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View Full Version : ORU 2/28: Now a must Win for #1 seed



Herd
02-20-2009, 04:51 AM
Let's Assume . . .
2/21 ORU @ KC (ORU win)
2/26 NDSU @ Cent (NDSU win)
2/26 SDSU @ ORU (ORU win)

Then . . .
NDSU 15-2
ORU 14-3

Last Game of the Season:
2/28 NDSU @ ORU (ORU win) ORU #1 Seed (or)
2/28 NDSU @ ORU (NDSU wins) NDSU #1 Seed

Why? With ORU win . . . (NDSU at 15-3, ORU at 15-3)
ORU Losses: Oakland, IPFW, NDSU
NDSU Losses: Oakland, SUU, ORU

SUU rated higher than IPFW - ORU wins #1 seed.
Bottom Line, lose at ORU and we're #2. (unless we get help from Jacks)

lakesbison
02-20-2009, 05:22 AM
thats why the SUU loss is the worse loss in school history!!!

Herd
02-20-2009, 05:30 AM
Not the worst loss in history . . . we still control our own destiny. But it certainly didn't help.

I thought the best chance for some help before the 28th was tonight in Cedar City, but we all know how that went.

Herd
02-20-2009, 05:36 AM
Other hypothetical questions . . .

If we are the #2 Seed but Conf Co-Champions at 15-3 with ORU, would we still get an NIT berth if ORU won the conference tournament and went to the dance?

(or)

If NDSU and ORU are co-champions and Oakland wins the Summit tournament, would both NDSU and ORU get NIT invites?
____

Maybe the big game is at Centenary, where we can win and insure ourselves a piece of the title and an NIT berth. That would be the consolation prize for a tournament loss in Sioux Falls. Bottom line, we need to win in Sioux Falls, but that would be easier IMO as a #1 seed, not a #2.

heckler
02-20-2009, 05:51 AM
The magic number is two right?

Herd
02-20-2009, 06:06 AM
The magic number is two right?

It's not that simple man, read post #1. But for those of you who want a simple answer and a magic number . . .


Magic Numbers: (conbination of NDSU wins & ORU losses)

1 Win share of Conf title, but #2 seed; No NIT berth

2 Conference Title and #1 seed; but this includes a Win at ORU most likely unless ORU loses at KC (there's a better chance of the economy turing around in March) or ORU loses to a winless on the road Jackrabbit team at ORU (not betting on that either).

lakesbison
02-20-2009, 06:11 AM
no guys, I THINK if oral roberts gets #1 seed, and goes to dance , no one goes to NIT.
ONLY IF U ARE Champs and lose in conf. tourney, you get to the NIT

NDSUstudent
02-20-2009, 06:12 AM
NDSU needs to clinch the number one seed to have a NIT autobid. The game in Tulsa will be huge.

Herd
02-20-2009, 06:19 AM
Another interesting Twist for NDSU . . . If we win at ORU, the Centenary game doesn't matter for Seeding purposes.

If we lose to Centenary but beat ORU . . . (Assuming ORU beats KC/SDSU)
NDSU = 15-3; Conference Title; #1 Seed
ORU = 15-3; Share Conf Title; 2 losses to NDSU - #2 Seed

Heck, if we are going to win at ORU, we could just throw the Centenary game.;) I guess if we did beat Centenary, we would have the Summit Title by ourselves vs. sharing it.

Herd
02-20-2009, 06:21 AM
NDSU needs to clinch the number one seed to have a NIT autobid. The game in Tulsa will be huge.

Is that a fact or assumption?

Herd
02-20-2009, 06:23 AM
no guys, I THINK if oral roberts gets #1 seed, and goes to dance , no one goes to NIT.
ONLY IF U ARE Champs and lose in conf. tourney, you get to the NIT

If two teams are 15-3, they are both Summit Conference Champions. So you are saying that you need to be a Conf Champion (or) Co-Champion and also have the #1 seed to get an NIT berth? That's what I've been wondering.

