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TheBisonator
11-21-2007, 05:09 AM
Half from Dome surplus

Half from NDSU and naming rights

Anyone got a spare $15,700,000 they're willing to donate and become a god amongst the NDSU community??

Story at: http://www.in-forum.com/articles/index.cfm?id=184091&section=news&freebie_check&CFID=68492161&CFTOKEN=97465010&jsessionid=88309583a3eb67413127

TheBisonator
11-21-2007, 05:18 AM
Just for the record, I REALLY hope this thing will be expandable to at least 8,000. They didn't even talk about the low capacity issue in the article, which has me worried.

westriver bison
11-21-2007, 08:34 AM
I don't know what the arena at Tennesse Tech holds but it looked very empty last night. 6000 may be ok for size. Always good to have room to expand though.

Gully
11-21-2007, 11:28 AM
It sounds like there will be a marketing report presented in February....hopefully this thing doesn't drag out much longer than that. It mentions needing 36 months for design and construction. Does that include any of the time they're been using for preliminary design already? If not, it's going to be a long wait.

I'm not an E&A guy but I know we have some on here...does 36 months sound right for a building like this? I wonder why they didn't say 3 years....that sounds worse.

roadwarrior
11-21-2007, 11:31 AM
From what I have heard, the ability to expand the number of seats later is designed into the building, without major changes to the structure.

tcbison
11-21-2007, 01:17 PM
From what I have heard, the ability to expand the number of seats later is designed into the building, without major changes to the structure.

Thanks for the info Road!

Does anyone know what happened to Greenie? He used to post on Bisonville and seemed to have a lot of inside information.

BigBison
11-21-2007, 02:17 PM
Hey if they can make it expandable to 8,000 then thats great. 6,000 is good for us now but in 10 years(or much sooner) we will need it bigger. Think Fargodome here, that was built in 93 or 94, I think we all wish they would of designed that so it could be expanded to 22,000 or more.

BisBison
11-22-2007, 02:58 AM
I don't know what the arena at Tennesse Tech holds but it looked very empty last night. 6000 may be ok for size. Always good to have room to expand though.

Per their website their arena holds just over 10,100. They reported 1,200 in attendance. It looked more like 120 to me on the webcast.

Greenie
12-18-2007, 04:10 PM
- Revised dome addition plans expected to be finished late Dec/early Jan
- Market assessment to be finished in late Feb/early March (will give tangible data showing this area needs this type of facility)
- Presentation to Dome Authority in March for a vote
- Presentation to City Commission in April for a vote

All the funding (corporate/NDSU) will need to be in place before the votes will go through. If the city is only on the hook for $15 million, I think it will pass. That is a small investment for an additional quality multi-purpose facility.

imabison
12-18-2007, 05:18 PM
- Revised dome addition plans expected to be finished late Dec/early Jan
- Market assessment to be finished in late Feb/early March (will give tangible data showing this area needs this type of facility)
- Presentation to Dome Authority in March for a vote
- Presentation to City Commission in April for a vote

All the funding (corporate/NDSU) will need to be in place before the votes will go through. If the city is only on the hook for $15 million, I think it will pass. That is a small investment for an additional quality multi-purpose facility.
Don't you mean that corporte/NDSU funding agreements need to be in place before the vote?

One would thinkt that the corporate naming rights could be $ 15 Million, or $ 500,000 a year for 30 years.

WYOBISONMAN
12-18-2007, 05:38 PM
After watching the CSU/NDSU game on TV this weekend, I have to say a decent arena would look much better when we are on TV. The Bison Sports Arena looks terrible.

NDSUstudent
12-18-2007, 06:04 PM
After watching the CSU/NDSU game on TV this weekend, I have to say a decent arena would look much better when we are on TV. The Bison Sports Arena looks terrible.

CBSsportsline said it best by calling it a high school like arena. I can't even imagine how hard it is for Saul and Amy to recruit in a dump like that when our three main recruiting rivals(SDSU, UNI, and UWGB) have fantastic facilities to show recruits.

bisonpride2k
12-18-2007, 11:54 PM
After watching the CSU/NDSU game on TV this weekend, I have to say a decent arena would look much better when we are on TV. The Bison Sports Arena looks terrible.

It doesnt just look terrible... it is terrible. :paperbag: If we had a decent facility we probably add another 500 a game at least. Who wants to walk around in a cold garbage can that is dark, has terrible speakers and no sense of creating an atmosphere because of how wide open it is. Not to mention two doors for entry, two concession stands, two bathrooms and single doors to enter the building instead of a double door heated entry (seriously this is north dakota in the winter, the expense for heating the palce could have paid for it 15 years ago). You literally could not move in the ticket area on the south end last weekend. It was a complete joke.

Bison bison
12-19-2007, 08:06 PM
I think a new arena with continued success of our programs would result in an extra 1000 bis* average.




* butts-in-seats

sambini
12-20-2007, 11:41 AM
This just proves it needs to be built++++

99Bison
12-22-2007, 11:15 PM
I think a new arena with continued success of our programs would result in an extra 1000 bis* average.




* butts-in-seats

Atleast... then if you have a good product on the court too...++

56BISON73
12-22-2007, 11:57 PM
After watching the CSU/NDSU game on TV this weekend, I have to say a decent arena would look much better when we are on TV. The Bison Sports Arena looks terrible.

In 1969 the BSA was being built and they took me on a tour of it during my recruiting visit. At that time they were using the BSA as a recruiting tool. How times have changed.:nod: PL

sambini
12-26-2007, 12:45 AM
It was in its time the PLACE. But we need a new place and hopefully this dome project will get going.

KTF
12-26-2007, 03:19 PM
It sounds like there will be a marketing report presented in February....hopefully this thing doesn't drag out much longer than that. It mentions needing 36 months for design and construction. Does that include any of the time they're been using for preliminary design already? If not, it's going to be a long wait.

I'm not an E&A guy but I know we have some on here...does 36 months sound right for a building like this? I wonder why they didn't say 3 years....that sounds worse.

In my profession, I fund waste water and water projects for communities. One would think that funding a waste water/water project would be simple but there is so much behind the scenes stuff that it can drag out. The average project takes 3-6 years to complete. Granted this is the time frame from initial application to loan closing.

One of the things that I wonder about is that if something takes a long time to manufacture. An example "the flooring takes 12 months to produce" or "the seating will be built once the arena is erected".

Since the project involves a governmental entity, there is a bit of a longer process since the typical design/build method is not common (in MN anyway). I would suspect that a design, bid, build method would be used to ensure that the best set of specifications can be issued for the best bid. Nothing worse then getting change ordered to death and turning an arena cost from $31.5 million to $32-$40 million overnight.

36 months seems long but it maybe quick compared to similiar projects. If it takes an industry average 18 months to build a water tower, 36 months for a 8,000 seat arena seems quick in my mind.

Flintstone
12-26-2007, 04:10 PM
Typically, the constrction schedule for a project that size in Fargo would be set at 18-24 months which I believe is reasonable.

99Bison
12-27-2007, 02:23 AM
Typically, the constrction schedule for a project that size in Fargo would be set at 18-24 months which I believe is reasonable.

Which I think I heard was the timetable 18 from start.

sambini
12-29-2007, 05:56 AM
The Scheels Center?

SUBISON247
12-31-2007, 05:24 AM
The Scheels Center?

Sheels All-Sports Center

bisonmike2
12-31-2007, 03:39 PM
Sheels All-Sports Center

Scheels All-Sports Center sounds good. They've been a great supporter of NDSU athletics. Some other possibilities that I'll throw out there.

Microsoft Center or Microsoft Arena - largest microsoft center outside of redmon, Wa is in Fargo. What a great way to showcase their presence in Fargo.

Alien Arena - growing company located just yards away from the new arena. Good way to get their name out there.

Phoenix International Sports Complex - see above

Magnum Logistics Center - local and growing. Owners kids went to NDSU.

Chubs or The Bison Turf Sports complex - I can dream.

imabison
12-31-2007, 10:21 PM
Scheels All-Sports Center sounds good. They've been a great supporter of NDSU athletics. Some other possibilities that I'll throw out there.

Microsoft Center or Microsoft Arena - largest microsoft center outside of redmon, Wa is in Fargo. What a great way to showcase their presence in Fargo.

Alien Arena - growing company located just yards away from the new arena. Good way to get their name out there.

Phoenix International Sports Complex - see above

Magnum Logistics Center - local and growing. Owners kids went to NDSU.

Chubs or The Bison Turf Sports complex - I can dream.
I can dream also. I win the lottery, finance it, and the name is..


Chosen by a vote of the NDSU students, nickname included.

Perhaps the Badlands would be a good nickname.

Blue
12-31-2007, 10:24 PM
Alien Arena - growing company located just yards away from the new arena. Good way to get their name out there.

What better way to entice people then to tell them to come to Alien Arena:D.

"We don't feel the need to probe you, but we do encourage you to spend your money here.":nod:

56BISON73
12-31-2007, 10:34 PM
Sports Bar Memorial Stadium PL

bisonmike2
01-02-2008, 05:04 PM
What better way to entice people then to tell them to come to Alien Arena:D.

"We don't feel the need to probe you, but we do encourage you to spend your money here.":nod:

It could be a painful place for visiting teams to play?

/I got nothing.

HerdBot
01-07-2008, 06:07 AM
What better way to entice people then to tell them to come to Alien Arena:D.

"We don't feel the need to probe you, but we do encourage you to spend your money here.":nod:

How about "Come visit the little green men at Alien Arena." Is that brilliant or completely idiotic? :) I kind of like it.

UTH
01-07-2008, 01:06 PM
How about "Come visit the little green men at Alien Arena." Is that brilliant or completely idiotic? :) I kind of like it.

Brilliantly idiotic. It's clever but people would only roll their eyes and groan, methinks.

Ferd
01-07-2008, 02:06 PM
I still can't understand why Wells Fargo didn't go for naming rights to the Wells-Fargodome. Go Figure...

Bison"FANatic"
01-07-2008, 03:35 PM
My wife and I were talking after the game on Saturday. What a cramped, terrible place to play college ball we have. I had flashbacks of sitting on highschool bleachers. We need a new arena with decent seating. I bet we would average at least 1000 more people with just better seats alone.

I know I know it is the same old rant but where is the little boombox up in the rafters that they play thunderstruck on. I was looking but I could not find it.:D :D :D

GET THE FARGODOME ADDITION DONE!!!!!!:nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod:

roadwarrior
01-07-2008, 03:50 PM
Wells Fargo already has their name on arenas in Des Moines and Tempe.

SlickVic
01-07-2008, 04:20 PM
was wells fargo even a bank when the dome was being built?

aces1180
01-07-2008, 04:23 PM
was wells fargo even a bank when the dome was being built?

Good point...It was called Norwest in our area in '92.

bisonmike2
01-07-2008, 04:54 PM
was wells fargo even a bank when the dome was being built?

It was a bank but it was in the West coast. Wells Fargo won't drop money on naming rights in Fargo. They're second fiddle to State Bank and they know that putting their name on any buidling in FM won't change that. If you go down to Sioux Falls their name is on everything. Of course they have a huge call center there, Wells Fargo Financial Credit Cards and Wells Fargo student loan center. Don't be surprised if Sioux Falls ever builds a new arena and Wells Fargo puts their name on that.

aces1180
01-07-2008, 04:55 PM
It was a bank but it was in the West coast. Wells Fargo won't drop money on naming rights in Fargo. They're second fiddle to State Bank and they know that putting their name on any buidling in FM won't change that. If you go down to Sioux Falls their name is on everything. Of course they have a huge call center there, Wells Fargo Financial Credit Cards and Wells Fargo student loan center. Don't be surprised if Sioux Falls ever builds a new arena and Wells Fargo puts their name on that.

Citibank also has a payment center based in Sioux Falls.

roadwarrior
01-07-2008, 05:55 PM
US Bank has a large credit card operation in Fargo.

Tatanka
01-08-2008, 01:19 PM
The price of tea from China is $11.00.
http://www.chineseherbcenter.com/Merchant2/graphics/products/oolongteagold.jpg

Ferd
01-08-2008, 01:31 PM
Wells Fargo already has their name on arenas in Des Moines and Tempe.

Thank you Road.
:)

Gully
01-08-2008, 05:47 PM
Wells Fargo already has their name on arenas in Des Moines and Tempe.

That's great....then they're obviously open to sponsoring more than one stadium. Sign them up.

Bison bison
01-08-2008, 06:28 PM
I say we charge them half price 'cause Fargo is already in the name...........

bisonmike2
01-08-2008, 07:06 PM
That's great....then they're obviously open to sponsoring more than one stadium. Sign them up.

Maybe there is already enough name recognition there that they don't have to buy the naming rights. Some people might already think of Wells Fargo when they hear the Fargodome. Why would they want to pay money for something they already have. We should try to sell the rights to State Bank or US bank. State bank field @ the Fargodome. Or do something like the Bears did with their sponsor. NDSU Football presented by US Bank. In fact doesn't US bank already hold the rights for NDSU students?

BisonCountry
01-08-2008, 08:31 PM
Naming rights was discussed on here a while ago when they we were just talking about remodeling the BSA. I can remeber "Scheel's Center" being mentioned or my personal favorite..."Chub's Pub Palace". Teddy might have to increase the prices though!

Bison"FANatic"
01-08-2008, 08:34 PM
Naming rights was discussed on here a while ago when they we were just talking about remodeling the BSA. I can remeber "Scheel's Center" being mentioned or my personal favorite..."Chub's Pub Palace". Teddy might have to increase the prices though!

$20 a beer but your supporting bison B-ball:D

bisonmike2
01-08-2008, 09:04 PM
$20 a beer but your supporting bison B-ball:D

I don't think anyone would want higher beer prices at Chubs. Cheap beer is what makes it great. Maybe they could sponsor bathrooms or something. Chub's Pub's Pissers @ the Scheels Center.

TheBisonator
01-11-2008, 01:40 AM
Anyone on the inside have any new news about the arena?? Anyone with alumni connections who happen to know how much has been raised, or anyone who might know more about the design??

56BISON73
01-11-2008, 01:55 AM
Anyone on the inside have any new news about the arena?? Anyone with alumni connections who happen to know how much has been raised, or anyone who might know more about the design??

Im shocked??? I was going to ask you that since you said you had connections in high places.:D PL

sambini
01-11-2008, 04:14 AM
Ask Erv? Or Mayor Walaker at breakfast saturdays at Petro .

roadwarrior
01-14-2008, 11:41 PM
If you are on Teammakers email list, you should have received a link to an online survey about the new basketball arena. The questions focused on what type and cost of seating you were willing to buy.

For instance, they plan on having 80 courtside seats (I am assuming without the view blockages I have today in the front row). There will be a premium for those seats!

