Big Ten????

[#1BISONFAN ASHLEY]

The big ten is looking for 2 more teams to expand the conference...I say we go for it haha...we already beat minnesota and wisconsin!!!!

[DjKyRo]

The big ten is looking for 2 more teams to expand the conference...I say we go for it haha...we already beat minnesota and wisconsin!!!!

They're actually looking for 1 more school...they're already at 11 (the name is deceiving.).

[tjbison]

Yeah ok!! I was wondering how long till a "we should join the B10" thread came along


Hope your being sarcastic

[stevdock]

If we would make it into the Big 10 then I'd be ok with going FBS, if not there is NO REASON to move up.

[umdbulldogs]

If we would make it into the Big 10 then I'd be ok with going FBS, if not there is NO REASON to move up.

ndsu academics arent good enough for the big ten school

[Bison bison]

thanks for your insight, umdbulldogs.

[bleedbison]

ndsu academics arent good enough for the big ten school

maybe not but i have been reading your posts and came to the conclusion your a troll

[TheBisonator]

You need this at the MINIMUM to be a Big 10 candidate:

1) 50,000 seat football stadium (we got 19,000)
2) At least a 12,000 seat basketball arena (we got 6,500)
3) at least a $45 million athletic budget (we got $13M)
4) For a public school, 25,000 enrollment. (we got 14,000)

If you research Iowa State and see how their setup is like, you'll see that that's the minimum.

I think the dream to go Mountain West could be achieved with a lot of money and vision, but Big 10?? Um, no.

[devin45k]

You need this at the MINIMUM to be a Big 10 candidate:

1) 50,000 seat football stadium (we got 19,000)
2) At least a 12,000 seat basketball arena (we got 6,500)
3) at least a $45 million athletic budget (we got $13M)
4) For a public school, 25,000 enrollment. (we got 14,000)

If you research Iowa State and see how their setup is like, you'll see that that's the minimum.

I think the dream to go Mountain West could be achieved with a lot of money and vision, but Big 10?? Um, no.

Iowa State isnt Big Ten

[TheBisonator]

Iowa State isnt Big Ten

I know, I'm saying that Iowa State, if they wanted to be a candidate, would be the weakest link due to their minimum requirements. And Iowa State is actually being floated around as a possible 12th member, but that idea isn't being recieved very well.

[td577]

I have to think the B10 will make another push for Notre Dame. It is kind of obligatory for the B10 to offer ND a spot every 10 years or so.

[aces1180]

My prediction is Rutgers.

They are a decent football program, ranked extremely high academically and are located in the biggest media market in the country (NY). The BTN would love to have a team in the NY-NJ area for ad revenue alone.

Plus, they have enrollment of 50,000 + and could compete in all sports.

[bisonaudit]

I have to think the B10 will make another push for Notre Dame. It is kind of obligatory for the B10 to offer ND a spot every 10 years or so.


And equally perfunctory for Notre Dame to decline.

[stevdock]

Doesn't make much sense for ND to go into the Big Ten at least not football wise. They make too much money from their TV contract to be lumped into the Big 10 TV contract. The name that could happen would be Rutgers. They meet academic requirements and would get the Big 10 into the New York market which would be huge for the conference.

[Kermit]

ndsu academics arent good enough for the big ten school

Says the guy from Daloot who doesn't use proper grammar, capitalization, or punctuation. I am impressed that you used the word "academics" in a sentence (sort of).

[ndsubison1]

notre dame wont go, theyre already big east for everything else

[NDSUstudent]

As long as Norte Dame has their own TV contract they won't go. My guess is Syracuse, that would be bring NY into their TV market and add a major basketball power.

[Mr_Meanor]

I know, I'm saying that Iowa State, if they wanted to be a candidate, would be the weakest link due to their minimum requirements. And Iowa State is actually being floated around as a possible 12th member, but that idea isn't being recieved very well.

I don't see why ISU would want to make that move. They are in the Big 12 which is equal if not a better conference than the big 10. The only reason I could think of is they wouldn't have to travel as far. In my opinion, ISU would be stupid to make that move.

[lcbison]

Rutgers, Rutgers, Rutgers. Would give the Big 10 a chance to own the nation's largest TV market.

Pittsburgh-brings nothing to the table, Penn State already owns that market

Missouri--Not exaclty Big Ten Coutny

Notre Dame--Not giving up their TV Contract and BCS Special Treatment

Nebraska--Just not happening either


Disclaimer---I would like to thank Colin Cowherd for all the information i just posted.

[Mr_Meanor]

I think Syracuse is the front runner followed by Rutgers in a close second.

[aces1180]

Rutgers, Rutgers, Rutgers. Would give the Big 10 a chance to own the nation's largest TV market.

Pittsburgh-brings nothing to the table, Penn State already owns that market

Missouri--Not exaclty Big Ten Coutny

Notre Dame--Not giving up their TV Contract and BCS Special Treatment

Nebraska--Just not happening either


Disclaimer---I would like to thank Colin Cowherd for all the information i just posted.


