Why

[unbison]

Why are people still thinking we should jump up to FBS?
We cant compete in the mvfc..... and little note the conf did not show
well this year in the playoffs

[56BISON73]

Why are people still thinking we should jump up to FBS?
We cant compete in the mvfc..... and little note the conf did not show
well this year in the playoffs

You need to talk to your little buddy about that one:D We are way way years out from even thinking about that move.

[Hammersmith]

Why are people still thinking we should jump up to FBS?
We cant compete in the mvfc..... and little note the conf did not show
well this year in the playoffs

You don't base a move this big off of one or two seasons. You don't decide to move up just because you've had a couple 10-1 seasons, and you don't decide not to move up just because of a couple sub-.500 seasons. You make the decision on what is right for your university in the long-term.

Also, for a school like NDSU, the decision to move up or not will have more to do with the non-football sports and the university in general than it will with the football program. Moving to FBS means looking for a new conference. That decision will have huge implications for almost every sport at NDSU except maybe wrestling. It may have big budgetary effects across the board. Not only might it seriously increase travel costs for all sports(depending on the conference), but it would place us in a new bidding war for coaches. In the Summit, it's pretty easy for us to pay top dollar for most coaches in the non-revenue sports. We're at or near the top for WBB, VB, T&F, Soc, & SB. Moving to the WAC, MAC or an FBS MVC would change all that. The 22 additional football scholarships would be a drop in the bucket compared to all the other costs that would come with the move.

Western Kentucky was in the opposite situation; they were already in the Sun Belt for everything but football. Since they were in a reverse Title IX situation(they needed to add men's scholarships), the move up was almost revenue-neutral for them. We wouldn't be so lucky. I can't imagine any established FBS conference would let a Summit member join as a football affiliate; the Summit is just way too far down the DI pecking order.

That's not to say NDSU should never go FBS, just that the hurdles are far greater than one or two bad football seasons. Here's a question you need to ask yourselves: If moving to an FBS conference means that the football program would be mired in mediocrity while all the other sports would benefit, would it still be worth it? Because that's what might just happen. And it might even be what's best for NDSU as a whole. We can't allow ourselves to fall into the same trap that a large portion of the UND fanbase subscribes to. We can't make football our sacred cow that stays protected even while the rest of the athletic department suffers. We have to continually reassess our position and find the correct balance for the times. If we've learned anything from Chapman's tenure, it has to be that.

[CaBisonFan]

Why are people still thinking we should jump up to FBS? We cant compete in the mvfc..... and little note the conf did not show well this year in the playoffs

It's a dream that some of us have had for a long, long time. I remember Ron Erhardt talking about it when he coached here approaching 40 years ago. It's not practical now...especially in this economy. And with the move to the FCS, and out of the Great West, we've had enough moving around for a while. Hammersmith presented some good arguments against it.

IMO...we shouldn't have left the Great West. A conference with all 4 Dakota universities and the other three members would have been better for us. I don't like the cities that the MVFC schools are in. It's just a personal thing having played rock & roll at many of those universities during my travels. What's a more tactful way of calling some of them dumps that are drug traffic hotbeds for Chicago, Indianapolis, and St. Louis? And those schools are viewed as the stepchildren to their Big Ten brethren...and are treated as such by the population. UNI would be an exception.

[tjbison]

It's a dream that some of us have had for a long, long time. I remember Ron Erhardt talking about it when he coached here approaching 40 years ago. It's not practical now...especially in this economy. And with the move to the FCS, and out of the Great West, we've had enough moving around for a while. Hammersmith presented some good arguments against it.

IMO...we shouldn't have left the Great West. A conference with all 4 Dakota universities and the other three members would have been better for us. I don't like the cities that the MVFC schools are in. It's just a personal thing having played rock & roll at many of those universities during my travels. What's a more tactful way of calling some of them dumps that are drug traffic hotbeds for Chicago, Indianapolis, and St. Louis? And those schools are viewed as the stepchildren to their Big Ten brethren...and are treated as such by the population. UNI would be an exception.


Auto Bid>no auto bid

Chappy and Taylor would have been complete morons to turn down the MVC. the Great west offered nothing with SUU and the Cali schools. We recruit Illinois, Iowa, WI, MI and playing 3 teams from Illinois, 1 from Iowa helps alot more than telling a kids parents from Michigan, IL, WI etc. that they are going to have to have to travel to California and Utah

[Hammersmith]

Auto Bid>no auto bid

Chappy and Taylor would have been complete morons to turn down the MVC. the Great west offered nothing with SUU and the Cali schools. We recruit Illinois, Iowa, WI, MI and playing 3 teams from Illinois, 1 from Iowa helps alot more than telling a kids parents from Michigan, IL, WI etc. that they are going to have to have to travel to California and Utah

This.


