Fargo South @ Edina

[Shawn-O]

Edina destroyed South 40-6 earlier tonight, in case anyone cares.

[TheBisonator]

Edina is a bunch of filthy c**ks**kers.

(St. Louis Park grad, here)

[lakesbison]

kinda unfair for any ND high school team to play a twin cities team ... quite frankly.. nite and day.

[ThunderDan]

kinda unfair for any ND high school team to play a twin cities team ... quite frankly.. nite and day.

Yeah, maybe now North Dakota folks will realize that the best ND team in ANY sport would not even come close to beating a decent MN team. (we are talking high school here) And don't give me any BS about Twin Cities teams are just too big....South has a bigger enrollment than most suburban schools.

[ndsubison1]

This is a down year for South, they don;t have as many seniors as in years past or talent. They will still be one of the best, but this is a down year as far as talent wise, not just at south but statewide. It would have been interesting to see these two teams play the past two seasons. Anyways, Minneapolis area teams should beat ND teams, the MPLS/STP area has more people than the state of ND.

[Shawn-O]

They were section runner-up to Eden Prairie last season, so I wasn't surprised by the outcome so much as the margin of victory. I understand South had a 2-season unbeaten string?

[BisManBison]

South only returned 4 or 5 starters, so the outcome wasn't too surprising, but the margin is a little surprising.

[d3boys]

Yeah, maybe now North Dakota folks will realize that the best ND team in ANY sport would not even come close to beating a decent MN team. (we are talking high school here) And don't give me any BS about Twin Cities teams are just too big....South has a bigger enrollment than most suburban schools.

this statement hardly deserves reply
in each sport nd best can play with majority of mn
dont go by this 1 game, it would have been interesting to see this matchup 2 years ago

by the way 2001 fargo south soccer #1 in nd beat #1 in mn edina 1-0
actually every year there is an example of a nd team beating a mn team
the depth obviously goes to mn but nd best can compete

[BlueBisonRock]

this statement hardly deserves reply


That part of your quote said it all.

[4mcruenomore]

I really do get tired of the MN is better than ND comments.
For what it's worth Bismarck St. Mary's destroyed some team from Proctor MN 39-12. Proctor is a AAA team from just outside of Duluth coming off of 22-2 seasons and 2 straight championships. St. Mary's on the other hand is a cellar dwellar, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think they've only won 2 games in the last 2 years. I know for a fact they are going to drop down to AA next year even. They also still run the option offense I think.

Besides, BHS is the team to beat this year, and predicted to win it all for AAA in ND.

As far as comparing other sports, I know of some girls basketball teams that actually proved it on a more national level, that being 1996 Shanley and Mandan girls basketball teams. Both traveled to Denver CO that year and ended up playing eachother for the championship of that tourney. I know that was a few years ago, but my wife was on the Shanley team that year and gets just as peaved as I do of the MN > ND comments. Those 2 years of Shanley girls BB would have played with anybody, and she knows it. Winning back to back state titles in ND.

It's hard to make such a bold statement that MN HS sports is better than ND in all aspects.

[SirHinn]

I really do get tired of the MN is better than ND comments.
For what it's worth Bismarck St. Mary's destroyed some team from Proctor MN 39-12. Proctor is a AAA team from just outside of Duluth coming off of 22-2 seasons and 2 straight championships. St. Mary's on the other hand is a cellar dwellar, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think they've only won 2 games in the last 2 years. I know for a fact they are going to drop down to AA next year even. They also still run the option offense I think.

Besides, BHS is the team to beat this year, and predicted to win it all for AAA in ND.

As far as comparing other sports, I know of some girls basketball teams that actually proved it on a more national level, that being 1996 Shanley and Mandan girls basketball teams. Both traveled to Denver CO that year and ended up playing eachother for the championship of that tourney. I know that was a few years ago, but my wife was on the Shanley team that year and gets just as peaved as I do of the MN > ND comments. Those 2 years of Shanley girls BB would have played with anybody, and she knows it. Winning back to back state titles in ND.

It's hard to make such a bold statement that MN HS sports is better than ND in all aspects.

