The Culture

[CaBisonFan]

1. Travel teams - Parents party on the bus and in hotels. Kids develop an early attitude about their position in life...and how to act. It all starts too early.

2. High School - Our recruits are stars in high school. It don't stink...in their minds.

3. College - Drinking everywhere...including the parking lot before games...and in the arena at an educational facility.

NCAA - Standardize the punishment. Take the heat off the coaches that want a disciplined program.

(UC Riverside recently had a case where a star pitcher sued the school for being suspended. He was a blue-chip MLB prospect. They settled for a nice sum. I'd bet that NDSU's attorneys know about this, and that they advise extreme caution.)

[roadwarrior]

I need a drink!

[CaBisonFan]

I need a drink!

Ha! Good response. :nod:

I just cut it down so that you don't need more. :D

[HerdBot]

1. Travel teams - Parents party on the bus and in hotels. Kids develop an early attitude about their position in life...and how to act. It all starts too early.

2. High School - Our recruits are stars in high school. It don't stink...in their minds.

3. College - It's everywhere...including the parking lot before games...and in the arena at an educational facility.

NCAA - Standardize the punishment. Take the heat off the coaches that want a disciplined program.

(UC Riverside recently had a case where a star pitcher sued the school for being suspended. He was a blue-chip MLB prospect. They settled for a nice sum. I'd bet that NDSU's attorneys know about this, and that they advise extreme caution.)

I don't think NDSU football players drink or get DUI's any more or less than the rest of the state. Their numbers mimic society in general. I would be willing to bet that if you go to many work places that have about 100 employees, 6 to 10 will have gotten a DUI. NDSU has a team of about 100 and how many have DUI's? (it's actually pretty low for a group of younger people)

I do agree that the NCAA should set some rules. That way it's fair for every school.

[56BISON73]

I don't think NDSU football players drink or get DUI's any more or less than the rest of the state. Their numbers mimic society in general. I would be willing to bet that if you go to many work places that have about 100 employees, 6 to 10 will have gotten a DUI. NDSU has a team of about 100 and how many have DUI's? (it's actually pretty low for a group of younger people)

I do agree that the NCAA should set some rules. That way it's fair for every school.

I agree with you that society at large isnt much different than what we are seing here.
As far as the NCAA getting involved the only thing that would solve would be to take onus off of the university and the coaches because they just fall back on hey its NCAA rules. But to be truthful I dont want the NCAA involved. They create more problems than they are worth. IMO.

[WYOBISONMAN]

1. Travel teams - Parents party on the bus and in hotels. Kids develop an early attitude about their position in life...and how to act. It all starts too early.

2. High School - Our recruits are stars in high school. It don't stink...in their minds.

3. College - Drinking everywhere...including the parking lot before games...and in the arena at an educational facility.

NCAA - Standardize the punishment. Take the heat off the coaches that want a disciplined program.

(UC Riverside recently had a case where a star pitcher sued the school for being suspended. He was a blue-chip MLB prospect. They settled for a nice sum. I'd bet that NDSU's attorneys know about this, and that they advise extreme caution.)

Bull......it is up to the players that make the choices. We are all free to choose and some people make BAD choices. To try and blame everything, our culture, and our society but not the player for making a poor choice is folly. IMHO.

[CaBisonFan]

Bull......it is up to the players that make the choices. We are all free to choose and some people make BAD choices. To try and blame everything, our culture, and our society but not the player for making a poor choice is folly. IMHO.

Knew this would come up...but I ask you...doesn't this exist?

I'm totally in favor of strict rules and having them carried out...as I know you are. At this point...it is certainly their decision to make.

[CaBisonFan]

I don't think NDSU football players drink or get DUI's any more or less than the rest of the state. Their numbers mimic society in general. I would be willing to bet that if you go to many work places that have about 100 employees, 6 to 10 will have gotten a DUI. NDSU has a team of about 100 and how many have DUI's? (it's actually pretty low for a group of younger people)

I do agree that the NCAA should set some rules. That way it's fair for every school.

I did some research on DUI stats in the country. Tried to get North Dakota's but couldn't find it. The MADD website claims that 4% of drunk drivers are actually caught.

I could have written things better. It's in the whole culture. You're absolutely correct.

[WYOBISONMAN]

Knew this would come up...but I ask you...doesn't this exist?

I'm totally in favor of strict rules and having them carried out...as I know you are. At this point...it is certainly their decision to make.

There are external influences everywhere, but we can't fall into the trap of allowing that to absolve individuals from the choices they make.

[UTH]

Bull......it is up to the players that make the choices. We are all free to choose and some people make BAD choices. To try and blame everything, our culture, and our society but not the player for making a poor choice is folly. IMHO.