(10 char)

[SDbison]

NDSU will eventually move to FBS because FCS is pretty much like the old DII except with more travel. Also, the playoff system still has problems due to the need to regionalize games versus make the correct pairings.
If Idaho and Wyoming can have FCS football so should North Dakota. NDSU is growing and will continue to do so. It is about time to have this region represented at the highest level.
Nationally nobody cares about FCS playoffs and they get little or no media attention. Yesterday, for example none of the FCS playoff games were on easily accessible TV, but the DII semi final playoff game was on ESPN. Wow, proves that DII is treated the same if not better than FCS. What a joke. Even the most no name bowl game in FBS gets 10 times the media coverage that the FCS championship game gets.
So go ahead naysayers.......list all the hurdles and issues. Guess NDSU should have stayed DII......there were lots of obstacles to overcome.

[Gully]

Why are people still thinking we should jump up to FBS?
We cant compete in the mvfc..... and little note the conf did not show
well this year in the playoffs

This is a very shortsighted post. We certainly can compete in the mvfc. You don't base decisions like this on one or two years (be it 10-1 or 3-8). It's a long term decision. I think it will happen eventually but right now isn't the time unless we have some big dollar donors come through. I would be in favor of any of the following (listed in my order of preference).

WAC for all sports
Mountain West for all sports
Missouri Valley for all sports, moving football to IA (they'd have to agree to take us for the Summit League sports).

I'm not at all interested in the MAC.....just personal preference but that conference does nothing for me. Besides, we already own the MAC in football.:)

[Hammersmith]

Hey, I've made no secret that I want NDSU to go FBS as part of a larger MVC move. It's just that I get tired of the idiots from both sides that think the decision should be based on a couple seasons of on-the-field performance. I thought the people who said, "We're 10-1 for the last two seasons; we should go FBS because we're better than FCS," were idiots a couple years ago just like I think the same of those who pop in to say, "How can you consider going FBS when you can't even place in the top half of your conference." How the team is doing on the field is such a tiny piece of the puzzle. Heck, even the football program altogether will be the smaller part of the decsion.

[lakesbison]

WAC or MAC NOW, not in 2020, NOW.

no one gives a crap about FCS, there are 3 good teams in MVFC (SIU, No. Iowa and Youngstown) SDSU is average at best.


IDAHO, WYOMING, BOISE ST, all of those have less of a marketplace to suceed than NDSU & FARGO.

FBS is where NDSU needs to be, not this FCS crap. and now with every little TIMMY and JOHNNY moving up too. its time to LOOK AHEAD.


WAC lets unbison and sdbison put on their thongs on the beach for a Hawaii game and San Diego State game!!

[unbison]

Hey, I've made no secret that I want NDSU to go FBS as part of a larger MVC move. It's just that I get tired of the idiots from both sides that think the decision should be based on a couple seasons of on-the-field performance. I thought the people who said, "We're 10-1 for the last two seasons; we should go FBS because we're better than FCS," were idiots a couple years ago just like I think the same of those who pop in to say, "How can you consider going FBS when you can't even place in the top half of your conference." How the team is doing on the field is such a tiny piece of the puzzle. Heck, even the football program altogether will be the smaller part of the decsion.
Can NDSU really raise another 5 or 10 million a year for fbs football? Would have to expand or tear down fargo dome.....20,000 seats is not enough to support FBS football and be competitive...... so now the 35 mil that they need for a basketball arena and cant get is gonna look like small potatoes!

[56BISON73]

You don't base a move this big off of one or two seasons. You don't decide to move up just because you've had a couple 10-1 seasons, and you don't decide not to move up just because of a couple sub-.500 seasons. You make the decision on what is right for your university in the long-term.

Also, for a school like NDSU, the decision to move up or not will have more to do with the non-football sports and the university in general than it will with the football program. Moving to FBS means looking for a new conference. That decision will have huge implications for almost every sport at NDSU except maybe wrestling. It may have big budgetary effects across the board. Not only might it seriously increase travel costs for all sports(depending on the conference), but it would place us in a new bidding war for coaches. In the Summit, it's pretty easy for us to pay top dollar for most coaches in the non-revenue sports. We're at or near the top for WBB, VB, T&F, Soc, & SB. Moving to the WAC, MAC or an FBS MVC would change all that. The 22 additional football scholarships would be a drop in the bucket compared to all the other costs that would come with the move.