The problem with your statement is your discussing a AAA team in Minnesota versus a AAA team in ND. The difference between a AAAAA team and a AAA team in Minnesota is night and day. The talent differential between the top teams in Minnesota and the top teams in ND is so huge, it's almost not worth discussing. If you don't think the talent difference is huge, simply check out how many more kids are getting division 1 scholarships from Minnesota versus ND. It's almost harder to make a statement that MN HS sports aren't better then ND in all aspects. They have more quality players to chose from and they go against much higher competition on a nightly basis.
The best comparison with North Dakota and Minnesota bball is Nick Jacobsen. He was arguably one of the top 3 best players in the State of North Dakota has produced within the last 15 years and in Minneapolis he was 2nd or 3rd team all state? He'll be the first to tell how how huge the talent differential is and Jeff Boschee will say the same thing.

[tony]

Definitely a lot more kids and thus more talent in MN. OTOH, year in and year out, North Dakota HS track is as good or better than Minnesota. I think the advantage in numbers MN has is mitigated by their love of huge high schools in which only a tiny fraction of the student body can participate in extracurricular activies (at least compared to North Dakota).

[roper1313]

Very tough to compare this South team to the last two. I would have loved to see the South team 2 years ago play some of the big boys in the twin cities. Their OL averaged close to 300# and they had two dynamic palymakers in the backfield (Solum and Horner). Wasn't south a top 25 (nationally) that year?

The biggest problem this year is that the expected QB transfered to a prep power in PA. South had no threat through the air and Edina stacked the box and dominated a smallish offensive line.

[roper1313]

Don't forget golf. I know that in past years South boys would go down to the U of MN meet and consistently finish in the top 3.

There is no doubt in boys track. We would march down to the Carelton Relays and destroy the metro teams in the early 90s. They just couldn't handle our depth.

[lakesbison]

"The difference between a AAAAA team and a AAA team in Minnesota is night and day"

Accurate, Accurate, Accurate.

[tony]

There is no doubt in boys track. We would march down to the Carelton Relays and destroy the metro teams in the early 90s. They just couldn't handle our depth.

IMO, North Dakota Girls track is even better on a national scale than boys. What makes that interesting to me is that you can bluster back and forth about football and basketball but there is no BS when it comes to comparing, say, one 400 meter time to another. Obviously, Minnesota has more talent but for whatever reason it doesn't get developed like it does in North Dakota (like I said, I blame low participation due to huge class sizes). Good for NDSU track because they are able to pick up a lot of diamonds in the rough from MN.

[bisonmike2]

Yeah, maybe now North Dakota folks will realize that the best ND team in ANY sport would not even come close to beating a decent MN team. (we are talking high school here) And don't give me any BS about Twin Cities teams are just too big....South has a bigger enrollment than most suburban schools.

What are these school officials doing? Are they not thinking about the children? North Dakota high schools have no right playing against the bigger, faster and stronger kids from Minnesota. They had no chance. We need to shelter our precious snowflakes from these kinds of beatings. The school officials should be ashamed for trying to arrange a athletic event which provided the kids with a unique challenge and goal and would require them to prepare, and perform at their highest level. I say boo to you Fargo South High Administrators. Next time don't be silly and think your school can compete with the mighty Minnesotans and stay w/in your own border.

/sarcasm off

[Bison_Pride]

"The difference between a AAAAA team and a AAA team in Minnesota is night and day"

Accurate, Accurate, Accurate.


Honestly, how many ND high school games have you even seen in your life? Let me guess, 0?

Edina last year had 1703 students, and Fargo South had a little over 1600, how is that a huge difference in schools? Every year the top school in North Dakota would do well in the metro conference. Fargo South had just lost too much to hang with what will be one of the top schools in Minnesota this year. The South teams from the past two years would have made it a heck of a game and if they would have played those games in Fargo, I'd have put money on South. The problem is that the top metro teams will have speed that we aren't used to seeing in North Dakota, especially on defense. After that, its just x's and o's and execution. Physically Fargo South was bigger than Edina. Moorhead is a smaller school than South and draws kids from a smaller area, and yet they have done quite well over the years when playing the metro school in all sports. Ming was right, the talent levels are down a little bit in North Dakota this year in 3A.

[NorthernBison]

Honestly, how many ND high school games have you even seen in your life? Let me guess, 0?

