Vigen on the Fan at 12:40

[The Lost Dutchman]

Lots of QB talk as well as if a certain freshman halfback's redshirt might be being pulled.

[Bison Dan]

Lots of QB talk as well as if a certain freshman halfback's redshirt might be being pulled.

Not sure why they would pull a RB's shirt when we have 2 good one's now.

[Facts]

Not sure why they would pull a RB's shirt when we have 2 good one's now.

correction, 4.

[bisontwice]

When Vig's is done, could someone give a short summary? Some of us have to work sometimes....

[DjKyRo]

huh....haven't heard anyhting of Vigen yet, they're talking about some random thing involving woodticks being burned alive or something. Maybe I have the wrong station?

EDIT: Curse my computer for looking at KFAN instead of Fargo's stuff....I'm hearing commercials, I might've missed it.

[BraxtonT]

Originally Posted by Bison Dan
Not sure why they would pull a RB's shirt when we have 2 good one's now.


correction, 4.


4, huh?

Let's see: 1. Pat Paschall 2. Matt Voigtlander 3. ???? 4. ????

We are talking about 'good' ones, right? Hmm, two more to go.

Well, there is a guy (#8) who is improving a bit, but looks to be of more help at WR. Also, we have seen some good things out of our 5' 5.5" 158 lb. guy who reminds me of being the next Pete Blincoe. Other than that, I don't think we've seen any others.

When I see more improvement out of DJ, I'll put him in at #3.

As for Sigers I simply don't believe someone of his size (weight) can be nothing more than a situational end around type runner.

Before this is labeled as another anti-Texas rant, I will continue to believe this when Mr. Smith from Wahpeton lands on campus next fall, too. When Lamar Gordon was a freshman, he wasn't that effective. When he gained the necessary weight is when he became a legitimate All-American.

[tony]

Vigen:

Is the team behind because flooding messed up spring football? Nope, for the offense, we are missing some receivers we were counting on. Some we are counting on now are injured and/or didn't participate in spring ball.

Run blocking good - pass blocking good - it wasn't so much blockers missing assignments as SIU gambling and NDSU not being able to make them pay for it.

They're looking at Ojuri because Siger's injury really hurts his ability to play - same one that slowed down Heckendorf for half of the season last year. (just a note: the redshirt isn't off until he plays - probably getting more reps though).

No questions about QBs that I remember.

Ran for 400 yards against Illinois State last year but their defense is not nearly as soft this year - he didn't think the Bison would be seeing only six or seven guys in the box this year.

that's all I have.

[bisonmike2]

Vigen:

Is the team behind because flooding messed up spring football? Nope, for the offense, we are missing some receivers we were counting on. Some we are counting on now are injured and/or didn't participate in spring ball.

Run blocking good - pass blocking good - it wasn't so much blockers missing assignments as SIU gambling and NDSU not being able to make them pay for it.

They're looking at Ojuri because Siger's injury really hurts his ability to play - same one that slowed down Heckendorf for half of the season last year. (just a note: the redshirt isn't off until he plays - probably getting more reps though).

No questions about QBs that I remember.

Ran for 400 yards against Illinois State last year but their defense is not nearly as soft this year - he didn't think the Bison would be seeing only six or seven guys in the box this year.

that's all I have.

The most obvious issue gets zero attention. Is Mertens the embarrassing drunk uncle that everyone in the family knows about but nobody discusses or when they do they make excuses for him, even though it's always his fault?

"Uncle Jim got another DUI."
"Figures. But I heard it was only a .11 and he got picked up on his way home. F'ing cops."

"Mertens threw for 50% again. He also threw a pick and failed to get a first down with 3 4th qtr possessions."

"yeah but pass protection was bad, and I think the WR's dropped a couple balls."

[Castor Troy]

When Lamar Gordon was a freshman, he wasn't that effective. When he gained the necessary weight is when he became a legitimate All-American.

You mean the best RB in Bison history!

[BraxtonT]

You mean the best RB in Bison history!

No, I wasn't talking about Tony Satter.

[The Lost Dutchman]

No, I wasn't talking about Tony Satter.

As great as Tony Satter was, he wasn't even in the same league as Lamar Gordon.

[Notorious]

As great as Tony Satter was, he wasn't even in the same league as Lamar Gordon.

While it's difficult to compare players from different teams/eras, I think this may be a bit of a stretch....I'd take Satter over Gordon if I was building a team. Not that I don't believe Gordon was an excellent back, but...

