The Festering Sore of Finding a Quarterback

[CaBisonFan]

In the veer days, we recruited an exceptional athlete/leader to run the offense...a kid that played QB in high school but didn't fit the mold of most other programs. So with our reputation, and with the type of athlete we wanted, the pickings were relatively easy. I would say that players like Bentrim & Simdorn were athletes that could have played in DI at another position...but they wanted to play QB. The mentality of the entire offense was different. Receivers blocked, or they didn't play. We controlled the ball.

When we went up to DI-AA, with a passing offense, we narrowed the field of potential recruits, needing a higher-caliber passer...while at the same time, the field of competing universities for that 'special' QB broadened. Hell...historically...we've hosted dozens of great passers, and had most for lunch.

In my 'not so humble' opinion...we either go to the spread, or go back in time. Our offense is not helping recruiting. Passers like the spread...period.

Me...I'd call in Voigtlander and tell him..."here's the ball...start practicing your passing...here's the play book...you have four downs most of the time...control the ball...use your head & competitiveness...run when you want...pitch when you want...pull back and throw when the 'D' is cheating up...and let's roll." I'd run him in an option offense, and switch to the spread once in a while to change things up. I'd give the ball to the best 'gamer' that we have on the roster. That would be Voigtlander. He's a hell of an athlete...and better than that, a hell of a competitor. Don't care if he's ever played QB. But if Mertens is going to play, get him into the spread.

Sorry folks...but I've gotten sick of this shit. The Bison deserve better. We lucked out with Steve Walker. This shouldn't be a crap-shoot. Let's play some damn football...and put a 'leader' behind center. How many 'real' leaders have we had at QB over the past couple of decades...you know...the period of time where we haven't had a home playoff game? Hmmmmmmmm? Unfortunately, the 'one' that we've had didn't get to because of NCAA stupidity. That's right........'ONE.'

[Gully]

As much fun as that was in the 80s, it won't work anymore, the game has changed. I know it's frustrating but we'll get good QBs. I wish we'd take the big kid from SD, for once we'd have a QB with some size.

[CaBisonFan]

As much fun as that was in the 80s, it won't work anymore, the game has changed. I know it's frustrating but we'll get good QBs. I wish we'd take the big kid from SD, for once we'd have a QB with some size.

The heyday of the West Coast was in the 80s. It has been solved. Steve Walker was houdini, and he knew how to use all of the options.

The spread gives room for option running, and utilizes athleticism...which we have. Teams with less talent are able to play with us because we level the field for them.

I agree about the kid from SD. Too much attention has been paid to Westendorp. As good as he may be, it's pretty obvious that we haven't been aggressive with some of the guys down the list a ways. It's called having your eggs in one basket.

But I have a question gully: Did last year's offense work?

It would be fun again...with some variations on the theme.

[NDSUstudent]

Run the spread? High School's around here don't run it, so we would have to greatly extend our recruiting area. Switching from a power running offense may also prove very painful(See Minnesota).

[rutlandbison]

Run the spread? High School's around here don't run it, so we would have to greatly extend our recruiting area. Switching from a power running offense may also prove very painful(See Minnesota).

This is true. The midwest is not built for the spread, we're "meat and potatoes", run it down your throat type of players. These are the majority of the players your going to find. We would have to get a tone of speed from Texas, Florida, California and elswhere and would loose touch with the local schools.

[Tatanka]

Basketball on turf: Meh.


That is all.

[CaBisonFan]

Basketball on turf: Meh.


That is all.


What do we have now? How many good running opportunities did Tyler really get last fall?

The West Coast is a horizontal game that absolutely requires a West Coast QB. Have you seen one lately?

[CaBisonFan]

This is true. The midwest is not built for the spread, we're "meat and potatoes", run it down your throat type of players. These are the majority of the players your going to find. We would have to get a tone of speed from Texas, Florida, California and elswhere and would loose touch with the local schools.

Which is a part of my point. The West Coast requires similar athleticism. It DEMANDS a West Coast QB. Where is he? Are North Dakota schools playing the West Coast? If so, where are the QB recruits from the area?

How many outstanding field leaders have we had since the passing game came to town? Not stats. Outstanding QB's that have led us to excellence?

I could count it on my left pinky.

[Tatanka]

What do we have now? How many good running opportunities did Tyler really get last fall?

The West Coast is a horizontal game that absolutely requires a West Coast QB. Have you seen one lately?

I understand your point of view, but again I say meh to your idea.
No offense meant, I just don't like the spread offense.

[rutlandbison]

Which is a part of my point. The West Coast requires similar athleticism. It DEMANDS a West Coast QB. Where is he? Are North Dakota schools playing the West Coast? If so, where are the QB recruits from the area?

How many outstanding field leaders have we had since the passing game came to town? Not stats. Outstanding QB's that have led us to excellence?

I could count it on my left pinky.

So what is the protypical west coast QB?

[NDSUstudent]

Which is a part of my point. The West Coast requires similar athleticism. It DEMANDS a West Coast QB. Where is he? Are North Dakota schools playing the West Coast? If so, where are the QB recruits from the area?

Schools in this region pump out power west coast OL, FB, RB and TEs. Quality FBs, RBs, and TEs are the staple of the West Coast. For the spread you need a multitude of great recievers and this area does not have that. You also need multiple great QBs since you are putting them more at risk by using them to run the ball. In the end I think we are better off just looking for that one great west coast QB every year.