Edina last year had 1703 students, and Fargo South had a little over 1600, how is that a huge difference in schools? Every year the top school in North Dakota would do well in the metro conference. Fargo South had just lost too much to hang with what will be one of the top schools in Minnesota this year. The South teams from the past two years would have made it a heck of a game and if they would have played those games in Fargo, I'd have put money on South. The problem is that the top metro teams will have speed that we aren't used to seeing in North Dakota, especially on defense. After that, its just x's and o's and execution. Physically Fargo South was bigger than Edina. Moorhead is a smaller school than South and draws kids from a smaller area, and yet they have done quite well over the years when playing the metro school in all sports. Ming was right, the talent levels are down a little bit in North Dakota this year in 3A.

You missed the point of what they were talking about above. 4mcrue brought up a Bismarck team beating up on a team from Proctor (MN AAA). Minnesota has a top level of AAAAA. So basically, any ND AAA team beating up a MN AAA teams is far from a fair fight. In MN AAAAA is so much better than AAA as to be irrelevant.

I don't know about Moorhead. At one time, they were one of the biggest schools in MN. Bigger than many metro schools. Has that changed a great deal? How do they compare to South? Anybody know?

[Bison_Pride]

St. Mary's of Bismarck would be lucky to be 3A if they were in Minnesota, they are very small enrollment (355).

Moorhead last year had 1650 students, Fargo South had 1601. Moorhead plays class 5A football in MN. Fargo South would also be 5A if they were on the other side of the river.

[NorthernBison]

St. Mary's of Bismarck would be lucky to be 3A if they were in Minnesota, they are very small enrollment (355).

Moorhead last year had 1650 students, Fargo South had 1601. Moorhead plays class 5A football in MN. Fargo South would also be 5A if they were on the other side of the river.

Those numbers make sense. BTW, Proctor has a 9-12 enrollment of about 600.

I was only pointing out that above, the discussion was about the differences of MN AAA to MN AAAAA.

South and Moorhead are very similar in size. I don't think the athletes suddenly get better just because they live on the east side of the river. There are many games played from year to year from between MN and ND teams. I think it is pretty even when you compare "like sized" schools".

[d3boys]

Don't forget golf. I know that in past years South boys would go down to the U of MN meet and consistently finish in the top 3.

There is no doubt in boys track. We would march down to the Carelton Relays and destroy the metro teams in the early 90s. They just couldn't handle our depth.

still in the 2000's the south track team has won several times in stillwater and carelton

[BlueBisonRock]

The Minnesota HS League uses the following criteria to determine school classification for football. Other sports use a different criteria.

1246+ = Class AAAAA
1245– 623= Classes AAAA
Divided equally in thirds = Classes AAA, AA, A
165 & below = 9-man

The enrollment of each MN school can be found in the attached URL. If I did it right, the sequence is high to low.

MN Enrollment (http://www.mshsl.org/mshsl/enrollments07.asp?sort=2)

Per this information Moorhead has 1527 students for the 2008 - 2009 school year. Edinia has 2232.

As a point of reference, two of the three Rochester HS have 1600+ students. Both were taken to the cleaners this past weekend with Century loosing to Wayzata and Mayo loosing to Minnetonka. The question remains, how will Wayzata, Minnetonka, Edina, and others perform against Eden Prairie (enrollment 3099)

Also of interest to this discussion: Eden Prairie has four state titles since 2000 (six overall) with Wayzata and Minnetonka both winning one state title since 2000. Edina's last state title was in 1978 while Moorhead won the title in 1987. If you want to better understand why the suburban schools have such a high degree of success, check out their facilities. Eden Prairie in particular has excellent facilities, a strong commitment to athletics, as well as the largest enrollment in the state.

Back to the topic at hand, it is not the difference between the ND and the MN athlete. The success is much more dependent on the community and the school commitment to the student athlete and the year round focus for these MN kids (does this sound familiar?)

[MNLonghorn10]

I really do get tired of the MN is better than ND comments.
For what it's worth Bismarck St. Mary's destroyed some team from Proctor MN 39-12. Proctor is a AAA team from just outside of Duluth coming off of 22-2 seasons and 2 straight championships. St. Mary's on the other hand is a cellar dwellar, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think they've only won 2 games in the last 2 years. I know for a fact they are going to drop down to AA next year even. They also still run the option offense I think.

Besides, BHS is the team to beat this year, and predicted to win it all for AAA in ND.

