Why 20 or 30 Thousand People Went to the Dome

[CaBisonFan]

Much has been written about how the Bison peaked too early in Minneapolis last fall. I have been one of the people that has written about it.

These thoughts have come to mind:

I still consider myself to be a North Dakotan. It is where I grew up on a wheat farm east of Mayville. I'm related to half of the community. It's where my ancestors settled after leaving Norway in the 19th century.

As much pride as I have always had in being a North Dakotan, there has also been a sense of inferiority. As a kid, I thought that everything important happened somewhere else. You know, movies were made in Hollywood, really big games were at places like Nebraska & USC, professional sports happened somewhere else, famous musicians came from somewhere else...etc, etc.

When Gene Taylor accepted the 2006 invitation to play the Gophers I really feared a slaughter. I had always thought that Big Ten schools, and schools from other big conferences, were so far superior that the Bison couldn't touch them, even in a down year. I wanted to believe different, but deep down inside, I didn't believe.

The 2006 game was a break from that attitude. It changed my thinking. I suppose one could say that I've chosen to live in California because I wanted to be closer to the action...and that's partially true. It wasn't really so much about the weather. The California myth of fun in the sun, hot cars, the movie industry, and everything else was a lure even when I was a kid. UCLA basketball mesmerized me. John Wooden seemed like a god. And to this day, I still feel that way about him.

Living away from North Dakota has given me a new perspective on a lot of things. From where I'm at, the Minnesota games were much more than football games. They were an awakening for people who shared my outlook.

The 2006 game was the launching pad to the 2007 game. There was no way that the 2007 game wasn't going to be the focus of the season. Everything else leading up to it was preparation for the big one. It was the World Series, the Stanley Cup, and the Super Bowl all wrapped up into one for many Bison fans...and probably the team. Anything after that was going to be a letdown...kind of like having exhibition games after the season instead of before it. It felt strange. Even the idea of a conference championship somehow didn't match the Minnesota experience.

Why did 30,000 people (or somewhere in that ballpark) show up in Minneapolis?

They came because the Bison had broken through the myth. It wasn't just about football, even though it was a hell of a game. It was about North Dakotans feeling a breath of extremely fresh air, knowing finally, that there's nothing inferior about our home state. In fact, there are things in North Dakota that are far superior to many other places.

On the reverse side, Minnesotans also felt their own myth of superiority melting away beginning in 2006...and culminating in November of 2007. They were a bit embarrassed...but moreso...the myth that they had grown up with had been proven at least partially wrong. They grew up thinking how superior the Big Ten was, and that there was no way that a place like North Dakota State could even touch them...even in a down year. Am I putting down Minnesota & it's people? Hardly, I love Minnesota too, and I have a lot of good friends there. It's a great place.

When my family in Mayville told me about some of the Mayville people that drove to Minneapolis to see the Bison play...I was in shock. Some of them weren't really even football fans. Some of them were staunch UND fans. Some of them were the least likely people to even drive to town to watch the Comets or the Patriots play. Some were, simply put, completely out of their element. But they didn't care. Something else was driving them...pardon the pun.

The impact of these two games is the real story of the transition. We could add a few incredible games in men's basketball, and maybe a few other sports that I don't follow as much...and certainly there were some other amazing games by the football team.

It's absolutely imperative that this new-found confidence and pride translate into crowd intensity and packed houses. We need to show it to the Gateway & Summit opponents. When the Gateway teams come to Fargo, the talk around the conference should be that Fargo is one hell of a tough venue, with the best home field advantage that they've ever seen. And they should fear playing the Bison, no matter where they play them. Actually, Bison Football is already there in many respects. There has to be some fear about the Bison in the Gateway.

Bison fans...it is time to begin our mental preparations. Spring football is almost here. We need to let the media (all of the outlets) know that they work in Bison country, with emails, calls, & letters. People like me need to fly into town once or twice. The road games have to become major field trips for Bison fans.

If I'm not successfull in moving this year...I'll keep trying. In the meantime, I have a new attitude about my home state. Thanks to all of the transition athletes in every sport. They've proven something valuable to me. Their names (all of them) belong somewhere in the Hall of Fame...as a unit. Somewhere in that hall should be a large plaque saying...'The Transition Athletes...Our Thanks.' Every athlete from every sport should be listed. They've brought us a new attitude...which is no small feat. They had no hopes of playoffs or national titles. They just did it.

[Jdubs21]

CA i couldnt agree with you more....i graduated college a year ago to be an electrician...i turned down $22/hr in Las Vegas and $19/hr in Loveland, CO...and honestly my sole reason for staying in the frigid cold here making $12/hr is one thing....BISON ATHLETICS!!!, someone could offer me all the money in the world, but nothing could ever put a price on when the lights go out in the dome and 19 thousand bison fans go crazy!!! :)...which is why u need to get your ass back here lol, bison pride is with all of us no matter where we are

[cbline]

Just one more thought to add to this eloquent piece. All of this wonderful progress comes from administrators and student-athletes who are still in transition. In its own way, NDSU has made some noise even while being in the infancy of D-I. It is hard to believe that the last 5 years could have gone much better in preparing all of the programs for their full move next year. I am proud to be an NDSU alum, a Team Maker, and a fan of NDSU athletics.

[CaBisonFan]

Just one more thought to add to this eloquent piece. All of this wonderful progress comes from administrators and student-athletes who are still in transition. In its own way, NDSU has made some noise even while being in the infancy of D-I. It is hard to believe that the last 5 years could have gone much better in preparing all of the programs for their full move next year. I am proud to be an NDSU alum, a Team Maker, and a fan of NDSU athletics.

Good addition. thanks

[CaBisonFan]

CA i couldnt agree with you more....i graduated college a year ago to be an electrician...i turned down $22/hr in Las Vegas and $19/hr in Loveland, CO...and honestly my sole reason for staying in the frigid cold here making $12/hr is one thing....BISON ATHLETICS!!!, someone could offer me all the money in the world, but nothing could ever put a price on when the lights go out in the dome and 19 thousand bison fans go crazy!!! :)...which is why u need to get your ass back here lol, bison pride is with all of us no matter where we are

You did a smart thing...and your $12.00 an hour will probably go further than the higher wages would have gone in Lost Wages or Colorado.

Besides, you'll save a lot on travel to Bison games. :nod:

[SDbison]

Back to your specific question.......why 20K to 30K in attendance for Bison at the Metrodome:
Even though two-thirds came from the Red River Valley area and points west in ND, the other third (7K to 10K) came from Alumni and fans in the Minneapolis-St Paul area, eastern Minnesota and western Wisconsin. Bison football is bigger than most of us realize. Many people just assume all the fans come from ND and Fargo-Moorhead. Yes, for each home game at the Fargodome the vast majority are locals, with only maybe 500 to 1000 coming from more than 50 miles away. This is slowly changing and it is likely one of the reasons attendance has grown to sell out levels. Too bad the Fargodome is stuck at 19,000 capacity because I really believe there could have been 20K plus sellouts this year and even 24K plus for big games in the next couple years.
Look at it this way. What would it take to get more Bison fans from Minneapolis to make the road trip to Fargo? Games with top ranked FCS teams? Some FCS playoff games? Yes, that would increase attendance a bit, but the biggest lure would be if NDSU played football at the FBS level. That is where I hope to one day see the Bison playing......at the highest level of college football. The tradition is there, the caliber of football, the local and statewide interest, and also great coaches and facilities. Now it is time to tap the regional interest. Just like Nebraska does in Lincoln. Thousands of people drive from up to 300 miles distant to see the Huskers play. The same would go for NDSU if they played on the biggest stage. Imagine if NDSU was in a good FBS conference today how many fans would attend home games. My guess is 30K to 35K. Of course a different stadium would need to be available. If you don't believe just look at how many Bison fans will attend the Iowa State games in upcoming years. Same for future games against Minnesota, Wisconsin or Iowa. The fan support at those away games will put many FBS teams to shame. Look what happened at the Metrodome!
To me, FCS is no bigger or better than the old DII, before most of the teams that were as good as NDSU left to become DI-AA. The Minnesota, Central Michigan and Ball State games have proven NDSU can compete even though in the middle of the transition to FCS. I believe that if NDSU took the step up to FBS in 4 or 5 years, the attendance, financial support and play on the field would all make the move in stride. If for some reason NDSU decides to stay FCS things will stagnate and interest will peak, level off and eventually fade. Just like with DII the majority of the country could care less about FCS football. Even though the playoffs are exciting for the teams involved, nobody else cares. Big time attendance for a team like NDSU is only possible if FBS is somehow involved. Go Bison!

