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sambini
04-04-2008, 03:09 AM
Former Bison football player Dave Piepkorn has entered the race. Dave is a great guy. He was President of the Dome Authority. Good luck Dave you have my vote++++

imabison
04-04-2008, 12:22 PM
Former Bison football player Dave Piepkorn has entered the race. Dave is a great guy. He was President of the Dome Authority. Good luck Dave you have my vote++++
Lets hope he is able to replace Mike Williams. At least I heard Williams was running agin.

roadwarrior
04-04-2008, 12:45 PM
Linda Coates announced she is running again also. Two seats are up this year.

TransAmBison
04-04-2008, 12:45 PM
Linda Coates announced she is running again also. Two seats are up this year.
I'll vote for anybody that runs against Coates.

roadwarrior
04-04-2008, 12:47 PM
Only three have announced they are running this year. The deadline is April 11th. All commissioners are elected at large, so the two that get the most votes win.

lakesbison
04-04-2008, 01:32 PM
Coates wants $63 million Art complex, are you KIDDING ME?

how bout $63 million expansion to the Fargodome, make it up to 30,000 and add the 7500 basketball arena attached with the money.


Arts... what the hell, anyone down in minneapolis has seen how the GUTHRIE destroyed Vikings/Twins Tailgating.

Bison Dan
04-04-2008, 02:38 PM
Coates wants $63 million Art complex, are you KIDDING ME?

how bout $63 million expansion to the Fargodome, make it up to 30,000 and add the 7500 basketball arena attached with the money.


Arts... what the hell, anyone down in minneapolis has seen how the GUTHRIE destroyed Vikings/Twins Tailgating.

It will never happen but between the 2 - Williams or her we need to get Williams off the commission. At least shes willing to look to the future, Williams is just in love with himself. Just look at how he handled the cable TV contract a few years ago. Talk about f*@ked up.

bisonaudit
04-04-2008, 04:32 PM
Coates wants $63 million Art complex, are you KIDDING ME?

how bout $63 million expansion to the Fargodome, make it up to 30,000 and add the 7500 basketball arena attached with the money.


Arts... what the hell, anyone down in minneapolis has seen how the GUTHRIE destroyed Vikings/Twins Tailgating.

Yeah, because tailgaiting is real high on the city commission's list of priorities.

I like Hammersmith's take on this. I think the city should wait and look to partner w/ NDSU again on a performing arts facility downtown at somepoint in the future.

Bison bison
04-04-2008, 05:10 PM
(strategy note) vote for Piepkorn only.

Herd Mentality
04-04-2008, 05:34 PM
Write in: Herd Mentality

I'd wear a mask at city commission meetings to hide my true identity.

I have a pretty simple platform.
1) I'm not Linda Coates
2) I'm not Mike Williams

sambini
04-04-2008, 05:35 PM
Vote Dave Piepkorn Fargo City Commission++++++++++++++++++++

TransAmBison
04-04-2008, 05:41 PM
Write in: Herd Mentality

I'd wear a mask at city commission meetings to hide my true identity.

I have a pretty simple platform.
1) I'm not Linda Coates
2) I'm not Mike Williams
If you can show proof that you are not LC or MW you have my vote. This goes for anyone else at Bisonville.*




*Please send copy of birth certificate, social security number, and $9.99 processing fee to residence of TransAmBison. My vote will distributed accordingly.

DORMIE
04-04-2008, 09:25 PM
Why spend $63 million when you have the Reineke Fine Arts Center on the NDSU campus. I know it's not the largest in the area, but it sure is adequate for the amount of dates that it is used. It's nice to have the Arts, but I'm not familiar what they does for Economic Development. Don't get me wrong, I'm a Concert Choir alum.

G-city Bison Fan
04-04-2008, 11:03 PM
Why spend $63 million when you have the Reineke Fine Arts Center on the NDSU campus. I know it's not the largest in the area, but it sure is adequate for the amount of dates that it is used. It's nice to have the Arts, but I'm not familiar what they does for Economic Development. Don't get me wrong, I'm a Concert Choir alum.

Dormie, this gives me an idea. Everyone is complaining about the city chipping in for the Fargodome expansion, and $63 is a damn nice chunck of change, how about half of that goes to the Fargodome remodel and the other half goes for a Reinke remodel, totally renovate and add-on to the performing arts building?

Hammersmith
04-05-2008, 12:56 AM
Dormie, this gives me an idea. Everyone is complaining about the city chipping in for the Fargodome expansion, and $63 is a damn nice chunck of change, how about half of that goes to the Fargodome remodel and the other half goes for a Reinke remodel, totally renovate and add-on to the performing arts building?
Re: Festival Hall* remodel/addition idea

Sorry, it just doesn't work like that for performance spaces. A well-designed performance space has to be built from the ground up. The acoustic balances have to be just right for the types of performances intended. Everything factors in. The shape of the walls, the texture, the materials. The height of the roof and the placement of the walls. The fabric on the seats and the type of carpet. The placement, size and compostition of any sound reflectors, absorbers and diffusers. All of this, and much more, go into the designing of a performance space. You can't just add on without reengineering the whole facility. At that point, you might as well build new.

In fact, Festival isn't that good to begin with. During its design, too many acoustical compromises were made. What works for choirs is lousy for bands. What works for theatre, is bad for both. Festival is too loud for band, too dead for choirs, the stage and pit aren't large enough for theatre, and it's just barely adequate for orchestra with a quarter-million dollar shell. On top of all of that, at 1000 seats, it's too small to be the main concert hall for a city the size of Fargo. Fargo needs something in the 2000 to 3000 range(the Chester Fritz in GF is ~2400). Fargo also either needs an absolutely fabulous design that works well for bands, choirs, orchestras and theatrical shows, or a seperate concert hall and theater so they can be specialized. But that last idea would probably put the facility over $100 million, so that's a non-starter.

In any case, we're all jumping the gun on this. This report was only the earliest step in a very long process. People(Coates included) have been talking about a performing arts center for years, but nobody knew how much it would actually cost. Numbers with no basis in reality were being thrown around depending on the quoters' position. Opponents were throwing out high numbers to scare people off, and proponents were using low numbers to get people on board. Well, now we know what it will really cost, and the debate will be better for it. Personally, I think this number will cause Coates to step back and reevaluate the idea for now("It's gonna cost what?!?"). No matter what she said to the Forum reporter, she knows that a figure this high would require a new tax and there's no way that's going to happen in the next couple of years; not after the bashing the UP project has taken. Expect the city commission to file this report away and break it out in a few years when the economy has improved and the UP and FD arenas are like the FD is today: a pleasant and well-liked reality.

*common misunderstanding: the Reineke Fine Arts Center is actually both the Music Education Building and Askanase Hall combined. The main concert hall is called Festival Hall and the smaller stage is called Beckwith Recital Hall. Both are in serious need of sprucing up(new carpet, reupholster the seats, refinish the hardwood stages, etc.). Askanase just needs to ... well ... go.

Mr. Burgundy
04-05-2008, 02:03 AM
Voting for Wiliams is like watching D2 football. It just shouldn't happen.

sambini
04-06-2008, 06:49 AM
Voting for Wiliams is like watching D2 football. It just shouldn't happen.
Show your Bison pride vote for David Piepkorn++++++++++++++

roper1313
04-07-2008, 05:05 PM
Re: Festival Hall* remodel/addition idea

Sorry, it just doesn't work like that for performance spaces. A well-designed performance space has to be built from the ground up. The acoustic balances have to be just right for the types of performances intended. Everything factors in. The shape of the walls, the texture, the materials. The height of the roof and the placement of the walls. The fabric on the seats and the type of carpet. The placement, size and compostition of any sound reflectors, absorbers and diffusers. All of this, and much more, go into the designing of a performance space. You can't just add on without reengineering the whole facility. At that point, you might as well build new.

In fact, Festival isn't that good to begin with. During its design, too many acoustical compromises were made. What works for choirs is lousy for bands. What works for theatre, is bad for both. Festival is too loud for band, too dead for choirs, the stage and pit aren't large enough for theatre, and it's just barely adequate for orchestra with a quarter-million dollar shell. On top of all of that, at 1000 seats, it's too small to be the main concert hall for a city the size of Fargo. Fargo needs something in the 2000 to 3000 range(the Chester Fritz in GF is ~2400). Fargo also either needs an absolutely fabulous design that works well for bands, choirs, orchestras and theatrical shows, or a seperate concert hall and theater so they can be specialized. But that last idea would probably put the facility over $100 million, so that's a non-starter.

