Zone or no zone

[unbison]

I think that next year would be great to see a little zone defense just for a change of pace!!!! And so our man #23 can relax from time to time on D

[Herd]

Like last year when Southern Utah is running their offense and cannot be stopped?? Yes, we need to have a zone defense in the arsenal to change things up occaisionally and to combat an opponents rhythm. Against S.Utah at home last year, the situation begged for moving out of the man denfense into a zone, if only for a series or two take back the momentum.

[ndsubison1]

every team should have some zone scheme, you obviousy dont have to use it all the time but when then the time does call for it to fall back on

[Trim]

Rest on offense, not on defense! ;)

[DjKyRo]

Indeedy - a big difference between this and last year is that we've got four/five solid players coming in, and they're all getting used to a new playing scheme and four of them at an entirely new level. Working a zone into the training regimen sounds like a good idea, and like you guys said - it's another tool to break out that will hopefully give us an edge when we need it.

[TheDoctor]

I know I use Duke in EVERY :D reference to any other program, but Coach K (who is obviously a HUGE man-to-man guy) will go to and has used a zone when it is necessary. Not very often, but unlike our boys, they have practiced it some and he feels comfortable going to it when in dire straits. I vote throw it in for when it is necessary. ;)

[CaBisonFan]

I know I use Duke in EVERY :D reference to any other program, but Coach K (who is obviously a HUGE man-to-man guy) will go to and has used a zone when it is necessary. Not very often, but unlike our boys, they have practiced it some and he feels comfortable going to it when in dire straits. I vote throw it in for when it is necessary. ;)

Geez...we actually agree on something. I think that Saul did a fabulous job this past year...but I think that a few switches in the Kansas game could have changed the flow of the game. (I didn't say the outcome...did I?) Hindsight...I know.

[NDSUstudent]

Work it in but the team needs to focus on becoming great in the man defense first.

[bisonpride]

I posted the following on Feb 19th while I was getting blown up for being critical of Sauls treatment of Zo and his lack of using a zone defense ever was due to his lack of experience as a head coach.... I couldn't hold out any longer so here it is....From the topic "Start Zo Tonight".




To end my contribution on this subject i will leave you with this little nugget. Ben Woodside was recently asked on Dan Hammers radio show if the idea of going to a zone against Southern Utah was considered considering how well things were going for them against the man to change the look. Ben's answer "We haven't really practiced a zone at all to even use that efffectively in a game". How many times have you heard Billy Packer comment during the NCAA tournament about a change in defense and how it can alter the tempo and success of an offense just by giving them a different look. Dont you think that might have come in handy when the scored on i think there last 7 possessions. That is called not having your team prepared for everything that is thrown at them which is the job of the head coach. If we get a matchup in the NCAAs that is not favorable for us to stay in a man to man, what are we going to do? Just stay in a man and continue to get exploited again and again in the same way. It is that type of experience as a head coach that we will be severely lacking come tournament time. Everyone will have seen us twice already and will have a pretty good idea what matchups they can take advantage of. Hopefully we can exploit the ones in our favor better then they can.

[Bison bison]

Geez...we actually agree on something. I think that Saul did a fabulous job this past year...but I think that a few switches in the Kansas game could have changed the flow of the game. (I didn't say the outcome...did I?) Hindsight...I know.

other than a flagrant foul to get Cole Aldrich out of the game there was nothing NDSU could do.

[TheDoctor]

other than a flagrant foul to get Cole Aldrich out of the game there was nothing NDSU could do.

True..in fact, not switching up didn't force their hand into going to him even more. There were games earlier in the year though, where we needed to be in a zone and we still won some, but we also lost some. ;)

[CaBisonFan]

other than a flagrant foul to get Cole Aldrich out of the game there was nothing NDSU could do.

There were times when we 'fronted' him, but didn't 'backside' him. The path to the basket was clear. We didn't have the horses to deal with him...that's for sure. Just an observation.

[Superfan]

Go back and watch the Baylor upset over Kansas in the Big 12 Tournament and see what defense they played. Granted Kansas was not shooting well but Baylor's 2-3 zone worked well enough to get them the win. EVERY team should have some kind of alternative defense to go to when things aren't going well. Often times it's to throw a hot team on a run off pace then you go back to your man when things calm down. I really like Saul and I think he's a good coach...but he's not a great coach. Not yet anyways. I saw considerable improvement in coaching from the previous year and I think he will still be able to do great things for the program in years to come. Right now I just think he's still a little green.

[DjKyRo]

I've said it once and I'll say it again - I don't blame Saul for losing to Kansas. You could hardly blame him for reverting to a defense our team was more or less entirely unfamiliar with, or at least uncomfortable with. Would it have made a difference? Perhaps, but that difference could just as easily have been negative versus positive.

That said - the defense is a must considering the recruits we have coming in, in Bjorklund and Aaberg. These two guys are going to be denying shots for all eternity, and using a zone to eat up the lane is going to have these guys averaging about 30 combined rebounds and 15 blocks each per game*. That, and I am banking on a Jordan Aaberg backboard-shatter-dunk. Count on it.