[BisonNeil]

I believe that if NDSU took the step up to FBS in 4 or 5 years, the attendance, financial support and play on the field would all make the move in stride. If for some reason NDSU decides to stay FCS things will stagnate and interest will peak, level off and eventually fade. Just like with DII the majority of the country could care less about FCS football. Even though the playoffs are exciting for the teams involved, nobody else cares. Big time attendance for a team like NDSU is only possible if FBS is somehow involved. Go Bison!

I couldn't disagree with you more on this last point.

Interest in Bison football will NOT "eventually fade" if NDSU doesn't go to FBS in a few years, and to suggest that is ridiculously naive. Who cares if "nobody else cares" about playoffs as long as Bison football fans do? Interest in FCS football at Montana is not fading, its getting stronger. Same at UNI, Delaware, SIU, and many, many other schools.

What I don't get is why there are so many knotheads out there who think the end all for NDSU football is to be in a shitty FBS conference like the MAC, SunBelt, Mountain West or whatever else and playing an entire season for the chance to play in a shitty little worthless bowl like the Pointsettia, Motor City, or any of the other sundry junk bowls. What is the deal with that?

[NDSUstudent]

I couldn't disagree with you more on this last point.

Interest in Bison football will NOT "eventually fade" if NDSU doesn't go to FBS in a few years, and to suggest that is ridiculously naive. Who cares if "nobody else cares" about playoffs as long as Bison football fans do? Interest in FCS football at Montana is not fading, its getting stronger. Same at UNI, Delaware, SIU, and many, many other schools.

What I don't get is why there are so many knotheads out there who think the end all for NDSU football is to be in a shitty FBS conference like the MAC, SunBelt, Mountain West or whatever else and playing an entire season for the chance to play in a shitty little worthless bowl like the Pointsettia, Motor City, or any of the other sundry junk bowls. What is the deal with that?

The Mountain West is not a shitty conference, the MWC is a very solid football conference and a great basketball conference. I'll give you the Sun Belch and the MAC but I'd be all for NDSU moving to the WAC or MWC in a second.

[BisonNeil]

The Mountain West is not a shitty conference, the MWC is a very solid football conference and a great basketball conference. I'll give you the Sun Belch and the MAC but I'd be all for NDSU moving to the WAC or MWC in a second.

While the MWC has BYU, Utah, TCU and Air Force, they also have UNLV, New Mexico, San Diego State, Wyoming and Colorado State. So, I'll give you that there are some good teams in that conference, but what bowls did they play in? Ans: Poinsettia, New Mexico, Las Vegas, Texas and Armed Forces Bowl. Did you watch any of those bowls?

The WAC has Boise St and Hawaii, also Fresno St. But the rest of the conference is made up of Nevada, Louisiana Tech, San Jose St, Utah St, New Mexico St, and Idaho. Hold me back, I am so excited because this conference played in the New Mexico, Hawaii, Humanitarian and GMAC bowls. I repeat, did you watch any of those bowl games?

I stand by my assertion that being in the FCS, having the opportunity to win a national championship is way more interesting than watching any of the aforementioned shitty little bowl games.

[SDbison]

I couldn't disagree with you more on this last point.

Interest in Bison football will NOT "eventually fade" if NDSU doesn't go to FBS in a few years, and to suggest that is ridiculously naive. Who cares if "nobody else cares" about playoffs as long as Bison football fans do? Interest in FCS football at Montana is not fading, its getting stronger. Same at UNI, Delaware, SIU, and many, many other schools.

What I don't get is why there are so many knotheads out there who think the end all for NDSU football is to be in a shitty FBS conference like the MAC, SunBelt, Mountain West or whatever else and playing an entire season for the chance to play in a shitty little worthless bowl like the Pointsettia, Motor City, or any of the other sundry junk bowls. What is the deal with that?
Sorry bud I am not naive, nor am I a knothead. Thanks for the first shot of derogitory comments. First of all, my point was to say thousands of more fans would come out if NDSU were FBS. I really don't believe the current growth will continue if NDSU stays FCS. Montana is a different story. They don't have a huge population center like Minneapolis within a 3 hour drive away. The Montana Grizzlies are the only big time athletic event thing within hundreds of miles of Missoula, not to mention they will be one of the first to go FBS in the western half of the US......probably before NDSU. So think twice about your comments Neil before you make them. My post was stated in opinion form, not that you had to agree either.
As for FBS, who says NDSU has to get in a "shitty" conference. The Gateway (MVC) could possibly go FBS in a few years. Also, don't rule out some other move by a conference in our region (not that it is likely, it is still possible). Look at how surprised we all are about getting in the Summit and Gateway so quickly.
Maybe I don't think inside the box, or in some comfort zone like others that grew up in rural ND. I like to think what is next, how can growth be sustained, or what new things can be done to make Bison athletics even more popular or successful. The old DII was big because NDSU had come from a losing program in the old small college division to success in the late 1960's. Then in DII the success came and with no growth it eventually faded along with interest. Actually the DII of old is more like DI-AA (FCS) of today. So to really take NDSU to the next level it would require a move to FBS. I think the smash mouth variety of football that NDSU plays in a part of the country that is under-represented (the Dakotas) would be welcome and successful at the FBS level. Kind of like the Green Bay Packers that are a small market team in the NFL.
As for your comment about being in "shitty worthless" bowl games, I would say even some of the worst FBS bowl games get more press coverage, more exposure, more attendance and provide more income to the teams involved than any FCS title game. I have nothing against NDSU playing or winning the FCS playoffs. It just that I have a vision of something even bigger. Excuse me for dreaming.

[tjbison]

While the MWC has BYU, Utah, TCU and Air Force, they also have UNLV, New Mexico, San Diego State, Wyoming and Colorado State. So, I'll give you that there are some good teams in that conference, but what bowls did they play in? Ans: Poinsettia, New Mexico, Las Vegas, Texas and Armed Forces Bowl. Did you watch any of those bowls?

The WAC has Boise St and Hawaii, also Fresno St. But the rest of the conference is made up of Nevada, Louisiana Tech, San Jose St, Utah St, New Mexico St, and Idaho. Hold me back, I am so excited because this conference played in the New Mexico, Hawaii, Humanitarian and GMAC bowls. I repeat, did you watch any of those bowl games?

I stand by my assertion that being in the FCS, having the opportunity to win a national championship is way more interesting than watching any of the aforementioned shitty little bowl games.

I agree that winning a NC in FCS is more exciting too me than a crappy Bowl game, But SDbison is right, that there is WAY more exposure for the B in the title rather than the C. Do i like were NDSU football is hell yeah, but I also (just like any other bison fan) hope that if the opportunity comes for a jump NDSU looks at it and makes the best decision. After all FBS is the last stop and highest level of play, and I feel I'll be ready to watch the Bison with 85 schollys in 7-10 years, hopefully a member of the new FBS Missouri Valley Conference as a FULL member!:nod:

[SDbison]

While the MWC has BYU, Utah, TCU and Air Force, they also have UNLV, New Mexico, San Diego State, Wyoming and Colorado State. So, I'll give you that there are some good teams in that conference, but what bowls did they play in? Ans: Poinsettia, New Mexico, Las Vegas, Texas and Armed Forces Bowl. Did you watch any of those bowls?

The WAC has Boise St and Hawaii, also Fresno St. But the rest of the conference is made up of Nevada, Louisiana Tech, San Jose St, Utah St, New Mexico St, and Idaho. Hold me back, I am so excited because this conference played in the New Mexico, Hawaii, Humanitarian and GMAC bowls. I repeat, did you watch any of those bowl games?

I stand by my assertion that being in the FCS, having the opportunity to win a national championship is way more interesting than watching any of the aforementioned shitty little bowl games.
So you really believe FBS bowl games (even the less popular ones) played during the holidays and in mostly better time slots do not have more interest to the average college fan than the FCS national championship? The majority watching the FCS national championship are fans from the teams that are involved and a smattering of other FCS teams fans. Throw in a handful of college football junkies. FBS football, and the bowl system gets fans and non-fans of college football tuning in games during the holidays. It has become a big American pastime in the early winter months. Mention the FCS championship and most football fans don't even know it exists. Maybe to you, as a small minority, the FCS championship is king crap. In reality, you are thinking like someone from the Dakotas that knows nothing about what is going on outside of their little world.

[Bisonguy]

........... It just that I have a vision of something even bigger. Excuse me for dreaming.