In any case, we're all jumping the gun on this. This report was only the earliest step in a very long process. People(Coates included) have been talking about a performing arts center for years, but nobody knew how much it would actually cost. Numbers with no basis in reality were being thrown around depending on the quoters' position. Opponents were throwing out high numbers to scare people off, and proponents were using low numbers to get people on board. Well, now we know what it will really cost, and the debate will be better for it. Personally, I think this number will cause Coates to step back and reevaluate the idea for now("It's gonna cost what?!?"). No matter what she said to the Forum reporter, she knows that a figure this high would require a new tax and there's no way that's going to happen in the next couple of years; not after the bashing the UP project has taken. Expect the city commission to file this report away and break it out in a few years when the economy has improved and the UP and FD arenas are like the FD is today: a pleasant and well-liked reality.

*common misunderstanding: the Reineke Fine Arts Center is actually both the Music Education Building and Askanase Hall combined. The main concert hall is called Festival Hall and the smaller stage is called Beckwith Recital Hall. Both are in serious need of sprucing up(new carpet, reupholster the seats, refinish the hardwood stages, etc.). Askanase just needs to ... well ... go.

Well said Hammersmith.

I'm all for the FD addition, but I don't think it looks good for Bison fans to immedately bash the idea of a Fine Arts Center in Fargo. Has anyone tried to watch a play at the Gatecity "Theater". Yuck!! $64 million is a big number and I'm sure it has all the arts supporters running back to the drawing board.

For me Fargo with the UP Center, new FD addition and a fine arts center in downtown Fargo would be a great thing!!

met1990
04-07-2008, 05:36 PM
For me Fargo with the UP Center, new FD addition and a fine arts center in downtown Fargo would be a great thing!!

I'm for all of it too, especially since I won't personally be paying for it. Thanks Fargo!

Tatanka
04-07-2008, 06:04 PM
Well said Hammersmith.

I'm all for the FD addition, but I don't think it looks good for Bison fans to immedately bash the idea of a Fine Arts Center in Fargo. Has anyone tried to watch a play at the Gatecity "Theater". Yuck!! $64 million is a big number and I'm sure it has all the arts supporters running back to the drawing board.

For me Fargo with the UP Center, new FD addition and a fine arts center in downtown Fargo would be a great thing!!

I agree that these aren't and shouldn't be mutually exclusive projects. Let's do them both!

Cue Mike Williams douching the whole thing up...

NDSUstudent
04-07-2008, 07:31 PM
I don't care who gets elected to the Commission as long as their name is not Mike Williams. I don't mind Coates, I've actually heard her speak a few times and came away with a much better opinion of her then I had prior. Gotta respect her passion for the arts and the fact she is not Mike Williams. I'll definitely be voting for Piepkorn and Coates.

roadwarrior
04-07-2008, 09:03 PM
(strategy note) vote for Piepkorn only.

Using this strategy, you may well allow Williams to get more votes than Coates. Vote for two.

TheBisonator
04-08-2008, 12:54 AM
Coates is hugely pro-NDSU. She's a big Bison fan. You don't have to worry about her doing things that will mess up NDSU. We need at least one person who supports arts and culture in the city commission. And PLEASE vote out Mike Williams. I'm sure all the bitter und grads in this city will be voting for him. They need anything they can to hold NDSU back.

sambini
04-08-2008, 02:03 AM
Vote Dave Piepkorn Former Bison Member Of The 1983 National Championship Team.++++++++++++++++++++

TheDoctor
04-08-2008, 01:30 PM
Linda and Dave! OUT with Williams! ;)

Herd Mentality
04-08-2008, 01:50 PM
Coates may be pro-university, but it seems to me she's just another problem in this town as one of the people that thinks they are a moral majority and everyone under the age of 30 is evil.

Then again, from what I've seen...she's "pro-whatever" wherever she happens to be at the time.

sambini
04-08-2008, 07:45 PM
Vote David Piepkorn ++++++++++++

sambini
04-10-2008, 02:02 AM
Got a card in the mail for a Campaign Kickoff for Dave Piepkorn on friday at the Fargo Dome. www.DavePiepkorn.com is his website.

HerdBot
04-11-2008, 01:56 PM
Coates wants $63 million Art complex, are you KIDDING ME?

how bout $63 million expansion to the Fargodome, make it up to 30,000 and add the 7500 basketball arena attached with the money.


Arts... what the hell, anyone down in minneapolis has seen how the GUTHRIE destroyed Vikings/Twins Tailgating.

Mike Williams flat out sucks and will not budge. He has no vision for the future and votes down everything. I will not vote for him. I won't try to sway him because he's set in his ways.

Linda Coates is a mystery but I think she is open minded and could be swayed by the people who elected her. She's open enough about growth that she's supporting the 63 million dollar arts center. I would never use it but at least she has a vision.

Here's the key.

We can't act like it's only for NDSU Baskeball because there is always an anti Bison crowd. The feeling among the average joe is it's a new stadium and a new tax for NDSU. That is not the case at all. It's not a tax period. It's the same cash we already approved and it's for upgrades.

Yes, NDSU will use it and pay for half of it and let them use the land for $1...but the expansion needs to be pushed as an entertainment facility that will change the face of entertainment in the area. And yes NDSU will also rent it.

We will see more concerts. We will see more trade shows, boat shows, home shows, and yes... ART SHOWS!

The dome is so overcrowed the football team cannot even practice. We're missing concert dates. When the dome is full, that means Fargo is losing out to shows in Grand Forks or they are not happening at all. The Alerus Center, Ralph, and Betty are very competitive and I'm sick of driving to Grand Forks. Let's keep the money here. (What happened to the days of the dome hosting the Rolling Stones, Guns N Roses, AC/DC, Aerosmith, Metallica... they all went to Grand Forks)

The key is to let the City Commission know you support it because the anti NDSU crowd will certainly come out in full force. They will be uneducated and spreading BS. Let's get out there.

Bison"FANatic"
04-11-2008, 02:08 PM
The city commision will support it if it comes out of the Dome Authority (I think that is what it is called) meeting with the recomendation to go forward. The key is the size, it has to fill the niche that is not already present. If Rob Sobolik thinks he can make it work that will be a huge step in the right direction.

sambini
04-18-2008, 04:27 AM
Vote DAVE PIEPKORN++++++++++

Wacker_in_the_Hall
04-29-2008, 04:10 PM
Korn is the right man for the job!

sambini
05-10-2008, 02:01 PM
Vote David Piepkorn +++++

Tatanka
05-10-2008, 03:18 PM
In C#, for all the homies:

//For Fargo City Commission
ballot myBallot = new ballot("Fargo City Commission");
myBallot = vote(!Williams);

99Bison
05-10-2008, 06:04 PM
In C#, for all the homies:

//For Fargo City Commission
ballot myBallot = new ballot("Fargo City Commission");
myBallot = vote(!Williams);

//Which will result in...
cityCommission commission = new cityCommission(Now());
commission.Remove("Williams");
commission.Add("Piepkorn");

sambini
05-10-2008, 11:21 PM
//Which will result in...
cityCommission commission = new cityCommission(Now());
commission.Remove("Williams");
commission.Add("Piepkorn"); For all FARGO residents++++

UTH
05-11-2008, 02:08 AM
In C#, for all the homies:

//For Fargo City Commission
ballot myBallot = new ballot("Fargo City Commission");
myBallot = vote(!Williams);


http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff311/indio_rojas/englishamericasofficiallanguagemora.jpg

*seriously fighting urge to participate in 'other language hijacking' of thread...:banghead:

Tatanka
05-11-2008, 02:48 AM
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s96/Tatankabucket/124b592a-2.jpg


:D

99Bison
05-11-2008, 03:17 AM
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff311/indio_rojas/englishamericasofficiallanguagemora.jpg

*seriously fighting urge to participate in 'other language hijacking' of thread...:banghead:


//For that you get a
UNDThunderingHerd --;

:D

UTH
05-11-2008, 06:04 AM
//For that you get a
UNDThunderingHerd --;

:D


У реду. Сваки човек може да има своје мишлене.
Ma arvan et see kõik väga hea on (at vi spille mid andre språk kan).
Was sollen wir jetzt schreiben? C++ i stedenfor bare engelsk? Интересно - очень интересно.

Ako bih ja živeo u Fargu, stemmar jag bare Piepkorn.


Ille Bison est!
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff311/indio_rojas/BisonXing.gif
omni Bisoni amici sunt




*OK. Each person can have his own opinion. I think that's all good (that we can play with other languages). What should we write now? C++ instead of just English? Interesting - very interesting. If I lived in Fargo, I'd only vote for Piepkorn. He's a Bison!

sambini
05-17-2008, 05:11 PM
Visit www.DavePiepkorn.com for any information on Dave. Also some old photos from his playing days at NDSU. Vote for Dave++++

NDSUstudent
05-21-2008, 04:38 AM
From the Forum's article on the 1/2 cent sales tax economic initiative....

Mike Williams, Fargo city commissioner, is sold on the growth plan, which he says is well thought out. But he doesn’t like the local sales tax as the funding mechanism.

“I think it’s a great idea,” he says. Because NDSU is a key part of the plan, the state should be the funding source, he says.