Western Kentucky was in the opposite situation; they were already in the Sun Belt for everything but football. Since they were in a reverse Title IX situation(they needed to add men's scholarships), the move up was almost revenue-neutral for them. We wouldn't be so lucky. I can't imagine any established FBS conference would let a Summit member join as a football affiliate; the Summit is just way too far down the DI pecking order.

That's not to say NDSU should never go FBS, just that the hurdles are far greater than one or two bad football seasons. Here's a question you need to ask yourselves: If moving to an FBS conference means that the football program would be mired in mediocrity while all the other sports would benefit, would it still be worth it? Because that's what might just happen. And it might even be what's best for NDSU as a whole. We can't allow ourselves to fall into the same trap that a large portion of the UND fanbase subscribes to. We can't make football our sacred cow that stays protected even while the rest of the athletic department suffers. We have to continually reassess our position and find the correct balance for the times. If we've learned anything from Chapman's tenure, it has to be that.

Outstanding post!!!!!!!!!!

[Hammersmith]

Can NDSU really raise another 5 or 10 million a year for fbs football? Would have to expand or tear down fargo dome.....20,000 seats is not enough to support FBS football and be competitive...... so now the 35 mil that they need for a basketball arena and cant get is gonna look like small potatoes!

I agree that a 20k seat stadium can't support FBS in the long run, but I think it could for about decade. In the longer term, I think Fargo will vote to renovate and expand the Fargodome as it approaches 40 or 50 years old. As for the FBS move itself, we're not talking one or two years here, we're talking five to ten or, more likely, ten to fifteen. Ten years until the move plus ten years in the current Fargodome gets us very close to that half-life renovation point(the FD is projected to structually last 100 years).

My dream is to see a complex on the FD site consisting of a 30-35k seat main floor, a 6-10k seat basketball arena attached per the existing plan, and a convention center built on the south side to replace the Civic. Develop the old Osco/Sunmart/K-Mart site to the north to provide more hotels and resturants, and eventually tear down the Biosciences Research Lab for additional parking for the FD, Newman and Ellig, and you've got a great sports/entertainment complex.

The first step is to get the basketball facility built and get back to the Dance a few times to be attractive to the MVC. We also need SDSU to keep it up in FB and get their MBB program back on track. Two years out of three, the Summit champion needs to come from either NDSU or SDSU. The reason SDSU needs to be strong is that we're more attractive as a pair than we are seperately. They also need a new FB facility, but that's only a little behind our BB facility in their respective planning stages.

[TransAmBison]

NDSU will eventually move to FBS because FCS is pretty much like the old DII except with more travel. Also, the playoff system still has problems due to the need to regionalize games versus make the correct pairings.
If Idaho and Wyoming can have FCS football so should North Dakota. NDSU is growing and will continue to do so. It is about time to have this region represented at the highest level.
Nationally nobody cares about FCS playoffs and they get little or no media attention. Yesterday, for example none of the FCS playoff games were on easily accessible TV, but the DII semi final playoff game was on ESPN. Wow, proves that DII is treated the same if not better than FCS. What a joke. Even the most no name bowl game in FBS gets 10 times the media coverage that the FCS championship game gets.
So go ahead naysayers.......list all the hurdles and issues. Guess NDSU should have stayed DII......there were lots of obstacles to overcome.
Yes, but this will all take more funding. Some even put up a stink about $75 to throw in for a tailgating spot. Kind of hard to come up with the extra capital with stingy donors like that! :D

Yes, FCS is a lot like the old DII...in the respect that we are amongst peer institutions. There was NOTHING wrong with the old DII before they cut scholarships.

[BisonNeil]

NDSU will eventually move to FBS because FCS is pretty much like the old DII except with more travel. Also, the playoff system still has problems due to the need to regionalize games versus make the correct pairings.
If Idaho and Wyoming can have FCS football so should North Dakota. NDSU is growing and will continue to do so. It is about time to have this region represented at the highest level.
Nationally nobody cares about FCS playoffs and they get little or no media attention. Yesterday, for example none of the FCS playoff games were on easily accessible TV, but the DII semi final playoff game was on ESPN. Wow, proves that DII is treated the same if not better than FCS. What a joke. Even the most no name bowl game in FBS gets 10 times the media coverage that the FCS championship game gets.
So go ahead naysayers.......list all the hurdles and issues. Guess NDSU should have stayed DII......there were lots of obstacles to overcome.

