Can the UP Center be used for basketball?

[HerdBot]

Why not put a bid in for the Summit League tournament using the UP Center?

[roadwarrior]

The UP Center would absolutely suck for basketball compared to the SF Arena.

[HerdBot]

The UP Center would absolutely suck for basketball compared to the SF Arena.

why? it's great for hockey.

[roadwarrior]

The ice is 200' long. A basketball court is 94' long. That means any seats in the end zones are at least 50' from the court. Not even close to a decent basketball arena.

[HerdBot]

The ice is 200' long. A basketball court is 94' long. That means any seats in the end zones are at least 50' from the court. Not even close to a decent basketball arena.

can't they cover the extra space and throw bleachers on top of them?

[rdh701]

I think it might be a much better basketball venue that many believe. I was told during a tour that the sight lines were designed with a basketball configuration in mind. The rest of the facility is certainly up to par, once the parking, etc. is finished.

[WYOBISONMAN]

Why not just use the Fargodome if we were going to bid on it. That would be a much better configuration than the UPC.......

[Bisonguy]

I think it might be a much better basketball venue that many believe. I was told during a tour that the sight lines were designed with a basketball configuration in mind. The rest of the facility is certainly up to par, once the parking, etc. is finished.


Would the plywood benches and 2x4 handrails stay in place in the GA section??

[tcbison]

Why not just use the Fargodome if we were going to bid on it. That would be a much better configuration than the UPC.......

Because the Fargodome has been full and they won't even put in a bid for the Summit League tournament.

[tjbison]

Because the Fargodome has been full and they won't even put in a bid for the Summit League tournament.


YET!! After they see how SF does with it, they will in the future!!

[tcbison]

YET!! After they see how SF does with it, they will in the future!!

Check out the Bison media blog. It says this:

The Sioux Falls Arena is under contract to host the 2010 tournament. The league will review bids for the 2011 and 2012 tournaments in May and June and make a decision at the June 22 presidents' meeting.
Sioux Falls will bid again. Douple anticipates other bids from: The Palace near Detroit, the Quad Cities, Tulsa (where the previous four tournaments were held), Kansas City, Peoria and Fort Wayne. It doesn't appear the Fargodome will be making a bid.

How does everyone feel about this? Usually I don't express frustration on this board (there are plenty of others on this board that do that), but this does piss me off. Fargo(Fargodome) is not helping NDSU out at all and I think that is really a shame.

[silkamilkamonico]

I don't think that means they won't bid. It is a little perplexing why they aren't expected to bid. Maybe they are already viewing a conflict during that time period.

[NDSUstudent]

We can have it in 2013 and 2014. With USD and UND(if they change their name) likely in the conference the tournament is going to be wild and the Fargodome is the only place big enough to house all the madness.

[Hammersmith]

Check out the Bison media blog. It says this:

The Sioux Falls Arena is under contract to host the 2010 tournament. The league will review bids for the 2011 and 2012 tournaments in May and June and make a decision at the June 22 presidents' meeting.
Sioux Falls will bid again. Douple anticipates other bids from: The Palace near Detroit, the Quad Cities, Tulsa (where the previous four tournaments were held), Kansas City, Peoria and Fort Wayne. It doesn't appear the Fargodome will be making a bid.

How does everyone feel about this? Usually I don't express frustration on this board (there are plenty of others on this board that do that), but this does piss me off. Fargo(Fargodome) is not helping NDSU out at all and I think that is really a shame.

It's been posted before; the Fargodome wants to bid, but the Sportsmen's Show and the ND Class A tourney have booked the possible weekends(it's also why Fargo didn't bid for the current tourney). Fargo(and the FD) plan to bid on the 2013-14 tournaments.

[tjbison]

I stated this in another thread but can't find it.

I remember hearing Rob Sobolk (sp?) general manager of the FD and I believe the Sportsman show they have every year in March is already signed thru 2011 so that is conflicting with the Summit tourney, and hopefully the can go for 2012, I think that is right or am i thinking of something else. So basically its not that they won't bid its the fact they can't because of the schedule conflicts for events in the FD!

[zooropa]

I don't know how the gate is split, but so far the SF tourney has brought in about $250,000 in additional corporate sponsorships and roughly 10,000 additional tickets. The majority of which, I think, have been reserved (going by the way the Arena looked, and knowing that GA started halfway up the upper deck).

If you figure the Arena keeps half the gate (again, no idea what the actual split is), and the tickets were split between GA & reserved ($13.50), that's about $320,000 in additional revenue over last year.

Plus the WBB side had phenomenal support, providing the lion's share of increased attendance, which means, IMO, the Summit has to seriously consider awarding the tournament to a city that will draw WBB fans, and there's only two of those.... I don't know that MBB attendance can go much higher with the current conference alignment.......

