Should NDSU move up to FBS level?

[99Bison]

Reposting this from other thread, since it's FBS focused, which is football...

http://www.bisonville.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18789

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Last week, the Big Ten Conference announced it was officially exploring the possibility of expanding. The conventional wisdom is that they are looking to expand so they'd be able to add a conference championship game in football ala the SEC, Big XII, and ACC.

When major BCS conferences go through this process, there is a trickle down effect that can permeate all the way down to conferences like the WAC or Mountain West. I visited with Gene Taylor late last week to get his thoughts on how such a domino effect could potentially effect schools like NDSU:

http://www.bisonillustrated.com/s.php?s=90

[WYOBISONMAN]

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z88/GreatGurrenBrigade/not_this_shit_again.jpg

[02Bison]

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z88/GreatGurrenBrigade/not_this_shit_again.jpg

I Ditto this! A move to the FBS division would be just that.....A BS decision!

[westriver bison]

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z88/GreatGurrenBrigade/not_this_shit_again.jpg

nooooooooooooooooooooooooo

[stevdock]

How many days until fall practice so this crap can stop??

[AKBison]

I would love Wac attack as much as the next guy but we need to fill up those two empty national championship trophie shelves that we built first...

[North Side]

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z88/GreatGurrenBrigade/not_this_shit_again.jpg

couldn't agree more WY,lets please let this slowly sink to the bottom

[NDSUstudent]

I could really careless about a national title if we can get into the WAC. Being in a stronger conference will help our other sports immensely and as NDB will tell you our peers in the WAC. Plus it will bring in more exposure, WAC schools get on TV, I am not talking Fox College sports but instead ESPN.

The WAC might also have a window opening in a year or two where they could be expanding and would have to add multiple FCS schools. I hope we have a president with the vision and desire to want to make a move like this, that is the major piece we need. No doubt Chapman would have been all for it.

For you volleyball lovers a WAC team, Hawaii went to the final four this year. For you basketball lovers Utah State and Nevada have solid teams annually.

Some more info...

WAC NCAA TOURNAMENT RECORD
Current WAC teams are a combined 35-67 in the NCAA Tournament, and Utah State’s 18 NCAA appearances are the most by any current member of the league. The WAC has sent at least two teams to the NCAA Tournament 19 times in the last 22 years and a WAC team has advanced to at least the second round 10 times in the last 12 years,

Fresno State won the national title in baseball in 2008.

I could go on and on with this. One could argue that a change in conferences has the potential of doing more for our other teams than football.

[lakesbison]

you guys are all wimps, stay small be small.

fcs and summit league are like class a north dakota sports. its not CLASS B, but seriously. we need to be FBS, and BE SOMEBODY!!

Didnt you guys like the ESPN stuff after the U Minn fball win? the CBS, ESPN stuff during that week for the BIG DANCE?

whats wrong with you people that you DONT want that>??

[stevdock]

I could really careless about a national title if we can get into the WAC. Being in a stronger conference will help our other sports immensely and as NDB will tell you our peers in the WAC. Plus it will bring in more exposure, WAC schools get on TV, I am not talking Fox College sports but instead ESPN.

The WAC might also have a window opening in a year or two where they could be expanding and would have to add multiple FCS schools. I hope we have a president with the vision and desire to want to make a move like this, that is the major piece we need. No doubt Chapman would have been all for it.

For you volleyball lovers a WAC team, Hawaii went to the final four this year. For you basketball lovers Utah State and Nevada have solid teams annually.

Some more info...


Fresno State won the national title in baseball in 2008.

I could go on and on with this. One could argue that a change in conferences has the potential of doing more for our other teams than football.

Then in my opinion you really don't understand NDSU football. As I said somewhere else, exposure BARF, media attention, really again?? We go FBS football we become even less relevant than we are now. You know because everyone talks about Idaho, Utah St, etc.

[NDSUstudent]

Then in my opinion you really don't understand NDSU football. As I said somewhere else, exposure BARF, media attention, really again?? We go FBS football we become even less relevant than we are now. You know because everyone talks about Idaho, Utah St, etc.

So it is all about football now? What are we a one sport school like UND?

Did you even look at what the WAC is doing in other sports? Since Boise would likely be gone I won't talk about them but Fresno has a pretty solid football program.

