seriously guys, I'm a new man. Believe!

In, retrospect, I think the 2007 recruiting class with Beson, Boyer, Cornick, Eaves, Holloway, Johnson, McNorton, Richard, Veldman, Voightlander, and Forbes (originally signed, not academically eligible, but now BACK!) was a turning point for Bohl and the Bison. Not a blow the doors off type class, but very solid. They will all be seniors in 2011 and all very good starters.

You add some Jr and So from the 08 and 09 class that have already flashed signs of brilliance, and well, we will have what I firmly believe is a stellar football team.

It just took me a while to wrap my head around the 3-8 season, really dive in and examine what was coming along in the pipeline, and I realized I had been too harsh on Bohl.

I still am not convinced 2010 will be as good as some of you predict, but I can see the future and it is bright. I've even purchased a new set of sunglasses to compensate for it.

Happy New Years BV!!

BN

[HerdBot]

Let's be honest though, it is boosters who make the real decisions. Pressure from the people who donate to a program can get a coach fired in a hurry. But, the point still stands then, if this is the case why hasn't Joe Paterno been fired or why hasn't Bobby Bowden been let go until now. It has to be about more than wins and losses IMO. We need a coach who represents what NDSU is about and we need to keep him win, lose or draw. That way assistants who want to be here will come and stay and players will come here to be a part of something more than a football team. Just my opinion I guess.

A head coach who's in it for the long-term won't help retain assistant coaches . We have to accept the fact that our assistant coach jobs are transitional. The only way we keep them are 1)they have roots 2) get paid more 3) aspire to move up

[SDbison]

Seriously guys, I'm a new man. Believe!

In, retrospect, I think the 2007 recruiting class with Beson, Boyer, Cornick, Eaves, Holloway, Johnson, McNorton, Richard, Veldman, Voightlander, and Forbes (originally signed, not academically eligible, but now BACK!) was a turning point for Bohl and the Bison. Not a blow the doors off type class, but very solid. They will all be seniors in 2011 and all very good starters.

You add some Jr and So from the 08 and 09 class that have already flashed signs of brilliance, and well, we will have what I firmly believe is a stellar football team.

It just took me a while to wrap my head around the 3-8 season, really dive in and examine what was coming along in the pipeline, and I realized I had been too harsh on Bohl.

I still am not convinced 2010 will be as good as some of you predict, but I can see the future and it is bright. I've even purchased a new set of sunglasses to compensate for it.

Happy New Years BV!!

BN
Either this ^^^^^^^^ or you are on some hardcore drugs!

Did Bohl send some hit men after you because of all the bad things you were saying about him?

[X-Factor]

Seriously guys, I'm a new man. Believe!

In, retrospect, I think the 2007 recruiting class with Beson, Boyer, Cornick, Eaves, Holloway, Johnson, McNorton, Richard, Veldman, Voightlander, and Forbes (originally signed, not academically eligible, but now BACK!) was a turning point for Bohl and the Bison. Not a blow the doors off type class, but very solid. They will all be seniors in 2011 and all very good starters.

You add some Jr and So from the 08 and 09 class that have already flashed signs of brilliance, and well, we will have what I firmly believe is a stellar football team.

It just took me a while to wrap my head around the 3-8 season, really dive in and examine what was coming along in the pipeline, and I realized I had been too harsh on Bohl.

I still am not convinced 2010 will be as good as some of you predict, but I can see the future and it is bright. I've even purchased a new set of sunglasses to compensate for it.

Happy New Years BV!!

BN


BN, i have to hand it to you...nice work. Your last two posts in this thread are without a doubt the most "glass half full" BN posts I have ever read. Lets all hope that Bohl and Co finally figured out how to handle this recruiting busn.

[BisonNeil]

BN, i have to hand it to you...nice work. Your last two posts in this thread are without a doubt the most "glass half full" BN posts I have ever read. Lets all hope that Bohl and Co finally figured out how to handle this recruiting busn.

Well, I think Wayne Dyer said it best: “If you change the way you look at things, the things you look at will change."

Enjoy the New Year fellow BVers!!