Officiating...

[WestDakotaBison]

I might as well start it...

The officials completely took the outcome of this game into their hands. I know it's not fair to blame a ref, it's not easy officiating, so on and so forth...BUT the officials hands down had a direct affect on this game. The officiating in conference games has been sub-par all season long and it came to a culmination tonight when the refs hands down blew too many calls. which include...

1.) the late hit out of bounds by the bison...the runner clearly was still in bounds
2.) the first two point conversion...the ref had his hands up before he reached the goal line...whether he made it or not that ref was calling it good
3.) the helmet to helmet contact...i may be proved wrong on this one tomorrow when i see the highlights, but clearly it was such a big hit, who on earth was looking for that penalty, plus i'm fairly confident our player had his head tucked and off to the side, the contact was made by his shoulder.

there were more calls i'm sure, but again, without a question the Bunnies can give the assist to the officiating crew.

[iHEARTthundar]

... I am thinking they were just getting paid off for the W. It was getting close and they probably just needed the extra cash for some christmas presents...

:)

[NDSUstudent]

Tonight was the first time I have seen offensive pass interference called when neither player had a chance to catch the ball.

[sambini]

They were bad++++++

[gotts]

Tonight was the first time I have seen offensive pass interference called when neither player had a chance to catch the ball.

The one where he was overthrown by 20 yards?

[HerdBot]

I might as well start it...

The officials completely took the outcome of this game into their hands. I know it's not fair to blame a ref, it's not easy officiating, so on and so forth...BUT the officials hands down had a direct affect on this game. The officiating in conference games has been sub-par all season long and it came to a culmination tonight when the refs hands down blew too many calls. which include...

1.) the late hit out of bounds by the bison...the runner clearly was still in bounds
2.) the first two point conversion...the ref had his hands up before he reached the goal line...whether he made it or not that ref was calling it good
3.) the helmet to helmet contact...i may be proved wrong on this one tomorrow when i see the highlights, but clearly it was such a big hit, who on earth was looking for that penalty, plus i'm fairly confident our player had his head tucked and off to the side, the contact was made by his shoulder.

there were more calls i'm sure, but again, without a question the Bunnies can give the assist to the officiating crew.

the refs blew but I won't take any credit away from the jacks. they played well with their backup qb. blame this on on special teams and a jacks coach with large gonads.

[NDSUstudent]

The one where he was overthrown by 20 yards?

Yes, the play in the 4th quarter where Belquist was called and the ball still sailed way over his head.

[gotts]

Yes, the play in the 4th quarter where Belquist was called and the ball still sailed way over his head.

Yeah, I was very confused on that call...

[CaBisonFan]

I might as well start it...

The officials completely took the outcome of this game into their hands. I know it's not fair to blame a ref, it's not easy officiating, so on and so forth...BUT the officials hands down had a direct affect on this game. The officiating in conference games has been sub-par all season long and it came to a culmination tonight when the refs hands down blew too many calls. which include...

1.) the late hit out of bounds by the bison...the runner clearly was still in bounds
2.) the first two point conversion...the ref had his hands up before he reached the goal line...whether he made it or not that ref was calling it good
3.) the helmet to helmet contact...i may be proved wrong on this one tomorrow when i see the highlights, but clearly it was such a big hit, who on earth was looking for that penalty, plus i'm fairly confident our player had his head tucked and off to the side, the contact was made by his shoulder.

there were more calls i'm sure, but again, without a question the Bunnies can give the assist to the officiating crew.

The interference call on the last drive was a blown call. The Humber hit, 2 feet from the sidelines, was a blown call. The helmet to helmet call on the last drive was a ridiculous call. I think that the Rabbits might have made the last drive anyway. They had the mo. But they received two significant assists from the guys in stripes. The yardage was huge.

It was a great game. Someone had to win. We should have had the game out of reach. Missed field goals, and our offense went away from what was working in the 2nd & 3rd quarters.

We played 'not to lose.' SDSU played to win.

They deserved to win. Two very evenly-matched teams.

I'm proud of the way the Bison played. Maresh, among others, played a superhuman game.

[WestDakotaBison]

the refs blew but I won't take any credit away from the jacks. they played well with their backup qb. blame this on on special teams and a jacks coach with large gonads.

You're right and I should have stated that in my original post. The better team won tonight, we should not have had to rely on a last game win to make the playoffs, however I was simply making the point that the officiating was bad all year and it was at its worst tonight.

[99Bison]

Yeah, I was very confused on that call...

Very confusing call - how do you get offensive interference on that type or route with the defender covering the inside... Seems pretty much impossible from the start.

[iHEARTthundar]

We played 'not to lose.' SDSU played to win.

They deserved to win. Two very evenly-matched teams.

I'm proud of the way the Bison played. Maresh, among others, played a superhuman game.

Very true, they did play to win... just dissappointed in how they got it in the end

Maresh did great! Major kudos to him tonight and all the other players that really played with heart tonight!

[HerdBot]

You're right and I should have stated that in my original post. The better team won tonight, we should not have had to rely on a last game win to make the playoffs, however I was simply making the point that the officiating was bad all year and it was at its worst tonight.

they sucked really bad. I would hate for jacks fans to think were not giving them credit. but I do think were very evenly matched and I think we out played them just a tish but the special teams killed us. we were slightly out coached. love the ballzy attitude by stieg. what a game man! we all got our moneys worth.

[HerdBot]

Very true, they did play to win... just dissappointed in how they got it in the end

Maresh did great! Major kudos to him tonight and all the other players that really played with heart tonight!

couldn't have said it better myself. love the part about playing to win.