[rutlandbison]

Which is a part of my point. The West Coast requires similar athleticism. It DEMANDS a West Coast QB. Where is he? Are North Dakota schools playing the West Coast? If so, where are the QB recruits from the area?

How many outstanding field leaders have we had since the passing game came to town? Not stats. Outstanding QB's that have led us to excellence?

I could count it on my left pinky.

Also ND schools aren't running the spread. there still hammerin away with the run game 30 to 40 times a game. So what do you suggest, forget about ND, MN, and SD players and just recruit the states with speed. Lose touch with the fan ase and young players and lose some quality guys other teams in our conference. What has NDSU been known for. RUN THE BALL!!!! I don't think NDSU will ever go spread just because of the geographic location.

[CaBisonFan]

Run the spread? High School's around here don't run it, so we would have to greatly extend our recruiting area. Switching from a power running offense may also prove very painful(See Minnesota).

Power running offense? You mean the one that got stuffed up our rear end last year?

[CaBisonFan]

I understand your point of view, but again I say meh to your idea.
No offense meant, I just don't like the spread offense.

I don't like it either...but our 'target' quarterback recruits apparently do.

[*Bisonrube]

Power running offense? You mean the one that got stuffed up our rear end last year?

We really shouldn't throw out something that didn't work under Mertens last year. I hear what you are saying...I think we can expand the WCO playbook with a good QB. The run was stuffed because we couldn't pass...and a spread would have helped because of our poor QB play. I just don't want to scrap what has been so effective in the past years because we are trying to make this QB successful.

Go BISON!!

[CaBisonFan]

Also ND schools aren't running the spread. there still hammerin away with the run game 30 to 40 times a game. So what do you suggest, forget about ND, MN, and SD players and just recruit the states with speed. Lose touch with the fan ase and young players and lose some quality guys other teams in our conference. What has NDSU been known for. RUN THE BALL!!!! I don't think NDSU will ever go spread just because of the geographic location.

You said it. Run the ball.

The West Coast is a horizontal passing offense that uses dink passes to set up the run. Actually, the short passes are like running plays. When you don't have a West Coast QB...you can't set up the running game.

What's a prototypical West Coast QB you say? A mobile, creative, heady, quick, leader...one that can check off at the line with ease, throw the ball with touch in a way that is very catchable, to the perfect spot, at the perfect time, to one of 3 or 4 options within the routes. In other words...a coach on the field.

The physical aspect (size) of a West Coast QB is down the list as far as priorities. It was designed for what I've described. It was built around Joe Montana...a somewhat slightly-built wizard who threw perhaps the most catchable ball in history.

Steve Walker had the qualities of a prototypical West Coaster.

Since most people have written off Jose Mohler because of his small build, etc...then we could assume that we don't have a QB for the offense that we run.

Mertens doesn't fit. He's an outstanding athlete, but he's a square peg in a round hole.

Hopefully...Brent Vigen can solve some of this. Maybe he can create a hybrid offense that fits Nick better. Too much has been put on Nick.

[BisonNolesFan77]

What do we have now? How many good running opportunities did Tyler really get last fall?

The West Coast is a horizontal game that absolutely requires a West Coast QB. Have you seen one lately?

The lack of opportunties for Tyler last fall was so, so much more than just the West Coast...Predictable, Lack of Respect for the QB/Passing Game, its easy to cut down running lanes when you have a QB who cant go through his reads, recievers dropping the ball, and at times a sieve for a OL.

[stevdock]

FYI there are a few local schools that run the spread. West Fargo has been running it for quite a while, and did it with both Tyler and the kid that went to NDSCS and UNO.

[rutlandbison]

You said it. Run the ball.

The West Coast is a horizontal passing offense that uses dink passes to set up the run. Actually, the short passes are like running plays. When you don't have a West Coast QB...you can't set up the running game.

What's a prototypical West Coast QB you say? A mobile, creative, heady, quick, leader...one that can check off at the line with ease, throw the ball with touch in a way that is very catchable, to the perfect spot, at the perfect time, to one of 3 or 4 options within the routes. In other words...a coach on the field.

The physical aspect (size) of a West Coast QB is down the list as far as priorities. It was designed for what I've described. It was built around Joe Montana...a somewhat slightly-built wizard who threw perhaps the most catchable ball in history.

Steve Walker had the qualities of a prototypical West Coaster.

Since most people have written off Jose Mohler because of his small build, etc...then we could assume that we don't have a QB for the offense that we run.

Mertens doesn't fit. He's an outstanding athlete, but he's a square peg in a round hole.

Hopefully...Brent Vigen can solve some of this. Maybe he can create a hybrid offense that fits Nick better. Too much has been put on Nick.
I think you just explained the QB that everybody likes. Who's written off Jose Mohler. Last everybody was calling for him to come and around the 5th or 6th game, that doesn't sound like writing him off.

[BisonNeil]

So, if I understand you correctly CaBF, you think the reason Bohl et al have not been successful in recruiting a QB is because of the offense they run? Not because they haven't tried to recruit a QB, right? Is this your opinion despite the fact that he admitted in his interview with Hallstrom that they "learned a little bit of a lesson this year"; that they need to recruit a QB EVERY year. Which very strongly suggests, and is as close as you would get the CEO to admit, they haven't recruited a QB every year. Which means if you only try once every three years to recruit a QB you might actually run into difficulty in recruiting the QB you want in the 1 of 3 years you want one. It's all in the probabilities you know.

