Low Point

[lcbison]

01/12/2009- has to be the low point in NDSU womens bball history. This is the same program that used to significantly outdraw the men, compete yearly for national titles and play on ESPN. Now we are happy for SDSU to be ranked, a team that we used dominate. WOW.

Now, we have a 1st year head coach with 7 players active for tonight. WTF..

Here's to hoping 4 or 5 of them foul out and they talk about it on Sportscenter.

NDSU Women's Bball in 2009 is a JOKE

[CarringtonBison]

aren't we tied for the league lead????

could turn out different, but so far better than what was predicted.

attendance sucks, but imo this is related to both monday nights and the crappy weather we have had

[lcbison]

aren't we tied for the league lead????

could turn out different, but so far better than what was predicted.

attendance sucks, but imo this is related to both monday nights and the crappy weather we have had

Yes, in a league that is worse than the old NCC.

[roadwarrior]

WOW!

Yes, we have had some serious injuries this season that have cut the number of players down to 7. Current record is 4-1 in the Summit League. A joke? Hardly. Coach DeHoff has got the team she inherited playing pretty well I would say. She didnt exactly walk into a great situation when she was hired. Too late to land any great recruits for this season. Lets give her a little slack this year. Five high school players signed their letters of intent in november. If you have any interest, there are threads here keeping track of their performances in their senior year in high school. I know I'll be at the BSA for the rest of their games this season and also at the conference tournament in Sioux Falls. Wishing for several players to foul out is the JOKE!

[GOB1SON]

WOW!

Yes, we have had some serious injuries this season that have cut the number of players down to 7. Current record is 4-1 in the Summit League. A joke? Hardly. Coach DeHoff has got the team she inherited playing pretty well I would say. She didnt exactly walk into a great situation when she was hired. Too late to land any great recruits for this season. Lets give her a little slack this year. Five high school players signed their letters of intent in november. If you have any interest, there are threads here keeping track of their performances in their senior year in high school. I know I'll be at the BSA for the rest of their games this season and also at the conference tournament in Sioux Falls. Wishing for several players to foul out is the JOKE!

AMEN!

Some of the sour grapes spilled here are getting pretty old.

Props to Coach D for having these girls sitting atop the Summit.

If they can finish 500 in the Summit this year (and they will do better than that) I am thinking Coach will be a serious coach of the year candidate in the league.

[lcbison]

WOW!

Yes, we have had some serious injuries this season that have cut the number of players down to 7. Current record is 4-1 in the Summit League. A joke? Hardly. Coach DeHoff has got the team she inherited playing pretty well I would say. She didnt exactly walk into a great situation when she was hired. Too late to land any great recruits for this season. Lets give her a little slack this year. Five high school players signed their letters of intent in november. If you have any interest, there are threads here keeping track of their performances in their senior year in high school. I know I'll be at the BSA for the rest of their games this season and also at the conference tournament in Sioux Falls. Wishing for several players to foul out is the JOKE!


I never said Dehoff has done a bad job. She inherited this mess. Just saying the program, which should have had the easiest transition to D1 (previously playing at the highest level), couln't have picked a worse year to rebuild. Year 1 of eligibility.

Here's to hoping Bohl doesn't leave the football program this bare if he leaves.

[roadwarrior]

I'm happy to hear you aren't blaming DeHoff for the current situation. But it reallly doesnt do much good whining about the past or even worse hoping something bad happens the remainder of the season.

[Mr. Burgundy]

4-1 in the conference. VERY young team. 5 incoming freshman already signed for next year......ummmm....what am I missing? I think things are looking up. Did you expect them to be 4-1 at this point? The answer is no. They are starting a STUD at PG who is a crazy athlete and going to dominate this conference by the time she is done.

I don't follow the program as close as many, but to say this is a low point? Come on.

[SDbison]

4-1 in the conference. VERY young team. 5 incoming freshman already signed for next year......ummmm....what am I missing? I think things are looking up. Did you expect them to be 4-1 at this point? The answer is no. They are starting a STUD at PG who is a crazy athlete and going to dominate this conference by the time she is done.

