NDSU vs UND

[4mcruenomore]

I recently was told that back in the day before their program ended, that UND had the premier wrestling program in ND. I don't have a clue, and searched online and came up with nothing as far as UND's record in that area. Any thoughts on this? (I was told that some kids from BHS in the '90's went to UND b/c they "owned" NDSU in wrestling) I had no argument, I know nothing about wrestling, elighten me, even if he was right.

[Bisonguy]

Overall record, 39-6-1 Bison. Not really close. It appears that UND did have one win over NDSU and one tie in the 90's (keep in mind that there were on the schedule twice most years). Throw in the fact that NDSU won national championships in 1988, 1998, 2000 and 2001 compared to UND's none, so it looks like somebody had their facts wrong.


BTW- all-time records and yearly records are available in the Media Guide (http://www.gobison.com//pdf7/80328.pdf?SPSID=12008&SPID=701&DB_OEM_ID=2400)

[90BISON]

The Sue in the 80's were actually pretty good. I think one year in the mid 80's we were #1 & #2 in the country in DII, at that point in the season. What year did the Sue actually get rid of wrestling? I thought it was actually in the 90's, but can't remember, don't care enough to look it up. We had some monsters in the mid 80's, John Morgan, Matt Palmer, Pat Johannes.......:D

[Bisonguy]

The Sue in the 80's were actually pretty good. I think one year in the mid 80's we were #1 & #2 in the country in DII, at that point in the season. What year did the Sue actually get rid of wrestling? I thought it was actually in the 90's, but can't remember, don't care enough to look it up. We had some monsters in the mid 80's, John Morgan, Matt Palmer, Pat Johannes.......:D

Looks like 97-98 was the last season that NDSU had UND on the schedule.


NDSU also captured the NCC crown nine consecutive seasons, from 82-90.

[onbison09]

UND wasn't even close to NDSU. One thing my dad actually remembers is going to matches and watching us dominate. (that would've been '80-84)

[Green-N-Gold]

Leave it to a Sue fan to not let FACTS get in the way.

[90BISON]

I recently was told that back in the day before their program ended, that UND had the premier wrestling program in ND. I don't have a clue, and searched online and came up with nothing as far as UND's record in that area. Any thoughts on this? (I was told that some kids from BHS in the '90's went to UND b/c they "owned" NDSU in wrestling) I had no argument, I know nothing about wrestling, elighten me, even if he was right.

Obviously basketball players/fans that you were talking to.:banghead: I'm guessing the kids from BHS they were talking about were the Steiner boys from BHS who both went to IOWA to wrestle (not UND). Troy was a NC in 1992 and Terry was a NC in 1993. They both wrestled in one of the most awesome wrestling duals ever held in Fargo, when Dan Gable and the boys from Iowa came to the New Fieldhouse and wrestled the Bison. If I remember correctly there were about 6,000 people at that match, a lot of HS kids from all over MN and ND.:D

Yea, their program was so premier that they cut it. Probably to pave the way for women's hockey and the money generating machine that it is!:smh:

[bronco96]

Long time reader, 1st time contributor:

UND dropped wrestling after the 97-98 school year (year following the flood). The then head coach, Bruce Moe, initiated a lawsuit interejecting that scholarship funds had been given to a female wrestler and thus fulfulling a Title IX objective....the lawsuit never went anywhere...

There was gas left in the tank: Scott Braun, a junior on the UND wrestling team in 97-98, took 2nd in the nation the following season for South Dakota State...losing to Kris Nelson from NDSU in the finals.

As a then current UND student (now an Alum)...the dismissal of wresting from UND was a sad ending to a proud program. While never winning a national team title the Sioux wrestling program had at least a few All-American contenders year in and year out...and a good pipeline for talent: top 5 male participant sport in ND and at least in the case of Minnesota, arguably one of the top 5 wrestling states in the country.

Any NDSU/UND fan can write off UND's elimination of wrestling as nothing more than falling in line with the current trend of colleges/universities eliminating wrestling to comply with Title XI...

IMO though Terry Wanless' ending the wrestling program spoke volumes then and even now about UND's athletic department. Like other smaller athletic programs at UND, the wrestling program was (especially in the final years) was underfunded and unappreciated.

While I have always realized the importance of Sioux Hockey when you started cutting an athletic program to pave the way for Women's Hockey (a black hole for $$$) and in later years, where more money has been put into marketing Women's Hockey than UND Football...it's hard for me to not reflect back on the elimination of wrestling as an ominous sign that polarizes UND's athletic department to this day...