I don't think football would suffer as badly as you think. For example WAC teams have home games against schools like Utah, Missouri, and Oregon. Fresno State hosted Wisconsin last year.

I am not saying go FBS for the sake of going FBS. I want to put NDSU at the level where the school belongs.

[tjbison]

Man every thread is turning into a "should we go FBS" its almost as bad as every thread during the season being a Mertens Bash fest.:(


Lets let it rest and worry about the division we are in:innocent:

[Bison bison]

Then don't read the thread- it's pretty obvious from the title.

Personally, I eat all this conference realignment stuff up. I'm all about the institutional aspects of college athletics.

There are going to be major changes to Division I in the next ten years. And nobody knows what's going to happen. There isn't any better fodder for message board discussions than this!

[BisonBabe]

For the love of NDSU Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!

[Bison bison]

NDSU's program coach's salary wise is on par with peers in the WAC:
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/football/2009-coaches-contracts-database.htm

[Capn_Cat]

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z88/GreatGurrenBrigade/not_this_shit_again.jpg

WYOBISONMAN and Cap'n Cat: The only two intelligent lifeforms on this site.

:nod: :nod: :nod: :nod:

[BlueBisonRock]

WYOBISONMAN and Cap'n Cat: The only two intelligent lifeforms on this site.

:nod: :nod: :nod: :nod:

Captain, you are only half right! :bow:

Though there are some who also would be reluctant to put Wyoming in the 'intellegent' category!

[CaBisonFan]

Then don't read the thread- it's pretty obvious from the title.

Personally, I eat all this conference realignment stuff up. I'm all about the institutional aspects of college athletics, and will send valium if it's that disturbing.

There are going to be major changes to Division I in the next ten years. And nobody knows what's going to happen. There isn't any better fodder for message board discussions than this!

I'm with you. Those who don't want to read about it shouldn't read about it. I give them my blessings.

The WAC would be a 'beauty' for NDSU. They've had at least 2 football national champs pre-BCS that were recognized as #1 by the voters. The conference has a 'name' that gets some respect. I'm not talking about exposure. It's about legitimacy and respect, which would lead to a solid bowl game 'because' of the reputation of the WAC. The MAC gets 'zero' respect in this regard. Travel issues?...Yes Revenue potential?...Huge And it's a full-blown conference affiliation for 'all' of our sports...not sure about wrestling.

Every road trip into the WAC would be like a bowl game trip. The 'name' and the trips would be a boon for recruiting. Some of the regional FBS programs would be in for a battle with recruiting. Fargo, North Dakota State, and the region have the ability to do this!!

And I 'will' use the Boise State model. They came from a 2-year college status, to DII (virtually unknown), to DI-AA (with some success), and then made the jump. They have tapped into California recruiting in a big way. We would have some access there, but more importantly, we would leapfrog over most of the regional programs that recruit in the cities, Illinois, Wisconsin, etc. Also, then we have the ability to grab a kid like Qvale and try to keep him at home.

We wouldn't be able to see some of our 'dear' friends in the rearview mirror...especially when we're driving south on the 29...:D

We would not be an 'Idaho.'

If DI of the future is going to see big changes...then we need to prepare so that we're not stuck in the 1.5 division with basketball, softball, volleyball, etc. We do NOT belong there.

[westnodak93bison]

Wont happen in my life time imho, with all the budget issues around the country, no way ND will fund it.

[BisonBabe]

WYOBISONMAN and Cap'n Cat: The only two intelligent lifeforms on this site.

:nod: :nod: :nod: :nod:

Cap'n I think you missed someone :p

[CaBisonFan]

Wont happen in my life time imho, with all the budget issues around the country, no way ND will fund it.

Which is a big piece of the puzzle regarding Chapman's departure. He got politicked.

Listen...if North Dakota can accept UND's hockey program and the concept of 'where' the Ralph money came from...well...(cough)...North Dakota State has the endowment potential if the bar was set high. Screw the politicians.

Probably not my lifetime either...but most things like this start with an idea, and discussion. Blogs have affected a lot of things in this country...like it or not.

[NorthernBison]

Which is a big piece of the puzzle regarding Chapman's departure. He got politicked.

Listen...if North Dakota can accept UND's hockey program and the concept of 'where' the Ralph money came from...well...(cough)...North Dakota State has the endowment potential if the bar was set high. Screw the politicians.