I don't follow the program as close as many, but to say this is a low point? Come on.
I think NDSU's womens program, as compared to the glory years in the 1990's, is not doing very well. Why is it UND and then SDSU came to dominate the final years of the NCC and NDSU drop down several notches? With all the great examples of success and a hall of fame coach in Amy Ruley it seemed that there must have been some bad decisions, poor recruiting, and some other factors that led to its demise. Possibly Amy should have stepped down much earlier. Now the team is in shambles and the current coach is doing OK considering what she inherited.
The true measurement of where NDSU's program is and where it is headed will be how long will it take until NDSU's women can do the things SDSU is now doing? How many years will it take for NDSU to beat an SDSU program that is two plus deep in talent? If someone back in the 1990's said there was a NCC team that would go DI and immediately make an impact in womens basketball by regularly beating major programs most everyone would have said NDSU. Now look at where NDSU womens basketball really is and how long, if ever, it will take to rebuild. Shame it had to be this way.

[BlueKeyAlum]

I never said Dehoff has done a bad job. She inherited this mess. Just saying the program, which should have had the easiest transition to D1 (previously playing at the highest level), couln't have picked a worse year to rebuild. Year 1 of eligibility.

Here's to hoping Bohl doesn't leave the football program this bare if he leaves.

Well you sure as hell implied the DeHoff has done a bad job. Hoping that the team makes SportsCenter for not having enough players eligible?!? What's that all about!?!

[tony]

Kind of ironic - I was just about to start a thread to say how much I liked the way the team has rallied this year and then saw this.

If leading the conference is the low point for this team despite a host of injuries and general lack of depth, wouldn't that be a good thing? :)

[Gully]

Won again easily tonight....low point? Whatever. Some people just have to find something to complain about.

[lakesbison]

the low point is NOT getting JLO on this team...........


lcbison..i will agree that summit womens bball isnt that great..... but screw it, beat sdsu!!!

[tjbison]

I nominate this thread be locked in the steel cage that is the HALL OF SHAME!!!:banghead:

[iHEARTthundar]

The fact that we now have 7 healthy players and we are beating teams with 10+ players is amazing! Also this is our first year that we are eligable for the playoffs and we are doing pretty well considering. Just because SDSU has really excelled doesn't mean we are doing terrible.

lakes, JLo is never going to play bball at NDSU so GET OVER IT!!!

[NorthernBison]

Wow! Everybody thought that women's basketball would have the easiest transition and mens' basketball would struggle. That just shows how much "everybody" knows.

I can see big things ahead for the women. They are moving in the right direction.

[medman]

I would have to agree, our league is pretty bad after watching some of the teams play. they have girls playing that are terrible so no wonder we are beating them. coach d is doing a great job with what she has but honestly look who they are playing against. its bad. not what i think of when i think of division 1 girls basketball

[summitfever]

To say the Summit League is worse than the old NCC....well, that's just not true. There is a definite difference and the Summit is better.

[missingnumber7]

the low point is NOT getting JLO on this team...........


lcbison..i will agree that summit womens bball isnt that great..... but screw it, beat sdsu!!!

JLO ain't D1 hoops talent...and after not playing competitively for another year...really not what NDSU needs. Besides...they should be working on Volleyball stuff. We are seriously D1 now...there are no 2 sport athletes in D1. At least not major sport athletes. There are exceptions to that rule but very rarely. And really is it worth risking VB season to play on a BB team that has a slim chance at best to go anywhere?

[medman]

To say the Summit League is worse than the old NCC....well, that's just not true. There is a definite difference and the Summit is better.

If that is the case then i am losing alot of respect for womens basketball because the teams they play, some of the girls can barely make a layup or a free throw.

[lcbison]

I nominate this thread be locked in the steel cage that is the HALL OF SHAME!!!:banghead:

Bash me all you want but when you go into a game with your "rival" and have no expectations of winning, something is wrong.

Hopefully this is a one year abberation, and these recruits are as good as advertised. Otherwise, we could be looking into the future with alot of bball games with an attendance of 742 people.

[99Bison]

Strange thread, low point had to have been last year about this time -- before they went on the winning streak.

[bisonbrody9]

JLO ain't D1 hoops talent...and after not playing competitively for another year...really not what NDSU needs. Besides...they should be working on Volleyball stuff. We are seriously D1 now...there are no 2 sport athletes in D1. At least not major sport athletes. There are exceptions to that rule but very rarely. And really is it worth risking VB season to play on a BB team that has a slim chance at best to go anywhere?