But hey, if you think its the WC offense that is the problem rather than a strategic error in recruiting philosophy in the past by Bohl and Co., knock yourself out. You are definitely entitled to your opinion.

For me, I think the WC works, but I do think you have to make a conscious effort to identify potential QBs that fit the system every year, not just in a year when you are good and damn ready to do so after your offense implodes. But hey, that's just me, and I'm not really entitled to express my opinion around here, so I'll stop now.

[Jdubs21]

Everyone putting down our running game of last year...jsut remember that it actually was very good considering they had 8+ guys in the box because they knew we had a horrible qb and we were a 1 dimensional offense, put a half decent qb behind center we dont need to change our offense, if mertens was half the player walker was we would been a 1 loss team last year, so quit thinkin we need to change our entire offense how bout we just Go get a decent qb or qb's and change this program into a contender again

[MontBison]

Ok Ca i'll play along....let's say we do switch to the spread, WHO IN GOD'S NAME WOULD HE THROW IT TOOO! So we find a qb now you have to get 6 or 7 capable wide outs. So instead of looking for one or two players a year we now need to find 3 or 4 players.

[rutlandbison]

Ok Ca i'll play along....let's say we do switch to the spread, WHO IN GOD'S NAME WOULD HE THROW IT TOOO! So we find a qb now you have to get 6 or 7 capable wide outs. So instead of looking for one or two players a year we now need to find 3 or 4 players.

And what would happen to our TE's we have now. They are seldom used in the spread. I agree with you MontBison.

[BisonNeil]

Ok Ca i'll play along....let's say we do switch to the spread, WHO IN GOD'S NAME WOULD HE THROW IT TOOO! So we find a qb now you have to get 6 or 7 capable wide outs. So instead of looking for one or two players a year we now need to find 3 or 4 players.

Good one!

WR, another stellar position for recruiting by Bohl. After Heck, name one WR you feel has been really solid at that position? Don't give me Belquist, one career TD and as many dropped balls this year as catches. Name one.

Your right Mont, the spread is largely a pitch and catch game, except for those that run the spread option, but even most of those teams toss the ball to capable receivers.

[NDSUstudent]

And what would happen to our TE's we have now. They are seldom used in the spread. I agree with you MontBison.

Yep, and don't forget about our FBs. Just think about how big a guy like Jangula was for us and in a spread we would have no use for him.

[CaBisonFan]

You guys are right about our talent at fullback, tight end, etc.

I didn't mean that our running game was no good. When there's 8 in the box on almost every play, and one or two guys assigned to shadowing Tyler...it ain't gonna work. God...that was frustrating to watch.

We may be getting to something here. Play calling. I still think that Nick was put in a really bad spot.

OK...I see all of your points. Some good stuff.

Question: Are we recruiting a lot of QB's that have played the spread in high school? Does anybody know?

[BadlandsBison]

Sorry for dragging out the offensive philosophy debate, but neither richmond or montana ran the spread. The bison can win a lot of games controlling the ball with the run. Our problem...we need to complete a pass once in awhile when 9 guys are at the LOS. We were a legit contender 2 and 3 years ago, so dont panic yet

[CaBisonFan]

Ok Ca i'll play along....let's say we do switch to the spread, WHO IN GOD'S NAME WOULD HE THROW IT TOOO! So we find a qb now you have to get 6 or 7 capable wide outs. So instead of looking for one or two players a year we now need to find 3 or 4 players.

The receivers and running backs. They would be my first choice. :D

[CaBisonFan]

Sorry for dragging out the offensive philosophy debate, but neither richmond or montana ran the spread. The bison can win a lot of games controlling the ball with the run. Our problem...we need to complete a pass once in awhile when 9 guys are at the LOS. We were a legit contender 2 and 3 years ago, so dont panic yet

It's a good point. I'm just really frustrated with the over-all quarterback recruiting situation.

[BadlandsBison]

It's a good point. I'm just really frustrated with the over-all quarterback recruiting situation.

I know what ya mean. Im gettin a litte nervous here:hide: i just wanna take a time machine to signing day and get this over with:confused:

[RunDMc34]

I think our biggest problem was that we couldnt complete a pass over the middle to save our lives, unless of course we were trying to complete it to guys wearing colors like Red, Blue, Maroon, etc...

This pretty much completely limited us to throwing to the sideline. So people were able to sneak their safeties up into the box way too often and completely stuff our running game. Even the best teams have trouble running against 8-9 in the box.

We will need some creativity in the offense this season for sure but I really dont feel the need for a complete overhaul. Also you can put me in the group that isnt really worried about the QB recruit situation yet either.

[MontBison]

Nervous about what? So we don't get a qb this year, then we get one next year. I'm rollin with Lakes on this one lets all get behind Jose and pray to god for the best.

[HerdBot]

The term "West Coast" is so vague. All it means is you do lots of short horizontal passes because the theory is a 4 yard passs is just as good as a 4 yard run and that will soften up the defense to open up the running game.Those elements will never die as it is a staple in any football team

I don't think the West Coast has been solved. Green Bay ran it in 2007 w/Favre and they had the #2 offense in the NFL behind the Patriots and made it to the NFC Championship game. They ran it again with Aaron Rogers and they were ranked #5! Plenty of other NFL teams still run it. All teams run a variation of it including the Vikings.