Just my thoughts.....

[WYOBISONMAN]

If it is't going to be in Fargo......Keep it in Sioux Falls!

[AKBison]

If it is't going to be in Fargo......Keep it in Sioux Falls!

I'll give that the Sambini ++++++++++++

[Bison bison]

I don't know how the gate is split, but so far the SF tourney has brought in about $250,000 in additional corporate sponsorships and roughly 10,000 additional tickets. The majority of which, I think, have been reserved (going by the way the Arena looked, and knowing that GA started halfway up the upper deck).

If you figure the Arena keeps half the gate (again, no idea what the actual split is), and the tickets were split between GA & reserved ($13.50), that's about $320,000 in additional revenue over last year.

Plus the WBB side had phenomenal support, providing the lion's share of increased attendance, which means, IMO, the Summit has to seriously consider awarding the tournament to a city that will draw WBB fans, and there's only two of those.... I don't know that MBB attendance can go much higher with the current conference alignment.......

Just my thoughts.....

I think you're right on with the WBB. If money is the motive the tournament should never leave the Dakotas...

[zooropa]

I think you're right on with the WBB. If money is the motive the tournament should never leave the Dakotas...

And, IMO, there is a certain onus that should be placed on schools that may, over time, object to a Dakota-centric tournament rotation....

Basically, if IUPUI, Oakland, ORU, or whoever starts griping about the bidding process, etc., there's a simple solution:

GET FANS IN THE STANDS.

If you can't do that, then why on EARTH should you be awarded the tournament? So you can have your tiny contingent of home-crowd supporters cheering in an echoing empty gym?

IPFW averaged 600 fans per WBB game. 1400 went to their tournament game on Sunday.

[roadwarrior]

Oakland had the only sizeable showing of fans in Sioux Falls besides SDSU and NDSU.

[coldspot]

Oakland had the only sizeable showing of fans in Sioux Falls besides SDSU and NDSU.

im sure ORU would have as well but they checked out early.


on a side note and off topic, i cant wait until the baseball games against ORU.

[zooropa]

on a side note and off topic, i cant wait until the baseball games against ORU.

Glutton for punishment eh? :p

ORU is good. But Centenary has knocked off the #1 and #18 teams (Texas A&M and Arkansas) so far this season. Whodathunkit?

[roper1313]

Would the plywood benches and 2x4 handrails stay in place in the GA section??

Don't forget that those are in place for the HS fans. that way they can stand the whole game and not obstruct the sight lines of the fans in seats.

First I think if Fargo's going to host the Summit Tournament then have it in the Fargodome.

Since the original poster asked about the UP I'll give my opinion. IMO the UP Center is much better set up for hoops due to the GA section on the ends. I'm assuming for BB they would roll in some bleachers for the ends and having reserved seats higher it should allow for some decent end seating without getting in the way of those seated in reserved.

You have to see it in person to understand, but I think it would work as a basketball venue. I'd guess as a basketball court UP center would seat 5500-6000, and I don't think that would be enought if the Summit came to Fargo.

[roadwarrior]

The Sioux Falls Arena has about 40 rows of seats at mid court. What does the UP Center have? About 15? HUGE difference.

[GOB1SON]

Correct me if I am wrong, but the tourney can't be held on a member's home court, right?

So if the new arena is built onto the FFD (still not sure it is fabulous, by the way), I wonder if the FFD will be able to bid on the tournament?

Same facility, or same court?

[roadwarrior]

If we get the new basketball arena addition to the Fargodome for our home games, the Fargodome could still bid for the tournament if held in the football arena.

[GOB1SON]

If we get the new basketball arena addition to the Fargodome for our home games, the Fargodome could still bid for the tournament if held in the football arena.

Thank you!

[ndsubison1]

Bismarck Civic Center!!! Althought it will never happen cuz it's not a convenient location, but the arena is pretty good.

[MHDBisonfan]

I agree with Ming - the BCC is the best basketball venue in the dakotas. frost is nice, (which can't host anyway) but the civic is fantastic

[Ferd]

Bismarck Civic Center!!! Althought it will never happen cuz it's not a convenient location, but the arena is pretty good.

Sorry to disagree. When/If the UxDs join the Summit attendance at the tournament will always be huge. S Falls should also draw huge crowds. The league tournaments venues are always about the money. The teams will attend anywhere. The fans in the Dakotas will travel 3 - 4 hours.

KC, Indy, Oak, Shreveport, etc... can't draw fans like we do.

Just look at home attendance figures for men's and women's teams in the Summit. Only Oral Roberts beats the individual Dakotas.

I enjoyed the atmosphere in SF. SDSU brought huge crowds. So did we. Now add the UxDs.