Gully
01-15-2008, 10:44 AM
If you are on Teammakers email list, you should have received a link to an online survey about the new basketball arena. The questions focused on what type and cost of seating you were willing to buy.

For instance, they plan on having 80 courtside seats (I am assuming without the view blockages I have today in the front row). There will be a premium for those seats!

I filled out the survey as well, I think the club seats sound pretty cool. It sounds like they're considering private suites, smaller 6 person "private areas", courtside club seats, hardwood club seats right on the floor, and upper level club seats, all with access to a private club.

Build it.....they will come.

sambini
01-15-2008, 12:37 PM
I filled out the survey as well, I think the club seats sound pretty cool. It sounds like they're considering private suites, smaller 6 person "private areas", courtside club seats, hardwood club seats right on the floor, and upper level club seats, all with access to a private club.

Build it.....they will come.
I filled mine out lets get this done.+++++++++++

Bison bison
01-15-2008, 03:41 PM
the survey was very well done.

plan on keeping 4 seats, maybe adding 4 more. hopefully I don't have to spend too much.....

Bisonguy
01-15-2008, 09:17 PM
If anyone has yet to fill out the survey, please leave a comment that you want better lighting in the new arena. :nod:

aces1180
01-15-2008, 09:19 PM
If anyone has yet to fill out the survey, please leave a comment that you want better lighting in the new arena. :nod:

You are so shameless on your lighting plugs...It makes me laugh everytime...But it is needed!

Bisonguy
01-15-2008, 09:40 PM
You are so shameless on your lighting plugs...It makes me laugh everytime...But it is needed!

LOL- yeah, it's not just my selfish desires, it would help NDSU's media (photo and video) look so much better. The BSA on FSN looks like a highschool game. :smh:

For reference to see what better lighting can do for photos (and the Metrodome was better, but not much better than the FFD):
http://www.dehoff.smugmug.com/photos/210769332-M.jpg

http://dehoff.smugmug.com/photos/196372819-M.jpg

Notice how at the Metrodome the photo has more "pop", while the FFD photo looks flat??

Tatanka
01-15-2008, 10:53 PM
Actually, all I'm noticing is how nobody seems to be able to tackle TEH DIESEL!!!








Oh, and that the lighting is much better in the first picture... :)

BisBison
01-15-2008, 11:05 PM
LOL- yeah, it's not just my selfish desires, it would help NDSU's media (photo and video) look so much better. The BSA on FSN looks like a highschool game. :smh:

For reference to see what better lighting can do for photos (and the Metrodome was better, but not much better than the FFD):
http://www.dehoff.smugmug.com/photos/210769332-M.jpg

http://dehoff.smugmug.com/photos/196372819-M.jpg

Notice how at the Metrodome the photo has more "pop", while the FFD photo looks flat??

And that's another BISON FIRST DOWN!!! Sorry I just had to do that.

HerdBot
01-26-2008, 09:45 PM
- Revised dome addition plans expected to be finished late Dec/early Jan
- Market assessment to be finished in late Feb/early March (will give tangible data showing this area needs this type of facility)
- Presentation to Dome Authority in March for a vote
- Presentation to City Commission in April for a vote

All the funding (corporate/NDSU) will need to be in place before the votes will go through. If the city is only on the hook for $15 million, I think it will pass. That is a small investment for an additional quality multi-purpose facility.

Let's start rallying support for it now. Anyone know who we need to contact on the dome authority and city commissionfor a vote? We need to call, write letters, and email them that we support it. Why? Because it seems like ONLY THE ANTI ARENA folks come out to rip on it and the supportes stay quiet. Plus they automatically ASSUME it's a new tax and it's not. It's already been approved and it's for upgrades. Plus NDSU is paying 15 million out of pocket plus naming rights. It's a steal for the city!

Lets start a list of reasons why we need this stadium... I'll start!

- We're losing a ton of concerts to Grand Forks. The Ralph and Alerus Center are competitive and the Fargodome needs to remain competitive.

- The dome is great for giant concerts such as Bon Jovi, The Rolling Stones, AC/DC, Garth Brooks, Kiss, Ozzy, but it's way too big for smaller concerts.

- The Bison Sports Arena is arguably the worst facility I have ever seen. It was so cold you could almost see your breath last week! Not good for a Division 1 school representing the state of North Dakota.

roadwarrior
01-26-2008, 10:03 PM
I agree with you Gabe. Once the market study is complete, this will be in the news and I think that the Dome Authority and City Commission will move quite fast on this project. Showing your support to the members of the city commission will be the most useful I think. When this hits the news next month, I will be sending an email showing my support of the project. At that time we will know more of the specifics including costs and timeline.

HerdBot
01-29-2008, 01:07 AM
Let's start rallying support for it now. Anyone know who we need to contact on the dome authority and city commissionfor a vote? We need to call, write letters, and email them that we support it. Why? Because it seems like ONLY THE ANTI ARENA folks come out to rip on it and the supportes stay quiet. Plus they automatically ASSUME it's a new tax and it's not. It's already been approved and it's for upgrades. Plus NDSU is paying 15 million out of pocket plus naming rights. It's a steal for the city!

Lets start a list of reasons why we need this stadium... I'll start!

- We're losing a ton of concerts to Grand Forks. The Ralph and Alerus Center are competitive and the Fargodome needs to remain competitive.

- The dome is great for giant concerts such as Bon Jovi, The Rolling Stones, AC/DC, Garth Brooks, Kiss, Ozzy, but it's way too big for smaller concerts.

- The Bison Sports Arena is arguably the worst facility I have ever seen. It was so cold you could almost see your breath last week! Not good for a Division 1 school representing the state of North Dakota.

Here is the contact info for the Fargo City Commission and a link to the Fargodome authority.

FARGO CITY COMMISSION WEBSITE
http://www.ci.fargo.nd.us/CityInfo/CityCommission/

Contact Us
Fargo City Commission
200 North Third Street
Fargo, ND 58102

Phone: (701) 241-1310
Fax: (701) 476-4136

E-mail: commission@cityoffargo.com

Executive Assistant to the City Commission:
Sharon Odegaard
e-mail: sodegaard@cityoffargo.com

Business Hours: Monday—Friday, 7:45 a.m.—4:30 p.m. (except legal holidays)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


FARGO DOME AUTHORITY
http://www.fargodome.com/fargodomeAuthority.cfm


I can't find any email addresses so here is the contact us page http://www.fargodome.com/contactUs.cfm

tjbison
02-24-2008, 06:24 PM
When was the impact study and Final layout for this project supposed to be done? anybody know anything new!!

99Bison
02-24-2008, 06:29 PM
Nothing new yet... Next couple months (March/April) should have info.

Hammersmith
02-24-2008, 06:42 PM
When was the impact study and Final layout for this project supposed to be done? anybody know anything new!!

The impact study was supposed to be completed in Feburary or March, so we should see that soon. The final design needs the info from the completed study(how many suites, types of seating, etc.), so that should take a while longer.

DIBISON
02-24-2008, 06:45 PM
Erv Inninger was on the Hammer show last week and stated that this Tuesday the Dome Authority will be meeting on the new arena. Erv said the the Dome Authority and City Commission could both vote on the issue in March. Hammer plans to have Erv on again after the Tuesday meeting,

roadwarrior
02-24-2008, 06:45 PM
I have heard that the marketing study is complete.

Hammersmith
02-24-2008, 06:53 PM
That sounds great. Looks like I might actually have to listen to my namesake. :D

tjbison
02-24-2008, 08:39 PM
Thanks for the info, will this arena be voted on by the Fargo Residence or just the city commission and FDA? I don't think it stands a chance if the people vote for it:mad:

roadwarrior
02-24-2008, 09:38 PM
It only needs a vote by the Dome Authority and the City Commission. There are no new taxes needed for the addition.

sambini
02-24-2008, 11:13 PM
Thanks Road for the info. I sure hope this gets through+++

tjbison
02-25-2008, 02:26 AM
It only needs a vote by the Dome Authority and the City Commission. There are no new taxes needed for the addition.

Ah! there is a chance then!:nod: Thanks Road

BisBison
02-26-2008, 06:00 PM
Anybody hear any news about this today? Erv is at a meeting on the Dome addition today with the Dome Authority. Hoping for some positive news from there today.

roadwarrior
02-26-2008, 07:07 PM
The meeting is late this afternoon.

HerdBot
02-27-2008, 05:29 AM
Anybody hear any news about this today? Erv is at a meeting on the Dome addition today with the Dome Authority. Hoping for some positive news from there today.

There is an article in the In-Forum today. http://www.in-forum.com/articles/index.cfm?id=193074&section=news It says that it will be looked at later in March because they need more data.

Now is a good time to voice support to the city commission. It seems that only the anti folks come out and the minority becomes the majority by default.

TheBisonator
02-27-2008, 05:35 AM
There is an article in the In-Forum today. http://www.in-forum.com/articles/index.cfm?id=193074&section=news It says that it will be looked at later in March because they need more data.

Now is a good time to voice support to the city commission. It seems that only the anti folks come out and the minority becomes the majority by default.

There's another long-winded LTTE by councilman Mike Williams in The Forum today. Basically his position is that the extra money shouldn't be re-invested. He also said there are many schools in the Summit League that have worse arenas than NDSU. Really, Mike?? I can think of maybe two that are worse: IUPUI and Western Illinois. I would say Centenary's Gold Dome and Oakland's O-Rena are a little better. Southern Utah's Centrum is a little better still. IPFW, ORU, UMKC, SDSU are all miles ahead.

Probably the only arena in the Summit that's in worse shape is Western Illinois'.

Bison Dan
02-27-2008, 12:34 PM
There's another long-winded LTTE by councilman Mike Williams in The Forum today. Basically his position is that the extra money shouldn't be re-invested. He also said there are many schools in the Summit League that have worse arenas than NDSU. Really, Mike?? I can think of maybe two that are worse: IUPUI and Western Illinois. I would say Centenary's Gold Dome and Oakland's O-Rena are a little better. Southern Utah's Centrum is a little better still. IPFW, ORU, UMKC, SDSU are all miles ahead.

Probably the only arena in the Summit that's in worse shape is Western Illinois'.

I love how the ex bartender acts like an expert on financial matters.

HerdBot
02-27-2008, 01:59 PM
There's another long-winded LTTE by councilman Mike Williams in The Forum today. Basically his position is that the extra money shouldn't be re-invested. He also said there are many schools in the Summit League that have worse arenas than NDSU. Really, Mike?? I can think of maybe two that are worse: IUPUI and Western Illinois. I would say Centenary's Gold Dome and Oakland's O-Rena are a little better. Southern Utah's Centrum is a little better still. IPFW, ORU, UMKC, SDSU are all miles ahead.

Probably the only arena in the Summit that's in worse shape is Western Illinois'.

He's the most anti stadium guy on the planet. He actually has a blog that's like a hundred pages long. He's obsessed. He actually claims to have data that claims bringing a Superbowl to a community is a bad deal financially.

Now the shoe is on the other foot since the tax payers alreday approved this years ago and we wants to use the money for other things that they didn't vote on. Basically if it's something he wants to use personally he's for it. Frickin' hypocrite.

aces1180
02-27-2008, 02:25 PM
He's the most anti stadium guy on the planet. He actually has a blog that's like a hundred pages long. He's obsessed. He actually claims to have data that claims bringing a Superbowl to a community is a bad deal financially.

Now the shoe is on the other foot since the tax payers alreday approved this years ago and we wants to use the money for other things that they didn't vote on. Basically if it's something he wants to use personally he's for it. Frickin' hypocrite.

I agree with you...I think Fargo residents (and NDSU fans) should vote him out of his position the next time he runs for re-election...Its up to the people to choose their leaders (and IMO, he is not doing a good job).

HerdBot
02-27-2008, 09:02 PM
I agree with you...I think Fargo residents (and NDSU fans) should vote him out of his position the next time he runs for re-election...Its up to the people to choose their leaders (and IMO, he is not doing a good job).

Yeah if we can rally 7000 fans to South Dakota in cold weather than we can rally a few thousand to vote this guy out. Let's do it. Let's test the power of this message board.

Bisonguy
02-27-2008, 09:05 PM
Mike Williams looks like the Joker. He acts like him too.

tjbison
02-27-2008, 11:59 PM
If it shows a positive conclusion why wouldn't he vote yes? What other projects or upgrades would they use the money for?

Mr. Burgundy
02-28-2008, 12:38 AM
McFeely, since you read this all day, can you tell Mike Williams to get a life! That could be the easiest article of the year for you! Thank me later.

Thanks, Pro Fargo

99Bison
02-28-2008, 04:10 AM
Sorry, but that writting is a totally mis-guided thought process, wow. Apparently doesn't want the community to move forward. Maybe would rather becoming a dwindling prairie town.

extremerouge
02-28-2008, 05:32 AM
McFeely, since you read this all day, can you tell Mike Williams to get a life! That could be the easiest article of the year for you! Thank me later.

Thanks, Pro Fargo
haha yeah that one should be an easy write-up!

SDbison
03-13-2008, 06:21 PM
Any more news on the Fargodome expansion. Is this thing going to get going in 2008? Seems like the BSA improvements are on hold now too. WTF? The BSA is an average DII facility at best. Something has to change and soon! Does anybody have the answers...........
1. When will BSA improvements start and what changes can be made while the Fargodome basketball / small venue discussion is in progress?
2. What is the soonest that the Fargodome expansion can get approved and construction begin?
3. Is there any way that the initial capacity for the new facility might be more in the area of 7000 to start, with possible expansion to 9500 or so? Making this facility too small, like 6000 to start, and with limited room to expand, may be a big mistake. Interest in Basketball could be huge once conference championships and NCAA tourney appearances are possible. Also, hosting non-conference games or holiday tournaments with big name teams would draw big crowds. After 15 years the Fargodome is now too small for Bison football. With basketball in a new facility with 6000 capacity that could happen in a few years. Exapandability to 7500 only makes it just a little bigger than the BSA. Hopefully the planners will see the light before building another undersize facility.

Greenie
03-13-2008, 08:04 PM
Everything is going on behind the scenes regarding the BSA and Fargodome...expect updates later this month or early April. Trust me --> good things will be happening soon.

tcbison
03-13-2008, 08:06 PM
Everything is going on behind the scenes regarding the BSA and Fargodome...expect updates later this month or early April. Trust me --> good things will be happening soon.

Thanks for the info Greenie!

imabison
03-13-2008, 08:09 PM
Everything is going on behind the scenes regarding the BSA and Fargodome...expect updates later this month or early April. Trust me --> good things will be happening soon.
If I recall the last data was that they had requested more accurate income estimates for the Arena. The wanted more than just estimated revenue, but on the estimated profit level etc.