West Coast Offense: San Fran won 5 Superbowls - Shanahan and Denver won 2 Superbowls - Mike Holmgren won a Superbowl in Green Bay and got the Seahawks to the Superbowl. John Gruden won a Superbowl in Tampa and got Oakland to Superbowl running the West Coast.

I never thought of us as a true West Coast team anyway because we're a power running team. Roehl only caught 13 passes last year


In the veer days, we recruited an exceptional athlete/leader to run the offense...a kid that played QB in high school but didn't fit the mold of most other programs. So with our reputation, and with the type of athlete we wanted, the pickings were relatively easy. I would say that players like Bentrim & Simdorn were athletes that could have played in DI at another position...but they wanted to play QB. The mentality of the entire offense was different. Receivers blocked, or they didn't play. We controlled the ball.

When we went up to DI-AA, with a passing offense, we narrowed the field of potential recruits, needing a higher-caliber passer...while at the same time, the field of competing universities for that 'special' QB broadened. Hell...historically...we've hosted dozens of great passers, and had most for lunch.

In my 'not so humble' opinion...we either go to the spread, or go back in time. Our offense is not helping recruiting. Passers like the spread...period.

Me...I'd call in Voigtlander and tell him..."here's the ball...start practicing your passing...here's the play book...you have four downs most of the time...control the ball...use your head & competitiveness...run when you want...pitch when you want...pull back and throw when the 'D' is cheating up...and let's roll." I'd run him in an option offense, and switch to the spread once in a while to change things up. I'd give the ball to the best 'gamer' that we have on the roster. That would be Voigtlander. He's a hell of an athlete...and better than that, a hell of a competitor. Don't care if he's ever played QB. But if Mertens is going to play, get him into the spread.

Sorry folks...but I've gotten sick of this shit. The Bison deserve better. We lucked out with Steve Walker. This shouldn't be a crap-shoot. Let's play some damn football...and put a 'leader' behind center. How many 'real' leaders have we had at QB over the past couple of decades...you know...the period of time where we haven't had a home playoff game? Hmmmmmmmm? Unfortunately, the 'one' that we've had didn't get to because of NCAA stupidity. That's right........'ONE.'

[Gully]

We suffered last year because of poor QB play, not because we had the wrong offense.

Also, ours involves more power running than a lot of West Coast offenses. I prefer the term Midwest Coast Offense.

[OldBison]

Nervous about what? So we don't get a qb this year, then we get one next year. I'm rollin with Lakes on this one lets all get behind Jose and pray to god for the best.

I can't agree with you, sorry. And I don't like Lakes' "Mertens in 2009, Mohler in 2010-2012 philosophy". It did not work in the former case and there is no evidence that it will work in the second case, not yet anyway.

Under no circumstance or situatioin have I ever been very fond of the 'place all your eggs into one basket' philosophy which is what Bohl's recruiting philosophy has been at the QB spot. Simply recruiting a single QB and handing the reins to them, i.e., Mertens and then Mohler, seems to be a risky business proposition. He does it for no other position. Just look how many DL & TE he has accumulated this year, for example.

Pick any consistently successful FBS or FCS football program, go to their website and check out their roster. I have done that many, many times and have yet to see so few recruits. What you will see a continuous influx of QB talent so that one player isn't simply given the starting job after waiting in the wings but they have to earn the job after competing with a number of players. You occasionally find a year without a recruit, but not often. You will NEVER see a situation where there are only 2 recruits in a 5 year period, which is what NDSU will have if they wait to get one next year as you suggest (Mertens-2005, none in 2006 and 2007, Mohler in 2008, none in 2009). I cannot imagine thinking that it is okay to sign only 2 recruits in five years, it is simply unfathomable to me.

If you chose Bohl's route you have to be pretty certain you are going to be 100% right in the one recruit you get and you have to be damn confident that the player you choose to simply hand the reins over isn't going to get hurt and you have to be comfortable pulling plays out of the playbook so you don't run those that could cause injury, like Bohl admitted they did this year.

Nope, I think it is necessary to get a QB recruit every year or nearly every year and it is critical to do better than 2 recruits every five years. The current Bohl system of QB recruiting is broke and does need fixing, in my view anyway.

[Kermit]

I think our biggest problem was that we couldnt complete a pass over the middle to save our lives, unless of course we were trying to complete it to guys wearing colors like Red, Blue, Maroon, etc...


I agree, and I think the receiving corps was part of the problem (the quarterback problem was obvious to all). In my opinion, Belquist and Wurzbacher had disappointing seasons. Heckendorf was less than 100% physically for much of the year.

Hallstrom had an interesting comment in his blog about a particular HS receiver that the Bison did not offer, possibly because of a perceived lack of toughness. Toughness and courage are essential attributes of good receivers, especially in a West Coast style offense.

[Bison Dan]

I can't agree with you, sorry. And I don't like Lakes' "Mertens in 2009, Mohler in 2010-2012 philosophy". It did not work in the former case and there is no evidence that it will work in the second case, not yet anyway.

Under no circumstance or situatioin have I ever been very fond of the 'place all your eggs into one basket' philosophy which is what Bohl's recruiting philosophy has been at the QB spot. Simply recruiting a single QB and handing the reins to them, i.e., Mertens and then Mohler, seems to be a risky business proposition. He does it for no other position. Just look how many DL & TE he has accumulated this year, for example.