[Ferd]

I haven't been in the UP Center yet. Can it handle 6,000+ for Basketball?

On a side note, Would the FFD do the bid or would NDSU? AND if the FFD did, could they sell beer?

I think beer is a huge moneymaker for the dome. If they could sell beer I'm sure they would bid.

[zooropa]

Only Oral Roberts beats the individual Dakotas.

Yeah.... but they count sold tickets not actual attendance. In terms of actual attendance, SDSU & NDSU handily beat the other schools.

And, IMO, that should be brought up by SDSU/NDSU representatives when tournament siting comes up for discussion.

SDSU & NDSU draw fans. The other schools don't. They should see to that before they expect to be considered when it comes to hosting a tournament.

[bisonranch]

Sorry to disagree. When/If the UxDs join the Summit attendance at the tournament will always be huge. S Falls should also draw huge crowds. The league tournaments venues are always about the money. The teams will attend anywhere. The fans in the Dakotas will travel 3 - 4 hours.

KC, Indy, Oak, Shreveport, etc... can't draw fans like we do.

Just look at home attendance figures for men's and women's teams in the Summit. Only Oral Roberts beats the individual Dakotas.

I enjoyed the atmosphere in SF. SDSU brought huge crowds. So did we. Now add the UxDs.

Bismarck has a better venue than Sioux Falls, they can fit 9-10000 for basketball. Sioux Falls has been trying to build a new 12000 seat arena for years and they can't get it done.

[zooropa]

Bismarck has a better venue than Sioux Falls, they can fit 9-10000 for basketball. Sioux Falls has been trying to build a new 12000 seat arena for years and they can't get it done.

They could've gotten it done if they could figure out what they want and where to put it.

You've got some people that want an indoor football venue--which is absolutely idiotic, since there's no college in Sioux Falls in need of a facility--and with even an outside shot at selling it out.

You've got the "It has to be on the edge of town because of traffic" people who don't fathom the fact that facilities served by only one or two major roads will have horrendous traffic after events.

Then you've got the "It has to be down town" people who don't realize that there is a 'brick wall' about a down town location. There's a substantial chunk of the population that is absolutely unpersuadable on the subject.

And finally you've got the 'bulldoze the Arena and put it there" crowd who ignore the gigantic costs involved in bulldozing the arena and the airport flight restrictions. A slightly different set says "keep the Arena and build another venue at Howard Wood Field" which would create a nightmare parking situation.

The people that would finance a campaign can't agree on anything except that the Arena needs to go, so that's where Sioux Falls is at and that's where they're going to stay for the foreseeable future.

Which is fine. Because any facility likely to be built in this chaotic 'football/hockey/basketball/concert/edge of town/down town/tear up the old arena' environment would likely be severely compromised.

[sambini]

I haven't been in the UP Center yet. Can it handle 6,000+ for Basketball?

On a side note, Would the FFD do the bid or would NDSU? AND if the FFD did, could they sell beer?

I think beer is a huge moneymaker for the dome. If they could sell beer I'm sure they would bid.
We have beer to sell if they decide++++

[Tatanka]

They could've gotten it done if they could figure out what they want and where to put it.

You've got some people that want an indoor football venue--which is absolutely idiotic, since there's no college in Sioux Falls in need of a facility--and with even an outside shot at selling it out.

You've got the "It has to be on the edge of town because of traffic" people who don't fathom the fact that facilities served by only one or two major roads will have horrendous traffic after events.

Then you've got the "It has to be down town" people who don't realize that there is a 'brick wall' about a down town location. There's a substantial chunk of the population that is absolutely unpersuadable on the subject.

And finally you've got the 'bulldoze the Arena and put it there" crowd who ignore the gigantic costs involved in bulldozing the arena and the airport flight restrictions. A slightly different set says "keep the Arena and build another venue at Howard Wood Field" which would create a nightmare parking situation.

The people that would finance a campaign can't agree on anything except that the Arena needs to go, so that's where Sioux Falls is at and that's where they're going to stay for the foreseeable future.

Which is fine. Because any facility likely to be built in this chaotic 'football/hockey/basketball/concert/edge of town/down town/tear up the old arena' environment would likely be severely compromised.

Anyone else damn happy we have the Fargodome?

[zooropa]

Anyone else damn happy we have the Fargodome?

You guys got the benefit of a major 'customer' (NDSU) right there in Fargo. Sioux Falls has nothing like it, therefore the 'event center' becomes a sort of blank screen on which assorted movers and shakers project their own visions, with little to no concern for practical realities.

Kelby Krabbenhoft's proposal 'required' an indoor football venue to be paid for by ANNUAL SDSU/USD games, as well as the high school football tournament, and nearly ALL local high school football games.