“It’s not Cass County State University, it’s North Dakota State University,” Williams says. “I think we can make the case” for state funding.

http://www.in-forum.com/News/articles/201803


I'm surprised Williams hasn't put the slogan, "If it helps NDSU, I'm against it!" on his campaign signs.

bisonmike2
05-21-2008, 02:22 PM
“It’s not Cass County State University, it’s North Dakota State University,” Williams says. “I think we can make the case” for state funding. "


Isn't Cass County State on UND's football schedule this year?


/sorry, had to do it.

BlueBisonRock
05-21-2008, 03:26 PM
“It’s not Cass County State University, it’s North Dakota State University,” Williams says. “I think we can make the case” for state funding. "


Isn't Cass County State on UND's football schedule this year?


sorry, had to do it.

Ummn, I thought that it was Minnesota State - Cass County CC that was on the UND football schedule this fall.


Continuing the off topic conversation...

bisonaudit
05-21-2008, 05:34 PM
I'm sure everyone in Lenoard appreciates the fact the FARGO CITY commissioner Williams is looking out for their best interests. Is he so tied in knots about this issue that he can't recall his job description or who's eligible to vote for him, or is this the trial balloon for his assault on the Governor's mansion?

Tatanka
05-21-2008, 09:56 PM
I'm sure everyone in Lenoard appreciates the fact the FARGO CITY commissioner Williams is looking out for their best interests. Is he so tied in knots about this issue that he can't recall his job description or who's eligible to vote for him, or is this the trial balloon for his assault on the Governor's mansion?
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh6/vigodagod/leadBalloon.jpg

sambini
05-22-2008, 01:40 AM
vote for DAVE+++

TheBisonator
05-23-2008, 03:45 PM
I was driving around my old neighbourhood in south Fargo yesterday and I saw a lot of Mike Williams signs on people's lawns. Very disheartening to see. Hopefully Piepkorn and Coates will get enough votes to kick the blagger out.

Tatanka
05-23-2008, 04:10 PM
I was driving around my old neighbourhood in south Fargo yesterday and I saw a lot of Mike Williams signs on people's lawns. Very disheartening to see. Hopefully Piepkorn and Coates will get enough votes to kick the blagger out.
Isn't there a leash law in Fargo?

Kind of sad that someone crapped all over these people's yards and didn't clean it up...:hide:

sambini
05-24-2008, 02:43 PM
I was driving around my old neighbourhood in south Fargo yesterday and I saw a lot of Mike Williams signs on people's lawns. Very disheartening to see. Hopefully Piepkorn and Coates will get enough votes to kick the blagger out. IF ANYONE WANTS A SAVE PIEPKORN YARD SIGN GO TO www.DavePiepkorn.com send them a message on there contact page. They will put one in your yard. Thanks for the support VOTE FOR DAVE ON JUNE 10th++++

TheDoctor
05-28-2008, 02:45 PM
IF ANYONE WANTS A SAVE PIEPKORN YARD SIGN GO TO www.DavePiepkorn.com send them a message on there contact page. They will put one in your yard. Thanks for the support VOTE FOR DAVE ON JUNE 10th++++

I emailed Thursday and he dropped one off on Saturday. June 10th! Good luck Dave. Also remember people that on the ballot it will say vote for 2. If you want your vote for Dave to seriously count, only vote for Dave and not Linda. Of course we run the risk of Williams beating Linda, but the most important thing is to get Dave in. ;)

roadwarrior
05-28-2008, 03:18 PM
I am only voting for one person in the city commission election. No sympathy vote for second person.

Bison bison
05-28-2008, 03:31 PM
write in craig bohl!

sambini
05-29-2008, 01:26 AM
Vote for Dave on JUNE 10TH+++

DORMIE
05-29-2008, 10:03 PM
I will be voting for only KORN also. We have to get rid of Williams, the anti NDSU SOB. For someone who prides himself on being such a financial genius, for him to say that NDSU is not Cass County State University and that the State should pay for everything, how about the 150 to 200 million that comes from the students, faculty and research grants every from the University. He just doesn't get it. He has to go.

TheDoctor
06-03-2008, 03:36 AM
I will be voting for only KORN also. We have to get rid of Williams, the anti NDSU SOB. For someone who prides himself on being such a financial genius, for him to say that NDSU is not Cass County State University and that the State should pay for everything, how about the 150 to 200 million that comes from the students, faculty and research grants every from the University. He just doesn't get it. He has to go.

The kicker about him is that he has season tickets (and attends) both football AND basketball games. I don't understand him at all. ;)

HerdBot
06-03-2008, 05:09 AM
Coates may be pro-university, but it seems to me she's just another problem in this town as one of the people that thinks they are a moral majority and everyone under the age of 30 is evil.

Then again, from what I've seen...she's "pro-whatever" wherever she happens to be at the time.

I'm with Coates and Piepkorn. Coates tends to feed off of people 30 and under so I'm not sure where your getting your information. Mike Williams is not getting my support.

NDSUstudent
06-03-2008, 06:19 AM
I'll be voting for Coates and Piepkorn as well, Williams has to go. Coates at least has an open mind to things that could help the city.

I spend a lot of time driving around Fargo and I have to say Piepkorn is clearly winning the sign battle. Its not even close.

sambini
06-04-2008, 03:17 AM
Vote for Dave on JUNE 10TH.

roadwarrior
06-04-2008, 06:05 PM
I Voted!

(cass county residents can vote this week at the Doublewood from 11-6)

TheDoctor
06-05-2008, 02:22 AM
I Voted!

(cass county residents can vote this week at the Doublewood from 11-6)

I voted today as well at the Doublewood Inn on 13th. If you have time too tomorrow or Friday, I'd recommend it. Quick and painless! ;)

1bizon1
06-05-2008, 09:10 PM
I'll vote for anybody that runs against Coates.

Me too! She has to go along with most all of our "check writing" school board members when their re-election comes due! Sorry, had to vent.

Bisonguy
06-05-2008, 10:42 PM
I voted today at the Doublewood! :nod:

Civil06
06-06-2008, 12:56 PM
The Forum endorsed Piepkorn and Coates today in their editorial.

http://www.in-forum.com/Opinion/articles/203966

I suppose they have to endorse 2, but they sure love Coates. Also, they have a pretty accurate review of Mike Williams history on the commission.

Vote for Dave!

Bison bison
06-06-2008, 01:29 PM
re:Williams His answer to every tough problem seems to be “take it to the voters,” which suggests a flawed view of representative government.

right on the money!

TheBisonator
06-06-2008, 04:17 PM
re:Williams His answer to every tough problem seems to be “take it to the voters,” which suggests a flawed view of representative government.

right on the money!

Exactly. Williams doesn't seem to realize we live in a democratic republic. As in, we vote for people in his position to vote on most of those issues.

imabison
06-11-2008, 02:46 AM
The Forum endorsed Piepkorn and Coates today in their editorial.

http://www.in-forum.com/Opinion/articles/203966

I suppose they have to endorse 2, but they sure love Coates. Also, they have a pretty accurate review of Mike Williams history on the commission.

Vote for Dave!
Very early returns in
Piepkorn 112
Coates 82
Williams 75
Dumont 27

2 of 20 precints reporting from www.in-forum.com

Doggone it Williams is to close to Coates somebody stuff a ballot box :) :)

NDSU1980
06-11-2008, 02:47 AM
I see the Forum is starting to post results. What do they mean when they list "under" and "over" votes? This is an election, not a sports bet. I see Williams is running 3rd so far.

imabison
06-11-2008, 02:52 AM
I see the Forum is starting to post results. What do they mean when they list "under" and "over" votes? This is an election, not a sports bet. I see Williams is running 3rd so far.
Over and Under is the number of votes tabulated by the Machines. Overvoting I think means you chose 3 candidates and were only allowed to chose 2 etc.

Under is where you did not vote at all when candidates were available. Or voted for 1 instead of 2. It caused the machine to BEEP annoyingly while I was trying to vote.

Both mean hand audits by the judges, and in the Overvoting might mean the ballot is not counted.

NDSU1980
06-11-2008, 03:12 AM
Dave Piepkorn 2,983 37%
Mike Williams 2,313 29%
Linda Coates 1,936 24%
Eugene A Dumont 718 9%
WRITE-IN 7 0%

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++

45% of the votes counted. Looks like Piepkorn will get in, Williams pulled ahead of Coates for now.

sambini
06-11-2008, 03:47 AM
Lets go Dave+++

roadwarrior
06-11-2008, 04:08 AM
Fargo will become a smoke free city! 61% vote for a total ban.

roadwarrior
06-11-2008, 04:11 AM
Piepkorn IN, Coates OUT, Williams STAYS.

Bisonguy
06-11-2008, 04:32 AM
Few more people should have voted for Coates...

TransAmBison
06-11-2008, 12:45 PM
Didn't want Williams, but very glad Coates is out.

bisonaudit
06-11-2008, 01:19 PM
Peipkorn in, Coates out, Williams retained. No change for NDSU. Net negative for Fargo. Just one man's opinion.