[ndsubison1]

Tonight was the first time I have seen offensive pass interference called when neither player had a chance to catch the ball.

i dont think it matters if the ball is catchable or not when it's offensive pass interference

[missingnumber7]

I think the bigger statement was every officiating crew we had at home for conference games was horrid, weather its a personal foul for a great LEGAL hit, personal foul for an inbounds out of bounds hit by an official who has another official inbetween him and the play, or where to put the ball after a kickoff out of bounds. Patty needs a few emails about the crap that they have working this conference. Great West officiating was much better.

[missingnumber7]

i dont think it matters if the ball is catchable or not when it's offensive pass interference

Uncatchable applies to all pass interference, however the back judge is the one who aids the catchable uncatchable ruling. The push off happened so early while the ball was in the air that it really didn't matter.

[BigDeal]

If we had won the game despite the officiating, this thread would not exist.

[iHEARTthundar]

I think the bigger statement was every officiating crew we had at home for conference games was horrid, weather its a personal foul for a great LEGAL hit, personal foul for an inbounds out of bounds hit by an official who has another official inbetween him and the play, or where to put the ball after a kickoff out of bounds. Patty needs a few emails about the crap that they have working this conference. Great West officiating was much better.

give me the info... i would LOVE to let them know as a DI school, we would expect to have at least somewhat knowledgable officials at our games!

[NDSUstudent]

I think the bigger statement was every officiating crew we had at home for conference games was horrid, weather its a personal foul for a great LEGAL hit, personal foul for an inbounds out of bounds hit by an official who has another official inbetween him and the play, or where to put the ball after a kickoff out of bounds. Patty needs a few emails about the crap that they have working this conference. Great West officiating was much better.

There is no such thing as Great West refs, we paid the price and got Big Ten refs.

[NDSUstudent]

Uncatchable applies to all pass interference, however the back judge is the one who aids the catchable uncatchable ruling. The push off happened so early while the ball was in the air that it really didn't matter.

I've just never seen a pass interference call where nobody had a chance to catch the pass, our guy supposedly cheated and he was 10 yards away at best.

[missingnumber7]

Usually a no call period...common sense...no harm no foul. If the bunnies had done it probably no call, much like the one later in the game which was much closer and should have been defensive interference and was a no call.

[CaBisonFan]

If we had won the game despite the officiating, this thread would not exist.

Probably not...but 2 major blunders during the last drive handed SDSU a victory drive. As for me...when I'm watching a game...I'll admit to a bad call no matter which way it goes. Losing...in this way...has brought this conversation to the board. It was horrendous. If it hadn't affected the outcome of the game in such a way...you are right...it wouldn't be here. But it did.

[Jdubs21]

reffing today=horrible

[CaBisonFan]

Usually a no call period...common sense...no harm no foul. If the bunnies had done it probably no call, much like the one later in the game which was much closer and should have been defensive interference and was a no call.

There's a comparison call from the game.

DJ hits the pylon with the ball...no TD.

Wabbits do the same...TD.

Maybe this is what the 'commish' was really talking about the other day.

:D

[BisoninNWMN]

Very inconsistent officiating.

Bison had 7 sacks but their O-line was holding many times with no flags:ranting: :ranting:

[Bisonfan1]

If we had won the game despite the officiating, this thread would not exist.

It probably still would, when errors on calls are made that many times in a game, someone needs to get called out on it. Do you think the Jacks want this crew officiating at Brookings next year, I would think not. I dont want to see these guys at the dome again thats for sure. bad, bad, bad. We still had many chances to win the game, bad calls or not.

[Bison"FANatic"]

I am not one to bitch about officiating but that was terrible last night. Unfortunately we will probably be stuck with them as they won't be moving up to a higher conference with that crap. I had to reserve judgement until I could get home and watch the replay.

The hit in the first half was legal and warranted. That was a very good play on a QB that was still in bounds.

The pass interference on us while on defense in the last series was a legit call. He did get there a tiny bit early.

The Helmet to helmet call was horrible he laid a perfect hit with his shoulder pad into the guys chest. That 15 yards was a huge game changer.

Congrats to the rabbits but we can't play against 11 guys and the officiating crew. They were horrible.

To the officials: I hope your wives didn't give you any last night as you were screwing us all night long!!!!!

[Bisonfan1]

I am not one to bitch about officiating but that was terrible last night. Unfortunately we will probably be stuck with them as they won't be moving up to a higher conference with that crap. I had to reserve judgement until I could get home and watch the replay.

The hit in the first half was legal and warranted. That was a very good play on a QB that was still in bounds.

The pass interference on us while on defense in the last series was a legit call. He did get there a tiny bit early.

The Helmet to helmet call was horrible he laid a perfect hit with his shoulder pad into the guys chest. That 15 yards was a huge game changer.

Congrats to the rabbits but we can't play against 11 guys and the officiating crew. They were horrible.

To the officials: I hope your wives didn't give you any last night as you were screwing us all night long!!!!!

HA HA, thanx for the humor on a sore subject. It's gonna be a long day today.

[d3boys]

Yes, the play in the 4th quarter where Belquist was called and the ball still sailed way over his head.

when the whistle was blown and there was a moment of confusion a sdsu fan right above me stood up and hollered very loudly and long
what a horrible call the ball was uncatchable, then it is decided its a offensive penalty nad he sits down and laughs

kind of a picture of the whole game with the calls made

[m11jacks]

Offensive PI was a blown call, phantom hit out of bounds blown, helmet to helmet blown call after seeing the replay. However, should have called unsportsmanlike on the defender for slapping the ball out of receivers hands. Keep in mind, viewers at home have the replay advantage. Officials are asked to make a split second decision on a play like the helmet to helmet.

[bisoneer]

Yes, the play in the 4th quarter where Belquist was called and the ball still sailed way over his head.