Consider how bereft of common sense that proposal was:

- Requires the school board to sell a facility they own
- Requires the school board to pay MORE money to use a facility they do not own
- Requires the SDHSAA member schools to cover -more- expenses at a new facility than they pay for at Vermillion and -hope- to draw more fans for the assorted 9-man classes etc.
- Requires that SDSU & USD give up substantially all their gate from lucrative home games against each other
- Requires the Skyforce and Stampede to play in a cavernous football stadium or the still-substandard Arena.
- Requires a waiver from the FAA (snort--extremely unlikely) in order to put a gigantic new facility in the flight line for the airport.

Needless to say, that one's a non-starter. And a testimony to how generous Krabbenhoft is with the funds of public institutions. Earlier he proposed that the school board fund about $2M in changes to Howard Wood to get the Vikings training camp moved to Sioux Falls---the benefit of the Vikings training camp to the Sioux Falls school system was no more apparent then than it is now.

[bisonranch]

zooropa, correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't a new SF arena compete with the Tyson Center in Sioux City too? How did they get their arena built? I used to live in the region and Sioux Falls missed out on a lot of events.

On the UP building, how many does it seat?

[zooropa]

zooropa, correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't a new SF arena compete with the Tyson Center in Sioux City too? How did they get their arena built? I used to live in the region and Sioux Falls missed out on a lot of events.

On the UP building, how many does it seat?

It would compete with both the Tyson Center & the Fargodome for major concert events. It doesn't seem likely that your Springsteens, etc., are going to go to -both- Sioux Falls and Fargo, and I know that drawing A-list concerts is a major 'wish-list' item for city leaders.

As far as how Sioux City got their arena built: The thing about Sioux City is they're the 5th largest metro in Iowa (Des Moines, Quad Cities, Waterloo, Council Bluffs/Omaha), so they're not going to be hosting football tournaments, etc., so the facility was basically limited in scope right off the bat. It was -just- going to be a basketball/hockey facility. Also, I expect that, with their proximity to both Des Moines and Omaha, they knew that a 12,000+ seat concert venue wasn't going to pay the bills. So it was going to be a basketball/hockey arena with no more than maybe eight or ten thousand seats for concerts.

Also they had 1) the Sioux City Auditorium already in place, 2) easy on/off to I-29, 3) a population base more willing to put up with a facility right in the heart of town (because of easy access to the interstate). So facility scope and siting were basically non-issues (as compared to Sioux Falls with it's 'we don't know what we want or where we want it' dilemma).

Finally, I don't think there are people in Sioux City with outsize ambitions for the place. There are in Sioux Falls.

[WYOBISONMAN]

To answer an earlier question. NDSU can't host the BB tourney because the tourney must be played on a neutral court. The neutral court that could host it would be the Fargodome, but my understanding is that it would conflict with the Sportsmens Show, so for the near term a bid by Fargo is out.

[Ferd]

To answer an earlier question. NDSU can't host the BB tourney because the tourney must be played on a neutral court. The neutral court that could host it would be the Fargodome, but my understanding is that it would conflict with the Sportsmens Show, so for the near term a bid by Fargo is out.

This is correct, however the Sportsman show is only booked a year or two in advance.

I don't know what drives the date selection for the Sportsman Show but perhaps compromises could be worked out if persued far enough in advance.

I noticed a lot of beer was sold in Sioux Falls. If that was possible in the FFD I'm sure the Fargodome would like to bid. It's my understanding that NDSU sponsored events will not permit beer to be sold, but the Summit League would be sponsoring this event and they don't seem to mind.

With the possibility of 4 teams being within roughly 300 miles of the site I'm sure the attendance would be high.

Remember the UxDs will not be eligible for the tourney until after their 5 year pergatory... oops.. probation. So if we were looking 3 or 4 years down the road it might fly.

[bisonmike2]

If UXD's get into the Summit, the best place to host the tourney would be the FFD. 10 to 12K capacity which could get filled if all 4 Dakota schools made the tournament. Fargo has the hotel space, the larger venue to accommodate more fans, an airport with flights from major carriers such as United and NWA for the outer schools and the benefit of having 2 schools w/in 70 miles of it and the other 2 w/in 5 hour drive or less.

[zooropa]

What does the extra F in FFD stand for?

[coldspot]

What does the extra F in FFD stand for?

fancy is the usual usage of it.

[zooropa]

fancy is the usual usage of it.

Like this?

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j9/rock_my_kiss/Blog%20Pictures/mcd_ketchup_new.jpg

:p

[lakesbison]

Rob Sobolik pisses me off.

You cant tell me that they cant MOVE the sportsman show back a week or 2 for the Summit Championships.