Your arguments are hollow and poorly investigated.

True, a DII SEMIFINAL game was on ESPN yesterday, and next week the DII championship game will be on. ESPN will then televise two DII games.

But, also next week BOTH FCS semi-final games will be on ESPN and the championship game will be on the following week. Therefore, 50% more playoff games will be on ESPN for FCS than DII.

If NDSU goes FBS in football it will have little effect on the other sports, which don't have DIAA or DIA designations. They are simply DI. Being a mid-major in the Summit is not much different then being mid-major in the MAC, WAC or MWC. In fact, many of the Bison sports now play those teams from those mid-major conferences and win.

The effect a change to FBS status in football would have on NDSU athletics is that the extra 22 scholarships given for men's football would have to be added to women's sports due to Title IX, effectively doubling the need for scholarship dollars. Don't under estimate how difficult that would be for NDSU to do in our market.

[NDSUstudent]

We will need a new basketball arena before this can even be thought about, conferences like the WAC are very serious about basketball and they would laugh at the BSA.

I think to make FBS work NDSU would need to add $10 million to their athletic budget. I am not talking about one time, that is $10 million every year. Some of that will go to fund additional scholarships and the rest for the increasing costs to pay coaches and their staffs at a higher levels. What we pay Saul for example would not even be close to competitive in WAC.

[devin45k]

Cuz some people think "bigger and better" and not being the best in something smaller

[Gully]

We will need a new basketball arena before this can even be thought about, conferences like the WAC are very serious about basketball and they would laugh at the BSA.

I think to make FBS work NDSU would need to add $10 million to their athletic budget. I am not talking about one time, that is $10 million every year. Some of that will go to fund additional scholarships and the rest for the increasing costs to pay coaches and their staffs at a higher levels. What we pay Saul for example would not even be close to competitive in WAC.

We need a new basketball arena before this can be done, yes. We do not need a basketball arena before this can be thought about. It takes years, maybe decades, for things like this to happen. Yes, it will take more money. I really believe it will happen, but it will take time.

[NDSUstudent]

We need a new basketball arena before this can be done, yes. We do not need a basketball arena before this can be thought about. It takes years, maybe decades, for things like this to happen. Yes, it will take more money. I really believe it will happen, but it will take time.

Something could happen soon though, the WAC could possibly lose a few teams and would have to look at adding FCS teams.

I also heard on a FCS board that some schools want to lower the scholarship level to 50. I am not sure how serious they are about it but that is something that could have a huge effect on the FCS if it ever came to fruition. There are a lot of schools struggling financially....

I know a lot of people like to say this is something that could take decades, but the next window could very well come within the next five years.

[tjbison]

Something could happen soon though, the WAC could possibly lose a few teams and would have to look at adding FCS teams.

I also heard on a FCS board that some schools want to lower the scholarship level to 50. I am not sure how serious they are about it but that is something that could have a huge effect on the FCS if it ever came to fruition. There are a lot of schools struggling financially....


Those schools should go Non-scholly or join the NEC.

[NDSUstudent]

Those schools should go Non-scholly or join the NEC.

They should but they won't. We saw it in DII, the have nots band together and water down the entire division. This could become easier for them to do, Montana's AD said that a lot of teams may move up when moratorium is lifted.

[02Bison]

Why are people still thinking we should jump up to FBS?
We cant compete in the mvfc..... and little note the conf did not show
well this year in the playoffs

Exactly....why join that B.S. divsion!

[CaBisonFan]

Auto Bid>no auto bid

Chappy and Taylor would have been complete morons to turn down the MVC. the Great west offered nothing with SUU and the Cali schools. We recruit Illinois, Iowa, WI, MI and playing 3 teams from Illinois, 1 from Iowa helps alot more than telling a kids parents from Michigan, IL, WI etc. that they are going to have to have to travel to California and Utah

The auto-bid is over-rated. Have a great team...yir in. If you don't have a great team, no point in going. Having a big, solid Great West would have brought an eventual auto-bid. Looks like our auto-bid got hammered this past weekend.

[Tatanka]

The auto-bid is over-rated.

Dude. You can't be serious.

[tjbison]

The auto-bid is over-rated. Have a great team...yir in. If you don't have a great team, no point in going. Having a big, solid Great West would have brought an eventual auto-bid. Looks like our auto-bid got hammered this past weekend.