Congratulations to the 'do-nothing-NIMBY-idiot' crowd for retaining your voice on the commission. Well played.

roadwarrior
06-11-2008, 01:37 PM
I think that having Piepkorn over Coates on the commission is a positive for NDSU. Mike is still there, but he only has one vote.

Bison"FANatic"
06-11-2008, 01:42 PM
Congrats to Dave!!!!!!!!!!

The way the other one went well :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:, it is what it is though.

bisonhusker
06-11-2008, 07:45 PM
What will the status of JT Cigarro's be?

TheDoctor
06-11-2008, 08:02 PM
No exceptions----no smoking at JT's. ;)

SDbison
06-11-2008, 08:24 PM
No exceptions----no smoking at JT's. ;)
That's government for you. Got to love the inflexibility.......even a cigar shop can't allow its patrons to smoke. Go figure. So now that smoking in bars is prohibited I suppose MADD will want to eliminate drinking in bars. First they will have the alcohol limit lowered to .04 from .08. Then the cops will be allowed to pull over anyone that leaves a bar.
How about setting limits on what people can eat at restaurants. People don't want their insurance costs going up because of fat people. Not to mention who wants to look at them (they are infringing on peoples space). What about women and men who wear too much perfume or cologne. Makes me gag. I want to ban them from the workplace.

imabison
06-11-2008, 09:11 PM
That's government for you. Got to love the inflexibility.......even a cigar shop can't allow its patrons to smoke. Go figure. So now that smoking in bars is prohibited I suppose MADD will want to eliminate drinking in bars. First they will have the alcohol limit lowered to .04 from .08. Then the cops will be allowed to pull over anyone that leaves a bar.
How about setting limits on what people can eat at restaurants. People don't want their insurance costs going up because of fat people. Not to mention who wants to look at them (they are infringing on peoples space). What about women and men who wear too much perfume or cologne. Makes me gag. I want to ban them from the workplace.
I was told that JT's were planing a new club. New building. Membership only where only the patrons can go. Buy they drink in the bar and then carry it to the club. No club employees. Smoking allowed in the club only. Not in the bar.

The person that told me had most of the details, I would suspect they are following a plan from an existing city with a smoking ban.

Anyone else have details?

Bison_Pride
06-11-2008, 09:19 PM
Funny you should blame the government. The United States is one of the last countries in the world to initiate smoking bans. Most governments don't even bother to put it to a vote.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_smoking_bans

TheBisonator
06-11-2008, 10:42 PM
Funny you should blame the government. The United States is one of the last countries in the world to initiate smoking bans. Most governments don't even bother to put it to a vote.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_smoking_bans

But to be fair, it looks like most of those bans have taken place in the past five years.

However, I see smoking as something that may become passe in human culture in the future. I personally honestly don't see smoking becoming a widely done thing 100 years from now.

sambini
06-11-2008, 10:55 PM
Congrats to Dave +++

TransAmBison
06-12-2008, 01:37 AM
But to be fair, it looks like most of those bans have taken place in the past five years.

However, I see smoking as something that may become passe in human culture in the future. I personally honestly don't see smoking becoming a widely done thing 100 years from now.
People will always have their vices. The gov't couldn't afford to have smoking go away.

tjbison
06-12-2008, 03:30 AM
That's government for you. Got to love the inflexibility.......even a cigar shop can't allow its patrons to smoke. Go figure. So now that smoking in bars is prohibited I suppose MADD will want to eliminate drinking in bars. First they will have the alcohol limit lowered to .04 from .08. Then the cops will be allowed to pull over anyone that leaves a bar.
How about setting limits on what people can eat at restaurants. People don't want their insurance costs going up because of fat people. Not to mention who wants to look at them (they are infringing on peoples space). What about women and men who wear too much perfume or cologne. Makes me gag. I want to ban them from the workplace.

VERY TRUE, we have 250lbs 10 year olds in this country, but I can't have my "only when I drink" smokes in a 21 and older only bar.

SDbison
06-12-2008, 02:59 PM
VERY TRUE, we have 250lbs 10 year olds in this country, but I can't have my "only when I drink" smokes in a 21 and older only bar.
Actually I was being sarcastic. I am tired of the control freaks who want more government and more laws so they can live in their "bubble" and control others so they might live a few more days longer.

WePharm
06-12-2008, 06:02 PM
Last time I checked, I don't breathe fat people. Hats off to Fargo for passing the smoking ban. Hope it goes state wide. I just got a little more free. The freedom of going into a PUBLIC establishment of MY CHOICE (not the owners) and smelling like s**t when I leave and the freedom of maybe not having lung cancer, emphysema or asthma from second hand smoke (unlike my mother).

The majority in Fargo believe in the above and acted on it. God I love the USA!

TransAmBison
06-12-2008, 06:19 PM
Last time I checked, I don't breathe fat people. Hats off to Fargo for passing the smoking ban. Hope it goes state wide. I just got a little more free. The freedom of going into a PUBLIC establishment of MY CHOICE (not the owners) and smelling like s**t when I leave and the freedom of maybe not having lung cancer, emphysema or asthma from second hand smoke (unlike my mother).

The majority in Fargo believe in the above and acted on it. God I love the USA!
Good choice...breathing fat people will clog your arteries faster than you can say, "Supersize me please!" :D

SDbison
06-12-2008, 06:27 PM
Last time I checked, I don't breathe fat people. Hats off to Fargo for passing the smoking ban. Hope it goes state wide. I just got a little more free. The freedom of going into a PUBLIC establishment of MY CHOICE (not the owners) and smelling like s**t when I leave and the freedom of maybe not having lung cancer, emphysema or asthma from second hand smoke (unlike my mother).

The majority in Fargo believe in the above and acted on it. God I love the USA!
Got to love a simple majority making decisions for the rest of society (i.e 50.5 % can enforce their way on 49.5%.
Funny thing.....those PUBLIC establishments could have gone smoke free on their own if there was so much demand for it. Seems they always had difficulty making a go of it without the regular and occasional smokers. Now all the sensitive whiners got their way. My question is what is the next target of those who have to have it their way?
In the end govenment bans only assure there will always be demand for what is banned.

met1990
06-12-2008, 06:33 PM
My question is what is the next target of those who have to have it their way?


I think we should ban stupid people next. There's way too many of them around.

bisonaudit
06-12-2008, 06:33 PM
The state of Maryland has been smoke free for 2 years now and bar and resturant traffic has done nothing but increase. I have seen zero evidence to indicate that alcohol establishments fail because of smoking bans.

MN_BISON
06-12-2008, 06:37 PM
Last time I checked, I don't breathe fat people. Hats off to Fargo for passing the smoking ban. Hope it goes state wide. I just got a little more free. The freedom of going into a PUBLIC establishment of MY CHOICE (not the owners) and smelling like s**t when I leave and the freedom of maybe not having lung cancer, emphysema or asthma from second hand smoke (unlike my mother).

The majority in Fargo believe in the above and acted on it. God I love the USA!

You are free not to go into places that allow smoking too and for the record, I am not nor have I ever been a smoker. What is West Fargo doing? If they still allow smoking, the Fargo bars will take a huge it, I feel sorry the people who are going to take a big hit in the wallet due to less tips, but at least I won't have to wash my shirt after a night of boozin'. I have one word of advice for the Fargo smoker: KODIAK.
:hide:

bisonaudit
06-12-2008, 06:45 PM
This slippery slope stuff holds no water.

Even in the lawless days of the Wild West if you wanted a bourbon you had to give your side arm over to the bar tender first.

You can drink to excess in public but you can't drink to excess and then get behind the wheel. The standard isn't what's good or bad for you, it's whether or not you're endangering other people.

You can smoke you just can't do it in other people's air.

As for fat people, there is such a thing as a risk profile in the insurance industry. Not so much for healthcare because that's not individual insurance anymore, it's typically group insurance through your employer but even there the rate the carrier charges the employer will vary based on claim history, age profile of the workforce, etc. Ditto workers comp, life insurance, individual health insurance.

56BISON73
06-12-2008, 08:25 PM
There was a time when many people smoked and it was the norm. Times have changed. Its not the norm anymore.
Businesses will take a short time hit but those businesses usually rebound according to a study I read awhile back from NY.
Heck I dont allow my own mother to smoke in my house. PL

met1990
06-12-2008, 08:28 PM
If my mom tried smoking in my house, I'd smack that bitch.

imabison
06-12-2008, 08:49 PM
There was a time when many people smoked and it was the norm. Times have changed. Its not the norm anymore.
Businesses will take a short time hit but those businesses usually rebound according to a study I read awhile back from NY.
Heck I dont allow my own mother to smoke in my house. PL
I would think the Buffalo Wild Wings might just agree with you. When is the last time they did not have a lot full of cars.