Your right, that flag should have been picked up a the very least. The ball was overthrown and Belquist had no chance at it and of course neither did sdsu.

[IzzyFlexion]

Offensive PI was a blown call, phantom hit out of bounds blown, helmet to helmet blown call after seeing the replay. However, should have called unsportsmanlike on the defender for slapping the ball out of receivers hands. Keep in mind, viewers at home have the replay advantage. Officials are asked to make a split second decision on a play like the helmet to helmet.

I thought that the flag was thrown for ball being swatted out of the SDSU player's hand. The replay confirmed that the helmet to helmet call was not warranted. As for split second refereeing, these guys (referees) conferenced about other calls, they certainly could have gathered together to discuss what each other saw on that play as well.

[CaBisonFan]

Offensive PI was a blown call, phantom hit out of bounds blown, helmet to helmet blown call after seeing the replay. However, should have called unsportsmanlike on the defender for slapping the ball out of receivers hands. Keep in mind, viewers at home have the replay advantage. Officials are asked to make a split second decision on a play like the helmet to helmet.

About the unsportsmanlike non-call...I agree. When the penalty flag went down, I initially thought it was about slapping the ball away from the receiver when he held it up to show the completion. That was stoooopid.

I also agree about the split second decisions...but there were too many splits in one direction at a very critical part of the game.

[BisManBison]

The conference should be embarrassed by the officials they've sent to Fargo this year. Just the latest example of the incompetence that is officiating in this conference.

I normally don't get too worked up about the officiating because they normally don't play a big role in the outcome...and we still had a chance to win last night's game despite playing against 17 at times. The biggest problem I have with what happened last night is that two of the bad calls were called by officials that have no business throwing flags when they did. The fat @$$ donut eatin mo fo of a referree throws the flag for that late hit when there are two other officials right in front of the play???? He had to call that from 20 yards up field. And the two sackless pieces of dog shit that were right there didn't have the balls to correct him???? Pathetic, aboslutely pathetic.

And can someone explain to me how the line judge is calling offensive pass interference 15 yards down field. The side judge, who is responsible for watching the receiver and defensive back didn't see pass interference. Well, at least the crew last night knew where to place the ball on the re-kick after it was kicked out of bounds...:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

Ok, I feel a little better after venting. Congratulations on the victory Jacks...good luck in the playoffs.

[A1pigskin]

It was crap!!!!!!!!!:banghead: :banghead:

[Thunder_Struck]

Didn't read all the threads so I'm sorry if this is has already been answered, but I was wondering if the ball has to be catchable to call offensive pass interference like it does for defensive pass interference? When the ref threw his flag on Belquist for offensive pass interfernce the few Jacks fans near me immediately started screaming that it could not be pass interference because it was not catchable.

[missingnumber7]

There's a comparison call from the game.

DJ hits the pylon with the ball...no TD.

Wabbits do the same...TD.

Maybe this is what the 'commish' was really talking about the other day.

:D

Ummm...watch the DJ play again...he puts his hand down out of bounds before touching the ball to the pylon. SDSU guy hits the pylon first. Theres a difference between being a fan and knowing the rules.

[CarringtonBison]

simply put-the officiating was terrible and they should not be allowed to work a college game again, ever. What is the process for them to be graded/critiqued by the league?

IMHO, the officiating was the reason that we lost the game. Yes we missed FG, threw the INT, etc., but it gave them yards, took away MO, etc. SDSU played a great game and kudos to them, but a well officiated game may have turned out different.

One blown/bad call is one thing, but several............cmon

[roadwarrior]

I think that there is a process for coaches to make complaints about the officials directly to the conference headquarters. Since all games are now recorded digitally, they simply forward the clips of the questionable calls to the head of officials.

Coaches are not supposed to be vocal about their complaints in public.

[BisManBison]

I think that there is a process for coaches to make complaints about the officials directly to the conference headquarters. Since all games are now recorded digitally, they simply forward the clips of the questionable calls to the head of officials.

Coaches are not supposed to be vocal about their complaints in public.

And that's why Coach Bohl makes the comments he does. Isn't worth complaining publicly and risking a suspension now is it? Certainly isn't going to change the calls. I know it may be hard for some of you to understand this concept, but that's called professionalism.

[MAKBison]

And that's why Coach Bohl makes the comments he does. Isn't worth complaining publicly and risking a suspension now is it? Certainly isn't going to change the calls. I know it may be hard for some of you to understand this concept, but that's called professionalism.


Act like a professional you will get treated like one….the Refs this year were not professional. I understand a missed call once in awhile, but ….Shit spots all year long, confusion in the rules…the rules!!! Refs calling penalties on their third responsibility when the ref with the first responsibility is right there to make the call, it goes on and on!:smh: :smh: :smh: :smh: :smh: :smh: :smh:

BTW it not about Professionalism---Its about maintaining an image and controlling perception! Censuring the coach is about control!!!!!

[bisonmike2]

I wish we'd stop bitching about the officiating. We weren't the only team to have sh@t calls go against us. I guessing that in every game we thought we got screwed in, you could find an opposing fan that feels the same number of calls went against them. Good teams don't get let themselves get beat by officiating.

[NDFAN2]

If we had won the game despite the officiating, this thread would not exist.

I disagree. The officials were not on their game on Saturday night. It deserves its own thread reguardless.

I think the refs should have been awarded the Dakota Marker.

[SDbison]

Fact is, the officiating sucked but the Bison sucked worse!

[bisonmike2]

Fact is, the officiating sucked but the Bison sucked worse!

Amen. I've said it before and I'll say it again. The Bison let a concussed QB drive for the game winning TD. Also, they failed to stop SDSU on a 2 point conversion. If we stop that 2 point conversion we are in run the clock out mode. We give the ball to Roehl and tell him to go out and win the game. Mertens doesn't have to feel like he needs to chuck the ball downfield and we probably win the game.