There'd be 10,000 fans at a game if NDSU or SDSU plays,

thats better than 10 vendors and 1000 people over 3 days, huh ROB??

get chapman to add beer, and VOILA, MONEY MONEY MONEY!!

[bisonmike2]

What does the extra F in FFD stand for?

I've always understood it as fabulous. I do not know the origin of it.

[bisonmike2]

Rob Sobolik pisses me off.

You cant tell me that they cant MOVE the sportsman show back a week or 2 for the Summit Championships.

There'd be 10,000 fans at a game if NDSU or SDSU plays,

thats better than 10 vendors and 1000 people over 3 days, huh ROB??

get chapman to add beer, and VOILA, MONEY MONEY MONEY!!

No sh*t. I heard that before. Really, the sportsman show is that important that you can't push it a week ahead or a week back? Hell, move it to the Civic the same weekend as the tourny and you'd increase the attendance at the sportmans show by triple from all the out of towners looking for something to do. Stupidiest excuse for not bidding on it. Hopefully they've seen the numbers of what Sioux Falls pulled in by hosting it although Rob strikes me as someone who might have to have those numbers explained to him.

[Ferd]

What does the extra F in FFD stand for?

I thought it was "Fabulous".

:confused:

[Ferd]

No sh*t. I heard that before. Really, the sportsman show is that important that you can't push it a week ahead or a week back? Hell, move it to the Civic the same weekend as the tourny and you'd increase the attendance at the sportmans show by triple from all the out of towners looking for something to do. Stupidiest excuse for not bidding on it. Hopefully they've seen the numbers of what Sioux Falls pulled in by hosting it although Rob strikes me as someone who might have to have those numbers explained to him.

It has to do with the concept of a "Contract." The Sportsman show had the weekend booked, period. If they didn't want to change dates then they shouldn't have to.

Imagine how pissed you'd be if they made us move a football game because they could make more putting 29,000 in the dome for a Garth Brooks concert.

(I think I remember we once lost a home football playoff game in the dome because we didn't have the day before booked for practice.)

Start looking for the Summit League tourney BEFORE the sportsman show reserves the date. When is the 2011 tourney, anyway?

[bisonmike2]

It has to do with the concept of a "Contract." The Sportsman show had the weekend booked, period. If they didn't want to change dates then they shouldn't have to.

Imagine how pissed you'd be if they made us move a football game because they could make more putting 29,000 in the dome for a Garth Brooks concert.

(I think I remember we once lost a home football playoff game in the dome because we didn't have the day before booked for practice.)

Start looking for the Summit League tourney BEFORE the sportsman show reserves the date. When is the 2011 tourney, anyway?

buy them out or give them a discount on a moved date. $$$ made from the tournament should be > than $$$ paid to alter the existing contract for the Sportmans show. This sort of thing happens all the time. I wouldn't be pissed if they moved a football game for a Garth Brooks concert provided that the game was still scheduled and it was done years in advance like we're proposing. The tournament is in SF next year so the earliest would be 2011. More than enough time to tell Bob's Fishing Log in Winnipeg to change his calender and bring down his kiosk on a different weekend. It's not like we'd be moving it the week before and than telling all the exhibitors, "sorry guys we moved it to next week." The unwillingness to examine that option is puzzling to me.

[Ferd]

buy them out or give them a discount on a moved date. $$$ made from the tournament should be > than $$$ paid to alter the existing contract for the Sportmans show. This sort of thing happens all the time. I wouldn't be pissed if they moved a football game for a Garth Brooks concert provided that the game was still scheduled and it was done years in advance like we're proposing. The tournament is in SF next year so the earliest would be 2011. More than enough time to tell Bob's Fishing Log in Winnipeg to change his calender and bring down his kiosk on a different weekend. It's not like we'd be moving it the week before and than telling all the exhibitors, "sorry guys we moved it to next week." The unwillingness to examine that option is puzzling to me.

I'm confused...

The FFD can bid on 2011 and beyond. Do it. Find a date. Schedule it.

[zooropa]

Another factor:

These outdoors shows are all linked together. The Sioux Falls sports show was the week after the Fargo sports show. The 'pattern' may well be so firmly entrenched that Fargo's options are either 'have the show on the first weekend of March or don't have it at all.' At least in the near term.

Also, I thought I read that Fargo's booked up until 2012 or 2013.

[UTH]

I thought it was "Fabulous".

:confused:



Winner, winner...
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff311/indio_rojas/0_attitude_fabulous.gif
Chicken dinner!!!

[lakesbison]

No sh... t if its not in fargo in 2012, thats just laziness!! put it at the civic or up center!! or in the west acres mall...ha ha...

