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duluthbison
01-19-2009, 12:34 AM
I posted this in another thread but thought that it deserves its own topic.


What do you guys think about hockey at NDSU with the Urban Plains Center now open. We already have a great 5,000+ seat arena that just opened which would be a great home for NDSU Hockey.

After a couple of years of playing at the UPC, building a good team then maybe NDSU could push the hockey arena idea to the town and maybe this time it would pass.


As I recall back in 2000, NDSU wanted an arena before the team, but now we have an arena and I think this idea could work

Bisonguy
01-19-2009, 02:44 AM
They might take a look at it after the BB situation is taken care of, and once the Force go belly up.

duluthbison
01-19-2009, 02:48 AM
They might take a look at it after the BB situation is taken care of, and once the Force go belly up.

GASP!! Naysayer already??:hide:

I suppose it would look better if the Force were outta there

westriver bison
01-19-2009, 12:23 PM
I vote NO!!

tony
01-19-2009, 12:49 PM
The UPC schedule shows Fargo South boys, Fargo South girls, Fargo North boys, Fargo North girls, Fargo Shanley boys, and the Fargo Force all playing there. Do all those teams call the UPC home already? If so, I suppose the new Fargo high school will be showing up on the schedule some day too for both boys and girls. That's a lot of schedules to juggle.

duluthbison
01-19-2009, 05:26 PM
As far as I know, all of Fargo High Schools play in that arena including the Force. But there is a plan in place to add 4 more sheets of ice to the UPC which they are going to call their tournament facility. I think that when that gets built, there will be more room to add NDSU hockey there.

NDSUstudent
01-19-2009, 08:01 PM
I like hockey but I don't even see it coming to NDSU. There are just way too many things standing in the way, and honestly I think the school is better off investing its money into the basketball programs.

beatle76
04-16-2009, 06:00 AM
UND can go to the Frozen Four in hockey every year and nobody outside of the UND fan base will bat an eye. If NDSU makes it to the sweet sixteen in basketball once in the next 10 years then that will a big national headline. Also, I think that with 4 D1 universities in the Dakotas all of the schools in our area will be competing vigrously for the same student athletes and we need our rich alumni to give gifts for football/basketball. Throwing hockey into the mix might stretch things a little too thin in my opinion.

ndsubison1
04-16-2009, 06:47 AM
hockey at NDSU would get terrible attendance... it would be no different then baseball, soccer, and some others...

tony
04-16-2009, 06:53 AM
hockey at NDSU would get terrible attendance... it would be no different then baseball, soccer, and some others...

Well, I might think that adding hockey before the student body demands it is a terrible idea, but back in the Bob Entzion era when they first talked about building a hockey arena, I'm pretty sure they got commitments for a couple thousand season tickets.

Fact Check on Aisle 7, please! roadwarrior, hammersmith, anybody? I'm 99% confident it was over 1000 season tickets but not sure how much over. Heck, I can't even remember what the details of that old proposal was.

Hammersmith
04-16-2009, 09:07 AM
Well, I might think that adding hockey before the student body demands it is a terrible idea, but back in the Bob Entzion era when they first talked about building a hockey arena, I'm pretty sure they got commitments for a couple thousand season tickets.

Fact Check on Aisle 7, please! roadwarrior, hammersmith, anybody? I'm 99% confident it was over 1000 season tickets but not sure how much over. Heck, I can't even remember what the details of that old proposal was.

It looks like the Forum killed their online archive for 2000 and earlier when they switched software(it went back to 1994 before). Since that hockey proposal came sometime between 1997-1999, I'm out of luck with my usual source. Sorry.

tony
04-16-2009, 09:37 AM
It looks like the Forum killed their online archive for 2000 and earlier when they switched software(it went back to 1994 before). Since that hockey proposal came sometime between 1997-1999, I'm out of luck with my usual source. Sorry.

You gave me an idea - I searched the google archives.

http://news.google.com/archivesearch?q=hockey+NDSU+arena+season+tickets&um=1&ned=us&hl=en

Some of the links there indicate that back in 2000, NDSU got $135,000 in deposits on 2500 season tickets in just a couple weeks.

I do think hockey could be a money maker at NDSU if facilities were in place... but it doesn't matter to me: If the students don't support the addition enough to underwrite much of the cost, it's not going anywhere.

duluthbison
04-16-2009, 01:52 PM
You gave me an idea - I searched the google archives.

http://news.google.com/archivesearch?q=hockey+NDSU+arena+season+tickets&um=1&ned=us&hl=en

Some of the links there indicate that back in 2000, NDSU got $135,000 in deposits on 2500 season tickets in just a couple weeks.

I do think hockey could be a money maker at NDSU if facilities were in place... but it doesn't matter to me: If the students don't support the addition enough to underwrite much of the cost, it's not going anywhere.