Probably not my lifetime either...but most things like this start with an idea, and discussion. Blogs have affected a lot of things in this country...like it or not.

Chapman got careless and got hung out to dry by a bunch of idiots on the Development Foundation that were sloppy in the extreme. Somebody always ends up paying for that kind of gross mismanagement. Joe took the bullet. Maybe it should have been somebody else but it wasn't.

I won't make any predictions on the ability of our supporters to fund a move up if the opportunity presented itself. I will say that the current move appears to have stretched us greatly. If there was the unlimited potential that you and others talk about, the BSA renovation and a Fargodome BB arena would be reality now rather than being stalled like a jalopy in a snowstorm.

Maybe that sounds negative and I try to look on the bright side but I don't see money pouring in anytime soon. I think economic recovery will take some time and big money donors will be careful for quite a while even after things turn around.

[ILBISON]

What a bunch of 'mamby pambys'! NDSU can be boise state, TCU, cinncinatti. Personally, NDSU is already on par with MAC'S teams, FBS is what NDSU might need to galvanize the entire community to get behind this effort.

[tony]

Gotta keep all options open because the landscape of DI could change very quickly.

The time zones and travel costs of the WAC would have me a little worried - I wonder what the increase would be? That's a lot of flights to Hawaii.

[umdbulldogs]

What a bunch of 'mamby pambys'! NDSU can be boise state, TCU, cinncinatti. Personally, NDSU is already on par with MAC'S teams, FBS is what NDSU might need to galvanize the entire community to get behind this effort.

ndsu wont ever be boise st, tcu, and for sure not cincy! cincy is in a bcs conference! boise st has a much bigger talent pool to pick from(oregon, wash, and cali not to mention nevada and idaho) tcu is in texas where football is king, and then cincy which isnt even a mid major at anything so your dumb! ndsu has the dakotas and northern minny. and sometimes they snatch up a metro kid that is being offered walk on status from big ten schools. Worst Post I have EVER Read!!!

[56BISON73]

Whats the athletic budget at NDSU??? Here is a magic number----Northwesterns athletic budget in the Big 10 for 2009 was approx 47 million. Wisconsins was double that.
So for all you FBS pundents please tell us where that money will come from. Not to mention new FB and BB facilities. This is just to start. And no---you just cant wave a magic wand and proclaim that this should be easy blah blah blah. :D

[met1990]

So for all you FBS pundents please tell us where that money will come from. Not to mention new FB and BB facilities. This is just to start. And no---you just cant wave a magic wand and proclaim that this should be easy blah blah blah. :D

FBS is a pipe dream in my opinion, but your reasoning does sound awfully similar to what a bunch of naysayers said about NDSU's move to DI.

If Lakes could get $10 from each of his bitches I think this gets funded in no time. ;)

[NDSUstudent]

Whats the athletic budget at NDSU??? Here is a magic number----Northwesterns athletic budget in the Big 10 for 2009 was approx 47 million. Wisconsins was double that.
So for all you FBS pundents please tell us where that money will come from. Not to mention new FB and BB facilities. This is just to start. And no---you just cant wave a magic wand and proclaim that this should be easy blah blah blah. :D

We aren't joining the Big 10 PL, try looking at the WAC or MAC.

Idaho for example is at $15 million, Boise State 20.4 million, Utah State 16.5 million, New Mexico State 25.6 million, La Tech 13.9 milllion, San Jose State 17 million, and Fresno State 26.6 million.

NDSU is at 12.9 million. So while there is a considerable amount of money to raise(3-5 million) it isn't like we need to go to 47 million.

[CaBisonFan]

There was great doubt in the land when the move was made to DI and DI-AA in football. "Where, oh where, will the money come from?"

Look at the trip to the Big Dance and the kind of attendance we had. When the Bison played the Gophers in football...same type of thing.

It was the big stage. Hell...people from Mayville came that my family can't remember seeing at a May-Port, Mayville State, Bison, or Sioux game. They were 'non-athletic' types who just went to support the state of North Dakota. They're the same type of people who would go to a UND hockey game because it's the big-time. But football & basketball are much bigger nationally...so there ya go.