I don't think its that rare, this is a list that popped up at the top of a google search of Football or Baseball players at UF that played 2sports since 1980. Granted we aren't Florida, but is more common than you think.

http://www.gatorzone.com/football/media/2005/pdf/41.pdf

Stanford football/basketball benefited from it:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4176/is_/ai_n14582596

[aces1180]

I don't think its that rare, this is a list that popped up at the top of a google search of Football or Baseball players at UF that played 2sports since 1980. Granted we aren't Florida, but is more common than you think.

http://www.gatorzone.com/football/media/2005/pdf/41.pdf

Stanford football/basketball benefited from it:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4176/is_/ai_n14582596

Also Eric Decker from the U of M is a standout football player and baseball player.

[lcbison]

To say there are no 2 sport athletes in D1 is ridiculous.

Almost as ridiculous as having 7 players on a baskeball team.

Heck, watch a night of intramurals and pick the 5 best girls. Don't give them scholarships, just put a uniform on them. At least you look like a D1 team. The girls would probably be happy for the free shoes that they get.

[Bison bison]

This isn't a low point for the team.

It's a low point for the fans.

The team is at the top of a DI conference with a first year coach and seven players!

[tjbison]

This isn't a low point for the team.

It's a low point for the fans.

The team is at the top of a DI conference with a first year coach and seven players!

Cheers to you NDB!! Fans should be cheering for what these Ladies have done! with the Limited Backups new coach, and apparently angry fans!

[iHEARTthundar]

This isn't a low point for the team.

It's a low point for the fans.

The team is at the top of a DI conference with a first year coach and seven players!

AMEN!!! I'm glad there are some people with a brain on here ... Give the girls a break they are working their butts off and doing a great job so get out there and support them and get a life!

And there are maybe a few two sport athletes in DI out of how many thousands of DI athletes... also those are FOOTBALL and BASEBALL two sports with OUT over-lapping seasons and both seasons are very short, unlike basketball. I don't really know, but are those teams actually any good anyways?

[bisonbrody9]

AMEN!!! I'm glad there are some people with a brain on here ... Give the girls a break they are working their butts off and doing a great job so get out there and support them and get a life!

And there are maybe a few two sport athletes in DI out of how many thousands of DI athletes... also those are FOOTBALL and BASEBALL two sports with OUT over-lapping seasons and both seasons are very short, unlike basketball. I don't really know, but are those teams actually any good anyways?

Since those athletes I listed are from UF lets take a look at this.
This year the gators baseball team plays game one Feb. 20, with the SEC Tourney being May 20-24. Depending on their play they could potentially go to the CWS and play until June 24.

In 2008 their first fball game was Aug. 30 and the season finale Nov. 29, don't forget the SEC champ. and BCS game that came on Jan. 8 2009.

Without postseason play there is a total of seven months.

Basketball and Volleyball would run Late Aug. - Early March and the first month of the season is not a necessity for a player.

Hence, JLO could go straight from volleyball to basketball. This year she only would have missed the first 5-6games and the 2 exhibitions.

[tony]

All I've got to say is if this is NDSU's low point in WBB, then I can't wait to see what a high point is like. I think this is a rebuilding period - I like what I've seen from the team so far and am looking forward to seeing what the incoming class brings to the floor.

BTW, is there a difference between men playing two sports and women? It sure seems like our women have been getting a ton more serious injuries than men (excluding football, of course) and that having a player on two squads would increase the odds of injury - and that would then impact two squads instead of one. IIRC, the VB to BB (or vice versa) happened only rarely - and the only times I remember it is when the athlete had used up their eligibility in their primary sport.

[56BISON73]

This isn't a low point for the team.

It's a low point for the fans.

The team is at the top of a DI conference with a first year coach and seven players!

How can this be a low point for the fans when they are in first place??:confused:
PL

[GOB1SON]

I think the response is in reference to how the fans have responded to the team. Low attendance, some silly comments made, both here and in other forums.

The fans haven't really gotten behind this team and that is a shame.

[Ferd]

... stuff deleted ...

The fans haven't really gotten behind this team and that is a shame.

Absolutely true! I did not have great expectations for WBB when we entered this year, BUT, they have already been exceeded! And this with only 10 (9 really) players at the start of the season.

I say AWESOME job under the circumstances! :nod:

Katie B., a true freshman, is the "Real Deal." I really enjoy watching her play. I am truely anxious to see how she develops in the next three years.

