$1 Billion in the bank!!

[tjbison]

Was anounced yesterday that North Dakota has now hit a 1 billion dollar surplus, what's everyones thoughts on using that money!

[bisonmike2]

Was anounced yesterday that North Dakota has now hit a 1 billion dollar surplus, what's everyones thoughts on using that money!

oh they'll find something to blow it on. For the greater good of course. If I lived in ND I would say they need some sort of property tax relief but since I don't I hope they donate it to the state of MN. You know, help your neighbors out. We'll call it even:)

[Tatanka]

for a second there when I saw the thread I thought maybe Eddie Belfour got arrested again...

[Bison101]

Was anounced yesterday that North Dakota has now hit a 1 billion dollar surplus, what's everyones thoughts on using that money!


Build onto the Fargodome, baby!

Another Concourse? Levels in the corners?

[roadwarrior]

The state treasurer was on the radio this morning. She emphasized that it was NOT amount of the surplus, but the balance in the general fund.

[bisonaudit]

They're going to use it to put in a 40,000 seat grandstand at the horse park, and purchase the Preakness Stakes from Pimlico. :-)

[met1990]

UND should use it to build a nice hockey arena.

[bisonmike2]

UND should use it to build a nice hockey arena.

or a 35,000 seat retractable roof footaball stadium. :)

[NDSU_grad]

There is really only one option. Return it to the people who are responsible for the balance in the first place.

[TransAmBison]

There is really only one option. Return it to the people who are responsible for the balance in the first place.
Now you're just talking nonsense. That's not how government works. :)

[bisonaudit]

There is really only one option. Return it to the people who are responsible for the balance in the first place.

A hate this arguement because you know what the next arguement is? When the economy is in the tank and the budget needs to be balanced the arguement is government must live within its means, no new taxes.

We arguement number 2 is correct for the same reason arguement number 1 is wrong. When the economy is bad the government should NOT raise taxes, its a poor economic move. Similarily, it's a poor economic move to cut taxes when things are good. They should put that money away for a rainy day, so that they can run the state when wheat isn't $12 a bushel and oil isn't $125 a barrel and tax receipts aren't wildly exceeding budgeted expectations.

[Bison"FANatic"]

There is really only one option. Return it to the people who are responsible for the balance in the first place.

My opinion is that it all depends on were the extra surplus money is coming from. If it is coming from a possible non sustainable source that may change at the drop of a hat well then we need to be very careful. It all depends on what percent is from the oil boom out west, how much is from increased sales tax because shopping has increased in the state while the dollar is down and Canadians are flocking to the shopping centers (it is crazy how many you see here in Fargo). The sales tax could flip around and go the other way in 18 months. Are property taxes to high, I would say yes but I don't know the specific numbers on what amount of the state budget is covered by property tax. At least property taxes are fairly stable (they are not going to substantially drop) for setting a budget on the state level.

I would hope that the money would be used for one time expenses, infrastructure replacement or upkeep, higher ed building improvements that need to be done, one time expenses that if done now are not going to hadcuff us if we lose the surplus money. If we run a surplus for another few bienniums then look at tax cut solutions if the projections say it is feasable. Now is the time to use some of the current surplus for those projects that didn't get the money at other budgeting times do to low funds.

Just my .02


I guess Bison audit summarized it very good while I was typing my response!!!!

[mebisonII]

Honest question, what are property taxes around the state? For instance, what percentage do you expect to pay on a house in Fargo, Bismarck, Wahpeton, etc?

Overall, I tend to agree with Bison "FANatic"...Use at least some of it for some one-time investments in infrastructure and other things that can give the state a leg up now, while the chance is there.

Somewhat off topic: My dad always used to say that the farming economy ran at about a 90 degree lag (or lead, depending on how you want to look at it) to the rest of the economy. I certainly understand what he meant now.

[roadwarrior]

Are property taxes to high, I would say yes but I don't know the specific numbers on what amount of the state budget is covered by property tax.

No amount of property tax goes to the state. County, city and schools get the bulk of the property taxes.

[Bison"FANatic"]

Ahh directly yes but some want the state to give the schools more support and that would allow them to decrease their mill levy thus reducing property taxes. You are correct and I was not clear in my writing.

[westriver bison]

I agree with Bisonaudit. Invest it, use the interest in the general fund if needed. It's one way to leave it for our kids.

[imabison]

Honest question, what are property taxes around the state? For instance, what percentage do you expect to pay on a house in Fargo, Bismarck, Wahpeton, etc?

Overall, I tend to agree with Bison "FANatic"...Use at least some of it for some one-time investments in infrastructure and other things that can give the state a leg up now, while the chance is there.

Somewhat off topic: My dad always used to say that the farming economy ran at about a 90 degree lag (or lead, depending on how you want to look at it) to the rest of the economy. I certainly understand what he meant now.
We actually figured it out between my house, and a condo in Dickinson for last year.

Percentage of value was almost exactly identical in taxes paid.

[Bison bison]

I agree with Bisonaudit. Invest it, use the interest in the general fund if needed. It's one way to leave it for our kids.