[bisonmike2]

While it's difficult to compare players from different teams/eras, I think this may be a bit of a stretch....I'd take Satter over Gordon if I was building a team. Not that I don't believe Gordon was an excellent back, but...

Ol' glass ankles Gordon? Not because he was injury prone, which he was, didn't he kick out a window on the MSUM campus which cut his leg and caused him to miss a game or two?

/by the way, I'm a Gordon fan, never saw Satter play live.

[MN_BISON]

Satter vs. Gordon, I'll take Gordon but that doesn't take anything away from Satter. Lamar was just on a different level, more speed and power, Lamar had serious jets. Look back to what his Ram teammates said about him while he was there, fast, fast, fast, to bad he had a bad wheel that shortened his career.

As for kicking out a window, yes, I'm pretty sure that happened but I don't think he missed the game because he cut his leg, pretty sure the coach found out about it and had him get off the bus just before they left to play Mankato. I'm pretty sure NDSU lost that game too.....at least that's what I remember.

[bisonmike2]

Satter vs. Gordon, I'll take Gordon but that doesn't take anything away from Satter. Lamar was just on a different level, more speed and power, Lamar had serious jets. Look back to what his Ram teammates said about him while he was there, fast, fast, fast, to bad he had a bad wheel that shortened his career.

As for kicking out a window, yes, I'm pretty sure that happened but I don't think he missed the game because he cut his leg, pretty sure the coach found out about it and had him get off the bus just before they left to play Mankato. I'm pretty sure NDSU lost that game too.....at least that's what I remember.


I know he missed the game, and I know we lost that game. For some reason I thought he injured himself.

[99Bison]

I know he missed the game, and I know we lost that game. For some reason I thought he injured himself.

He did injure himself, and that was the presumed reason for missing the game, no idea if disicple was part of it. However, he was hobbled for most the season after that.

BTW, Satter any day, any time on this disucssion. You thought he could score any time he touched the ball and made people miss - alot. Lamar style was run through big hole fast... not that there's anything wrong with that, but if Satter carried it as much as lamar he'd have way more career yards. Satter's video game career stats don't lie.

[bisonmike2]

He did injure himself, and that was the presumed reason for missing the game, no idea if disicple was part of it. However, he was hobbled for most the season after that.

BTW, Satter any day, any time on this disucssion. You thought he could score any time he touched the ball and made people miss - alot. Lamar style was run through big hole fast... not that there's anything wrong with that, but if Satter carried it as much as lamar he'd have way more career yards. Satter's video game career stats don't lie.

Wasn't Lamar just tearing it up that season? I thought for some reason Lamar was on pace for a monster year then he did that. I could be wrong. I was in college at the time and was seldom sober.

[ndsubison1]

I've heard some good things about Ojuri

[MN_BISON]

He did injure himself, and that was the presumed reason for missing the game, no idea if disicple was part of it. However, he was hobbled for most the season after that.

BTW, Satter any day, any time on this disucssion. You thought he could score any time he touched the ball and made people miss - alot. Lamar style was run through big hole fast... not that there's anything wrong with that, but if Satter carried it as much as lamar he'd have way more career yards. Satter's video game career stats don't lie.

I don't remember what I had for lunch yesterday but I thought Lamar hurt his ankle in a game and the injury left a bone fragment that was not found at the time and it gave him troubles through his time with the Rams, I don't think it was the window thing at MSUM that slowed him up for the rest of the season, but I could be wrong. In fact I think Mike Martz even called him out about not being able to play hurt and when they found the bone chip or whatever you call it he made a public apology to Lamar. Either way, something happened that year that slowed him down.

Yes, Satter had some great moves, no question about that, he could flat out make people look silly. I'll still take Lamar though.;)

[tcbison]

I'll take Satter. Averaged 9.96 yards per touch, also ran back punts and kicks. He was electric and could make people miss. Would have loved to see what he could have done as a featured back.

[NorthernBison]

I don't remember what I had for lunch yesterday but I thought Lamar hurt his ankle in a game and the injury left a bone fragment that was not found at the time and it gave him troubles through his time with the Rams, I don't think it was the window thing at MSUM that slowed him up for the rest of the season, but I could be wrong. In fact I think Mike Martz even called him out about not being able to play hurt and when they found the bone chip or whatever you call it he made a public apology to Lamar. Either way, something happened that year that slowed him down.