The issue however has not been brought up to the student body at all. I know many people who would love to see hockey on campus but the administration needs to move on it first, then have the positive backing of the student body.

tony
04-16-2009, 03:13 PM
The issue however has not been brought up to the student body at all. I know many people who would love to see hockey on campus but the administration needs to move on it first, then have the positive backing of the student body.

I know what you are saying but don't agree.

If the student body really wants hockey, they are going to have to get the ball rolling because the administration has already made their position clear.

Adminstration says no to hockey + x = Administration says, "OK, we'll take a harder look at hockey"

I don't the "x" in this equation is "Student body waits for administration to have a change of heart."

bisonballs33
04-16-2009, 07:33 PM
hockey at NDSU would get terrible attendance... it would be no different then baseball, soccer, and some others...

The NDSU Club team right now draws far better than soccer and slightly better than baseball.

17>1
04-16-2009, 07:58 PM
Here we go again...

KC Bison
07-03-2009, 04:19 PM
Nickle one shouldn't be spent on hockey until a new basketball facility is built. BTW the future of expansion in hockey is in DII schools.

North Side
07-03-2009, 08:11 PM
Nickle one shouldn't be spent on hockey until a new basketball facility is built.

Well said!!!! end of story!

bisoneer
04-04-2010, 03:46 AM
Give it a shot, why not at the UPC?

99Bison
04-04-2010, 06:11 AM
Oh man not again... (insert graphic here).

The crib version so we can be done with this thread:
- It's expensive to have, specifically especially considering the title 9 requirements.
- Won't even be on the potentially think about radar until several other athletic facilities and situations are handled at NDSU.

sambini
04-04-2010, 06:17 AM
Give it a shot, why not at the UPC?

U pay for it and womens hockey.

ndsubison1
04-04-2010, 06:20 AM
if it werent for womens hockey we would prolly have a mens team

Bison"FANatic"
04-04-2010, 12:38 PM
Oh man not again... (insert graphic here).

The crib version so we can be done with this thread:
- It's expensive to have, specifically especially considering the title 9 requirements.
- Won't even be on the potentially think about radar until several other athletic facilities and situations are handled at NDSU.

Ding Ding Ding

Not going to happen. End of story. Most would rather stick money into football and basketball. In this day in age with budgets already tight why put a noose around your neck with womens hockey and for that matter mens hockey.

bisonballs33
04-07-2010, 01:29 PM
Not that it's going to happen at NDSU, but hockey is traditionally a less expensive sport than both basketball and football as far as budgets are concerned.

tony
04-07-2010, 02:07 PM
Not that it's going to happen at NDSU, but hockey is traditionally a less expensive sport than both basketball and football as far as budgets are concerned.

18 scholllies for hockey + amortized startup costs compared to 13 schollies for basketball.

The hockey sample size is so small that a couple schools with $100 million athletic budgets can skew the stats. Schools that get millions in TV and NCAA BB money find ways to spend that money. I'm pretty sure that Tubby Smith's $3million+ annual salary is three times NDSU's total BB budget.

Bottom line: If hockey budgets are smaller than the BB budget at a particular school, it's because that school's hockey team brings in less money than the BB program.

roper1313
04-07-2010, 02:26 PM
I would find it hard to believe that fully funded hockey is less expensive than hoops. If you drop coaching salaries it's not close. I think I read an article where UND's annual stick budget for the mens team is around $40,000.

Pie in the sky, but the UPC would work just fine for NDSU. It's plenty big enough and with the club and suites it can generate plenty of revenue. My guess is that it would generate as much revenue as all WCHA teams except Minnesota, Wisconsin and UND. To make off campus work I think the developers at the UP would need to focus on food, beverage, and entertainment around the UPC. Think, Duluth's set up minus Lake Superior. Although the UPC does have that water rentention pond to the west!!

This is all dreaming, but that's why we have these forums.

onbison09
04-07-2010, 03:12 PM
I would find it hard to believe that fully funded hockey is less expensive than hoops. If you drop coaching salaries it's not close. I think I read an article where UND's annual stick budget for the mens team is around $40,000.

Pie in the sky, but the UPC would work just fine for NDSU. It's plenty big enough and with the club and suites it can generate plenty of revenue. My guess is that it would generate as much revenue as all WCHA teams except Minnesota, Wisconsin and UND. To make off campus work I think the developers at the UP would need to focus on food, beverage, and entertainment around the UPC. Think, Duluth's set up minus Lake Superior. Although the UPC does have that water rentention pond to the west!!

This is all dreaming, but that's why we have these forums.

I read NHL teams spend at least $100,000 per year on sticks.

roper1313
04-07-2010, 04:53 PM
Yep, it's crazy. One piece composite sticks are a huge $$$ waste. I get a kick out of seeing 5-8 year old kids with $100 sticks when they can't even get close to flexing them. Gotta keep up with the Joneses.

