Centenary leaving the league

[NDSUstudent]

Apparently Centenary's love affair with The Summit league, formerly known as the Mid-Con, is over.


Summit officials said on Tuesday that they received paperwork from outgoing Centenary President Ken Schwab in May notifying the league it will leave in 2011. Unless a significant upfront payment is made, schools must give two years notice to leave the league.

Although Schwab couldn't be reached for comment on Tuesday, Centenary interim president Michael Easton confirmed the move and said the decision was permanent.

"The main reasons were financial and to find a conference more geographically appropriate," Easton said.

http://www.shreveporttimes.com/article/20090708/SPORTS02/907080313/1026/SPORTS02

[Bison bison]

Holey schmoley.

Some body do the math on core members/continuity quick....

[Tatanka]

No need to panic. This is all unfolding as Douple has foreseen it...

http://static.flickr.com/56/211215190_97e7062701.jpg

[Greenie]

"We are a league that is moving forward with a bright future," Douple said. "We have nine strong members and a tenth member (South Dakota) joining our league for the 2011-12 season."

My bet is that North Dakota joins in 2011-2012 to make 11 teams. And that Denver joins to be the 12th team.


Denver in Search of a New Conference
http://media.www.duclarion.com/media...-3373576.shtml

Sun Belt Raises Academic and Athletic Expectations
http://www.sunbeltsports.org/ViewArt...ATCLID=1151032

Sun Belt Membership Standards
1. Member institutions are expected to sponsor a minimum of fifteen (15) sports in which the conference offers a championship. There shall be a five-year (2012-2013) grace period for University of New Orleans and University of Denver to reach this standard.

Denver only sponsors 10 sports in the Sun Belt (15 is the requirement)

[Golden Eagle]

I wouldn't be that upset with adding UND if we could get Denver.

[Bison bison]

bs aside, UND would be a great addition to the league, as would Denver.


If Denver joined - the league name would be totally f'n ridiculous.

[Hammersmith]

This came up on the ORU board in their "Centenary Leaving" thread, but we're going to have to find a core member looking for a baseball home if we want to keep our baseball autobid. The loss of Centenary will drop us to only 5 schools in the Summit that both play baseball and are also core members. Since we need 6 to keep the autobid, we're in trouble. We may have to poach that new baseball conference that was formed a year or so ago and grab a couple affiliate members(UTPA maybe). Does anyone remember the name of that conference?

[huckleberry]

Ten is perfect. bye cent!

[Mr. Burgundy]

UND would not win a game in the Summit for two years. They are that bad right now...and the incoming recruits are just as bad.

[dmksioux]

UND would not win a game in the Summit for two years. They are that bad right now...and the incoming recruits are just as bad.

Just out of curiosity...which sport are you talking about? I'm sure it's not men's basketball, because as bad as we are right now...we did beat UMKC at their place last year.

[Bison bison]

This came up on the ORU board in their "Centenary Leaving" thread, but we're going to have to find a core member looking for a baseball home if we want to keep our baseball autobid. The loss of Centenary will drop us to only 5 schools in the Summit that both play baseball and are also core members. Since we need 6 to keep the autobid, we're in trouble. We may have to poach that new baseball conference that was formed a year or so ago and grab a couple affiliate members(UTPA maybe). Does anyone remember the name of that conference?

Is that really a problem?

Add affiliate members. UTPA would likely jump at the chance (thinking it might lead to a permanent home).

[Hammersmith]

Is that really a problem?

Add affiliate members. UTPA would likely jump at the chance (thinking it might lead to a permanent home).

Not an insurmountable problem, but Douple will have to act quickly. Even with the two-year grace period, the clock is now ticking. I think Douple will have less than a year to get it done. I agree that UTPA would be high on the list, but I think there are other baseball schools in the Midwest/Rocky Mountain states that don't have a conference home for baseball(UNC is one, but they wouldn't help us). That's why I asked about that psudo-conference that was formed a year or so ago.

[roadwarrior]

The clock is ticking before Centenary leaves?

[Hammersmith]

The clock is ticking before Centenary leaves?

Yes, because we have to have a baseball affiliate ready to go before Centenary leaves. The sixth baseball school is subject to a two-year continuity of membership requirement. Since there is only a two-year grace period, the new school must begin Summit play no later than the first year following Centenary's departure(2011-12). That basically gives Douple two years to find a replacement and get them to commit. That's the ticking clock. If Douple waits until Centenary leaves, it will be too late. Realistically, it would be better for the new school to start play in 2010-11, so that only gives Douple a single year to find someone.