Yes, Satter had some great moves, no question about that, he could flat out make people look silly. I'll still take Lamar though.;)

I think Lamar hurt the ankle in the Tin Shed. Same place that Steffes ended up with a broken bone in his leg. Lamar in 2001 and Kyle in 2003. IIRC.

Edit: I went and looked at the stats. The week following the game in the tin shed in 2001 was a loss to Mankato. I think that was the game where three Bison were suspended for the Moorhead State incident. Lamar does not show up in the stats for the Mankato game. I didn't look deeper but it tends to back up my sketchy memory.

[bisontwice]

As great as Tony Satter was, he wasn't even in the same league as Lamar Gordon.
Whole different thread but.... which Bison back is better. Bruising running of Stark, Roehl or Lloyd, speed like Morris, make you miss moves of Satter or the combination of attributes of Gordon??? Can't forget Steffes either...

[coloradobison]

I think Lamar hurt the ankle in the Tin Shed. Same place that Steffes ended up with a broken bone in his leg. Lamar in 2001 and Kyle in 2003. IIRC.

Edit: I went and looked at the stats. The week following the game in the tin shed in 2001 was a loss to Mankato. I think that was the game where three Bison were suspended for the Moorhead State incident. Lamar does not show up in the stats for the Mankato game. I didn't look deeper but it tends to back up my sketchy memory.

A former RB and backup LB ran that day for the Bison, had baout 120 yards if memory serves. Seems like we lost that game by 3 or so.

[tony]

A former RB and backup LB ran that day for the Bison, had baout 120 yards if memory serves. Seems like we lost that game by 3 or so.

I think we had a chance to win it with a field goal - I flew in for that game expressly to see Gordon, but both he and his backup, Perkins, were suspended for violating curfew at Moorhead State (iirc, kicked off the bus when the coach found out about it) so that one stings. We lost by 1 and lost on a last second FG (I think it was one of ours missing). I think they also called back about 150 yards of returns by our guys. Every single KO and punt return went for about 30-40 yards - every single one got called back.

[NorthernBison]

I think we had a chance to win it with a field goal - I flew in for that game expressly to see Gordon, but both he and his backup, Perkins, were suspended for violating curfew at Moorhead State (iirc, kicked off the bus when the coach found out about it) so that one stings. We lost by 1 and lost on a last second FG (I think it was one of ours missing). I think they also called back about 150 yards of returns by our guys. Every single KO and punt return went for about 30-40 yards - every single one got called back.

Richard Lewis (kick returner) was the third Bison suspended. Game ended on blocked 41 yd Bison FG attempt.

[CarringtonBison]

A former RB and backup LB ran that day for the Bison, had baout 120 yards if memory serves. Seems like we lost that game by 3 or so.

Brian Turner was the aformentioned LB turned RB, from the central city of Carrington. He had a very good game and gave them a chance to win. Would have easily won that game had Lamar been healthy-taking nothing away from Brian's effort.

[tony]

I found some more about this game from my own archives (didn't even know these were still around!)

NDSU missed two field goals and made two field goals.

So how did the Bison end up with 25 points? Not one, but two failed 2-point conversions! And Mankato scored 26 on four TDs? Wonder if they really scored 27 and I've got a type on the scoring?

http://www.bisonville.com/zg002086.html

------

The Bison have lost so many games decided by a last-second field goal! We me must be under a kicker curse of some sort.

Seriously, have the Bison ever won a game decided by a last-minute field goal? I can think of lots of heart breakers (Troy State, Ludwig Milfors against SCSU, the Gopher game, that Mankato game) but not a single one the other way. Closest I can remember is Aaron Pederson bombing a field goal in 1997 against the 'Yotes but I think that just got us into overtime.

[Castor Troy]

I really did not mean to sabotage this thread, but it is an interesting conversation- Lamar v. Tony. I do think that Mr. Paschall has had a very similar impact to the current team as both of those had. I would add that Satter, as weird as it sounds, was almost a role player since he had such strong teams with so many weapons. Lamar and Pat were very much the center of the offense.

[tony]

I really did not mean to sabotage this thread, but it is an interesting conversation- Lamar v. Tony. I do think that Mr. Paschall has had a very similar impact to the current team as both of those had. I would add that Satter, as weird as it sounds, was almost a role player since he had such strong teams with so many weapons. Lamar and Pat were very much the center of the offense.

Only rap I ever had on Lamar were that he ran out of bounds more than any Bison running back I've ever seen (but then my memory might be bad).