Now, I only hope the new recruits add as much as Katie has.

It would be interesting to see a projection of the next three years. We're already at least 7 deep this year and Penley is the only Senior.

[Ferd]

All these "negative vibes..." :banghead:

How ironic. Last year people were calling for Amy to leave. Now they seem to be bitching about where that got them.

"Be careful of what you wish for, you just might get it!"

[56BISON73]

All these "negative vibes..." :banghead:

How ironic. Last year people were calling for Amy to leave. Now they seem to be bitching about where that got them.

"Be careful of what you wish for, you just might get it!"

I was thinking the same thing. PL

[bisonpride]

First I want to commend the team in how they have been able to handle the adversity of only 8 and now 7 players. The disaster that Amy left for these athletes and coaches to get out of is sad.

Now for some facts. This is a sub par conference compared to the NCC in the late 90's and early 2000. There were 5 teams that were better then the bottom 3/4ths of this conference now. (NDSU, UND, SDSU, USD, St Cloud) Conference RPI is 19th out of 31. Remove SDSU and it would be around the mid to low 20's. There are only 2 schools with an RPI better then 200. If that is not enough our overall record is 6-7 but our conference record is 5-1. So we are 1-6 against all other non conference teams. The lone win was against 4-11 and 260 RPI Idaho State. The saving grace to our 221 RPI was a victory over Oakland who is 80 or we would also be in the 250s. Our strength of schedule is 3rd worst in the conference at 260 out of 330+ schools. Not only are we 5-1 in conference but we have won three of those games by 37, 19, and 21. Not exactly a great example of the depth of this conference.

I can see how it may be viewed as a low point. Low points can have differing measures depending on the expectations of a program. Expectations are high for this program considering where it has been and what is provided for it to be successful. Anything lower then a 4th place finish in this conference is bad, DI or not. As it is now we will probably finish 3rd barring a miracle. DeHoff has her work cut out for her but by having a smaller roster of players at this time she has the flexibility to find the players she wants. With the current APR rules as they are it is difficult to cut players from the team with out facing penalties. By having fewer players she can put her stamp on this team sooner then later. Look at it this way there is no where else to go but up.

[bisonpride]

How ironic. Last year people were calling for Amy to leave. Now they seem to be bitching about where that got them.

"Be careful of what you wish for, you just might get it!"

Amy is the one that got us into this mess of only 7 players. Now DeHoff has to find a way to get us out of it. Amy's recruiting classes were very average at best with several players leaving.

For example...
Tessa Wilka only gets about 13 minutes a game for Augie, does not start and averages 2 points a game. That's for a 5th place NSIC team.

Dannielle Ellison is starting for St Cloud but averaging only about 7pts per game as a FORWARD. Amy had her as a point guard who couldn't dribble with her left hand. It was obvious she was not a college point guard even if she may have been in HS.

[medman]

First I want to commend the team in how they have been able to handle the adversity of only 8 and now 7 players. The disaster that Amy left for these athletes and coaches to get out of is sad.

Now for some facts. This is a sub par conference compared to the NCC in the late 90's and early 2000. There were 5 teams that were better then the bottom 3/4ths of this conference now. (NDSU, UND, SDSU, USD, St Cloud) Conference RPI is 19th out of 31. Remove SDSU and it would be around the mid to low 20's. There are only 2 schools with an RPI better then 200. If that is not enough our overall record is 6-7 but our conference record is 5-1. So we are 1-6 against all other non conference teams. The lone win was against 4-11 and 260 RPI Idaho State. The saving grace to our 221 RPI was a victory over Oakland who is 80 or we would also be in the 250s. Our strength of schedule is 3rd worst in the conference at 260 out of 330+ schools. Not only are we 5-1 in conference but we have won three of those games by 37, 19, and 21. Not exactly a great example of the depth of this conference.

I can see how it may be viewed as a low point. Low points can have differing measures depending on the expectations of a program. Expectations are high for this program considering where it has been and what is provided for it to be successful. Anything lower then a 4th place finish in this conference is bad, DI or not. As it is now we will probably finish 3rd barring a miracle. DeHoff has her work cut out for her but by having a smaller roster of players at this time she has the flexibility to find the players she wants. With the current APR rules as they are it is difficult to cut players from the team with out facing penalties. By having fewer players she can put her stamp on this team sooner then later. Look at it this way there is no where else to go but up.

