Thundering Herd
02-02-2009, 12:25 AM
Farmers vs. Flickertails
The American Civil War was fought from 1861-1865. It divided this country during that time and for many years after the last shot was fired. Fargo was the site of a battle twenty-nine years after the civil war ended. It was there, on November 3rd., 1894, where the Farmers and the Flickertails fought for the first time. It was time for the residents of North Dakota to choose sides! During the years, the mascots changed, a ‘Nickel’ was cast, and the rivalry grew more and more intense. The mighty Bison, fearing that they were falling behind and yearning for better competition, made the choice one day (along with their brethren from South Dakota State University) to make the leap from being a Division II university, to Division I. When asked to come with, UND said something to the effect of “no thanks”. An invitation to UND to continue to play NDSU in athletics returned another “no thanks”. Fans were shocked, could this be true? Didn’t UND want anything to do with NDSU anymore? Well, the football schedules came out and yes, they weren’t going to play each other! NDSU/SDSU had it’s bumps and bruises, but came out of the transitional period stronger, better. Upon seeing this, UND decided to give it a shot. They found it a bit more difficult as the timing wasn’t as good. They had a hard time with scheduling, their mascot, and personnel. They needed help! “Hello, NDSU? Yes, it’s us, UND. We’d like to play you again.” Well, the tables had turned. The timing wasn’t quite right for them to start playing again!!!
There are a couple of reasons for this rivalry to continue: it’s one of the oldest in the country in college football, and because of the close proximity of the two schools. But, there are many reasons why this game should not be played for a few more years.
First of all, NDSU is in the Summit League for all sports but wrestling and football. The commissioner has warned members of the Summit League to not schedule UND in any sports and won’t consider them (UND) for conference membership until the mascot/logo issues have been resolved.
Secondly, they shouldn’t play for a couple more years until things cool down a little more. Die-hards from both sides still mercilessly taunt each other back-and-forth at the office, on the internet, at family reunions (personal experience),…etc. It used to be a week-long celebration of hate for each other culminating with a football game that could’ve decided the conference champion and who goes to the playoffs. Now, it’s just another football game that divides the State with no benefit for either party.
The rivalry won’t mean as much as it did before. UND and NDSU used to be foes in the North Central Conference in Division II football. Every matchup could’ve decided the conference title when they would play. Now, they are both in the Football Championship Subdivision (or FCS- formerly DI-AA), but in different conferences: UND is in the Great West Conference and NDSU is in the traditionally tough Missouri Valley FB Conference. Either side has nothing to gain but the ‘Nickel Trophy’ and a nickel’s worth of publicity from outside of the State.
The schedule is so much more difficult. Currently, the FCS season is about 13 weeks long. Of that, NDSU has: 8 hard-fought conference games, two games where they’d like to schedule traditionally-tough FCS teams for better competition/exposure and 1 FBS opponent. This schedule leaves them with two bye weeks to rest and heal which is needed to be competitive if they make the playoffs. Seven wins may get you into the playoffs, but at least 8 is preferred. NDSU cannot afford one more game with UND until they(UND) are playing at the level of an upper-rated FCS program. When that day comes, then by all means, they should play. Every other year would be the best scenario though, affording both sides to play more teams from outside of the region as well as more home games (money-makers!).
Because of the difficulty of the schedule, recruiting is so much more intense in FCS football if you want to put a competitive team on the field. With UND and the University of South Dakota’s move up to Division I athletics to join NDSU and SDSU, that makes 4 universities in ND and SD at the Division I level now. The Dakotas do yield some Division I talent, but not enough to support 4 programs. Because of this, NDSU wants national exposure, not regional. It would be in UND’s best interest to schedule competition from around the country as well!
NDSU football is more popular than ever. With almost all home games being sellouts and with the Fargodome’s larger capacity (19,000+ for FB and opposed to the Alerus Center’s 13,500) it would be beneficial financially for both sides if they played in Fargo more often in Grand Forks. Division I athletics is not cheap (more scholarships and travel to pay for) and the more money that’s made, the better. The cost of a Bison/Sioux FB game ticket in 2003 was around $27.50. Today, it would be around $35.00 (?). 5,500 extra fans in the Fargodome at $35.00/each amounts to $192,500.00 extra that’s made when the game is in Fargo. NDSU could guarantee UND more money for a game in Fargo. How much could UND pay NDSU? Both sides would lose money.
In summary: UND needs to resolve the issue with it’s mascot and logo! Playing UND in football doesn’t help NDSU with the playoff picture right now. It doesn’t help either side with gaining national exposure, making it easier to attract boosters/raise funds and find better recruits. Financially, it makes no sense for NDSU to play UND in Grand Forks when they could schedule another game at the Fargodome. The final reason for them to not play quite yet is the respect/hate issues. This is not just a FB game anymore with post-season consequences, it’s a hatefest that divides ND with it’s own ‘Mason-Dixon Line’. According to a 1975 Fargo Forum article: the two schools broke off all athletic ties for brief periods in 1903 and 1907 because the rivalry became so intense. That was over 100 years ago!!! It’s been six years since the Bison have played the Sioux. Give it two more years to settle down and for UND to ‘learn the ropes’ and get used to this level of competition. NDSU, UND and their respective fans aren’t going anywhere as you can see, so give it a little more time! These two schools will play again someday! We don’t need to tell them when.
Thank you.