Overrated???? CA man are you serious? you win 8 games in the MVFC your in the Playoffs don't need to win the conference, you win 10 in the GWC and you MIGHT get in the playoffs.

[Facts]

The auto-bid is over-rated. Have a great team...yir in. If you don't have a great team, no point in going. Having a big, solid Great West would have brought an eventual auto-bid. Looks like our auto-bid got hammered this past weekend.

Ca, I don't get your motivations for the Bison to be in a division with California schools. I guess there are some things I'll just never understand...

PS. How are things out in Carrington?

[ndsubison1]

Great West = Sun Belt of FCS, Missouri Valley = Big 12

[OldBison]

Dude. You can't be serious.

I agree with CA on this and have stated many times that the auto-bid is way over rated as a reason why the MVFC was attractive. In the first 10 yrs of NDSUs membership in the MVFC my guess is that the Bison will get maybe 1 or 2 automatic bids to the playoffs. It will be meaningless in the whole scheme of things for NDSU and the playoffs. UNI and SIU will continue to have a stranglehold on it :banghead:

The true value of MVFC membership was in the stabilization of the scheduling. Taylor only has to find 3 games as opposed to trying to find 7games when we were in the Great West. Not very many IAA teams west of the Mississippi so that part was huge.

The autobid, not such a big deal, and that will be well demonstrated over the next several years :blush:

[steelbison]

I agree with CA on this and have stated many times that the auto-bid is way over rated as a reason why the MVFC was attractive. In the first 10 yrs of NDSUs membership in the MVFC my guess is that the Bison will get maybe 1 or 2 automatic bids to the playoffs. It will be meaningless in the whole scheme of things for NDSU and the playoffs. UNI and SIU will continue to have a stranglehold on it :banghead:

The true value of MVFC membership was in the stabilization of the scheduling. Taylor only has to find 3 games as opposed to trying to find 7games when we were in the Great West. Not very many IAA teams west of the Mississippi so that part was huge.

The autobid, not such a big deal, and that will be well demonstrated over the next several years :blush:


Wow....lets go over a few more things other than the MVC is a great conference with great tradition.

Makes scheduling a lot easier, recruit kids in the region that can see their kids play.(Good luck on a road trip to Utah or Cali.)

The auto-bid to dismiss it is just crazy!!! Playing in a conference with the reputation of the MVC will give you a min. of 2-3 teams every year in the playoffs(4 on a good year.)

The great west you might and I mean might get a single team per year.

How anyone couldn't understand this is beyond me....

[56BISON73]

Even without the auto bid the MVC is a much better conference than the great west.

[bisonhusker]

When we were in the Great West, there were 4 (of the 5) teams in the top 20 (not sure how long, but at least for a while), now the conference is a mess. Similar to the 3-8 Bison...ha.

[TheBisonator]

I've come to realize recently that all this talk about moving to FBS is crazy as long as we still have the shitty BSA for basketball. I am in the camp that believes we should be in the FBS sometime in the future, preferably in a FBS MVFC. But PLEASE PLEASE can we build a new basketball arena NOW?? We don't need this arena today, we don't need it yesterday, we need it 5 years ago!!

I'm pissed off, cause I'm sick of watching basketball games in that shitcage.

[lakesbison]

FBS = BBALL in the FARGODOME. like they shouldve in 2007-2008 with woody and company.

and BEEER!!

[Bison bison]

Thanks for the insight bisonator.

All we need now is $30 million and a time machine...

[DjKyRo]

Thanks for the insight bisonator.

All we need now is $30 million and a time machine...

Really if we got the time machine we could just go back and invest in Apple or discover the Bakken oil field in western ND or something, money isn't really the necessary factor in this plan. :D

[SDbison]

Really if we got the time machine we could just go back and invest in Apple or discover the Bakken oil field in western ND or something, money isn't really the necessary factor in this plan. :D
So if NDSU never gets a big time investor the state will never.......I mean like in 50 years, spend money to provide a decent DI basketball facility for the 64th largest university in the USA? Seems strange that there is no state pride now that NDSU is DI and has gone to the dance. I know, the idiot UND politicians in charge will prevent it, but how is the university ever going to be able to grow in stature? If the BSA was even a true basketball arena it could possibly be upgraded, but with those damn pillars and low roof it is doomed to be nothing more than a piss poor DII multi-purpose facility.