Pick any consistently successful FBS or FCS football program, go to their website and check out their roster. I have done that many, many times and have yet to see so few recruits. What you will see a continuous influx of QB talent so that one player isn't simply given the starting job after waiting in the wings but they have to earn the job after competing with a number of players. You occasionally find a year without a recruit, but not often. You will NEVER see a situation where there are only 2 recruits in a 5 year period, which is what NDSU will have if they wait to get one next year as you suggest (Mertens-2005, none in 2006 and 2007, Mohler in 2008, none in 2009). I cannot imagine thinking that it is okay to sign only 2 recruits in five years, it is simply unfathomable to me.

If you chose Bohl's route you have to be pretty certain you are going to be 100% right in the one recruit you get and you have to be damn confident that the player you choose to simply hand the reins over isn't going to get hurt and you have to be comfortable pulling plays out of the playbook so you don't run those that could cause injury, like Bohl admitted they did this year.

Nope, I think it is necessary to get a QB recruit every year or nearly every year and it is critical to do better than 2 recruits every five years. The current Bohl system of QB recruiting is broke and does need fixing, in my view anyway.

I'm sure they would've taken a qb those years if they found one that they thought could help the team. Do you really think Coach Bohl over looks qb's?

[IzzyFlexion]

The lack of opportunties for Tyler last fall was so, so much more than just the West Coast...Predictable, Lack of Respect for the QB/Passing Game, its easy to cut down running lanes when you have a QB who cant go through his reads, recievers dropping the ball, and at times a sieve for a OL.

This is the best and most concise summary I've seen in awhile. (tying in the running game with the accompanying offensive deficits)
At the beginning of the year everyone was so excited to see how Roehl's senior year would evolve. Huge expectations for big games running up and down the field with reckless abandon.
But ankle sprain or not, the result was far less than hoped. Why......?????
No need to repeat BisonNolesFan77's words. They say it all.

[OldBison]

I'm sure they would've taken a qb those years if they found one that they thought could help the team. Do you really think Coach Bohl over looks qb's?

Good question, I honestly don't know, but how do you interpret his statement to Hallstrom during the interview when asked about the QB position:

"I think we learned a little bit of a lesson that we need to recruit a QB every year".

What do you think he meant by that? I already said what I think it means, but I am open to other interpretations.

[tcbison]

Good question, I honestly don't know, but how do you interpret his statement to Hallstrom during the interview when asked about the QB position:

"I think we learned a little bit of a lesson that we need to recruit a QB every year".

What do you think he meant by that? I already said what I think it means, but I am open to other interpretations.

The thing I really don't like is that at one point Coach Bohl said the QB is the most important player on the field. If that is the case then you need to spend more time and effort getting a QB recruited. Period.

[SDbison]

The thing I really don't like is that at one point Coach Bohl said the QB is the most important player on the field. If that is the case then you need to spend more time and effort getting a QB recruited. Period.
I agree 100% with you tc! What is the problem with the coaches ability to recruit QB's? Here we are again scraping bottom trying to find and secure a QB. NDSU should be a very desirable place to play football so why is this so difficult. Maybe the coaches are not working hard enough in this area? SDSU seems to have no problem finding QB's.

[Wacker_in_the_Hall]

The thing I really don't like is that at one point Coach Bohl said the QB is the most important player on the field. If that is the case then you need to spend more time and effort getting a QB recruited. Period.


What makes you think he is not spending time and effort?

[tcbison]

What makes you think he is not spending time and effort?

I never said he was not spending time and effort. I said you need to spend more time and effort if the QB is the most important player on the field like Coach Bohl has said. Do you get it?

[Kermit]

It may be time for that sore to start healing:
http://www.areavoices.com/bisonmedia/?blog=41555


NDSU is in Waupaca, Wisconsin today offering Brock Jensen the QB there...I talked with Brock yesterday and he told me that he would likely verbal today.

[BadlandsBison]

It may be time for that sore to start healing:
http://www.areavoices.com/bisonmedia/?blog=41555

Alright! Ill be watching for the official nod! Thanks Kermit

[silkamilkamonico]

I'm a little curious on what's happening with the QB position as well. I like the idea that Bohl has players he wants to bring in probably for depth and stability, and othe rplayers he wants to bring in that could be studs. I hope he addresses the situation like that every year.

If we have depth at most levels, I believe it gives him the oppurtunity to throw out those offers to the QB's that he believes could be special.

[MontBison]

This is what I don't understand though. Why sign a qb who was our 3rd option and may never see the field. There IS a reason why he was not our FIRST choice. So why sign someone who may lack the talent just to keep people quite.

[steelbison]

I agree 100% with you tc! What is the problem with the coaches ability to recruit QB's? Here we are again scraping bottom trying to find and secure a QB. NDSU should be a very desirable place to play football so why is this so difficult. Maybe the coaches are not working hard enough in this area? SDSU seems to have no problem finding QB's.


How do you know were scraping bottom??? According to your great wisdom??? Give me a break..I am so tired of people thinking they know more than this coaching staff. Who says they cant' recruit a top QB??? That has yet to be proven. Mertens has all the tools to be a very good QB..just didn't work out that way. We know nothing about Mohler...Unless you know more than the coaching staff which by your posts you think you do..

[steelbison]

This is what I don't understand though. Why sign a qb who was our 3rd option and may never see the field. There IS a reason why he was not our FIRST choice. So why sign someone who may lack the talent just to keep people quite.