[SDbison]

Amen. I've said it before and I'll say it again. The Bison let a concussed QB drive for the game winning TD. Also, they failed to stop SDSU on a 2 point conversion. If we stop that 2 point conversion we are in run the clock out mode. We give the ball to Roehl and tell him to go out and win the game. Mertens doesn't have to feel like he needs to chuck the ball downfield and we probably win the game.
Also prior to the SDSU game winning drive, the Mertens led, inconsistent NDSU offense failed to put the ball in the endzone after getting the football on the 24 yardline after a blocked punt in their own house. That score would have pretty much ended the game. Disappointment after disappointment! Bison deserved to lose.

[jimmyjack]

Frame grabs of some of the controversial plays:

1. A couple NDSU fans have argued that Roehl was not down on a play where Kjerstad knocked his legs out from under him. Um... here we see his elbow is down. That was followed by his shoulder, his butt, and his knee. He got up and ran. But he was definitely down.

http://www.newsrant.org/roehl.jpg

2. There was some talk that Minett wasn't in on the first two-pointer. Here you see him about to smack the football into the pylon. I'm not posting it, but a few frames later, you see the pylon laid down with the football sitting on top of it.

http://www.newsrant.org/minett.jpg

3. Last drive: Interference. Is there any part of the defender that is NOT in contact with JaRon Harris. That's the ball, five yards away in the upper left.

http://www.newsrant.org/interference.jpg

4. Helmet-to-helmet. Maybe the defender was trying to hit with his shoulder, but as you can see he ended up leading the contact with his helmet. In the frames before this one, you see Harris' head jerked towards the end zone by the helmet contact.

http://www.newsrant.org/helmet.jpg

I'll definitely concede the first half unnecessary roughness penalty on Berry was a bad call. There were a couple of interference calls, an offensive interference on the Bison and a defensive interference on Kjerstad that were questionable. But that's football.

[IndyBison]

I normally don't get too worked up about the officiating because they normally don't play a big role in the outcome...and we still had a chance to win last night's game despite playing against 17 at times. The biggest problem I have with what happened last night is that two of the bad calls were called by officials that have no business throwing flags when they did. The fat @$$ donut eatin mo fo of a referree throws the flag for that late hit when there are two other officials right in front of the play???? He had to call that from 20 yards up field. And the two sackless pieces of dog shit that were right there didn't have the balls to correct him???? Pathetic, aboslutely pathetic.

And can someone explain to me how the line judge is calling offensive pass interference 15 yards down field. The side judge, who is responsible for watching the receiver and defensive back didn't see pass interference. Well, at least the crew last night knew where to place the ball on the re-kick after it was kicked out of bounds...:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

Ok, I feel a little better after venting. Congratulations on the victory Jacks...good luck in the playoffs.
I will probably regret this again but I will try to educate fans about officiating. OPI restrictions start at the snap. DPI doesn't start until the ball is thrown. The thinking is the offensive player knows what play is called. If he initiates contact before the ball is thrown he is either indicating to the defense that it's a running play or he's committing a foul for OPI. I haven't seen the play but based on the descriptions, I'm guessing that's what happened. If it happened early, the catchability of the pass is irrelevant. Also, each official (other than the Referee or Umpire) has responsibility for one of the eligible receivers so whoever had this receiver is the one who should throw the flag. If anyone else has it early in the play, they are watching the wrong receiver. You indicate the SJ should have had this call but it probably wasn't his initial key.

You also mention the R had the late hit on the QB. That actually makes sense because that it his primary responsibility on any play. I have no idea how far the QB was downfield on the hit but if he was fairly close to the LOS, the wings and BJ are still focused on blocking in front of the runner and aren't watching the runner as closely. That's why a guy 20 yards away will throw the flag and not the guy right in front of the play. They have different responsibilities and are watching very different and specific things on each play. Most fans don't realize it and why it is very easy for officials to know if a fan (or coach or player for that matter) have a clue as to how officiating works.

These calls could still be wrong but if you are going to criticize the officials for the work they did, you should at least be aware of how they work.

I know I'll get blasted for trying to educate fans on officiating but I at least want to try.

[IndyBison]

simply put-the officiating was terrible and they should not be allowed to work a college game again, ever. What is the process for them to be graded/critiqued by the league?

IMHO, the officiating was the reason that we lost the game. Yes we missed FG, threw the INT, etc., but it gave them yards, took away MO, etc. SDSU played a great game and kudos to them, but a well officiated game may have turned out different.

One blown/bad call is one thing, but several............cmon
Every game and every official on the D1 level are reviewed and graded very closely. If there were actually several bad calls in this game, they would affect the officials rating and their ability to get playoff games or stay in the conference next year. There is not an "old boy" network at play here. If they are truly failing they will not be back. As I've stated before though they are a lot more correct than most fans realize. I've tried to explain the OPI and late hit/roughing penalty and someone else corrected the two pylon plays. Vent as much as you want but realize the officials are much better than you realize.

[MAKBison]

I wish we'd stop bitching about the officiating. We weren't the only team to have sh@t calls go against us. I guessing that in every game we thought we got screwed in, you could find an opposing fan that feels the same number of calls went against them. Good teams don't get let themselves get beat by officiating.

Notice many post say the refs sucked period...not just on SU calls.

[IndyBison]

I think that there is a process for coaches to make complaints about the officials directly to the conference headquarters. Since all games are now recorded digitally, they simply forward the clips of the questionable calls to the head of officials.

Coaches are not supposed to be vocal about their complaints in public.
I know in the Big 10 and NFL the coaches don't have to send tapes in of questionable calls. The leagues already have the video. The coaches just indicate which play(s) they would like a response on. Not sure if the MVFC is that advanced or not but as I stated on the other post, most plays are probably reviewed anyway by the officiating supervisor.