[SamsRams]

Yes, because we have to have a baseball affiliate ready to go before Centenary leaves. The sixth baseball school is subject to a two-year continuity of membership requirement. Since there is only a two-year grace period, the new school must begin Summit play no later than the first year following Centenary's departure(2011-12). That basically gives Douple two years to find a replacement and get them to commit. That's the ticking clock. If Douple waits until Centenary leaves, it will be too late. Realistically, it would be better for the new school to start play in 2010-11, so that only gives Douple a single year to find someone.

I love that you know this hammersmith and that you bring it up. I agree Douple has to consider it a top priority and look forward to see what he does about it.

[TheDoctor]

Just out of curiosity...which sport are you talking about? I'm sure it's not men's basketball, because as bad as we are right now...we did beat UMKC at their place last year.

Focus on the UMKC win and NOT on the multiple buzzer beaters you needed to not get beat by several NAIA schools last year. Thank god the Jamestown game was cancelled. Buzzer beater against Valley City, another one vs. Dickinson, and OT against Mary. Oh wait...are they still NAIA??? I guess they are D2 with you now. Southwest Minnesota State? Moorhead State played them tougher 3 days after you got beat by them. I do hope we play you guys this year. ;)

[dmksioux]

Focus on the UMKC win and NOT on the multiple buzzer beaters you needed to not get beat by several NAIA schools last year. Thank god the Jamestown game was cancelled. Buzzer beater against Valley City, another one vs. Dickinson, and OT against Mary. Oh wait...are they still NAIA??? I guess they are D2 with you now. Southwest Minnesota State? Moorhead State played them tougher 3 days after you got beat by them. I do hope we play you guys this year. ;)

I never claimed we had/have a good team. The men's program has been down for the past decade or so. Hopefully Jones can turn it around. I don't follow the program too closely and I'm not real excited about the "Princeton" style offense he's trying to install. Hopefully picking up some "good" wins and gaining conference affiliation will turn it around. I hope we do play NDSU as well...it will provide a measuring stick as to where we are at and where we need to get to...kind of like your women's team ;)

[tony]

Just wondering if this is accurate:

2007-08 Mid-Con becomes Summit, NDSU; IUPFW join the league
2008-09 NDSU and SDSU's first year of full DI, starting clock on core membership
2010-11 Centenary leaves league at end of year
2011-12 IUPFW counts as a core member; USD joins the league
2011-14 The Dead Zone: the Summit BB autobid is lost if another core member leaves before 2014 (would be to 2015 except for the one-year grace period)
2015-16: NDSU and SDSU become core members at the end of this year, Summit up to a much safer nine core members
2021-22: Sometime around here, USD counts as a core member, first team that makes the NCAA is women's roller ball.

Looks like Centenary leaving in 2011 will leave the Summit short a team but the grace period will save the autobid (that's probably why Centenary is not leaving right away).
If the Summit adds a program that has been full DI for 8 years that will help because they don't have to have to satisfy the "five years in the league" rule.
member conference must include seven core institutions that satisfy continuity of membership to be considered for automatic qualification in men's basketball. For the purposes of this legislation, core refers to an institution that has been an active member of Division I the eight preceding years. Further, the continuity-of-membership requirement shall be met only if a minimum of six core institutions have conducted conference competition together in Division I the preceding five years in men's basketball. There shall be no exception to the five-year waiting period.

[Greenie]

I never claimed we had/have a good team. The men's program has been down for the past decade or so. Hopefully Jones can turn it around. I don't follow the program too closely and I'm not real excited about the "Princeton" style offense he's trying to install. Hopefully picking up some "good" wins and gaining conference affiliation will turn it around. I hope we do play NDSU as well...it will provide a measuring stick as to where we are at and where we need to get to...kind of like your women's team ;)

I wouldn't worry about NDSU's women's team with the new coaching staff. The team will be much better in DeHoff's hands. I can't say the same for the Brian Jones.

[roadwarrior]

My prediction for travelling partners starting in 2011:

NDSU/SDSU

USD/UMKC

OU/IPFW

IUPUI/WIU

ORU/SUU

[Greenie]

The core membership rule is another reason why Denver makes sense to me. Too bad they don't have Baseball.