I "HERD" that this afternoon too...

[devin45k]

I would love for Notre Dame to be in the Big Ten but I dont think it would ever happen.

[DjKyRo]

I think Syracuse is the front runner followed by Rutgers in a close second.

Seconded. 'Cuse has everything Rutgers has but with better basketball.

[ndsubison1]

Cincinnati makes a lot of sense too... football program is on top and will probably get better in the Big Ten. Big Ten > Big East in football. Basketball program is starting to rise again and would improve the Big Ten's quality

[lcbison]

Seconded. 'Cuse has everything Rutgers has but with better basketball.

Except they are located way up in New York. Rutgers is basically in NYC. The Big Ten wants the money that Rutgers could potentially bring.

This move is all about Money.

[ndsubison1]

Except they are located way up in New York. Rutgers is basically in NYC. The Big Ten wants the money that Rutgers could potentially bring.

This move is all about Money.

Syracuse would bring in the same if not more revenue than Rutgers

[heckler]

just one more team minnesota can lose to in football and\or basketball

[lcbison]

Syracuse would bring in the same if not more revenue than Rutgers

Maybe, thats your opinion. However Rutgers brings the NYC TV Market, 45,000 undergrads, and is a public school. They would fit perfectly in the Big Ten.

[tjbison]

I think Syracuse is the front runner followed by Rutgers in a close second.

is it because of the TV market, the Enrollment, or the Academics???;)







Sorry those have just been stated in like 4 posts:D

[WRSDBison]

Rutgers, Rutgers, Rutgers. Would give the Big 10 a chance to own the nation's largest TV market.

Pittsburgh-brings nothing to the table, Penn State already owns that market

Missouri--Not exaclty Big Ten Coutny

Notre Dame--Not giving up their TV Contract and BCS Special Treatment

Nebraska--Just not happening either


Disclaimer---I would like to thank Colin Cowherd for all the information i just posted.

Why would you listen to that tool? Your IQ will go up dramatically after 1 week of not listening to him. The only thing remotely good about him is the "2 for the road" right before Van Pelt comes on.

[ndsubison1]

Maybe, thats your opinion. However Rutgers brings the NYC TV Market, 45,000 undergrads, and is a public school. They would fit perfectly in the Big Ten.

Syracuse is just as big in NYC

[tjbison]

Syracuse is just as big in NYC

but they are not IN NYC they are in Syracuse!!!;) :p :D

[ndsubison1]

but they are not IN NYC they are in Syracuse!!!;) :p :D

they are???

[4mcruenomore]

Too bad we are too small, broke, in debt, have a House that keeps making the news, and our teams suck, b/c whenever anybody talks about moving "up" or adding a new sport, they talk about conference affiliation. If we only had 1 large University in this state like other smaller pop. states, we'd already be in it. Maybe next time.

[TheBisonator]

Too bad we are too small, broke, in debt, have a House that keeps making the news, and our teams suck, b/c whenever anybody talks about moving "up" or adding a new sport, they talk about conference affiliation. If we only had 1 large University in this state like other smaller pop. states, we'd already be in it. Maybe next time.

Looks like someone needs some happy pills.

http://419.bittenus.com/NenitaVillaran4/happy-pills.jpg

[CaBisonFan]

but they are not IN NYC they are in Syracuse!!!;) :p :D

Most Manhattan Island folks don't even know that there's more country out there. Syracuse is like another planet to them. :D

It's a lot like native Southern Californians. A lot of them couldn't locate ND or MN on a map. A lot of my students (4th & 5th grade) couldn't tell you if California's a country, a state, or a city.

[CaBisonFan]

Too bad we are too small, broke, in debt, have a House that keeps making the news, and our teams suck, b/c whenever anybody talks about moving "up" or adding a new sport, they talk about conference affiliation. If we only had 1 large University in this state like other smaller pop. states, we'd already be in it. Maybe next time.

Hey 4m...North Dakota's in great shape compared to most of the country as far as the state finances. I've heard that employment is getting worse up there though.

But I think that NDSU can function as a full-blown DI athletic university anyway. Maybe the timing for finances isn't the greatest right now...but I think that there's plenty of money to back an FBS program like Boise in Fargo. It's a state of mind...not a insurmountable hurdle.

[CaBisonFan]

Says the guy from Daloot who doesn't use proper grammar, capitalization, or punctuation. I am impressed that you used the word "academics" in a sentence (sort of).

I put umd on my ignore list a while back. Life has been better.

[MplsLaker]

just one more team minnesota can lose to in football and\or basketball

yawn! the inferiority complex in north dakota that is constantly expressed towards all things minnesota never ceases to amaze me. pretty pathetic actually.

btw - take a look in the mirror bud. you root for ndsu. not exactly the shining star of the north 99% of the country would say.