[MAKBison]

Frame grabs of some of the controversial plays:

1. A couple NDSU fans have argued that Roehl was not down on a play where Kjerstad knocked his legs out from under him. Um... here we see his elbow is down. That was followed by his shoulder, his butt, and his knee. He got up and ran. But he was definitely down.

http://www.newsrant.org/roehl.jpg

2. There was some talk that Minett wasn't in on the first two-pointer. Here you see him about to smack the football into the pylon. I'm not posting it, but a few frames later, you see the pylon laid down with the football sitting on top of it.

http://www.newsrant.org/minett.jpg

3. Last drive: Interference. Is there any part of the defender that is NOT in contact with JaRon Harris. That's the ball, five yards away in the upper left.

http://www.newsrant.org/interference.jpg

4. Helmet-to-helmet. Maybe the defender was trying to hit with his shoulder, but as you can see he ended up leading the contact with his helmet. In the frames before this one, you see Harris' head jerked towards the end zone by the helmet contact.

http://www.newsrant.org/helmet.jpg

I'll definitely concede the first half unnecessary roughness penalty on Berry was a bad call. There were a couple of interference calls, an offensive interference on the Bison and a defensive interference on Kjerstad that were questionable. But that's football.


I agree with every frame except the last one....It shows his head to the side of SD player....ND hit him with his shoulder...leading with your head means hitting with the crown of the helmet ND did not lead with his head!!!

As to the interference call….the reason it is interference is because of the hand to the shoulder…ND grabbed him for a split second. ND did not pull him, stop him, or change the ED kids direction mind you he simply grabbed and released him...it was a ticky-tacky call....had ND not grabbed SD it is a no call....the ND player has every right to that spot.

[CarringtonBison]

I think it is time to let it die. The calls sucked. I don't disagree with 1, 2, 3. 4 however is a shitty call-very poor as the picture dictates. Shoulder to chest is not helmet to helmet.

IndyBison, the late hit call was 30 yards downfield as the QB was running down the sideline inbounds. Humber hit him (huge legal hit) and sent him flying about 5 yards out of bounds-truly a terrible call.

BTW, I got over blaming the refs for this. They played a factor on the outcome, no doubt, but I do give the Jacks credit where credit is due. We lost. They won and congrats. I take nothing away from SDSU on this.

The big issue is that the refs need to not be allowed to ref again!!

[mgbison]

thread needs to die. period. btw, if lemon would have lead with the helmet, i don't think either player would've gotten up. the problem with football is if you hit a guy too hard the refs are going to make calls like that. Makes me exicited for next year, with Belmont, Lemon, Evans the refs should get used to seeing hits like that. If anything they should flag the QB for leaving the receiver out to dry. I give credit where it's due though, great catch.

[missingnumber7]

The officiating sucked all year long at home. It didn't matter who we were playing or who got the calls. Calls went horribly both ways and sometimes the bison were benefited and other times the visiting teams benefited. The issue with MVFC officials is that they are bad and it needs to be addressed. We don't get the good crews in Fargo because they don't want to eat the cost of coming here on Thursday.

[ndsubison1]

Frame grabs of some of the controversial plays:

1. A couple NDSU fans have argued that Roehl was not down on a play where Kjerstad knocked his legs out from under him. Um... here we see his elbow is down. That was followed by his shoulder, his butt, and his knee. He got up and ran. But he was definitely down.

http://www.newsrant.org/roehl.jpg

2. There was some talk that Minett wasn't in on the first two-pointer. Here you see him about to smack the football into the pylon. I'm not posting it, but a few frames later, you see the pylon laid down with the football sitting on top of it.

http://www.newsrant.org/minett.jpg

3. Last drive: Interference. Is there any part of the defender that is NOT in contact with JaRon Harris. That's the ball, five yards away in the upper left.

http://www.newsrant.org/interference.jpg

4. Helmet-to-helmet. Maybe the defender was trying to hit with his shoulder, but as you can see he ended up leading the contact with his helmet. In the frames before this one, you see Harris' head jerked towards the end zone by the helmet contact.

http://www.newsrant.org/helmet.jpg

I'll definitely concede the first half unnecessary roughness penalty on Berry was a bad call. There were a couple of interference calls, an offensive interference on the Bison and a defensive interference on Kjerstad that were questionable. But that's football.

i don't know if you can tell if he actually hit the pylon there. also I would like to see a photo of McNorton's play as well...

also, there is no evidence that there was helmet to helmet contact, you just cant tell from that photo

[IndyBison]

IndyBison, the late hit call was 30 yards downfield as the QB was running down the sideline inbounds. Humber hit him (huge legal hit) and sent him flying about 5 yards out of bounds-truly a terrible call.
Thanks. Are you sure it was a late hit call? Did the official have a microphone and explain that? Are you sure the late hit was against the QB? It's possible someone well behind the play committed a personal foul and that is what the R saw. I'm not doubting, just asking more clarification questions.

Even if it was a late hit 30 yards downfield, it's still possible the white hat would have it. The wing officials have different responsibilities and can sometimes be to close to see all the action. For example, they wouldn't know if the player was blocked into someone late because their field of vision is narrow. Other officials (R, U, and BJ in this case) have a broader field of vision and are sometimes in better position to see things like late hits. Don't assume the player closest to it saw it and passed on it because he doesn't always have the best view of things like this.

[BisManBison]

Indybison,

The white hat had his mic on and called it a late hit out of bounds. Clearly a blown call. What's worse, is the other two spineless jellyfish right there didn't correct him for making such an obviously bad call.

