West Coast offense

[DjKyRo]

So maybe this is my total n00bishness at all things football showing, but why exactly are we so hardcore about the West Coast offense? Short dunk passes all over the place, dumping the ball two yards on 3rd and 8, not taking the deep ball.

Is there some reason we stick to the West Coast? What are the advantages of running it?

[CaBisonFan]

So maybe this is my total n00bishness at all things football showing, but why exactly are we so hardcore about the West Coast offense? Short dunk passes all over the place, dumping the ball two yards on 3rd and 8, not taking the deep ball.

Is there some reason we stick to the West Coast? What are the advantages of running it?

I'm not an expert by any means...but my view of the West Coast is that it is extremely dependent upon having a quarterback that fits the mold perfectly. The ultimate was Joe Montana. Steve Walker was a great fit for the Bison, obviously. To me...they're like offensive coordinators on the field that 'must' have the ability to audible on almost every down. That was Walker. Very few high schools run it anymore for the above reasons. Too complex.

Wizards are hard to find. Also...the pump-fake and looking-off receivers is rather important. The West Coast is an extremely 'heady' offense at any level. Some bisonville members would say that we run a power West Coast...which is really a running offense. They might be right. I still don't like it...for the reasons that you wrote about.

Not exactly sure what we're running now. It's hard to analyze chaos.

[NDSUstudent]

A lot of it has to do with talent. Those shorts passes can turn into long gains when you have a QB that is accurate and athletes that can rack up some yards after catch. We'll get there again, just give it time.

Our only other options are pro-style(which wasn't exactly much better under Babich), option, and the spread(which requires athletes everywhere). The power west coast is probably the ideal offense to run in this region.

[HerdBot]

So maybe this is my total n00bishness at all things football showing, but why exactly are we so hardcore about the West Coast offense? Short dunk passes all over the place, dumping the ball two yards on 3rd and 8, not taking the deep ball.

Is there some reason we stick to the West Coast? What are the advantages of running it?

Brad Childress was right when he called it a kick ass offense a few years ago and it works when you have good receivers and a QB. Ask the Vikings.

With T Jack at QB we were a middle of the road offense at best.

With Favre and Harvin, we have the 2nd most potent offense in the NFL. We're averaging over 30 points per game.

[mgbison]

it works if you have the personel. It's sad to say, but the team we had in week 1, would beat the team we have now by at least 2 td's. We have absolutely no one to throw it to right now. We probably have the worst receivers in the conference and the qb situation has already been beaten to death. also, add the injuries at the te position and who do you throw to? it's easy to rip on the o cordinator, but what plays do you call when you have no confidence in your qb, receivers or te's.

At least there will be (should be) a qb competition this spring. the word on the street that many have pointed to is that Jensen is looking very impressive (who really knows?).

this obviously comes down to 2 poor recruiting classes back to back. esp, guys like champ and bourne mcfarland not panning out really hurt. the coaching staff is the only ones to blame for that, but it's college football and live and learn. The challenge Bohl has ahead of him is to make sure he finds assistants that want to be here and take it seriously, instead of using it as a quick stop for the next level. I know a coulple of coaches that were let go/ moved on didn't exactly pull there weight on the recruiting front.

[GOB1SON]

Offense and defensive philosophies come from the head coach.

Coach Bohl wants to run the West Coast offense and play a Tampa 2 style defense.

The West Coast offense is designed around a huge offensive line, power runs between the tackles, short passes on crosses and slants, and just as importantly screens. The great WC offenses all run screens very effectively. Roger Craig, Brian Westbrook, etc...

You don't have to have great WR's to run a WC offense. Look at Philly and Green Bay over the past 15 years. Name one "great" wide reciever that came out of there. Sterling Sharpe. Donald Driver and Robert Brooks are/were not great WR's. Yet Favre and McNabb put up huge numbers every year in that style of offense and offensively the teams were very successful. The TE may be just as important in a the classic WC.

The Tampa 2 is a defense that Monte Kiffen designed specifically to stop the WC. Safeties lay back to provide deep support on screens and crossing routes. As more and more teams started running the WC, more and more teams started running the Tampa 2.