I could not have said it better. You are 100% correct. Nice facts

[DenverBison05]

I could not have said it better. You are 100% correct. Nice facts

Nice facts? I think false stats would more accurately describe it.

There are 3 summit teams below 200 not 2 on the womens side (ORU is at 164). I wasn't aware that we beat Oakland, must have missed that, oh wait, didn't we lose that game 61-47.

Have you guys actually compared the men's rpi to the women's. We have 2 teams in the top 100 on the women's side. Thats a lot better than the RPI on the mens side where we actually do only have 2 teams in the top 200 and thats oakland at 146 and us at 168. Im sorry but the Summit league isn't even half as bad as what you guys are trying to portray. If you want to complain about the strength of the league then start on the men's side not the women's.

P.S. Personally I think the Summit is better than the NCC in both mens and womens basketball, but there is no way to prove that one way or another. I just hate when people distort the facts.

[NDSUstudent]

Nice facts? I think false stats would more accurately describe it.

There are 3 summit teams below 200 not 2 on the womens side (ORU is at 164). I wasn't aware that we beat Oakland, must have missed that, oh wait, didn't we lose that game 61-47.

Have you guys actually compared the men's rpi to the women's. We have 2 teams in the top 100 on the women's side. Thats a lot better than the RPI on the mens side where we actually do only have 2 teams in the top 200 and thats oakland at 146 and us at 168. Im sorry but the Summit league isn't even half as bad as what you guys are trying to portray. If you want to complain about the strength of the league then start on the men's side not the women's.

P.S. Personally I think the Summit is better than the NCC in both mens and womens basketball, but there is no way to prove that one way or another. I just hate when people distort the facts.

You can't compare men's and women's basketball, women's basketball doesn't have anywhere close to the amount of depth that the men's side has.

I'd say the mens side of the Summit is a definite step up from the NCC or present day NSIC. I don't know if I can say the same thing about the women's side, some of the teams are just plain bad.

[Elephants Dream?]

"How ironic. Last year people were calling for Amy to leave. Now they seem to be bitching about where that got them."

I know this won't be a popular comment with some on the board
but count your blessings that she is no longer on the sideline.
I'm sure that most of the players are more content this year than last.
Recruiting can move forward and given some time things should improve.

[bisonpride]

Nice facts? I think false stats would more accurately describe it.

There are 3 summit teams below 200 not 2 on the womens side (ORU is at 164). I wasn't aware that we beat Oakland, must have missed that, oh wait, didn't we lose that game 61-47.

Have you guys actually compared the men's rpi to the women's. We have 2 teams in the top 100 on the women's side. Thats a lot better than the RPI on the mens side where we actually do only have 2 teams in the top 200 and thats oakland at 146 and us at 168. Im sorry but the Summit league isn't even half as bad as what you guys are trying to portray. If you want to complain about the strength of the league then start on the men's side not the women's.

P.S. Personally I think the Summit is better than the NCC in both mens and womens basketball, but there is no way to prove that one way or another. I just hate when people distort the facts.

I used this website for my rpi rankings. (http://realtimerpi.com/rpi_midco_Women.html) As I type this ORU is now at 200. They were 210 yesterday as I typed it. We have since dropped to 232 and IUPUI is ahead of us at 228. I was mistaken off the top of my head that NDSU beat Oakland. They held off IPFW not Oakland. That was the night Oak knocked off SDSU. My mistake. The major conferences dont put the emphasis on womens basketball as they do for the men because of the revenue gained. The depth of teams in DI mens compared to DI women is not even close to comparable. Look at how bad Alabama was when they were here a couple years ago. They had a post player that couldn't even run and thats a major conference school. When the NCC was at its peak it was getting all the recruits from the area. DI schools were not really spending anytime here. That all changed when Angie Welle and Meghan Taylor went to Iowa State. Before that NDSU, UND, SDSU, and USD got everyone of note from their respective areas and state. Now there are players from the area going to Iowa, KState, etc... on a regular basis. Not only that but the quantity of talent during that time from the area of that ability level was considerably better then now. To think that SDSU can be 6-1 against major conference opponents already with a roster of southern Minnesota and SD players with the exception of 3 and then say that DI womens basketball is even close to equally as deep as the men is not accurate.