And from time to time I see UND posters ripping on wrestling and I wonder to myself....if you can't appreciate/understand UND's own past accomplishments in wrestling....how can you fully embrace the entire scope of Sioux athletics current/past?

I've never seen an NDSU poster on this site rip wrestling in a condescending manner...EVER.

[90BISON]

Long time reader, 1st time contributor:

UND dropped wrestling after the 97-98 school year (year following the flood). The then head coach, Bruce Moe, initiated a lawsuit interejecting that scholarship funds had been given to a female wrestler and thus fulfulling a Title IX objective....the lawsuit never went anywhere...

There was gas left in the tank: Scott Braun, a junior on the UND wrestling team in 97-98, took 2nd in the nation the following season for South Dakota State...losing to Kris Nelson from NDSU in the finals.

As a then current UND student (now an Alum)...the dismissal of wresting from UND was a sad ending to a proud program. While never winning a national team title the Sioux wrestling program had at least a few All-American contenders year in and year out...and a good pipeline for talent: top 5 male participant sport in ND and at least in the case of Minnesota, arguably one of the top 5 wrestling states in the country.

Any NDSU/UND fan can write off UND's elimination of wrestling as nothing more than falling in line with the current trend of colleges/universities eliminating wrestling to comply with Title XI...

IMO though Terry Wanless' ending the wrestling program spoke volumes then and even now about UND's athletic department. Like other smaller athletic programs at UND, the wrestling program was (especially in the final years) was underfunded and unappreciated.

While I have always realized the importance of Sioux Hockey when you started cutting an athletic program to pave the way for Women's Hockey (a black hole for $$$) and in later years, where more money has been put into marketing Women's Hockey than UND Football...it's hard for me to not reflect back on the elimination of wrestling as an ominous sign that polarizes UND's athletic department to this day...

And from time to time I see UND posters ripping on wrestling and I wonder to myself....if you can't appreciate/understand UND's own past accomplishments in wrestling....how can you fully embrace the entire scope of Sioux athletics current/past?

I've never seen an NDSU poster on this site rip wrestling in a condescending manner...EVER.

Nice take, thanks for joining in. My reference to women's hockey was actually in jest, but probably some grain of truth to it. I couldn't remember for sure, since I was already out of school when they shut down their program, but I kind of thought it had something to do with Title IX. As sad as it is for me to say it, it was kind of a sad day when they pulled the plug on what was actually a pretty good program, especially considering the program down I-29 was one of the best in the country in DII.

[UTH]

Obviously basketball players/fans that you were talking to.:banghead: I'm guessing the kids from BHS they were talking about were the Steiner boys from Century HS who both went to IOWA to wrestle (not UND). Troy was a NC in 1992 and Terry was a NC in 1993. They both wrestled in one of the most awesome wrestling duals ever held in Fargo, when Dan Gable and the boys from Iowa came to the New Fieldhouse and wrestled the Bison. If I remember correctly there were about 6,000 people at that match, a lot of HS kids from all over MN and ND.:D

Yea, their program was so premier that they cut it. Probably to pave the way for women's hockey and the money generating machine that it is!:smh:


Fixed that for you.http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff311/indio_rojas/Smilies/SmiliesThumbsupa.gif

[90BISON]

Fixed that for you.http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff311/indio_rojas/Smilies/SmiliesThumbsupa.gif

I was almost tempted to look it up, because I couldn't remember for certain if they went to BHS or Century. I stand corrected. I was also out of State at that point in my life and unavailable for comment.;)

[BraxtonT]

Chris Zink wrestled for UND for four years before transferring to NDSU for his senior season in 1999. The NCAA allowed the guys from UND to immediately be eligible because their program was dropped. Chris earned honorable mention All-America honors for NDSU that season.

[SamsRams]

There was gas left in the tank: Scott Braun, a junior on the UND wrestling team in 97-98, took 2nd in the nation the following season for South Dakota State...losing to Kris Nelson from NDSU in the finals.



Amazing how Lisbon produced so many kids that could wrestle at a competivitve level and be drunk at the same time :p I'll have to let Kris know that his name was dropped on this board. I'm sure he'll get a kick out of people still mentioning him :)

[Shawn-O]

While I have always realized the importance of Sioux Hockey when you started cutting an athletic program to pave the way for Women's Hockey (a black hole for $$$) and in later years, where more money has been put into marketing Women's Hockey than UND Football...it's hard for me to not reflect back on the elimination of wrestling as an ominous sign that polarizes UND's athletic department to this day...