Probably when they were closed:) :)

bisonaudit
06-12-2008, 09:08 PM
I would think the Buffalo Wild Wings might just agree with you. When is the last time they did not have a lot full of cars.

Probably when they were closed:) :)

How can you eat that stuff without having your nose and tastebuds dulled by smoking a half pack first? :)

MN_BISON
06-12-2008, 09:19 PM
There was a time when many people smoked and it was the norm. Times have changed. Its not the norm anymore.
Businesses will take a short time hit but those businesses usually rebound according to a study I read awhile back from NY.
Heck I dont allow my own mother to smoke in my house. PL

I guess I would agree if the whole state went for the ban and not just one city. Places like Buffalo Wild Wings will be fine, but look at your "real" bars, places like Rooters, Empire, Duffy's, Sports, ect, they will take a hit on this becasue if West Fargo and other surrounding places don't have to go by these rules you can bet people will start going other places for their after work beer and frozen pizza. I live in Scott County and when neighboring counties started the ban, business picked up.

I don't let my mom smoke in my house either, hell I don't even let her smoke in the garage..............

http://www.advantageservice.net/images/KodiakWintergreen_small.jpg

NDSU1980
06-12-2008, 09:34 PM
If my mom tried smoking in my house, I'd smack that bitch.

I agree with you 100%. If your mom tried smoking in my house, I'd smack her too. LOL.

Actually, I'm not a smoker, but I feel that bars should have the choice. Ban smoking in restaurants, malls, etc, but give bars a choice. JMHO.

Bison_Pride
06-12-2008, 10:47 PM
DaveK on SS is freaking out about the smoking ban. That's reason enough to support it.

56BISON73
06-12-2008, 11:03 PM
I guess I would agree if the whole state went for the ban and not just one city. Places like Buffalo Wild Wings will be fine, but look at your "real" bars, places like Rooters, Empire, Duffy's, Sports, ect, they will take a hit on this becasue if West Fargo and other surrounding places don't have to go by these rules you can bet people will start going other places for their after work beer and frozen pizza. I live in Scott County and when neighboring counties started the ban, business picked up.

I don't let my mom smoke in my house either, hell I don't even let her smoke in the garage..............

http://www.advantageservice.net/images/KodiakWintergreen_small.jpg

I dont know---but I would find it hard to believe that a person would give up their favorite bar to go to West Fargo just so they could smoke. But then again Im not a smoker. PL

Hammersmith
06-13-2008, 11:50 AM
West Fargo is a moot point because their city commission will almost certainly pass a total smoking ban within the month. On Tuesday, the city voted 57%/43% to advise the commission to do so. If the commission follows the will of the voters, the West Fargo total smoking ban will go into effect on the same day as the Fargo ban, July 1.

tjbison
06-13-2008, 10:28 PM
I smoke when I drink, and there are many nights I frequent smokefree bars, and later on or the next night if I'm feeling like it I'll go to a smoking bar and have a few, I have a feeling that 50% of the people who voted for the smoking ban will never give the establishments any business anyways, the places these voters mostly went are already smoke free like the restaurant bars, so think about JT Cigarro, i know they had an "optimistic" article in the paper, but I'll garantee they lose business as that was the main objective SMOKE, if you didn't smoke DON'T ENTER, but I do agree that now I can go to any bar without even thinking about a smoke until I walk out the door into the cloud that will greet everyone that enters or leaves the building.

TheDoctor
06-16-2008, 06:53 PM
You are free not to go into places that allow smoking too and for the record, I am not nor have I ever been a smoker. What is West Fargo doing? If they still allow smoking, the Fargo bars will take a huge it, I feel sorry the people who are going to take a big hit in the wallet due to less tips, but at least I won't have to wash my shirt after a night of boozin'. I have one word of advice for the Fargo smoker: KODIAK.
:hide:

West Fargo (being much smaller than Fargo) wanted to do whatever Fargo does, so as not to kill their businesses. So, they voted to advise the Commission to put a total ban in place if Fargo does. Fargo did and it goes into effect at the beginning of the month. Look for the WF City Commission to move quickly to do the same and not end up with Fargo bar patrons coming over to smoke in their bars any longer than they have to. ;)

Till
06-16-2008, 07:18 PM
I just throught of an unexpected bonus of this as well. Since we're apparently running all of the smokers out of town to go drink in Wild Rice, Horace, Cassleton, etc. Fargo's revenue from DUI's is bound to go up. Maybe that can take up some of the slack from the sales tax that was voted down.

When the businesses claim that they want the ability to decide for themselves we all know that they'll choose with their bottom line in mind, not the health of their patrons. I know the argument will be that non-smokers don't have to go to the bars to drink, but the smokers don't need to go there to smoke either. There really isn't a difference and you're never going to make everyone happy.

It seems to me that we've done it one way, how about we try it the other way for a while to see how it goes.

Herd Mentality
06-16-2008, 09:08 PM
What really bothers me...

What if I chose to open
"Smokey Smokerson's Smoking Lounge for Smokers Only"....

I can't....which sucks, because I'd be able to mop up.

Some of the indian casino's should start looking at opening bars in Fargo, I bet they could probably skate this whole issue with smoking since they're sovreign.

PS - what is the fine for getting caught smoking?

MN_BISON
06-16-2008, 09:34 PM
Can you still smoke in private clubs? I know Fargo doesn't have an Eagles or at least I don't think they do, regardless, could one light up a heater in the Eagles, Elks, ect?

TheDoctor
06-16-2008, 11:05 PM
Can you still smoke in private clubs? I know Fargo doesn't have an Eagles or at least I don't think they do, regardless, could one light up a heater in the Eagles, Elks, ect?

Nope---no clubs either. ;)

Ferd
06-16-2008, 11:25 PM
Everyone keeps saying that the citizens of Fargo voted for the smoking ban. It was only the majority of the people that cared enough to vote at all.

I quit smoking in 1979 when you could smoke anywhere. When I quit smoking I reduced the number of businesses I did business with that allowed smoking. My choice. I don't force my opinions on people that can make their own choices.

I don't have a RIGHT to go anywhere I want to. I do have a right to choose. Those that smoke no longer a have a right to choose.

I think it's wrong to eliminate a business from a community when they were legally established! Isn't this an example of "Ex post facto" legislation?

Sorry for the rant but I'm tired of the minority restricting the actions of the majority.

HerdBot
06-17-2008, 03:55 AM
Everyone keeps saying that the citizens of Fargo voted for the smoking ban. It was only the majority of the people that cared enough to vote at all.

I quit smoking in 1979 when you could smoke anywhere. When I quit smoking I reduced the number of businesses I did business with that allowed smoking. My choice. I don't force my opinions on people that can make their own choices.

I don't have a RIGHT to go anywhere I want to. I do have a right to choose. Those that smoke no longer a have a right to choose.

I think it's wrong to eliminate a business from a community when they were legally established! Isn't this an example of "Ex post facto" legislation?

Sorry for the rant but I'm tired of the minority restricting the actions of the majority.

I don't think non smokers are the minority. In fact, 90% of the population doesn't smoke so it's the complete opposite. The minority was dictating the rules.

If all bars are smoke free than it's an even playing field so it's not going to hurt them. Seriously... if a business is defined by their smoking choices than they are really lacking some creativity or good old fashioned management skills.

If that's all they can offer than quite frankly I don't give a fuck if they go out of business. I hope they go under.

Besides, it's the same 3 jackasses that own every damn liquor license in town. Anyone want to try and open a bar? You can't... because the same 3 guys own them all and they are not making any more.

HerdBot
06-17-2008, 04:20 AM
Everyone keeps saying that the citizens of Fargo voted for the smoking ban. It was only the majority of the people that cared enough to vote at all.

I quit smoking in 1979 when you could smoke anywhere. When I quit smoking I reduced the number of businesses I did business with that allowed smoking. My choice. I don't force my opinions on people that can make their own choices.

I don't have a RIGHT to go anywhere I want to. I do have a right to choose. Those that smoke no longer a have a right to choose.

I think it's wrong to eliminate a business from a community when they were legally established! Isn't this an example of "Ex post facto" legislation?

Sorry for the rant but I'm tired of the minority restricting the actions of the majority.

I thought smokers were the minority?

The next step...

- make it criminal for parents to smoke in their cars with their children
- make it criminal for parents to smoke in their house around children

Ferd
06-17-2008, 02:50 PM
I don't think non smokers are the minority. In fact, 90% of the population doesn't smoke so it's the complete opposite. The minority was dictating the rules.

If all bars are smoke free than it's an even playing field so it's not going to hurt them. Seriously... if a business is defined by their smoking choices than they are really lacking some creativity or good old fashioned management skills.

If that's all they can offer than quite frankly I don't give a fuck if they go out of business. I hope they go under.

Besides, it's the same 3 jackasses that own every damn liquor license in town. Anyone want to try and open a bar? You can't... because the same 3 guys own them all and they are not making any more.