[IndyBison]

Indybison,

The white hat had his mic on and called it a late hit out of bounds. Clearly a blown call. What's worse, is the other two spineless jellyfish right there didn't correct him for making such an obviously bad call.

Thanks for the clarification. You are absolutely wrong to criticize the two officials who are "right there" because often being "right there" you sometimes don't have a good view of the entire play to rule late hit. Trust me that late hits are often easier to see from a distance than right in front of you. The wing officials often have other responsibilities at that point (i.e. spot, possession, blocking). I'm still not saying this was the right call but it is not unusual for an official 20 yards from the play to have a better view of some aspect of the play than the guy right next to it.

[jimmyjack]

i don't know if you can tell if he actually hit the pylon there. also I would like to see a photo of McNorton's play as well...

also, there is no evidence that there was helmet to helmet contact, you just cant tell from that photo

I don't have the frame grab here, but the NDSU player hit the pylon clearly and was in for the TD. That was a bad call. Roehl took it in on the next play, though.

[IndyBison]

I don't have the frame grab here, but the NDSU player hit the pylon clearly and was in for the TD. That was a bad call. Roehl took it in on the next play, though.
Was he airborn when he hit the pylon or did he still have a foot on the ground? If he was airborn, the ball is out of bounds where it crossed the sideline plane and then touched something out of bounds (i.e. pylon). If he hit anything besides the inside of the pylon then he was out of bounds before he touched the pylon. If he still had a foot on the ground when he hit the pylon, it should have been a touchdown. This is a bang-bang type of play and the official did not have the benefit of frame-by-frame like you did, but he should still get it right.

Before I became an official I had no idea there were so many conditions and exceptions with the rules. It all seemed so simple and straight forward. Unfortunately it's not which makes me impressed with how well college and pro officials get it right 95% of the time.

[missingnumber7]

Thanks for the clarification. You are absolutely wrong to criticize the two officials who are "right there" because often being "right there" you sometimes don't have a good view of the entire play to rule late hit. Trust me that late hits are often easier to see from a distance than right in front of you. The wing officials often have other responsibilities at that point (i.e. spot, possession, blocking). I'm still not saying this was the right call but it is not unusual for an official 20 yards from the play to have a better view of some aspect of the play than the guy right next to it.

I completely disagree with you on this. As an official myself, that is your first responsibility is to be aware of the players. If you are officiating at that level on a field as well marked as the FFD is then you know where the ball will go, you stay with the players for their safety. The thing about it that bothered me is the White hat threw the flag, when the play was dead completed the call by making the announcement and away they went. There was no discussion. The Line Judge looked at the flag as it bounced at his feet with supprise.

[missingnumber7]

Was he airborn when he hit the pylon or did he still have a foot on the ground? If he was airborn, the ball is out of bounds where it crossed the sideline plane and then touched something out of bounds (i.e. pylon). If he hit anything besides the inside of the pylon then he was out of bounds before he touched the pylon. If he still had a foot on the ground when he hit the pylon, it should have been a touchdown. This is a bang-bang type of play and the official did not have the benefit of frame-by-frame like you did, but he should still get it right.

Before I became an official I had no idea there were so many conditions and exceptions with the rules. It all seemed so simple and straight forward. Unfortunately it's not which makes me impressed with how well college and pro officials get it right 95% of the time.

I believe there was a replay that showed him putting his hand down out of bounds before the ball hit the pylon.

[IndyBison]

I completely disagree with you on this. As an official myself, that is your first responsibility is to be aware of the players. If you are officiating at that level on a field as well marked as the FFD is then you know where the ball will go, you stay with the players for their safety. The thing about it that bothered me is the White hat threw the flag, when the play was dead completed the call by making the announcement and away they went. There was no discussion. The Line Judge looked at the flag as it bounced at his feet with supprise.
I have the disadvantage of not seeing the play. I have no idea where the officials were in relation to the play that took place but I've come to learn that fans have very little knowledge about mechanics and keys and watch the game with their fan glasses on (understandable). That always makes things look different than they are. A common incorrect complaint by fans is the "wrong" official threw the flag and the official right in front of the play didn't have anything. I just try to explain to fans why that is often not the case.

I agree the officials stay with the players but if I don't see how the defensive player ended up in the situation, I can't flag him for the late hit. It's possible he was blocked into the play. The wider official has a better view of this.

It's good to know there is another official out there who can try help educate fellow Bison fans. Like I said previously, there is so much more to officiating than most fans realize. Most of the complaining you see from coaches, players, and fans is a result of lack of knowledge. They aren't stupid. They just don't know what they don't know. What level do you officiate?

[IndyBison]

The officiating sucked all year long at home. It didn't matter who we were playing or who got the calls. Calls went horribly both ways and sometimes the bison were benefited and other times the visiting teams benefited. The issue with MVFC officials is that they are bad and it needs to be addressed. We don't get the good crews in Fargo because they don't want to eat the cost of coming here on Thursday.
Now that I know you are an official this comment confuses me. The MVFC assigns their crews to these games so the crews the Bison get are no different than the crews the other schools get. I don't know how many crews there are but I'm guessing it's no more than 5 or 6. I know one of the referees so I can find out. He's worked a couple games in Fargo and I know he is a very good official (has spent some time in then NFL).

[IndyBison]

I believe there was a replay that showed him putting his hand down out of bounds before the ball hit the pylon.
That's right. I think someone else already mentioned that. Another example of why the ball hitting the pylon is not a TD...it was already dead.

BTW...a friend of mine is working the Vikings game tonight! He had the horse collar tackle call near the end of the first half. I give him a lot of grief because he worked the Vikings playoff losses against the Falcons (NFC Championship), Giants (41-0), and Eagles (after the Packers upset win).