Joe Spencer (not real name, but drunken alter-ego)
Bismarck, ND
NDSU alum (UND hockey fan :hide: )
*I plan on sending this to the committee members. Comments, suggestions, donations to the Joe Spencer fund (increments of twenty only! ;) )
The American Civil War was fought from 1861-1865. It divided this country during that time and for many years after the last shot was fired. Fargo was the site of a battle twenty-nine years after the civil war ended. It was there, on November 3rd., 1894, where the Farmers and the Flickertails fought for the first time. It was time for the residents of North Dakota to choose sides! During the years, the mascots changed, a ‘Nickel’ was cast, and the rivalry grew more and more intense. The mighty Bison, fearing that they were falling behind and yearning for better competition, made the choice one day (along with their brethren from South Dakota State University) to make the leap from being a Division II university, to Division I. When asked to come with, UND said something to the effect of “no thanks”. An invitation to UND to continue to play NDSU in athletics returned another “no thanks”. Fans were shocked, could this be true? Didn’t UND want anything to do with NDSU anymore? Well, the football schedules came out and yes, they weren’t going to play each other! NDSU/SDSU had it’s bumps and bruises, but came out of the transitional period stronger, better. Upon seeing this, UND decided to give it a shot. They found it a bit more difficult as the timing wasn’t as good. They had a hard time with scheduling, their mascot, and personnel. They needed help! “Hello, NDSU? Yes, it’s us, UND. We’d like to play you again.” Well, the tables had turned. The timing wasn’t quite right for them to start playing again!!!
There are a couple of reasons for this rivalry to continue: it’s one of the oldest in the country in college football, and because of the close proximity of the two schools. But, there are many reasons why this game should not be played for a few more years.
First of all, NDSU is in the Summit League for all sports but wrestling and football. The commissioner has warned members of the Summit League to not schedule UND in any sports and won’t consider them (UND) for conference membership until the mascot/logo issues have been resolved.
Secondly, they shouldn’t play for a couple more years until things cool down a little more. Die-hards from both sides still mercilessly taunt each other back-and-forth at the office, on the internet, at family reunions (personal experience),…etc. It used to be a week-long celebration of hate for each other culminating with a football game that could’ve decided the conference champion and who goes to the playoffs. Now, it’s just another football game that divides the State with no benefit for either party.
The rivalry won’t mean as much as it did before. UND and NDSU used to be foes in the North Central Conference in Division II football. Every matchup could’ve decided the conference title when they would play. Now, they are both in the Football Championship Subdivision (or FCS- formerly DI-AA), but in different conferences: UND is in the Great West Conference and NDSU is in the traditionally tough Missouri Valley FB Conference. Either side has nothing to gain but the ‘Nickel Trophy’ and a nickel’s worth of publicity from outside of the State.
The schedule is so much more difficult. Currently, the FCS season is about 13 weeks long. Of that, NDSU has: 8 hard-fought conference games, two games where they’d like to schedule traditionally-tough FCS teams for better competition/exposure and 1 FBS opponent. This schedule leaves them with two bye weeks to rest and heal which is needed to be competitive if they make the playoffs. Seven wins may get you into the playoffs, but at least 8 is preferred. NDSU cannot afford one more game with UND until they(UND) are playing at the level of an upper-rated FCS program. When that day comes, then by all means, they should play. Every other year would be the best scenario though, affording both sides to play more teams from outside of the region as well as more home games (money-makers!).
Because of the difficulty of the schedule, recruiting is so much more intense in FCS football if you want to put a competitive team on the field. With UND and the University of South Dakota’s move up to Division I athletics to join NDSU and SDSU, that makes 4 universities in ND and SD at the Division I level now. The Dakotas do yield some Division I talent, but not enough to support 4 programs. Because of this, NDSU wants national exposure, not regional. It would be in UND’s best interest to schedule competition from around the country as well!
NDSU football is more popular than ever. With almost all home games being sellouts and with the Fargodome’s larger capacity (19,000+ for FB and opposed to the Alerus Center’s 13,500) it would be beneficial financially for both sides if they played in Fargo more often in Grand Forks. Division I athletics is not cheap (more scholarships and travel to pay for) and the more money that’s made, the better. The cost of a Bison/Sioux FB game ticket in 2003 was around $27.50. Today, it would be around $35.00 (?). 5,500 extra fans in the Fargodome at $35.00/each amounts to $192,500.00 extra that’s made when the game is in Fargo. NDSU could guarantee UND more money for a game in Fargo. How much could UND pay NDSU? Both sides would lose money.
In summary: UND needs to resolve the issue with it’s mascot and logo! Playing UND in football doesn’t help NDSU with the playoff picture right now. It doesn’t help either side with gaining national exposure, making it easier to attract boosters/raise funds and find better recruits. Financially, it makes no sense for NDSU to play UND in Grand Forks when they could schedule another game at the Fargodome. The final reason for them to not play quite yet is the respect/hate issues. This is not just a FB game anymore with post-season consequences, it’s a hatefest that divides ND with it’s own ‘Mason-Dixon Line’. According to a 1975 Fargo Forum article: the two schools broke off all athletic ties for brief periods in 1903 and 1907 because the rivalry became so intense. That was over 100 years ago!!! It’s been six years since the Bison have played the Sioux. Give it two more years to settle down and for UND to ‘learn the ropes’ and get used to this level of competition. NDSU, UND and their respective fans aren’t going anywhere as you can see, so give it a little more time! These two schools will play again someday! We don’t need to tell them when.
Thank you.
Joe Spencer (not real name, but drunken alter-ego)
Bismarck, ND
NDSU alum (UND hockey fan :hide: )
*I plan on sending this to the committee members. Comments, suggestions, donations to the Joe Spencer fund (increments of twenty only! ;) )