I really do not seem many changes to the BSA remodeling, as they still want to add the practice facilities etc.

Ferd
03-13-2008, 08:45 PM
The architecture firm for the BSA remodeling is the same as the one working on the FFD expansion, though the FFD expansion is being done in conjunction with an out-of-state firm experienced in these type of projects.

My understanding is that they want to see what is going to happen with the FFD before they make any irrevocable decisions on the BSA. They want to keep as many options open as possible.

I have also heard that things are very favorable for the FFD expansion, but only to 6 or 7 thousand seats.

Remember, while it isn't ideal, there is an 11,000 seat facility right next door.

aces1180
03-13-2008, 08:57 PM
The architecture firm for the BSA remodeling is the same as the one working on the FFD expansion, though the FFD expansion is being done in conjunction with an out-of-state firm experienced in these type of projects.

My understanding is that they want to see what is going to happen with the FFD before they make any irrevocable decisions on the BSA. They want to keep as many options open as possible.

I have also heard that things are very favorable for the FFD expansion, but only to 6 or 7 thousand seats.

Remember, while it isn't ideal, there is an 11,000 seat facility right next door.

I wrote an article for Bison Illustrated in the January issue regarding the Fargodome expansion. TL Stroh is the Fargo firm working in conjunction with 360 Architecture in Kansas City, MO.

TheBisonator
03-13-2008, 09:53 PM
The architecture firm for the BSA remodeling is the same as the one working on the FFD expansion, though the FFD expansion is being done in conjunction with an out-of-state firm experienced in these type of projects.

My understanding is that they want to see what is going to happen with the FFD before they make any irrevocable decisions on the BSA. They want to keep as many options open as possible.

I have also heard that things are very favorable for the FFD expansion, but only to 6 or 7 thousand seats.

Remember, while it isn't ideal, there is an 11,000 seat facility right next door.

They still want it to be expandable to 8-9,000, though.

roadwarrior
03-13-2008, 10:15 PM
Remember, while it isn't ideal, there is an 11,000 seat facility right next door.

The ND class B tournament is being held today thru saturday with a setup of 10,500 seats in the Fargodome.

roadwarrior
03-13-2008, 10:23 PM
Any more news on the Fargodome expansion. Is this thing going to get going in 2008? Seems like the BSA improvements are on hold now too. WTF? The BSA is an average DII facility at best. Something has to change and soon! Does anybody have the answers...........
1. When will BSA improvements start and what changes can be made while the Fargodome basketball / small venue discussion is in progress?
2. What is the soonest that the Fargodome expansion can get approved and construction begin?
3. Is there any way that the initial capacity for the new facility might be more in the area of 7000 to start, with possible expansion to 9500 or so? Making this facility too small, like 6000 to start, and with limited room to expand, may be a big mistake. Interest in Basketball could be huge once conference championships and NCAA tourney appearances are possible. Also, hosting non-conference games or holiday tournaments with big name teams would draw big crowds. After 15 years the Fargodome is now too small for Bison football. With basketball in a new facility with 6000 capacity that could happen in a few years. Exapandability to 7500 only makes it just a little bigger than the BSA. Hopefully the planners will see the light before building another undersize facility.

1 - I believe the State Board of HE told NDSU that the BSA project had to done all in one project, so they are waiting to see if the Fargodome project is a go. I think two sets of plans are being drawn up for the BSA - one includes upgrades for a basketball arena, the other one does not.
2 - Soon
3 - I think there are a little over 6000 seats in the Fargodome project. The only way this project is going to happen is if the cost isnt out of reach. Remember, this project is going to be funded with cash in the bank from the dome authority and matching funds/naming rights from NDSU. The attraction to the dome authority is to have a smaller venue than the football arena to rent out for other events. They don't want another large arena.

I was at the class B tournament today, and if the setup of 10,500 seats was filled, it wouldnt be too bad of a venue. The big problem is the distance from the court of the end zone seats.

SDbison
03-14-2008, 01:16 AM
1 - I believe the State Board of HE told NDSU that the BSA project had to done all in one project, so they are waiting to see if the Fargodome project is a go. I think two sets of plans are being drawn up for the BSA - one includes upgrades for a basketball arena, the other one does not.
2 - Soon
3 - I think there are a little over 6000 seats in the Fargodome project. The only way this project is going to happen is if the cost isnt out of reach. Remember, this project is going to be funded with cash in the bank from the dome authority and matching funds/naming rights from NDSU. The attraction to the dome authority is to have a smaller venue than the football arena to rent out for other events. They don't want another large arena.

I was at the class B tournament today, and if the setup of 10,500 seats was filled, it wouldnt be too bad of a venue. The big problem is the distance from the court of the end zone seats.
Thank for the info Road, and others.......
Sounds like the Fargodome is not that good of a basketball venue even though it can hold 10,500. I don't want the basketball court addition to be that big. I believe it is more ideal to have a starting capacity of 7000 with expandability to 9500. The plan to start with 6000 and have expandability to 7500 is short-sighted. When you think about the other purpose for this facility it makes sense to be a little bit bigger. In concert configuration with stage at one end (i.e. take away seats behind stage), a 6000 seat basketball arena might only have room for 4000 to 5000 people. Instead, if the maximum was a 9500 seat basketball venue, it could seat as many as 7000 to 8000 in concert configuration. The dome gets cavernous or impractical for events that have less than 9000 or 10000 in attendance. Just my observations. Saving a few milllion on a 35 million dollar structure so that it soon becomes undersized is ridiculous.
NOTE: Fun to discuss this stuff and see Fargo / NDSU get things done. To compare, Sioux Falls has talked about a new Arena for 10 plus years and nothing is on paper yet. Still have the 1960 Sioux Falls Arena with a capacity of 5000 for a city the same size as Fargo-Moorhead. In many ways FM is way ahead of Sioux Falls!

99Bison
03-14-2008, 05:10 AM
Thank for the info Road, and others.......
Sounds like the Fargodome is not that good of a basketball venue even though it can hold 10,500. I don't want the basketball court addition to be that big. I believe it is more ideal to have a starting capacity of 7000 with expandability to 9500. The plan to start with 6000 and have expandability to 7500 is short-sighted. When you think about the other purpose for this facility it makes sense to be a little bit bigger. In concert configuration with stage at one end (i.e. take away seats behind stage), a 6000 seat basketball arena might only have room for 4000 to 5000 people. Instead, if the maximum was a 9500 seat basketball venue, it could seat as many as 7000 to 8000 in concert configuration. The dome gets cavernous or impractical for events that have less than 9000 or 10000 in attendance. Just my observations. Saving a few milllion on a 35 million dollar structure so that it soon becomes undersized is ridiculous.
NOTE: Fun to discuss this stuff and see Fargo / NDSU get things done. To compare, Sioux Falls has talked about a new Arena for 10 plus years and nothing is on paper yet. Still have the 1960 Sioux Falls Arena with a capacity of 5000 for a city the same size as Fargo-Moorhead. In many ways FM is way ahead of Sioux Falls!


"When you think about the other purpose for this facility it makes sense to be a little bit bigger. In concert configuration with stage at one end (i.e. take away seats behind stage), a 6000 seat basketball arena might only have room for 4000 to 5000 people."

Actually to the contrary, one end of the BB setup doesn't have hardley any seats (the side is nearly flat against the current dome structure). These seats will probably be more than replaced by floor seats.

You should take a look at the Bison Illustrated Article, there are drawings in there and such.

NDSUstudent
03-14-2008, 05:38 AM
Is an arena that seats 6-7k really that bad?

-It will be easier to sellout and I am definitely a believer in sellout crowds creating a certain buzz factor. A buzz that leads to more televised games and a better all-around atmosphere.

-There is little doubt that a smaller arena will be more intimate, I can't stand big cavernous arena's for college hoops. Sure they can be intimidating but unless you get big crowds you get a stale atmosphere.

Gully
03-14-2008, 11:18 AM
Is an arena that seats 6-7k really that bad?

-It will be easier to sellout and I am definitely a believer in sellout crowds creating a certain buzz factor. A buzz that leads to more televised games and a better all-around atmosphere.

-There is little doubt that a smaller arena will be more intimate, I can't stand big cavernous arena's for college hoops. Sure they can be intimidating but unless you get big crowds you get a stale atmosphere.

IMHO 7,000 would be fine and if it can be expanding a little.....wonderful. I'd rather have an intimate setting sold out and then they can jack the prices up and hack off Herd Mentality again!

bisonmike2
03-14-2008, 02:31 PM
6K is perfect. It's more than double of what we currently average for attendence. And remember that the committee needs to sell this to the public as a perceived need. We "need" an arena smaller than the Fargodome to attract different types of touring acts. I'm sure people are thinking why build a 9000 to 10000 seat basketball arena when the Fargodome has a basketball configuration of 10000. Seems too similiar to justify spending the on a new arena. And, yes I know baskeball at the dome sucks unless it's filled, but where talking about trying to convince Grandma and Grandpa who have been bitching about the 1/2 cent sales tax since it began. And yes I also know this doesn't require public vote but I doubt the committee members will vote for it if it sees a huge coalition against this arena.

56BISON73
03-14-2008, 03:13 PM
When was the last time the BSA sold out and how many people will it hold???? PL

Trim
03-14-2008, 03:20 PM
When was the last time the BSA sold out and how many people will it hold???? PL

K-State last year. Just over 6K I believe.

56BISON73
03-14-2008, 03:23 PM
K-State last year. Just over 6K I believe.

Two more questions. How many times does it sellout in a year? Whats avg attendance? PL

UTH
03-14-2008, 03:24 PM
When was the last time the BSA sold out and how many people will it hold???? PL

From GoBison.com... [linky (http://www.gobison.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=2400&KEY=&ATCLID=69829)]

"Opened in 1970 at an initial cost of $3.1 million, the arena has held as many as 8,000 fans for college basketball, but has since been reconfigured to seat around 6,000 for basketball and wrestling, including 2,200 upper-level seats for indoor track and field."

bisonmike2
03-14-2008, 03:36 PM
[QUOTE=SDbison;183306
NOTE: Fun to discuss this stuff and see Fargo / NDSU get things done. To compare, Sioux Falls has talked about a new Arena for 10 plus years and nothing is on paper yet. Still have the 1960 Sioux Falls Arena with a capacity of 5000 for a city the same size as Fargo-Moorhead. In many ways FM is way ahead of Sioux Falls![/QUOTE]

It's been more than 10 years. I rember them talking about a new arena in the early 90's. They settled on eventually doing the cosmetic upgrades, adding the convention rooms and lobby area. Around 2000ish a farmer offered to donate his land south of Loiuse Ave and 229 to the city to build a new arena. They schwaked that idea b/c they didn't like the location and they were committed to building something downtown. Well it's almost 10 years later and they still are dumping money into the arena. Which is the worst place I have ever watched a concert at in my life. There is so much corporate money in Sioux Falls I can't believe they can't get something done.

Greenie
03-14-2008, 04:04 PM
And yes I also know this doesn't require public vote but I doubt the committee members will vote for it if it sees a huge coalition against this arena.

After the plans are released to the public ---> Those in favor of the addition must make their voice heard. We need a large coalition to match and exceed the noisy minority against the arena.

Hammersmith
03-14-2008, 04:36 PM
Two more questions. How many times does it sellout in a year? Whats avg attendance? PL
Over the last 4 seasons, the BSA has sold out twice; once for an SDSU M/W doubleheader to close out the '04-'05 season, and last year's K-State game. (Attendances were 6,052 and 6,110, respectively.) MBB season averages for the last four seasons were 1654, 2488, 2625, and 3034. WBB averages were 1593, 1926, 1391, and 1536.

For another level of perspective, here are the numbers of games at a particular attendance number over the past four years(93 games total):

6k+: 2
5k-6k: 1
4k-5k: 4
3k-4k: 11
2k-3k: 22
1k-2k: 48
0-1k: 5

At first, I thought 6k would be too small for the initial project, but I've changed my mind over the past few months. As long as there is an option for upper decks on the NE and SW sides, I'm good with 6k to start with. Short of a trip to the Sweet-16 in the near future, I don't see us maxing out a 6k arena for a season prior to 2015. Ten years of sellout seasons should be enough to push for the expansion sometime in the 2020's.

Hammersmith
03-14-2008, 04:42 PM
Thank for the info Road, and others.......
Sounds like the Fargodome is not that good of a basketball venue even though it can hold 10,500. I don't want the basketball court addition to be that big. I believe it is more ideal to have a starting capacity of 7000 with expandability to 9500. The plan to start with 6000 and have expandability to 7500 is short-sighted. When you think about the other purpose for this facility it makes sense to be a little bit bigger. In concert configuration with stage at one end (i.e. take away seats behind stage), a 6000 seat basketball arena might only have room for 4000 to 5000 people. Instead, if the maximum was a 9500 seat basketball venue, it could seat as many as 7000 to 8000 in concert configuration. The dome gets cavernous or impractical for events that have less than 9000 or 10000 in attendance. Just my observations. Saving a few milllion on a 35 million dollar structure so that it soon becomes undersized is ridiculous.
NOTE: Fun to discuss this stuff and see Fargo / NDSU get things done. To compare, Sioux Falls has talked about a new Arena for 10 plus years and nothing is on paper yet. Still have the 1960 Sioux Falls Arena with a capacity of 5000 for a city the same size as Fargo-Moorhead. In many ways FM is way ahead of Sioux Falls!

According to the plans announced so far, in BB configuration, the arena will hold 6,011. In an end-stage concert configuration, it will hold about 6,400. In a concert in the round config, it will hold about 7,500.

56BISON73
03-14-2008, 05:17 PM
Over the last 4 seasons, the BSA has sold out twice; once for an SDSU M/W doubleheader to close out the '04-'05 season, and last year's K-State game. (Attendances were 6,052 and 6,110, respectively.) MBB season averages for the last four seasons were 1654, 2488, 2625, and 3034. WBB averages were 1593, 1926, 1391, and 1536.

For another level of perspective, here are the numbers of games at a particular attendance number over the past four years(93 games total):

6k+: 2
5k-6k: 1
4k-5k: 4
3k-4k: 11
2k-3k: 22
1k-2k: 48
0-1k: 5

At first, I thought 6k would be too small for the initial project, but I've changed my mind over the past few months. As long as there is an option for upper decks on the NE and SW sides, I'm good with 6k to start with. Short of a trip to the Sweet-16 in the near future, I don't see us maxing out a 6k arena for a season prior to 2015. Ten years of sellout seasons should be enough to push for the expansion sometime in the 2020's.