I still say...do some things to adapt the dome for basketball. If, by some miracle, the WAC came calling...getting those kind of games in Fargo would attract HUGE crowds for basketball. If SDSU can get 10,000 people in Frost Arena for a really good NCC game, NDSU can do that with an outstanding team & schedule.

It's 'pundits.'...:cool:

[56BISON73]

We aren't joining the Big 10 PL, try looking at the WAC or MAC.

Idaho for example is at $15 million, Boise State 20.4 million, Utah State 16.5 million, New Mexico State 25.6 million, La Tech 13.9 milllion, San Jose State 17 million, and Fresno State 26.6 million.

NDSU is at 12.9 million. So while there is a considerable amount of money to raise(3-5 million) it isn't like we need to go to 47 million.

I went for the lowest team in the Big Ten because some were talking about it. Just a comparison to show the differences.

[56BISON73]

There was great doubt in the land when the move was made to DI and DI-AA in football. "Where, oh where, will the money come from?"

Look at the trip to the Big Dance and the kind of attendance we had. When the Bison played the Gophers in football...same type of thing.

It was the big stage. Hell...people from Mayville came that my family can't remember seeing at a May-Port, Mayville State, Bison, or Sioux game. They were 'non-athletic' types who just went to support the state of North Dakota. They're the same type of people who would go to a UND hockey game because it's the big-time. But football & basketball are much bigger nationally...so there ya go.

I still say...do some things to adapt the dome for basketball. If, by some miracle, the WAC came calling...getting those kind of games in Fargo would attract HUGE crowds for basketball. If SDSU can get 10,000 people in Frost Arena for a really good NCC game, NDSU can do that with an outstanding team & schedule.

It's 'pundits.'...:cool:

The logistics for the next step up is much much greater than the step from D2 to FCS.
Just because the fans travel well for a big name game doesnt add any creedence for a step up in divisions. Those are some nice stories though:D

Would I like the Bison to move up????? Yes----I want them to play the best competition that is available. BUT I want them to be competitive.
Weve been having FBS games and they have been fun for the fans. We win some. We lose some. Can we be competitive week in and week out at that level.

The move to the next level isnt and wont be as easy as some imagine.

[lakesbison]

THAN YOU CAN STAY BEHIND PL.

I HOPE NOT TO SEE YOU AT THE AWAY WAC/MAC GAMES. You are such a big know it all, and stick in the mud.

NDSU should be MAC/WAC, PERIOD.

[99Bison]

First and foremost NDSU needs to develop the fanbase to be as good as possible. If that fanbase can support competitive FBS so be it, sounds great.

If the fan development doesn't happen or isn't the goal than we may as well get used to the status quo. :(

[ndsubison1]

i think our dream conference should be the mwc

[tjbison]

Then don't read the thread- it's pretty obvious from the title.

Personally, I eat all this conference realignment stuff up. I'm all about the institutional aspects of college athletics.

There are going to be major changes to Division I in the next ten years. And nobody knows what's going to happen. There isn't any better fodder for message board discussions than this!


So NDB you think right now its a lock for FBS??????? yes I read the thread and YES i think its totally stupid to say we should or could be FBS so shoot me!! FBS right now would be a dumb move considering what has taken place:smh:



Regardless these FBS threads are DUMB!!! Period you dont like it my opinion dont read it it clear

[NorthernBison]

I tend to stay away from the "can" or "can't" debates when it comes to this topic. All the "WE CAN DO THIS" guys like Lakes don't know if it can be done. All the naysayers don't really know for sure if it can't.

I'm watching what is and isn't happening. That's more telling than anything else. No, a move to a WAC type conference isn't a $3-5 milion increase in our athletic budget. The reality is that it is more like a doubling of the budget (say to $25 million). And that's an "every year" thing not just a one-time outlay of funds.

Here's what isn't happening: The single, undeniable, 100% true fact of life that NOBODY can argue about is that Bison basketball needs a facility upgrade. Woody and the guys making the NCAA was the perfect opportunity to get the momentum to get it done. To this date, the Fargodome expansion appears to have gone absolutely nowhere and, I don't know where the BSA remodel is, but it is far from done. All of this involves raising the funds and they haven't been there in anywhere the quantity needed. All this for a one-time expense that everybody agrees is necessary. An increase to a WAC budget is similar and the bill comes due every year.