So to counteract the Tampa 2, a lot of (ie. most) colleges are now running the spread. Make the safeties come up to the line of scrimmage to cover the 3rd and 4th WR, etc... Take advantage of the aggresive nature of the T2 by getting the RB by the DL quickly. So, now a lot of (ie. a lot of) colleges are starting to move to a 3-4 to counteract the spread.

NDSU is still running the WC, apparently without plays that take advantage of slants and crossing routes, or that use the TE, or screens. The power running game seems to be OK.

And NDSU is still running the T2 defense against the spread offenses in the MVC and getting killed on a weekly basis.

There is my partial treatise on that subject. I could write all damn day about it.

[stevdock]

Good info above. I didn't realize that the main reason we struggle against the spread is because of still running the T2. But it definitely makes sense. I still personally believe that the defensive scheme/individual assignments are messed up when we are defending the spread.

Offense is another story all together. We are not running enough of the WC offense to actually be effective with it. Is that because of who we have on the field?? Probably, but the screens and slants have to be run. I think Voit and DJ would be great backs for the screen plays. I would also argue that we need to run more drag routes. If you think back to the San Fran championship teams, they rarely completely a pass over 7 or 8 yards but a ton of them were turned into big plays because the receiver was in space and could turn it up the field.

[SDbison]

The play selection and execution of the West Coast as run by NDSU sucks. Missing half the personnel to make it effective and stupid a$$ calls like running Paschall on a dive play on the goal line just doesn't make sense.

[Fightin' Bison]

Brad Childress was right when he called it a kick ass offense a few years ago and it works when you have good receivers and a QB. Ask the Vikings.

All offenses work with a good QB and good receivers. The scheme is the most overrated aspect of the game. Players make the scheme. Players make the coaches look like fools or geniuses. Pick a scheme, any scheme, and good players will make it look dangerous. FCS isn't the NFL, so yes, the veer would work - with the players.

Coaches like the West Coast because it's a lot easier to find a QB who can accurately time and throw a 5 yard out, than it is to find a QB who can accurately time and throw a 15 yard post, plus find the offensive linemen who can hold their pass protection long enough to allow the receiver to run that route.

Virtually every offense - when it throws - is built on short passes. I don't think that even Peyton Manning averages 10 yds per completion. You have to count on players making plays to make those short passes into long gains, regardless of schemes. Despite the crowing about our "deep" stable of running backs, only two of them, PP and Voit have shown any ability to consistently turn short gains into long ones. Talk all you want about "athleticism" and "upside", come back to me when the conversation turns to actual production. There is only one receiver who has consistently shown the ability to catch a ball, and he hasn't show great ability in making the first tackler miss. This is the greatest single area of need by NDSU.

Virtually this entire offensive debacle is generated by very poor receivers, which leads to staring down the one good receiver (Williams), gambling with throws into double coverage, and chucking the ball down field and hoping for the best. Two QB's have now proven that.

West Coast, Veer, Spread, All 11, Wishbone, whatever. Bigger, faster, harder working athletes with more character will make it work. Rivals ratings are a joke. More than one Rivals-ranked athlete has come through Fargo in the past few years only to wash out with little to no production. How many Rivals stars did Steffes have, or Dahl, or Mays, or Frick, or PP, etc.?

[NDSUstudent]

PP had two stars ;)

I get your point, most ND and MN kids are completely overlooked and others was just great recruiting. Roehl, Steffes, Heckendorf, Mays, etc were not even mentioned on rivals.

[WildBill]

Offense and defensive philosophies come from the head coach.

Coach Bohl wants to run the West Coast offense and play a Tampa 2 style defense.

The West Coast offense is designed around a huge offensive line, power runs between the tackles, short passes on crosses and slants, and just as importantly screens. The great WC offenses all run screens very effectively. Roger Craig, Brian Westbrook, etc...

You don't have to have great WR's to run a WC offense. Look at Philly and Green Bay over the past 15 years. Name one "great" wide reciever that came out of there. Sterling Sharpe. Donald Driver and Robert Brooks are/were not great WR's. Yet Favre and McNabb put up huge numbers every year in that style of offense and offensively the teams were very successful. The TE may be just as important in a the classic WC.