Hammer as usual you come through with the stats. I think you are on the money here. If you look at the actual figures the new arena wont be over flowing any time soon at 6000. The new arena might get you an additional couple hundred a game IMO.
But if the team was good enough it wouldnt matter what arena they they were playing in. Plus the new arena would be used for other things besides BB. PL

Herd
03-14-2008, 05:48 PM
This arena should be 8-10K, and it should be in the roatation for the State Class B tourney. A new arena, capable of housing 10,000 would put Fargo solidly in place for the biggest events in ND. We should be thinking larger than NDSU basketball year 1.

Class B's opinion of Fargo would change greatly if they stepped into a new arena. If you read the recent forum article, Class B is not too fond of the FFD.

Bison Dan
03-14-2008, 05:50 PM
Hammer as usual you come through with the stats. I think you are on the money here. If you look at the actual figures the new arena wont be over flowing any time soon at 6000. The new arena might get you an additional couple hundred a game IMO.
But if the team was good enough it wouldnt matter what arena they they were playing in. Plus the new arena would be used for other things besides BB. PL

I disagree 100% - Look at the REA before it was built the old arena hardly ever got over 6,000. If it's built you could easily add 1,500 to the average. Hell the suites hold over 150 and they'll all be sold out. With a good team you could see near sell outs every game.

NDSUstudent
03-14-2008, 05:56 PM
This arena should be 8-10K, and it should be in the roatation for the State Class B tourney. A new arena, capable of housing 10,000 would put Fargo solidly in place for the biggest events in ND. We should be thinking larger than NDSU basketball year 1.

Class B's opinion of Fargo would change greatly if they stepped into a new arena. If you read the recent forum article, Class B is not too fond of the FFD.

Neither NDSU or the Fargodome has 60-70 million laying around, the price tag for that kind of arena would mean a public vote and that equals no arena. I'll glady take a 6-7k arena over the alternative.

56BISON73
03-14-2008, 06:00 PM
I disagree 100% - Look at the REA before it was built the old arena hardly ever got over 6,000. If it's built you could easily add 1,500 to the average. Hell the suites hold over 150 and they'll all be sold out. With a good team you could see near sell outs every game.

That is all speculation on your part but I myself would not bet on the possibility of that happening. Would I like it to happen sure. But if you bet on the come you get burned. With that thought in mind Iam sure they have already done the research and have pitched those suites to corporations to find out the interest and possible sponsorships involved
But the biggest thing is the arena will be used much more for other things. Which means you need to have a cracker jack Chamber of Commerce-Convention Bureau bring in that type of business. PL

NDSUstudent
03-14-2008, 06:08 PM
I think a new arena adds 1-2k to attendance, the BSA is just so bad on so many levels. It does nothing to attract fans and little to keep them coming. I do realize the product on the floor is a major factor in attendance but I'd never overlook better sightlines and amenities.

bisonmike2
03-14-2008, 06:09 PM
A 6 to 7K arena is by no means settling. It would be a great improvement over what we have. It's not like we are going to build a morton building and slap Alerus on the front.

Greenie
03-14-2008, 06:24 PM
I also agree with the 6000 capacity, as long as it could be added to in the future. Right now 6000 is plenty as Hammer pointed out, and more seating would bust the budget.

Out of curiosity, I just talked with the Bismarck Civic Center (favorite site for basketball in the state according to Class B officials and others). Their seating capacity for high-school basketball is 8015, and for pro-basketball it is 8367. So...if the Fargodome addition has the potential to add another 2000 seats or so, I am satisfied with 6000 to start with.

56BISON73
03-14-2008, 06:29 PM
If you look at Hammers figures on the avg attendance

6k+: 2
5k-6k: 1
4k-5k: 4
3k-4k: 11
2k-3k: 22
1k-2k: 48
0-1k: 5

You could add 1000-2000 people to the attendance because of the new stadium and still have plenty of room with 6,000 seats.
PL

99Bison
03-14-2008, 08:09 PM
If you look at Hammers figures on the avg attendance

6k+: 2
5k-6k: 1
4k-5k: 4
3k-4k: 11
2k-3k: 22
1k-2k: 48
0-1k: 5

You could add 1000-2000 people to the attendance because of the new stadium and still have plenty of room with 6,000 seats.
PL

However, these are also figures from the worst attendance period in the last 30 years. One of transitional purgatory, no/new conference or whatever reason one would like.

If you look at it overall, throw out some high and lows with 1-2k on top of that you are about between 5k and sold out+ at 6k the majority of the time.

http://www.arucaelectronics.com/hostedpics/ndsubbattendance.jpg

lakesbison
03-14-2008, 08:19 PM
who else thinks averaging 2500 for NDSU basketball this year is P A T H E T I C !!!!!!!!!!!!

100,000 people in Fargo and we cant average 5,000 with the talent on this team is a PATHETIC JOKE!!

NDSUstudent
03-14-2008, 08:25 PM
who else thinks averaging 2500 for NDSU basketball this year is P A T H E T I C !!!!!!!!!!!!

100,000 people in Fargo and we cant average 5,000 with the talent on this team is a PATHETIC JOKE!!

Lakes 2.5k was last year, we hit 3k this year. Still pathetic but at least things are going in the right direction. We should average 4k next year.

SDbison
03-14-2008, 08:26 PM
Much as the BSA sucks there were many games each year back in the early 1980's when the place was sold out. There were also a bunch more games each year back then that were nearly sold out. This was for DII basketball 25 years ago! The FM area and NDSU have grown significantly since then. I was there for most games in the early 1980's and attendance was accurate as people filled both sides, even the seats blocked by the pillars on the west side. Look at the average attendance back in the early 1980's and then double that. That is what a successful DI program will bring, not to mention a facility where every seat is good. 6000 is too small. Even limiting expansion to 7500 is too small. Can't wait to say told you so.

56BISON73
03-14-2008, 08:38 PM
Much as the BSA sucks there were many games each year back in the early 1980's when the place was sold out. There were also a bunch more games each year back then that were nearly sold out. This was for DII basketball 25 years ago! The FM area and NDSU have grown significantly since then. I was there for most games in the early 1980's and attendance was accurate as people filled both sides, even the seats blocked by the pillars on the west side. Look at the average attendance back in the early 1980's and then double that. That is what a successful DI program will bring, not to mention a facility where every seat is good. 6000 is too small. Even limiting expansion to 7500 is too small. Can't wait to say told you so.

SD
You could be right. PL

roadwarrior
03-14-2008, 08:54 PM
SD, how would NDSU get an arena the size you are looking at? Other than one of us winning the powerball jackpot this saturday?

The city and the dome will not be participating in the project if the arena gets bigger than planned. They want a SMALLER arena to attract other events that do not like the hugeness of the football arena. The position of the dome management is that they already have a 10,000 seat basketball arena.

If NDSU demands an arena in the range of 10,000 seats, it will end up being an NDSU only project. With money still short on the BSA project, we would end up with a remodeled BSA with not much more than new more comfortable seating. The capacity would be no more, maybe even less, than todays arena. Then we would have to wait many more years before NDSU would be able to raise enough money to build their own arena.

SDbison
03-14-2008, 09:55 PM
SD, how would NDSU get an arena the size you are looking at? Other than one of us winning the powerball jackpot this saturday?

The city and the dome will not be participating in the project if the arena gets bigger than planned. They want a SMALLER arena to attract other events that do not like the hugeness of the football arena. The position of the dome management is that they already have a 10,000 seat basketball arena.

If NDSU demands an arena in the range of 10,000 seats, it will end up being an NDSU only project. With money still short on the BSA project, we would end up with a remodeled BSA with not much more than new more comfortable seating. The capacity would be no more, maybe even less, than todays arena. Then we would have to wait many more years before NDSU would be able to raise enough money to build their own arena.
I am not trying to pick a fight here, just asking some questions. Also, I don't have the answers. 6000 is well below 10000 though. OK, build it for 6000 now, but the structure should support expandability to 9000 without having to add to, or modify, the outer shell. BTW, nobody had any comments about all the attendance in the early 80's.............?
Back then NDSU basketball attracted 5 to 6 thousand fans on a regular basis for 3 years or so. That was for DII basketball 25 years ago. Seems NDSU is willing to undersize a facility again just to keep the dome management happy.

Gully
03-14-2008, 10:22 PM
I am not trying to pick a fight here, just asking some questions. Also, I don't have the answers. 6000 is well below 10000 though. OK, build it for 6000 now, but the structure should support expandability to 9000 without having to add to, or modify, the outer shell. BTW, nobody had any comments about all the attendance in the early 80's.............?
Back then NDSU basketball attracted 5 to 6 thousand fans on a regular basis for 3 years or so. That was for DII basketball 25 years ago. Seems NDSU is willing to undersize a facility again just to keep the dome management happy.


I can't argue about the attendance figures but where will the money come from to build it bigger? Road made some great points. If it is bigger someone will have to step up and build NDSU their own arena.

90BISON
03-14-2008, 10:28 PM
I am not trying to pick a fight here, just asking some questions. Also, I don't have the answers. 6000 is well below 10000 though. OK, build it for 6000 now, but the structure should support expandability to 9000 without having to add to, or modify, the outer shell. BTW, nobody had any comments about all the attendance in the early 80's.............?
Back then NDSU basketball attracted 5 to 6 thousand fans on a regular basis for 3 years or so. That was for DII basketball 25 years ago. Seems NDSU is willing to undersize a facility again just to keep the dome management happy.

What, you couldn't see me nodding my head in agreement?;) I knew we got bigger crowds back then, was briefly discussed in a different thread not too long ago, and my questions then which nobody seemed to know (not sure how you could in any proveable fashion) was what happened? This is obviously one of the best teams that the Bison have ever had on the floor, but does anybody other than the Bison faithfull know it? I've personally gone to more games in the last 2 years than I probably did in the last 5 years before that.:confused:

90BISON
03-14-2008, 10:31 PM
I can't argue about the attendance figures but where will the money come from to build it bigger? Road made some great points. If it is bigger someone will have to step up and build NDSU their own arena.

What, we don't have any casino owning, Nazi paraphenalia collecting, old alumni with a few million laying around collecting mold that couldn't do it?:D

Herd
03-14-2008, 11:16 PM
If we build a new basketball arena at 6000, then we turn around and host the Class B tournament in the Dome, what the hell kind of sence does that make. If we build it at 6000, that's what we will be doing.

We better be able to pull the trigger to 10,000 within a year or two if it does get built at 6000, or I have a big porblem with it. Otherwise, I don't like it at all, and we defer to the Bismarck civic center every time.

It should be the best Basketball facility in the state, bar none, not a OK solution. This will be used for the next 30-40 years.

SDbison
03-15-2008, 01:57 AM
If we build a new basketball arena at 6000, then we turn around and host the Class B tournament in the Dome, what the hell kind of sence does that make. If we build it at 6000, that's what we will be doing.

We better be able to pull the trigger to 10,000 within a year or two if it does get built at 6000, or I have a big porblem with it. Otherwise, I don't like it at all, and we defer to the Bismarck civic center every time.

It should be the best Basketball facility in the state, bar none, not a OK solution. This will be used for the next 30-40 years.
Exactly!.........this is not going to be a facility for some small private school, like even a successful one like Gonzaga. This is for NDSU, a state school with nearly 13,000 students that takes pride in its athletics. Give it a break rural ND......6000 is puny......not asking for anything the size of Iowa State's facility!

tjbison
03-15-2008, 02:40 AM
I also agree at least 10,000, doesn't the Minot State university thing up there seat 10,000, i could be wrong?

Ferd
03-15-2008, 03:18 AM
I've been a season ticket holder since 1991. The only true sellouts I witnessed were several during the womens regional and national tourneys and one or two games against that college up north. We haven't had a truly packed house in the last 10 years! Even in the Kansas game there were hundreds of empty seats on the NW and SW sections and those aren't all reserved.

I'd be happy with a 6,000 seat, intimate facility that we will still have to work hard to fill. It'll take 10 to 15 years to fill 6,000 seats on a regular basis.

This is especially the case if trying to make 8,000 seats will kill the project!

I'd much rather have a problem with real sold out games than playing in an empty cavernous arena

roadwarrior
03-15-2008, 03:50 AM
I attended tonight two basketball games in a 10,000 seat arena that already exists in Fargo. Do we need two? I have never been a big fan of basketball in the dome, but it grew on me this week. If you had 7000+ fans in there, it would be a pretty awesome atmosphere. With only 3,000 fans it would suck.

This is the 4th time the Fargodome has hosted the Class B tournament. I believe that 2 of the previous times are the top grossing tournaments ever.

sambini
03-15-2008, 11:55 AM
I attended tonight two basketball games in a 10,000 seat arena that already exists in Fargo. Do we need two? I have never been a big fan of basketball in the dome, but it grew on me this week. If you had 7000+ fans in there, it would be a pretty awesome atmosphere. With only 3,000 fans it would suck.

This is the 4th time the Fargodome has hosted the Class B tournament. I believe that 2 of the previous times are the top grossing tournaments ever.+++++++++++++++++

tjbison
03-15-2008, 01:23 PM
I attended tonight two basketball games in a 10,000 seat arena that already exists in Fargo. Do we need two? I have never been a big fan of basketball in the dome, but it grew on me this week. If you had 7000+ fans in there, it would be a pretty awesome atmosphere. With only 3,000 fans it would suck.

This is the 4th time the Fargodome has hosted the Class B tournament. I believe that 2 of the previous times are the top grossing tournaments ever.

Good points Road, do you suppose that last year if the K-state game would have been in the dome with the current BBall config, 7-10K would have shown up? Just a question, I am wondering if the allure of the Dome would have attracted more people out, and if next year there is a 'big" game on the schedule why not try it? I have never been to the Dome for BBall, and even seeing it on TV I can't understand why its so bad? Do you think if the new arena which will undoubtedly be the most state of the art BB arena in the state with 6,000 seats would get the attention of the NDSHAA to give Fargo the "B" more than once every 8 years, which is what the forum stated Thurs.? we are slowly being dropped from the rotation losing to Minot and Bismarck both with old but big arenas 10,000 capacity, thats why I thought 10K was the magic#.

extremerouge
03-15-2008, 01:30 PM
Exactly!.........this is not going to be a facility for some small private school, like even a successful one like Gonzaga. This is for NDSU, a state school with nearly 13,000 students that takes pride in its athletics. Give it a break rural ND......6000 is puny......not asking for anything the size of Iowa State's facility!

I was just at Iowas State's Hilton Coliseum and saw them play K-State! It was an awesome atmosphere!

Bisonguy
03-15-2008, 02:08 PM
Good points Road, do you suppose that last year if the K-state game would have been in the dome with the current BBall config, 7-10K would have shown up? Just a question, I am wondering if the allure of the Dome would have attracted more people out, and if next year there is a 'big" game on the schedule why not try it? I have never been to the Dome for BBall, and even seeing it on TV I can't understand why its so bad? Do you think if the new arena which will undoubtedly be the most state of the art BB arena in the state with 6,000 seats would get the attention of the NDSHAA to give Fargo the "B" more than once every 8 years, which is what the forum stated Thurs.? we are slowly being dropped from the rotation losing to Minot and Bismarck both with old but big arenas 10,000 capacity, thats why I thought 10K was the magic#.