I think Reggie Scott would have been the best running back ever at NDSU if he could have stayed out of trouble.

[Castor Troy]

Only rap I ever had on Lamar were that he ran out of bounds more than any Bison running back I've ever seen (but then my memory might be bad).

I think Reggie Scott would have been the best running back ever at NDSU if he could have stayed out of trouble.

For me, it goes Lamar, Tony, Reggie. But I hear that Paul Hatchett was quite good. :nod:

[EndZoneQB]

Honestly, I'd probably put Gordon's backup, Perkins, in the top 5 or so as well. He was extremely elusive and I know one year him and Gordon were 1-2 in the NCC in rushing. He woulda been a great feature back had we not had Gordon.

[TransAmBison]

I would take Satter then Gordon. No doubt about it.

[NDSUstudent]

While we are talking backs, Roehl said his ACL rehab is going well, sounded like he could be back by OTAs.

For those talking best backs ever, Roehl has to be in the discussion. He does have four of the 10 best rushing games in school history and his 2007 season might be the best in school history.

[heymch86]

No mention of Steffes in this discussion as being in the Top 5?

[BraxtonT]

Brian Turner was the aformentioned LB turned RB, from the central city of Carrington. He had a very good game and gave them a chance to win. Would have easily won that game had Lamar been healthy-taking nothing away from Brian's effort.

Lamar was healthy, just not there because of his incident at Moorhead State. I was so happy for Brian. He played a great game and did more than anyone could have expected of him.

Had Lamar played, the Bison probably still would have pissed it away that day. We had a 12 point lead early in the 4th quarter and I remember Coach Babich acting like the game was over, celebrating on the sidelines. I remember watching that and thinking that he shouldn't be doing that. Babich then shut down the offense from what they were doing for 3+ quarters and put the old prevent defense on the field for the last quarter. When Mankato scored to take the lead, the offense went back to what was working. They marched right into Maverick territory, but decided to piss away the last 40+ seconds and try a field goal from about 40 yards out. In the wind and the rain, there was no chance. We lost.

That's the way I remember it. The next time I run into BT, I'll ask him about that game, the greatest personal game of his career.

That's the reason Lamar Gordon leaves a sour taste in my mouth as a Bison. He let his entire team down, as did Perkins. Lewis getting suspended was a good thing in my mind, because he usually did more harm than good.

Again, I'll take Tony Satter and his two national championships over Lamar every time.

[spelunker64]

As you can see by how off topic this thread got. Not much news was brought forward on Dan's show yesterday...

[Castor Troy]

As you can see by how off topic this thread got. Not much news was brought forward on Dan's show yesterday...

Even though we drift, you have to admit that it was a much better conversation. :nod:

[spelunker64]

Even though we drift, you have to admit that it was a much better conversation. :nod:

Oh yeah, I'd agree. Just pointing that out

[gwfan]

Brian Turner had that great game in Mankato and then didn't travel to Northern Colo. the next week even tho Lamar was out with an injury. Was hard to figure
at the time.

[NorthernBison]

Lamar was not healthy. He either incurred the ankle injury in Grand Forks or aggravated an earlier injury. It was the same injury that hobbled him into his pro career as stated earlier.

In the Satter/ Gordon debate. I'd take Satter. He would have really rolled up the yards if you gave him the ball 25 times a game like Gordon.

Jake Morris was also a tremendous back that didn't get to showcase all of his talents because of the offensive scheme.

[bisonmike2]

No mention of Steffes in this discussion as being in the Top 5?

Word. Steffes was a workhorse. You could almost guarantee he'd get 100 yards every game.

[bisontwice]

1. A healthy Roehl-speed and power
2. Satter
3. Gordon
4. Steffes
5. Morris

[Former Hitman]

Only rap I ever had on Lamar were that he ran out of bounds more than any Bison running back I've ever seen (but then my memory might be bad).

I think Reggie Scott would have been the best running back ever at NDSU if he could have stayed out of trouble.

I had played with both Reggie Scott and Lamar...I would Reggie on the top and Lamar outside of the top 5.

[SiouxHockeyBisonFo]

1. A healthy Roehl-speed and power
2. Satter
3. Gordon
4. Steffes
5. Morris

Decent list, but I would replace Steffes with Paschall. Top 5 is probably interchangable.

What about Stark, any others from the 70s and 80s?

[IzzyFlexion]

Decent list, but I would replace Steffes with Paschall. Top 5 is probably interchangable.