[MplsLaker]

Most Manhattan Island folks don't even know that there's more country out there. Syracuse is like another planet to them. :D

It's a lot like native Southern Californians. A lot of them couldn't locate ND or MN on a map. A lot of my students (4th & 5th grade) couldn't tell you if California's a country, a state, or a city.

as usual you are wrong, wrong, wrong. in case you missed it manhattan is one of only 5 bouroughs (manhattan, bronx, brooklyn, queens, staten island) in new york city. the majority of people in nyc metro live outside of manhattan in those other bouroughs, in northern new jersey and out on long island. they are just as big of college sports buffs as the rest of the country. unlike you i actually know what i am talking about in reference to nyc. i have close family who is from the nyc region.

you are also wrong in your second "assumption". i am positive that 98% of southern californians could locate MN on a map. unlike ND it is a state with a major city that is actually known around the u.s. and the world. ND? you are right. not so sure about that one. they will always get ND and SD mixed up as they both just look like a couple of squares.

anyways, why do you always insist on mentioning or including MN in just about everything you post?! even when it has nothing to do with MN?! it is just weird dude. get a grip on your minnesota infatuation!

[duluthbison]

yawn! the inferiority complex in north dakota that is constantly expressed towards all things minnesota never ceases to amaze me. pretty pathetic actually.

btw - take a look in the mirror bud. you root for ndsu. not exactly the shining star of the north 99% of the country would say.

By your reasoning that inferiority complex must stretch back to Minnesota then because I am a native. The only team that I am a fan of from Minnesota is UMD. Why don't you come back when the Gophers actually do something other than suck.

[MplsLaker]

By your reasoning that inferiority complex must stretch back to Minnesota then because I am a native. The only team that I am a fan of from Minnesota is UMD. Why don't you come back when the Gophers actually do something other than suck.

huh?! your first sentence makes absolutely no sense cheech.

second, i don't care what team in mn you are a fan of. that is irrelevant and not the point. but, just to endulge you. you say it is UMD that you are a fan of huh? hmmm.....let me guess......you are from somewhere in northern minnesota, which is no more than 10-15% of the entire population of the state of mn. doesn't really mean much.

to your final stupid and still irrelevant point: yeah a big ten program with 6 national titles in football, 18 big ten titles in football, 5 national titles in hockey, 3 national titles in baseball, multiple big ten titles in basketball, national titles in men's golf, national titles in wrestling, final four finishes in women's volleyball and basketball, national titles in women's hockey sure does "suck" as you say. please! get a clue buddy boy! :bow:

[tjbison]

huh?! your first sentence makes absolutely no sense cheech.

second, i don't care what team in mn you are a fan of. that is irrelevant and not the point. but, just to endulge you. you say it is UMD that you are a fan of huh? hmmm.....let me guess......you are from somewhere in northern minnesota, which is no more than 10-15% of the entire population of the state of mn. doesn't really mean much.

to your final stupid and still irrelevant point: yeah a big ten program with 6 national titles in football, 18 big ten titles in football, 5 national titles in hockey, 3 national titles in baseball, multiple big ten titles in basketball, national titles in men's golf, national titles in wrestling, final four finishes in women's volleyball and basketball, national titles in women's hockey sure does "suck" as you say. please! get a clue buddy boy! :bow:

these don't count because you havent won shit in what 20 years or more

[BisoninNWMN]

Last national title in the 40s or 50s.....LMAO

86 was the last time the FB team was good....with Ricky Foggy (spell) at QB.

[NorthernBison]

Maybe, thats your opinion. However Rutgers brings the NYC TV Market, 45,000 undergrads, and is a public school. They would fit perfectly in the Big Ten.

Rutgers is also a Land Grant and that fits well in the Big 10.

Some of the talking heads have said that Ohio State would oppose Cincinnati and Penn State wants no part of Pitt in the same conference with them.

The last time I heard the discussion between people who "might be in the know" the three schools thrown around the were Missouri, Rutgers and Syracuse.

[#1BISONFAN ASHLEY]

Alrite i never knew this

[BlueBisonRock]

i am positive that 98% of southern californians could locate MN on a map. unlike ND it is a state with a major city that is actually known around the u.s. and the world.

I don't see how they can miss. MN is the state that looks like a beer pitcher. Other than that, it is also a part of that huge grey area known as the flyover zone.

*And this is coming from an individual who has lived in MN for 20 plus and appreciates the state of MN! Just can not accept BS from mpls boys with east coast connections.

[td577]

Having lived in upstate NY for 5 years near Syracuse, they would be a cool addition to the Big Ten. Syracuse U is a private school and would join Northwestern as the only two private schools in the B10. With Rutgers being The university of NJ and a land-grant school, I would think they would be a more attractive fit.

[heckler]

I don't see how they can miss. MN is the state that looks like a beer pitcher. Other than that, it is also a part of that huge grey area known as the flyover zone.

*And this is coming from an individual who has lived in MN for 20 plus and appreciates the state of MN! Just can not accept BS from mpls boys with east coast connections.

Must people don't even know where Lake Superior is.

[A1pigskin]

Not for it.