As far as comparing other sports, I know of some girls basketball teams that actually proved it on a more national level, that being 1996 Shanley and Mandan girls basketball teams. Both traveled to Denver CO that year and ended up playing eachother for the championship of that tourney. I know that was a few years ago, but my wife was on the Shanley team that year and gets just as peaved as I do of the MN > ND comments. Those 2 years of Shanley girls BB would have played with anybody, and she knows it. Winning back to back state titles in ND.

It's hard to make such a bold statement that MN HS sports is better than ND in all aspects.
No its not.

Minnesota is far superior then ND in athletics. How many titles would Moorhead have if we were in North Dakota? I'd say a lot more then what we have now.

Minnesota has top teams in the country in football(Eden Prairie is a power, along with Cretin Durham Hall)...also you can pretty much fill out the top 10 nationally ranked schools in hockey with Minnesota based schools around the state.

Seriously, it really isn't even close. Is Fargo South ND's premier high school? I dont know, but you plug south into Minnesota and theyd get destroyed..in probably everything. Might be intimidation, I don't know.

[d3boys]

destroyed by who
everyone because they have minnesota after their town name
that is ridiculous
south would be competitive in most sports with most teams
not the best but not embarassing

[Bison_Pride]

No its not.

Minnesota is far superior then ND in athletics. How many titles would Moorhead have if we were in North Dakota? I'd say a lot more then what we have now.

Minnesota has top teams in the country in football(Eden Prairie is a power, along with Cretin Durham Hall)...also you can pretty much fill out the top 10 nationally ranked schools in hockey with Minnesota based schools around the state.

Seriously, it really isn't even close. Is Fargo South ND's premier high school? I dont know, but you plug south into Minnesota and theyd get destroyed..in probably everything. Might be intimidation, I don't know.

How many other 5A football schools does Moorhead play this year on their football schedule? Moorhead would do well in North Dakota because they are used to scheduling teams from schools with smaller enrollments.

[MNLonghorn10]

How many other 5A football schools does Moorhead play this year on their football schedule? Moorhead would do well in North Dakota because they are used to scheduling teams from schools with smaller enrollments.
Eh. Maybe earlier this decade, Moorhead had a nice string of years of competitiveness in state tournaments including basketball, hockey and football. Moorhead now would probably lose to most A teams in ND. Thats how bad it is now.

As for 5A teams, I have no idea. Moorhead is in the independents conference according to the Star Tribune...which has 2 other teams in it...Bemidji, and the Minnesota Academy for the deaf. I am not kidding about the 2nd one. Moorhead lost 37-13 last week to Fergus Falls of all schools.

The point I'm just saying, theres no way, in any sport, could North Dakotas best team(football, hockey, basketball) would be able to compete with Minnesotas best team(football, hockey, basketball). The talent field in MN is so much larger, that it's not even close...really.

[MNLonghorn10]

destroyed by who
everyone because they have minnesota after their town name
that is ridiculous
south would be competitive in most sports with most teams
not the best but not embarassing

Name a sport. Obviously it isn't football.

Basketball? LOL. Hopkins always puts out a strong team, along with Osseo.

Hockey? Serious?

[Civil06]

Eh. Maybe earlier this decade, Moorhead had a nice string of years of competitiveness in state tournaments including basketball, hockey and football. Moorhead now would probably lose to most A teams in ND. Thats how bad it is now.

As for 5A teams, I have no idea. Moorhead is in the independents conference according to the Star Tribune...which has 2 other teams in it...Bemidji, and the Minnesota Academy for the deaf. I am not kidding about the 2nd one. Moorhead lost 37-13 last week to Fergus Falls of all schools.

The point I'm just saying, theres no way, in any sport, could North Dakotas best team(football, hockey, basketball) would be able to compete with Minnesotas best team(football, hockey, basketball). The talent field in MN is so much larger, that it's not even close...really.

I'm working off of memory here, but didn't little old May-Port CG (ND Class B) beat a highly ranked MN team (Minnetonka, maybe?) in a holiday tournament in 1997(ish)?

[Bison_Pride]

Hopkins and Osseo?

I would hope those schools are good, they are in a metro area of 3 million people and have 2470 and 2104 students respectively. Whoopie!