Bismarck only seats 8,600 (http://www.bismarckmandancvb.com/meetingplanners/civiccenter.asp) for basketball. I doubt Minot seats much, if any, more.

Wanting the tourney in Bismarck has a lot more to do with Imperial Cass than the facilities.

tjbison
03-15-2008, 02:19 PM
Bismarck only seats 8,600 (http://www.bismarckmandancvb.com/meetingplanners/civiccenter.asp) for basketball. I doubt Minot seats much, if any, more.

Wanting the tourney in Bismarck has a lot more to do with Imperial Cass than the facilities.


I always heard 10,000 in Bismarck. Minot's "dome" seats 10,000
http://www.msubeavers.com/facilities.shtml

Bisonguy
03-15-2008, 02:32 PM
10,100 is concert seating capacity, at least for Bismarck.

If capacity is an issue to the state tourneys, the NDHSSA should have an independent audit of seating at all possible host sites. I have a feeling some of the seating numbers might not be accurate.

Herd
03-15-2008, 02:34 PM
I am not trying to kill the project, so if the project can happen at 6000, it better be expandable to 8000 or 10,000. I just don't understand why we would want less than 8000 seats. Projects like these are all about $$, even if it doesn't make sence.

Bisonguy
03-15-2008, 02:36 PM
Anyone know what the proposed seating number really is? I thought it was 6,400 or 6,700, but can't find the article anymore.

Hammersmith
03-15-2008, 02:47 PM
Anyone know what the proposed seating number really is? I thought it was 6,400 or 6,700, but can't find the article anymore.
Initial construction is for 6,011 BB, ~6,400 concert, ~7,500 concert in the round. I haven't heard any offical numbers regarding future expansion, just that the plans will include it. Looking at the plans, it appears that the roof could be raised rather easily to allow for upper decks on the NW and SW sides. I'd figure 1,000+ per side. That's just a guess, though.

Numbers come from the January Bison Illustrated(Bue on the cover), and they match what was in the Forum. edit: I could've sworn I saw the 6,011 seat figure in a Forum article, but I can't find it anymore. I still think it's correct, though. Is Mitch Raile a BV member? (He wrote the BI article.)

99Bison
03-15-2008, 03:13 PM
So, it sounds like it unanamous... :) What ya'all are say is:
- Rather have 6k full than 10k half full.
- 6k may be to small pretty quick.
- It better be expandable.
- Not sure if it will be expandable enough.
- Better to have 6k now than try to force something else along.

:) :)

99Bison
03-15-2008, 03:14 PM
Is Mitch Raile a BV member? (He wrote the BI article.)

Yes he is, he posted in this thread also.

SDbison
03-15-2008, 03:41 PM
I've been a season ticket holder since 1991. The only true sellouts I witnessed were several during the womens regional and national tourneys and one or two games against that college up north. We haven't had a truly packed house in the last 10 years! Even in the Kansas game there were hundreds of empty seats on the NW and SW sections and those aren't all reserved.

I'd be happy with a 6,000 seat, intimate facility that we will still have to work hard to fill. It'll take 10 to 15 years to fill 6,000 seats on a regular basis.

This is especially the case if trying to make 8,000 seats will kill the project!

I'd much rather have a problem with real sold out games than playing in an empty cavernous arena
Can they at least try to make it a bit bigger than 6000 capacity? Seems there was no study done to right size this facility. Did dome management just predetermine that was the capacity they wanted for the small venue concerts and then sell NDSU on that number? What is the incremental cost for each additional 500 seats? What is the cost of providing for each additional 500 seats of future expansion? Like I said earlier, I am OK with 6000 to start if they build it such that it could be relatively easy to expand to 9000 later. Is that feasible or even possible?
Also, regarding the cavernous effect that both you and Road refer to.........well the basketball facility won't have a 150 foot high ceiling like the Fargodome requires for football. That is what makes the place so cavernous. Too much open space means the Fargodome basketball configuration will never be intimate even if 10,000 people are there.
As for the comments about the BSA never actually being filled for basketball..........just look at the ridiculous design. It was intended to be a multisport facility so many of the permanent seats on the west side go way past the end lines of the basketball court, yet point perpendicular to the action. How about dozens of seats that have 50% view directly blocked by those pillars. Then if you sit at the top you can't even read the scoreboard because you are looking through the roof trusses. Nice design to start with. In addition, there is the lack of bathrooms and concessions stands even when the place is half full. Finally, the best feature, doors that open directly to the outside (without a entryway) so that cold air can blow in and bring the temperature way down inside.
In summary, the BSA itself is a big detractor for Bison basketball. Unlike the Fargodome where there isn't a bad seat in the place, the BSA loses its appeal after 4000 butts are in the seats. I really think there is a legitimate concern that the new facility will be undersize at 6000 capacity within 2 or 3 years. Attendance will grow significantly now that NDSU is playing for a DI conference championship and a spot in the NCAA tournament, not to mention the possibility of hosting some big name teams in the future. Just having a new facility with great seats will bring an additional 1000 per game. When the excitement of the early 1980's is regained there will be 8000 or more consistently wanting tickets for each game. The Fargodome football converted to basketball venue will not be the answer on a regular basis and will only turn people off like the BSA has already done.

SDbison
03-15-2008, 03:52 PM
I was just at Iowas State's Hilton Coliseum and saw them play K-State! It was an awesome atmosphere!
I was there when NDSU played Iowa State a year ago this past new years day. Very nice facility, but probably too big for NDSU. Can't remember, wasn't its capacity around 11,000? Just hope NDSU can get a facility that is more in the 7000 to 8000 range.

d3boys
03-15-2008, 05:35 PM
I was there when NDSU played Iowa State a year ago this past new years day. Very nice facility, but probably too big for NDSU. Can't remember, wasn't its capacity around 11,000? Just hope NDSU can get a facility that is more in the 7000 to 8000 range.

the hilton at ames holds 14000
awesome atmosphere but the students work at it

capitalcitybison
03-15-2008, 07:35 PM
I did some searching on what other mid majors avg. for attendance. I tried to find there best recent season. Southern Illinois in 06-07 was 29-7 and avg 7743 in 9800 seat arena. Northern Iowa 6300 in a 7000 seat arena. Illinios State 07-08, 6381 in a 10,000 seat arena. Montana was 24-7 in 05-06 and averaged 5000. Butler is 29-3 this year and averages 6000 in a 10,000 seat arena. Wyoming 6000 in 15000, Drake 6000 in 7000. Crieghton 15000 in the 17000 seat 291 million dollar Quest center. Wichita state 10,500 avg. I think a 6000 to 7000 seat arena is going to be just right. If it is expandable from there that would be a bonus. Any bigger and we break the budget and we will be playing in a remodeled BSA for the next 20 years. I'm sure there wouldn't be any bitching about that.

tjbison
03-15-2008, 10:20 PM
[QUOTE=capitalcitybison;183571] I think a 6000 to 7000 seat arena is going to be just right. [QUOTE]

Yes it will, but will a 6000 seat arena look attractive to the MVC if they came looking for a new member in 3-5 years? I wonder what they would consider big enough 6000, 7000, 10,000 anybody?

tony
03-16-2008, 12:01 AM
[quote=capitalcitybison;183571] I think a 6000 to 7000 seat arena is going to be just right. [quote]

Yes it will, but will a 6000 seat arena look attractive to the MVC if they came looking for a new member in 3-5 years? I wonder what they would consider big enough 6000, 7000, 10,000 anybody?

Well, the very newest arena in the MVC (Northern Iowa's) is 7000 - and that has some bleacher seating to get that high. If NDSU is selling out consistently (something I could see happening at a new arena but not at the BSA), then I think that would be more attractive to the MVC than a bigger arena that doesn't sell out. Like we found out at with the Fargodome, scarcity seems to generate demand.

Personally, I'd rather have it be 7000 to 7500 but if the choice is 6000 or play in a remodeled BSA, I vote for a new arena.

TheBisonator
03-16-2008, 03:55 AM
When it's all expanded, I'd like to see us end up with something like Chaifetz Arena at Saint Louis University.

Check it:

http://www.seats3d.com/ncaa/saint_louis_university/basketball/

SDbison
03-16-2008, 04:16 PM
When it's all expanded, I'd like to see us end up with something like Chaifetz Arena at Saint Louis University.

Check it:

http://www.seats3d.com/ncaa/saint_louis_university/basketball/

What is the capacity of this arena? Looks bigger than 10,000.....

tjbison
03-16-2008, 04:42 PM
Well, the very newest arena in the MVC (Northern Iowa's) is 7000 - and that has some bleacher seating to get that high. If NDSU is selling out consistently (something I could see happening at a new arena but not at the BSA), then I think that would be more attractive to the MVC than a bigger arena that doesn't sell out. Like we found out at with the Fargodome, scarcity seems to generate demand.

Personally, I'd rather have it be 7000 to 7500 but if the choice is 6000 or play in a remodeled BSA, I vote for a new arena.

I agree the BSA is done, if they decide to build it anything will be better than what we have now!

Hammersmith
03-16-2008, 06:18 PM
When it's all expanded, I'd like to see us end up with something like Chaifetz Arena at Saint Louis University.

Check it:

http://www.seats3d.com/ncaa/saint_louis_university/basketball/

I think it will look more like...
https://www.seats3d.com/ncaa/university_virginia/
...when it's all said and done. Although, I don't think there'll be any upper deck seating opposite the stage end, just along the sides, and the upper deck won't be quite so deep.

(FYI, the John Paul Jones Arena at the University of Virginia seats about 15,000, was completed in 2006, and cost $130 million including practice facilities and a parking garage.)

Tatanka
03-16-2008, 08:18 PM
When it's all expanded, I'd like to see us end up with something like Chaifetz Arena at Saint Louis University.

Check it:

http://www.seats3d.com/ncaa/saint_louis_university/basketball/
Yes, SLU is finally getting their own arena!!! Looks pretty big until you dig a bit deeper and find out that SLU used to sell out the (18000+) Scottrade Center (where the NHL Blues play!) back in the day. St Louis doesn't have pro "basketball", and SLU is THE basketball ticket in town (for those that don't travel the 100 miles to Mizzou games). Also, you're looking at a metro area of about 3M to draw from... so in their case, absolutely a 10000+ seater makes sense.

As much as i'd love to see Fargo get a 10k seat basketball arena and fill it for Bison games, I have to believe that a smaller seat count config (for now) with expansion options makes more sense.

TheBisonator
03-16-2008, 09:15 PM
I think it will look more like...
https://www.seats3d.com/ncaa/university_virginia/
...when it's all said and done. Although, I don't think there'll be any upper deck seating opposite the stage end, just along the sides, and the upper deck won't be quite so deep.

(FYI, the John Paul Jones Arena at the University of Virginia seats about 15,000, was completed in 2006, and cost $130 million including practice facilities and a parking garage.)

OK, THIS is actually the arena I think it's gonna look like, at least before expansion.

Al McGuire Center at Marquette University:

http://www.seats3d.com/ncaa/marquette_university/al_mcguire_center/

roadwarrior
03-17-2008, 01:08 AM
Well apparently someone from West Virginia stole my winning powerball ticket, so there goes the new arena with my name!

Choices for 2008:

A = Fargodome addition with 6000 seats
B = Remodeled BSA basketball arena with no more (i am guessing) than 6000 seats

One of these two options is going to happen this year. I'm voting for A.

BisBison
03-17-2008, 12:20 PM
Well apparently someone from West Virginia stole my winning powerball ticket, so there goes the new arena with my name!

Choices for 2008:

A = Fargodome addition with 6000 seats
B = Remodeled BSA basketball arena with no more (i am guessing) than 6000 seats

One of these two options is going to happen this year. I'm voting for A.

I vote for A too. Especially in view of the fact that it's being designed to be expandable to 8,000 seats.

Ferd
03-17-2008, 01:53 PM
I vote for A too. Especially in view of the fact that it's being designed to be expandable to 8,000 seats.

Where does everyone get the idea that it's going to be expandable? I would like it to be but I have heard from someone involved with the design(I am NOT Lakes!) that expandability chances are are slim because of the costs involved.

:confused: :confused:

Trim
03-17-2008, 02:34 PM
Where does everyone get the idea that it's going to be expandable? I would like it to be but I have heard from someone involved with the design(I am NOT Lakes!) that expandability chances are are slim because of the costs involved.

:confused: :confused:

I believe that was floated around in one of the early articles I read, but I too wonder if that is absolutely correct.

99Bison
03-17-2008, 02:52 PM
I believe that was floated around in one of the early articles I read, but I too wonder if that is absolutely correct.

It has been stated directly by the folks working on the design. That's why it's been in articles. Whether or not that makes it into the final design and is still feasible, lets hope so.

Hammerhead
03-18-2008, 03:23 AM
As for expandability, some arenas have put up false walls around sections in the upper deck to remove seats making it easier to sell out.

When the indoor lacrosse team plays in the Rose Garden, they lower curtains around the upper decks behind the goal to provide a more intimate atmosphere. Why not do the same with the new arena only leave the curtain(s) down until more seats are added.

bisonaudit
03-18-2008, 02:21 PM
As for expandability, some arenas have put up false walls around sections in the upper deck to remove seats making it easier to sell out.

When the indoor lacrosse team plays in the Rose Garden, they lower curtains around the upper decks behind the goal to provide a more intimate atmosphere. Why not do the same with the new arena only leave the curtain(s) down until more seats are added.

This is pretty common. The Twins do it in the Metrodome. The Marlins do it, the A's do it. They do it at Verizon Center in DC for various events. The Spurs did it when they played at the Alamo Dome.

One of the problems is that seats aren't widgets. For most stuff we expect marginal costs to decline as production volume increases while revenue per unit remains relatively fixed. With stadium seating the marginal cost of extra seats increases while at the same time the associated revenues decrease.

Ferd
03-18-2008, 03:01 PM
First off -- I'm all for expandability, but

I don't think it's the cost of the extra seats that'll stop it, they're a fixed cost. The problem is that it will cost more to provide the necessary support to hold the seats and to create the space to put them.

The curtain idea works well in Bismarck, too.

Paulie
03-19-2008, 03:50 PM
In my opinion building a new arena designed to use a curtain is a terrible idea. Nothing looks more bush league or hacky as some 100 foot curatian hanging on the side or end of a facility. Either build it larger and live with the empty seats or go for a top of the line facility with a smaller capacity and live with the occasional lack of seats. It's impossible to build the perfect facility that will fit both needs.