[MplsLaker]

Last national title in the 40s or 50s.....LMAO

86 was the last time the FB team was good....with Ricky Foggy (spell) at QB.

1960. at least know your facts if you are going to be a dense smart-a$$

[MplsLaker]

these don't count because you havent won shit in what 20 years or more

oh yeah, i forgot about that. where in the NCAA rule book does it state that again? page 6? or was it page 12? and tell that assinine logic to every other team in the world of division one college football who has had time between national titles. shoot, michigan went from 1948 until 1997 (50 years) before they won another national title. man, you are a clueless dolt.

[MplsLaker]

I don't see how they can miss. MN is the state that looks like a beer pitcher. Other than that, it is also a part of that huge grey area known as the flyover zone.

*And this is coming from an individual who has lived in MN for 20 plus and appreciates the state of MN! Just can not accept BS from mpls boys with east coast connections.

well, i can't accept b.s. from farm boys with no east coast connections! ;)

btw - i am not originally from minneapolis. from milwaukee.

[bisonbills]

well, i can't accept b.s. from farm boys with no east coast connections! ;)

btw - i am not originally from minneapolis. from milwaukee.

Hey jack ass.... No one cares where you're from or what you think. You, on the other hand, apparently care a great deal about what we think. You take the time to come to board about NORTH DAKOTA State, sign up to post and try to defend your pathetic goofers. If you didn't give a shit about North Dakota, why bother? Talk about an inferiority compex.....

[BisoninNWMN]

1960. at least know your facts if you are going to be a dense smart-a$$

Who frickin cares, pal.

Gophers FB sucks, plain-and-simple.

[bison_05]

1960. at least know your facts if you are going to be a dense smart-a$$

yep, all those national titles are really bringing in those 5 star athletes. Seantrel Henderson couldn't even tell you the last title, and i bet he could care less. Face it gophers football is irrelevant in the country.

[kurosawa]

Boys, boys, boys...settle down. What's the point? Does this sort of urinating match solve anything? Do you feel better about yourselves if you "win" a contest of insults and put-downs like this? Are our egos so fragile that we must derive self-respect from the teams we root for?

Let's be friends and stick to the facts in this discussion, shall we?

--At their respective levels, North Dakota State has a far better track record in football over the last four decades than Minnesota. No questions about it--you can look it up.

--The crucial point in the above statement is "respective levels." NDSU could win three or four FCS championships and still not garner the national attention Minnesota would by finishing in the middle of the Big Ten pack and winning the Champs Sports or Alamo Bowl. That's no criticism or put-down of NDSU or a puffing up of Minnesota--just a statement of the way things are and always will be in college football.

--It's conceivable that NDSU might one day, years in the future, gain entrance into one of the mid-tier western-states FBS conferences (the Mountain West or WAC, perhaps), although a lot would have to happen (mostly in the way of substantial facilities and financial upgrades) even to accomplish that. But no matter how dominant NDSU might become on the field--even if, as is highly unlikely, it excelled in the Mountain West (more likely it would languish in the middle of the pack or lower)--there is NO WAY the school EVER would gain admittance to a BCS conference, for two very simple reasons: television market and academics.

TELEVISION: It's the name of the game in sports today--no great secret or revelation in that. And North Dakota, as one of America's least populous states, simply couldn't supply the demographic to satisfy the networks and consequently deliver the bucks to conference coffers.

ACADEMICS: Every school in the Big Ten, and I believe the Big XII as well, is a member of the Association of American Universities (AAU), the esteemed consortium of the top 65 or 70 research universities in the country. AAU membership will be a major determinant of which school the Big 10 ultimately admits as its 12th member. I'm not pointing this out to puncture any pretensions or delusions some of you might have had about Big 10 or Big XII membership; I'm pointing it out simply to underscore the often-overlooked importance that academic stature plays in conference membership. It's why schools like Cincinnati and Louisville would never be seriously considered for Big 10 membership, no matter how good they are on the field or court. For what it is, NDSU is a good school, but "what it is" is a fairly average regional institution lacking any sort of high-powered research program.

So be content with your lot, Bison fans. You root for a school that is off the map and the radar of big-time college athletics. Excel at your level; take pride in winning championships that will be noticed mostly in places like Cedar Falls, Iowa, and Youngstown, Ohio, with a smattering of national attention in the FCS world. To want more, or even to pretend that a whole lot more is possible, is to invite bitterness, frustration, and the temptation to take senseless envy-motivated potshots at Minnesota.

[Tatanka]

well, i can't accept b.s. from farm boys with no east coast connections! ;)

btw - i am not originally from minneapolis. from milwaukee.

Why is this dude still posting? I'd rather read Lakes.