Herd
02-20-2009, 06:38 AM
If we lose to ORU, the results:
#2 Seed
No NIT chance
SDSU's bracket
Oakland in the semi's

If we win at ORU, the results:
#1 Seed
NIT Berth
IPFW or WIL in the 1st round
Totally avoid SDSU if they stay 6/7 (most likely)
No ORU or Oakland until the finals

NDSUstudent
02-20-2009, 06:44 AM
Is that a fact or assumption?

I read that on the ORU board a while back but it does make sense. The autobid was put into place to protect the number one seed.

Herd
02-20-2009, 06:50 AM
I read that on the ORU board a while back but it does make sense.

Thanks! After giving it more thought, it makes sense. Two teams with the same record would each still hang a Conference Champ banner though, right? Or would only 1 be recognized as the Champion?

NDSUstudent
02-20-2009, 06:52 AM
Thanks! After giving it more thought, it makes sense. Two teams with the same record would each still hang a Conference Champ banner though, right? Or would only 1 be recognized as the Champion?

As long as the two teams tie both get to hang a banner, hopefully it doesn't come to that though. I think this team has what it takes to win in Tulsa, it won't be easy but I think the SUU game has motivated this team to finish strong.

Herd
02-20-2009, 07:00 AM
As long as the two teams tie both get to hang a banner, hopefully it doesn't come to that though. I think this team has what it takes to win in Tulsa, it won't be easy but I think the SUU game has motivated this team to finish strong.

5 years from now a Championship Banner is nice, but if you ended up with a #2 seed, didn't make it to the Dance, and didn't get an NIT berth, it would be pretty meaningless this year.

If we lose in ORU, yes it will most likely come to that . . . unless the Jacks can pull a Rabbit out of their hat or we lose at Centenary. Do you want a piece of the action for SDSU beating ORU on the road? Maybe next years championship caliber Rabbit team will make an appearance on the road this year, but I'm not going to wager on that.

Herd
02-20-2009, 07:29 AM
I think NDSU can win at ORU, but your damn right that I'll be a Rabbit fan (huge Rabbit fan) on 2/26.

BTW set your DVR's:
2/26 SDSU @ ORU: DTV Channel 617 or FCS on your local cable station.
2/28 NDSU @ ORU: DTV Channel 617 or FCS on your local cable station.

Bison"FANatic"
02-20-2009, 02:24 PM
I think NDSU can win at ORU, but your damn right that I'll be a Rabbit fan (huge Rabbit fan) on 2/26.

BTW set your DVR's:
2/26 SDSU @ ORU: DTV Channel 617 or FCS on your local cable station.
2/28 NDSU @ ORU: DTV Channel 617 or FCS on your local cable station.

Checked last night just to make sure it was listed and it was!!!!

WYOBISONMAN
02-20-2009, 04:28 PM
We have a gun to our head for sure.....

http://www.affordablehousinginstitute.org/blogs/us/Holmes_gun_to_head_small.jpg

Bison bison
02-20-2009, 04:31 PM
If we lose to ORU, the results:
#2 Seed
No NIT chance
SDSU's bracket
Oakland in the semi's



I'm not sure if that's true herd. We'd be co-champs.

The seeding has nothing to do with record - per the summit league website.

99Bison
02-20-2009, 04:40 PM
IPFW vs. SUU isn't done yet either really... they each have 3 games left and one against each other.

99Bison
02-20-2009, 04:55 PM
I read that on the ORU board a while back but it does make sense. The autobid was put into place to protect the number one seed.

Here's a wiki (and numerous other places) paragraph on the selection process:
"Similar to the automatic bids the NCAA Tournament grants for all conference tournament champions, all teams that won regular-season conference championships but failed to earn NCAA tournament bids are guaranteed places in the NIT. Thus, more teams from the low-major conferences may qualify. (Mid-major regular season conference champions have traditionally been invited.) "

According to the Summit League website, teams are considered co-champions in all regards. Since seeding is need to establish playoff position, there are tie breakers for that. You'd think that this would be extremely intentional for this Summit League to word it as such.

Also read somewhere that the co-champion typically gets in the nit if the other goes ncaa... Guessing there isn't a strong history to support it one way or another since the rule is only 3 years old or so... although reading all the above sure points to it.