Gully
03-19-2008, 08:20 PM
This is pretty common. The Twins do it in the Metrodome. The Marlins do it, the A's do it. They do it at Verizon Center in DC for various events. The Spurs did it when they played at the Alamo Dome.

One of the problems is that seats aren't widgets. For most stuff we expect marginal costs to decline as production volume increases while revenue per unit remains relatively fixed. With stadium seating the marginal cost of extra seats increases while at the same time the associated revenues decrease.

Why does the marginal cost of extra seats increase?

HerdBot
03-20-2008, 05:06 AM
In my opinion building a new arena designed to use a curtain is a terrible idea. Nothing looks more bush league or hacky as some 100 foot curatian hanging on the side or end of a facility. Either build it larger and live with the empty seats or go for a top of the line facility with a smaller capacity and live with the occasional lack of seats. It's impossible to build the perfect facility that will fit both needs.

I agree. I want an intimimate rockin' atomosphere where every seat is filled. Not some lame stale environment with a giant curtain.

Besides, if we're selling out every game at 6,000, we would be one of the better mid majors in the country. Supply and demand? Increase the ticket price or put the games on TV.

Expansion? I think we should go slightly bigger but not much. Maybe 6,200 or 6,500. 7,000 tops. How does that rate compared to schools in the MVC? I would assume most teams don't draw better than that.

Hammersmith
03-20-2008, 05:53 AM
Expansion? I think we should go slightly bigger but not much. Maybe 6,200 or 6,500. 7,000 tops. How does that rate compared to schools in the MVC? I would assume most teams don't draw better than that.
Actually, the MVC does really well. Last year, they ranged from 4,328 to 15,909. If the FD Arena is built to 6,011, six out of the ten teams couldn't fit in their average attendances. It would also be the smallest arena behind Drake's and UNI's at 7,000 each. Two schools drew 7-8k, another two drew around 10k, and Creighton drew the 16k. Still, we're quite a ways from numbers like that and even some of the MVC schools are moving towards smaller arenas to insure sellouts and boost season tickets.

SDbison
03-20-2008, 02:06 PM
I agree. I want an intimimate rockin' atomosphere where every seat is filled. Not some lame stale environment with a giant curtain.

Besides, if we're selling out every game at 6,000, we would be one of the better mid majors in the country. Supply and demand? Increase the ticket price or put the games on TV.

Expansion? I think we should go slightly bigger but not much. Maybe 6,200 or 6,500. 7,000 tops. How does that rate compared to schools in the MVC? I would assume most teams don't draw better than that.
I don't think you guys have any idea how the curtain thing would work. It would likely go around at the very top and not be lit up so it wouldn't even be noticed. Yeah lets build it for 6000, why not 5000 or 4000 capacity then it would be sure to sell out. Oh yeah good logic, then they can increase ticket prices, thats a good deal. Just read what you write for once. Great arguments for a smaller arena folks. Might even fly if there at least was a study or scientific rationale for right sizing the facility.

bisonaudit
03-20-2008, 02:37 PM
Why does the marginal cost of extra seats increase?

Because they're higher and farther from the court so the construction costs per chair go up. It's like building a pizza in 3D. A 7 inch pizza is actually twice the size of a 5 inch pizza. With an arena you are getting more chairs per row because the circumference is increasing but it's not enough to offset the added cost of building higher. This coupled with the lower marginal revenue from these poor seats isn't a good recipe for building too big as opposed to too small.

There was just a thing in the Washington Post about this a couple weeks ago w/ the new baseball stadium coming on line. You're going to hear the same thing about the Twins stadium too. Upper decks are getting smaller and premium seats are getting more expensive because these guys are getting smarter about where their margins are.

SDbison
03-20-2008, 04:17 PM
Because they're higher and farther from the court so the construction costs per chair go up. It's like building a pizza in 3D. A 7 inch pizza is actually twice the size of a 5 inch pizza. With an arena you are getting more chairs per row because the diameter is increasing but it's not enough to offset the added cost of building higher. This coupled with the lower marginal revenue from theses poor seats isn't a good recipe for building too big as opposed to too small.

There was just a thing in the Washington Post about this a couple weeks ago w/ the new baseball stadium coming on line. You're going to hear the same thing about the Twins stadium too. Upper decks are getting smaller and premium seats are getting more expensive because these guys are getting smarter about where their margins are.
Maybe the average Joe should just forget about attending or supporting those kind of organizations and let them survive on the rich crowd only? Got to love the GREED in America. Keep the little guys out so the rich bastards can have their moment at the social event. Kind of like the Fargodome is becoming. Maybe they can just build stadiums with suites only to entertain and cater to those with power and money? The rest of us can pay to see it on TV at higher and higher costs as cable and satellite companies repackage everything to make channels of interest so called premium items at extra cost. Funny how these big stadiums are built on the backs of the average taxpayer yet the average person can't afford to attend an event.

bisonaudit
03-20-2008, 08:07 PM
Maybe the average Joe should just forget about attending or supporting those kind of organizations and let them survive on the rich crowd only? Got to love the GREED in America. Keep the little guys out so the rich bastards can have their moment at the social event. Kind of like the Fargodome is becoming. Maybe they can just build stadiums with suites only to entertain and cater to those with power and money? The rest of us can pay to see it on TV at higher and higher costs as cable and satellite companies repackage everything to make channels of interest so called premium items at extra cost. Funny how these big stadiums are built on the backs of the average taxpayer yet the average person can't afford to attend an event.

Well I don't know if I'd go that far. The new baseball stadium in Washington has seats in the last row of the upper deck that are closer to the field than the front row of the upper deck at RFK. Some of them are priced as low as $10 bucks. None of that's happening if Joe Esquire in row A behind homeplate isn't paying $300 for his seat.

I think you'll see a similar thing in Minnesota. Lower bowl infield is going to be expensive, but the upper deck, even deep in the upper deck, will be a better seat than at the Metrodome and competitively priced.

In the long run digital media (TV, internet, radio, etc.) is going to get both better and cheaper. Advertising will make the money, content will be free, just hang in there.

Gully
03-20-2008, 08:11 PM
Because they're higher and farther from the court so the construction costs per chair go up. It's like building a pizza in 3D. A 7 inch pizza is actually twice the size of a 5 inch pizza. With an arena you are getting more chairs per row because the diameter is increasing but it's not enough to offset the added cost of building higher. This coupled with the lower marginal revenue from theses poor seats isn't a good recipe for building too big as opposed to too small.

There was just a thing in the Washington Post about this a couple weeks ago w/ the new baseball stadium coming on line. You're going to hear the same thing about the Twins stadium too. Upper decks are getting smaller and premium seats are getting more expensive because these guys are getting smarter about where their margins are.

Good answer...very interesting. When I first read it I wasn't paying close attention and I thought you were saying the marginal cost of the seats themselves increased with more seats which didn't make much sense to me. Now I see what you're saying.

Gully
03-20-2008, 08:13 PM
Maybe the average Joe should just forget about attending or supporting those kind of organizations and let them survive on the rich crowd only? Got to love the GREED in America. Keep the little guys out so the rich bastards can have their moment at the social event. Kind of like the Fargodome is becoming. Maybe they can just build stadiums with suites only to entertain and cater to those with power and money? The rest of us can pay to see it on TV at higher and higher costs as cable and satellite companies repackage everything to make channels of interest so called premium items at extra cost. Funny how these big stadiums are built on the backs of the average taxpayer yet the average person can't afford to attend an event.

Thanks Joe populist. Maybe you should take some of the time you spend whining and spend it adding value by serving/filling the needs of others. BTW, that's how the evil rich people got rich.

HerdBot
03-21-2008, 06:23 AM
I don't think you guys have any idea how the curtain thing would work. It would likely go around at the very top and not be lit up so it wouldn't even be noticed. Yeah lets build it for 6000, why not 5000 or 4000 capacity then it would be sure to sell out. Oh yeah good logic, then they can increase ticket prices, thats a good deal. Just read what you write for once. Great arguments for a smaller arena folks. Might even fly if there at least was a study or scientific rationale for right sizing the facility.

By that lame argument we might as well put them in the Fargodome and throw up a bunch of curtains to make sure we don't outgrow the stadium. Hell might as well build a retractable roof 50,000 seat stadium since we almost sell out every football game.

I said 6,200 to 7K max. Not 4-5. We will never avearge more than 7,000 fans per game on a regular basis. Not a chance. Did we even crack 3,000? Do we really think a new stadium will more than DOUBLE attendance? If it does than we're sitting in good shape.

SDbison
03-21-2008, 04:18 PM
Thanks Joe populist. Maybe you should take some of the time you spend whining and spend it adding value by serving/filling the needs of others. BTW, that's how the evil rich people got rich.
Oh I forgot, all rich people are saints. Gully if you believe rich people got rich because they are such model citizens, outstanding personalities and God fearing people than maybe your namesake actually is short for gullible. Some combination of hard work, intelligence, business savy, inheriting millions and being in the right place at the right time are components to becoming rich. It doesn't require serving / filling the needs of others (maybe some do, but most don't).
I don't believe I was whining as you try to point out. I was just commenting how some rich professional owners demand cities build huge stadiums at great taxpayer expense, yet somehow there is no room for cheap seats (someone here is actually trying to say the expensive seats subsidize the cheap seats). Now that is funny! If I had my own company would be nice if I could dupe the public into paying for the facility. Next time keep your personal attacks to yourself Gully or PM them to me.

SDbison
03-21-2008, 04:46 PM
By that lame argument we might as well put them in the Fargodome and throw up a bunch of curtains to make sure we don't outgrow the stadium. Hell might as well build a retractable roof 50,000 seat stadium since we almost sell out every football game.

I said 6,200 to 7K max. Not 4-5. We will never avearge more than 7,000 fans per game on a regular basis. Not a chance. Did we even crack 3,000? Do we really think a new stadium will more than DOUBLE attendance? If it does than we're sitting in good shape.
So Gabe, waht are your thoughts on the very good DII teams that drew regular attendance of 5000 to 6000 (average in that same range) during the early 1980's (thats 25 years ago). Was that a fluke? You mean the chance to play in the DII playoffs is bigger than the DI tournament of 64? Basketball faded a bit because Inniger left and so did some of the stars he brought in that were fun to watch. There were about half a dozen coaching changes since then. When NDSU basketball becomes popular again (like now......some excellent players, conference title on the line, a few big schools coming to play in Fargo and possibity of postseason) there is no reason to not believe 5000 to 6000 many years ago will become 7000 to 8000 now. Also, the allure of a new facility where actually every seat is good will bring in many more fans. For the millionth time, I and many others here are not asking for a 10,000 seat arena. But why hog tie a good sized state university to a 6000 seat basketball venue? Maybe 7300 is optimal.....funny thing, there is no analysis to determine what is right sized......just the desires of the Fargodome authority.

SDbison
03-21-2008, 04:56 PM
By that lame argument we might as well put them in the Fargodome and throw up a bunch of curtains to make sure we don't outgrow the stadium. Hell might as well build a retractable roof 50,000 seat stadium since we almost sell out every football game.

I said 6,200 to 7K max. Not 4-5. We will never avearge more than 7,000 fans per game on a regular basis. Not a chance. Did we even crack 3,000? Do we really think a new stadium will more than DOUBLE attendance? If it does than we're sitting in good shape.
OK, going from 6000 to 7500 is not the same percent increase as going from 19,000 to 50,000. Math is obviously not your strong suit. Even if the base of basketball fans is only 3000 now finding 3000 to 4500 more fans because a facility is outstanding and a new DI team is now post season elligble is very much possible. Adding 31,000 more fans to a base of 19,000 football fans in the FM area is a little unrealistic, wouldn't you and most everyone agree?

TransAmBison
03-21-2008, 05:01 PM
OK, going from 6000 to 7500 is not the same percent increase as going from 19,000 to 50,000. Math is obviously not your strong suit. Even if the base of basketball fans is only 3000 now finding 3000 to 4500 more fans because a facility is outstanding and a new DI team is now post season elligble is very much possible. Adding 31,000 more fans to a base of 19,000 football fans in the FM area is a little unrealistic, wouldn't you and most everyone agree?
I was actually thinking a 72,304 seat stadium would be warranted.*





*With the possibility to be expanded, of course
** With retractable roof
***and heated tailgating lots
****add your item to the list here (for the low price of $29.99)
*****But wait, there's more!

SDbison
03-21-2008, 05:03 PM
By that lame argument we might as well put them in the Fargodome and throw up a bunch of curtains to make sure we don't outgrow the stadium. Hell might as well build a retractable roof 50,000 seat stadium since we almost sell out every football game.

I said 6,200 to 7K max. Not 4-5. We will never avearge more than 7,000 fans per game on a regular basis. Not a chance. Did we even crack 3,000? Do we really think a new stadium will more than DOUBLE attendance? If it does than we're sitting in good shape.
Well if the BSA or the new facility have a maximum capacity of 6000 I guess you are going out on a limb there predicting attendance will never go over 7000. Another great use of math skills!
Never say never. If the new arena was built for lets say 8000 capacity, I would say there is better than even odds that one or more years in the next 10 would average over 7000 attendance.
P.S. : Some of my points might be arguable, but I really don't consider them lame. Thanks for the kind words buddy.

HerdBot
03-21-2008, 08:29 PM
OK, going from 6000 to 7500 is not the same percent increase as going from 19,000 to 50,000. Math is obviously not your strong suit. Even if the base of basketball fans is only 3000 now finding 3000 to 4500 more fans because a facility is outstanding and a new DI team is now post season elligble is very much possible. Adding 31,000 more fans to a base of 19,000 football fans in the FM area is a little unrealistic, wouldn't you and most everyone agree?

pardon my grammer im on a cell phone.

your missing my point. if 6k is going to be damn near impossible doing 10k is a fantasy. my football comment was sarcasm.

heres the difference between us. you think we can draw 10000. I dont. now if we drew as well as you say we did 25 years ago than you may have convinced me to go larger. was that for an entire season

Herd
03-21-2008, 09:01 PM
By that lame argument we might as well put them in the Fargodome and throw up a bunch of curtains to make sure we don't outgrow the stadium. Hell might as well build a retractable roof 50,000 seat stadium since we almost sell out every football game.

I said 6,200 to 7K max. Not 4-5. We will never avearge more than 7,000 fans per game on a regular basis. Not a chance. Did we even crack 3,000? Do we really think a new stadium will more than DOUBLE attendance? If it does than we're sitting in good shape.

Yes, a new stadium, combined with a winning program could double attendance from 3000 to 6000. I expect a great deal of momentum behind the Bison's run at an NCAA birth next year. Some early season wins plus and strong showing in conference would be huge next year. Without a new stadium next year, which we will not have, it will be much harder to grow attendance.