I believe there's at least a few people currently at NDSU that share your vision. :nod:

It would be asinine for NDSU not to at least keep their eyes open on this. If the Gateway moves up, it would be a nearly perfect scenario for NDSU.

Now, the biggest question is, who's going to write the check?

[SlickVic]

I believe there's at least a few people currently at NDSU that share your vision. :nod:

It would be asinine for NDSU not to at least keep their eyes open on this. If the Gateway moves up, it would be a nearly perfect scenario for NDSU.

Now, the biggest question is, who's going to write the check?

SDs on record saying that when the move to FBS gets made he will right a check of "at lease a couple K"...im sure with a statement like that to go along with countless e-mails to mean gene the move to FBS is right around the corner...PLs pal pat simmers is prolly lickin his chops waiting SDs sizeable contribution ;)

[lakesbison]

SDBISON is right.

FBS is where NDSU needs to be.. PERIOD.

You guys are thinking way too small.. (a problem fargo seems to have in the past and hopefully has grown out of it)

BUT STILL. Minneapolis has a TON of NDSU alum, I know alot in chicago and you would not believe all the people in central minnesota and northern minnesot that are NDSU fans.

FBS with 28,000 fans at each game is where we should be. PERIOD.

[Gully]

I'm fine with FBS....just not for 8-10 years. They can start planning and fundraising but I don't think we want to actually move yet. Win a few titles first.

[SDbison]

SDs on record saying that when the move to FBS gets made he will right a check of "at lease a couple K"...im sure with a statement like that to go along with countless e-mails to mean gene the move to FBS is right around the corner...PLs pal pat simmers is prolly lickin his chops waiting SDs sizeable contribution ;)
That is correct Slick. I would be that fired up and would step up and commit that kind of money if NDSU football was FBS. Actually, I think at this point only a third of NDSU's fans would be anxious to go FBS, but it will grow. Also think more money and attendance is possible from bigger incomes of Minneapolis Alumni. They would also be inspired by an FBS NDSU that would regularly kick the Gophers ass. BTW, I am serious and would make the big donation(s) if and when NDSU goes FBS. Right now I am happy to be a base level teammaker that lives 250 miles from Fargo. I currently spend about $1500 to $2000 a year to travel and attend 5 to 6 games.

[SDbison]

SDBISON is right.

FBS is where NDSU needs to be.. PERIOD.

You guys are thinking way too small.. (a problem fargo seems to have in the past and hopefully has grown out of it)

BUT STILL. Minneapolis has a TON of NDSU alum, I know alot in chicago and you would not believe all the people in central minnesota and northern minnesot that are NDSU fans.

FBS with 28,000 fans at each game is where we should be. PERIOD.
Actually Lakes, Fargo does not typically think small........now Sioux Falls, they think small. The Fargodome, the Hub, NDSU, Urban Plains Center, etc, make Fargo a progressive growing community.......just need to get NDSU football on par with the rest of the community and other athletics at NDSU that are at the highest level.

[SDbison]

I'm fine with FBS....just not for 8-10 years. They can start planning and fundraising but I don't think we want to actually move yet. Win a few titles first.
8 to 10 years is too long. NDSU will make the playoffs often. Half that time, 4 to 5 years, seems adequate to me. Regardless, if the Gateway (MVC) goes FBS in the next few years I am sure NDSU would have no problem joining them.

[56BISON73]

Back to your specific question.......why 20K to 30K in attendance for Bison at the Metrodome:
Even though two-thirds came from the Red River Valley area and points west in ND, the other third (7K to 10K) came from Alumni and fans in the Minneapolis-St Paul area, eastern Minnesota and western Wisconsin. Bison football is bigger than most of us realize. Many people just assume all the fans come from ND and Fargo-Moorhead. Yes, for each home game at the Fargodome the vast majority are locals, with only maybe 500 to 1000 coming from more than 50 miles away. This is slowly changing and it is likely one of the reasons attendance has grown to sell out levels. Too bad the Fargodome is stuck at 19,000 capacity because I really believe there could have been 20K plus sellouts this year and even 24K plus for big games in the next couple years.
Look at it this way. What would it take to get more Bison fans from Minneapolis to make the road trip to Fargo? Games with top ranked FCS teams? Some FCS playoff games? Yes, that would increase attendance a bit, but the biggest lure would be if NDSU played football at the FBS level. That is where I hope to one day see the Bison playing......at the highest level of college football. The tradition is there, the caliber of football, the local and statewide interest, and also great coaches and facilities. Now it is time to tap the regional interest. Just like Nebraska does in Lincoln. Thousands of people drive from up to 300 miles distant to see the Huskers play. The same would go for NDSU if they played on the biggest stage. Imagine if NDSU was in a good FBS conference today how many fans would attend home games. My guess is 30K to 35K. Of course a different stadium would need to be available. If you don't believe just look at how many Bison fans will attend the Iowa State games in upcoming years. Same for future games against Minnesota, Wisconsin or Iowa. The fan support at those away games will put many FBS teams to shame. Look what happened at the Metrodome!
To me, FCS is no bigger or better than the old DII, before most of the teams that were as good as NDSU left to become DI-AA. The Minnesota, Central Michigan and Ball State games have proven NDSU can compete even though in the middle of the transition to FCS. I believe that if NDSU took the step up to FBS in 4 or 5 years, the attendance, financial support and play on the field would all make the move in stride. If for some reason NDSU decides to stay FCS things will stagnate and interest will peak, level off and eventually fade. Just like with DII the majority of the country could care less about FCS football. Even though the playoffs are exciting for the teams involved, nobody else cares. Big time attendance for a team like NDSU is only possible if FBS is somehow involved. Go Bison!

Good points all around. PL

[Mr. Burgundy]

I just want to win a title. BAD. After that, I am fine with the look. I agree with Gully....5-10 years...after they name us titletown, then I am fine with the move. In the meantime, lets look at the options. Then, 5 years after we do, UND will do the same.......ahhhh.

Sidenote, when I was watching the Bison beat ORU, I couldn't help but think...."What if this was to go to the Big Dance?" That will EXPLODE Fargo next year. If we get to the dance in our first year, we will be the talk of March. Who cares if we are a 14 seed that gets rolled up by a major conference team. You never know. Everyone would be talking about NDSU. Good times.

[BisonNeil]

8 to 10 years is too long. NDSU will make the playoffs often. Half that time, 4 to 5 years, seems adequate to me. Regardless, if the Gateway (MVC) goes FBS in the next few years I am sure NDSU would have no problem joining them.

Really, 4-5 yrs? So, you think NCAA is going to drop the 5 yr moratorium just for NDSU?

Obviously, I don't care about "average" football fan. Most of those fans only think BCS, NDSU will likely never be in a BCS conference if they did go FBS. The "average" college football fan doesn't care about the MAC, Sunbelt, MWC or WAC. And they don't watch the bowls I mentioned in my previous post.

I am an omnivore of college football, I watch all levels, but I don't watch the Poinsettia, GMAC, Texas, New Mexico or Las Vegas bowl. Those are ho hum, and I don't think the "average" football fan does either. The attendance at nearly all of those games is in the 28-30K range, just check their websites. FCS championship game is just under that. So, I don't think that level of college football, non-BCS FCS, is of much more interest to the "average" college football fan than is FCS.

[Bisonguy]

Really, 4-5 yrs? So, you think NCAA is going to drop the 5 yr moratorium just for NDSU?

Obviously, I don't care about "average" football fan. Most of those fans only think BCS, NDSU will likely never be in a BCS conference if they did go FBS. The "average" college football fan doesn't care about the MAC, Sunbelt, MWC or WAC. And they don't watch the bowls I mentioned in my previous post.

I am an omnivore of college football, I watch all levels, but I don't watch the Poinsettia, GMAC, Texas, New Mexico or Las Vegas bowl. Those are ho hum, and I don't think the "average" football fan does either. The attendance at nearly all of those games is in the 28-30K range, just check their websites. FCS championship game is just under that. So, I don't think that level of college football, non-BCS FCS, is of much more interest to the "average" college football fan than is FCS.

It's a four year moratorium, and it expires in August 2011.

[lakesbison]

where will you be August 1st, 2011??

[CaBisonFan]

where will you be August 1st, 2011??

I didn't intend for my article to lead to this discussion...but here we are. No problem...but I was just surprised.

Here are my thoughts on a potential move to the FBS.

1. Prove it on the ground in the Gateway & the playoffs for a few years. Build a reputation of success and strength. A NC would be nice, but not totally necessary.