Herd
02-21-2009, 06:44 PM
Thanks, so . . .

Being a co-Champion only gets you the NIT bid if the other co-Champion wins the tournament. If NDSU was co-champ with the #2 seed and Oakland (#3 seed) wins the tournament, then ORU #1 seed would get the NIT bid ahead of us.

ndsubison1
02-21-2009, 06:49 PM
so if we beat Centenary and lose to ORU, we would lose the tiebreaker?

NDSUstudent
02-21-2009, 06:53 PM
If SUU finishes ahead of IPFW and NDSU loses at ORU, ORU gets the #1 seed

If IPFW finishes ahead of SUU and NDSU beats Centenary but loses to ORU, NDSU is the #1 seed.

If SUU and IPFW tie, whichever team that has the best RPI gets the #1 seed.

***This is based on ORU beating UMKC and SDSU.

99Bison
02-21-2009, 08:24 PM
Thanks, so . . .

Being a co-Champion only gets you the NIT bid if the other co-Champion wins the tournament. If NDSU was co-champ with the #2 seed and Oakland (#3 seed) wins the tournament, then ORU #1 seed would get the NIT bid ahead of us.

We don't know that... what we do know:
1. In case of co-champions there is seeding is for the conference tournament.
2. The co-champions are equal in terms of Summit League regular season standings.
3. NIT guarantees regular season champions get an autobid if they are not in NCAA tourney.

That's all we know...

In speculation, by those terms it sounds like both teams would get into the NIT, however there may be other details in the NIT bylaws that limit to one autobid or something else.

RedRiver
02-21-2009, 09:25 PM
Thanks, so . . .

Being a co-Champion only gets you the NIT bid if the other co-Champion wins the tournament. If NDSU was co-champ with the #2 seed and Oakland (#3 seed) wins the tournament, then ORU #1 seed would get the NIT bid ahead of us.

CORRECT...............

Saul has stated that numerous times on the radio lately and that senerio has also been published on the Bison Media Blog.

If the Bison are co-champs and seeded #2 for the Summit tourney and OR is seeded #1 and wins the tourney and goes to the NCAA, the Bison get the auto bid to the NIT.

cvbison1
02-21-2009, 09:58 PM
sorry to interupt, but NDSU will win the conference tourny, so no worries. miss cleo is not fake

ndsubison1
02-22-2009, 05:22 AM
so what if SUU loses both next week and IPFW wins both (which includes over SUU) and we beat Centenary and lose to ORU? Then we win the tiebreaker? Cuz wouldnt it then go to RPI?

Hammersmith
02-22-2009, 12:59 PM
so what if SUU loses both next week and IPFW wins both (which includes over SUU) and we beat Centenary and lose to ORU? Then we win the tiebreaker? Cuz wouldnt it then go to RPI?

In that scenario, I think you're right. Since IPFW lost the first meeting between the two, a win over SUU would result in a split head-to-head, and you can't determine which has the higher seed until NDSU/ORU is determined. It's an endless cycle; you can't determine NDSU/ORU without knowing IPFW/SUU, and you can't know IPFW/SUU without knowing NDSU/ORU. You'd have to go to RPI in that case.

Golden Eagle
02-22-2009, 04:59 PM
If SUU finishes ahead of IPFW and NDSU loses at ORU, ORU gets the #1 seed

If IPFW finishes ahead of SUU and NDSU beats Centenary but loses to ORU, NDSU is the #1 seed.

If SUU and IPFW tie, whichever team that has the best RPI gets the #1 seed.

***This is based on ORU beating UMKC and SDSU.

I believe this is correct.

UMKC/ORU Highlights (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGHqGKRbP2U)

lakesbison
02-27-2009, 04:29 AM
Lets Get It On!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bison"FANatic"
02-27-2009, 01:57 PM
Hopefully Luke can stop Lewis with his spin move. If he can do that we will have a great shot. The rabbits were getting it done last night until the last part of the game when Lewis took over.

sambini
02-28-2009, 09:36 AM
Lets Go Bison++++