You think they would offer someone a scholarship to keep people quiet??? You can't be serious??? Just because someone wasn't our first option doesn't mean he can't play...

AJ was a great prospect.. would have been a tremendous get..didn't work out...Jensen is no slouch...Have you seen him play?? How would you know how capable he was??

Again someone else that knows more than coaches who spend so much time breaking down these players...

[MontBison]

Ok quiet was maybe the wrong word, so the guy can play and I hope he exceeds however like I said there is a reason he was our third option that is all. It's not about A.J or that guy from AZ its just the simple fact that he was our BAILOUT plan.

[AEBison1998]

Here are the stats on our man. I don't think this counts the playoff games but I'm not sure.

http://wsd.waupaca.k12.wi.us/whs/sports/Football/waustats08.htm

[KilldeerBison]

Ok quiet was maybe the wrong word, so the guy can play and I hope he exceeds however like I said there is a reason he was our third option that is all. It's not about A.J or that guy from AZ its just the simple fact that he was our BAILOUT plan.

Looks like he had about a 66% completion percentage, only 2 Int's out of 97 attempts, about 1,00 yards passing, over 700 yards rushing, averaged 6.7 yards per rushing attempt. With stats like that, all I can say is I hope Obama's bailout is half as good. Looks pretty solid to me, I'll take this BAILOUT.

[silkamilkamonico]

Ok quiet was maybe the wrong word, so the guy can play and I hope he exceeds however like I said there is a reason he was our third option that is all. It's not about A.J or that guy from AZ its just the simple fact that he was our BAILOUT plan.

Because we can't go another season without signing anyone.

Our first two options aren't likely. You want to go through yet another season without signing a QB recruit? I don't think Bohl can afford doing that, considering.

[rutlandbison]

Here's someone to throw to
http://footballrecruiting.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?Sport=1&pr_key=89073

[BisonNolesFan77]

Here's someone to throw to
http://footballrecruiting.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?Sport=1&pr_key=89073

Nice find! What is that, WR #4 this year? I could see a few more players added to this class, CB and a MLB come to mind first. I would also really like to see another OL...I think there may be a few left to come from out of state...

[SirHinn]

Ok quiet was maybe the wrong word, so the guy can play and I hope he exceeds however like I said there is a reason he was our third option that is all. It's not about A.J or that guy from AZ its just the simple fact that he was our BAILOUT plan.

Just out of curiousity, so you talked to Craig Bohl and he told you that Brock was the third option for the QB's they were recruiting? Who's to say this QB didn't have the same grade as the other two? Way too much speculation in regards to that, I'll trust Craig Bohl in his recruiting.

[MontBison]

Am I suppose to be impressed with the fact he threw for 1,000 yards?:smh:

[BisonNolesFan77]

Am I suppose to be impressed with the fact he threw for 1,000 yards?:smh:

When you are averaging almost 7.1 YPC, and outscore your opp. 335-59 there is not a whole lot of need to put the ball in the air too much...

Just my take, his H.S. team had 3437 yards of total offense, he accounted for 1709 yards himself, just under 50%...46 TD's, 24 were from his arm or feet...I will take that...only time will tell though.

[SirHinn]

Am I suppose to be impressed with the fact he threw for 1,000 yards?:smh:

Nick Mertens was the player of the year in Minnesota, threw for 2500 yards, and 36 touchdowns his senior year, how's that panning out for him? Hate to break your heart, but high school stats doesn't really translate for how players will pan out on the next level.

[NDSU1980]

Nick Mertens was the player of the year in Minnesota, threw for 2500 yards, and 36 touchdowns his senior year, how's that panning out for him? Hate to break your heart, but high school stats doesn't really translate for how players will pan out on the next level.

Actually, HS stats do count and should be considered. Mertens problem was that the defenders down field always know before the receivers find out who he is throwing to.

[OldBison]

Hate to break your heart, but high school stats doesn't really translate for how players will pan out on the next level.

No truer words were spoken, that is the argument for having a recruit every year so there is a talent pool to compete and choose from.

If anyone doubts SirHinn's words, then you need to read Stewart Mandel's analysis of the 2005 FBS recruiting class which included some big time much heralded recruits.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/stewart_mandel/01/26/05-qb-class/index.html

[CaBisonFan]

I can't agree with you, sorry. And I don't like Lakes' "Mertens in 2009, Mohler in 2010-2012 philosophy". It did not work in the former case and there is no evidence that it will work in the second case, not yet anyway.

Under no circumstance or situatioin have I ever been very fond of the 'place all your eggs into one basket' philosophy which is what Bohl's recruiting philosophy has been at the QB spot. Simply recruiting a single QB and handing the reins to them, i.e., Mertens and then Mohler, seems to be a risky business proposition. He does it for no other position. Just look how many DL & TE he has accumulated this year, for example.

Pick any consistently successful FBS or FCS football program, go to their website and check out their roster. I have done that many, many times and have yet to see so few recruits. What you will see a continuous influx of QB talent so that one player isn't simply given the starting job after waiting in the wings but they have to earn the job after competing with a number of players. You occasionally find a year without a recruit, but not often. You will NEVER see a situation where there are only 2 recruits in a 5 year period, which is what NDSU will have if they wait to get one next year as you suggest (Mertens-2005, none in 2006 and 2007, Mohler in 2008, none in 2009). I cannot imagine thinking that it is okay to sign only 2 recruits in five years, it is simply unfathomable to me.