Denver's men's sports
basketball
golf
soccer
swimming/diving
tennis
hockey - not summit
lacrosse - not summit
skiing - not summit

Denver's women's sports
basketball
volleyball
golf
swimming/diving
tennis
soccer
lacrosse - not summit
skiing - not summit
gymnastics - not summit

Summit West
NDSU - UND
SDSU - USD
Denver - Southern Utah

Summit East
Oral Roberts - UMKC
IUPUI - Western Illinois
IPFW - Oakland

[Hammersmith]

Just wondering if this is accurate:

2007-08 Mid-Con becomes Summit, NDSU; IUPFW join the league
2008-09 NDSU and SDSU's first year of full DI, starting clock on core membership
2010-11 Centenary leaves league at end of year
2011-12 IUPFW counts as a core member; USD joins the league
2011-14 The Dead Zone: the Summit BB autobid is lost if another core member leaves before 2014 (would be to 2015 except for the one-year grace period)
2015-16: NDSU and SDSU become core members at the end of this year, Summit up to a much safer nine core members
2021-22: Sometime around here, USD counts as a core member, first team that makes the NCAA is women's roller ball.

Looks like Centenary leaving in 2011 will leave the Summit short a team but the grace period will save the autobid (that's probably why Centenary is not leaving right away).
If the Summit adds a program that has been full DI for 8 years that will help because they don't have to have to satisfy the "five years in the league" rule.

First, IPFW is already a core institution. They got their reclassifying paperwork in before the deadline, so they were grandfathered in and became a core institution the moment they became an active member. Because of that, the Summit will never drop below the minimum number of schools for the MBB autobid. Even if a second core institution leaves before 2014, adding any new core institution(say Chicago State) will automatically get us above the minimum again. (and it's a two-year grace period, not one-year)

Here's the corrected timeline with core institutions and continuity counters in parentheses(min. needed is 7/6):

2007-08: NDSU, SDSU & IPFW join (8/6)
2008-09: Cent counts for continuity (8/7)
2011-12: Cent leaves, USD joins (7/6)
2012-13: IPFW counts for continuity (7/7)
2016-17: NDSU & SDSU become core inst. (9/7 or 9/9*)
2020-21: USD becomes a core inst. (10/7 or 10/10*)

*most likely

It's my belief that NDSU & SDSU will count for both the core inst. and continuity requirements starting in 2016-17, but some have suggested that the continuity clock won't start until we become core. That would mean we would count for continuity until 2021-22. I don't think that's the case, but we're in new territory and there are no precedents(at least until UNC/UCD get there in 2015-16).

[NDSU1980]

Since they added USD, there is no real reason to worry about Cent leaving. It still leaves us with an even number. I see no reason what so ever to add some school in the frozen north just to add members.

[UTH]

Since they added USD, there is no real reason to worry about Cent leaving. It still leaves us with an even number. I no reason what so ever to add some school in the frozen north just to add members.


Word up, brother.

[Golden Eagle]

Centenary goes D3 (http://www.gocentenary.com/ViewArticle.dbml?&ATCLID=204763714&DB_OEM_ID=17900).

[Bison bison]

Good Luck, Ladies and Gents!

[BearsCountry]

UMKC is adding baseball in 2011-12. That keeps getting overlooked.

[IzzyFlexion]

I was going to post a smart alec comment about proposing that Centenary donate their arena to IUPUI but noticed that it's just about as small!:D

[roadwarrior]

If Centenary's teams have had a hard time competing in the Summit in the past, those last two seasons are going to be real brutal!

[Golden Eagle]

UMKC is adding baseball in 2011-12. That keeps getting overlooked.

Do you have a source for this? I couldn't find anything.

[tony]

Do you have a source for this? I couldn't find anything.

Back in 2007, they said that, tentatively, they were going to add baseball in 2012. Their master plan also calls for a baseball field "suitable for league play" by 2013. Nothing I could find made it sound like it's progressed from the planning stage.

I'm kind of curious, Golden Eagle, what do you think of Centenary leaving?

[BlueLiner]

Great West is the name of that conference that was formed from all the schools moving to D1. Whether the Summitt can poach one of those schools, for baseball, remains to be seen.

Denver-The Sun Belt has issued nothing on what would happen if Denver and New Orleans don't add sports to meet SBC requirements.

I think the SL needs to worry about other schools following in the steps of Cent. and dropping down. UMKC seems like a prime candidate.

Yes, UMKC did plan to field a baseball team. But the downturn in the economy lead to the scrapping of that idea.

[BearsCountry]

Great West is the name of that conference that was formed from all the schools moving to D1. Whether the Summitt can poach one of those schools, for baseball, remains to be seen.

Denver-The Sun Belt has issued nothing on what would happen if Denver and New Orleans don't add sports to meet SBC requirements.

I think the SL needs to worry about other schools following in the steps of Cent. and dropping down. UMKC seems like a prime candidate.

Yes, UMKC did plan to field a baseball team. But the downturn in the economy lead to the scrapping of that idea.

UMKC isnt dropping down.

[BearsCountry]

Also if another baseball only member is needed I would look at Dallas Baptist. Their only D1 sport is baseball, needs a home, and its real easy to fly into DFW.