[Bison bison]

ACADEMICS: Every school in the Big Ten, and I believe the Big XII as well, is a member of the Association of American Universities (AAU), the esteemed consortium of the top 65 or 70 research universities in the country. AAU membership will be a major determinant of which school the Big 10 ultimately admits as its 12th member. I'm not pointing this out to puncture any pretensions or delusions some of you might have had about Big 10 or Big XII membership; I'm pointing it out simply to underscore the often-overlooked importance that academic stature plays in conference membership. It's why schools like Cincinnati and Louisville would never be seriously considered for Big 10 membership, no matter how good they are on the field or court. For what it is, NDSU is a good school, but "what it is" is a fairly average regional institution lacking any sort of high-powered research program.



Seriously? Iowa State is in the AAU and they have as much chance as Cincinnati does of getting in the Big Ten. What about the University of Buffalo, there in the AAU - you think they're gonna get picked over Louisville?

I don't disagree that the Big Ten is looking for peers and that members of the AAU are peers, but it isn't the be all end all.

You could state the same ridiculous requirement using Carnegie Classifications. And you know what? It wouldn't mean squat.

[Notorious]

Boys, boys, boys...settle down. What's the point? Does this sort of urinating match solve anything? Do you feel better about yourselves if you "win" a contest of insults and put-downs like this? Are our egos so fragile that we must derive self-respect from the teams we root for?

Let's be friends and stick to the facts in this discussion, shall we?

--At their respective levels, North Dakota State has a far better track record in football over the last four decades than Minnesota. No questions about it--you can look it up.

--The crucial point in the above statement is "respective levels." NDSU could win three or four FCS championships and still not garner the national attention Minnesota would by finishing in the middle of the Big Ten pack and winning the Champs Sports or Alamo Bowl. That's no criticism or put-down of NDSU or a puffing up of Minnesota--just a statement of the way things are and always will be in college football.

--It's conceivable that NDSU might one day, years in the future, gain entrance into one of the mid-tier western-states FBS conferences (the Mountain West or WAC, perhaps), although a lot would have to happen (mostly in the way of substantial facilities and financial upgrades) even to accomplish that. But no matter how dominant NDSU might become on the field--even if, as is highly unlikely, it excelled in the Mountain West (more likely it would languish in the middle of the pack or lower)--there is NO WAY the school EVER would gain admittance to a BCS conference, for two very simple reasons: television market and academics.

TELEVISION: It's the name of the game in sports today--no great secret or revelation in that. And North Dakota, as one of America's least populous states, simply couldn't supply the demographic to satisfy the networks and consequently deliver the bucks to conference coffers.

ACADEMICS: Every school in the Big Ten, and I believe the Big XII as well, is a member of the Association of American Universities (AAU), the esteemed consortium of the top 65 or 70 research universities in the country. AAU membership will be a major determinant of which school the Big 10 ultimately admits as its 12th member. I'm not pointing this out to puncture any pretensions or delusions some of you might have had about Big 10 or Big XII membership; I'm pointing it out simply to underscore the often-overlooked importance that academic stature plays in conference membership. It's why schools like Cincinnati and Louisville would never be seriously considered for Big 10 membership, no matter how good they are on the field or court. For what it is, NDSU is a good school, but "what it is" is a fairly average regional institution lacking any sort of high-powered research program.

So be content with your lot, Bison fans. You root for a school that is off the map and the radar of big-time college athletics. Excel at your level; take pride in winning championships that will be noticed mostly in places like Cedar Falls, Iowa, and Youngstown, Ohio, with a smattering of national attention in the FCS world. To want more, or even to pretend that a whole lot more is possible, is to invite bitterness, frustration, and the temptation to take senseless envy-motivated potshots at Minnesota.

Intelligent, thoughtful comments are not allowed on Bisonville. I sense you are using "reason"....also not allowed!

[kurosawa]

NDB2, you are correct in stating that AAU membership is not the sole determining factor in whether a school would gain entrance into a conference like the Big 10. As I've pointed out, television is another. Buffalo and Iowa State wouldn't add anything appreciable to the conference demographic--the former because of its remote location and the latter because the Iowa Hawkeyes already own Iowa. Same with Cincinnati--Ohio State already blankets and dominates Ohio. (I'm guessing, by the way, that Rutgers will be its 12th member by virtue of its potential for delivering the New York metropolitan market.) I mentioned the AAU requirement simply to put NDSU in its proper context vis a vis the BCS.

Look, the Big Ten Network has placed the Big Ten in a tremendously advantageous position financially. Its expansion decision likely will rest on which school can deliver a huge new television market that the conference could leverage to increase the network's coverage and therefore income. Missouri would be a terrific addition because it would add the St. Louis market (and perhaps Kansas City as well, although there's a lot more entrenched Big XII fandom there than in the St. Louis area).

Do you see how far away NDSU is from playing this game--how much of an outsider it really is?

[umdbulldogs]

yep, all those national titles are really bringing in those 5 star athletes. Seantrel Henderson couldn't even tell you the last title, and i bet he could care less. Face it gophers football is irrelevant in the country.

yes the gophers have been a very average program over the last 40 years. no, I don't think many gophers know or care about the dominance at the U during the 30's, 40's, 50's, and early 60's. but ndsu has championships in the 90's and I'm willing to bet 95% of the current bizon can't name the last ndsu title, or care about it! and for how "terrible" minnesota's program is, ndsu fans sure talk about that win a lot! I guess if minnesota squeaked out a win against a "terrible" team they would expect it and never talk about it again, but that's how big time football works!