2. If the Gateway somehow becomes a part of its 'cousin' conference, the Missouri Valley, and the MV moves up basically together...that would be a no-brainer.

3. If an obvious opening appeared in a current FBS conference...and...if there was great interest from that conference, it should be explored carefully.

I do believe that NDSU will be in the FBS someday, but it's a question of when. Not sure if I'm ready to swallow another stretch of pergatory again.

What does this moratorium mean? Could we simply move up in 2011 without a transition (pergatory)??

[Bisonguy]

I didn't intend for my article to lead to this discussion...but here we are. No problem...but I was just surprised.

Here are my thoughts on a potential move to the FBS.

1. Prove it on the ground in the Gateway & the playoffs for a few years. Build a reputation of success and strength. A NC would be nice, but not totally necessary.

2. If the Gateway somehow becomes a part of its 'cousin' conference, the Missouri Valley, and the MV moves up basically together...that would be a no-brainer.

3. If an obvious opening appeared in a current FBS conference...and...if there was great interest from that conference, it should be explored carefully.

I do believe that NDSU will be in the FBS someday, but it's a question of when. Not sure if I'm ready to swallow another stretch of pergatory again.

What does this moratorium mean? Could we simply move up in 2011 without a transition (pergatory)??

My opinion pretty much mirrors yours.

It's currently a two year transition (no FCS playoffs or bowl eligibility) for schools reclassifying from FCS to FBS. This may or may not change once the moratorium is lifted.

Last time after a DI moratorium, the transtion was increased to eight years, and 13 for basketball (that was for non-DI schools moving to DI). Luckily, they relaxed that before it applied to NDSU.

[roadwarrior]

The moratorium means no one can make the move right now. When they allow the moving up, the transition rules will apply.

[Bisonguy]

no pergutory.

Two years.

NCAA bylaws 20.4.2.1.1 and 20.4.3.1

[CaBisonFan]

My opinion pretty much mirrors yours.

It's currently a two year transition (no FCS playoffs or bowl eligibility) for schools reclassifying from FCS to FBS. This may or may not change once the moratorium is lifted.

Last time after a DI moratorium, the transtion was increased to eight years, and 13 for basketball (that was for non-DI schools moving to DI). Luckily, they relaxed that before it applied to NDSU.

Geez...those are a lot of years! Ugleeeee

The transition for NDSU, an extremely well-established program, should have been only 2 or 3 years in football...like from the FCS to the FBS.

Thanks for the info. :howdy:

[CaBisonFan]

Back to your specific question.......why 20K to 30K in attendance for Bison at the Metrodome:
Even though two-thirds came from the Red River Valley area and points west in ND, the other third (7K to 10K) came from Alumni and fans in the Minneapolis-St Paul area, eastern Minnesota and western Wisconsin. Bison football is bigger than most of us realize. Many people just assume all the fans come from ND and Fargo-Moorhead. Yes, for each home game at the Fargodome the vast majority are locals, with only maybe 500 to 1000 coming from more than 50 miles away. This is slowly changing and it is likely one of the reasons attendance has grown to sell out levels. Too bad the Fargodome is stuck at 19,000 capacity because I really believe there could have been 20K plus sellouts this year and even 24K plus for big games in the next couple years.
Look at it this way. What would it take to get more Bison fans from Minneapolis to make the road trip to Fargo? Games with top ranked FCS teams? Some FCS playoff games? Yes, that would increase attendance a bit, but the biggest lure would be if NDSU played football at the FBS level. That is where I hope to one day see the Bison playing......at the highest level of college football. The tradition is there, the caliber of football, the local and statewide interest, and also great coaches and facilities. Now it is time to tap the regional interest. Just like Nebraska does in Lincoln. Thousands of people drive from up to 300 miles distant to see the Huskers play. The same would go for NDSU if they played on the biggest stage. Imagine if NDSU was in a good FBS conference today how many fans would attend home games. My guess is 30K to 35K. Of course a different stadium would need to be available. If you don't believe just look at how many Bison fans will attend the Iowa State games in upcoming years. Same for future games against Minnesota, Wisconsin or Iowa. The fan support at those away games will put many FBS teams to shame. Look what happened at the Metrodome!
To me, FCS is no bigger or better than the old DII, before most of the teams that were as good as NDSU left to become DI-AA. The Minnesota, Central Michigan and Ball State games have proven NDSU can compete even though in the middle of the transition to FCS. I believe that if NDSU took the step up to FBS in 4 or 5 years, the attendance, financial support and play on the field would all make the move in stride. If for some reason NDSU decides to stay FCS things will stagnate and interest will peak, level off and eventually fade. Just like with DII the majority of the country could care less about FCS football. Even though the playoffs are exciting for the teams involved, nobody else cares. Big time attendance for a team like NDSU is only possible if FBS is somehow involved. Go Bison!


You've made some really good additions to the discussion, and I agree with pretty much everything that you've written.

In terms of my attitude about when the move should be made, I have one foot partially in your camp and the other in a more conservative camp.

A while back I wrote an article about starting to plan for a bigger football stadium. I went overboard with the plans, and there was quite a bit of criticism...but that was OK. The critics of my plan had some very good points. The discussion led to a good dose of reality for me...something which I have trouble with sometimes.

I agree about the size of the stadium and that people would come, especially with an FBS schedule. I also agree that we could have drawn even more people in the past couple of years with a larger stadium.

Here's a marker, or guideline, for me. If schools like St. Cloud & Mankato begin plans to move up, we need to respond quickly. One of the early signs of the demise of DII was when they moved up and came into the NCC. Why do I say this? From the NDSU perspective, it became just a little more difficult to lure Twin City athletes up to Fargo. We lost a few athletes from time to time simply because of the proximity of the two schools that I've named. The slide of DII began as strong programs began to leave and smaller schools moved in, as I'm sure you're well aware. Over-all, I think that you're correct about the quality of the FCS vs. the old DII. There might be a few teams that would be an exception. The NCAA was really foolish about the whole process, and since that period they've been back-pedaling trying to make up for it. They seem dysfunctional, at the expense of schools like NDSU. We didn't need a 5-year transition period. And the inconsistencies...like Southern Florida starting their football program about eleven years ago from scratch, and being in the running for an FCS title last year. What's fair about that? Nothing

This is really 'out there,' but if a conference like the Big 12 had an opening (not sure why that would happen) we should aggressively apply. Perhaps the WAC would be similar, but to me they're a mountain/west coast conference...and I'm not sure that they'd want us...or if we'd want them in the long run. Maybe we would. Don't know.

Anyway...your points are well taken. Like some people write about me often...I like your 'passion.' But you also put a lot of thought into what you write.

Rock On !

[99Bison]

Actually Lakes, Fargo does not typically think small........now Sioux Falls, they think small. The Fargodome, the Hub, NDSU, Urban Plains Center, etc, make Fargo a progressive growing community.......just need to get NDSU football on par with the rest of the community and other athletics at NDSU that are at the highest level.

I have to generally agree with lakes on this one... HOWEVER, Fargo is starting progress and faster than SF as you say. The examples you give are a start. Also as everyone here is aware the point of this thread to begin with directly justified the start of how these things happen. A leader, NDSU in this case proved something internally and somewhat externally... In the long run it effects of the last two octobers will be more important for the community and area than it will be for a single football team.

That is of course as long as the opportunity in front of it/us is taken. Thus leading into the eventual FBS discussion.

[sambini]

Much has been written about how the Bison peaked too early in Minneapolis last fall. I have been one of the people that has written about it.

These thoughts have come to mind:

I still consider myself to be a North Dakotan. It is where I grew up on a wheat farm east of Mayville. I'm related to half of the community. It's where my ancestors settled after leaving Norway in the 19th century.

As much pride as I have always had in being a North Dakotan, there has also been a sense of inferiority. As a kid, I thought that everything important happened somewhere else. You know, movies were made in Hollywood, really big games were at places like Nebraska & USC, professional sports happened somewhere else, famous musicians came from somewhere else...etc, etc.

When Gene Taylor accepted the 2006 invitation to play the Gophers I really feared a slaughter. I had always thought that Big Ten schools, and schools from other big conferences, were so far superior that the Bison couldn't touch them, even in a down year. I wanted to believe different, but deep down inside, I didn't believe.

The 2006 game was a break from that attitude. It changed my thinking. I suppose one could say that I've chosen to live in California because I wanted to be closer to the action...and that's partially true. It wasn't really so much about the weather. The California myth of fun in the sun, hot cars, the movie industry, and everything else was a lure even when I was a kid. UCLA basketball mesmerized me. John Wooden seemed like a god. And to this day, I still feel that way about him.