[MNLonghorn10]

I'm working off of memory here, but didn't little old May-Port CG (ND Class B) beat a highly ranked MN team (Minnetonka, maybe?) in a holiday tournament in 1997(ish)?

I dont know, I was 12 at the time, and had no idea what a Mayport CG was.

[MNLonghorn10]

Hopkins and Osseo?

I would hope those schools are good, they are in a metro area of 3 million people and have 2470 and 2104 students respectively. Whoopie!

Explain it to Bismarck guy.

Like I said, it's really not fair due to more teams, more players in MN, but if you stick North Dakotas best 3A football team...so far its Bismarck High, against Eden Prairie, who do you think will win? A team that sends talent to Ohio State...or Valley City State. your choice.

[d3boys]

in the past decade or so nd teams that could possibly win mn state
minot - swmming
red river - tennis
south - golf and soccer
bismarck - track and wrestling

in fact 2001 south #1 in nd beat edina #1 in mn 1-0

hope this helps


btw I graduated from moorhead and follow minnesota sports
but am not so narrow minded that some nd schools cant compete

[aces1180]

in the past decade or so nd teams that could possibly win mn state
minot - swmming
red river - tennis
south - golf and soccer
bismarck - track and wrestling

in fact 2001 south #1 in nd beat edina #1 in mn 1-0

hope this helps


btw I graduated from moorhead and follow minnesota sports
but am not so narrow minded that some nd schools cant compete

Mandan girls basketball - Six state titles in a row!

[SirHinn]

in the past decade or so nd teams that could possibly win mn state
minot - swmming
red river - tennis
south - golf and soccer
bismarck - track and wrestling

in fact 2001 south #1 in nd beat edina #1 in mn 1-0

hope this helps


btw I graduated from moorhead and follow minnesota sports
but am not so narrow minded that some nd schools cant compete

There's one thing between competing for and winning a state championship. Any team can compete with another team on any given day. In North Dakota Class AAA nowadays though, if you don't make it to State it's a huge disappointment Simply making the state tournament in Minnesota is a huge accomplishment in itself. North Dakota teams don't play the same type of caliber teams that teams in Minnesota teams do on a nightly basis.
Your South High example would almost mean something if it weren't for one thing. I played for a terrible North team that year that only lost to Edina 2-1, problem is we didn't even make it to state in North Dakota.

[4mcruenomore]

No its not.

Minnesota is far superior then ND in athletics. How many titles would Moorhead have if we were in North Dakota? I'd say a lot more then what we have now.


Moorhead, seriously? Shanley beat Moorhead last year in girls basketball
69-56, guess you wouldn't have won state last year in ND. I guess I should just concede, MN is sooooo much better than ND, so much better that people from MN actually go to college here???!!!???. LOL.

[extremerouge]

There's one thing between competing for and winning a state championship. Any team can compete with another team on any given day. In North Dakota Class AAA nowadays though, if you don't make it to State it's a huge disappointment Simply making the state tournament in Minnesota is a huge accomplishment in itself. North Dakota teams don't play the same type of caliber teams that teams in Minnesota teams do on a nightly basis.
Your South High example would almost mean something if it weren't for one thing. I played for a terrible North team that year that only lost to Edina 2-1, problem is we didn't even make it to state in North Dakota.

you played for north against edina during the 2001-2002 soccer season?

[fargocyclone]

you played for north against edina during the 2001-2002 soccer season?

Wasn't 2001 the year that South went 20-something and 0 and ranked 23rd in the nation in soccer?

Those other 22 teams must all have been in Minnesota... ;)

[SirHinn]

you played for north against edina during the 2001-2002 soccer season?

I played for North against Edina during the 2000-2001 team when they were ranked in the top 20 in the country I believe?
The problem with South's record that year was they never played anyone outside of Edina. They had zero competition, so them going undefeated doesn't say a lot. Now had they played against several teams that were even ranked in the top 200, it might have meant something. Also something to consider with that South team is that they didn't send any of their players to division 1 soccer schools if i'm not mistaken. You'd figure if your team was really that dominant, atleast some d-1 schools would have interest in your players.