[bisonmike2]

Another factor:

These outdoors shows are all linked together. The Sioux Falls sports show was the week after the Fargo sports show. The 'pattern' may well be so firmly entrenched that Fargo's options are either 'have the show on the first weekend of March or don't have it at all.' At least in the near term.

Also, I thought I read that Fargo's booked up until 2012 or 2013.

That's what I was thinking that it's booked until 2012 or 2013. I really think the way the tournament went down in Sioux Falls that both the city of SF and the Summit League will look at locking it up there for an extended time come next contract negotiations leaving Fargo and any other school out of luck for a while. That's just my personal feeling.

[Herd]

IMO, Sioux Falls was sweet. Step out of your hotel room and walk down to the arena . . . that's awful nice. Sioux Falls has a good situation there.

I spent quite a bit of time talking to Bunny fans, or at least trying to. There was no love for the Bison in Sioux Falls by most of the Bunny fans (which is fine, I just didn't understand it)

Other than the Lakes crew (which was outwardly rooting aginst the Rabbits, I think most bison fans were pulling for our transition partners. But then its easy to root for the #7 seed, so maybe I would have felt the same as the Bunnies if SDSU was the #1 seed, who knows. All I'm saying, other than the bison fans, we could just as well of been playing in Tulsa. No one else was rooting for us. Sioux Falls was closer to Fargo, but noone not wearing Green was rooting for us.

[bisonmike2]

IMO, Sioux Falls was sweet. Step out of your hotel room and walk down to the arena . . . that's awful nice. Sioux Falls has a good situation there.

I spent quite a bit of time talking to Bunny fans, or at least trying to. There was no love for the Bison in Sioux Falls by most of the Bunny fans (which is fine, I just didn't understand it)

Other than the Lakes crew (which was outwardly rooting aginst the Rabbits, I think most bison fans were pulling for our transition partners. But then its easy to root for the #7 seed, so maybe I would have felt the same as the Bunnies if SDSU was the #1 seed, who knows. All I'm saying, other than the bison fans, we could just as well of been playing in Tulsa. No one else was rooting for us. Sioux Falls was closer to Fargo, but noone not wearing Green was rooting for us.

If Fargo doesn't get it I hope Sioux Falls can hold onto the tournament. I do not want to see it head back to Tulsa for obvious reasons. And if SF keeps it I hope they use the momentum to finally put forth and get an arena plan in place. It really does need a better multi-purpose facility than what they currently have. I'm also in favor of some place in Minneapolis, perhaps the Target Center. We won't come close to filling it but it's a nice location to get all teams in the Summit to converge on. Plus we know the NDSU fans will show up in the TC.

[tjbison]

Its not just the Sportsman show as i understood it, its also the state Class A combined Boys and Girls Tourney, but yes I think 2012 is the earliest they can make a bid for it, also the walk out of your hotel and to the arena, there are 3 hotels across the street from the Dome, and wouldn't be surprised if there are not 4 by the end of this year, if they get it I just hope they throw some extra lights in there to get the championship game in HD!!! Anybody else notice the extra lights jhanging in the Metrodump to make the HD compatible lighting!! easy to do

[Hammersmith]

1. The bids for the Summit tourney are currently two years each.
2. The current bid is for Sioux Falls in 2009 and 2010.
3. The bids currently being submitted will be for the 2011/2012 tourneys.
4. The Sportsmen's Show and the ND HS BB tourneys have the Fargodome booked through 2011.

Thus:
1. The first contract the Fargodome can bid on will be for 2013/2014.

Also:
1. The Sportmen's Show is one of the Fargodome's most profitable annual events; bringing in as much as several Bison football games(though not more than all of them combined). You don't piss off one of the core events of your calender for the possibility of two, four-day events.
2. As stated by another poster, moving the Sportsmen's Show is not an option because most of the hundred-plus exhibits have other shows they go to the week before and the week after; any movement of the dates would cause a chain reaction of conflicts. Ask PL, he does a few of these in his part of the country.

[lakesbison]

BULL#$HIT.

you DROP THE SPORTSMAN SHOW FOR THE SUMMIT TOURNEY. PERIOD!!


if we are going to be the "PREMIERE" team in the Summit, we need to have this tourney in fargo as much as possible.


You move the BB Regional games around, and BUY out the sportsman show contract.

THIS IS FREAKIN EMBARASSIN!!

[tjbison]

BULL#$HIT.

you DROP THE SPORTSMAN SHOW FOR THE SUMMIT TOURNEY. PERIOD!!


if we are going to be the "PREMIERE" team in the Summit, we need to have this tourney in fargo as much as possible.


You move the BB Regional games around, and BUY out the sportsman show contract.

THIS IS FREAKIN EMBARASSIN!!