[heckler]

yes the gophers have been a very average program over the last 40 years. no, I don't think many gophers know or care about the dominance at the U during the 30's, 40's, 50's, and early 60's. but ndsu has championships in the 90's and I'm willing to bet 95% of the current bizon can't name the last ndsu title, or care about it! and for how "terrible" minnesota's program is, ndsu fans sure talk about that win a lot! I guess if minnesota squeaked out a win against a "terrible" team they would expect it and never talk about it again, but that's how big time football works!

Brewster not talking... that's new.

[Bison bison]

NDB2, you are correct in stating that AAU membership is not the sole determining factor in whether a school would gain entrance into a conference like the Big 10. As I've pointed out, television is another. Buffalo and Iowa State wouldn't add anything appreciable to the conference demographic--the former because of its remote location and the latter because the Iowa Hawkeyes already own Iowa. Same with Cincinnati--Ohio State already blankets and dominates Ohio. (I'm guessing, by the way, that Rutgers will be its 12th member by virtue of its potential for delivering the New York metropolitan market.) I mentioned the AAU requirement simply to put NDSU in its proper context vis a vis the BCS.

Look, the Big Ten Network has placed the Big Ten in a tremendously advantageous position financially. Its expansion decision likely will rest on which school can deliver a huge new television market that the conference could leverage to increase the network's coverage and therefore income. Missouri would be a terrific addition because it would add the St. Louis market (and perhaps Kansas City as well, although there's a lot more entrenched Big XII fandom there than in the St. Louis area).

Do you see how far away NDSU is from playing this game--how much of an outsider it really is?

Then what about Stony Brook? They are in the AAU. They are in the NYC area. They don't have a prayer because they have no athletic tradition.


NDSU is not an outsider. It is a non-entity. Has nothing to do with academic quality. If NDSU was located in a metro area with three million people we'd be in!

[kurosawa]

If you think academics have nothing to do with it, then you are flat out wrong. Trust me, I know of what I write.

[Bison bison]

That's not at all what I'm saying.

It's certainly part of the criteria, but to imply that AAU membership is an 'litmus' test, or as you put a 'major determinant', is wrong.

Notre Dame is not a member of the AAU.


Are you so sure of what you write now?

Also, there are a load of Big XII schools that aren't in the AAU: Baylor, Texas Tech, Oklahoma State, K-State, and Oklahoma.

[Notorious]

"litmus" test....sorry, feel like being a dick today....

[Bison bison]

"litmus" test....sorry, feel like being a dick today....

thanks!


........................

[Notorious]

Sorry.....didn't want it to detract from the content of your post, which was worthwhile.

[kurosawa]

Yes, actually, I am sure of what I write. Your red herring about Notre Dame's AAU membership status does nothing to negate my original points: (a) that academics and television market, at least for the Big Ten, are the primary qualifications for would-be expansion candidates, and (b) that NDSU is seriously deficient on both counts.

[Bison bison]

AAU membership will be a major determinant of which school the Big 10 ultimately admits as its 12th member.

Who wrote this?

[kurosawa]

The following article was published this past week in The Bleacher Report, although this is not my original source for this information. An interesting article throughout, but take special note of the seventh paragraph.

NDB2, your Bison loyalty is charming in its own sweet way, but you are out of your league.



Texas Is the Perfect (Darkhorse) Candidate for Big Ten Expansion
by Chris Burge


Recently, as a result of comments by Wisconsin A.D. Barry Alvarez, rumors and discussion about the Big Ten adding a 12th team have abounded. Most of these rumors involve a certain school from South Bend; the rest generally involve the conference looking East (at Rutgers, Syracuse, or Pitt) or west (at Mizzou, Nebraska, or Iowa State).

However, the best candidate for expansion may not have received any press at all yet, due largely to their isolation from the rest of the conference: the Texas Longhorns.

While this may be a surprising suggestion to many, Texas is, even with the geographic barrier, the strongest possible candidate for the conference, even more so than the Fighting Irish. Texas has every factor the conference is looking for: strong teams in all sports (both men's and women's), strong academics, and perhaps the most important factor, huge drawing power which will benefit both Texas and the conference financially.

Texas is generally regarded to be one of the best sports programs in the nation. The school currently is ranked in the top five in football, men's basketball, women's volleyball, and men's and women's swimming and they are expected to rank highly in men's tennis, men's and women's track, and baseball as well. The Longhorns football team is undefeated and playing for a national title, certainly a desirable position for any program.

They've also managed to build up some repertoire with Ohio State over the past five years and have a series scheduled against Minnesota in the future. The Longhorns also benefit from the Big Ten's better bowl tie-ins, including births in the Rose Bowl, the Capital One Bowl, and the Alamo Bowl close to home if the Horns happen to have an off-year.