Living away from North Dakota has given me a new perspective on a lot of things. From where I'm at, the Minnesota games were much more than football games. They were an awakening for people who shared my outlook.

The 2006 game was the launching pad to the 2007 game. There was no way that the 2007 game wasn't going to be the focus of the season. Everything else leading up to it was preparation for the big one. It was the World Series, the Stanley Cup, and the Super Bowl all wrapped up into one for many Bison fans...and probably the team. Anything after that was going to be a letdown...kind of like having exhibition games after the season instead of before it. It felt strange. Even the idea of a conference championship somehow didn't match the Minnesota experience.

Why did 30,000 people (or somewhere in that ballpark) show up in Minneapolis?

They came because the Bison had broken through the myth. It wasn't just about football, even though it was a hell of a game. It was about North Dakotans feeling a breath of extremely fresh air, knowing finally, that there's nothing inferior about our home state. In fact, there are things in North Dakota that are far superior to many other places.

On the reverse side, Minnesotans also felt their own myth of superiority melting away beginning in 2006...and culminating in November of 2007. They were a bit embarrassed...but moreso...the myth that they had grown up with had been proven at least partially wrong. They grew up thinking how superior the Big Ten was, and that there was no way that a place like North Dakota State could even touch them...even in a down year. Am I putting down Minnesota & it's people? Hardly, I love Minnesota too, and I have a lot of good friends there. It's a great place.

When my family in Mayville told me about some of the Mayville people that drove to Minneapolis to see the Bison play...I was in shock. Some of them weren't really even football fans. Some of them were staunch UND fans. Some of them were the least likely people to even drive to town to watch the Comets or the Patriots play. Some were, simply put, completely out of their element. But they didn't care. Something else was driving them...pardon the pun.

The impact of these two games is the real story of the transition. We could add a few incredible games in men's basketball, and maybe a few other sports that I don't follow as much...and certainly there were some other amazing games by the football team.

It's absolutely imperative that this new-found confidence and pride translate into crowd intensity and packed houses. We need to show it to the Gateway & Summit opponents. When the Gateway teams come to Fargo, the talk around the conference should be that Fargo is one hell of a tough venue, with the best home field advantage that they've ever seen. And they should fear playing the Bison, no matter where they play them. Actually, Bison Football is already there in many respects. There has to be some fear about the Bison in the Gateway.

Bison fans...it is time to begin our mental preparations. Spring football is almost here. We need to let the media (all of the outlets) know that they work in Bison country, with emails, calls, & letters. People like me need to fly into town once or twice. The road games have to become major field trips for Bison fans.

If I'm not successfull in moving this year...I'll keep trying. In the meantime, I have a new attitude about my home state. Thanks to all of the transition athletes in every sport. They've proven something valuable to me. Their names (all of them) belong somewhere in the Hall of Fame...as a unit. Somewhere in that hall should be a large plaque saying...'The Transition Athletes...Our Thanks.' Every athlete from every sport should be listed. They've brought us a new attitude...which is no small feat. They had no hopes of playoffs or national titles. They just did it. CA BISON great post. Another reason was it was a great place for friends nd alumni to meet. We had friends fly in and some even took the train from western ND. You can drink a lot of beers from Williston to Minneapolis. It was one big reunion. And Sheeri Schmidt and her staff did a great job getting the message out to alumni and fans. IT WAS A AWESOME++++

[NDSUstudent]

While the MWC has BYU, Utah, TCU and Air Force, they also have UNLV, New Mexico, San Diego State, Wyoming and Colorado State. So, I'll give you that there are some good teams in that conference, but what bowls did they play in? Ans: Poinsettia, New Mexico, Las Vegas, Texas and Armed Forces Bowl. Did you watch any of those bowls?

The WAC has Boise St and Hawaii, also Fresno St. But the rest of the conference is made up of Nevada, Louisiana Tech, San Jose St, Utah St, New Mexico St, and Idaho. Hold me back, I am so excited because this conference played in the New Mexico, Hawaii, Humanitarian and GMAC bowls. I repeat, did you watch any of those bowl games?

I stand by my assertion that being in the FCS, having the opportunity to win a national championship is way more interesting than watching any of the aforementioned shitty little bowl games.

I watched some of those shitty little bowl games, I wouldn't have any problem with playing a little team called UCLA on ESPN in Vegas. I and tens of millions of others also watched Hawaii play a little team called Georgia in the Sugar Bowl. Me and the same tens of millions also watched Boise State shock the football world in a little bowl called the Fiesta against Oklahoma.

Like I said, the Sun Belt and MAC are not worth getting excited over but the MWC and WAC is where it is at and I haven't even got into what entry into either one of those conferences does for basketball.

[CaBisonFan]

CA BISON great post. Another reason was it was a great place for friends nd alumni to meet. We had friends fly in and some even took the train from western ND. You can drink a lot of beers from Williston to Minneapolis. It was one big reunion. And Sheeri Schmidt and her staff did a great job getting the message out to alumni and fans. IT WAS A AWESOME++++

Thanks Sambini....good addition.

Hope you're doing well.

[CaBisonFan]

I watched some of those shitty little bowl games, I wouldn't have any problem with playing a little team called UCLA on ESPN in Vegas. I and tens of millions of others also watched Hawaii play a little team called Georgia in the Sugar Bowl. Me and the same tens of millions also watched Boise State shock the football world in a little bowl called the Fiesta against Oklahoma.

Like I said, the Sun Belt and MAC are not worth getting excited over but the MWC and WAC is where it is at and I haven't even got into what entry into either one of those conferences does for basketball.

I'm a bowl game junky in December, so I see your point on this. The mindset has to be different. Bison fans that have been around a while are used to having the chance to watch the Bison in playoff games & to contend for a title.

But I think that in the past couple of years we've found other reasons to get excited. It's 'who' we play, in terms of fan excitement. A bowl game against a major program 'is' a big deal, no matter what the name of the game is. The Boise State game is the ultimate example, but playing any major program in a sunny location would have great appeal here...as well as a national television appeal to guys like you & I.

It's really an apples & oranges thing. Bison fans of old are used to apples. Oranges might be an acquired taste.

I see this happening someday. I just can't predict when. I think that there is a fundamental fear that we would become buried in obscurity by the FBS & the bowl system. It's a legitimate fear, and one that I share to a certain extent. In this scenario, we 'would indeed' be competing with Minnesota and other large programs for athletes. It would be interesting. I've always thought of North Dakota State as a potential Nebraska of the north country. It's a gem, but people that have enjoyed it for decades are afraid of gambling with it.

You've made some good points. Thanks

[56BISON73]

I'm a bowl game junky in December, so I see your point on this. The mindset has to be different. Bison fans that have been around a while are used to having the chance to watch the Bison in playoff games & to contend for a title.

But I think that in the past couple of years we've found other reasons to get excited. It's 'who' we play, in terms of fan excitement. A bowl game against a major program 'is' a big deal, no matter what the name of the game is. The Boise State game is the ultimate example, but playing any major program in a sunny location would have great appeal here...as well as a national television appeal to guys like you & I.

It's really an apples & oranges thing. Bison fans of old are used to apples. Oranges might be an acquired taste.

I see this happening someday. I just can't predict when. I think that there is a fundamental fear that we would become buried in obscurity by the FBS & the bowl system. It's a legitimate fear, and one that I share to a certain extent. In this scenario, we 'would indeed' be competing with Minnesota and other large programs for athletes. It would be interesting. I've always thought of North Dakota State as a potential Nebraska of the north country. It's a gem, but people that have enjoyed it for decades are afraid of gambling with it.

You've made some good points. Thanks

It also has to do with who is in the bowl game and their record. 4th and 5th place teams with 7-5 or 6-6 records dont really get me excited. Usually those games dont draw well either. PL

[CaBisonFan]

It also has to do with who is in the bowl game and their record. 4th and 5th place teams with 7-5 or 6-6 records dont really get me excited. Usually those games dont draw well either. PL

Yeah...I'm not excited about the 6-6 'bowl-eligible' concept either. The bar is too low. So many programs seem to have the mindset that becoming bowl-eligible is the goal.

I've been to the Holiday Bowl several times down here in SoCal. The crowd size depends on who shows up, of course, but Qualcomm isn't a pretty sight when it's half empty.

[56BISON73]

I'm a bowl game junky in December, so I see your point on this. The mindset has to be different. Bison fans that have been around a while are used to having the chance to watch the Bison in playoff games & to contend for a title.