I've noticed that most of the USHL teams use two piece sticks. Separate shaft and blade, for those of you that don't know. That probably saves them $50-$60 bucks compared to one piece.

AKBison
04-07-2010, 05:01 PM
I am a huge proponet of adding Hockey to NDSU winter lineup. However, we have so many things to deal with first that Hockey is barely on the back burner.IMO, the only way we get Hockey is to cut wrestling. That would be a tough pill to swallow. However, with the way things are going in that sport, it won't be long until there are no programs left outside of the Big 10 and Big 12 anyway. Hopefully that changes.

bisonballs33
04-07-2010, 09:21 PM
18 scholllies for hockey + amortized startup costs compared to 13 schollies for basketball.

The hockey sample size is so small that a couple schools with $100 million athletic budgets can skew the stats. Schools that get millions in TV and NCAA BB money find ways to spend that money. I'm pretty sure that Tubby Smith's $3million+ annual salary is three times NDSU's total BB budget.

Bottom line: If hockey budgets are smaller than the BB budget at a particular school, it's because that school's hockey team brings in less money than the BB program.

Of course, I am entirely assuming that for a startup program, a hockey team would have about 10 full scholarships. Travel is shorter in this part of the country. Teams typically play two road games each weekend. Concordia has a $60,000 hockey budget and NDSU's would eventually be about the same, plus their TV and radio contracts that Concordia doesn't have. Bottom line is, it won't be happening anytime soon, so it doesn't really matter.

onbison09
04-08-2010, 02:02 AM
I am a huge proponet of adding Hockey to NDSU winter lineup. However, we have so many things to deal with first that Hockey is barely on the back burner.IMO, the only way we get Hockey is to cut wrestling. That would be a tough pill to swallow. However, with the way things are going in that sport, it won't be long until there are no programs left outside of the Big 10 and Big 12 anyway. Hopefully that changes.

F*** and no. :hide:

bisonatrix
04-08-2010, 05:52 AM
They might take a look at it after the BB situation is taken care of, and once the Force go belly up.

Uhh, they seem to be doing pretty well. Cant quote their average attendances, but I've been to several games with crowds that I'd like to bring over to the BSA. I know a lot of people here hate hockey (although if UND didnt play it I'm sure those sentiments would be otherwise) and the Force because they have a number of ties to UND, but its a good experience and fun building. If their management group ever gets it together (finish the building, parking lots), they'll become as entrenched in this town as the RedHawks.

And NDSU hockey would be big, but we have other things to take care of before broaching that. Namely, we need to keep growing to let alone afford the startup costs.

bisonatrix
04-08-2010, 05:59 AM
I posted this in another thread but thought that it deserves its own topic.

I've always thought the support that MSU Moorhead claims to have support for hockey is, in fact, a group of people subtly trying to push NDSU into considering hockey. i mean seriously, I believe everything about those proposals, and the feasibility of putting a D1 team in there, up until you get to MSU Moorhead. no tradition or name recognition and an athletic department in constant disarray. if there are a number of boosters and community people willing to support and throw money at hockey, I cant see them doing it with a program that doesnt have its sh** together (MSU) as opposed to one that does (NDSU).

and of course, the last thing I'd want if I'm NDSU is legitimate compitition for college sports in Fargo-Moorhead. yea, the Dragons would suck, but had they gotten in the WCHA they'd have pulled in huge crowds for games with Minnesota, Wisconsin, and yes that school up north, and some of that would draw away from our home events (casual sports fans as opposed to diehards).

everything of course fell apart when Blais left town and the WCHA laughed off MSU's idea of entering the conference. but the money is out there. might as well get it in our corner. outside help will be needed for hockey to come here.

roper1313
04-08-2010, 01:52 PM
Of course, I am entirely assuming that for a startup program, a hockey team would have about 10 full scholarships. Travel is shorter in this part of the country. Teams typically play two road games each weekend. Concordia has a $60,000 hockey budget and NDSU's would eventually be about the same, plus their TV and radio contracts that Concordia doesn't have. Bottom line is, it won't be happening anytime soon, so it doesn't really matter.

Last time I checked the Bison athletic department is not one to go into something half-assed. $60,000 budget? You've got to be kidding me. Travel for D1 hockey in this part of the country is actually much greater than the east coast schools or the CCHA schools of Michigan and Ohio. Coaches salaries are six digits. THe equipment budget for a D1 school would probably be close to the $60,000 you quoted. Ice time alone would probably cost you around $50K. Then we have the cost of scholarships, marketing, and recruiting.

I'm hoping your cost of $60,000 was in jest, but if you add another 0 then your in the ballpark.