Academically, Texas fits better than any school mentioned yet for expansion, including Notre Dame. Texas' US News ranking is 47, which is equal with Penn State and higher than six current members, but UT ranks in the top 25 in just about every individual subject area measured.

They are also, unlike Notre Dame, a member of AAU, a current requirement for Big Ten membership (and one far more likely to stand than any geographic rules), and are an RU/VH university in the Carnegie classifications, just like every current member of the Big Ten, signifying very high research activity. As a large, public, flagship research university with a national reputation, Texas is exactly the sort of school the Big Ten wants to associate with.

Texas' biggest argument, however, is economical. The Longhorns, very simply, are the biggest brand name in sports right now, having surpassed the Big Ten's own Ohio State, according to a recent article by John Maher in theAustin American-Statesman.

The Longhorns are one of the few athletic departments in the country who not only do not lose money, but in fact give money to the school's academic departments.

Tickets to a game against the Longhorns in Ann Arbor or Columbus, and even in Bloomington or Iowa City, would be snapped up in a heartbeat and the same thing would hold true for teams visiting Austin. The travel costs would increase, but the increased revenues would more than outweigh the raise.

Texas has a strong national fanbase and would be able to sell 4,000 tickets for any conference away game and, though it might be more difficult, would likely be able to sell 19,000 tickets for a championship game in Detroit or Indianapolis. The biggest argument, however, is for television revenue.

The Longhorns have been looking at the posibility of creating a national cable network to gain more exposure and revenue outside their home base of Texas, but with the Big Ten Network, the Longhorns have a perfect match: a place to showcase their non-revenue sports and the occasional football mismatch, events currently relegated to local television stations in Texas.

Texas also brings three of the largest media markets in the country—Dallas-Fort Worth, Houston, and San Antonio. The Longhorns dominate these markets in college football and the Big Ten could really benefit from the addition of three strong media markets.

There are of course, two main arguments against looking at the Horns: one is, of course, geography. The Horns' farthest opponent in the Big 12 is closer than the closest Big Ten team and current Big Ten rules require teams to come from states that are home to or else border current members. However, the extra money the Longhorns bring, plus the exciting rivalries likely to develop, will more than outweigh this argument.

The other is, of course, the fact that the Longhorns are already in a conference and quite comfortable in it. While this is true, Texas has no lasting love for the Big 12. The conference was a shotgun marriage and while Texas has certainly made the best of it, they've not developed any significant rivalries they didn't already possess, except perhaps Kansas in basketball. Texas could still play Oklahoma and Texas A&M annually in non-conference and have room for two buyout games.

One other key factor in adding Texas, rather than most other suggested school, is that it gives the conference a clear geographic divisional breakdown, with Texas joining Iowa, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Illinois, and Northwestern in the West Division and Ohio State, Penn State, Michigan, Michigan State, Indiana, and Purdue in the East.

While the Eastern Division sounds more loaded based on the names of the programs, the West actually provides five bowl teams, including the best team in the future conference, the third-best, and the fifth best. Only three of the schools in the East would have been bowling this year. Also, the Big Ten can finally have a championship game at a domed NFL Stadium like Lucas Oil Stadium or Ford Field. The winner would almost be assured a spot in the championship game based on the strength of the conference; Rose Bowl seasons would be considered failures.

Texas took a good, long look at the Big Ten in 1992, when the end of the SWC was imminent, but the geographic rule and the moratorium on further expansion instituted after Penn State's admission, combined with in-state political pressure, kept the Horns from getting a serious look at expansion.

Now, the moratorium is gone, the politicians long since voted out of office, and the geographic rule insignificant. Texas looks like the Big Ten's best shot at a 12th team capable of making the conference the most powerful in the nation.

[Bison bison]

The Bleacher Report is your source? :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

I used logic. You said AAU membership is a major determinant. That is false as the #1 choice, Notre Dame, is not a member.

You keep saying I'm out of my league and then you quote a second rate article that DOESN'T BACK YOUR ORIGINAL STATEMENT.

Quit trying to spin this.

[kurosawa]

You asked, "Who wrote this?" I provided the most recent example, with the caveat that it is by no means my original source. The AAU issue is widely known by reputable reporters and those who follow the Big Ten closely (although evidently not by big-time wannabes with delusions of grandeur).

I wrote that AAU membership is a (underscore "a") major determinant--not the major determinant--for Big Ten membership.

Something's obviously under your skin about this whole issue--something, I suspect, that has to do with some kind of pugnacious funk you're in about the Bison's lack of national stature and respect and its dismal FBS-membership prospects. Tell you what: if you choose to believe that AAU membership is not a major determinant of Big Ten membership, then that's fine with me. Or even if you want to consider me an ill-informed fool who makes rash and unsubstantiated statements, that's fine too. Either way, I'm outta here.