But I think that in the past couple of years we've found other reasons to get excited. It's 'who' we play, in terms of fan excitement. A bowl game against a major program 'is' a big deal, no matter what the name of the game is. The Boise State game is the ultimate example, but playing any major program in a sunny location would have great appeal here...as well as a national television appeal to guys like you & I.

It's really an apples & oranges thing. Bison fans of old are used to apples. Oranges might be an acquired taste.

I see this happening someday. I just can't predict when. I think that there is a fundamental fear that we would become buried in obscurity by the FBS & the bowl system. It's a legitimate fear, and one that I share to a certain extent. In this scenario, we 'would indeed' be competing with Minnesota and other large programs for athletes. It would be interesting. I've always thought of North Dakota State as a potential Nebraska of the north country. It's a gem, but people that have enjoyed it for decades are afraid of gambling with it.

You've made some good points. Thanks

As in any business you have to ask yourself---How Big do you want to be????? Look at what the other successfull teams in the FCS draw on a regular basis. What does Appy draw???? UNI????? and a few others.
You are going to hit a certain level in the FCS just as SD posted. The local community will only support the Bison to a certain degree. You have to have fans TRAVEL TO FARGO. Last year I dint see that happening. Hotel rooms werent hard to come by and people werent clamoring for or selling tickets outside the stadium. Whats it going to take to change that??? PL

[99Bison]

As in any business you have to ask yourself---How Big do you want to be????? Look at what the other successfull teams in the FCS draw on a regular basis. What does Appy draw???? UNI????? and a few others.
You are going to hit a certain level in the FCS just as SD posted. The local community will only support the Bison to a certain degree. You have to have fans TRAVEL TO FARGO. Last year I dint see that happening. Hotel rooms werent hard to come by and people werent clamoring for or selling tickets outside the stadium. Whats it going to take to change that??? PL

There are already a lot of fans that travel to Fargo for the games, probably half the tailgating lot is travelers. Not sure why you think not. You can't clamor for tickets until it's sold out before game days consistently and there are good opponents, which should be coming near this year. As for hotels, there are so many hotels in Fargo and more being built all the time, that it's not going to happen unless you get a 100k seat stadium.

[tjbison]

There are already a lot of fans that travel to Fargo for the games, probably half the tailgating lot is travelers. Not sure why you think not. You can't clamor for tickets until it's sold out before game days consistently and there are good opponents, which should be coming near this year. As for hotels, there are so many hotels in Fargo and more being built all the time, that it's not going to happen unless you get a 100k seat stadium.



There will be 4 new hotels up and running by the Fall, in South Fargo, and none of them are small the Kelly Inn (open now), Expressway suites (open Now), Hilton Garden Inn, and then another by Gander MT can't remember the name. So I agree it shouldn't be hard to get a room anywhere with a Max. Capacity of just over 19,000

[CaBisonFan]

There will be 4 new hotels up and running by the Fall, in South Fargo, and none of them are small the Kelly Inn (open now), Expressway suites (open Now), Hilton Garden Inn, and then another by Gander MT can't remember the name. So I agree it shouldn't be hard to get a room anywhere with a Max. Capacity of just over 19,000

These are good points guys...so they lead me to this:

The city appears ready to support an FBS program, but the program has to be ready also. I 'do' believe that if we got into an FBS program that the demand for tickets in Fargo would probably be doubled. Let's say that BYU came to town. It would be regional news. The Twin City Bison fans would want to come. Yet...I'm not sure about a WAC membership being good in the long run.

By some miracle, if an opening came in the Big 12 or the Big 11, then I'd say...ah...guys...we need to look at this seriously. But it wouldn't be calming for me, because we've seen how tough it is to break through the upper tier of those conferences.

I'd love the Bison to be in the FBS...but this could be a situation where we need to be careful what we wish for. I really don't know. These are just my Sunday morning thoughts. They could change two hours from now.

Have a good day guys.

(I really didn't see where my article would go when I wrote it. This surprised me. No problem though. I thought it would die a quick death.)

[SDbison]

Great discussion here. As I thought about the topic title I realized my interpretation was that the range stated is referring to the near 20K that were there in 2006 and close to 30K in 2007. That got me considering all the things that might have contributed to the huge turnout. So, here are some points to ponder:

1. Did more Bison fans show up in 2007 because of how close the Bison played the Gophers in 2006? Was it all the media attention between 2006 and 2007 that stimulated interest and got some closet Bison fans out for a big time game? Would fewer Bison fans have showed up in 2007 if the
Gophers had beat the Bison by a 20+ point margin in 2006?

2. How much of a factor was the David vs. Goliath analogy? The small college, DII then just turned FCS, football program from Fargo taking on the mighty Gophers of the FBS Big Ten in Minneapolis. Did more and more people have interest in this game because they thought they might witness a slaughter and realize NDSU's future was limited? More likely many came to the game because of the strength of NDSU's program and no matter how little chance was given for victory they wanted to see a good battle.

3. Of course, proximity to North Dakota, Fargo-Moorhead, and a large number of NDSU alumni and fans in the Minneapolis-St Paul area helped bring large numbers. Equally, if not more important, having an oversized venue that Gopher fans could not fill also made a huge Bison contingent possible. Everyone had to join the flow of Bison fans in cars RV's and buses as they made their trek to the big game.

4. Was it the Super Bowl theory that brought out all the fans? The fact that NDSU could not play in the FCS post season and this was their Super Bowl. Look at all the attention from the 2006 game and then to have NDSU on ESPN SportsCenter with lengthy video clips documenting the victory, Roehls accomplishments, the mighty Thor, the hammer and 30K Bison fans in attendance. None of us could have scripted it better. The way things turned out it garnered more national attention than
winning the FCS championship.

5. Would as many, if not more, Bison fans show up had a game been scheduled for 2008? Would interest fade now that the near impossible was accomplished. Was it novelty that brought Bison fans out to see if the trend of a dozen or so losses (many lopsided) could somehow be reversed in one game? 2006 gave hope since NDSU nearly won and 2007 was going to be NDSU's time to shine based on what happened in 2006. We all know the result now, so do some fans figure the Gophers will kick butt next time so why bother going when the teams meet again. I think the victory increased interest, not in NDSU as an FCS team, but rather could this team from Fargo be competitive in FBS.

6. Is there a "rival feel" to this game. Two teams in close proximity that are both DI. NDSU the over-achiever and the Gophers the under-achievers. NDSU out in the middle of farm country, a small college in a sparsely populated region with few trees versus Minnesota located in the metropolis, a huge university in a state that has 10,000 lakes and so many trees. Maybe more of a factor on attendance then most would admit. If there were a game in 2008 I have a feeling more Gopher fans would be in attendance.

7. Finally, now that 20K or 30K of Bison fans in attendance will no longer be possible (since the Gophers will be in a smaller venue after next year) what is the next milestone for Bison fans? Can the Bison consistently get 5000 fans (or more if possible) to FBS games in the Midwest? Can the flow of fans that made their way into the Metrodome be turned north to attend Bison games in the Fargodome? With a limit of 19K in the Fargodome and every game sellouts a reality, how will NDSU capture all the interest and make room for more fans? Are there plans for adding some limited view seating in the corners? Are proposals being discussed for a future stadium, or will growth be throttled by the limitations of the dome? Is interest in Bison football bigger than we know or can imagine?

[Hammersmith]

I'm bored today, so I'll philosophize a bit on the FBS-move question. When I think of moving up a (sub)division, whether it be DII -> DI or FCS -> FBS, I see two basic scenarios: you force your way in(a.k.a. no conference), or an opportunity presents itself and you slide gracefully in. If you try to force your way in, you'd better have all your ducks in a row and they better be packing some heat if you want to succeed. Things can be a little looser if you slide in.

In the case of our DII -> DI move, we forced our way in with only the thinest of safety nets. Because of our maturity as a historic DII powerhouse, we could get away with that. The same cannot be said for an FCS -> FBS move at this time. We don't have the overall athletic facilities to play with the high- and mid-majors, we don't have the budgets, we don't have the history, and we don't have the rabid non-football fanbase. We're improving in all those areas, but I'd don't think we're there yet. I think trying to force an FCS -> FBS move would be a bad idea until the above areas, and others, are addressed.

On the other hand, if an opportunity were to come along that would allow NDSU to slide in to the FBS, that would be a whole different story. I'd hesitate to consider a MAC opening, but if the WAC, MWC or MVC were to come a calling, I'd think it would be close to a no-brainer.