Where does this number come from? The number of people that voted to eliminate smoking is a very small minority of the people in Fargo. The majority of voters approved the measure.

I wasn't talking about creativity or ownership. The business was legally established and appeared to be making a go of it and they are now forced to close by a minority of the population.

As an analogy, since drinking alcohol in excess is bad for you, and if you drive drunk you may kill me, maybe we should outlaw bars altogether! :banghead:

My point is: I am responsible for my own behavior. I can choose which facilities I go to. We shouldn't need laws to protect us from making bad decisions.

roadwarrior
06-17-2008, 03:05 PM
West Fargo city commission passed a total smoking ban last night. Effective July 1st.

HerdBot
06-17-2008, 03:43 PM
Where does this number come from? The number of people that voted to eliminate smoking is a very small minority of the people in Fargo. The majority of voters approved the measure.

I wasn't talking about creativity or ownership. The business was legally established and appeared to be making a go of it and they are now forced to close by a minority of the population.

As an analogy, since drinking alcohol in excess is bad for you, and if you drive drunk you may kill me, maybe we should outlaw bars altogether! :banghead:

My point is: I am responsible for my own behavior. I can choose which facilities I go to. We shouldn't need laws to protect us from making bad decisions.

The number of people who voted against the smoking ban was much smaller minority than the one that voted for the smoking ban.

Outlaw bars? I don't get your point. Somebody else drinking a beer doesn't give me cancer. And we already have laws that make it illegal to drink and drive. If you kill someone you go to prison.

We need laws to protect us from making bad decisions. That's why they made DUI laws. People make bad choices when they drink. The public needs to be protected from those bad choices, that's why they make laws like DUI.

Herd Mentality
06-17-2008, 03:58 PM
"We need laws to protect us from making bad decisions."

OMG, you've drank the KoolAid. Somebody shut this thread down before I have a coronary.

Trim
06-17-2008, 04:01 PM
"We need laws to protect us from making bad decisions."

OMG, you've drank the KoolAid. Somebody shut this thread down before I have a coronary.

You beat me to it Herd.

Civil06
06-17-2008, 04:17 PM
"We need laws to protect us from making bad decisions."

OMG, you've drank the KoolAid. Somebody shut this thread down before I have a coronary.

I feel the same. Self control has left the building. :banghead:

Hammersmith
06-17-2008, 04:18 PM
"We need laws to protect us from making bad decisions."

OMG, you've drank the KoolAid. Somebody shut this thread down before I have a coronary.

I would argue the correct form of that phrase is: "We need laws to protect us from other people making bad decisions."

I can accept that the full smoking ban falls into that category(I voted for it). I can see the other side's point, but it's not enough in my mind. Also, I survived non-smoking related cancer and I wouldn't wish chemo and radiation on my worst enemy(well...maybe MplsBison j/k :D ). Another point that's hard to refute is that the turnout for last week's election was high. In fact, for a non-mayoral, primary election, it was extremely high. Cass County has just under 100,000 eligible voters and the turnout was a little over 25,000. Normal turnout for this type of election is below 10,000. Everyone had their chance to vote, and the results were pretty clear.

On a side topic, even though I don't like Measure #1, I'm still laughing at how it backfired on Thorson & Co. They wanted to use it to lock the door on the partial ban. Well, they locked the door all right; it just happened to be the wrong one. Now, even if they manage to get a different city commission, they still can't overturn the ban. Dumb-asses.

56BISON73
06-17-2008, 05:24 PM
The number of people who voted against the smoking ban was much smaller minority than the one that voted for the smoking ban.

Outlaw bars? I don't get your point. Somebody else drinking a beer doesn't give me cancer. And we already have laws that make it illegal to drink and drive. If you kill someone you go to prison.

We need laws to protect us from making bad decisions. That's why they made DUI laws. People make bad choices when they drink. The public needs to be protected from those bad choices, that's why they make laws like DUI.

The only problem is the law doesnt protect us from drunk drivers. It only punishes drunk drivers and now feeds a whole industry dedicated to that law. At least allot of sociology majors can now find employment. PL

bisonaudit
06-17-2008, 05:54 PM
I would argue the correct form of that phrase is: "We need laws to protect us from other people making bad decisions."



Agree. The proper role of government isn't to protect me from myself, it's to protect me from others.

And I think a public smoking ban is absolutely consistent with that principal.

Herd Mentality
06-17-2008, 08:41 PM
Agree. The proper role of government isn't to protect me from myself, it's to protect me from others.

And I think a public smoking ban is absolutely consistent with that principal.

But didn't they already do that?

In all reality, I felt there was nothing wrong with the existing ordinance. It left a lot of places you could go if you smoked or if you did not. What the ban SHOULD have covered were PUBLIC places outdoors. Why should I have to sit at ribfest/fair with 100's of people smoking? Now the people who smoke will be outside and those of you that "don't go to bars" will feel the impact more. If you would have left them indoors, you would have been fine. I may buy a truckload of cigarettes and then set them on fire one day where there is a nice stiff wind to prove my point.

PS - Measure one did not BACKFIRE. It was a point being made and it was made that the commission shouldn't be able to just up and change an ordinance that had been voted on.

Ferd
06-17-2008, 08:56 PM
The number of people who voted against the smoking ban was much smaller minority than the one that voted for the smoking ban.

Outlaw bars? I don't get your point. Somebody else drinking a beer doesn't give me cancer. And we already have laws that make it illegal to drink and drive. If you kill someone you go to prison.

We need laws to protect us from making bad decisions. That's why they made DUI laws. People make bad choices when they drink. The public needs to be protected from those bad choices, that's why they make laws like DUI.

You are correct ... and even when you add them together it's a small minority of the population that cared enough to even vote.

And I don't have to breathe second hand smoke if I don't go into a place that allows smoking.

Not all DUIs receive enough punishment to stop them from doing it again. Those are the people I need to be protected against.

Everyone needs to take responsibility for their own actions. If you don't want to breathe smoke, don't go into a place that allows smoking.

Ferd
06-17-2008, 08:59 PM
But didn't they already do that?

In all reality, I felt there was nothing wrong with the existing ordinance. It left a lot of places you could go if you smoked or if you did not. What the ban SHOULD have covered were PUBLIC places outdoors. Why should I have to sit at ribfest/fair with 100's of people smoking? Now the people who smoke will be outside and those of you that "don't go to bars" will feel the impact more. If you would have left them indoors, you would have been fine. I may buy a truckload of cigarettes and then set them on fire one day where there is a nice stiff wind to prove my point.

PS - Measure one did not BACKFIRE. It was a point being made and it was made that the commission shouldn't be able to just up and change an ordinance that had been voted on.

Your point about PUBLIC places is well taken.

HerdBot
06-17-2008, 10:43 PM
You are correct ... and even when you add them together it's a small minority of the population that cared enough to even vote.

And I don't have to breathe second hand smoke if I don't go into a place that allows smoking.

Not all DUIs receive enough punishment to stop them from doing it again. Those are the people I need to be protected against.

Everyone needs to take responsibility for their own actions. If you don't want to breathe smoke, don't go into a place that allows smoking.

If you were in a desparate situation and the only job you could get was around smoke... would you be exposed to it?

What about other social functions that you cant miss like wedding receptions? We can all say we have a choice but the truth is we dont always and that is not fair to the non smokers

My 2 cents.

Till
06-17-2008, 10:55 PM
You are correct ... and even when you add them together it's a small minority of the population that cared enough to even vote.

And I don't have to breathe second hand smoke if I don't go into a place that allows smoking.

Not all DUIs receive enough punishment to stop them from doing it again. Those are the people I need to be protected against.

Everyone needs to take responsibility for their own actions. If you don't want to breathe smoke, don't go into a place that allows smoking.

So you're basically saying that bars can only realistically cater to one group, those who do or do not smoke?

I guess I don't think it's fair that I should be told to not go somewhere I enjoy hanging out just because someone wants to smoke there. If someone is going to make a like choice to take up something like smoking they can do it on the terms of the rest of civilization.

DenverBison05
06-18-2008, 01:42 AM
This topic is getting a little rediculous. I haven't seen the exact wording of this ordinance but if it's like Denver's, and it sounds like it is, then smokers will still be allowed to smoke at bars; they just wont be able to smoke inside the bars. Haven't you guys ever heard of patios, with heatlamps for the winter. Most of my friends smoke, and they are still able to smoke at bars here in Denver, they just have to do it on the patios.

The ordinance is not the end of the world as we know it, other cities have adapted to it just fine and so will Fargo.

sambini
06-18-2008, 10:53 AM
Good luck to Dave Piepkorn as you start your new term.

TransAmBison
06-18-2008, 12:54 PM
If you were in a desparate situation and the only job you could get was around smoke... would you be exposed to it?