If you chose Bohl's route you have to be pretty certain you are going to be 100% right in the one recruit you get and you have to be damn confident that the player you choose to simply hand the reins over isn't going to get hurt and you have to be comfortable pulling plays out of the playbook so you don't run those that could cause injury, like Bohl admitted they did this year.

Nope, I think it is necessary to get a QB recruit every year or nearly every year and it is critical to do better than 2 recruits every five years. The current Bohl system of QB recruiting is broke and does need fixing, in my view anyway.

I like what your basic point is here OldBison...about getting enough guys in so that you can see which one (or a couple) actually turn out.

To me, it's a lot like drafting pitchers in the majors. It is an incredibly imperfect science. Too many factors to list...but I think that you need to go after a blue-chip player, and 2 or 3 guys that aren't as highly touted...and maybe even ask a couple of local guys to walk on. Not a pitcher, obviously, but wasn't Kirby Puckett drafted something like in the 397th round?? :D

There have been a lot of good comments here. Good discussion guys.

Does anyone know the answer to this: Was Steve Walker considered a big catch when we recruited him? Seriously

[BisonNolesFan77]

No truer words were spoken, that is the argument for having a recruit every year so there is a talent pool to compete and choose from.

If anyone doubts SirHinn's words, then you need to read Stewart Mandel's analysis of the 2005 FBS recruiting class which included some big time much heralded recruits.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/stewart_mandel/01/26/05-qb-class/index.html

I agree 100%...the QB position is impossible to predict, I think Bohl and company found that out this season. You just never know how he will develop once he gets in the program. A QB every year is a must...

On a side not, one thing I like about Brock, he has lead his team to a State Championship...that is one thing you cannot teach a kid, the will and leadership to win. Hopefully that continues in his college career...

[CaBisonFan]

I agree 100%...the QB position is impossible to predict, I think Bohl and company found that out this season. You just never know how he will develop once he gets in the program. A QB every year is a must...

On a side not, one thing I like about Brock, he has lead his team to a State Championship...that is one thing you cannot teach a kid, the will and leadership to win. Hopefully that continues in his college career...

Dumb question, but is Brock a possibility yet for us? And I agree with your point about not being able to teach winning.

I'm a walking John Wooden encyclopedia...another one of my obsessions...but he recruited players than led winning teams. He called the opposing coaches for their opinions...and some of the most talented LA players weren't brought in simply because of stats. He said that he didn't recruit the best players. He recruited players that would make the best team. Must have been rough...because he had players calling him, begging to come and play.

[BisonNolesFan77]

Dumb question, but is Brock a possibility yet for us? And I agree with your point about not being able to teach winning.

I'm a walking John Wooden encyclopedia...another one of my obsessions...but he recruited players than led winning teams. He called the opposing coaches for their opinions...and some of the most talented LA players weren't brought in simply because of stats. He said that he didn't recruit the best players. He recruited players that would make the best team. Must have been rough...because he had players calling him, begging to come and play.

According to Hallstrom on the media blog, the staff was in his hometown to offer him, and that from Brock's own mouth that he would likely verbal.

You cant argue with anything John Wooden has done, the man was a winner!

[mebisonII]

I like what your basic point is here OldBison...about getting enough guys in so that you can see which one (or a couple) actually turn out.

To me, it's a lot like drafting pitchers in the majors. It is an incredibly imperfect science. Too many factors to list...but I think that you need to go after a blue-chip player, and 2 or 3 guys that aren't as highly touted...and maybe even ask a couple of local guys to walk on. Not a pitcher, obviously, but wasn't Kirby Puckett drafted something like in the 397th round?? :D

There have been a lot of good comments here. Good discussion guys.

Does anyone know the answer to this: Was Steve Walker considered a big catch when we recruited him? Seriously

I've wondered this as well :confused: Just curious, as it was before I followed the Bison closely.

[MontBison]

You figure he had to have been since he replaced Tony Staus mid-way threw his senior year when Walker was a red shirt freshman. Unless he blossmed when he came to ndsu.

[BadlandsBison]

Looks like he had about a 66% completion percentage, only 2 Int's out of 97 attempts, about 1,00 yards passing, over 700 yards rushing, averaged 6.7 yards per rushing attempt. With stats like that, all I can say is I hope Obama's bailout is half as good. Looks pretty solid to me, I'll take this BAILOUT.

I take vote Jensen over Obama

[99Bison]

I've wondered this as well :confused: Just curious, as it was before I followed the Bison closely.

He was not considered a big catch at all!

[99Bison]

You figure he had to have been since he replaced Tony Staus mid-way threw his senior year when Walker was a red shirt freshman. Unless he blossmed when he came to ndsu.

No Stauss was just that bad that year, he should have been replaced much earlier in the season when the team still had a playoff chance. The hesitation from the coaching staff to replace Stauss earlier was because Walker looked so poor in practice.

[HerdBot]

Nick Mertens was the player of the year in Minnesota, threw for 2500 yards, and 36 touchdowns his senior year, how's that panning out for him? Hate to break your heart, but high school stats doesn't really translate for how players will pan out on the next level.

Generally speaking they are a good indicator but not a guarantee. Steve Walker had some ridiculous high school stats too but I would imagine he played against some tougher competition. Also you have to look at a player and see if he's being unitlized fully.

I'm still confident Mertens will be a good QB next year because he will have depth behind him so they can unleash his RUNNING ABILITY! He did rush for 20 TD's his Sr year. Let's see how he progresses.