I agree. Any underlying 'reason' = 'excuse' to the guilty mind.*







*no, not you, CAB. those who do these things:hide:

[CaBisonFan]

There are external influences everywhere, but we can't fall into the trap of allowing that to absolve individuals from the choices they make.

I completely agree about making choices...by everyone...not just the players. We both agree that it is a VERY serious thing. It is probably worse here than in North Dakota...among other problems. I just happen to see an irony in the bigger picture. I'm not rationalizing anything on behalf of the players. But they 'do' function within a culture that is filled with alcohol and drugs. We expect 18-22 year olds to act differently than others. We recruit aggressive young men to play a pretty violent sport. They're under the spotlight...but some don't know how to handle it.

MADD's website claims that 4% of all drunk drivers are stopped and arrested. If this estimate is even close, well...it would appear that we have a problem. As you wrote a while back...what if one of these guys kills someone...as in someone's daughter or son. Damned serious. I know that you agree. In CA that would likely come up as a murder charge. Haven't had that one happen yet.

I see an irony in surrounding a stadium with alcohol and selling it inside, while we watch players that we hold to a higher standard. And after the game, I could imagine that there would be plenty of people driving with an alcohol content higher than the limit. Do I think that players should be punished? Absolutely!

It's the irony. I wonder if the police are instructed to take it a little easy while people drive away from large athletic events. If they really wanted to...they could set up a huge sobriety check and have dozens...or hundreds.

[unbison]

I don't think NDSU football players drink or get DUI's any more or less than the rest of the state. Their numbers mimic society in general. I would be willing to bet that if you go to many work places that have about 100 employees, 6 to 10 will have gotten a DUI. NDSU has a team of about 100 and how many have DUI's? (it's actually pretty low for a group of younger people)

I do agree that the NCAA should set some rules. That way it's fair for every school.
That is not the point..... when they sign up to play ball they sign up to be public figures or public employees......And I would guess that it is not 6 per 100 in the north dakota state house of rep. or senators that get a dui annually

[Grizzled]

That is not the point..... when they sign up to play ball they sign up to be public figures or public employees......And I would guess that it is not 6 per 100 in the north dakota state house of rep. or senators that get a dui annually

++++
You beat me to it unbison. This is exactly what these guys have to get through their heads, just cause everyone else is doing doesn't mean its ok. They have to hold themselves to higher standards than the general public. If the six percent of my guys at work get a DUI in a 6 month span they are not all going to be the headline on the news, frontpage on the sports, and discussed for 20 pages on a message board. These guys have to take more pride in what they are playing for and understand that the program is bigger than themselves.

[RedRiver]

That is not the point..... when they sign up to play ball they sign up to be public figures or public employees......And I would guess that it is not 6 per 100 in the north dakota state house of rep. or senators that get a dui annually

You don't make sense. Comparing college students to legislators. College students will have more DUIs than older adults because of the maturing process. Age differences, experience defferences, real life experiences, etc.

[Grizzled]

You don't make sense. Comparing college students to legislators. College students will have more DUIs than older adults because of the maturing process. Age differences, experience defferences, real life experiences, etc.

He's just using the example to talk about the expectations placed on the individuals due to the situations they are in. I think we have a problem on this team if its to much to ask of the players we recruit to come to school, get a scholorship, stay elgible, and put the program first and keep your nose clean for five years. That in my mind is not to much to ask. What do they get in return, they get free school while playing in one of the nicest stadiums in the area in front of the best fans in the area. They get to play for a program that expects to win a national championship every year and can honestly say most years that they have a shot to do just that. How many places can honestly say that? Not to many. It really seems like a no brainer to me but if the aren't mature enough to handle that than Coach Bohl better look at who he is recruiting.

[RedRiver]

The bottom line is that they are still 18 year old college students. How can Coach Bohl know who is going to get in trouble as a Bison player when he is recruiting high school kids? You made my point, college students are still young and don't have the life experiences, and a FEW may end up making mistakes. If Coach Bohl could forecast who that may be he sure wouldn't be in the coaching business!!

[Grizzled]

The bottom line is that they are still 18 year old college students. How can Coach Bohl know who is going to get in trouble as a Bison player when he is recruiting high school kids? You made my point, college students are still young and don't have the life experiences, and a FEW may end up making mistakes. If Coach Bohl could forecast who that may be he sure wouldn't be in the coaching business!!

So how many guys on the team would you say have to "experience" a DUI or drug arrest before it is maybe finally seen as something that shouldn't be done? I didn't realize that there was a certain age that a person had to be in order to be able to have responsibility placed on their shoulders and be expected to be able to handle it. Apparently ages 18-23 falls in your age range where a person can do whatever as they are gaining life experience without responsibiltiy.