SDbison
03-21-2008, 09:36 PM
pardon my grammer im on a cell phone.

your missing my point. if 6k is going to be damn near impossible doing 10k is a fantasy. my football comment was sarcasm.

heres the difference between us. you think we can draw 10000. I dont. now if we drew as well as you say we did 25 years ago than you may have convinced me to go larger. was that for an entire season

I never said 10,000. In fact one of my recent posts made it clear that that is not being asked for or even desired. Like I said maybe 7300 is possible for a relatively small jump in cost before major changes would have to be made in the structure. As for the average per game back in the early 1980's, someone posted the average attendance per game for the last 30 years or so earlier in this thread. Yes, attendance was huge back then. I was there for many of those games and you had to arrive during the womens game to get, or be able to move to a better seat. There needs to be some room for growth in the new arena.

HerdBot
03-21-2008, 10:41 PM
I never said 10,000. In fact one of my recent posts made it clear that that is not being asked for or even desired. Like I said maybe 7300 is possible for a relatively small jump in cost before major changes would have to be made in the structure. As for the average per game back in the early 1980's, someone posted the average attendance per game for the last 30 years or so earlier in this thread. Yes, attendance was huge back then. I was there for many of those games and you had to arrive during the womens game to get, or be able to move to a better seat. There needs to be some room for growth in the new arena.

you said 7300 and I said 7000 max so we agree

Gully
03-22-2008, 01:33 PM
Oh I forgot, all rich people are saints. Gully if you believe rich people got rich because they are such model citizens, outstanding personalities and God fearing people than maybe your namesake actually is short for gullible. Some combination of hard work, intelligence, business savy, inheriting millions and being in the right place at the right time are components to becoming rich. It doesn't require serving / filling the needs of others (maybe some do, but most don't).
I don't believe I was whining as you try to point out. I was just commenting how some rich professional owners demand cities build huge stadiums at great taxpayer expense, yet somehow there is no room for cheap seats (someone here is actually trying to say the expensive seats subsidize the cheap seats). Now that is funny! If I had my own company would be nice if I could dupe the public into paying for the facility. Next time keep your personal attacks to yourself Gully or PM them to me.

I think it was you that was attacking rich people. I just voiced my opinion that you're wrong. It annoys me that a lot of people think that everyone who has something good got it from screwing someone else. I don't believe that's how the world typically works.

Most American millionaires are first generation rich. True, there are many who inherited their wealth as well, but where did that come from? It came from others who created value and earned money. It was their earned choice to pass money on to their heirs. So I don't agree with you that "maybe some do, but most don't" earn their money by serving others. I would say that most do, but some don't.

sambini
03-23-2008, 04:46 AM
Lets just hope Mayor Walaker and commission can get this thing going. It needs to be done. As a Fargo tax payer I say build and do it right.

Bison bison
03-24-2008, 04:29 PM
you don't get rich by writing checks!

Ferd
03-24-2008, 09:55 PM
Isn't the report on the new BB arena supposed to come out at the end of the month?

It's near the end of the month!

:hungry: :hungry: :hungry: :hungry: :hungry: :hungry:

SDbison
03-25-2008, 06:23 PM
Isn't the report on the new BB arena supposed to come out at the end of the month?

It's near the end of the month!

:hungry: :hungry: :hungry: :hungry: :hungry: :hungry:

all I hear is cricket chirping...........................

Hammersmith
03-25-2008, 11:07 PM
all I hear is cricket chirping...........................
I think the question is, "When is the next Dome Authority meeting?" Last night was the City Commission meeting. Do the meetings switch off weeks? Also, it's possible they may wait to accept the reports until after the two new members take office on April 1st. Erv's and Keith Bjerke's terms are expiring, and Bruce Frantz and Troy Goergen are taking over for them. Maybe they'll wait until after the transition? Only a guess.

Bisonguy
03-28-2008, 12:19 AM
Something coming up on the DAY 10:00 news about this......

Go_Herd
03-28-2008, 03:08 AM
Something coming up on the DAY 10:00 news about this......


From WDAY:
(not too much information)

Survey Says:
Should make $150,000 a year.

Should make more money with NDSU taking up some space in the building

Dome reviewing the plans, then meeting back in April

Bisonguy
03-28-2008, 03:08 AM
Market assessment is completed, will be reviewed, and the committee will meet again in April and decide what to do next.......

BisBison
03-28-2008, 03:21 AM
Study, study, study. Let's Get Er Done Already!!!

SDbison
03-28-2008, 04:13 AM
Study, study, study. Let's Get Er Done Already!!!
Have to love government in action (ha). Lets get some info and meet a month later to assign a committee to look into the possibility. It is amazing anything gets done!

Greenie
03-28-2008, 04:16 AM
All the studying is a necessary evil

NDSU and the Dome need all their ducks in a row (finances, city's need for this facility, impact on the community's finances) to make a sound case to get this thing approved.

NDSU NEEDS this building to be a major player in DI athletics

Hammersmith
03-28-2008, 05:09 AM
All the studying is a necessary evil

NDSU and the Dome need all their ducks in a row (finances, city's need for this facility, impact on the community's finances) to make a sound case to get this thing approved.

NDSU NEEDS this building to be a major player in DI athletics

Yep. Mike Williams is going to make it his personal crusade to stop this project, so the pro-arena forces need to have a ready answer for any argument he and his people come up with. A month or two of extra time now could spell the difference between success and failure. It's frustrating, but construction won't begin before next spring regardless if final approval comes tomorrow or in June. Be patient.

99Bison
03-28-2008, 05:45 AM
"Addition not likely to yield gain, loss
The Fargodome would more or less break even on an addition that would host college basketball games and fill a gap in the local concert market, a consultant said Thursday. "

http://www.in-forum.com/articles/index.cfm?id=196243&section=news

Isn't this exactly what you want out of new public arena? Break even on itself in order to generate all the surrounding wave of revenue.

According to this article, that's a net gain of 76 events! wow. That's a lot of revenue for the surrounding community.

tony
03-28-2008, 12:47 PM
Keeping my fingers crossed.

DORMIE
03-28-2008, 07:04 PM
Whether it breaks even or hopefully with our economy it will be as successful as the DOME has in the past, the one thing to consider is, what if we don't build it? How will we compete in the market with just the Civic and the DOME? You have to consider the Ralph, Alerus and don't rule out the Urben Plains for future venues. I feel that the DOME authority will consider all of this and make the decision to build. Williams seems to be tied up in energy and garbage. Hopefully he can stay there.

tjbison
03-28-2008, 11:20 PM
Break even or $100,000 surplus, umm sounds to me like a win win Stiuation???








BUILD THE DAMN THING!!!!

Tatanka
03-29-2008, 12:31 AM
Plusfreakingplus

sambini
03-30-2008, 08:40 AM
All the studying is a necessary evil

NDSU and the Dome need all their ducks in a row (finances, city's need for this facility, impact on the community's finances) to make a sound case to get this thing approved.

NDSU NEEDS this building to be a major player in DI athletics

You are right Greenie++++++++++

SDbison
03-30-2008, 02:43 PM
All the studying is a necessary evil

NDSU and the Dome need all their ducks in a row (finances, city's need for this facility, impact on the community's finances) to make a sound case to get this thing approved.

NDSU NEEDS this building to be a major player in DI athletics

Need to also look at proper sizing for the future as part of the study......
With the small venue / basketball addition to the dome the Bison are again being "used" by the promoters / Fargodome authority. Their only interest is to build a small concert venue that is right sized for them, not Bison basketball. Somebody please say I am wrong and show me the analysis that was done to determine that a 6000 seat arena is ideal for DI NDSU basketball now, and 20 years from now. Yes, NDSU needs a new basketball facility, and no, I do not think it needs to built anywhere close to 10,000 capacity. Maybe right sized is 6800, 7200 or 7900? In my opinion, to build it for 6000 is shortsighted and this will be proven much sooner than it took for football.

roadwarrior
03-30-2008, 03:14 PM
I dont see how NDSU is being 'used' in this project. All it would take is NDSU to say 'NO' and that would be the death of the project. The proposed remodeling of the BSA would have no more seats than the dome addition. I'm waiting to hear how we would pay for a 10,000 seat arena. Any thoughts from those that want one that big?

BisBison
03-30-2008, 03:22 PM
I dont see how NDSU is being 'used' in this project. All it would take is NDSU to say 'NO' and that would be the death of the project. The proposed remodeling of the BSA would have no more seats than the dome addition. I'm waiting to hear how we would pay for a 10,000 seat arena. Any thoughts from those that want one that big?

I'm just as interested in how we would FILL a 10,000 seat arena. Keep in mind folks the FFD addition is 6,000, expandable to 8,000 just fine INMHO

tjbison
03-30-2008, 03:34 PM
I'm just as interested in how we would FILL a 10,000 seat arena. Keep in mind folks the FFD addition is 6,000, expandable to 8,000 just fine INMHO


Are we sure yet that its expandable?? If it is GREAT, but I haven't heard either way LINK anybody?

EITHER WAY BUILD IT!

SDbison
03-30-2008, 04:25 PM
I'm just as interested in how we would FILL a 10,000 seat arena. Keep in mind folks the FFD addition is 6,000, expandable to 8,000 just fine INMHO
Both Road and BisBis, I think I made it clear I DON'T THINK the addition has to be ANYWHERE CLOSE TO 10,000 CAPACITY. Where do you get the 10K figure from. And please give me an example of any growing city, college, etc. that builds a new facility the same, if not smaller, than the current one? Bisbis, the expandability feature is not a sure thing, and I don't believe when it was mentioned it was anywhere near 2000 more seats. Again I know a new facility is urgently needed, but if 7200 was a more appropriate number for the next 20 or 30 years the cost to build it that size now would be much more economical. So for the fifthieth time, where did the 6000 number come from that decided it is the right size for NDSU basketball for the next 20 or 30 years?

roadwarrior
03-30-2008, 04:42 PM
I am guessing that the 6,000 seat number was arrived at by discussions involving city leaders, dome authority members, NDSU officials, and the architects designing the arena. I don't know for sure since I did not attend any of those meetings. If you think the city or the dome came up with that number on their own without the involvement of NDSU is incorrect.

roadwarrior
03-30-2008, 04:48 PM
As i stated before, this arena is an opportunity that is being proposed by the city and the dome. It may not be the ultimate option for 20-30 years down the road. NDSU could easily turn down the offer and try to do something on its own. Short term that would mean pouring $$$ into the BSA to make it more fan friendly. Long term it would mean trying to raise $40+ million to build a larger arena. That may in itself take 20 years.

This is the best option for NDSU at this time. The current basketball facilities including locker rooms and practice floors are a joke. The BSA court itself is not that bad, but seating, concessions, and traffic movement within the arena is a mess. We need to make a move forward NOW to help build both the men's and women's basketball programs to be a Summit League contender. A brand new 6,000 seat arena will do that.

lakesbison
03-30-2008, 04:54 PM
i am just truly amazed that in this Fargo Moorhead area with ALL THE BASKETBALL FANS, (100,000 plus people) that attendence is so putrid.

it makes me sick.

however, being at uw-green bay & Frost Arena in brookings, if we put those 2 arenas in fargo, its sold out at 6500 every game.

the "common, casual fan" is a sucker for new stadiums, new restaurants, etc, what is wrong with this area????

roadwarrior
03-30-2008, 05:00 PM
Hard to believe, but sometimes ice fishing comes before basketball.;)

Gully
03-30-2008, 05:27 PM
As i stated before, this arena is an opportunity that is being proposed by the city and the dome. It may not be the ultimate option for 20-30 years down the road. NDSU could easily turn down the offer and try to do something on its own. Short term that would mean pouring $$$ into the BSA to make it more fan friendly. Long term it would mean trying to raise $40+ million to build a larger arena. That may in itself take 20 years.

This is the best option for NDSU at this time. The current basketball facilities including locker rooms and practice floors are a joke. The BSA court itself is not that bad, but seating, concessions, and traffic movement within the arena is a mess. We need to make a move forward NOW to help build both the men's and women's basketball programs to be a Summit League contender. A brand new 6,000 seat arena will do that.

There are concessions as the BSA?:D :D

bisonaudit
03-30-2008, 05:47 PM
Both Road and BisBis, I think I made it clear I DON'T THINK the addition has to be ANYWHERE CLOSE TO 10,000 CAPACITY. Where do you get the 10K figure from. And please give me an example of any growing city, college, etc. that builds a new facility the same, if not smaller, than the current one?

San Antonio Spurs
Memphis Grizzlies
New Jersey Devils
Cleveland Browns
Denver Broncos
Oakland Raiders
Minnesota Twins
New York Yankees
New York Mets
Washington Nationals
Atlanta Braves
Philadelphia Phillies
San Francisco Giants
Cincinnati Reds
Houston Astros
Milwaukee Brewers
Pittsburgh Pirates
St. Louis Cardinals
San Diego Padres
Cleveland Indians
Detroit Tigers
Seattle Mariners

SDbison
03-30-2008, 06:57 PM
San Antonio Spurs
Memphis Grizzlies
New Jersey Devils
Cleveland Browns
Denver Broncos
Oakland Raiders
Minnesota Twins
New York Yankees
New York Mets
Washington Nationals
Atlanta Braves
Philadelphia Phillies
San Francisco Giants
Cincinnati Reds
Houston Astros
Milwaukee Brewers
Pittsburgh Pirates
St. Louis Cardinals
San Diego Padres
Cleveland Indians
Detroit Tigers
Seattle Mariners
Somehow I knew someone would quote professional sports where huge 60K to 80K impractical venues were shrunk down to make them more cozy (remove bleacher seating for individual chairs and suites). I did try to put a smaller sized facility, smaller metro area caveat, in my original post but thought it confused things and I removed it. So go look for some smaller successful colleges and semi-pro organizations that during a growth period chose to, for example, go from a 9500 seat facility to a newer 8500 seat facility. Good luck if you can find a couple that meet this criteria............

bisonaudit
03-30-2008, 07:31 PM
Somehow I knew someone would quote professional sports where huge 60K to 80K impractical venues were shrunk down to make them more cozy (remove bleacher seating for individual chairs and suites). I did try to put a smaller sized facility, smaller metro area caveat, in my original post but thought it confused things and I removed it. So go look for some smaller successful colleges and semi-pro organizations that during a growth period chose to, for example, go from a 9500 seat facility to a newer 8500 seat facility. Good luck if you can find a couple that meet this criteria............

I take your point but only up to a point. After all aren't we also talking about moving from an impractical venue with bleacher seating into one with more modern amenities for both the team and the fans?

A ton of the baseball ones mentioned were moves from multipurpose to baseball only facilities which is a bit of a stretch but the Spurs were always the primary tenant of the AlamoDome and it was built knowing that they'd be a primary tenant though it is a multipurpose facility (so's the BSA). The Broncos moved from a very good football stadium at Mile High to a newer and smaller one. Ditto the Devils.