[lcbison]

I used this website for my rpi rankings. (http://realtimerpi.com/rpi_midco_Women.html) As I type this ORU is now at 200. They were 210 yesterday as I typed it. We have since dropped to 232 and IUPUI is ahead of us at 228. I was mistaken off the top of my head that NDSU beat Oakland. They held off IPFW not Oakland. That was the night Oak knocked off SDSU. My mistake. The major conferences dont put the emphasis on womens basketball as they do for the men because of the revenue gained. The depth of teams in DI mens compared to DI women is not even close to comparable. Look at how bad Alabama was when they were here a couple years ago. They had a post player that couldn't even run and thats a major conference school. When the NCC was at its peak it was getting all the recruits from the area. DI schools were not really spending anytime here. That all changed when Angie Welle and Meghan Taylor went to Iowa State. Before that NDSU, UND, SDSU, and USD got everyone of note from their respective areas and state. Now there are players from the area going to Iowa, KState, etc... on a regular basis. Not only that but the quantity of talent during that time from the area of that ability level was considerably better then now. To think that SDSU can be 6-1 against major conference opponents already with a roster of southern Minnesota and SD players with the exception of 3 and then say that DI womens basketball is even close to equally as deep as the men is not accurate.

The same quality of players that used to be at NDSU

[bisonpride]

The same quality of players that used to be at NDSU

EXACTLY!!!

Morelock, Schmidt, Buck, Rhademacher, Fisher, etc... Those teams would have been exactly where SDSU is right now.

[DORMIE]

I'm back. Just got my new computer in my condo today. You knew that I would respond to this one. Have to agree with Elephants Dream. Listen to that one. Only one that knows whats going on in WBB. Talked to a friend last knight at the bowling alley. He ran into Inger at Scheel's. She really likes her coach. Also sat with a coach at Teammakers last Thursday. They will probably bring in 2-3 in 2010. Talked to Jill Devries at the game on Monday. They had all 5 recruits in camp last summer. Guess at least 4 of the 5 could play right away. The 6-5 kid and the one from Winnepig are the real deal.

[sambini]

I'm back. Just got my new computer in my condo today. You knew that I would respond to this one. Have to agree with Elephants Dream. Listen to that one. Only one that knows whats going on in WBB. Talked to a friend last knight at the bowling alley. He ran into Inger at Scheel's. She really likes her coach. Also sat with a coach at Teammakers last Thursday. They will probably bring in 2-3 in 2010. Talked to Jill Devries at the game on Monday. They had all 5 recruits in camp last summer. Guess at least 4 of the 5 could play right away. The 6-5 kid and the one from Winnepig are the real deal. Thanks Dormie good to have u back.+++

[DORMIE]

This Bud's for me. It usually is!!!!!

[SlickVic]

This Bud's for me. It usually is!!!!!

DORMIE!!!!!!!!!!!! ;)

[medman]

You can't compare men's and women's basketball, women's basketball doesn't have anywhere close to the amount of depth that the men's side has.

I'd say the mens side of the Summit is a definite step up from the NCC or present day NSIC. I don't know if I can say the same thing about the women's side, some of the teams are just plain bad.

Agreed, you can't compare mens to womens at all. Throughout division 1 on the mens side, there is alot of parity. When do you ever see a mid major in women ever do anything in the tourney. There are barely any upsets in womens. Every year, it is prettymuch the same teams in the final four and mostly 1 and 2 seeds. It is so hard to predict mens because of the parity. Also, not very many people care about womens basketball in major schools and even smaller schools. Look at our attendance compared to the men. nobody really cares about womens. I go to the games because i enjoy watching basketball but if you give me a choice between a mens game over a womens game i will choose womens 100% of the time. Men are just so much faster and more athletic and fun to watch. I would say a high school boys team could beat alot of division 1 womens teams. Also, as for the womens competition, it is bad. Our conference is really bad besides SDSU. That is a fact!

[summitfever]

Someone stated earlier in this thread that there is obviously no way of knowing or measuring which is better. That is the only correct answer. Some people think by adding a lot of !!!!! it makes them right. Don't think so.

It's a matter of opinion.

[MHDBisonfan]

Someone stated earlier in this thread that there is obviously no way of knowing or measuring which is better. That is the only correct answer. Some people think by adding a lot of !!!!! it makes them right. Don't think so.

It's a matter of opinion.