Bronco96, PM me if you have proof of this. I'd be more than willing to take this up with Faison via e-mail/phone if you do. I hope you'd do the same.


And from time to time I see UND posters ripping on wrestling and I wonder to myself....if you can't appreciate/understand UND's own past accomplishments in wrestling....how can you fully embrace the entire scope of Sioux athletics current/past?

I've never seen an NDSU poster on this site rip wrestling in a condescending manner...EVER.

I don't read every forum here, but you may be referring to me ("how's the RASSLIN' team doing?")

First off, it's in the smack forum, so take it for a grain of salt. Here's the context:



[Insert Bison poster here]: Only 60 schools even have hockey, so it sucks.
Shawn-O: How'd the RASSLIN team do?
[Insert Bison poster here]: We have a great tradition in wrestling, and those kids deserve credit.
Shawn-O: But nobody cares. Here are the national attendance figures.

Second, I played hoops at a ND Class B that also had wrestling, so I realize that these guys work their asses off.

Third, I'm not sure what team accomplishments there were in UND wrestling to deserve any groundswell of support to save it.

Fourth, I've never heard a Sioux poster rip on hockey on that site, either.

[bronco96]

"Bronco96, PM me if you have proof of this. I'd be more than willing to take this up with Faison via e-mail/phone if you do. I hope you'd do the same."

-My sibling played football for 5 years at UND and started in the walk-on ranks. Said sibling noted that when Engelstad Arena essentially inherited the keys to marketing UND athletics...you saw more TV commercials, Billboard ads for Women's Hockey than you did for football.

-If I'm wrong on that from a dollar perspectives so be it but image wise it held true whenever I was in town to watch football in the years after I graduated.

"I don't read every forum here, but you may be referring to me ("how's the RASSLIN' team doing?")

First off, it's in the smack forum, so take it for a grain of salt. Here's the context:

Second, I played hoops at a ND Class B that also had wrestling, so I realize that these guys work their asses off.

Third, I'm not sure what team accomplishments there were in UND wrestling to deserve any groundswell of support to save it.

Fourth, I've never heard a Sioux poster rip on hockey on that site, either."

--As a guy heavily involved in wrestling, I certainly do take comments about wrestling with a grain of salt...be it on a website like this, questions about the Herpes outbreak shutdown of wrestling in MN (3) years ago but at the end of the day I'm not a hockey guy I'm a football/wrestling guy....when a die-hard Sioux Hockey fan starts talking puck I do my best to follow along.
I even married into a hockey family, my Brother in Law played D1 Hockey.
--If you think UND covet all UND sports as evidenced by message boards...I disagree. My belief is a large part of this is because Hockey is so popular and visible at UND compared to other sports that it drowns out media coverage in the Herald, the Dakota Student, talk around town/campus, etc. Reminds me of when I'd come to work Monday morning in downtown Minneapolis and another Sioux alum would come and ask me how the game went Saturday...so I'd say "Sioux beat Nebraska-Omaha" or something of the like and the guy would say "No not that game, I didn't catch the score with Colorado College".
--More specifically, if you think Wayne Nelson covers UND sports better than Jeff Kolpack does NDSU....than I disagree. And if you come back with how great Virg Foss has covered UND hockey...than you just made my point.
--You may respect wrestling but you cannot argue that UND did not cut wrestling to save money for women's hockey. In the last (5) years of the program UND wrestlers were using State Fleet vehicles to drive themselves to tournaments and dual meets. There was very little scholarship $$$ available, I'm not sure Bruce Moe even had an assistant coach near the end. And they were supposed to be a Nationally competitive team? Please....

[BisoninNWMN]

UND had some very good wrestlers. Corey Mosher from Fertile-Beltrami won the 157 national championship in 87 & 88 ... then Tim Briggs won the same weight class the next yr. Title IX bull-sh** has caused the demise of many college wrestling programs. Wish UND would reinstate wrestling....many good high-school wrestlers in ND-SD-MN could have a chance at college wrestling.

[BisoninNWMN]

Follow-up point: Went to a few NDSU/UND wrestling matches in late 80's and early 90's....they were great....had all the hoopla , but only on a smaller scale, as a fb game. Tim "wart-hog" Briggs was a buddy of mine from California....very good wrestler. Too bad UND dropped the program.....women's hockey as a replacement is a joke.