[bisonmike2]

I did some research on DUI stats in the country. Tried to get North Dakota's but couldn't find it. The MADD website claims that 4% of drunk drivers are actually caught.

I could have written things better. It's in the whole culture. You're absolutely correct.

I wouldn't necessarily believe everything that MADD puts out. They are the classic example of a good idea gone apeshiate crazy. If it were up to them alcohol would be banned, every car would have a breathalyzer starting device and there would be a check point on every road every 5 miles. Drinking and driving is bad, but they go way over the top with it, to the point that anything they say loses it's significance.

[80ALUM]

The fact that the Fargo Dome does not serve alcohol inside probably helps alleviate the DUIs after the game. Game time allows fans to metabolize the alcohol they consumed prior to kickoff.

Not sure if police could legally set up a roadcheck right outside a stadium. Seems like that could constitute entrapment. There are alot of rules to setting up a roadcheck such as providing a turn around point,etc.

[UTH]

The fact that the Fargo Dome does not serve alcohol inside probably helps alleviate the DUIs after the game. Game time allows fans to metabolize the alcohol they consumed prior to kickoff.

Not sure if police could legally set up a roadcheck right outside a stadium. Seems like that could constitute entrapment. There are alot of rules to setting up a roadcheck such as providing a turn around point,etc.


In Bismarck, if you turn around when you see a DUI checkpoint, YOU WILL BE PULLED OVER.

But I do agree with the first paragraph - that's a good thing.

[80ALUM]

In Bismarck, if you turn around when you see a DUI checkpoint, YOU WILL BE PULLED OVER.

But I do agree with the first paragraph - that's a good thing.

What I meant was the check point has to be set up in a place where the driver has an option of driving through or turning around before he gets to it. A few years back a driver challenged the way the check point was set up in a lawsuit and won. The check point cannot funnel drivers into it.

[bisonmike2]

The fact that the Fargo Dome does not serve alcohol inside probably helps alleviate the DUIs after the game. Game time allows those fans who don't illegally bring in their own booze to metabolize the alcohol they consumed prior to kickoff.

Not sure if police could legally set up a roadcheck right outside a stadium. Seems like that could constitute entrapment. There are alot of rules to setting up a roadcheck such as providing a turn around point,etc.

fixed that for you. If I'm going to a game with old college buddies, drinking and driving is never an issue with us because we've always arranged to have somebody pick us up. Getting drunk before, during and after football games should never be an issue as long as you take 5 minutes to make plans for getting a ride to and from.

[UTH]

What I meant was the check point has to be set up in a place where the driver has an option of driving through or turning around before he gets to it. A few years back a driver challenged the way the check point was set up in a lawsuit and won. The check point cannot funnel drivers into it.


A few years back, meaning 2007? [linky (http://www.ndcourts.com/court/opinions/20070013.htm)]*

I understand if you don't want to read the whole thing. Just go to the very end and read the second-to-last paragraph...


"[W]e hold law enforcement checkpoints need not, as a matter of law,
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff311/indio_rojas/coppoliceclassiscancelledcarcrashac.jpg
provide motorists with a way to avoid them."


I say again, in Bismarck, YOU WILL BE PULLED OVER.**


*Oral Arguments can be found here (http://www.ndcourts.com/Broadcast/20070013.rm)
**Turn around at your own risk.:hide:

[CaBisonFan]

I wouldn't necessarily believe everything that MADD puts out.

I took it with a rather large grain of salt...knowing the organization. Good discussion going on.

[JacksFan06]

Surprised to see the amount of people who are willing to pass these off as just "boys will be boys".

An instance or two a season happens, but to have this many instances in a 6 month time frame would either mean to me that the Fargo cops are really tough or the NDSU players are really good partiers.

Coach Bohl seems to have stepped up and means business, but these players need leadership from the upper classmen to set a good example and lead.

[bisonmike2]

Surprised to see the amount of people who are willing to pass these off as just "boys will be boys".

An instance or two a season happens, but to have this many instances in a 6 month time frame would either mean to me that the Fargo cops are really tough or the NDSU players are really good partiers.

Coach Bohl seems to have stepped up and means business, but these players need leadership from the upper classmen to set a good example and lead.

I think it's obvious we are really good partiers. We went 6-5 last year with the entire team drunk during every game. True story!

[stevdock]

I think it's obvious we are really good partiers. We went 6-5 last year with the entire team drunk during every game. True story!

And don't forget whatever else was provided at those parties. Drinking hasn't been the only issue.