It is a matter of opinion, that's true, but some of us on here have been watching Bison basketball a long time. I personally have been watching since the Janice Woods/Pat Smykowski/Kristi Kremer days, which for those of you under 40 means from the mid/late 1980's. I can say that watching the Bison through the "glory year" and comparing those teams - and the opponents of those teams - it is not the same. In those days, the Bison got pretty much every single Miss Basktball from ND and MN, plus many of the candidates for MB. Throw in stud players from SD - see Jayne Even/Jamie Berry, etc - the Bison had some unbelievably fantastic teams through the years. Now those players do not come to NDSU. Local players like Kelsey Jacobson from Moorhead or Camille Whalin from Crookston or the Kielpinski sisters from Mandan would have been Bison in the old days. Now they play in the Big 10 or other DI schools. I disagree with the idea that somehow this is a "lowpoint" in Bison basketball - the players we do have are working their tails off, and I think the new coach is doing a good job - just watch the body language of the players - a lot of positives. Katie Birkel is a stud, clearly, but is she better than Smykowski/Nadine Schmidt/Jody Buck? Dunno. However, that doesn't change the fact that even though we are now DI and have a chance to play in the big dance, the competition in our conference isn't very good with the exception of the Jacks. The NCC was the nations best wbb conference at that level and was far superior to the summit league. In my opinion.

[Bison bison]

In those days, the Bison got pretty much every single Miss Basktball from ND and MN, plus many of the candidates for MB.

???

I'm confused. How could the candidates for Mr. Basketball play? Were they eunuchs?

???

:p

[BlueKeyAlum]

It is a matter of opinion, that's true, but some of us on here have been watching Bison basketball a long time. I personally have been watching since the Janice Woods/Pat Smykowski/Kristi Kremer days, which for those of you under 40 means from the mid/late 1980's. I can say that watching the Bison through the "glory year" and comparing those teams - and the opponents of those teams - it is not the same. In those days, the Bison got pretty much every single Miss Basktball from ND and MN, plus many of the candidates for MB. Throw in stud players from SD - see Jayne Even/Jamie Berry, etc - the Bison had some unbelievably fantastic teams through the years. Now those players do not come to NDSU. Local players like Kelsey Jacobson from Moorhead or Camille Whalin from Crookston or the Kielpinski sisters from Mandan would have been Bison in the old days. Now they play in the Big 10 or other DI schools. I disagree with the idea that somehow this is a "lowpoint" in Bison basketball - the players we do have are working their tails off, and I think the new coach is doing a good job - just watch the body language of the players - a lot of positives. Katie Birkel is a stud, clearly, but is she better than Smykowski/Nadine Schmidt/Jody Buck? Dunno. However, that doesn't change the fact that even though we are now DI and have a chance to play in the big dance, the competition in our conference isn't very good with the exception of the Jacks. The NCC was the nations best wbb conference at that level and was far superior to the summit league. In my opinion.


The top teams in the NCC were among the best in the nation...that was usually us, the Sioux, Augie and, less consistently, St. Cloud State, and SDSU. SU and the Sioux and Augie would destroy those teams by 30-40 points. Most of the time, the bottom 6-7 teams in the NCC were baaaad. I think the Summit as a whole is better across the board than the NCC when facturing in the bottom teams.

[bisonpride]

The top teams in the NCC were among the best in the nation...that was usually us, the Sioux, Augie and, less consistently, St. Cloud State, and SDSU. SU and the Sioux and Augie would destroy those teams by 30-40 points. Most of the time, the bottom 6-7 teams in the NCC were baaaad. I think the Summit as a whole is better across the board than the NCC when facturing in the bottom teams.

There were only 10 teams in the league before Morningside left so based on the records and from what I watched with my own eyes, in 2000, there were 2 really bad teams, 2 average teams, and 6 great teams. Here is the proof http://www.northcentralconference.org/sports/wbkb/archives/stats/index . The stretch from 2000 until our transition was definitely a better conference then the current Summit. Interesting to look at the scores.