Like I said, I won't say "can't". I just wonder where the rock is that we can turn over to find all this cash. Keep looking, it might be out there.

[kurosawa]

Nine of the 12 MAC members are in Ohio and Michigan, with the other three in Illinois, Indiana, and western New York. Fargo is 670 miles from DeKalb, Illinois, the MAC's westernmost outpost. What could NDSU possibly offer the MAC that any number of other similar schools in closer geographical proximity couldn't offer? Would Youngstown State or even Northern Iowa be better choices for the MAC if it looked to the FCS?

Fargo's geographical isolation is a formidable roadblock for a possible move to any FBS conference in an age when athletic directors are looking at seas of red ink and ways to pare their travel costs.

[56BISON73]

THAN YOU CAN STAY BEHIND PL.

I HOPE NOT TO SEE YOU AT THE AWAY WAC/MAC GAMES. You are such a big know it all, and stick in the mud.

NDSU should be MAC/WAC, PERIOD.

Obviously you are very lacking when it comes to reading comprehension. Not to mention reality AND FACTS.

But just for you-------

Yeah lets do this-----my posse has the 25 million to make this move---

JUST WAITING FOR THE WAC TO GIVE ME A CALL
(i have them on speed dial you know)

COME ON PEOPLE LETS PUMP THIS UP

SELL OUTS EVERY GAME!!!

WE SHOULD BE WAC/MAC NOW!!!!!!!!!

NO UND FOREVER!!!!

YEAH all you small people

Is that better????? Of course I didnt have a court jester costume on but I tried.

[56BISON73]

First and foremost NDSU needs to develop the fanbase to be as good as possible. If that fanbase can support competitive FBS so be it, sounds great.

If the fan development doesn't happen or isn't the goal than we may as well get used to the status quo. :(

No truer words have been spoken.

[BlueBisonRock]

But just for you-------

Yeah lets do this-----

---------------------------------------------------
Is that better????? Of course I didnt have a court jester costume on but I tried.

PL, Now acting as Bisonville Court Jester recommending the xAC move to the King and Castle. Keep raising those funds PL!

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk298/rjehni/jesterdude.jpg

[56BISON73]

PL, Now acting as Bisonville Court Jester recommending the xAC move to the King and Castle. Keep raising those funds PL!

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk298/rjehni/jesterdude.jpg

I could have said that all I was wearing was a yellow jock strap but I know how intimidating Yellow is to some people.:D

[99Bison]

I tend to stay away from the "can" or "can't" debates when it comes to this topic. All the "WE CAN DO THIS" guys like Lakes don't know if it can be done. All the naysayers don't really know for sure if it can't.

I'm watching what is and isn't happening. That's more telling than anything else. No, a move to a WAC type conference isn't a $3-5 milion increase in our athletic budget. The reality is that it is more like a doubling of the budget (say to $25 million). And that's an "every year" thing not just a one-time outlay of funds.

Here's what isn't happening: The single, undeniable, 100% true fact of life that NOBODY can argue about is that Bison basketball needs a facility upgrade. Woody and the guys making the NCAA was the perfect opportunity to get the momentum to get it done. To this date, the Fargodome expansion appears to have gone absolutely nowhere and, I don't know where the BSA remodel is, but it is far from done. All of this involves raising the funds and they haven't been there in anywhere the quantity needed. All this for a one-time expense that everybody agrees is necessary. An increase to a WAC budget is similar and the bill comes due every year.

Like I said, I won't say "can't". I just wonder where the rock is that we can turn over to find all this cash. Keep looking, it might be out there.


This is my exact point about fan support. That's the rock. But you don't just turn it over, you have to build it.

[CaBisonFan]

This is my exact point about fan support. That's the rock. But you don't just turn it over, you have to build it.

Not arguing...but I think that we have seen the other side of the rock three times.

1. 2006 MN game
2. 2007 MN game
3. Big Dance

The rock is the huge fan base that came out for big-time events. Granted...they were all just down the interstate...but I'd bet a late December bowl game in Florida would bring several thousand...maybe between 5 & 10K in the beginning...depending on which bowl and who we were playing. It would easily 'equal' our appearance in the Big Dance in terms of support and interest from the fan base...a base that expanded exponentially at the above events.