RELAX!!!! take a breath, having the tourney in Fargo has zero bearing on the performance of our mens and womens bball teams, the sportsman show makes a ton of money, and draws lots of people, they will make a bid after they finish with their current contracts;)

[bisonmike2]

RELAX!!!! take a breath, having the tourney in Fargo has zero bearing on the performance of our mens and womens bball teams, the sportsman show makes a ton of money, and draws lots of people, they will decide to make a bid after Sioux Falls locks up the tourny for 10 years and it's too late.

Fixed that for you.

[99Bison]

2. As stated by another poster, moving the Sportsmen's Show is not an option because most of the hundred-plus exhibits have other shows they go to the week before and the week after; any movement of the dates would cause a chain reaction of conflicts. Ask PL, he does a few of these in his part of the country.

Swap dates with Sioux Falls for whomever wins the bid (this year the show was following weekend there). Then again bidding against each other and cooperating probably isn't top of the list :)

[Hammersmith]

Fixed that for you.

There is no way that is going to happen(10 years in SF). Some of the Summit coaches were already complaining about SDSU's home court advantage after only one year. Also, Tulsa showed how something great can turn into the routine in only a few years. In the first two years the tourney was in Tulsa, everything was great. Attendance was high and the tourney received great support from the city leaders. The next two years saw a marked decrease in both those areas. I have to believe the Summit presidents learned from that. I solidly believe the conference will not leave the tourney in one city for more than four years; and most times it will only be for two. Sioux Falls, Fargo and Tulsa will all be regular hosts of the tourney, with the Quad Cities and maybe another site being used occasionally to keep the other members happy. There is also the remote possibility that the Summit might split the men's and women's tourneys up if they feel both can turn a profit. Fargo and Sioux Falls would probably lock up the women's tourney, and each would get the men's every few years. Splitting the tourneys could never have worked until SDSU & NDSU joined the Summit. If UND & USD are invited into the conference, I'd say there is a better than 50/50 chance of it happening.

[bisonmike2]

There is no way that is going to happen(10 years in SF). Some of the Summit coaches were already complaining about SDSU's home court advantage after only one year. Also, Tulsa showed how something great can turn into the routine in only a few years. In the first two years the tourney was in Tulsa, everything was great. Attendance was high and the tourney received great support from the city leaders. The next two years saw a marked decrease in both those areas. I have to believe the Summit presidents learned from that. I solidly believe the conference will not leave the tourney in one city for more than four years; and most times it will only be for two. Sioux Falls, Fargo and Tulsa will all be regular hosts of the tourney, with the Quad Cities and maybe another site being used occasionally to keep the other members happy. There is also the remote possibility that the Summit might split the men's and women's tourneys up if they feel both can turn a profit. Fargo and Sioux Falls would probably lock up the women's tourney, and each would get the men's every few years. Splitting the tourneys could never have worked until SDSU & NDSU joined the Summit. If UND & USD are invited into the conference, I'd say there is a better than 50/50 chance of it happening.

I agree with most of that. for the most part I was joking about the 10 years but money talks and really all it would take is a city to put in a ridiculous offer to lock down the tourney for an extended period of time. Although with the economy in the crapper that's not likely to happen anytime soon. I'll still maintain that if it ain't in t SF or Fargo I would love to see it in Minneapolis. Anyone know who we need to talk to down here to get this done? Not to sound all Lakes on you but Minneapolis and it's downtown bars/hotels love NDSU. Add SDSU, USD, and UND to the mix and they would stand to make a lot of money by having the Summit at the Target Center.

[Hammersmith]

I agree with most of that. for the most part I was joking about the 10 years but money talks and really all it would take is a city to put in a ridiculous offer to lock down the tourney for an extended period of time. Although with the economy in the crapper that's not likely to happen anytime soon. I'll still maintain that if it ain't in t SF or Fargo I would love to see it in Minneapolis. Anyone know who we need to talk to down here to get this done? Not to sound all Lakes on you but Minneapolis and it's downtown bars/hotels love NDSU. Add SDSU, USD, and UND to the mix and they would stand to make a lot of money by having the Summit at the Target Center.

I see what you're saying, but I think it has a fatal flaw. The Summit tourney is just too small-time for MSP to care about. What if they're hosting part of the NCAAs again or the Big Ten tourney(don't know how that's handled)? We'd be a footnote to them. And just think of how empty the Target Center would look on a Monday or Tuesday if NDSU wasn't playing. Of even if we were. Remember, we don't control the dates; ESPN does.

I think the criteria for choosing the tourney location is pretty evident. And it's all about profits.

1. The tourney should be located near a Summit member with a strong basketball following that stands a good chance of winning one or more games.