What about other social functions that you cant miss like wedding receptions? We can all say we have a choice but the truth is we dont always and that is not fair to the non smokers

My 2 cents.
If the person could only get that job, they have made their own bad decisions that limited them to that position.

Bison bison
06-18-2008, 08:19 PM
so much for the preferential option for the poor!

Civil06
06-18-2008, 08:45 PM
If you were in a desparate situation and the only job you could get was around smoke... would you be exposed to it?


I don't like wiping ass and will never apply at a nursing home.:p

Ferd
06-18-2008, 11:20 PM
... stuff deleted ...

We can all say we have a choice but the truth is we dont always and that is not fair to the non smokers

My 2 cents.

And now I don't have a choice!

* I am a non-smoker

mebisonII
06-19-2008, 02:17 PM
You know, normally I try to be conscious of other people's rights, even when they are inconvient or annoying to me, but with smoking, I just don't care. I love being able to sit in a restaurant or go to a pool hall without having to hang my clothes on the deck when I get home to air out. Ideally, this could come about without bans as consumer demand just pushed for some bars and restaurants to be smoke-free, but it doesn't seem to work that way, so I'll take the ban. Selfish, perhaps, but we can all indulge in that once in a while ;)

Herd Mentality
06-19-2008, 04:33 PM
You know, normally I try to be conscious of other people's rights, even when they are inconvient or annoying to me, but with smoking, I just don't care. I love being able to sit in a restaurant or go to a pool hall without having to hang my clothes on the deck when I get home to air out. Ideally, this could come about without bans as consumer demand just pushed for some bars and restaurants to be smoke-free, but it doesn't seem to work that way, so I'll take the ban. Selfish, perhaps, but we can all indulge in that once in a while ;)

Hold on a second. The ban on restaurants and pool halls was already in place. So this sounds like just another hollow argument...

mebisonII
06-19-2008, 05:10 PM
Hold on a second. The ban on restaurants and pool halls was already in place. So this sounds like just another hollow argument...

Yeah, I'm not in Fargo and really don't even know what the current measure was, it was more of a general comment. Also, I wasn't trying to make an argument, I was trying to say that I don't really care about the arguments, I just don't want to have to smell or breath it.

tony
07-01-2008, 11:42 AM
Hopefully the smoking ban works out for everybody. I'm probably not the only one who all but gave up on going to bars because I was sick of the stink of them following me home. The bars that best figure out how to attract all those potential customers they drove away will thrive.

BISON Thunder
07-01-2008, 12:04 PM
The smokers lost my support when:

1. recently, he/she flicked his/her cigarette butt out his/her car window and the butt landed on my vehicle (why do so many smokers think it is okay to do this?).

2. two smokers (women) talking to each other in a bar, thought it okay to continue to exhale their smoke away from each other and into my "space" (if they do not like the smoke, why would I?).

I am all for personal rights, but when it infringes on others...you get what you ask for.

Bison Dan
07-01-2008, 12:23 PM
The smokers lost my support when:

1. recently, he/she flicked his/her cigarette butt out his/her car window and the butt landed on my vehicle (why do so many smokers think it is okay to do this?).

2. two smokers (women) talking to each other in a bar, thought it okay to continue to exhale their smoke away from each other and into my "space" (if they do not like the smoke, why would I?).

I am all for personal rights, but when it infringes on others...you get what you ask for.

I have to agree - most smokers are their own worst enemy and are the cause of the new law.

Paulie
07-01-2008, 09:07 PM
Filthy, disgusting habit. I'm sure LakesDouchBag is a heavy smoker.

TheDoctor
07-01-2008, 10:05 PM
Filthy, disgusting habit. I'm sure LakesDouchBag is a heavy smoker.

:rofl: Funny that you say that....we had to stop several times on the way down to SD for the basketball game so Lakes could have a few cigs! ;)

UTH
07-01-2008, 10:11 PM
Filthy, disgusting habit. I'm sure LakesDouchBag is a heavy smoker.

Say that he lies. Say that he is immature. Say that he has no credibility. That should all be fair game.


Simple namecalling:
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff311/indio_rojas/Midgettoughguy.jpg
It's for internet tough guys.

Bison Dan
07-07-2008, 04:20 PM
:rofl: Funny that you say that....we had to stop several times on the way down to SD for the basketball game so Lakes could have a few cigs! ;)

I thought it was the hot blond he was with??

TheDoctor
07-07-2008, 05:36 PM
I thought it was the hot blond he was with??

All 3 were actually smoking the cigs. Wasn't the other guy named unbison on here at one time??? ;)

SlickVic
07-07-2008, 05:49 PM
I thought it was the hot blond he was with??

she was smoking something else when we got rid of lakes ;)

Bison Dan
07-07-2008, 06:02 PM
she was smoking something else when we got rid of lakes ;)

Yea Slick had his pick of her and hot Shirley. I forgot who you took home.

TheDoctor
07-07-2008, 08:22 PM
Yea Slick had his pick of her and hot Shirley. I forgot who you took home.

:rofl: That was hillarious! :rofl:

sambini
07-10-2008, 09:33 AM
Slick you are the man+++

TheDoctor
07-10-2008, 03:08 PM
Slick you are the man+++

You have to take some credit for him Sambini--he was working on liquid courage (beer). Kind of like Scooby Doo could do anything, if a Scooby Snack was involved. Well, thanks again Sambini for providing the Scooby Snacks! ;)

sambini
07-10-2008, 10:55 PM
Any time wish I could have seen it.

ndsubison1
05-09-2012, 12:08 PM
vote for piepkorn and gehrig!

sambini
05-09-2012, 11:29 PM
Vote for dave peipkorn

MNLonghorn10
05-11-2012, 05:28 PM
http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/535310_10151689635760648_637035647_24240694_136113 262_n.jpg

North Side
05-11-2012, 06:33 PM
yeah I a seriously did a double take the 1st time I saw that sign, just about got into an accident. Vote Sobolik!

Civil06
05-11-2012, 06:35 PM
yeah I a seriously did a double take the 1st time I saw that sign, just about got into an accident. Vote Sobolik!

Yeah, I thought maybe one of the bums with signs was getting creative. Almost drove into the car in front of me.

Bisonguy
05-22-2012, 01:45 AM
I definitely will not be voting for Piepkorn. His company is conveniently being used on city property, along with voting for the bike lanes twice but now for some reason is grandstanding against them. Seems like he has an Al Carlson complex.

Gehring is even more clueless. One of his main arguments against the bike lanes is that they can't be used for more than six months out of the year. Really? Look at Minneapolis' bike lanes during the winter. They actually do get used during the winter. If his criteria for something to be worthless to the city is that it can't be used for more than six months out of they year, I hope he wants to close down all the playgrounds, outdoor skating rinks, football fields, baseball fields, soccer fields, rip up all the flowers in the city parks, and tear down all the flood protection because that sure isn't needed more than six months out of the year.


I'll vote for Sobolik and seeing as how I have to vote for two, I guess my other vote will go to Williams. At least he has enough common sense to stop people from building in the flood plain and wants to contain the sprawl in Fargo.

Wacker_in_the_Hall
05-22-2012, 04:25 PM
Here is a question........who will support Bison Athletics more than an ex-Bison???? Dave Piepkorn never voted to have the Bike lanes on the One-ways in Fargo

Think about how stupid that is??? Those roads are overused and slow as it is!! Lets add bike lanes??? PLAIN STUPID

Dave Piepkorn is a responsible involved Commissioner who has common sense. He is the ultimate friend for NDSU and Bison Athletics.

Mr. Burgundy
05-22-2012, 04:38 PM
Here is a question........who will support Bison Athletics more than an ex-Bison???? Dave Piepkorn never voted to have the Bike lanes on the One-ways in Fargo

Think about how stupid that is??? Those roads are overused and slow as it is!! Lets add bike lanes??? PLAIN STUPID

Dave Piepkorn is a responsible involved Commissioner who has common sense. He is the ultimate friend for NDSU and Bison Athletics.

NO QUESTION!!! Piepkorn has a great track record and has really helped NDSU over the years. Williams has been anti fun, NDSU, anything forever.

If you like to tailgate......you want Piepkorn...and DO NOT want Williams. I won't even charge for that advice.

Bisonguy
05-22-2012, 05:04 PM
Here is a question........who will support Bison Athletics more than an ex-Bison???? Dave Piepkorn never voted to have the Bike lanes on the One-ways in Fargo

Think about how stupid that is??? Those roads are overused and slow as it is!! Lets add bike lanes??? PLAIN STUPID

Dave Piepkorn is a responsible involved Commissioner who has common sense. He is the ultimate friend for NDSU and Bison Athletics.

Bullshit. He voted yay for the bike lanes which were always planned to be on 10th and University on a vote for the city commission and one for MetroCOG. The fact that he apparently didn't even read what the project entailed is reason enough to not vote for him. Seriously, he's getting paid to vote so he should at least attempt to make an educated vote.