[NDSUstudent]

He actually said AAU membership and research was a major component as well. He even called NDSU an average regional research institution. I believe NDSU does more research than Notre Dame, by about $30 million. I guess NDSU is pretty average...#128 in total research(out 668) and #41 in schools that don't have a med school(out of 538). NDSU is ahead of a number of BCS schools if you want to talk about research, I won't start with the WAC or even MWC.

So the school the Big Ten covets the most, lacks the two academic qualities kurosawa highlighted. But they don't lack a great football tradition and huge fanbase that is very capable of extending the Big 10 Network.

I am fully aware NDSU lacks everything needed to be in the Big 10. But academically I think NDSU would be very attractive to the WAC.

[Bison bison]

You asked, "Who wrote this?" I provided the most recent example, with the caveat that it is by no means my original source. The AAU issue is widely known by reputable reporters and those who follow the Big Ten closely (although evidently not by big-time wannabes with delusions of grandeur).

I wrote that AAU membership is a (underscore "a") major determinant--not the major determinant--for Big Ten membership.

Something's obviously under your skin about this whole issue--something, I suspect, that has to do with some kind of pugnacious funk you're in about the Bison's lack of national stature and respect and its dismal FBS-membership prospects. Tell you what: if you choose to believe that AAU membership is not a major determinant of Big Ten membership, then that's fine with me. Or even if you want to consider me an ill-informed fool who makes rash and unsubstantiated statements, that's fine too. Either way, I'm outta here.

dude. being a member of AAU is not a determinant - period.

i think you're a person who made an incorrect statement, either by mistake or err in logic. either way it's been pointed out and you won't back down.

[Facts]

Isn't how you weigh a research institutions worth based on how much reseach money you have coming in? If Ohio State has a huge faculty to serve those ~40,000 students , then they are going to have more professors getting grants to fund their research and more money simply based on numbers... Right?

[Twentysix]

Boys, boys, boys...settle down. What's the point? Does this sort of urinating match solve anything? Do you feel better about yourselves if you "win" a contest of insults and put-downs like this? Are our egos so fragile that we must derive self-respect from the teams we root for?

Let's be friends and stick to the facts in this discussion, shall we?

--At their respective levels, North Dakota State has a far better track record in football over the last four decades than Minnesota. No questions about it--you can look it up.

--The crucial point in the above statement is "respective levels." NDSU could win three or four FCS championships and still not garner the national attention Minnesota would by finishing in the middle of the Big Ten pack and winning the Champs Sports or Alamo Bowl. That's no criticism or put-down of NDSU or a puffing up of Minnesota--just a statement of the way things are and always will be in college football.

--It's conceivable that NDSU might one day, years in the future, gain entrance into one of the mid-tier western-states FBS conferences (the Mountain West or WAC, perhaps), although a lot would have to happen (mostly in the way of substantial facilities and financial upgrades) even to accomplish that. But no matter how dominant NDSU might become on the field--even if, as is highly unlikely, it excelled in the Mountain West (more likely it would languish in the middle of the pack or lower)--there is NO WAY the school EVER would gain admittance to a BCS conference, for two very simple reasons: television market and academics.

TELEVISION: It's the name of the game in sports today--no great secret or revelation in that. And North Dakota, as one of America's least populous states, simply couldn't supply the demographic to satisfy the networks and consequently deliver the bucks to conference coffers.

ACADEMICS: Every school in the Big Ten, and I believe the Big XII as well, is a member of the Association of American Universities (AAU), the esteemed consortium of the top 65 or 70 research universities in the country. AAU membership will be a major determinant of which school the Big 10 ultimately admits as its 12th member. I'm not pointing this out to puncture any pretensions or delusions some of you might have had about Big 10 or Big XII membership; I'm pointing it out simply to underscore the often-overlooked importance that academic stature plays in conference membership. It's why schools like Cincinnati and Louisville would never be seriously considered for Big 10 membership, no matter how good they are on the field or court. For what it is, NDSU is a good school, but "what it is" is a fairly average regional institution lacking any sort of high-powered research program.

So be content with your lot, Bison fans. You root for a school that is off the map and the radar of big-time college athletics. Excel at your level; take pride in winning championships that will be noticed mostly in places like Cedar Falls, Iowa, and Youngstown, Ohio, with a smattering of national attention in the FCS world. To want more, or even to pretend that a whole lot more is possible, is to invite bitterness, frustration, and the temptation to take senseless envy-motivated potshots at Minnesota.

What about boise st? If they were transplanted to fargo i betcha big 10 would come a knockin.

If NDSU did move to WAC or MW and had the success boise has had i guarantee a BCS conf would be knockin.

Though our location makes more sense for Big 12 ultimately as a BCS conf then big 10.

[TheBisonator]

NDSU is just about a top-100 research university, although I agree that still wouldn't be enough to be in the AAU. But NDSU has more research dollars and offers more doctorates between Minneapolis and Moscow, ID/Pullman, WA. Not Big XII material, but please don't call us an "average" research school. UND is more of an "average" research school.