People love seeing the state of North Dakota being put on the map with this kind of thing. The potential for large & deep pockets opening would increase considerably.

[99Bison]

Not arguing...but I think that we have seen the other side of the rock three times.

1. 2006 MN game
2. 2007 MN game
3. Big Dance

The rock is the huge fan base that came out for big-time events. Granted...they were all just down the interstate...but I'd bet a late December bowl game in Florida would bring several thousand...maybe between 5 & 10K in the beginning...depending on which bowl and who we were playing. It would easily 'equal' our appearance in the Big Dance in terms of support and interest from the fan base...a base that expanded exponentially at the above events.

People love seeing the state of North Dakota being put on the map with this kind of thing. The potential for large & deep pockets opening would increase considerably.

Agreed, that puts an arguement in the hat saying the potential is there. The questions are:
1. Is there enough potential sustained fan support (your point says maybe yes)?
2. Does NDSU desire to be there (admin and athletics)?
3. Does NDSU (admin and athletics) want to put the effort in to get and then stay there? This means continuously growing, never stopping, because you are either moving forward or getting left behind, there's no such thing as status quo.
4. Doing #3 is a larger financial task than moving to DI originally was and takes better execution to do successfully.

[silkamilkamonico]

Moving up to FBS would be selling out, considering it would legitmately end any oppurtunity NDSU has at ever getting a Championship again in college football.

It's not like we're competing in FCS either, but at least the pipedream stays alive.

[TheBisonator]

If we get a new president like Hanson, or if (God forbid) Hanson becomes permanent, kiss this issue good-bye. Hell, start worrying about going back to D2.

We will understand this issue better once the new guy is settled in for at least 6 months or so.

[TheBisonator]

I was thinking about this lately, so forgive me if my post is long.

Let's make a comparison between two universities: North Dakota State University and the University of Wyoming.

The first university is in DI FCS in the MVFC/Summit while the latter is in the DI FBS Mountain West.

Let's make some comparisons.

Football and its attendance: NDSU gets 18,000+ per game in a good year, 16,000+ per game in a horrible year. NDSU ticket base is about 9,500. Wyoming averages anywhere between 18,000 to 20,000 per game in any given year of the decade of the 2000's. Wyoming season ticket base is smaller, at 7,500. NDSU's stadium seats 19,000, Wyoming's seats 31,000. This is the description of the fan base as it stands currently. NDSU's recruiting is a little easier to do than Wyoming's, due to less competition with nearby similar universities.

Basketball and attendance: NDSU plays in a shitbox of a 6,500 seat arena in front of varying crowds. Let's only count crowds against DI opponents. NDSU will range anywhere from around 1,750 (Centenary) to over 5,000 (SDSU/Oakland). Let's put the median range at around 2,500 to 3,500 per game average for NDSU. NDSU's season ticket base for mens hoops is 1,500. Against DI opponents, Wyoming will maybe average a minimum of 4,000 or so against an unknown low-major. They can reach upwards of close to the capacity of their 10,000-seat arena that's better than the BSA. Wyoming's season ticket base is over 3,000.This is how it stands currently. Recruiting is potentially better for NDSU than Wyoming, due to same reasons as football recruiting.

Athletic Budget: NDSU's 2008-09 athletic revenue was $13,040,000. Wyoming's was $24,671,000. Difference of $11,631,000. NDSU would have to hike the budget by upwards of 85 percent anually from current.

Market: Fargo, ND/Moorhead, MN has a metro area of about 200,000 people. It is 3 1/2 hours straight-shoot from a metro area of 3.2 million people. Laramie, Wyoming has 28,000 people with Cheyenne, WY about an hour away with 56,000 people. Southeastern Wyoming has around 125,000 people total. They are 2 1/2 hours away from the Denver metro area, which has about 2.5 million people. The state of North Dakota (these are fresh numbers that just came in today, BTW) has 646,844 people, having to share most of the state's resources with another university (esentially splitting it, so let's say 323,000 market each). The state of ND has grown by 14,000 people since 2003. Wyoming has 544,270 people, having the state all to theirselves. Both states have a budget surplus (at least Wyoming did not too long ago). North Dakota has more money overall to spend on higher education than Wyoming.

Fanbase, money and market. The preceding were some basic comparisons.