Bison Dan
05-22-2012, 05:12 PM
Bullshit. He voted yay for the bike lanes which were always planned to be on 10th and University on a vote for the city commission and one for MetroCOG. The fact that he apparently didn't even read what the project entailed is reason enough to not vote for him. Seriously, he's getting paid to vote so he should at least attempt to make an educated vote.
Vote for whoever you want - but the only real supporter of NDSU is Dave.

roadwarrior
05-22-2012, 05:40 PM
And speaking of those bike lanes. Anyone else notice the hash marks on N 10th St and N University Dr marking where the lanes will/would go? Between Chubs and the Dairy Queen, there will be one driving lane removed so that 5 bikes per day can have their own lane!

This isn't even the dumbest idea the city traffic planner has come up with either! Now he is suggesting that the stoplight where 2nd St curves around the Fargo High Rise and meets 4th St and also meets the east entrance to the Y parking lot should be replaced with a roundabout.

BadlandsBison
05-22-2012, 05:49 PM
I enjoy riding bike on Fargo's many many sidewalks. I must be the only one

Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk 2

EndZoneQB
05-22-2012, 05:58 PM
And speaking of those bike lanes. Anyone else notice the hash marks on N 10th St and N University Dr marking where the lanes will/would go? Between Chubs and the Dairy Queen, there will be one driving lane removed so that 5 bikes per day can have their own lane!

This isn't even the dumbest idea the city traffic planner has come up with either! Now he is suggesting that the stoplight where 2nd St curves around the Fargo High Rise and meets 4th St and also meets the east entrance to the Y parking lot should be replaced with a roundabout.

What is the infatuation with roundabouts these days?

Hammersmith
05-22-2012, 06:04 PM
What is the infatuation with roundabouts these days?
We're North Dakota. We like to adopt ideas that the rest of the country figured out were crap 15 years ago. [/notpurplefont]

coldspot
05-22-2012, 06:07 PM
I enjoy riding bike on Fargo's many many sidewalks. I must be the only one

Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk 2

as do I. no sense in riding 15 MPH in the street while the cars going by are doubling/tripling that speed. the last thing I want is to get blasted from behind by somebody* going twice as fast. Widen out the sidewalks to accommodate walkers and bike riders instead of forcing them into the streets.

*TWSS

HerdBot
05-22-2012, 06:47 PM
Coates wants $63 million Art complex, are you KIDDING ME?

how bout $63 million expansion to the Fargodome, make it up to 30,000 and add the 7500 basketball arena attached with the money.


Arts... what the hell, anyone down in minneapolis has seen how the GUTHRIE destroyed Vikings/Twins Tailgating.

Coates actually supported the Fargodome addition.
http://coates.areavoices.com/2007/01/07/fargodome-expansion/

Here are her quotes from 2007...

" Here’s where I stand on this issue:

First of all,I think the various sales tax projects that have been approved by Fargo voters reveal a fundamental value of people in this community –a down-to-earth, common-sense and frugal approach to everyday challenges and day-to-day living, but also a willingness to invest in high-quality projects for the future. A desire to dream big while also being practical.

I am supportive of an addition to the Fargodome,under the following assumptions:

1 –that part of the funding will come from funds already available for the dome (Fargodome sales tax surplus) and part will come from NDSU;

2 –that there actually ARE surplus sales tax funds,which we will see for sure when the updated capital improvement plan is completed;and

3 –sales taxes voted on and approved for the Fargodome should stay dedicated to the Fargodome in some manner;and

4 –that the added facility will serve not only as a Bison basketball venue but also as a versatile space that will help the Fargodome itself remain viable in the future as the face of the entertainment industry continues to change with the times"


On art... I am not a big art guy either but at least she wants to see Fargo grow as an entertainment center. Arts are lame but stuff like that keeps and draws people to the area.

I will be voting for Piepkorn and possibly Coates. I'm not sure how she would vote today. Mike Williams is a big time no. Im generally a fiscal conservative but I like to see local government take on projects. Im just typically opposed to the state spending money, with the exception of college because they are state owned.

roadwarrior
05-22-2012, 06:54 PM
I will be voting for Piepkorn and possibly Coates.

Good luck with that! Seeing how Coates isnt on the ballot. Well, I guess a write-in would work.

(Don't you hate it when someone brings back a thread from four years ago? LOL)

Bisonguy
05-22-2012, 08:51 PM
I enjoy riding bike on Fargo's many many sidewalks. I must be the only one

Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk 2

You're far from the only one, however cyclists are much more likely to be hit by a car while riding on a sidewalk than if they're riding in the street. There's umpteen studies that can easily be found that confirm this fact.
The danger appears whenever the cyclist negotiates an intersection. Drivers simply do not look for people on the sidewalk (which is, incidentally, why walking is by far the most dangerous form of personal transportation).

The bike lanes on 10th and University are being made to help NDSU students have a safe route to the downtown campus . I've never seen a local issue where ignorance on the part of the public has created such a staunch opposition. Once again the people of Fargo aspire to be a larger version of Grand Forks instead of a Madison, Eugene, Davis, or Gainesville.

bisonaudit
05-22-2012, 09:03 PM
What is the infatuation with roundabouts these days?

The studies suggest that they are safer and more efficient than other solutions.

http://www.slate.com/articles/life/transport/2009/07/dont_be_so_square.html

roadwarrior
05-22-2012, 09:20 PM
The studies suggest that they are safer and more efficient than other solutions.

http://www.slate.com/articles/life/transport/2009/07/dont_be_so_square.html

But this study did not factor in how stupid the average driver is in F-M.

bisonaudit
05-22-2012, 09:40 PM
But this study did not factor in how stupid the average driver is in F-M.

That's actually part of the reason why they're safer.

HerdBot
05-22-2012, 10:27 PM
Good luck with that! Seeing how Coates isnt on the ballot. Well, I guess a write-in would work.

(Don't you hate it when someone brings back a thread from four years ago? LOL)

Funny. Couldn't figure out how Lakes is posting! Yeah should be a 6 mo rule. I didnt remember seeing Coates name anywhere

HerdBot
05-22-2012, 10:33 PM
Bullshit. He voted yay for the bike lanes which were always planned to be on 10th and University on a vote for the city commission and one for MetroCOG. The fact that he apparently didn't even read what the project entailed is reason enough to not vote for him. Seriously, he's getting paid to vote so he should at least attempt to make an educated vote.

I don't make my decisions on the Bike Lane issue . Its not that important. Piepkorn is a top notch guy.

Fast50Dad
05-22-2012, 10:56 PM
Gehrig's got my vote!

Go Bison!

Bisonguy
05-23-2012, 01:16 AM
I don't make my decisions on the Bike Lane issue . Its not that important. Piepkorn is a top notch guy.

I don't either, but it's very telling of how much thought and research goes into his votes. I couldn't care less if he was opposed from the beginning, but to vote for a project twice that included them and then start grandstanding against them once it becomes a hot topic seems very Al Carlsonish to me.

What exactly makes him a top-notch guy and the best candidate for the city commission in your eyes? Has there been any examples of him standing up for NDSU in the city commission?

sambini
05-25-2012, 02:05 AM
Dave Piepkorn is top notch and cares for our city. And he is a BISON ...Gets my VOTE.

sambini
05-25-2012, 02:07 AM
BISONGUY Maybe you should be running????

TransAmBison
05-25-2012, 03:51 AM
BISONGUY Maybe you should be running????I would vote for him. He might have terrible taste in Chinese food, but he makes the best ribs in the upper midwest. :D

IndyBison
05-25-2012, 12:35 PM
The studies suggest that they are safer and more efficient than other solutions.

http://www.slate.com/articles/life/transport/2009/07/dont_be_so_square.html
One of the Indy suburbs started building them a few years ago and at first there was a lot of confusion but now they are very popular. They help significantly with traffic flow and I believe are safer once drivers get used to them. They are now being used more and more around the city. One major road (similar to 13th St by West Acres but with fewer intersections) was turned into a freeway with roundabouts at the top of the exit ramps. It was expensive but it's now much better driving through this area.

Your best approach will be to have multiple built in an area though, not just one.

Bison"FANatic"
05-25-2012, 01:40 PM
One of the Indy suburbs started building them a few years ago and at first there was a lot of confusion but now they are very popular. They help significantly with traffic flow and I believe are safer once drivers get used to them. They are now being used more and more around the city. One major road (similar to 13th St by West Acres but with fewer intersections) was turned into a freeway with roundabouts at the top of the exit ramps. It was expensive but it's now much better driving through this area.

Your best approach will be to have multiple built in an area though, not just one.

I drive through the one in Charleswood daily and it works great 99% of the time. Traffic flows well and doesn't get backed up the way a 4 way stop would.


On Piepkorn if you know him you know a ton of thought goes into his votes and he isn't afraid to vote to look into something but if he doesn't like the results he doesn't just let it slide. If I had a vote in Fargo it would go to Piepkorn.