[extremerouge]

I played for North against Edina during the 2000-2001 team when they were ranked in the top 20 in the country I believe?
The problem with South's record that year was they never played anyone outside of Edina. They had zero competition, so them going undefeated doesn't say a lot. Now had they played against several teams that were even ranked in the top 200, it might have meant something. Also something to consider with that South team is that they didn't send any of their players to division 1 soccer schools if i'm not mistaken. You'd figure if your team was really that dominant, atleast some d-1 schools would have interest in your players.
South beat Edina the 2001-2002 season...edina went on to send at least 2 (both midfielders i believe) to D1 soccer...specifically Wisconsin...

south's soccer team beat everyone they could get a game with...if there wasn't any competition in north dakota there wasn't many options other than going to edina for a game (who went on to win their 3rd straight state championship)

there were several other minnesotan teams they beat...don't know names though

[d3boys]

South beat Edina the 2001-2002 season...edina went on to send at least 2 (both midfielders i believe) to D1 soccer...specifically Wisconsin...

south's soccer team beat everyone they could get a game with...if there wasn't any competition in north dakota there wasn't many options other than going to edina for a game (who went on to win their 3rd straight state championship)

there were several other minnesotan teams they beat...don't know names though

that year south beat 3 teams that were in the semifinals of the mn state
and moorhead who made state that year
so they did play a tough schedule because the coach knew he had a good group with 21 seniors and wanted the competition
edina, elk river and eden prairie
so there

[rustywallace]

Last year RRHS had Minnesotas #1 ranked team and undefeated team in class AA hockey beat but two fluke goals got the job done. And by fluke i mean flining it off the back glass and hitting the goalies back and going in. And then the power play that shouldnt have in OT and that was another fluke goal. oh well though i was cheering for roseau as i am a GFC graduate. I bet last years RR hockey team could have done some serious damage in AA in Minnesota.

[ndsubison1]

Eh. Maybe earlier this decade, Moorhead had a nice string of years of competitiveness in state tournaments including basketball, hockey and football. Moorhead now would probably lose to most A teams in ND. Thats how bad it is now.

As for 5A teams, I have no idea. Moorhead is in the independents conference according to the Star Tribune...which has 2 other teams in it...Bemidji, and the Minnesota Academy for the deaf. I am not kidding about the 2nd one. Moorhead lost 37-13 last week to Fergus Falls of all schools.

The point I'm just saying, theres no way, in any sport, could North Dakotas best team(football, hockey, basketball) would be able to compete with Minnesotas best team(football, hockey, basketball). The talent field in MN is so much larger, that it's not even close...really.

Bismarck High wrestling contends every year in I think it's the Apple Valley Christmas Tournament? But they usually place in the top 5 and a few times they've place 3rd and 2nd and I think 1st once or twice.

Bismarck High track could contend with the best of the best in Minnesota... they win state almost every year and their team fares well at regionals and nationals.

St. Mary's defeated a top AAA team in Minnesota, this is St. Mary's a team who should be AA. A team who has won 3 games the past 3 seasons (not including this season). They defeated a team that has finished 10-1 that past two years.

Fargo South golf fares well in MN tourney's every year.

St. Mary's girls soccer used to to go a big tournament in Blaine every year when they were the powerhouse of soccer in ND... they won the tourney nearly every year.

Mandan girls basketball would no doubt no just compete every year in girls bball but would prolly win MN state. They are a nationally ranked team and have won 7 of the last state championships. They've won 2 national tournaments that past two years in Wyoming and beat one of the top teams from Florida last year.

Grand Forks Red River lost to Roseau in hockey I believe 2-1 or 3-2 last year (its one or the other). Every now and then there is a GF hockey team that competes with the best of MN Hockey.

Red River tennis has been ranked nationally the past few seasons

The Fargo North basketball team from 2002 would have held their own against the top MN teams.

Minnesota has better overall sports and athletes and is superior... but there are some ND teams that could compete with the best of MN.

[Bison_Pride]

Friday afternoon at 4:30 in the Dome, Fargo North will be playing Duluth East. North has around 875 students, Duluth East a little over 1200. Duluth East has had two blowout wins and North Is 1-1 with a win over Mandan and a loss to Bismarck. North does not appear to be a powerhouse this year, but not a pushover either. On paper it appears to be a mismatch, but it'll be interesting to see what happens.

[roper1313]

Sounds like Edina will be making a return trip to South next year. With Shanley and Wahpeton moving to AA there is some more room for out of state nonconference.