[missingnumber7]

Now that I know you are an official this comment confuses me. The MVFC assigns their crews to these games so the crews the Bison get are no different than the crews the other schools get. I don't know how many crews there are but I'm guessing it's no more than 5 or 6. I know one of the referees so I can find out. He's worked a couple games in Fargo and I know he is a very good official (has spent some time in then NFL).

The comment I got from one of the guys on the chain crew who refs with me. I know there are more than 5 or 6 because we didn't have the same crew twice at home, and I can't remember having the same crew twice. I could be wrong. But I think that the quality of the officiating in the MVFC needs to be addressed.

[missingnumber7]

It's good to know there is another official out there who can try help educate fellow Bison fans. Like I said previously, there is so much more to officiating than most fans realize. Most of the complaining you see from coaches, players, and fans is a result of lack of knowledge. They aren't stupid. They just don't know what they don't know. What level do you officiate?

Mostly high school. I do lots of little kids stuff, 1 because it pays good and 2 because its incredibly fun to do on Sat morning. I love putting on the stripes it gives me a chance to be back on the field, and share my love of the game in a different way.

[IndyBison]

Mostly high school. I do lots of little kids stuff, 1 because it pays good and 2 because its incredibly fun to do on Sat morning. I love putting on the stripes it gives me a chance to be back on the field, and share my love of the game in a different way.
I wish more people would give it a try. It's a great way to stay tied to the game and earn a few extra dollars (not too many though). The kids games are the best way to make money because you can work several games in a day. The coaches and parents can drive you nuts at this level though.

There is a serious shortage for officials in most parts of the country so having more people try it will lead to more good officials. College conferences still have long applicant lists of good officials which is why they will get rid of an official who consistently makes bad calls. The same is not true at the high school level and below. There are some very bad officials out there at that level and it would be nice to replace them. If you have ever even remotely thought about it, I recommend you strongly consider it. Send me a PM or contact your state high school athletic association to get started.

[IzzyFlexion]

I wish more people would give it a try. It's a great way to stay tied to the game and earn a few extra dollars (not too many though). The kids games are the best way to make money because you can work several games in a day. The coaches and parents can drive you nuts at this level though.

There is a serious shortage for officials in most parts of the country so having more people try it will lead to more good officials. College conferences still have long applicant lists of good officials which is why they will get rid of an official who consistently makes bad calls. The same is not true at the high school level and below. There are some very bad officials out there at that level and it would be nice to replace them. If you have ever even remotely thought about it, I recommend you strongly consider it. Send me a PM or contact your state high school athletic association to get started.

Perhaps the shortage is due to guys who are interested attend some of these Pop Warner level games and have second thoughts when some of these "nut job" fathers/mothers crucify them over a call made in game of little kids. We've all seen this and I for one flat out get nauseous when I see it. Sad.

[IndyBison]

Perhaps the shortage is due to guys who are interested attend some of these Pop Warner level games and have second thoughts when some of these "nut job" fathers/mothers crucify them over a call made in game of little kids. We've all seen this and I for one flat out get nauseous when I see it. Sad.
That is definitely prevents some people from trying and others who start from continuing. My youth experiences were generally positive. Most of the issue is these "nut job" parents just don't know the rules or they try to apply the rules they see on Saturday/Sunday (i.e. "He was out of the pocket" or "He can jump back if the ball isn't snapped").

[missingnumber7]

I wish more people would give it a try. It's a great way to stay tied to the game and earn a few extra dollars (not too many though). The kids games are the best way to make money because you can work several games in a day. The coaches and parents can drive you nuts at this level though.

There is a serious shortage for officials in most parts of the country so having more people try it will lead to more good officials. College conferences still have long applicant lists of good officials which is why they will get rid of an official who consistently makes bad calls. The same is not true at the high school level and below. There are some very bad officials out there at that level and it would be nice to replace them. If you have ever even remotely thought about it, I recommend you strongly consider it. Send me a PM or contact your state high school athletic association to get started.

Or you can PM me and I can give you contact information for people here in Fargo. Its fun and rewarding all in one, plus not a bad pay day.

I wish I could make the right connections to move up to the next level, but I like doing HS games enough as is.

[IndyBison]

Or you can PM me and I can give you contact information for people here in Fargo. Its fun and rewarding all in one, plus not a bad pay day.

I wish I could make the right connections to move up to the next level, but I like doing HS games enough as is.

What do they pay in ND? Here in Indy the usual pay is $25-$40 per game for youth, $50 for frosh/JV (they don't have sophomore teams), and $60-$70 for varsity. Not enough to make you rich but really good spending money.

I would especially recommend it to guys currently in college. If the youth leagues are on Saturday mornings like most parts of the country, a guy could make $150-$200 working serveral games in a day. Add some JH, freshman, JV during the week and look out Chubs! You would have to work a few nights at Best Buy to make that kind of money. Plus you get to learn a skill you can use throughout your life. A friend of mine did this when he was in college and he's now an Umpire in the Big 10!!

[missingnumber7]

What do they pay in ND? Here in Indy the usual pay is $25-$40 per game for youth, $50 for frosh/JV (they don't have sophomore teams), and $60-$70 for varsity. Not enough to make you rich but really good spending money.

I would especially recommend it to guys currently in college. If the youth leagues are on Saturday mornings like most parts of the country, a guy could make $150-$200 working serveral games in a day. Add some JH, freshman, JV during the week and look out Chubs! You would have to work a few nights at Best Buy to make that kind of money. Plus you get to learn a skill you can use throughout your life. A friend of mine did this when he was in college and he's now an Umpire in the Big 10!!