[Hammersmith]

Also if another baseball only member is needed I would look at Dallas Baptist. Their only D1 sport is baseball, needs a home, and its real easy to fly into DFW.

The problem is that I'm 99% certain that DBU wouldn't help us retain the autobid. To help with the autobid, a school has to be a core member of DI. Since HBU is really a DII member, it doesn't matter how many years they've been playing DI baseball, they still don't get core member status. (core status is attached to the school, not the individual sport)

[NDSUstudent]

I'm pretty sure they count, otherwise there would be a few hockey leagues that would have some issues.

[Hammersmith]

I'm pretty sure they count, otherwise there would be a few hockey leagues that would have some issues.

There are two* sets of autobid rules. Sports sponsored by less than 50% of the Division I membership don't need core members. Hockey and FCS football are among those sports. Those sports played by more than 50% of the DI membership are held to a stricter standard. Baseball, volleyball, and basketball are among the sports that need core members to maintain the autobid.

*technically three with MBB

[BlueLiner]

Do you have a source for this? I couldn't find anything.

This is a story, from 07, about UMKC adding baseball.

The story does say UMKC will add women's soccer in 09 and they have kept that promise.

http://www.cstv.com/sports/c-rifle/stories/041807aaa.html

[Greenie]

I know they're not in our conference, but the University of New Orleans is likely leaving the Sun Belt and moving to DIII. This will be good for Centenary.
http://www.ncaa.org/wps/ncaa?key=/ncaa/ncaa/ncaa+news/ncaa+news+online/2009/division+i/new+orleans+looks+to+reclassify_11_12_09_ncaa_news

That leaves only 2 schools without football in the Sun Belt -- Arkansas-Little Rock and Denver. I would think there will be some schools moving around to different conferences after the NCAA finalizes their requirements for DI schools. I would be surprised if Denver stays put.

[lakesbison]

centenary woman scored 19 points in a game last week. time to leave.

[Bison bison]

I know they're not in our conference, but the University of New Orleans is likely leaving the Sun Belt and moving to DIII. This will be good for Centenary.
http://www.ncaa.org/wps/ncaa?key=/ncaa/ncaa/ncaa+news/ncaa+news+online/2009/division+i/new+orleans+looks+to+reclassify_11_12_09_ncaa_news

That leaves only 2 schools without football in the Sun Belt -- Arkansas-Little Rock and Denver. I would think there will be some schools moving around to different conferences after the NCAA finalizes their requirements for DI schools. I would be surprised if Denver stays put.

Denver's on its way out. The Sunbelt offer some sports the conference actually offers, as opposed to skiing and something called hockey. I think they have a 2012 deadline.

Denver would be a good Summit League add (there are actually mountains in Colorado).

[TheDoctor]

Denver would be a good Summit League add (there are actually mountains in Colorado).

I agree. BTW, anyone know how travel partners are going to work with Centenary leaving and USD coming in? I assume USD and ORU will not become travel partners. I hope as the odd man out we don't end up with ORU. ;)

[NDSUstudent]

I hope SUU is our travel partner, that trip becomes a lot easier when all you have to do is travel there and back home.

[Bison bison]

and when others have to travel from cedar city to fargo and then play...

[roadwarrior]

I agree. BTW, anyone know how travel partners are going to work with Centenary leaving and USD coming in?

This is my guess:

NDSU/SDSU
Oakland/IPFW
IUPUI/WIU
USD/UMKC
SUU/ORU

[TheDoctor]

This is my guess:

NDSU/SDSU
Oakland/IPFW
IUPUI/WIU
USD/UMKC
SUU/ORU

Makes sense to me Road! ;)

[Bison bison]

Let's have fun with this and add UND (sans Sioux) and Denver

NDSU/UND
SDSU/USD
Denver/SUU
Oakland/IPFW
IUPUI/WIU
UMKC/ORU

Break it into an East and West

West:
NDSU/UND
SDSU/USD
Denver/SUU

East:
Oakland/IPFW
IUPUI/WIU
UMKC/ORU

Have each team play an division opponent twice and an out-division opponent once. Gives a nice sixteen games. Hell you could have cross-divisional weeks and get all out-of-division games done in one trip. (ie ndsu play at oakland, iupui, and ipfw on a thursday, saturday, monday). this is almost like the crazy WAC quadrant system!

West1: Denver/Fargo/Cedar City (Fargo is much easier to get to than those other Dakota towns)
West 2: Grand Forks/Brookings/Vermillion

East 1: Oakland, IUPUI, IPFW
East 2: ORU, UMKC, WIU