2. If possible, locating near a second member like the above is greatly preferred.

3. The city must be large enough to house the tourney(hotels, restaurants, etc) and be relatively easy to get to(airport, interstates, etc).

4. The city should be small enough that the tournament is a big deal.

5. The tourney must move around so as to not favor one school for a prolonged time.

6. The location should have multiple mid-to-large corporations based in the city that will be willing to help sponsor it.


Minneapolis fails test 4 and is weak in tests 1, 2 and 6. Bismarck fails test 2, 3 and 6. Rapid City(being talked about on the Bunny Board) fails on 1, 2 ,3 and 6. Tulsa fails test 2, and is a bit weak in test 4. Fargo and Sioux Falls score high in all of them(though both are a bit weak in test 3 depending on weather).

[bisonmike2]

I see what you're saying, but I think it has a fatal flaw. The Summit tourney is just too small-time for MSP to care about. What if they're hosting part of the NCAAs again or the Big Ten tourney(don't know how that's handled)? We'd be a footnote to them. And just think of how empty the Target Center would look on a Monday or Tuesday if NDSU wasn't playing. Of even if we were. Remember, we don't control the dates; ESPN does.

I think the criteria for choosing the tourney location is pretty evident. And it's all about profits.

1. The tourney should be located near a Summit member with a strong basketball following that stands a good chance of winning one or more games.

2. If possible, locating near a second member like the above is greatly preferred.

3. The city must be large enough to house the tourney(hotels, restaurants, etc) and be relatively easy to get to(airport, interstates, etc).

4. The city should be small enough that the tournament is a big deal.

5. The tourney must move around so as to not favor one school for a prolonged time.

6. The location should have multiple mid-to-large corporations based in the city that will be willing to help sponsor it.


Minneapolis fails test 4 and is weak in tests 1, 2 and 6. Bismarck fails test 2, 3 and 6. Rapid City(being talked about on the Bunny Board) fails on 1, 2 ,3 and 6. Tulsa fails test 2, and is a bit weak in test 4. Fargo and Sioux Falls score high in all of them(though both are a bit weak in test 3 depending on weather).

Rapid City would suck. Nice town but what a pain in the ass to get to for pretty much everybody, especially in late Feb to March. And their airport isn't that great, travel would be expensive for every team. At least Fargo and Sioux Falls have decent sized regional airports.

[BisBison]

Rapid City would suck. Nice town but what a pain in the ass to get to for pretty much everybody, especially in late Feb to March. And their airport isn't that great, travel would be expensive for every team. At least Fargo and Sioux Falls have decent sized regional airports.

Plus who would be the host institution? SD School of Mines?:confused:

[56BISON73]

1. The bids for the Summit tourney are currently two years each.
2. The current bid is for Sioux Falls in 2009 and 2010.
3. The bids currently being submitted will be for the 2011/2012 tourneys.
4. The Sportsmen's Show and the ND HS BB tourneys have the Fargodome booked through 2011.

Thus:
1. The first contract the Fargodome can bid on will be for 2013/2014.

Also:
1. The Sportmen's Show is one of the Fargodome's most profitable annual events; bringing in as much as several Bison football games(though not more than all of them combined). You don't piss off one of the core events of your calender for the possibility of two, four-day events.
2. As stated by another poster, moving the Sportsmen's Show is not an option because most of the hundred-plus exhibits have other shows they go to the week before and the week after; any movement of the dates would cause a chain reaction of conflicts. Ask PL, he does a few of these in his part of the country.

Correct. There are many shows around the country at that time. Its a Multi-Multi million dollar dollar industry unto its self. Not to mention the companies and vendors who participate. Many shows dates are set in stone every year as not to be in conflict with other shows and many sites have "no compete" provisions with other venues. The NWTF Convention and Sport Show in Nashville had 45,000 people come through the doors creating an ecomomic empact of 13 million dollars for the 4 day event.

[unbison]

I noticed while in suck falls that they hosted that show the weekend following the summit tourney..... I believe it would not cause that much disruption to switch weekends with them as i believe the exhibitors would be virtually the same. Not my area of expertise so i will eagerly await for comments from my new friend PL

[56BISON73]

I noticed while in suck falls that they hosted that show the weekend following the summit tourney..... I believe it would not cause that much disruption to switch weekends with them as i believe the exhibitors would be virtually the same. Not my area of expertise so i will eagerly await for comments from my new friend PL

Anytime you switch dates of an established show it messes everyone up. Some vendors have shows set up every weekend. Some every other weekend depending on availability of product and travel. This goes on for about 3-4 months. Then the sport show season is over except for a few.
So for vendors that rely on sport show you have to make hay while the sun shines. Change a date and you could lose vendors who are all ready booked at another sport show.