STEVE WALKER
All-time Area Passing leader and third all-time on the Illinois prep passing charts...Completed 268 of 462 passes (58 percent) for 3,981 yards and 34 TDs as a senior...Combined for 5,950 yards passing and 54 TDs over his final two seasons...

[Tatanka]

http://www.ebris.com/pix/neosporin_pain.jpg

Brock Jensen commits. Festering sore can now start the healing process.

Apply as required and call me in the morning.

[CaBisonFan]

No Stauss was just that bad that year, he should have been replaced much earlier in the season when the team still had a playoff chance. The hesitation from the coaching staff to replace Stauss earlier was because Walker looked so poor in practice.

I'd forgotten about the staff's concerns with Walker in practice. And then came the near-miss miracle at UNC.

[99Bison]

I'd forgotten about the staff's concerns with Walker in practice. And then came the near-miss miracle at UNC.

Heck, they didn't even give him the nod going in to spring practice the follow year.

[steelbison]

Generally speaking they are a good indicator but not a guarantee. Steve Walker had some ridiculous high school stats too but I would imagine he played against some tougher competition. Also you have to look at a player and see if he's being unitlized fully.

I'm still confident Mertens will be a good QB next year because he will have depth behind him so they can unleash his RUNNING ABILITY! He did rush for 20 TD's his Sr year. Let's see how he progresses.

STEVE WALKER
All-time Area Passing leader and third all-time on the Illinois prep passing charts...Completed 268 of 462 passes (58 percent) for 3,981 yards and 34 TDs as a senior...Combined for 5,950 yards passing and 54 TDs over his final two seasons...

Steve also won a state title his senion year. His coach said he was the best leader he has ever had. Didn't have a lot of Div 1 interest. Main reasons, not quick, average arm, short...Just proves you never know

[SlickVic]

In the veer days, we recruited an exceptional athlete/leader to run the offense...a kid that played QB in high school but didn't fit the mold of most other programs. So with our reputation, and with the type of athlete we wanted, the pickings were relatively easy. I would say that players like Bentrim & Simdorn were athletes that could have played in DI at another position...but they wanted to play QB. The mentality of the entire offense was different. Receivers blocked, or they didn't play. We controlled the ball.

When we went up to DI-AA, with a passing offense, we narrowed the field of potential recruits, needing a higher-caliber passer...while at the same time, the field of competing universities for that 'special' QB broadened. Hell...historically...we've hosted dozens of great passers, and had most for lunch.

In my 'not so humble' opinion...we either go to the spread, or go back in time. Our offense is not helping recruiting. Passers like the spread...period.

Me...I'd call in Voigtlander and tell him..."here's the ball...start practicing your passing...here's the play book...you have four downs most of the time...control the ball...use your head & competitiveness...run when you want...pitch when you want...pull back and throw when the 'D' is cheating up...and let's roll." I'd run him in an option offense, and switch to the spread once in a while to change things up. I'd give the ball to the best 'gamer' that we have on the roster. That would be Voigtlander. He's a hell of an athlete...and better than that, a hell of a competitor. Don't care if he's ever played QB. But if Mertens is going to play, get him into the spread.

Sorry folks...but I've gotten sick of this shit. The Bison deserve better. We lucked out with Steve Walker. This shouldn't be a crap-shoot. Let's play some damn football...and put a 'leader' behind center. How many 'real' leaders have we had at QB over the past couple of decades...you know...the period of time where we haven't had a home playoff game? Hmmmmmmmm? Unfortunately, the 'one' that we've had didn't get to because of NCAA stupidity. That's right........'ONE.'

with the weapons we have at wide out why in the world would you want vigen to run the option? were not a milatary academy...at wide out were litterally locked and loaded absolutley stockepiled at that position shultenover sidney and warren hollaway having never seen 2 of the 3 play very much or at all id take those 3 wrs over any other 3 in FCS football...the offense needs to change CA theres no doubt about it...im not to worried about it vigan all have plently of toys to play and tinker with...ive e-mailed jay paterno plenty of times believe it or not and i have thought about asking him to share some of the "spread HD" philosophy which im sure hed be more than happy to...that offense would be the perfect fit dont no if any of you fools have ever seen penn state play but what it is is a mobile quarterback (jose or maybe mertens) stud recievers (to many to name) slasher type running backs (paschall dj and voit) to go along with a beastly offensive line and tight ends who can catch the ball...we have perfect personnel to run penn states offense and whats so special about the spread HD is that there are multiple power back formations many of which are the same as what we currently run...multiple 1 back formations which are also super slick...standard shot gun and spread formations...so the offense is straight unstopable and about as balanced as you can possibley get...CA youve inspired me ima fire that e-mail off to jay pa tommoro...getcha popcorn ready ;)

[sambini]

http://www.ebris.com/pix/neosporin_pain.jpg

Brock Jensen commits. Festering sore can now start the healing process.

Apply as required and call me in the morning. +++++++++++++++++++

[IzzyFlexion]

He was not considered a big catch at all!

Steve Walker was the 2003 Chicago Tribune Athlete of the year. In a metro area of over 8 million people, I think that gives him "big catch" status.

During his Senior year:
He had ridiculously huge passing stats,
miraculous late-game comeback drives,
he had impecable in-game composure,
and, an 8A State Championship (8A Schools are the largest in the state)

Why wasn't he more heavily recruited by 1A schools.....I don't know.