ND is 64.50 for a friday night varsity game, something like 25-40 for fresh-JV. FM athletics pays more than 25/game no matter how old the kids are. If you are in college and looking there are lots of opportunity and you can work a double header sat mornings before the game. I thought a certain member of the board told me that they will be an officiating class at NDSU for football and basketball but you would have to ask B1SON to be sure. His dad is an official and he's worked several bison games.

[clenz]

I do football and baseball here in Iowa. Baseball is $75 for a JV double header, and varsity is $90 for a single game and $140ish for a tourney for baseball. Football usually runs about $90 for a Friday night. I'm only 20, but have started working my way into the small college ranks (D3 and NAIA) for baseball. I know the guy who heads the umpiring association for the JUCO's in Iowa, he is also involved with the Missouri Valley Baseball Conference. Maybe some day I'll work my way up to D1.

[IndyBison]

I do football and baseball here in Iowa. Baseball is $75 for a JV double header, and varsity is $90 for a single game and $140ish for a tourney for baseball. Football usually runs about $90 for a Friday night. I'm only 20, but have started working my way into the small college ranks (D3 and NAIA) for baseball. I know the guy who heads the umpiring association for the JUCO's in Iowa, he is also involved with the Missouri Valley Baseball Conference. Maybe some day I'll work my way up to D1.

Good luck! Stick with it and you will do well getting started that young. I have a couple friends in the NFL as well and their advice has been, enjoy the level where you are and don't try to move up too fast. You will put off the people are trying to help you. They all say the most fun they've had officiating anything was at the high school level. The one guy officiated last year's Super Bowl though and said that was pretty fun too. ;)

I work with several baseball umpires here and may do it when my kids are grown (my youngest is 4 so that's several years away). One guy who officiates football in the MAC also does MAC and MVBC baseball. Another friend works some MVBC but has also worked the NAIA World Series in Idaho the past 3 years (they do 4 year rotations so this is his last year).

$90 for a varsity football game!! I can only wish. We are just now moving up to $70. A year ago some schools still paid $50 or $55. When you get to the playoffs, the IHSAA pays and their rate for the first 3 rounds is $50. They do pay mileage for eah official but it's only 20 cents/mile. The joke is we all take a pay cut to work playoff games.

[IndyBison]

ND is 64.50 for a friday night varsity game, something like 25-40 for fresh-JV. FM athletics pays more than 25/game no matter how old the kids are. If you are in college and looking there are lots of opportunity and you can work a double header sat mornings before the game. I thought a certain member of the board told me that they will be an officiating class at NDSU for football and basketball but you would have to ask B1SON to be sure. His dad is an official and he's worked several bison games.
I have talked to several people who said they took an officiating class in college. It must be fairly common. If you are in school, check it out. What a great way to get an easy gym credit!

[clenz]

For tourney time I don't know the rates. I haven't applied for post season games because I'm a student and giving up 9 Friday nights in the fall is enough for me...lol...


The IAHSAA I believe does 32 cents per mile and I think the state title games for baseball is around $120.

If I could find my hand book for either football or baseball I could give a full answer on this. I know I have 13 baseball dates booked already for this coming summer, 10 varsity and 3 JV dates. The JV dates are $75, $80, and $65. The varsity range from $90-$150(Saturday tourney).

I'll probably end up picking up 7-15 more dates by the time the season starts, and I'm sure their will be rain dates that I may lose/gain some games.


This past summer I picked up about $4,500 extra cash by umping. Not bad for a 20 year old, who is also coaching a MS baseball team and working 35 hours a week. I was home/slept about 4 hours a night from early May-Mid July though, which sucked. However, I suggest doing it if you truly love the sport.

[UTH]

Speaking of bad officiating - the refs are totally GIFTING the MAC championship game to Buffalo U.:banghead:

[56BISON73]

Speaking of bad officiating - the refs are totally GIFTING the MAC championship game to Buffalo U.:banghead:

You noticed that also did you. LOL

But Ball U hasnt helped there own cause either. PL

[UTH]

You noticed that also did you. LOL

But Ball U hasnt helped there own cause either. PL

True that. Big fumbles let defense score do much big terribad.


Methinks BSU's meltdown started with the denied touchdown, though.

[IndyBison]

Speaking of bad officiating - the refs are totally GIFTING the MAC championship game to Buffalo U.:banghead:
I only saw bits and pieces but the goal line play that was ruled short was a pretty close call. As soon as his foot hit the pylon he was out. Wherever the ball was at that point is where it was dead. The first few times I watched the replay I thought TD but I could see where it was close enough to not overturn. That would have put BSU up 10 in the third but instead Buffalo had a TD the other way 2 plays later.

The other one I thought initially should have been ruled dead was the 4th and 1 at the BSU 30ish that was ruled a fumble. On replay he was still making an attempt to move forward and had his feet when the ball stripped. On replay it looked like a good call. I didn't see any others but again I only saw about 10% of the game. I saw the replay of the fumbles and they were all legit so you can't blame the officials for the loss.

[IndyBison]

Methinks BSU's meltdown started with the denied touchdown, though.
Davis just tried to get aggressive on the run and it paid off. I don't think the "denied" TD had anything to do with that. The fumble return definitely had a huge impact though. By rule I think the official got it right. That is so tough and bang-bang though. Even on replay.

[UTH]

Davis just tried to get aggressive on the run and it paid off. I don't think the "denied" TD had anything to do with that. The fumble return definitely had a huge impact though. By rule I think the official got it right. That is so tough and bang-bang though. Even on replay.

I'm just saying that the DENIED TD seemed to be the turning point. Those subsequent fumbles were definitely either created or the result of 'being elsewhere'. meltdown.

[TheDoctor]

I'm just saying that the DENIED TD seemed to be the turning point. Those subsequent fumbles were definitely either created or the result of 'being elsewhere'. meltdown.

Good point Herd! ;)