[stevdock]

Why the heck do you guys want to move up? Is money and the opportunity to play big schools the only reason? I thought a main reason to play at NDSU would be to compete for a national championship. If we move up, that would never be us. No matter what anybody says about Hawaii and Boise the last few years, they still had no shot at a championship. I honestly have no idea why any team that is not in a BCS conference would even want to stay in FBS if they were only in it for the right reasons which would be to win every game on the schedule and then ultimately win a NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP. Think about the recruits that we have gotten from other states. How many of them would come to North Dakota, the middle of nowhere, without a chance to win a championship? I'm guessing not as many as we are getting now. Also remember that we have gotten 4 in state kids the last two years. That's just not going to cut it if NDSU would ever move up. With very few in-state D-1 players, I'm kinda figuring we would turn into a Wyoming who can't recruit nationally and can't beat many FBS teams. Who the heck would want that?

I was all for moving to FCS, for the increase in scholarships, competition, etc. I would be completely against moving to FBS, just because the chance at a national championship would be gone. I am also an Alum of NDSU, and would love the chance for my kids to go to NDSU. If we move up, eventually the money to pay for most of it will come from tuition. That would mean if my kids in 15 years were going to college, NDSU is probably going to cost way too much for the same education that they can get from other area schools.

[NDSUstudent]

Why the heck do you guys want to move up? Is money and the opportunity to play big schools the only reason? I thought a main reason to play at NDSU would be to compete for a national championship. If we move up, that would never be us. No matter what anybody says about Hawaii and Boise the last few years, they still had no shot at a championship. I honestly have no idea why any team that is not in a BCS conference would even want to stay in FBS if they were only in it for the right reasons which would be to win every game on the schedule and then ultimately win a NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP. Think about the recruits that we have gotten from other states. How many of them would come to North Dakota, the middle of nowhere, without a chance to win a championship? I'm guessing not as many as we are getting now. Also remember that we have gotten 4 in state kids the last two years. That's just not going to cut it if NDSU would ever move up. With very few in-state D-1 players, I'm kinda figuring we would turn into a Wyoming who can't recruit nationally and can't beat many FBS teams. Who the heck would want that?

I was all for moving to FCS, for the increase in scholarships, competition, etc. I would be completely against moving to FBS, just because the chance at a national championship would be gone. I am also an Alum of NDSU, and would love the chance for my kids to go to NDSU. If we move up, eventually the money to pay for most of it will come from tuition. That would mean if my kids in 15 years were going to college, NDSU is probably going to cost way too much for the same education that they can get from other area schools.

Please, there are a ton of kids out in Minnesota, Wisconsin, and Illinois that can be had by a FBS NDSU. Its amazing what Bohl has done with 63 scholarships and it blows my mind thinking about what he could do with 85.

That said, going FBS will cause some strain on NDSU. To go FBS we are talking about adding 5-10 million more to our athletic budget and that is no small number. With that in mind, for NDSU to go FBS it would require a great situation. One that would raise our school up a level and in my mind a move to the MWC or WAC would do just that. Both of those conferences are made up of what could be called peer schools and both of the conferences get a good deal of coverage. The WAC and MWC have great bowl tie ins and also have great basketball. Both the WAC and MWC have gotten multiple bids, either one would probably make NDSU basketball into a big deal.

Ultimately, I love winning national titles as much as the next guy but if moving up to the FBS can take the entire school and athletic department up another level it is a move that must be done.

[tjbison]

Why the heck do you guys want to move up? Is money and the opportunity to play big schools the only reason? I thought a main reason to play at NDSU would be to compete for a national championship. If we move up, that would never be us. No matter what anybody says about Hawaii and Boise the last few years, they still had no shot at a championship. I honestly have no idea why any team that is not in a BCS conference would even want to stay in FBS if they were only in it for the right reasons which would be to win every game on the schedule and then ultimately win a NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP. Think about the recruits that we have gotten from other states. How many of them would come to North Dakota, the middle of nowhere, without a chance to win a championship? I'm guessing not as many as we are getting now. Also remember that we have gotten 4 in state kids the last two years. That's just not going to cut it if NDSU would ever move up. With very few in-state D-1 players, I'm kinda figuring we would turn into a Wyoming who can't recruit nationally and can't beat many FBS teams. Who the heck would want that?

I was all for moving to FCS, for the increase in scholarships, competition, etc. I would be completely against moving to FBS, just because the chance at a national championship would be gone. I am also an Alum of NDSU, and would love the chance for my kids to go to NDSU. If we move up, eventually the money to pay for most of it will come from tuition. That would mean if my kids in 15 years were going to college, NDSU is probably going to cost way too much for the same education that they can get from other area schools.

Can't recruit Nationally???

Here is a link to the Cowboys 2008 recruits that signed, 12 different states from Florida to California, only 1 instate Wyoming kid in the class. if you look deeper their 2007 class had several kids from Minneapolis suburbs 2 of which were 3 star rivals recruits, I think they are getting talent.

http://wyomingathletics.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/020608aaa.html

[56BISON73]

Why the heck do you guys want to move up? Is money and the opportunity to play big schools the only reason? I thought a main reason to play at NDSU would be to compete for a national championship. If we move up, that would never be us. No matter what anybody says about Hawaii and Boise the last few years, they still had no shot at a championship. I honestly have no idea why any team that is not in a BCS conference would even want to stay in FBS if they were only in it for the right reasons which would be to win every game on the schedule and then ultimately win a NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP. Think about the recruits that we have gotten from other states. How many of them would come to North Dakota, the middle of nowhere, without a chance to win a championship? I'm guessing not as many as we are getting now. Also remember that we have gotten 4 in state kids the last two years. That's just not going to cut it if NDSU would ever move up. With very few in-state D-1 players, I'm kinda figuring we would turn into a Wyoming who can't recruit nationally and can't beat many FBS teams. Who the heck would want that?

I was all for moving to FCS, for the increase in scholarships, competition, etc. I would be completely against moving to FBS, just because the chance at a national championship would be gone. I am also an Alum of NDSU, and would love the chance for my kids to go to NDSU. If we move up, eventually the money to pay for most of it will come from tuition. That would mean if my kids in 15 years were going to college, NDSU is probably going to cost way too much for the same education that they can get from other area schools.

The main reason to play at NDSU is because it is a hell of a WINNING program. NDSU will give you every opportunity and the tools to succeed if you take advantage of them.
I think the National Championship thing gets thrown around way two much as its only a championship with in a certain amount of schools. Kids want to know how hey match up against the big boys. You want to play against the best teams you can.
As far as you paying for the move up through tuition I would do some research and find out where your tuition dollars really go.
But NDSU is at ANOTHER cross roads especially if they show the same success that they have shown the past two years. PL

[02Bison]

Why the heck do you guys want to move up? Is money and the opportunity to play big schools the only reason? I thought a main reason to play at NDSU would be to compete for a national championship. If we move up, that would never be us. No matter what anybody says about Hawaii and Boise the last few years, they still had no shot at a championship. I honestly have no idea why any team that is not in a BCS conference would even want to stay in FBS if they were only in it for the right reasons which would be to win every game on the schedule and then ultimately win a NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP. Think about the recruits that we have gotten from other states. How many of them would come to North Dakota, the middle of nowhere, without a chance to win a championship? I'm guessing not as many as we are getting now. Also remember that we have gotten 4 in state kids the last two years. That's just not going to cut it if NDSU would ever move up. With very few in-state D-1 players, I'm kinda figuring we would turn into a Wyoming who can't recruit nationally and can't beat many FBS teams. Who the heck would want that?

I was all for moving to FCS, for the increase in scholarships, competition, etc. I would be completely against moving to FBS, just because the chance at a national championship would be gone. I am also an Alum of NDSU, and would love the chance for my kids to go to NDSU. If we move up, eventually the money to pay for most of it will come from tuition. That would mean if my kids in 15 years were going to college, NDSU is probably going to cost way too much for the same education that they can get from other area schools.


++++++++++ There is no true champion in FBS....just a whole lot of BS and a ton of Bowl games, the majority of which no one have heard of or really cares about. FCS is the right fit for NDSU. Its the highest level of competition in which a true champion is crowned.

[lakesbison]

its about "IMAGE" nationally as well.

lets ALL face facts, when I travel the country, I'd say 5% AT MOST, pay attention or care or EVEN KNOW about FCS.

now, Appy State helped the casual fan understand the FCS, but cmon people, NOT MANY CARE ABOUT DIVISION 1 AA... and yes, that connotion will always be there and assumption that FCS is Div 1AA, and therefore the country doesn't care.