North Dakota State (24-3,16-2)
North Dakota (24-4,15-3)
Augustana (20-9,10-8)
South Dakota State (19-8,11-7)
Northern Colorado (19-8,12-6)
St. Cloud State (18-9,10-8)
---A combined 50-7 non conference record----

Nebraska-Omaha (15-12,7-11)
South Dakota (11-16,4-14)

Minnesota St,Mankato (9-18,5-13)
Morningside (1-26,0-18)

2001- 6 quality teams. We lost to 6th place USD. They also beat UND.
|------CONFERENCE-------| |--------OVERALL--------|
STANDINGS W-L Pct PF PA W-L Pct PF PA
--------- --- --- -- -- --- --- -- --
North Dakota........ 15-3 .833 77.0 63.1 25-3 .893 80.2 62.0
North Dakota State.. 13-5 .722 77.8 65.3 25-7 .781 78.9 63.6
Augustana........... 13-5 .722 75.7 69.4 20-8 .714 74.9 67.5
St. Cloud State..... 12-6 .667 75.2 69.9 20-8 .714 77.6 69.0
South Dakota State.. 9-9 .500 77.1 73.3 15-12 .556 78.8 71.9
South Dakota........ 9-9 .500 67.3 68.6 15-12 .556 69.4 64.7
Northern Colorado... 7-11 .389 67.1 71.4 12-15 .444 66.6 69.8
Nebraska-Omaha...... 6-12 .333 65.3 70.7 8-18 .308 66.5 69.9
Minn. St., Mankato.. 5-13 .278 61.6 71.7 8-20 .286 64.3 71.3
Morningside......... 1-17 .056 62.3 82.9 4-22 .154 65.0 81.6

2002- we are 4th of 10 (does that put us as the 7th bad team?)
|------CONFERENCE-------| |--------OVERALL--------|
STANDINGS W-L Pct PF PA W-L Pct PF PA
--------- --- --- -- -- --- --- -- --
North Dakota........ 14-4 .778 83.5 69.3 24-5 .828 82.4 66.8
South Dakota State.. 12-6 .667 78.5 73.2 27-8 .771 82.2 70.6
South Dakota........ 12-6 .667 68.9 62.9 19-9 .679 70.0 59.4
North Dakota State.. 10-8 .556 72.5 70.0 18-10 .643 73.3 66.8
Northern Colorado... 10-8 .556 67.4 67.1 14-13 .519 67.9 66.8
St. Cloud State..... 9-9 .500 74.3 74.6 14-13 .519 77.1 74.7
Augustana........... 9-9 .500 69.6 68.1 14-13 .519 68.5 64.6
Nebraska-Omaha...... 7-11 .389 72.3 78.6 11-18 .379 72.9 76.4
Minn. St., Mankato.. 4-14 .222 67.6 79.0 9-18 .333 71.0 77.6
Morningside......... 3-15 .167 70.9 82.8 7-19 .269 70.6 79.5

2003 (4 great teams and 5 bad ones)
South Dakota State.. 14-2 .875 83.4 64.4 32-3 .914 85.7 62.6
South Dakota........ 14-2 .875 73.8 63.1 27-5 .844 75.7 62.2
North Dakota........ 12-4 .750 81.3 68.0 26-6 .812 82.4 66.1
North Dakota State.. 12-4 .750 81.8 71.6 26-7 .788 81.8 68.7
Nebraska-Omaha...... 5-11 .312 74.8 84.6 12-16 .429 77.1 80.8
Northern Colorado... 5-11 .312 63.4 68.8 12-16 .429 64.1 62.3
Augustana........... 4-12 .250 69.4 78.9 16-15 .516 73.9 73.4
Minn. St., Mankato.. 3-13 .188 67.4 83.8 9-18 .333 71.1 78.6
St. Cloud State..... 3-13 .188 66.8 78.9 8-19 .296 67.6 73.1

[summitfever]

I too watched the old conference and all through the transition. Comparing overall records does nothing to compare the ncc with the current summit. The ncc teams back then were not playing all d2 schools if i remember correctly. Some of those wins are against d3 schools (not a lot of them but some).

We all have our opinions, which is fine. But from top to bottom my opinion is the summit is better.

[bisoneer]

01/12/2009- has to be the low point in NDSU womens bball history. This is the same program that used to significantly outdraw the men, compete yearly for national titles and play on ESPN. Now we are happy for SDSU to be ranked, a team that we used dominate. WOW.

Now, we have a 1st year head coach with 7 players active for tonight. WTF..

Here's to hoping 4 or 5 of them foul out and they talk about it on Sportscenter.

NDSU Women's Bball in 2009 is a JOKE

I disagree, give the new coach some credit! She has some really nice wins this year and the girls are working hard for her, all 7 or 8 of them!