The Tampa 2 is a defense that Monte Kiffen designed specifically to stop the WC. Safeties lay back to provide deep support on screens and crossing routes. As more and more teams started running the WC, more and more teams started running the Tampa 2.

So to counteract the Tampa 2, a lot of (ie. most) colleges are now running the spread. Make the safeties come up to the line of scrimmage to cover the 3rd and 4th WR, etc... Take advantage of the aggresive nature of the T2 by getting the RB by the DL quickly. So, now a lot of (ie. a lot of) colleges are starting to move to a 3-4 to counteract the spread.

NDSU is still running the WC, apparently without plays that take advantage of slants and crossing routes, or that use the TE, or screens. The power running game seems to be OK.

And NDSU is still running the T2 defense against the spread offenses in the MVC and getting killed on a weekly basis.

There is my partial treatise on that subject. I could write all damn day about it.

I think you are quite misinformed to say the least on the Tampa 2. Most everything you said about the Tampa 2 is totally false. For starters, the "Tampa 2" was the creation of Bud Carson during the Steel curtain days in Pittsburgh. Dungy even says on the record, that he made very few tweaks in his version. Secondly, the goal of the Tampa 2 is to prevent explosive plays and limit high scoring offenses by making them settle for short passes and time consuming drives. Hello, thats exactly what the goal of the WCO is. Short passes, time consuming drives. Also, when most teams face a spread offense, they play with a nickel package. Having 4 LB's on the field is a mismatch against the spread. Can you even name 5 teams that run the 3-4 in college? Back to the T2. Not even the Vikings run the T2 all the time,it is just a base defense, or the bread and butter of their defensive scheme. I'd love to expand on it more, perhaps tonight

[BadlandsBison]

I think you are quite misinformed to say the least on the Tampa 2. Most everything you said about the Tampa 2 is totally false. For starters, the "Tampa 2" was the creation of Bud Carson during the Steel curtain days in Pittsburgh. Dungy even says on the record, that he made very few tweaks in his version. Secondly, the goal of the Tampa 2 is to prevent explosive plays and limit high scoring offenses by making them settle for short passes and time consuming drives. Hello, thats exactly what the goal of the WCO is. Short passes, time consuming drives. Also, when most teams face a spread offense, they play with a nickel package. Having 4 LB's on the field is a mismatch against the spread. Can you even name 5 teams that run the 3-4 in college? Back to the T2. Not even the Vikings run the T2 all the time,it is just a base defense, or the bread and butter of their defensive scheme. I'd love to expand on it more, perhaps tonight

I think it was '03 when Tampa pounded the raiders in the super bowl. The raiders ran the West Coast offense brilliantly (so did tampa). The Tampa 2 defense ate the raiders alive.

Probably the biggest asset on their defense was the Buc's pass rush. When you can disrupt the timing of the west coast offense, things fall apart really fast. Plus, Gruden knew every one of Rich Gannon's que's so the Bucs basically knew what was coming.

I think that was the best tampa 2 defense we'll ever see, except maybe for the Steeler's steel curtin in the 70s, but I of course wasn't born yet.

[WildBill]

That defense was probably one of the best T2's i have seen. Sapp,Rice, Brooks, Lynch. There are others, but i can't remember them all. That D was stacked.

[BadlandsBison]

Dexter Jackson the FS ended up being the the super bowl MVP because of 2 early interceptions. That was because the MVP was selected by fan voting so he got a ton of votes in the first half.

Those 2 int-s can probably be credited to the pass rush of the great front 4 and the great preperation by Jon Gruden. Like I mentioned, Gruden knew where Gannon was going to throw the ball on just about any given play.

I remember all the hype going into the game was "Callahan knows Gruden through and through" but in a twist of irony, the deciding factor was actually that Gruden knew Rich Gannon through and through.

That was a fun game for me to watch:nod:

[westnodak93bison]

IMHO, I think the loss of the one starting O-lineman for the Raiders, the guy who went AWOL was the biggest deciding factor not necessarily the great play of the Bucs D. Pretty tough to replace your starting center with pretty much no notice.