NOW, FBS is what everyone cares about, its the prestige, its the marketing, the ability to say "NDSU is playing THE HIGHEST COMPETITION POSSIBLE!"

WAC or MAC.. keep saying it.

[bisonhusker]

If NDSU went "BIGTIME D1" and then ran the table....say we are 10-0 looking at a bowl, we would get crushed for "Not playing anyone," or a "Soft schedule," ....etc. I would love to DOMINATE in 1AA for a while. Lets win some National titles and see how we like this new level prior to jumping the gun and trying to go bigtime.

Also, like it has been mentioned....it is expensive. I am not asking you to "Open the checkbooks" but alot of people are already stepping up with quite a bit of cash to make this jump.....and I would hate to ask the same group to double the cash flow. It adds up.

Join team makers! Start now. $100 a year can get you in. Very worthy cause.

[SlickVic]

++++++++++ There is no true champion in FBS....just a whole lot of BS

+++++++++++++++++ i agree 100 percent...ohio state was the better team

[westriver bison]

Why the heck do you guys want to move up? Is money and the opportunity to play big schools the only reason? I thought a main reason to play at NDSU would be to compete for a national championship. If we move up, that would never be us. No matter what anybody says about Hawaii and Boise the last few years, they still had no shot at a championship. I honestly have no idea why any team that is not in a BCS conference would even want to stay in FBS if they were only in it for the right reasons which would be to win every game on the schedule and then ultimately win a NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP. Think about the recruits that we have gotten from other states. How many of them would come to North Dakota, the middle of nowhere, without a chance to win a championship? I'm guessing not as many as we are getting now. Also remember that we have gotten 4 in state kids the last two years. That's just not going to cut it if NDSU would ever move up. With very few in-state D-1 players, I'm kinda figuring we would turn into a Wyoming who can't recruit nationally and can't beat many FBS teams. Who the heck would want that?

I was all for moving to FCS, for the increase in scholarships, competition, etc. I would be completely against moving to FBS, just because the chance at a national championship would be gone. I am also an Alum of NDSU, and would love the chance for my kids to go to NDSU. If we move up, eventually the money to pay for most of it will come from tuition. That would mean if my kids in 15 years were going to college, NDSU is probably going to cost way too much for the same education that they can get from other area schools.

I agree, if we can't get into a BCS conference there is no need to move up. Big 10 or Big 12 only imo.

[THEsocalledfan]

If NDSU went "BIGTIME D1" and then ran the table....say we are 10-0 looking at a bowl, we would get crushed for "Not playing anyone," or a "Soft schedule," ....etc. I would love to DOMINATE in 1AA for a while. Lets win some National titles and see how we like this new level prior to jumping the gun and trying to go bigtime.

Also, like it has been mentioned....it is expensive. I am not asking you to "Open the checkbooks" but alot of people are already stepping up with quite a bit of cash to make this jump.....and I would hate to ask the same group to double the cash flow. It adds up.

Join team makers! Start now. $100 a year can get you in. Very worthy cause.


I am in this camp. I certainly don't rule out the possibility of FBS, but let's get our feet underneath us first. Reminder, as great as we've been, we haven't been able to even go up against many of the big boys of FCS due to arcane NCAA rules.

[Bison"FANatic"]

Excellent post CaBison.

We will find out in the future how well we will travel to local FBS games. Was Minnesota just a "Perfect Storm"? A lot of items came together for us to have the interest and support at the dome. It may seem like a small item but I know a ton of families that went that probably wouldn't of had there been school the Friday before. They made a weekend vacation out of it. Who knows the complete answer as to why we traveled so well but it sure was awesome. Something I will never forget.

As for the move to FBS. We need to prove we can sustain where we are at in the FCS in both money and in competition. The move can be a very slippery slope if we were to start losing money and then not being able to support the programs the way they need to be supported and then not putting the quality on the field. If the perfect situation comes around we would have to look at it long and hard but we would need everything in place for the next step up. It would be a pretty big gamble to go without a conference.

[stevdock]

The other thing that you need to realize is NDSU has never sold out hunting season opener. Yes it's only 1 week, but if you want to make that jump, you should be selling out all games. I believe this last year was the highest number of tickets sold for hunting opener. It was around 16,000 I believe. My guess though is that there was only about 12,000 at the game. Also if Team Makers keeps increasing prices, people will have no choice but to eventually drop out. I have never been part of team makers and refuse to pay that much money to watch 5 or 6 football games. If I have to watch a playoff game on TV so be it. I'll be disappointed, but I can't afford to join Team Makers. This is also coming from someone who has not missed a home game since 1994.

[roadwarrior]

I have never been part of team makers and refuse to pay that much money to watch 5 or 6 football games. If I have to watch a playoff game on TV so be it. I'll be disappointed, but I can't afford to join Team Makers. This is also coming from someone who has not missed a home game since 1994.

It is definitely your decision of whether or not you can afford to contribute to Teammakers. We have to be thankful to those that can contribute to the Bison program. The contributions to Teammakers are to support the entire athletic department. The money raised is used to pay for the scholarships that the athletes receive in all sports. You are not just paying to watch a football game, you are helping these student athletes receive a college education.

[DORMIE]

Road, he's actually getting by real cheap to have watched some good football the past 14 years. $10 a game is pretty cheap. Our goal this year is $1,900,000.00 for scholarships for student athletes. From $100 to a full scholarship of $11,000.00 it all helps.

[56BISON73]

Road, he's actually getting by real cheap to have watched some good football the past 14 years. $10 a game is pretty cheap. Our goal this year is $1,900,000.00 for scholarships for student athletes. From $100 to a full scholarship of $11,000.00 it all helps.

125.00 for SEASON tickets is CHEAP. 100.00 gets you two GAME tickets to a big time school. So people had better watch out for what they wish for if they cant afford it. The money has to come from somewhere-someone. PL

[tjbison]

The other thing that you need to realize is NDSU has never sold out hunting season opener. Yes it's only 1 week, but if you want to make that jump, you should be selling out all games. I believe this last year was the highest number of tickets sold for hunting opener. It was around 16,000 I believe. My guess though is that there was only about 12,000 at the game. Also if Team Makers keeps increasing prices, people will have no choice but to eventually drop out. I have never been part of team makers and refuse to pay that much money to watch 5 or 6 football games. If I have to watch a playoff game on TV so be it. I'll be disappointed, but I can't afford to join Team Makers. This is also coming from someone who has not missed a home game since 1994.

If we made it into the WAC 7-10 years(just using this as an example) and on DEER opener Boise State was in town for a conference game I'll bet it would be packed!! Bigger names=bigger crowds, and I think you'll see that by 09 when people realize how good the Gateway actually is!!:nod:

[56BISON73]

The other thing that you need to realize is NDSU has never sold out hunting season opener. Yes it's only 1 week, but if you want to make that jump, you should be selling out all games. I believe this last year was the highest number of tickets sold for hunting opener. It was around 16,000 I believe. My guess though is that there was only about 12,000 at the game. Also if Team Makers keeps increasing prices, people will have no choice but to eventually drop out. I have never been part of team makers and refuse to pay that much money to watch 5 or 6 football games. If I have to watch a playoff game on TV so be it. I'll be disappointed, but I can't afford to join Team Makers. This is also coming from someone who has not missed a home game since 1994.

If its sold out it doesnt make any difference how many butts are in the seats. My goodness. Deer hunting opener is not going to make or break any supposed move up because when that time comes there should be a demand for those tickets. Go to ebay and look at tickets to games being sold. Many people from out of town pick which games they want to go to then sell the rest on ebay. As a matter of fact I sell the Iowa tickets Im not going to use and sell them at a price that PAYS for all my season tickets.
Teammakers priority seating prices will find what the market can bear for PREMIUM seating. Its unfortunate but where is the money going to come from to pay the bills when people expect excellence. Teammaker dues start out at 100.00 but they will take smaller donations.PL

[Jdubs21]

for as much fun and pride i have at the games and in NDSU, i'd pay $1000 for season tickets, those kids deserve every penny they get from this institution

[Herd Mentality]

Well, for all of you that chastise those of us that want to hunt...no worries this year. The only game that even falls during the season is the SDSU game (and it falls on the third weekend of the ND season) - I predict a deer season sell out.

[Bison"FANatic"]

Western Illinois falls on the pheasant opener so I expect we will lose a few that weekend. The good thing about pheasants lately is you only have to drive about 20 minutes out of Fargo if you want to get your birds. The birds are only part of the equation though the main loss is the comradarie and spending the time with friends that the hunt provides.