* - numbers may be exaggerated, I'll let you know after Bjork's freshman season.

[ndsubison1]

sorry but the way Kansas was shooting vs. us, mostly Collins, a 2-3 zone would've been worse off... a 2-3 zone is vulnerable to 3 point shooting... nothing we could've done to stop both Collins and Aldrich

[unbison]

the question i asked was not becuz we lost to kansas..... we needed 7 defenders to stop them..... so i guess we could have ran a 3-1-3

[Superfan]

I am in no way trying to blame Saul for the Kansas loss and I agree that a 2-3 against kansas probably wouldn't have been the answer. What I am saying is that it seems rediculous to me that it wasn't even an option as it was never practiced.

It's one thing if everyone on the team played defense like Nelson or AP (best on the ball defender NDSU has seen in a long time...but saw very limited playing time this year) but they didn't. Let's face it, Woody's defense is the one thing that's really keeping him from being the best player at his NBA workouts. Look at what some of the reports have been. He has trouble staying in front of defenders. Who else on the team can you say was an excellent defender? Winks was a decent defender and a great rebounder as was Morman. Zo could block shots but jumped out of the jym everytime someone pump faked. The jury's still out for me on Flowers. He showed glimpses of good defense. Dido with Sam. If you're going to soley rely on man to man defense you need to have excellent defenders. They got away with it this year because they could out shoot most teams. But when shooting goes cold and the opponent goes on a run it's my opinion that giving them a different look on defense can help throw them off pace.

All that said let me say I'm not trying to be a Negative Nancy. I think Saul is a good coach but it seems to me he was just a little overconfident in the man to man defense this year.

[TheDoctor]

or AP (best on the ball defender NDSU has seen in a long time...but saw very limited playing time this year) but they didn't.

:rofl: Maybe because he couldn't throw a ball into the ocean if he needed too. :rofl: :rofl: ;)

[Superfan]

:rofl: Maybe because he couldn't throw a ball into the ocean if he needed too. :rofl: :rofl: ;)

My understanding is not that he can't shoot but that he just likes to shoot too much. It sounds to me like he has a habbit of taking the ill-advised shot.

I don't think AP should get to play based soley on his defense if he's not doing what is asked of him on the offensive side of the ball - or trying to do too much in his case - but I love watching him play defense. But then again I'm a "defense wins championships, offense pleases the crowd" kind of person.

[DjKyRo]

Keep in mind that this was Saul's first year - he couldn't exactly bring four 5th-year seniors into an entirely new defensive strategy like that. He worked with what he had, and made enough magic to get us on the map. That in mind, now's the time to work on the rest of whatever he's got stashed up his sleeve.

[NDSUstudent]

I am in no way trying to blame Saul for the Kansas loss and I agree that a 2-3 against kansas probably wouldn't have been the answer. What I am saying is that it seems rediculous to me that it wasn't even an option as it was never practiced.

It's one thing if everyone on the team played defense like Nelson or AP (best on the ball defender NDSU has seen in a long time...but saw very limited playing time this year) but they didn't. Let's face it, Woody's defense is the one thing that's really keeping him from being the best player at his NBA workouts. Look at what some of the reports have been. He has trouble staying in front of defenders. Who else on the team can you say was an excellent defender? Winks was a decent defender and a great rebounder as was Morman. Zo could block shots but jumped out of the jym everytime someone pump faked. The jury's still out for me on Flowers. He showed glimpses of good defense. Dido with Sam. If you're going to soley rely on man to man defense you need to have excellent defenders. They got away with it this year because they could out shoot most teams. But when shooting goes cold and the opponent goes on a run it's my opinion that giving them a different look on defense can help throw them off pace.

All that said let me say I'm not trying to be a Negative Nancy. I think Saul is a good coach but it seems to me he was just a little overconfident in the man to man defense this year.

How could you talk about defense and not mention Tveidt? The guy is an excellent defender, definitely on par with Nelson.

As for AP, I have watched him for three years and he can't shoot period. Maybe that sounds harsh but it is the truth.

[NDSUstudent]

As for a zone, I think Saul worked on the man to man and stressed it because that is what he felt would lead the team to a conference title. The goal was to get to the big dance and you look back at a number of games last year and they were won by getting stops late in games.

There is no doubt Saul took over a great offensive team and under him they made big strides defensively.

[ndsubison1]

As for a zone, I think Saul worked on the man to man and stressed it because that is what he felt would lead the team to a conference title. The goal was to get to the big dance and you look back at a number of games last year and they were won by getting stops late in games.

There is no doubt Saul took over a great offensive team and under him they made big strides defensively.

I agree, defense is a reason why they made it to the dance

[HandoEX]

Keep in mind that this was Saul's first year - he couldn't exactly bring four 5th-year seniors into an entirely new defensive strategy like that. He worked with what he had, and made enough magic to get us on the map. That in mind, now's the time to work on the rest of whatever he's got stashed up his sleeve.

This past season wasn't Saul's first year :)