1) i have no qualms about a rainy day fund or endowments funded by royalties on oil, but i find it hard to justify the government 'hoarding' excess tax income.

2) we need to take care not to overcorrect (i lived in iowa a few years ago after the boom of the late 90's early 2000's where they slashed tax rates-not pretty.)

3) the state has a constitutional requirement to fund k12 education.

4) we need to work to reduce property taxes. when school districts are stockpiling tens of millions of dollars to the point where they can finance 40 million dollar high schools without blinking, something is out of whack.

[Bison bison]

Honest question, what are property taxes around the state? For instance, what percentage do you expect to pay on a house in Fargo, Bismarck, Wahpeton, etc?



you can find them online.

it's not the rate, it's the amount.

a fixed rate on an asset increasing at an average rate of 7% leads to huge increases in revenue. government will always find a way to spend it.

here they are:

http://www.nd.gov/tax/property/pubs/stat-rep-06.pdf

[NDSU_grad]

I'm not necessarily advocating cutting taxes. I understand that a good chunk of this surplus is probably because of $120 crude and ridiculous grain commodity prices. What I'm saying is do what the feds did this year, give taxpayers a rebate (the main difference being, of course, that the state actually has the money and is not just printing more from magical, happy moneyland). It doesn't even have to be the total balance; put half away and give the other half back to the taxpayers, for example.

[Swaghook]

Invest in a state owned oil refinery. It would put more money in the state coffers and ease the price of gas even if only slightly. But if the state is making money on the sale of refined gas it could then make cuts in personal income taxes.

[Bison bison]

I think the state should also open an auto dealership, a restaurant, and a hotel..........................
:p

[BisBison]

Invest in a state owned oil refinery. It would put more money in the state coffers and ease the price of gas even if only slightly. But if the state is making money on the sale of refined gas it could then make cuts in personal income taxes.

Yeah that's a GREAT idea. The state gov't of ND knows much more about running an oil refinery than Exxon, Tesoro, or some other oil company. The state gov't just needs to provide an attractive investment environment, get out of the way and private investment will come. Much better IMHO to reduce taxes on businesses and individuals to provide companies with an incentive to locate/invest in ND.

[Swaghook]

Yeah that's a GREAT idea. The state gov't of ND knows much more about running an oil refinery than Exxon, Tesoro, or some other oil company. The state gov't just needs to provide an attractive investment environment, get out of the way and private investment will come. Much better IMHO to reduce taxes on businesses and individuals to provide companies with an incentive to locate/invest in ND.
It would be great if the oil companies really wanted to expand capacity by building new refineries, but the truth is they do not. And since there are no serious private interest in doing so the state should step up and do so.

[Swaghook]

I think the state should also open an auto dealership, a restaurant, and a hotel..........................
:pThose are all businesses that have willing investors/operators in the state already. We have one refinery in the state that ships the gas out of state and has no interest in building another one nor does any other oil company. If they did it wouldn't be a suggestion for the state to step up and fill the void.

[NorthernBison]

I've seen the idea of building a refinery debated in several forums. One of the common findings that seems to come from those who research it is that oil company profits are coming from extracting and selling oil. Refining oil is not real profitable.

Apparently, the profit in the refining business comes from the "cracking margin" and that is not real good right now because the cost of the crude is too high. Sounds crazy but it could be true.

The companies that only refine, I think Tesoro is one of them, I've been told aren't doing real great. The companies that are integrated, are showing the profits in sectors other than refining.

A big question for those who support a State owned refinery is "where will you get the oil to refine?" Answer is "buy it". Hmmmm... sounds like trouble. Small fish, big pond. I vote no.

[BisBison]

It would be great if the oil companies really wanted to expand capacity by building new refineries, but the truth is they do not. And since there are no serious private interest in doing so the state should step up and do so.

They WOULD build or expand existing facilities if not for the myriad of state/federal gov't regulations that take a team of high paid lawyers to muddle through. Tesero has a study going on right now as to how to expand the Mandan refinery's capacity. Word around town here is they've just about thrown in the towel in frustration.

[westriver bison]

The profit "margin" for refineries is at an all time low. That, along with the governments obvious push toward non-petroleum\coal sources and a myriad of environmental hoops to jump through are the reasons the private sector is not expanding oil refineries.

Another reason a state owned refinery is a bad idea is transportation. The pipelines leaving ND are full. The state would either have to outbid the current users of the pipelines or build our own.

[Bison bison]

Another reason a state owned refinery is a bad idea is transportation. The pipelines leaving ND are full. The state would either have to outbid the current users of the pipelines or build our own.

We should build that too!!!

We should also open a bank, and a grain elevator, and ..............................


I think Cass County should pass a 1/2 cent sales tax and use the money to assist only three types of businesses: vaccines, ......

[BlueBisonRock]

We should build that too!!!

We should also open a bank, and a grain elevator, and ..............................
......

..... a State Mill and a State Brewery!

[BisBison]

..... a State Mill and a State Brewery!

Well since we already have a state mill I vote for the state brewery. We could use the abandoned Dakota Brewery building in Bismarck, because of course the state gov't of ND knows more about making beer than the original owners did.