I'm not saying that NDSU would need to match UND in the size of their hockey budget, but I'd like to think that we would want to match the MSU-Mankato, and SCSU's of the world.

I know this isn't happening anytime soon, but it's still fun to talk about.

onbison09
04-08-2010, 01:56 PM
Last time I checked the Bison athletic department is not one to go into something half-assed. $60,000 budget? You've got to be kidding me. Travel for D1 hockey in this part of the country is actually much greater than the east coast schools or the CCHA schools of Michigan and Ohio. Coaches salaries are six digits. THe equipment budget for a D1 school would probably be close to the $60,000 you quoted. Ice time alone would probably cost you around $50K. Then we have the cost of scholarships, marketing, and recruiting.

I'm hoping your cost of $60,000 was completing in jest, but if you add another 0 then your in the ballpark.

I'm not saying that NDSU would need to match UND in the size of their hockey budget, but I'd like to think that we would want to match the MSU-Mankato, and SCSU's of the world.

I know this isn't happening anytime soon, but it's still fun to talk about.

$60,000 in sticks alone. Or at least close. OK maybe that was way off lol.

bisonballs33
04-08-2010, 03:43 PM
With TV and Radio contracts, I would be willing to bet that UND doesn't spend more than $100,000 net. I have worked with the financial numbers of hockey teams at different levels. When you are a big school, you get massive discount deals when you buy things in bulk. The initial budget is bigger because you have to buy everything and spend the money before you can bring it in, but once you get a TV contract, Radio Contract, and you start adding ticket sales and merchandise sales into the equation, the numbers really do not overwhelm all that much. But to be fair, initially, it's over a million dollar venture.

As far as travel goes...there are about 7 schools in the 250 mile radius. If you go as far as Michigan, you have almost 15 schools. Plus, there are only 25-30 people that need to travel, which also means less hotel rooms.

There is money to be made in hockey.

TheBisonator
04-08-2010, 09:38 PM
Annual hockey budget would have to be at least a million dollars. Anything less than a million and it's a no-go.

Frankly, IMO, I would rather see that million be added to the million that already exists for our mens basketball program.

tony
04-08-2010, 09:53 PM
Annual hockey budget would have to be at least a million dollars. Anything less than a million and it's a no-go.

Frankly, IMO, I would rather see that million be added to the million that already exists for our mens basketball program.

Well, the key is that men and women combined would have to be self-sufficient. If that's the case, then it doesn't really matter how much it adds to the budget.

I think the only way you can guarantee that hockey is going to be self-sufficient is for the students to approve a student fee to cover the full cost of hockey.

All hockey income could then be used to lower student's activity fees for the next year. Oh yeah, and that fee shouldn't kick in until NDSU has an arena to play in. That puts the decision in the hands of the students.

silkamilkamonico
04-08-2010, 11:52 PM
I understand if people are hesitant on a hearsay story from a message board, but I actually approached Jeff Schwartz about a month ago, and curiously asked him about hockey at NDSU for a research paper I'm doing for class, and he said NDSU has absolutely no intentions of even considering hockey in the forseeable future, as NDSU wants to continue to build on the athletic programs they have now, and are starting to do that with the complex they are looking into building.

He also stated that if NDSU was to get a hockey program going, funding would indeed be taken away from all athletics, and most specifically football/basketball because they recieve the most.

Personally I am completely against hockey at NDSU, and if NDSU ever did look into it, I would only continue donating as long as I have control in what programs my money goes too.

tony
04-09-2010, 02:27 AM
I understand if people are hesitant on a hearsay story from a message board, but I actually approached Jeff Schwartz about a month ago, and curiously asked him about hockey at NDSU for a research paper I'm doing for class, and he said NDSU has absolutely no intentions of even considering hockey in the forseeable future, as NDSU wants to continue to build on the athletic programs they have now, and are starting to do that with the complex they are looking into building.

I totally agree that NDSU's athletic department isn't going to be involved in any push for hockey. If hockey ever comes to NDSU, it will be because the students provide both the funding and the mandate.

roper1313
04-12-2010, 06:59 PM
I totally agree that NDSU's athletic department isn't going to be involved in any push for hockey. If hockey ever comes to NDSU, it will be because the students provide both the funding and the mandate.

I agree with Silk and Tony, but I do think that if done properly NDSU hockey could be a self-sufficient and revenue producing sport. A facility has always been the biggest issue and that is not an issue at the UPC.

Bisonballs33, I'd take that bet in a heartbeat. This is small market USA, radio and tv contracts for UND hockey barely make a dent in the programs budget.

DORMIE
04-13-2010, 03:08 AM
I grew up playing hockey.. Fargo Central 1960. When I lived in GF for a short time I gave some $$$ to the old Ralph. Hockey at SU, NFW. Reason being Title IX. Women's hockey would cost you about $750,000. We have better fish to fry.