Remember, one university is DI FCS and a member of a DI low-major conference. The other is close to the top of the heap in an FBS conference that's arguably the 7th best conference in the US.

I will now break down the advantages between both schools, or indicate a push, or wash.

Football attendance: NDSU (fanbase is more loyal)

Basketball attendance: WYO (fanbase is more interested)

Football facilities: PUSH (FFD is nicer, War Memorial is larger)

Basketball Facilities: WYO (No contest)

Overall Facilties: PUSH (NDSU has great football stadium, ballpark, and wellness center. Good volleyball facility. Horrible basketball/general athletic faciltiy. Wyoming has an awesome general athletic center, decent football stadium, arena. Comparable volleyball gym with NDSU, no decent student wellness center.)

Athletic Budget: WYO (By a large margin)

Market: NDSU (Laramie is closer to a major city, Laramie/Cheyenne is much smaller than F-M, F-M is further away from Twin Cities area, TC is larger than Denver. Immediate population for NDSU is larger than WYO, which puts NDSU ahead.)

All these pushes, save for market, can be influenced by NDSU. Turn one of those pushes into NDSU's favour and you have a 3-2-1 score IN FAVOUR OF NDSU. Now remember, the two universities we are comparing involve one Summit/MVFC and one Mountain West.

Hypothesis: With some work, with making the score 3-2-1 NDSU's ADVANTAGE, and RIGHT NOW being similar to WYO except for immediate athletic monies, shouldn't it be reasonable to think that NDSU could end up in a conference like the WAC, which is one notch below the conference that Wyoming is in??

I ask you all.

[unbison]

the fargo dome has better concession stands than war memorial and thats it if you ask me..... big open air stadium with mountains as a backdrop...or fargodome... well no contest for me........boosters I am guessing now but wyoming would get the edge there.... they have a law school and a medical school

[99Bison]

the fargo dome has better concession stands than war memorial and thats it if you ask me..... big open air stadium with mountains as a backdrop...or fargodome... well no contest for me........boosters I am guessing now but wyoming would get the edge there.... they have a law school and a medical school

Not too sure about these points...
- If you are talking financially, TM already raises more than the booster club in WY.
- As for mountains, well, they aren't really there in the backdrop in WY... a couple large hills maybe.


However, the local population and businesses visibly support WY much more than in Fargo. The whole town is about the cowboys.

--------------------------

However, the WY comparison is not so good generally speaking, I don't think anyone talking about FBS wants to be like Wyoming... Presumably the goal would be to be something like Boise St, TCU, Gonzaga (BB), etc.

[Tatanka]

War Memorial > FargoDome. Sorry to say it, but there it is.

[TheBisonator]

War Memorial > FargoDome. Sorry to say it, but there it is.

War Memorial = Gravel parking lot and no seat backs.

Sorry, but the FFD is a little better in my book.

[Woden]

I was thinking about this lately, so forgive me if my post is long.

Let's make a comparison between two universities: North Dakota State University and the University of Wyoming.



I was about to compare the two before I read this. I think it comes down to one thing, and we can blame the framers of the ND Constitution for this problem.


ND is not big enough to support 11 public institutions of higher ed, and especially not two bigger schools trying to move up. The money/fan base just isn't there.

WY did it right by making UW the only four year public institution in the state. All other schools are feeder programs into the main institution. Therefore, the little money/fan base available in that state all goes to that institution.

There are many reasons ND should look into going to a system similar, and this is just another one. NDSU/UND should be the two four year programs, with every other school a two-year feeder program.

[fbsbison]

absolutely ndsu is a fbs program/city.
im a fbs connoisseur, and i see ndsu in either wac/mac or mountain west.
Wyoming, Colorado St, those are peer colleges.
mac gives you the chicago market and moves ndsu east, which is already happening with the minnesota heavy students.

[TheBisonator]

absolutely ndsu is a fbs program/city.
im a fbs connoisseur, and i see ndsu in either wac/mac or mountain west.
Wyoming, Colorado St, those are peer colleges.
mac gives you the chicago market and moves ndsu east, which is already happening with the minnesota heavy students.

OK Lakes, stop it with the alter egos...

[fbsbison]

i see enough of him on gopherhole, sorry buddy. but my thoughts dont lie. im a big 10 fan, bigtime football/basketball, not D1AA, and sorry, people all still call it that.