What about Stark, any others from the 70s and 80s?

Good call. I might go so far as to say that Steffes hasn't even been the best Bison back out of Dickinson.
How about James "Baby Face" Molstre?
I'm not really trying to make that argument, I just wanted a clever way to crowbar in the fact that 2 great backs have come out of the Midget program....sorry, Little People program.;)

[Notorious]

There were no feature backs in the 70's and 80's, which is probably why people are "tricked" into believing the more recent guys were better. During that period of time, it was not unusual to have a 5 back rotation....yes, "5".

Many of those in the rotation would have been feature backs in any other program in the country at that time, as well as in our offensive scheme of today.

If I remember right, there were a couple years where we had (3) 1,000 yard rushers. Granted we ran the ball 80-90% of the time, but it speaks to the lack of a feature back.

[EndZoneQB]

Word. Steffes was a workhorse. You could almost guarantee he'd get 100 yards every game.

At 3 yards a carry...

[BadlandsBison]

Good call. I might go so far as to say that Steffes hasn't even been the best Bison back out of Dickinson.
How about James "Baby Face" Molstre?
I'm not really trying to make that argument, I just wanted a clever way to crowbar in the fact that 2 great backs have come out of the Midget program....sorry, Little People program.;)

Steffes = Dickinson Trinity

[Green-N-Gold]

Doug Lloyd?

[Bisonguy]

Paul Hatchett?

Some of y'all better brush up on your Bison Lore. ;)

[rutlandbison]

Steffes = Dickinson Trinity
Dickinson Trinity= Class A rejects= http://dumpcono.com/images/douchebag.jpg

[Castor Troy]

Paul Hatchett?

Some of y'all better brush up on your Bison Lore. ;)

Hatchett's been mentioned, but not found!

[MN_BISON]

Doug Lloyd?

Wasn't Doug Lloyd on the receiving end of "The Pitch"? For that alone he should be mentioned. One thing is for sure, The Bison have had their share of great backs.

[IzzyFlexion]

Steffes = Dickinson Trinity

Uhh...I did not know that. Or should I say, remember that.http://bojack.org/images/carson2.jpg
I should have stopped at the Dickinson part.:hide:

[bisontwice]

Wasn't Doug Lloyd on the receiving end of "The Pitch"? For that alone he should be mentioned. One thing is for sure, The Bison have had their share of great backs.

I believe the pitch was benny to molstre at USD.

[roadwarrior]

bisontwice is correct.

[MN_BISON]

bisontwice is correct.

Honest mistake although I should have known that one, oh well. :blush:

[ndsubison1]

I had played with both Reggie Scott and Lamar...I would Reggie on the top and Lamar outside of the top 5.

Lamar outside of the top 5? are you sure you played with him? blasphemy...

[BisonNeil]

1. A healthy Roehl-speed and power
2. Satter
3. Gordon
4. Steffes
5. Morris

I don't think Morris belongs in the top five. Not because he wasn't a great runner, but because he was not a team player.

He refused to block on pass protection and when he and Reggie Moore where in the same backfield that one year Reggie would give his body away for Morris on run blocking and Morris would play patty cake with the defender. I can truthfully say after watching 10 games that year Morris never got one block. Infuriating.

All the other guys contributed and did the other things RBs are supposed to do and should do, but not Morris, that was beneath him.

[met1990]

RE: the running back debate--
I agree with Tony about Reggie Scott. He could have been the best ever. I started watching the Bison in '88, and the best back I've seen is Satter. Lamar is a very, very close No. 2. He definitely looked like a man amongst boys, but Satter could have rushed for 2,000+ yards per year (including playoffs) if Simdorn, Sieh, etc. didn't have all those carries as well.

Aw--it's always going to be tough considering the different levels of competition and styles of offense. It's a fun debate though.

[EndZoneQB]

I don't think Morris belongs in the top five. Not because he wasn't a great runner, but because he was not a team player.

He refused to block on pass protection and when he and Reggie Moore where in the same backfield that one year Reggie would give his body away for Morris on run blocking and Morris would play patty cake with the defender. I can truthfully say after watching 10 games that year Morris never got one block. Infuriating.

All the other guys contributed and did the other things RBs are supposed to do and should do, but not Morris, that was beneath him.

Which is likely why Morris got shuffled around a few NFL teams after they realized that. I know he got tryouts with the Packers and Lions atleast...