And how about the Yankees. They fill one of the largest buildings in the league on a regular basis and what are they doing? Replacing their existing baseball only facility with a newer smaller baseball only facility.

I knew where to get the data on the pro stadiums and think it supports the arguement. The market has changed/is changing. It's not about more seats its about more revenue per seat.

Hansel
03-31-2008, 01:02 AM
UNI moved from the UNI-Dome to a smaller arena

Gonzaga's new arena while larger only seats 6k in Spokane- a market size slightly larger than FM

SDbison
03-31-2008, 03:35 AM
UNI moved from the UNI-Dome to a smaller arena

Gonzaga's new arena while larger only seats 6k in Spokane- a market size slightly larger than FM
That doesn't count.......that would be like NDSU moving from the Fargodome to the smaller venue......nic try...............

roadwarrior
03-31-2008, 04:04 AM
Hmmm....Hansel gives a couple of examples....and then they don't count?

HerdBot
03-31-2008, 04:30 AM
Somehow I knew someone would quote professional sports where huge 60K to 80K impractical venues were shrunk down to make them more cozy (remove bleacher seating for individual chairs and suites). I did try to put a smaller sized facility, smaller metro area caveat, in my original post but thought it confused things and I removed it. So go look for some smaller successful colleges and semi-pro organizations that during a growth period chose to, for example, go from a 9500 seat facility to a newer 8500 seat facility. Good luck if you can find a couple that meet this criteria............

How many times have they sold out over the years? (not counting playoffs) I think there is a reason we reduced the capacity from 8,000 to 6,000. I'm for 7,000 max so we generally agree.

I don't think bigger is necessarily better and I don't know if that is your point... but is the metrodome better than the new Twins stadium? Gopher stadium? I say quality over quantity. Are stadiums the size of NDSU going smaller in different markets? I don't want to do the research but I would imagine it's happened before.

bisonmike2
04-02-2008, 02:33 PM
I just know we are going to see a huge backlash against the arena if the committee comes out in favor of the addition. I think they could pitch it as a job creation project. This arena will take a couple of years to comeplete and would employ hundreds of people in the FM community. They could spin the addition as a community investment that will create jobs in an uncertain economy. I'm just trying to get out in front of this thing b/c we know the anti-arena folk will be highly motivated to get this thing shot down.

DORMIE
04-02-2008, 09:45 PM
It has to be sold on the economic development positives if it is built in that we do not have a sized venue between the Civic and the DOME. There are some in the area and we will lose a ton of of money if we can't compete.

missingnumber7
04-05-2008, 05:22 PM
They can sell it as a better venue to hold district tourneys and regional tourney's. How about hosting exhibition Twolves games. There are plenty of sports related opportunities for the arena alone. Let alone a better small concert setting. The problem that I see from the media presentation, is I have only seen it presented as a basketball arena. There are lots of other reasons to use a smaller arena.

tjbison
04-05-2008, 05:25 PM
They can sell it as a better venue to hold district tourneys and regional tourney's. How about hosting exhibition Twolves games. There are plenty of sports related opportunities for the arena alone. Let alone a better small concert setting. The problem that I see from the media presentation, is I have only seen it presented as a basketball arena. There are lots of other reasons to use a smaller arena.


I think when the final push comes to sell it to the public, they will showcase all the events that can be held in it!

missingnumber7
04-08-2008, 04:32 PM
I think when the final push comes to sell it to the public, they will showcase all the events that can be held in it!

I hope so, all you hear now is NDSU basketball arena. I think that draws the public ire more than anything. There is lots of potential for a decent arena, in a good location with decent parking and easy access, unlike the civic.

TheBisonator
04-08-2008, 07:58 PM
I hope so, all you hear now is NDSU basketball arena. I think that draws the public ire more than anything. There is lots of potential for a decent arena, in a good location with decent parking and easy access, unlike the civic.

But hopefully with signs and indicators (like green/yellow seats) that it is the NDSU basketball arena.

I don't want another generic blue and red seated slab like the Fargodome before the renovations.

After all, NDSU is footing 1/2 the bill.

bisonaudit
04-08-2008, 09:05 PM
But hopefully with signs and indicators (like green/yellow seats) that it is the NDSU basketball arena.

I don't want another generic blue and red seated slab like the Fargodome before the renovations.

After all, NDSU is footing 1/2 the bill.

And NDSU is leasing them the land for $1.

Ferd
04-08-2008, 10:23 PM
I hope so, all you hear now is NDSU basketball arena. I think that draws the public ire more than anything. There is lots of potential for a decent arena, in a good location with decent parking and easy access, unlike the civic.

I don't understand the "anti NDSU" mentality in Fargo. :banghead: I've lived here for the last 17 years in addition to my 5 years of school. I hear it all the time... "Why should we do something for NDSU?"

NDSU is the second largest employer in the city. Each student brings many thousands of new dollars into the community.

What kind of incentives do we offer new companies to relocate here??

No taxes for 5 years, low interest loans... $millions$

Why not support existing enterprises, as well??? :confused:

:ranting: :ranting: :ranting: :ranting:

Sorry. It just baffles me.

Go_Herd
04-08-2008, 10:40 PM
I don't understand the "anti NDSU" mentality in Fargo. :banghead: I've lived here for the last 17 years in addition to my 5 years of school. I hear it all the time... "Why should we do something for NDSU?"

NDSU is the second largest employer in the city. Each student brings many thousands of new dollars into the community.

What kind of incentives do we offer new companies to relocate here??

No taxes for 5 years, low interest loans... $millions$

Why not support existing enterprises, as well??? :confused:

:ranting: :ranting: :ranting: :ranting:

Sorry. It just baffles me.


AMEN. I don't get it either. Where would 19th ave. N be with all those jobs if NDSU didn't exists

TheBisonator
04-08-2008, 11:02 PM
I don't understand the "anti NDSU" mentality in Fargo. :banghead: I've lived here for the last 17 years in addition to my 5 years of school. I hear it all the time... "Why should we do something for NDSU?"

NDSU is the second largest employer in the city. Each student brings many thousands of new dollars into the community.

What kind of incentives do we offer new companies to relocate here??

No taxes for 5 years, low interest loans... $millions$

Why not support existing enterprises, as well??? :confused:

:ranting: :ranting: :ranting: :ranting:

Sorry. It just baffles me.

We bend over our backs to suck Wal-Mart's d*** in the F-M area and build them new roads for their new supercentres, give them zero taxes, pay for their infrastructure, etc, and yet with NDSU employing 5 times as many people as Wal-Mart in this city, we hear a lot of crap that you talk about towards NDSU.

Why not that much animosity towards Wal-Mart or Lexstar Development or Microsoft or Innovis Health?? I know that without the 25,000 or so college students in this city and the 10,000 or so people the campuses employ, F-M would be a very different place. And I don't mean a better place.

NDSUstudent
04-09-2008, 07:02 AM
Interesting development.....

Downtown destination could turn into City Hall office space
Andrea Domaskin, The Forum

The Fargodome could see a financial boost if the city found another use for the Civic Center, a market analysis suggests.

The analysis examines the impact of a proposed addition to the dome. It also includes a list of potential revenue enhancements to the dome.

Among them: If Fargo repurposes all or part of the downtown Civic Center, some Civic events could be shifted to the dome complex.

The scenario might not be all that farfetched.

City Hall – which is attached to the Civic Center – is old and bursting at the seams, according to city officials.

Architects are studying whether it’s possible to turn part of the Civic into more space for city business.

The 50-year-old City Hall needs a new roof and a new heating system, City Administrator Pat Zavoral said. Some departments, such as the assessor’s office, have moved into private buildings because there isn’t enough space at City Hall......

http://www.in-forum.com/articles/index.cfm?id=197430&section=news

roper1313
04-09-2008, 04:02 PM
THis is my favorite line in the article:

"If the Dome Authority recommends approval of the addition, the City Commission will likely give it, City Commissioner Brad Wimmer predicts."

tjbison
04-09-2008, 05:36 PM
Lets see, More space for the city offices, money study showed $0-100,000 profit (no projected losses), so I figure the addition is ideal, new arena to replace the civic and attract many more shows than the civic ever could, solve a need for space issue with the city offices, all leans toward a BIG YES vote to me!!!!

HerdBot
04-11-2008, 02:09 PM
Lets see, More space for the city offices, money study showed $0-100,000 profit (no projected losses), so I figure the addition is ideal, new arena to replace the civic and attract many more shows than the civic ever could, solve a need for space issue with the city offices, all leans toward a BIG YES vote to me!!!!

Stadiums are not supposed to show a profit and are expected to break even. This one will actually profit and that's an added bonus.

Bison101
04-25-2008, 12:38 AM
Stadiums are not supposed to show a profit and are expected to break even. This one will actually profit and that's an added bonus.


Nice.+++++++++++++++++++++++

HerdBot
04-26-2008, 01:53 AM
However, these are also figures from the worst attendance period in the last 30 years. One of transitional purgatory, no/new conference or whatever reason one would like.

If you look at it overall, throw out some high and lows with 1-2k on top of that you are about between 5k and sold out+ at 6k the majority of the time.

http://www.arucaelectronics.com/hostedpics/ndsubbattendance.jpg

We averaged 6,000 fans back in 1982 so I agree with SD Bison. I didn't realize we used to be "a big deal" in baskeball. With the chance at going to the big dance we are no where near our full potential.

Bison101
04-26-2008, 02:13 AM
We averaged 6,000 fans back in 1982 so I agree with SD Bison. I didn't realize we used to be "a big deal" in baskeball. With the chance at going to the big dance we are no where near our full potential.


Yeah, and I think our full potential means getting rid of the wooden bleachers. :D

d3boys
04-26-2008, 03:52 AM
We averaged 6,000 fans back in 1982 so I agree with SD Bison. I didn't realize we used to be "a big deal" in baskeball. With the chance at going to the big dance we are no where near our full potential.

those were fun days and I cant wait til we get back to that
we will very soon

cbline
04-26-2008, 01:26 PM
I was a member of the rag-tag "Home Court Advantage" pep band at the basketball games from 1980 to 1984. I was far from being a serious musician, but man that was a good time at those games. Who remembers the dead jackrabbit being thrown from the crowd? What a thing of beauty that was!! That great atmosphere can, and should, be replicated now.

d3boys
04-26-2008, 05:05 PM
who can forget jeff askew's famous line on the radio postgame interview
here we come jackrabbits, jackrabbits, jackrabbits

Trim
04-27-2008, 03:12 AM
Those were great times. I was very young and impressionable. Askew was like a Harlem Globetrotter. I had him for a coach at the Erv Inniger Basketball camp and I was rebounding for him one day. He hit 34 straight from the top of the key. It was a thrill. Dennis Majeski giving us an inspirational speech in one of the film rooms. Lance Berwald was something else too, of course. It seems like I remember all those games being packed. But 6000 average seems like a stretch. I don't know though, just guessing. I also remember the tartan floor with the cool "old" Bison logo on the floor and the hoops that were attached to the ceiling. Wasn't the paint also red?

Anyway, it's definitely time for a new arena. I really hope it happens.

Trim
04-29-2008, 03:38 PM
Update in the Forum today. Dome wants the financials worked out before giving the go ahead. Apparently they have a meeting tonight, at which a decision will not be made.

Hammersmith
04-29-2008, 05:34 PM
Boy, they want EVERYTHING worked out. Probably a smart idea though. I wonder if they want to delay long enough to see how the June election will turn out? Still, I like that the relationship between the city and the university will be more of a partnership than the owner/tenant Fargodome relationship. Better chance for green seats?

article: Fargo wants plan set (http://www.in-forum.com/News/articles/199544)

Bison bison
04-29-2008, 05:54 PM
this is all stupid.

they should have started building it two years ago. as problems arouse they could have just gone around to various public agencies for financing...........................

:p

Greenie
04-29-2008, 05:55 PM
The plan is to have all the following in place before it goes to the Fargodome Authority, and then to the City Commission for final approval. Every possible question needs to have an answer before it goes to the City Commission. Otherwise, you know who, will have all kinds of attempts to submarine the addition.

1. Financing Plan
2. Operating Agreement between the City of Fargo and NDSU
3. Building Plans (done)
4. Market Assessment (done)
5. Legal opinion regarding the use of excess Fargodome sales-tax funds (done)

Tatanka
05-07-2008, 11:34 PM
WDAY Steve Hallstrom reports that Gene is reeling in a major donor for naming rights for the new arena. GT hopes to get $13M...:hungry:

Wouldn't specify who, but did say it's a owner of a business with local interests.

Hmmmmmm...... now who could that be exactly?:hide:

RedRiver
05-08-2008, 12:01 AM
It was also reported that NDSU will make a presentation to this individual within the next two months after Gene Taylor seeks advice from a consultant on naming rights. Sounds like a positive development.

SUBISON247
05-08-2008, 12:25 AM
13 million well that narrows it down a little. It depends how local they are talking.

Scheels-already a big supporter
Microsoft/Burgum see above
Stop and Go again see above
Bobcat?? but Bobcat arena would be a stupid name
RDO??right colors

I guess there could be numerous others any other insider info??

Hammersmith
05-08-2008, 12:38 AM
I very much doubt Bobcat. They've been having money problems. Hiring freezes, budget cuts, etc.

Target?

I'm betting it's Scheels or Microsoft. Maybe Elig from Stop-N-Go, but I don't know if he has enough money easily available to do this.

If the arena ends up named after a person rather than a business, I'm hoping it's Burgum. There aren't many names that have as much history at NDSU than the Burgums.

bisonranch
05-08-2008, 12:44 AM
Bobcat?? but Bobcat arena would be a stupid name


Hammersmith is right...not gonna happen. 2008 is going to be a tough year for a lot of companies. It would likely be someone not effected by housing markets, energy costs, or material prices.

Bisonguy
05-08-2008, 01:40 AM
Pizza Corner Arena!

MN_BISON
05-08-2008, 03:09 AM
How about Gary Tharaldson?

imabison
05-08-2008, 03:50 AM
13 million well that narrows it down a little. It depends how local they are talking.

Scheels-already a big supporter
Microsoft/Burgum see above
Stop and Go again see above
Bobcat?? but Bobcat arena would be a stupid name
RDO??right colors

I guess there could be numerous others any other insider info??
Last winter I was told that it would not be Scheels by someone that should know.

Stop N Go. NDSU did just rent the retail space in the Stop N Go Center on 19th and University.

Burgum, does he OWN the business, with local interest. Perhaps one of his other holdings, more than Microsoft name.

RDO? Not sure.

Bobcat is now owned by a Korean company, probably not.