[unbison]

Not too sure about these points...
- If you are talking financially, TM already raises more than the booster club in WY.
- As for mountains, well, they aren't really there in the backdrop in WY... a couple large hills maybe.


However, the local population and businesses visibly support WY much more than in Fargo. The whole town is about the cowboys.

--------------------------

However, the WY comparison is not so good generally speaking, I don't think anyone talking about FBS wants to be like Wyoming... Presumably the goal would be to be something like Boise St, TCU, Gonzaga (BB), etc.

a couple hills equals mountains after looking at the vast expanse of nothing when staring of into the landscape of north dakota.... i mean really you can see jamestown from fargo.... well almost a couple of grain elevators in the way:hide:

[02Bison]

THAN YOU CAN STAY BEHIND PL.

I HOPE NOT TO SEE YOU AT THE AWAY WAC/MAC GAMES. You are such a big know it all, and stick in the mud.

NDSU should be MAC/WAC, PERIOD.


Good grief. It is called not putting a wagon before the horse. It is okay to dream big, but it is more wise to be realistic and deliberative when it comes to something as big as moving up another division --especially considering NDSU still has much to prove in FCS yet. I hope PL is at the away MAC/WAC games. He certainly would be a better representation of NDSU than you....

[lakesbison]

02bison.

thats debatable buddy, you need us young D1 fans, not the old D2 fans, there's soo last decade (or 2). I bring more attention,enthusiasm, and many many more fans to an event/game than all of those aforementioned people combined.

gee you want the same 5000-6000 people everygame, or add 10,000+ different people ?

[unbison]

02bison.

thats debatable buddy, you need us young D1 fans, not the old D2 fans, there's soo last decade (or 2). I bring more attention,enthusiasm, and many many more fans to an event/game than all of those aforementioned people combined.

gee you want the same 5000-6000 people everygame, or add 10,000+ different people ?
You aint no 701 promotions

[56BISON73]

You aint no 701 promotions

He had a sign in his truck that said
DO NOT TOW
FOX SPORTS CHANNEL PROMTIONAL EVENT

May be next time it wont be on a torn piece of cardboard
and written with a crayon.:D

But it is disturbing that he thinks that the future of Bison athletics is in his hands.
AHhhh The wonders of alcohol.:D

[Twentysix]

If we get a new president like Hanson, or if (God forbid) Hanson becomes permanent, kiss this issue good-bye. Hell, start worrying about going back to D2.

We will understand this issue better once the new guy is settled in for at least 6 months or so.

Pretty sure the interm president CANNOT be the president. Thats one of the stipulations.

[It's_pronounced_faRVe]

holy batman really? i thought this thread was a joke.

[unbison]

you guys are all wimps, stay small be small.

fcs and summit league are like class a north dakota sports. its not CLASS B, but seriously. we need to be FBS, and BE SOMEBODY!!

Didnt you guys like the ESPN stuff after the U Minn fball win? the CBS, ESPN stuff during that week for the BIG DANCE?

whats wrong with you people that you DONT want that>??
If NDSU was a true division one football team, it would not be noteworthy that they beat Minnesota. You really need to stop and examine what you are saying. It will not even be as big of deal next time we make the big dance. Really unsure what you think is gonna happen if NDSU moves up in football?
I see lots of 3-8 seasons in FBS
PS your the small one..... you expect everyone to listen to you..... and you pay no mind to what other people say..... wow

[kurosawa]

"I see lots of 3-8 seasons in FBS"

Actually, they'd be 3-9 seasons; FBS teams play 12 games. A nit-picking point, I know, but just wanted to set the record straight.

[Tatanka]

"I see lots of 3-8 seasons in FBS"

Actually, they'd be 3-9 seasons; FBS teams play 12 games. A nit-picking point, I know, but just wanted to set the record straight.

This, unfortunately.

[56BISON73]

If NDSU was a true division one football team, it would not be noteworthy that they beat Minnesota. You really need to stop and examine what you are saying. It will not even be as big of deal next time we make the big dance. Really unsure what you think is gonna happen if NDSU moves up in football?
I see lots of 3-8 seasons in FBS
PS your the small one..... you expect everyone to listen to you..... and you pay no mind to what other people say..... wow

One of your best!!!!!! Whats that old saying about "act like youve been there before"